DIY_EFI Digest Saturday, 16 January 1999 Volume 04 : Number 036 In this issue: 555 EFI Re: 555 EFI Re: Programmable ECU's (Was GM TPI tips for a newbie) Re: Programmable ECU's (Was GM TPI tips for a newbie) No welding needed for O2 sensor mounting Re: O2 bung brazing/welding? Re: EFI system plans - ZIP Error flag ECU6 development help Re: Programmable ECU's Re: Programmable ECU's Ignition coil inductance? Re: Programmable ECU's Re: ECU6 development help Haltech E6GM Re: ECU6 EFI system construction Re: Haltech E6GM Re: Haltech E6GM Re: Programmable ECU's (Was GM TPI tips for a newbie) Re: Programmable ECU's (Was GM TPI tips for a newbie) Re: Haltech E6GM Re: Haltech E6GM Re: Programmable ECU's (Was GM TPI tips for a newbie) Re: 555 EFI Re: Haltech E6GM Re: Haltech E6GM Re: Haltech E6GM Low Pressure Transducers Re: Haltech E6GM Re: Haltech E6GM Re: Uploaded BIN to FTP Re: 555 EFI Re: Ignition coil inductance? Re: 555 EFI Re: 555 EFI See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:27:47 -0500 Subject: 555 EFI I've been thinking about a simple EFI using a string of 555s. Just like the "Normal" math would be, ie first 555, base pulse, second Coolant temp correction, third MAP, and so on for like 6+ 555 all in series. Trouble is this gets me, an addition of correction factors, instead of multipling them, is this a major problem?. I realize this ain't gonna be as good as a oem, ecm, but would like to get fairly close. I'm looking to keep this as much as an entry level thing, meaning nothing but 555s, op-amps, and a final drive. On a related note, does anyone know if the gm ecms use a standard "pinout" for the resistors in the netres?. Is the netres only for full limp home mode, meaning it goes to fixed timing?. Any thoughts appreciated. Cheers Bruce ------------------------------ From: AL8001@xxx.com Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:44:38 EST Subject: Re: 555 EFI In a message dated 99-01-15 09:33:21 EST, nacelp@xxx.net writes: > I'm looking to keep this as much as an entry level thing, meaning >nothing but 555s, op-amps, and a final drive. Something like this would be great for testing junk yard engines or moveing a car that's a "work in progress" when the ECM and related parts are gone. Harold ------------------------------ From: "Charles Brooks" Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:33:28 EDT Subject: Re: Programmable ECU's (Was GM TPI tips for a newbie) >>I am using GEMS EM20. It is very good. They are at http://www.gems.co.uk << Can you tell me a little about your application? I noticed that Haltech has a replacement for some of the Delco puters. They call it the "E6GM". I printed out the info sheet from the Haltech page, but they didn't have any specs, or a list of ECU's that it could replace. Does anyone have any info on this option? Charles ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:18:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Programmable ECU's (Was GM TPI tips for a newbie) - -----Original Message----- From: Charles Brooks To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 11:06 AM Subject: Re: Programmable ECU's (Was GM TPI tips for a newbie) >>>I am using GEMS EM20. It is very good. They are at >http://www.gems.co.uk << > > >Can you tell me a little about your application? > >I noticed that Haltech has a replacement for some of the >Delco puters. They call it the "E6GM". I printed out the >info sheet from the Haltech page, but they didn't have any >specs, or a list of ECU's that it could replace. Does anyone >have any info on this option? With a repin does about any map delco appllication, looks to be an exact 808 Plug+Play, would make sense since they are in Australia. Options for leading/trailing edge for ignition injector firing figured by cyl number divide by, 22 entries per level for fuel, 1-2-3 bar, and full time bar. Remote programming by laptop. If you find their site (in archives lacking any leads) it shows all the tables/switches/options in demo download. Full time baro is optional. Bruce > >Charles > ------------------------------ From: Al Lipper Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:53:04 -0800 Subject: No welding needed for O2 sensor mounting As part of the ECU6 project, we needed to develop a way for the average backyard mechanic to securely mount the EGO (Exhaust Gas Oxygen) sensor to an exhaust pipe without welding. The result was the development of a remarkable clamp-on bracket that has been working flawlessly for over a year on the test vehicle. I will try to post a picture and/or plans to the ECU6 project page (http://members.aol.com/ALIPPER/ ) within the next couple of weeks. Naturally, you do need to drill a hole in the exhaust pipe, and making the mounting clamp requires some metal work, but it's the sort of things someone with a metal shop can make a couple of in under an hour. Al Al Lipper efi@xxx.org ------------------------------ From: pjb@xxx.com (Pete Boggini) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:06:12 -0800 Subject: Re: O2 bung brazing/welding? Raymond C Drouillard said: > >You can get the bungs designed specifically for the sensors (they're >actually fairly thick) from Ramchargers (and probablly lots of other >speed shops), Summit Racing http://www.summitracing.com and from Holley. > If you buy the Pro-Jection kit, the bung comes with it. > I'd recommend against the K/N O2 bungs. I bought two, drove my Mustang to the muffler shop and asked him to weld them in. He used a torch to burn the hole, then arc welded them in. He had a bear of a time with them. At first he thought there was a coating on my headers, but I told him they were nothing special. Then, when he tried to get the O2 that use used to locate them out, it was very tough to get out. He got the first one set up and working (by using a tap), then he pulled a Perfection one off his shelf. It went in with no troubles. He figured it was inferior metal used on the K/N unit, but they both cost about $10.00. So, I'd recommend you just hit the muffler shop and ask them to weld them in and get them from the same shop, or get the same brand they use. Perfection should be sold by most parts stores. peterb - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Boggini Systems Administrator/Corporate Operations E-mail: pjb@xxx.com Phone: (650)933-6858 - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Al Lipper Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:33:23 -0800 Subject: Re: EFI system plans - ZIP Error flag I just tried the download/unzip myself, and it seemed to work okay. It could be that AOL was having server problems. No matter, it's fixed now. Al At 10:55 PM 1/13/99 -0500, you wrote: >Al, > >Just downloaded the zip file (http://members.aol.com/ALIPPER/Ecu6.zip), and >when I tried to unpack got an error (went into DOS and used zipfix, but >came up with checksum error). Also tried 2 different zip progs (WinZip 7.O >and Archivist). Did try a second download just in case - same problem. >Will try from the office tomorrow just in case its ISP related (unlikely). > >Have you tried a download/unpack lately? I am just wondering whether AOL >has mangled your files .... > >Cheers, > >Tony > > > > ------------------------------ From: Al Lipper Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:36:55 -0800 Subject: ECU6 development help Bob, great to hear you're interested. I'll put you down as a hardware design person, if that sounds good to you? Al Al Lipper efi@xxx.org At 07:59 PM 1/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >I'm interested in your injection system > >It seems you desire to perhaps make this a commercial product, such as a >build it yourself, or kit form. > >I have an electronics/process control background plus I'm working on a 2.3 >l Turbo EFI Ford (37 lb boost, Esslinger head, bla bla) not trying to give... ------------------------------ From: Charles Brooks Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:29:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Programmable ECU's Bruce, thanks for the info. This seems to be the cheapest way to go as far as fully programmable systems go. For 695 you get the computer and the software. It looks like most of the other Mfr.'s (ACCELL comes to mind) sell the ECU and the S/W separately. I guess the next question is how much more detail is available in something like the ACCELL DFI system? If I decided to go with this OEM replacement, would I end up buying the DFI 6 months down the road? I guess that's more of a rhetorical question :) Charles Bruce Plecan wrote: > > With a repin does about any map delco appllication, looks to be > an exact 808 Plug+Play, would make sense since they are in > Australia. Options for leading/trailing edge for ignition injector > firing figured by cyl number divide by, 22 entries per level for > fuel, 1-2-3 bar, and full time bar. Remote programming by laptop. > If you find their site (in archives lacking any leads) it shows all > the tables/switches/options in demo download. Full time baro > is optional. ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:24:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Programmable ECU's - -----Original Message----- From: Charles Brooks To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 2:46 PM Subject: Re: Programmable ECU's It's probably over but call Rob at Force Fuel, Force EFI, in Miami FL, there was just a group by for the 3rd Gen F-Bodies, where they were $550. Some folksreally swear by the Accel, and the Hal stuff has been on the market for years, so somebody likes/is buying it. I have a E6, but haven't connected it to anything yet, but it seems nice, and I like the full time Baro option. I like mountain driving. Bruce >Bruce, thanks for the info. This seems to be the cheapest way >to go as far as fully programmable systems go. For 695 you get >the computer and the software. It looks like most of the other >Mfr.'s (ACCELL comes to mind) sell the ECU and the S/W >separately. I guess the next question is how much more detail >is available in something like the ACCELL DFI system? > >If I decided to go with this OEM replacement, would I end up >buying the DFI 6 months down the road? I guess that's more of >a rhetorical question :) > >Charles > > > >Bruce Plecan wrote: >> >> With a repin does about any map delco appllication, looks to be >> an exact 808 Plug+Play, would make sense since they are in >> Australia. Options for leading/trailing edge for ignition injector >> firing figured by cyl number divide by, 22 entries per level for >> fuel, 1-2-3 bar, and full time bar. Remote programming by laptop. >> If you find their site (in archives lacking any leads) it shows all >> the tables/switches/options in demo download. Full time baro >> is optional. > ------------------------------ From: Don Holtz Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:31:04 -0800 Subject: Ignition coil inductance? Hello! I am working on a device for testing ECM functionality. When completed it will be able to measure a variety of ECM parameters like injector duty, etc. Can anyone guess at what a good "typical" primary-side ignition coil inductance value might be? A range of value would be good. I need to know this because my tester is essentialy simulating engine function while taking measurements. So, I also need to simulate the ignition circuitry too. I hope this makes some sense. Cheers, Don ------------------------------ From: Charles Brooks Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:37:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Programmable ECU's Wow, that's a pretty decent discount. I'll have to try to get in on a group buy in the future. Charles Bruce Plecan wrote: > > It's probably over but call Rob at Force Fuel, Force EFI, in Miami FL, there > was just a group by for the 3rd Gen F-Bodies, where they were $550. > Some folksreally swear by the Accel, and the Hal stuff has been on the > market > for years, so somebody likes/is buying it. I have a E6, but haven't > connected > it to anything yet, but it seems nice, and I like the full time Baro option. > I like mountain driving. > Bruce ------------------------------ From: mssinc@xxx.net Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:23:23 -0500 Subject: Re: ECU6 development help Al, I'm not a design type...fabrication, specifications, tuneing, and putting people/things togather are my strong points. I also spent alot of time in purchasing so I can help with contract fabrication of PCB, obtaining materals etc. my in real life nick is halfprice, I earned it!! Thanks Bob Price At 11:36 AM 1/15/99 -0800, you wrote: >Bob, great to hear you're interested. I'll put you down as a hardware >design person, if that sounds good to you? > > Al > >Al Lipper >efi@xxx.org > >At 07:59 PM 1/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >>I'm interested in your injection system >> >>It seems you desire to perhaps make this a commercial product, such as a >>build it yourself, or kit form. >> >>I have an electronics/process control background plus I'm working on a 2.3 >>l Turbo EFI Ford (37 lb boost, Esslinger head, bla bla) not trying to give... > > > ------------------------------ From: Charles Brooks Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:39:05 -0500 Subject: Haltech E6GM I did a little reading through the archives and came across a post which mentioned that one drawback to the E6GM was that the RPM increments were 1000RPM as opposed to 500RPM in another system. Can someone explain the difference in operation and the effect on programming as well as driveablity? TIA, Charles Brooks ------------------------------ From: "Jimmy" Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:40:05 -0500 Subject: Re: ECU6 EFI system construction Al, I've also downloaded your files and am very interested. I'm available to help on a PC based front end for programming etc. I also have extensive automotive EFI and other experience. Jim Santoro Sebring MX w/TPI 1977 Triumph Bonneville SJ (soon to be injected) 1986 Fiat X1/9 1935 Morgan SS Replica (under construction) - -----Original Message----- From: Frederic Breitwieser To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 9:41 PM Subject: Re: ECU6 EFI system construction >> Mike, you have some good ideas about a display. Actually, you have some >> very good ideas about the display. I ahd also planned to incorporate at >> least a small LCD display, and incorporated an expansion connector on the >> board for just that purpose. It's the one that doesn't actually go >> anywhere, but has 8 CPU I/O bits and Vcc. I'll put you down for as someone >> who can potentially help. > >I haven't been following this thread (or any thread for that >matter) as much as I'd like, however I did download your >work Al to see what you've done and how you've done it. >While my interest is primarily PC based EFI for a variety of >reasons, I too am interested in displaying the >performance/status of the powertrain/vehicle to the driver >via LCD panels, in fact, I purchased from www.eio.com two >such $99 5.5" sharp NTSC displays in hopes of doing so. I >intended at one time to utilize those old VIC chips from the >Commodore 64, as I had a few lying around as replacements, >but I can't seem to find the chips. I wouldn't mind >participating in this if this shall be considered a group >participation thing. ALso, very interested in the EFI of >course. > >-- >Frederic Breitwieser >Bridgeport, CT 06606 > >http://www.xephic.dynip.com >1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental >1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV >1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab >2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) > ------------------------------ From: "David A. Cooley" Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:56:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Haltech E6GM At 06:39 PM 1/15/99 -0500, you wrote: >I did a little reading through the archives and came across a post >which mentioned that one drawback to the E6GM was that the RPM >increments were 1000RPM as opposed to 500RPM in another system. > >Can someone explain the difference in operation and the effect on >programming as well as driveablity? > Programming it may be easier, as there are only half as many steps as other systems... the drawback is driveability, because the fuel and timing maps are more interpolation than data... Much more room for error. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:07:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Haltech E6GM - -----Original Message----- From: Charles Brooks To: DIY_EFI Fuel Injection List Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 6:57 PM Subject: Haltech E6GM 1,000 rpm for a 12,000 rpm capacity calibration, 500 rpm resolution for a 6,000 rpm calibation. Meaning no correction over 6,000 rpm not that the ecm wouldn't work at higher speeds. Bruce >I did a little reading through the archives and came across a post >which mentioned that one drawback to the E6GM was that the RPM >increments were 1000RPM as opposed to 500RPM in another system. > >Can someone explain the difference in operation and the effect on >programming as well as driveablity? > >TIA, > >Charles Brooks > ------------------------------ From: "WILMAN" Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 08:37:49 +0800 Subject: Re: Programmable ECU's (Was GM TPI tips for a newbie) - ---------- > From: Jason Weir > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: Programmable ECU's (Was GM TPI tips for a newbie) > Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 11:38 AM > > > > WILMAN wrote: > > > I've looked at several of them but frankly I'm not sure what > > > I should be looking for in a programmable EFI system. The > > > Accell DFI system seems popular and so do the Haltech > > > products. I must have looked at a dozen Mfr.'s. I was leaning > > > toward the Holley system but after receiving several messages > > > on the problems and deficiencies they have I changed my mind. > > > Which system(s) is/are considered the best? > > > > > > Charles > > > > > I am using GEMS EM20. It is very good. > > They are at http://www.gems.co.uk > > > > About how much did the EM20 cost if you don't mind me asking? > > Jason I think it is about 700 sterling. ------------------------------ From: "WILMAN" Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 08:45:24 +0800 Subject: Re: Programmable ECU's (Was GM TPI tips for a newbie) - ---------- > From: Charles Brooks > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: Programmable ECU's (Was GM TPI tips for a newbie) > Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 10:33 PM > > >>I am using GEMS EM20. It is very good. They are at > http://www.gems.co.uk << > > > Can you tell me a little about your application? > I am running a Peugeot 405 Mi16 with the Gems ecu. The engine is 1900 c.c., 4 cylinder and 16v. It has sequential injection with 4 x 16 ohm injectors, close loop lambda control, idle speed control valve dependent on coolant temperature and engine revs also with compensation with A/C and P/S. It has a Bosch Motronic type flywheel with speed sensor and a cam phase sensor. What exactly do you want to know? > I noticed that Haltech has a replacement for some of the > Delco puters. They call it the "E6GM". I printed out the > info sheet from the Haltech page, but they didn't have any > specs, or a list of ECU's that it could replace. Does anyone > have any info on this option? > > Charles ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:13:52 -0700 Subject: Re: Haltech E6GM >I did a little reading through the archives and came across a post >which mentioned that one drawback to the E6GM was that the RPM >increments were 1000RPM as opposed to 500RPM in another system. > >Can someone explain the difference in operation and the effect on >programming as well as driveablity? > >TIA, > >Charles Brooks Your fuel and timing maps are basically a matrix of (engine) load vs. speed, with fuel/advance values at each point on the chart. Either MAF or MAP is used as the load indicator, RPM as the speed indicator. Having mapped points every 500 RPM (with respect to speed) results in twice as many points on each chart as having them every 1000 RPM would. This leads to more accurate tuning. On the best systems, RPM increments and load increments are user selectable, and do not necessarily have to be evenly spaced (for instance, you could choose to lay your RPM increments out so that each higher one was an equal percentage greater than the one below!!) Take a look at the web sites for MoTeC and/or Autronics if you want to get a good idea of what programming options are available on higher end units. Also, there was a thread a few weeks ago talking about the effect of the minimum increment in injector pulse width of which a given ecu is capable of incrementing, and the effect of that factor on a tuner's ability to get an engine to idle in a civilized manner--particularly if using a big cam and/or injectors. IMHO, a unit with a minimum pw increment of more than 16 us --preferably 8 or 10 us (us, not ms) is not worth a #$@% for a STREETABLE hypo application. Check this out carefully before you buy!! Regards, Greg ------------------------------ From: Charles Brooks Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:22:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Haltech E6GM Is the E6GM capable of 500 RPM resolution? It's hard to tell from the Haltech page, and the post in the archives didn't elaborate. If so then I don't see any problem for my application. Hhmm, seems like I'm trying to talk myself into the Haltech unit, A 500 dollar difference is a persuasive argument :) Charles Brooks Bruce Plecan wrote: > > 1,000 rpm for a 12,000 rpm capacity calibration, 500 rpm resolution for a > 6,000 rpm calibation. Meaning no correction over 6,000 rpm not > that the ecm wouldn't work at higher speeds. > Bruce ------------------------------ From: Charles Brooks Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:46:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Programmable ECU's (Was GM TPI tips for a newbie) That about covers it :) I'm just trying to find out what types of systems people are using. And if they are using them in applications close to mine. Charles Brooks WILMAN wrote: > I am running a Peugeot 405 Mi16 with the Gems ecu. The engine is 1900 c.c., > 4 cylinder and 16v. > It has sequential injection with 4 x 16 ohm injectors, close loop lambda > control, idle speed control valve dependent on coolant temperature and > engine revs also with compensation with A/C and P/S. It has a Bosch > Motronic type flywheel with speed sensor and a cam phase sensor. What > exactly do you want to know? ------------------------------ From: thergen@xxx.net Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:51:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: 555 EFI Bruce, Are you thinking of a string of one-shots and using a varying voltage on the control pins to vary the output pulse width? If you're already going to be using op-amps to scale the output of the sensors, you could probably add/subtract the outputs of multiple op-amps together through resistors and run that into the control voltage pin of a smaller number of 555s. Since there's not 'learning' ability, the circuit might be very engine/sensor specific. Trying to apply it to an engine with a slightly different offset in the TPS or MAP sensors compared to the original engine/sensor combo it was tuned to might not work very well (without retuning that is). The same could probably be said for other fi controllers without feedback. Use capacitors with good temperature coefficients. X7R caps would be preferable to Z5U caps. Good Luck! (meant in an encouraging way) Tom On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, Bruce Plecan wrote: > I've been thinking about a simple EFI using a string of 555s. > Just like the "Normal" math would be, ie first 555, base pulse, > second Coolant temp correction, third MAP, and so on for like > 6+ 555 all in series. Trouble is this gets me, an addition of > correction factors, instead of multipling them, is this a major > problem?. I realize this ain't gonna be as good as a oem, > ecm, but would like to get fairly close. > I'm looking to keep this as much as an entry level thing, meaning > nothing but 555s, op-amps, and a final drive. > On a related note, does anyone know if the gm ecms use a > standard "pinout" for the resistors in the netres?. Is the netres > only for full limp home mode, meaning it goes to fixed timing?. > Any thoughts appreciated. > Cheers > Bruce > ------------------------------ From: Charles Brooks Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 21:34:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Haltech E6GM Hope you don't mind me doing a little psuedo research and asking what the result of the thread was. Which ECU's had the finest PW control? Charles Brooks Greg Hermann wrote: > > Also, there was a thread a few weeks ago talking about the effect of the > minimum increment in injector pulse width of which a given ecu is capable > of incrementing, and the effect of that factor on a tuner's ability to get > an engine to idle in a civilized manner--particularly if using a big cam > and/or injectors. IMHO, a unit with a minimum pw increment of more than 16 > us --preferably 8 or 10 us (us, not ms) is not worth a #$@% for a > STREETABLE hypo application. Check this out carefully before you buy!! ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 21:50:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Haltech E6GM - -----Original Message----- From: Charles Brooks To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 8:39 PM Subject: Re: Haltech E6GM >Is the E6GM capable of 500 RPM resolution? It's hard to tell >from the Haltech page, and the post in the archives didn't >elaborate. If so then I don't see any problem for my >application. Hhmm, seems like I'm trying to talk myself into >the Haltech unit, A 500 dollar difference is a persuasive >argument :) If you find the demo software go - or + on the fuel timing table, and you should see the 500 rpm steps off of Alt F tables it is 1000 rpm steps. Sounds confusing til ya read/see the manual. Bruce, and does show very fine resolution in idle fuel as GH mentions. > >Charles Brooks > > > >Bruce Plecan wrote: >> >> 1,000 rpm for a 12,000 rpm capacity calibration, 500 rpm resolution for a >> 6,000 rpm calibation. Meaning no correction over 6,000 rpm not >> that the ecm wouldn't work at higher speeds. >> Bruce > ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:32:59 -0700 Subject: Re: Haltech E6GM >Is the E6GM capable of 500 RPM resolution? It's hard to tell >from the Haltech page, and the post in the archives didn't >elaborate. If so then I don't see any problem for my >application. Hhmm, seems like I'm trying to talk myself into >the Haltech unit, A 500 dollar difference is a persuasive >argument :) > >Charles Brooks Watch it--check the specs closely-- I think maybe the Haltech unit will only change injector pw 64 us at a time. Might be part of the old "you get what you pay for" syndrome! Greg > > > >Bruce Plecan wrote: >> >> 1,000 rpm for a 12,000 rpm capacity calibration, 500 rpm resolution for a >> 6,000 rpm calibation. Meaning no correction over 6,000 rpm not >> that the ecm wouldn't work at higher speeds. >> Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Fran and Bud" Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:39:53 +0000 Subject: Low Pressure Transducers Joel, Has anyone answered your post about low pressure transducers? I want to come up with a tool that will let me run tiny tubing to various points on and in my truck, to locate and measure areas of hi and lo aerodynamic pressure. Actual values are not too important - just pressure at one location relative to another location. Would like to hear if you receive any leads. Bud Todd quest100@xxx.net ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:13:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Haltech E6GM - -----Original Message----- From: Greg Hermann To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 10:47 PM Subject: Re: Haltech E6GM >>Is the E6GM capable of 500 RPM resolution? It's hard to tell >>from the Haltech page, and the post in the archives didn't >>elaborate. If so then I don't see any problem for my >>application. Hhmm, seems like I'm trying to talk myself into >>the Haltech unit, A 500 dollar difference is a persuasive >>argument :) >>Charles Brooks >Watch it--check the specs closely-- I think maybe the Haltech unit will >only change injector pw 64 us at a time. Might be part of the old "you get what you pay for" syndrome! >Greg The software reads one axis as milliseconds, and the increments are (as an example) 4.032, 4.048, 4.064, 4.080, and 4.096. Looks to be .000016, to me (course Doc always corrects me twice when I start writing things with many zeroes, but he's out tonite). Bruce >> >> >> >>Bruce Plecan wrote: >>> >>> 1,000 rpm for a 12,000 rpm capacity calibration, 500 rpm resolution for a >>> 6,000 rpm calibation. Meaning no correction over 6,000 rpm not >>> that the ecm wouldn't work at higher speeds. >>> Bruce > > ------------------------------ From: "paul" Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:10:13 +1100 Subject: Re: Haltech E6GM Hi There, Maybe I can Help.I own a Haltech E6GM and an Autronic SMC unit. The E6GM has 22 fuel ranges every 500rpm up to 10500rpm or 17 fuel ranges every 1000rpm up to 16000rpm and 32 load points per range. These are the same for spark and fuel which gives a very precise adjustment. this is also interpolated to work out smaller increments. This system is definately much more user friendly than the Autronic system. Another great feature is the data logging but the laptop must be plugged in for recording the info.I hope this info has been useful. P.S my E6GM ecm is for sale but I live in Australia so someone else out there may be interested. PAUL. - ---------- > From: Charles Brooks > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: Haltech E6GM > Date: Saturday, January 16, 1999 12:22 PM > > Is the E6GM capable of 500 RPM resolution? It's hard to tell > from the Haltech page, and the post in the archives didn't > elaborate. If so then I don't see any problem for my > application. Hhmm, seems like I'm trying to talk myself into > the Haltech unit, A 500 dollar difference is a persuasive > argument :) > > Charles Brooks > > > > Bruce Plecan wrote: > > > > 1,000 rpm for a 12,000 rpm capacity calibration, 500 rpm resolution for a > > 6,000 rpm calibation. Meaning no correction over 6,000 rpm not > > that the ecm wouldn't work at higher speeds. > > Bruce ------------------------------ From: "paul" Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:18:59 +1100 Subject: Re: Uploaded BIN to FTP Ross, I tried to download the bin file to have a look but it came up with a url fault .....any ideas on how to download it???????? PAUL. - ---------- > From: Ross Myers > To: EFI List > Subject: Uploaded BIN to FTP > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 6:20 PM > > Hi All, > > For those who are interested I've uploaded a BIN to the DIY_FTP /incoming > dir. > The file is called VS_BSTK1451 (V6).BIN > > It's from a 95/96 model VS Holden Commodore. > PCM is a #16210672, 3.8L V6, 4Spd Electronic Auto, Memcal uses 27010 (32 > pin) ROM. > > Regards > > Ross Myers ------------------------------ From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:38:30 -0500 Subject: Re: 555 EFI thergen@xxx.net wrote: > > Bruce, > > Are you thinking of a string of one-shots and using a varying > voltage on > the control pins to vary the output pulse width? If you're already going > to be using op-amps to scale the output of the sensors, you could probably > add/subtract the outputs of multiple op-amps together through resistors > and run that into the control voltage pin of a smaller number of 555s. > question of clarification: what is the "control voltage" pin? My understanding of the 555 operation is the cap and resistance (cap between threshold {connected to discharge for monostable}and ground - resistor from B+ to threshold) were an RC "tank" circuit. The resistor controls the time required for the cap to reach 2/3 of B+ voltage. A variable voltage will not do this properly. If the control voltage on the threshold pin drops below 2/3 supply voltage, you do not get a trigger. How about running the 555 with a "floating ground" from 12 volts, and the "threshold" or control voltage anchored from ground? As long as the control voltage cannot exceed the supply voltage it should work. By varying the "floating ground" with a variable negative voltage regulator you would have one input, and varying the threshold voltage source (through a resistor) using something like a MAP sensor or TPS you would have a second input. Varying the charge current control resistor would give a third input. Vary the source voltage, or "floating ground point" according to temperature, charge voltage according to MAP or TPS, and charge current resistor for "mixture control" fine tuning ( thinking of aircraft apps here) and it might be doable? Mabee use an O2 sensor to feedback control this fine adjustment for automotive use? Let's hear the feedback. ------------------------------ From: cosmic.ray@xxx.com (Raymond C Drouillard) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 00:38:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Ignition coil inductance? Most of the coils that I have seen quoted range in the 10 - 30 Henry range. On Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:31:04 -0800 Don Holtz writes: >Hello! > >I am working on a device for testing ECM functionality. When >completed it >will be able to measure a variety of ECM parameters like injector >duty, etc. > >Can anyone guess at what a good "typical" primary-side ignition coil >inductance value might be? A range of value would be good. > >I need to know this because my tester is essentialy simulating engine >function while taking measurements. So, I also need to simulate the >ignition circuitry too. > >I hope this makes some sense. > >Cheers, >Don > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:53:59 -0500 Subject: Re: 555 EFI - -----Original Message----- From: thergen@xxx.net> To: DIY_EFI Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 9:22 PM Subject: Re: 555 EFI >Bruce, > >Are you thinking of a string of one-shots and using a varying >voltage on >the control pins to vary the output pulse width? Exactly If you're already going >to be using op-amps to scale the output of the sensors, you could probably >add/subtract the outputs of multiple op-amps together through resistors >and run that into the control voltage pin of a smaller number of 555s. Well this is for kinda 332 for Dummies. Just a see you can do it operation. Skill level requarded, knowing which end of soldering iron gets hot. > >Since there's not 'learning' ability, the circuit might be very >engine/sensor specific. Trying to apply it to an engine with a slightly >different offset in the TPS or MAP sensors compared to the original >engine/sensor combo it was tuned to might not work very well (without >retuning that is). The same could probably be said for other fi >controllers without feedback. In this case, that is just fine, since it's meant to be a grow your own. > >Use capacitors with good temperature coefficients. X7R caps would be >preferable to Z5U caps. Geez I almost made it all day with just one 3x5 card of notes. Dang, grin Thanks Bruce > >Good Luck! (meant in an encouraging way) >Tom > >On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, Bruce Plecan wrote: > >> I've been thinking about a simple EFI using a string of 555s. >> Just like the "Normal" math would be, ie first 555, base pulse, >> second Coolant temp correction, third MAP, and so on for like >> 6+ 555 all in series. Trouble is this gets me, an addition of >> correction factors, instead of multipling them, is this a major >> problem?. I realize this ain't gonna be as good as a oem, >> ecm, but would like to get fairly close. >> I'm looking to keep this as much as an entry level thing, meaning >> nothing but 555s, op-amps, and a final drive. >> On a related note, does anyone know if the gm ecms use a >> standard "pinout" for the resistors in the netres?. Is the netres >> only for full limp home mode, meaning it goes to fixed timing?. >> Any thoughts appreciated. >> Cheers >> Bruce >> > ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 00:03:30 -0500 Subject: Re: 555 EFI - -----Original Message----- From: Clarence L.Snyder To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 11:57 PM Subject: Re: 555 EFI >thergen@xxx.net wrote: >> >> Bruce, >> >> Are you thinking of a string of one-shots and using a varying >> voltage on >> the control pins to vary the output pulse width? If you're already going >> to be using op-amps to scale the output of the sensors, you could probably >> add/subtract the outputs of multiple op-amps together through resistors >> and run that into the control voltage pin of a smaller number of 555s. >> >question of clarification: >what is the "control voltage" pin? My understanding of the 555 operation >is the cap and resistance (cap between threshold {connected to discharge >for monostable}and ground - resistor from B+ to threshold) were an RC >"tank" circuit. The resistor controls the time required for the cap to >reach 2/3 of B+ voltage. Pin 5 sets B+ as you discribe it. Bruce A variable voltage will not do this properly. > >If the control voltage on the threshold pin drops below 2/3 supply >voltage, you do not get a trigger. > >How about running the 555 with a "floating ground" from 12 volts, and >the "threshold" or control voltage anchored from ground? As long as the >control voltage cannot exceed the supply voltage it should work. By >varying the "floating ground" with a variable negative voltage regulator >you would have one input, and varying the threshold voltage source >(through a resistor) using something like a MAP sensor or TPS you would >have a second input. Varying the charge current control resistor would >give a third input. > >Vary the source voltage, or "floating ground point" according to >temperature, charge voltage according to MAP or TPS, and charge current >resistor for "mixture control" fine tuning ( thinking of aircraft apps >here) and it might be doable? Mabee use an O2 sensor to feedback control >this fine adjustment for automotive use? > >Let's hear the feedback. > ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #36 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. 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