DIY_EFI Digest Monday, 18 January 1999 Volume 04 : Number 043 In this issue: RE: Astro ECM Re: Chyrsler injector head Re: Volvo FI help request Re: Astro ECM Re: Chyrsler injector head ECU6 development help Re: Water Injection Thread Re: Volvo FI help request Electronic timing advance Re: Volvo FI help request Re: Spark timing, '747 Re: Spark timing, '747 Re: DFI info Re: DIY_EFI FTP directory Re: Pingin' Anyone try the Speed-Pro ECU? Timing computer RE: 555 EFI Re: ECU6 development help Re: Electronic timing advance Re: Bin to ECM ID Re: 555 EFI Re: 555 EFI Re: 555 EFI Re: 555 EFI Bosch ecu question Re: Bosch ecu question Re: 555 EFI ECU6 - EFI plans and software now online Re: Is this DFI(Chyrsler injector head) Re: Pingin' Re: TCC switch & questions..... Re: 555 EFI See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rauscher@xxx.com Date: Mon, 18 Jan 99 13:56:47 -0500 Subject: RE: Astro ECM >From: "Ward Spoonemore" > >There are only two possible "122xxxx" ECM's in Astro's, the >1227747 and 1228062. > >1227747 in Astro's 87 - 90 >1228062 in Astro's 88 - 91 > This is exactly what I thought, thats what threw me. The number that I posted was from memory, but I looked at that ECM several times, reading out the number. I found it installed in the stock location, so I don't think that it was swapped by someone in the yard. The other thing, is that the number started as '124...', not the usual '122...'. And it was the service number I read. I also walked around the van checking the shape and emblems, it was an Astro van. Weird. Maybe I'll just go back and get it. >The 1227747 is more popular in standard duty (GVWW lt 8500 lbs) >5.0l & 5.7l equipped C/K trucks, 86 - 92. > Yep, these vans are where I've been getting the harness, sensors, distrib, coil, ECM... for my swap. They are cheap and plentiful. Heck, everything for a TBI swap is less than the price of a new carb. > >The 1227747 is calibration template type $42 >the 1228062 is calibration template type $4E > >Both types have the same hardware but different firmware and thus >different calibration lay outs. > See this, new info. OK, how about these 'templates', have any info on the calibration layouts? Anyplace I can go for info? > >Ward BobR. Who now has pencil and paper in his junkyard scouring toolbag. - -- ------------------------------ From: thergen@xxx.net Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:02:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Chyrsler injector head 28% [spark, not engine???] power increase when using coil on plug ignition. Tom On Mon, 18 Jan 1999 xxalexx@xxx.com wrote: > This link describes features of engine. > http://www.media.chrysler.com/wwwprkt/25aa.htm > wide spray in head injectors that shoot only when valve open. > 28% power increase when using coil on plug ignition. > dual thermostat pulsed cooling system. > block and cylinder mods. > alex > ------------------------------ From: Teller.John@xxx.com Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:15:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Volvo FI help request My 91 Ranger did the same thing after a !@#$-head grease monkey managed to fill the MAF sensor (Hot wire type) with oil while filling the crank case (you have to see a 3.0L engine up close to understand how this can happen). This caused the EEC to run the engine extremely rich, which produced loads of black smoke... Just a shot in the dark, as I don't know what sort of system Volvo installs. - --- John "Ron Gregory" on 01/18/99 01:05:11 PM Please respond to diy_efi@xxx.edu To: diy_efi@xxx.edu cc: (bcc: John Teller/ORBVA) Subject: Volvo FI help request I have a buddy with a FI Volvo (either '84 or '85), that is acting up. It will start fine, but about 30 seconds later, it will start to pump black smoke everywhere...big-time rich. He pulled plugs and they are wet and black... He's replaced about everything I can think of... air sensor, IAC(or whatever Volvo calls it), fp regulator, temp sensor, O2 sensor, etc. He wasn't too sure how to test any of those sensors, so he's just been using the "I'll swap it to see if it gets better" method of auto repair He hasn't touched the ECM, injectors, ignition module, or distributor. Is there any sort of data stream coming out of the ECM that we may be able to watch to get clues? Will that ECM blink codes (a la Delco ECMs)? Please respond directly. I'm a digest subscriber, and I'm sure most of the rest of the list couldn't care less... Thanks, ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Ron Gregory rgregory@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:26:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Astro ECM > >See this, new info. OK, how about these 'templates', have any >info on the calibration layouts? Anyplace I can go for info? Programming 101 is just about the 747, and basic prom stuff. >> >>Ward > >BobR. Who now has pencil and paper in his junkyard > scouring toolbag. > It's serious when ya have a staff 0f 7 tag along, and carry your own prom book, and Hollander manual. Bruce ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:43:09 -0700 Subject: Re: Chyrsler injector head >Quote from the page.. > >"Coil-on plug ignition provides individual, high-energy secondary coils which >are connected directly to each spark plug, providing more than a 28 percent >power increase over the former direct ignition system (DIS). " > >Is that a 28% power increase of the engine or the ignition system. I place my >bet on the ignition system. > >See ya, > >Mike Marketing hype and love--Ain't they both grand??? Greg ------------------------------ From: Matt Beaubien Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:14:47 -0700 (MST) Subject: ECU6 development help Al, I'd like to congratulate you for being one of the very few people who have actually managed to create a diy_efi system and live to tell about it on the list ;-). I think the best way to help development of your system is to have the electronics and software readily available so it's easy for many people to build and try out. Seeing as how the s/w is available, that leaves the h/w. How much work would it be to use an off-the-shelf single board computer with a small interface box to provide the same functionality? This way, there's a much better chance of people assembling the parts they need and getting it to actually work. If there isn't much glue circuitry needed between the SBC and engine, it could even be done without a PCB, greatly simplifying things. Looking a bit further out, would it be possible to port it to a PIC, or are they not powerful enough? A PIC could reduce the amount of support circuitry and potentially lower construction costs. As far as the current circuit goes, how hard would it be to convert the injector driver to allow for multiport, batch-fired setup? I will have a 1200cc Honda running in the "near future" with a Haltech system so I would have the ability to compare the two systems. I could even help out with the programming, if it's still in BASIC ;-). Good work. Matt Beaubien mbeaubie@xxx.ca Edmonton, Alberta Canada ------------------------------ From: fastski@xxx.com Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:17:31 PST Subject: Re: Water Injection Thread I think the closest ancestor to the Corvette (C5)is the 928 Porsche. I remember seeing parts from a number of them torn apart in the Powertrain garage about the time they were doing the initial design work on the Corvette powertain. _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:10:23 -0700 Subject: Re: Volvo FI help request >I have a buddy with a FI Volvo (either '84 or '85), that is >acting up. It will start fine, but about 30 seconds later, >it will start to pump black smoke everywhere...big-time rich. >He pulled plugs and they are wet and black... > >He's replaced about everything I can think of... >air sensor, IAC(or whatever Volvo calls it), >fp regulator, temp sensor, O2 sensor, etc. >He wasn't too sure how to test any of those >sensors, so he's just been using the >"I'll swap it to see if it gets better" method >of auto repair > >He hasn't touched the ECM, injectors, >ignition module, or distributor. > >Is there any sort of data stream coming out of the >ECM that we may be able to watch to get clues? >Will that ECM blink codes (a la Delco ECMs)? > >Please respond directly. I'm a digest subscriber, and I'm >sure most of the rest of the list couldn't care less... > >Thanks, >~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ >Ron Gregory >rgregory@xxx.com If it is not the coolant temp sensor (or the wiring to it) (this is what has caused the described symptoms on every Volvo I have seen do this), try nosing around to see whether something is causing the starting enrichment injector to stay on all the time. Regards, Greg ------------------------------ From: Matt Beaubien Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:20:38 -0700 (MST) Subject: Electronic timing advance > The next now is to disable the existing (horrible) centrifugal advance > mechanism, which is easy. Can you just not fix the centrifugal advance and use it with the Crane (formerly Allison) unit? That may be your easiest solution. > My original posting to which you replied most kindly was ... > "... 3. Feed the optical pick up output to a digital advance / retard > unit > implementing a simple, programmable advance curve capable of at least 16 > sites. > 4. Optionally add an imput for a detonation sensor to provide a few > degrees of detonation induced retard. > 5. The unit should just provide an output emulating a normal contact > breaker, to drive a separate high energy electronic ignition unit > (already fitted in my car)...." Did you check out the Accel 49340 timing computer? I'm not sure it it's compatible with your optical output but you can talk to them and find out. More info can be found at www.mrgasket.com/accelnew.htm. There's not provision for a detonation sensor. They tend to be pretty engine specific but there's a company called J&S that make such a device (I don't know much about it). That's about it. Matt Beaubien mbeaubie@xxx.ca Edmonton, Alberta ------------------------------ From: "David Cooley" Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:28:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Volvo FI help request Ron, Those use a mechanical air flow sensor... the vane jams open and will make it run pig rich. It may be able to be cleaned, but it's doubtfull... All of them I have seen have had to be replaced. Take care, Dave - -----Original Message----- From: Ron Gregory To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Monday, January 18, 1999 1:09 PM Subject: Volvo FI help request >I have a buddy with a FI Volvo (either '84 or '85), that is >acting up. It will start fine, but about 30 seconds later, >it will start to pump black smoke everywhere...big-time rich. >He pulled plugs and they are wet and black... > >He's replaced about everything I can think of... >air sensor, IAC(or whatever Volvo calls it), >fp regulator, temp sensor, O2 sensor, etc. >He wasn't too sure how to test any of those >sensors, so he's just been using the >"I'll swap it to see if it gets better" method >of auto repair > >He hasn't touched the ECM, injectors, >ignition module, or distributor. > >Is there any sort of data stream coming out of the >ECM that we may be able to watch to get clues? >Will that ECM blink codes (a la Delco ECMs)? > >Please respond directly. I'm a digest subscriber, and I'm >sure most of the rest of the list couldn't care less... > >Thanks, >~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ >Ron Gregory >rgregory@xxx.com > > ------------------------------ From: rauscher@xxx.com Date: Mon, 18 Jan 99 15:45:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Spark timing, '747 Good answers seem to always bring more questions... For some reason, I'll bet there's a location/value that defines a cold engine vs. a warm engine?! Probably not something that needs to be changed, but I just gotta ask. While I'm asking, location 0017, right after the # of cyl, by just looking at various bin's, I get the feeling that this value is either a transmission type or displacement code? This one has been bothering me for some time. BobR. Thanks again. Starting to feel like a kid at Christmas as a hint of warmth returns to the garage. >> Spark Adder (main spark bias). A location in the ECM mapping? > >Yes > >> Anyone know where this is? > >yes, 0014, (warm engine) >> >> Cold spark bias. Again, mapping in the ECM? > >yes, 0015 >> >>This all pertains to the '747 ECM. > >So do my answers >Bruce >>BobR. - -- ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:22:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Spark timing, '747 - -----Original Message----- From: rauscher@xxx.com> To: DIY_EFI@xxx.edu> Date: Monday, January 18, 1999 4:10 PM Subject: Re: Spark timing, '747 > >Good answers seem to always bring more questions... >For some reason, I'll bet there's a location/value that defines a cold engine >vs. a warm engine?! Lots of temps., like for learn, closed loop, egr enable, TCC enable, kinda like warm enough for what. Bruce > >Probably not something that needs to be changed, but I just gotta ask. >While I'm asking, location 0017, right after the # of cyl, by just looking at >various >bin's, I get the feeling that this value is either a transmission type or >displacement >code? This one has been bothering me for some time. >BobR. >Thanks again. > ------------------------------ From: Charles Brooks Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:55:44 -0500 Subject: Re: DFI info Well, mostly because that's what was recommended to me. Can you point me toward some literature that compares the two? I'd like to see an unbiased comparison but I've been unable to dig one up. I assumed (Along with the advice I was given) that going sequential reduced fuel consumption and emissions while improving idle quality and performance all by a good margin. Is this wrong, or exagerated? Charles Brooks Bruce Plecan wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles Brooks > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > Date: Monday, January 18, 1999 10:23 AM > Subject: Re: DFI info > > Why SEFI?. From what I've read other than a slight improvement in idle, > light cruise emissions there doesn't seem to be any real gains with it. > Bruce > ------------------------------ From: Charles Brooks Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:58:59 -0500 Subject: Re: DIY_EFI FTP directory Uuhhh, I didn't think of searching the archives :) Thanks will do, Charles Brooks steve ravet wrote: > > I've begun putting one together. There's a link on the main WWW page > called "ftp site index" or something like that. > > People have been pretty good about notifying the list when they upload, > so if you're curious about a particular file try searching the archives > for the filename. > ------------------------------ From: "Andrew F. Gunnesch" Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:05:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Pingin' On Jan 17, 11:52am, David A. Cooley wrote: > Subject: Re: Pingin' > At 11:27 AM 1/17/99 -0500, you wrote: > >With coming into a '85 turbo EXP (w/ a turbo leaking oil into the intake side) > >the car had EXTREMELY bad detonation. When I repaired the turbo (stopped the > >oil leak) the detonation went away (and all that blue smoke :) ). I've heard > >that oil in the air/fuel mixture causes detonation and I'd like to know why? > >Any intelligent answers out there?? > > Oil is of an extremely low octane (if used for fuel). when the engine > starts sucking oil through the intake, it is mixed with the air fuel > mixture effectively reducing it's octane rating. Even though you may be > running gas with a 93 rating, with enough oil you may be down to 80... > Like mixing kerosene with your gas... it lowers the octane. I had the exact same sort of problem... inadvertently damaged an intake valve stem seal. Engine sucked lots of oil. Bad knock sensor too, so it sounded like I had a can of marbles shaking under the hood when I got on it. Replaced the bad knock sensor and redid the valve stem seals and everything is running great with the car now. ------------------------------ From: "life speed" Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:25:39 PST Subject: Anyone try the Speed-Pro ECU? Hi Folks, I'm new to this list, but not to hotrodding. I'm currently in the market for an ECU for my boat. I run a twin-turbo, intercooled 454 Chevy. Airresearch wastegates, Rajay turbos. It's an old Dunsmore motor. I need better control of ignition timing and turbo boost. Down the road, I'll certainly add fuel injection. So, what computers are best suited for the job, and most flexible/programmable? Some I've looked at are Haltech, Speed-Pro, Motec, and Electromotive. One of the most important requirements, I think, would be ECU code stored in Flash so you could take advantage of future updates downloadable over serial cable. Other features I would like: Wide-band O2 sensor. (Is Speed-Pro the only one who offers this?) Yes, I know I can live without it, but why? Control of two injectors per cylinder. Great for water injection, or high-octane race fuel under high boost conditions. I would like some method of adjusting for pump gas/7psi boost or race fuel/15 psi boost conditions. It would be ideal if I could do this _without_ a laptop. This may be a matter of implementation. For example, I understand the Haltech unit has two mappable outputs, and you can trim-pot between the two to get a dashboard-adjustable dial to interpolate between the "Race" and "pump" boost maps. Any ideas? Detonation sensor input. Again, not absolutely necessary, but why shouldn't I employ one? Outputs for wastegate control. I think they all have this. Crank trigger direct-ignition compatible. Probably a given. The more modern the ECU, the further from obsolescence, and the longer the lifespan I should see from it. I would appreciate any info on internal hardware of the various ECU mfg's as well. It would be nice to know how much "horsepower" the little computers have. Could be a reasonable indication of their capabilities, as well. Thanks in advance for the info. - -Lifespeed ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Charles Brooks Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:33:04 -0500 Subject: Timing computer I just ran across this, if someone is interested give him a call. Disclaimer: I DON'T KNOW THE GUY! Charles Brooks "Dan Bell Averill Park, NY phone #:518 674 3611 E-Mail: Bell1862@xxx.com MSD 8980 Timing Computer NEW $50" ------------------------------ From: Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:23:02 -0600 Subject: RE: 555 EFI When I was at a Research Lab we used a circuit to run the Dyno engines so I know it works. I cant scan it but could fax it to someone who could. The circuit triggers from dist pulses from the HEI module REF lead to a cd4013 Flip/Flop and cd4538 Dual monostable. The Q output of the 4013 goes to pin 2 of a 2 input And gate cd 4081. The Not Q goes to pin 5 of the 4081. Pins 1 and 6 of the 4081 are tied together and go to the Q output of the 4538. The pulse width is controlled by a 100K pot and .1 mfd cap on pin 2 of the 4538. Pins 4 and 3 of the 4081 go to power transistors that fire the injectors. 10K resistors are in series with the base of the transistors. A Throttle position sensor can be used in place of the 100K pot and will vary the pulse width from approx .5 to 10 Msec. If the TPS is 10K add resistors on each end of the pot to get 100K total. Place a switch on the Bypass line of the HEI, open to start, Ground to run. Now to the part I haven't tested yet. A FORD MAP sensor outpus a frequency in relation to the Vac present. Connect the output of the FORD MAP to the HEI module EST input. After the engine starts flip the switch to RUN and the FORD MAP will output about 160 Hz to the HEI mod. This should advance the timing. As you Rev the engine the Freq. will go down and retard the timing. If you want to add a coolant sensor and rather use a Voltage output MAP. Use a Summing amp config on the input of the monostable and a VCO to control the timing. Just my .02$ for a circuit that will run a engine for testing at a junk yard or on a stand. Don > -----Original Message----- > From: AL8001@xxx.com] > Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 8:45 AM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: 555 EFI > > In a message dated 99-01-15 09:33:21 EST, nacelp@xxx.net writes: > > > I'm looking to keep this as much as an entry level thing, meaning > >nothing but 555s, op-amps, and a final drive. > > Something like this would be great for testing junk yard engines or > moveing a > car that's a "work in progress" when the ECM and related parts are gone. > > Harold ------------------------------ From: Al Lipper Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:55:25 -0800 Subject: Re: ECU6 development help Good questions: I originally had the system running on a Blue Earth Research micro-440e. The problems I ran into were: 1) It didn't have enough memory because part of it's address space was used for memory mapped components and 2) It needed an external PC board with specialized hardware driver and input filtering components. It only takes another 5 or 6 chips (costing about $35 total) and it becomes a self-contained ECU. The interface board had enough components on it that the proto-board version would have been far easier to build (and have work reliably) if it were a PC board. The design can certainly be adapted to batch-fire injectors. At the moment, we have a few people who are working on hardware refinements, but still need someone who is a sharp 8051 programmer (esp. someone who's familiar with the Phillips derivatives). I think that if we all work together, we should have an updated PC board layout ready to build in a month or two. Al Al Lipper efi@xxx.org At 01:14 PM 1/18/99 -0700, you wrote: >Al, > >I'd like to congratulate you for being one of the very few people who have >actually managed to create a diy_efi system and live to tell about it on >the list ;-). > >I think the best way to help development of your system is to have the >electronics and software readily available so it's easy for many people to >build and try out. Seeing as how the s/w is available, that leaves the >h/w. How much work would it be to use an off-the-shelf single board >computer with a small interface box to provide the same functionality? > This way, there's a much better chance of people assembling the parts >they need and getting it to actually work. If there isn't much glue >circuitry needed between the SBC and engine, it could even be done without >a PCB, greatly simplifying things. > >Looking a bit further out, would it be possible to port it to a PIC, or >are they not powerful enough? A PIC could reduce the amount of support >circuitry and potentially lower construction costs. > >As far as the current circuit goes, how hard would it be to convert the >injector driver to allow for multiport, batch-fired setup? I will have a >1200cc Honda running in the "near future" with a Haltech system so I would >have the ability to compare the two systems. I could even help out with >the programming, if it's still in BASIC ;-). > >Good work. > > >Matt Beaubien >mbeaubie@xxx.ca >Edmonton, Alberta >Canada > ------------------------------ From: HADJIASLANIS ARIS 1260 800 Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 01:36:00 +0200 Subject: Re: Electronic timing advance Bruce, I was overwhelmed by the response of these people as to where I can look, and I will do so the moment I find a bit of time (dont forget Christmas is over). But to reply to your question, ideally I would like to find a ready made unit, small enough to hide in the engine compartment (remember classic car engine compartments must look "original"). In fact, going back to my electronics engineering years, I can "see" what I am looking for in the form of a tiny 8751 based PCB with one optical trigger input and a single transistor driver output emulating a contact breaker. Add to this a converter to drive the 5 volts chip and enough EMC protection and presto!!! Concerning firmware, the necessary code (including watch dog functions etc.) would easily be small enough to fit the on chip EPROM (or OTP). In fact the whole thing would look strikingly similar to this "Injector pulse width monitor" project I have been reading about the last few weeks here! Not withstanding my forthcoming search in the web, what I have come across until now is either too big or too cumbersome or an overkill. Best regards Aris -----Original Message----- From: HADJIASLANIS ARIS 1260 800 To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Sunday, January 17, 1999 6:23 AM Subject: FW: Electronic timing advance >The next now is to disable the existing (horrible) centrifugal advance >mechanism, which is easy. >However the 3rd is to then need to insert a digital programmable >ignition advance / retard mapping unit between the optical interruptor >output and the ignition unit. >Hmmmm after looking in the WWW for ages I have been unable to locate >such a unit devoid of other frills or compromises (e.g. just turbo or >Nitrous Oxide retard which really is quite different from what I need). Which means?. You want someone to custom design something for you?. Your wanting to design your own?. Or you need to adjust what you want, to what's available. Or dig further for answers. Maybe use part of a oem ecm, for timing control. Bruce > >My original posting to which you replied most kindly was ... >"... 3. Feed the optical pick up output to a digital advance / retard >unit >implementing a simple, programmable advance curve capable of at least 16 >sites. >4. Optionally add an imput for a detonation sensor to provide a few >degrees of detonation induced retard. >5. The unit should just provide an output emulating a normal contact >breaker, to drive a separate high energy electronic ignition unit >(already fitted in my car)...." >Any ideas will be highly appreciated. >Regards >Aris ------------------------------ From: ECMnut@xxx.com Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:03:15 EST Subject: Re: Bin to ECM ID In a message dated 1/18/99 1:08:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, nacelp@xxx.net writes: > A BHDF is used in a 95 "N" truck, anyone able to match this > to the ecm?. ie 95 "N" truck used two ecms > Bruce too new fer my book... What body is an "NB" truck? Mike V ------------------------------ From: "Bill the arcstarter" Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:12:17 PST Subject: Re: 555 EFI rauscher@xxx.com wrote: >Ya know' thinking about this, it just may work. Trigger the >555 from the distributor, divided by whatever to fire the >injectors the number of times per rev. > >Drive pin 5 (labeled 'control voltage' in the NS data book), from >a summing junction that has as input: > > change in TPS (open more, short duration) > RPM > MAP > CTS > >The only real downside, would be the VE. You would need to build >a non-linear function into the RPM/MAP areas. That's the trick. I think that the injection duration is a rather nonlinear function of all these variables. Building an electronics pack to properly "stir" them together might be very challenging. Personally I'd go PIC/AVR with a multichannel A to D converter! :) - -Bill ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:56:50 -0500 Subject: Re: 555 EFI Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com wrote: > > When I was at a Research Lab we used a circuit to run the Dyno engines so I > know it works. I cant scan it but could fax it to > someone who could. The circuit triggers from dist pulses from the HEI module > REF lead to a cd4013 Flip/Flop and cd4538 Dual monostable. The Q output of > the 4013 goes to pin 2 of a 2 input And gate cd 4081. The Not Q goes to pin > 5 of the 4081. Pins 1 and 6 of the 4081 are tied together and go to the Q > output of the 4538. The pulse width is controlled by a 100K pot and .1 mfd > cap on pin 2 of the 4538. Pins 4 and 3 of the 4081 go to power transistors > that fire the injectors. 10K resistors are in series with the base of the > transistors. A Throttle position sensor can be used in place of the 100K > pot and will vary the pulse width from approx .5 to 10 Msec. If the TPS is > 10K add resistors on each end of the pot to get 100K total. Place a switch > on the Bypass line of the HEI, open to start, Ground to run. Now to the > part I haven't tested yet. A FORD MAP sensor outpus a frequency in relation > to the Vac present. Connect the output of the FORD MAP to the HEI module > EST input. After the engine starts flip the switch to RUN and the FORD MAP > will output about 160 Hz to the HEI mod. This should advance the timing. As > you Rev the engine the Freq. will go down and retard the timing. If you > want to add a coolant sensor and rather use a Voltage output MAP. Use a > Summing amp config on the input of the monostable and a VCO to control the > timing. Just my .02$ for a circuit that will run a engine for testing at a > junk yard or on a stand. > > Don > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AL8001@xxx.com] > > Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 8:45 AM > > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > Subject: Re: 555 EFI > > > > In a message dated 99-01-15 09:33:21 EST, nacelp@xxx.net writes: > > > > > I'm looking to keep this as much as an entry level thing, meaning > > >nothing but 555s, op-amps, and a final drive. > > > > Something like this would be great for testing junk yard engines or > > moveing a > > car that's a "work in progress" when the ECM and related parts are gone. > > > > Harold I'm intersted, and I have a scanner if you want to fax it to me drop me a line off list and I'll give you my fax line #. ------------------------------ From: trinity@xxx.net (Mike) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:15:56 -0500 Subject: Re: 555 EFI >rauscher@xxx.com wrote: > >>Ya know' thinking about this, it just may work. Trigger the >>555 from the distributor, divided by whatever to fire the >>injectors the number of times per rev. >> >>Drive pin 5 (labeled 'control voltage' in the NS data book), from >>a summing junction that has as input: >> >> change in TPS (open more, short duration) >> RPM >> MAP >> CTS >> >>The only real downside, would be the VE. You would need to build >>a non-linear function into the RPM/MAP areas. > >That's the trick. I think that the injection duration is a rather >nonlinear function of all these variables. Building an electronics pack >to properly "stir" them together might be very challenging. > >Personally I'd go PIC/AVR with a multichannel A to D converter! :) > Was thinking the same thing. PIC16C672...8-pin DIP (or SO SMT pack), 4-channel A/D converter, interrupt on delta if memory serves. Pretty capable part in a tiny package. - -- Mike ------------------------------ From: trinity@xxx.net (Mike) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:24:54 -0500 Subject: Re: 555 EFI >> >>Personally I'd go PIC/AVR with a multichannel A to D converter! :) >> > >Was thinking the same thing. PIC16C672...8-pin DIP (or SO SMT pack), 4-channel A/D >converter, interrupt on delta if memory serves. Pretty capable part in a tiny >package. Oops...I should have said "12C672", not "16C672". - -- Mike ------------------------------ From: John Andrianakis Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:12:28 +0200 Subject: Bosch ecu question Has anyone prom tuned the following bosch ecu: 0261 203 340/341? I am having trouble locating the bytes that control the rev limiter. Thank you. John Andrianakis. ------------------------------ From: Orin Eman Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:52:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Bosch ecu question > Has anyone prom tuned the following bosch ecu: 0261 203 340/341? > I am having trouble locating the bytes that control the rev limiter. What's it for? Orin. ------------------------------ From: Chris Conlon Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:57:09 -0500 Subject: Re: 555 EFI This sounded like fun so I decided to play with it some, at least on paper. I have a question, though. What's the range of adjustment due to CTS, and what does that adjustment look like? I'm thinking that at "warm" temp or above, there is no adjustment, and below that temp, the pulse width gets multiplied by some value. The colder the temp, the larger the value. What would that max value be, though? 1.1? 1.5? 2.0? In other words, how much of a % difference does coolant temp make in the pulse width? I'm thinking it's 50-100%, which means I have to put it at a different place in my circuit. >Okay, who's gonna be the first one to say it would be easiear to skip all >the op-amps and use a PIC and some code? ;) Hah! You beat me to it. This is more fun though. ;) Also a nod to whoever pointed out that this is "just" D-Jetronic, I was thinking exactly that myself. ;) Anyway I'll try to get the circuit drawing into some format that other people might be able to look at. Chris C. ------------------------------ From: Al Lipper Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:17:41 -0800 Subject: ECU6 - EFI plans and software now online Thanks to everyone who is helping with the ECU6 project. It looks like we'll have the next version ready within a couple of months (schematic, pc board and software). If anyone is experienced at 8051 programming and has some time, we could certainly use help. For those folks who just want to build one, I'll try to keep you all updated on the project status. The current plans (schematics, PC board & software) are available at http://members.aol.com/ALIPPER/ Al ------------------------------ From: xxalexx@xxx.com Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:13:09 +0000 Subject: Re: Is this DFI(Chyrsler injector head) > Hello, > This link describes what I belive to be direct fuel injection, anyone > heard of this? It is just a injector spraying fuel right into the > cylinder bore, but I thought it needed special components to work with a > very high fuel pressure and wasn't oem bound for quite some time. > > www.media.chrysler.com/wwwprkt/25aa.htm > There is a press release at www.sae.org in another one of there profit schemes publications stating that the 99 Mitsu. Dingo bat will have GDI (gasoline direct injection). alex ------------------------------ From: cosmic.ray@xxx.com (Raymond C Drouillard) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:33:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Pingin' >Speaking of multi fuel motors--lemme mention the old Scout 800 short cab I >used to have, with a 196 cid four, with the (supposedly) export only >pistons and head--6.5 : 1 compression, but a REALLY sweet combustion >chamber design--guess it was designed to run on Pemex' (Mexico's) worst!! >It's favorite fuel mixture was 70% #2 diesel/ 30% unleaded regular. Ran >like STINK on it!! (Kinda always made me wonder how much boost it wouldda >stood----!! (On decent fuel!) > >Regards, Greg I have some experience with Pemex. We drove out Jeep Grand Waggoneer (from Detroit) to Mexico. The freshly rebuilt engine ran great on the way down, but kept getting worse and worse in Mexico. Our Mexican friends (who own an auto parts store and engine rebuilding shop) helped us fix it up. After all of that, getting another tank of Pemex (perhaps with a lower water content?) made it run a lot better. Once we got a tank of gas at El Paso, it really improved, and got better with each tank full. That was with a carburater. Now, it is injected and runs better than ever. I have a quart-sized filter/sediment bulb assembly that I'm going to install before going down there again, though. No telling what kind of crud is in that stuff, and I surely don't want any in my injecters. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:40:14 -0500 Subject: Re: TCC switch & questions..... diy_efi@xxx.edu wrote: > > Bruce - > > Thanks for the detailed explanation; I get the picture now, and agree w/ what you said. Think I'll drop the TCC lockup, as this vehicle's my daily transportation, not a race machine. > > As an afterthought, how about interrupting the ignition circuit, i.e., killing the engine for maybe 50msec, whilst the TCC's locking up? Might be pretty hard to time accurately, but the clutch would essentially lock under no active engine load; there'd still be the inertia of the converter and a speed mismatch between the engine crankshaft & trans input shaft, but should be a lot easier on all components involved. Probably not worth the effort ITO lower ETs, but would ease the situation, even w/ the factory applied lockup in 4th gear. > GM used to do that in the 50's and 60's when locking the overdrive planetary in the 3spd+od manual trans. Lotsa stories around about shattered parts, blown mufflers and lost races. And that's before anything "electronic" was added... Shannen > Just a thought - thanks again - Barry ------------------------------ From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:59:29 -0500 Subject: Re: 555 EFI Chris Conlon wrote: > > This sounded like fun so I decided to play with it some, at least on > paper. I have a question, though. What's the range of adjustment due > to CTS, and what does that adjustment look like? I'm thinking that > at "warm" temp or above, there is no adjustment, and below that temp, > the pulse width gets multiplied by some value. The colder the temp, > the larger the value. What would that max value be, though? 1.1? > 1.5? 2.0? In other words, how much of a % difference does coolant > temp make in the pulse width? I'm thinking it's 50-100%, which means > I have to put it at a different place in my circuit. > > >Okay, who's gonna be the first one to say it would be easiear to skip all > >the op-amps and use a PIC and some code? ;) > > Hah! You beat me to it. This is more fun though. ;) > > Also a nod to whoever pointed out that this is "just" D-Jetronic, I > was thinking exactly that myself. ;) > > Anyway I'll try to get the circuit drawing into some format that > other people might be able to look at. > > Chris C. Stoich is 14.7:1? Cold enrichment can be as much as something like 8:1 or 6:1 from what I have been able to find - which is not much. What pulse width difference are you looking at for MAP? I figured about 50Ms for full power (1.5")at 4800 RPM, +/-and about .025 for idle 15" vacuum- this for a 4 cyl with batch fired X2 setup. Cold enrich at idle could be as high as .050. Interested in seeing your doodling. ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #43 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. 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