DIY_EFI Digest Friday, 22 January 1999 Volume 04 : Number 052 In this issue: 85-90 ecm conversion Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Re: Carbon pistons?. Re: Another Non EFI Question Fw: Is your car Y2K Ready? Re: Prom dates, er codes Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Re: injector impedance Re: injector impedance TPI trivia... Service Manual RE: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths dual spray injectors Re: Fw: Is your car Y2K Ready? Re: dual spray injectors Re: 85-90 ecm conversion Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths RE: Service Manual RE: Prom dates, er codes ECU6 - 8051 ASM files RE: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Re: Carbon pistons?. Re: Another Non EFI Question Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Re: Is your car Y2K Ready? Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Re: Another Non EFI Question Re: Carbon pistons?. Re: Is your car Y2K Ready? Re: injector impedance water injection But preturbo RE: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths RE: water injection But preturbo Re: injector impedance Re: Is your car Y2K Ready? Re: Prom dates, er codes Re: water injection But preturbo Re: water injection But preturbo Re: FW: Electronic timing advance Re: Service Manual Re: injector impedance See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 07:56:28 -0500 Subject: 85-90 ecm conversion 85 vette uses a 6870 ecm, and the dash is operated off of the serial data line, or so it looks from the wiring diagram. I quess installing a 730 in it's place would render all the dash functions useless?. Does anyone know if the dash from a 90 vette would be a bolt-in to make this update possible?. Thanks in Advance Bruce ------------------------------ From: rauscher@xxx.com Date: Fri, 22 Jan 99 07:50:26 -0500 Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths > -- >The Proflow uses a Magneti Marelli IAW ECU. It has four independant >drivers/timers controlling the injectors as Tom states. > >Mike Ahh, thanks BobR. - -- ------------------------------ From: Benjamin Marsh Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 23:57:00 +1100 (EST) Subject: Re: Carbon pistons?. Anyone have any idea what a set of these things would cost? :P Ben On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Bruce Plecan wrote: > If anyone wants to buy me a couple sets, I'll report the results, > Cheers > Bruce Doc has already got the ceramic glazing paint > chart out. He thinks carbon fiber, ceramics > composites are all the same thing (all the c's > confuse the little guy) > > >http://nctn.hq.nasa.gov/innovation/Innovation54/complic.htm. > > ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:03:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Another Non EFI Question - -----Original Message----- From: Peter Fenske To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 3:01 AM Subject: Another Non EFI Question If the gears have been run (used) even with the correct shm, they may make some noise. The more hypoid to the gear set the less critical it is. Meaning on a straight bevel gear set it matters more than on a hypoid. A thou, I wouldn't worry over. But, if you/customer is a perfectionist might not be happy. Bruce > > >Hi All > >Hate to ask you another non efi guestion but >on a dana 44 if when replacing a gear set >The replacement pinion is stamped +0 >which is replacing a pinion stamped +1 > >This means I need a shim which is +1 thou >bigger.. > >Question is the pattern gonna be off significantly >if I use the old shim. > >TIA:peter > > ------------------------------ From: "Mike Pitts" Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:46:22 -0500 Subject: Fw: Is your car Y2K Ready? Check this scam out!!!! Geez! Pay $10 to ask this guy if your car is Y2k safe. Gimmie a break. I wonder how many poor souls will fall for this. - -----Original Message----- From: Automotive Diagnostics, Inc <87193349@xxx.com> To: Friend@xxx.com> Date: Thursday, January 21, 1999 9:52 PM Subject: Is your car Y2K Ready? >IS YOUR CAR Y2K SAFE? > FIND OUT! > $9.95 >http://www.adiauto.com ------------------------------ From: rauscher@xxx.com Date: Fri, 22 Jan 99 08:46:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Prom dates, er codes Bruce wrote: >As I understand proms, a 27C128, and 27128A are functionally >the same, meaning they share CMOS technology. > Anything else may have a different programming voltage, and >maybe of a slower operating speed??.. > > On the few 512 proms I've seen they have all been "27512s", with >no As or Cs?. The ""s are cause I not absolutely sure of that. >Thanks Again reference to gm type memcals >Bruce OK, EPROM's and the codes, it can be a mess. For the following information I'm using the National Semiconductor Memory Databook as a reference (1988 version). Without the 'C' in the middle, IE: 27C256, it is NOT a CMOS EPROM. It is most likely a NMOS part. As far as suffix's go: 'B' is used for a higher speed version of an EPROM, for programming (500usec prog pulse) 'C' is for a very high speed version (access and prog pulse[100usec]) 'N' is used for a one time programmable 'Q' is the package/window type, quartz 'E' is for extended temp range 'M' is for a military part, even greater temp range (Can't find what National uses the 'A' for, although they do use it, their '512 is only available as an 'A'). These suffix's can be combined: 27C64BQM high speed prog, quartz window, military temp range 27C256QE quartz window, extended temp range National EPROMs also use NMC for a prefix: "National, Memory, Cmos" After the letter suffix's, you will find some digits that define the access speed of that part. This will be either 2 or 3 digits. This is the access speed in nano-seconds. Some full numbers: NMC27C512AQ120: 120 nsec access time VCC = 5V +- 10%, 0C - 70C op range (commercial) NMC27C256CQ55 55 nsec access time VCC = 5V +- 10%, 0C - 70C op range You can find additional information at Atmel's and Nationals' web sites. The different programming algorithm's can be interesting reading. When I obtained EPROMS for this EFI project, I specified all National EPROMs so that I could setup the programming for one chip manufacture. (I built my own programmer). They are mostly the standard 27C256's with some 'E's mixed in. HTH BobR. - -- ------------------------------ From: Mike Brown Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 06:08:52 -0800 Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Bruce, Haven't had enough time to tell yet. Only started burning ROMs over the Christmas holidays. Been raining arround here so I have not been able to make as many test runs as I would have liked. This system is in my '34 coupe. Not the best test bed for rainy days.... too much cleaning afterwards. Nothing dramatic so far though. I didn't even know I had this problem till I started working on the code. I think it will make tuning a little more consistant. Sometimes it would run real good. The next time a little off and you would have to correct for it. Then the next time it was a little off the other way and you would have to move the mixture back to where it was before. Time will tell.... mike Bruce Plecan wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Brown > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > Date: Thursday, January 21, 1999 9:30 AM > Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths > > Did this make a noticeable difference, finding and curing this bug?. > Bruce > > >I have reverse engineered the hardware and firmware on this system and > >have corrected this bug. If anybody out there has an Edelbrock ProFlow > >and is interested in working together to improve it let me know as I > >have functional schematics and documented source code (the code is full > >of bugs I might add). Been working steadily on this for over 7 months. > > > >Mike > > ------------------------------ From: David Askren Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:42:10 -0500 Subject: Re: injector impedance > Ya can buy Ford 24lbs injectors for about 250.00. just don't tell die hard > gm people this- gets them all tweaked. > > Vance Summit has them in the latest catalog from Ford Motorsport Set of eight 19lb/hr $193 24lb/hr $199 30lb/hr $208 36lb/hr $369 Dave ------------------------------ From: "Andrew K. Mattei" Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:10:09 -0500 Subject: Re: injector impedance David Askren wrote: > Summit has them in the latest catalog from Ford Motorsport > Set of eight 19lb/hr $193 > 24lb/hr $199 > 30lb/hr $208 > 36lb/hr $369 I've heard *rumor* that they don't *look* like they fit, but that they actually fit fine. Guy on one of the Camaro lists sent his back 'cuz he didn't think they fit. Turns out several others on the list were running the same injectors with no prob. When it comes time to put my engine back together ;) I'll be going with (shhhh) the FoMoCo 24 lb'ers. - -Andrew (a die-hard Chevy fan, who knows the value of a buck) ------------------------------ From: "Ron Gregory" Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:11:52 -0600 Subject: TPI trivia... An article from Nov '95 4-Wheel & Off-Road, called "How to buy EFI" It talks all about the different TPIs... * TPI was produced from '85-'92 * '85-'89 TPI used MAF * '85-'88 used cold-start injector * '86 started the one-piece rear main seal * '86 was last year for coil-in-cap HEI (F-body) * 'Vettes kept big HEI through '92 * '87 started center-bolt valve covers * '87 started hydraulic roller-cams * aluminum heads started in mid '86 for 'vettes (never available for f-body) * '85 serpentine belts started in 'vette * '88 serpentine belts started in f-body FYI, ~~~~~~ Ron Gregory Syclone VIN #1452 rgregory@xxx.com Garland, TX ------------------------------ From: "Guenther,Max" Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:48:42 -0500 Subject: Service Manual Does anybody have a factory service manual for a 90' vette for sale? I just got the ECM from one need the book. Checked the price of a new >book(from Hayes)! Ouch. ------------------------------ From: andy quaas Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:00:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: RE: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Wouldn't carbon hinder flow around the head of the valve? I see that as the problem. Andy - ---"Kurek, Larry" wrote: > > Ok then....explain how this works to me.... > > The carbon on the back of the intake absorbs fuel, so it results in a lean > condition? I can see this happening on startup...but what happens when the > carbon is saturated? It WON'T absorb any more fuel, so how does it still > affect fuel ratios? I doubt it is a matter of absorbing fuel when rich, then > releasing it when leaner...and I doubt it would have a significant impact > anyhow. > > I think this is one of those urban myths...or is it one of those mechanic > myth things? :) > > Larry > > > > > > On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Shannen Durphey wrote: > > > > > The sometimes less than accurate GM classes I've attended teach that > > > injection should occur when the intake valve is closed,and be > > > completed immediately prior to intake valve opening. This > > would make > > > use of the heat in the head of the valve help keep fuel > > from pooling. > > > This was mentioned earlier. This might be GM's approach to sefi. > > > According to a service bulletin, the 3.8l engine suffers from carbon > > > accumulation on the back of the intake valve which significantly > > > reduces performance. I've seen the effects. It's very similar to > > > losing the accelerator pump on a carb'ed engine, and the exhaust is > > > excessively rich. My thought was the carbon is insulating > > the valve, > > > preventing vaporization. > > > Shannen > > > > > The way I heard it [at a Mopar school] is that the carbon > > accumulation on > > the back of the intake valve acts like a sponge, absorbing > > enough gasoline > > that the A/F mixture is upset. IIRC, only at low and medium > > cruise power. > > > > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ From: Ord Millar Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:06:24 -0400 Subject: dual spray injectors Hi - I am just returning to the list; I was previously a lurker here but other interests got in the way for a while. Does anyone know where I can find some injectors that spray two cones? Alternately, how about an injector where the spray is at a small (15 degree) angle relative to the body? Or, in a perfect world, one that does both? (Two cones, at an angle). Worst case, I can try to work with some sort of deflector. I am working on a project to deliver fuel at both valves on a multi-valve head. Thanks, Ord ------------------------------ From: Alain Toussaint Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:34:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Fw: Is your car Y2K Ready? i received these e-mail in the past (not about Y2K but sent to friend@xxx.com),if you receive it,i think there's maybe a bot looking in mail archives to find e-mail address..... AT > Check this scam out!!!! Geez! Pay $10 to ask this guy > if your car is Y2k safe. Gimmie a break. I wonder how > many poor souls will fall for this. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Automotive Diagnostics, Inc <87193349@xxx.com> > To: Friend@xxx.com> > Date: Thursday, January 21, 1999 9:52 PM > Subject: Is your car Y2K Ready? > > >IS YOUR CAR Y2K SAFE? > > FIND OUT! > > $9.95 > >http://www.adiauto.com > > > > Alain Toussaint Drummondville Quebec,Canada alaint@xxx.ca ------------------------------ From: "Gary Derian" Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:33:53 -0500 Subject: Re: dual spray injectors A deflector will collect the spray into a few big drops. Gary Derian >Hi - I am just returning to the list; I was previously a lurker here but other interests got in the way for a while. > >Does anyone know where I can find some injectors that spray two cones? >Alternately, how about an injector where the spray is at a small (15 degree) angle relative to the body? >Or, in a perfect world, one that does both? (Two cones, at an angle). >Worst case, I can try to work with some sort of deflector. > >I am working on a project to deliver fuel at both valves on a multi-valve head. > >Thanks, > >Ord ------------------------------ From: "Peter Fenske" Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:29:31 -0800 Subject: Re: 85-90 ecm conversion Hi Bruce and all Sorry 90 up dash is an entirely different design. You would have to change a whole bunch of things to make it work FYI the only thing the 85 dash needs from the ecm in my vette is the mpg stuff. Every other sensor is independant of the ecm. gl:peter ------------------------------ From: Clarence Wood Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:08:58 -0600 Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Please give more information on "motor-vac". How does it work? How much does it cost? Where do you get it? Thanks, Clarence At 06:40 PM 1/21/99 -0500, you wrote: (snip)>I don't know if it acts as a sponge or what, but the presence / absence >of carbon on the intake valves makes a SIGNIFICANT difference in >driveability. The 3.0 litre V6 in my aerostar had a BAD stumble off idle >when partly warmed up - to the point that on a cold day if I fired it up >and drove to the corner down the street it would invariably stall when >pulling away unless I floored it. Tried everything. Finally used a >"motor-vac" on it, which does an excellent job of decarbonizing - and >it's been perfect since. > > ------------------------------ From: Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:45:01 -0600 Subject: RE: Service Manual Call Dave's books 1-920-921-8393 or Email dmasarik@xxx.com He got a 94 Vette manual for my buddy for $75 > -----Original Message----- > From: Guenther,Max [SMTP:Mguenther@xxx.COM] > Sent: Friday, January 22, 1999 9:49 AM > To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu' > Subject: Service Manual > > > Does anybody have a factory service manual for a 90' vette for sale? I > just got the ECM from one need the book. Checked the price of a new > >book(from Hayes)! Ouch. ------------------------------ From: Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:56:41 -0600 Subject: RE: Prom dates, er codes Could I bother you for some info on a 16196397 BKWX ECM it has was looks like a small cal pak 16171749 and under this number 1034148. It is a under hood ECM and has an access door for the calpak. The guy that gave it to me thinks it is off of a 96 camaro R/S with a V6. Thanks for the help Don > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce Plecan [SMTP:nacelp@xxx.net] > Sent: Thursday, January 21, 1999 11:01 PM > To: DIY_EFI > Subject: Prom dates, er codes > > As I understand proms, a 27C128, and 27128A are functionally > the same, meaning they share CMOS technology. > Anything else may have a different programming voltage, and > maybe of a slower operating speed??.. > > On the few 512 proms I've seen they have all been "27512s", with > no As or Cs?. The ""s are cause I not absolutely sure of that. > Thanks Again reference to gm type memcals > Bruce ------------------------------ From: Al Lipper Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:23:50 -0800 Subject: ECU6 - 8051 ASM files Rick, The files for the fuel injection system are available at http://members.aol.com/ALIPPER/ Al At 12:45 PM 1/22/99 +0100, you wrote: >Sorry Al, I must have missed where the ECU6 is available from. One more >question. Thanks for your help. Great project. > >rick > ------------------------------ From: Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:39:27 -0600 Subject: RE: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Motor vac was shown on shade tree mechanic last week. It is made by snap-on. You disconnect your fuel and return line from the fuel rail connect them together so the fuel loops back to the tank. The motor vac has its own gas tank and solvent tank, you set the pressure going to the fuel rail. > -----Original Message----- > From: Clarence Wood [SMTP:clarencewood@xxx.net] > Sent: Friday, January 22, 1999 3:09 AM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths > > Please give more information on "motor-vac". How does it work? How > much does it cost? Where do you get it? > > Thanks, > Clarence > > At 06:40 PM 1/21/99 -0500, you wrote: > (snip)>I don't know if it acts as a sponge or what, but the presence / > absence > >of carbon on the intake valves makes a SIGNIFICANT difference in > >driveability. The 3.0 litre V6 in my aerostar had a BAD stumble off idle > >when partly warmed up - to the point that on a cold day if I fired it up > >and drove to the corner down the street it would invariably stall when > >pulling away unless I floored it. Tried everything. Finally used a > >"motor-vac" on it, which does an excellent job of decarbonizing - and > >it's been perfect since. > > > > ------------------------------ From: Raymond C Drouillard Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:23:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Carbon pistons?. I wouldn't let breakage in a top-fuel engine deter me. They'll probablly work fine in something that runs on a more sane mixture. Carbon pistons and connectiong rods hooked to a forged crank sounds like it might be the ticket. Ray On Thu, 21 Jan 1999 19:58:57 EST ECMnut@xxx.com writes: >In a message dated 1/21/99 5:20:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, >nacelp@xxx.net >writes: > >> If anyone wants to buy me a couple sets, I'll report the results, >> Cheers > >Top Fuel teams tried CF con-rods prolly 15+ years ago, but they >were so tough, crank failures caused them to give it up... >I guess other metals, like aluminum absorb (some) shock of >combustion, where carbon fiber just passes it on... >It will be interesting to see what happens with the pistons. >MV > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ From: Jim Davies Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:14:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Another Non EFI Question On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Peter Fenske wrote: > > > Hi All > > Hate to ask you another non efi guestion but > on a dana 44 if when replacing a gear set > The replacement pinion is stamped +0 > which is replacing a pinion stamped +1 > > This means I need a shim which is +1 thou > bigger.. > > Question is the pattern gonna be off significantly > if I use the old shim. > No. 1 thou will not make a difference. Quite a few mfrs only offer shims in 2 thou steps ... My 2 cents, based on a few hundred Dana 35 to 70 ratio changes. ------------------------------ From: "Andrew F. Gunnesch" Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:36:40 -0500 Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths On Jan 21, 11:49pm, James Ballenger wrote: > What about the two injector per cylinder arrangement of some company whose > name I have forgotten. IIRC, they had the first injector fire into the back of > the second injector. At this point compressed air was shot in to atomize and > build up pressure. Then the second injector shot a mixture in which 80% or > more was smaller than 10 microns. Apparently they are already building marine > engines and have deals going with a few auto companies. Anybody remember that Orbital Engine http://www.orbeng.com.au/tech/di4ssae.htm > article or their website? Btw, I am new here and will be working on a project > to make a sefi 400/455 Pontiac, but don't have a damned clue how to so any help > or suggestions would be great. Great scott! Please keep me up-to-date on this project. I want to FI a big Poncho myself when I have the time to do the same. - --andrew ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:29:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Is your car Y2K Ready? - -----Original Message----- From: Mike Pitts To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 8:41 AM Subject: Fw: Is your car Y2K Ready? You mean me, and the boys wasted $80?. Geez, Gotta work Grumpy,Doc, Bashful,Sneezy, and Sleepy all the harder now. OK, guys back to soldering those injectors together???. Bruce > >Check this scam out!!!! Geez! Pay $10 to ask this guy >if your car is Y2k safe. Gimmie a break. I wonder how >many poor souls will fall for this. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Automotive Diagnostics, Inc <87193349@xxx.com> >To: Friend@xxx.com> >Date: Thursday, January 21, 1999 9:52 PM >Subject: Is your car Y2K Ready? > >>IS YOUR CAR Y2K SAFE? >> FIND OUT! >> $9.95 >>http://www.adiauto.com > > > ------------------------------ From: "Gary Derian" Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:32:56 -0500 Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths I haven't done the research myself but this makes good sense to me. This is a common problem and cleaning the valves cures it. Gary Derian > >Is this fact?, or theory?. >Bruce > > >>Carbon buildup on the back if an intake valve absorbs fuel. During a >>transition from part to full throttle, the carbon absorbs some of the added >>fuel causing a momentary lean condition, just like a wet flow manifold. >> >>Gary Derian > ------------------------------ From: WAYNE JOHNSON Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:51:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Another Non EFI Question + means move it toward front of car. IMHO .001" won't make that much difference, but to do it right you should check the pattern with gear marking compound. Backlash may have to be adjusted, just remove thickness from one side and add the same amount to the other side. Shoot for .004-.008 backlash with pattern centered on drive side of tooth. On Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:43:22 -0800 "Peter Fenske" writes: > > >Hi All > >Hate to ask you another non efi guestion but >on a dana 44 if when replacing a gear set >The replacement pinion is stamped +0 >which is replacing a pinion stamped +1 > >This means I need a shim which is +1 thou >bigger.. > >Question is the pattern gonna be off significantly >if I use the old shim. > >TIA:peter > > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:54:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Carbon pistons?. - -----Original Message----- From: Benjamin Marsh To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Cc: DIY_EFI Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 8:20 AM Subject: Re: Carbon pistons?. Key word would normally be Carbon Fiber, what messes that up is licensed by NASA. Take the zip code of somewhere in LA, 2x and add your next three birthdays ages to it. That should al least cover one,,,, Bruce >Anyone have any idea what a set of these things would cost? >:P >Ben > >On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Bruce Plecan wrote: > >> If anyone wants to buy me a couple sets, I'll report the results, >> Cheers >> Bruce Doc has already got the ceramic glazing paint >> chart out. He thinks carbon fiber, ceramics >> composites are all the same thing (all the c's >> confuse the little guy) >> >> >http://nctn.hq.nasa.gov/innovation/Innovation54/complic.htm. >> >> > ------------------------------ From: kv@xxx.com Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:59:55 -0700 Subject: Re: Is your car Y2K Ready? I called these guys outta curiousity... he was pretty decent with me. Said that 98% of the cars are OK but some luxury cars (GM) (like Caddy) report the date to test equipment during diagnostics... apparently this is kept in the "Body Control Module"- and will need some sort of upgrade when Y2K rolls around... I told him I couldn't even keep the clock right on my radio--- he chuckled! I am an eternal skeptic (but also somewhat ignorant) when it comes to these things but he did seem *somewhat* believable... I guess if I had a late model Caddy I would look into it at least--- since I don't- and never will... (can't climb over rocks with one of them)- I'll move on. Anyway- FYI. ________________________________________________ Kevin Vannorsdel IBM Arm Electronics Development 408-256-6492 Tie 276-6492 kv@xxx.com "Bruce Plecan" on 01/22/99 11:29:43 AM Please respond to diy_efi@xxx.edu To: diy_efi@xxx.edu cc: (bcc: Kevin Vannorsdel/San Jose/IBM) Subject: Re: Is your car Y2K Ready? - -----Original Message----- From: Mike Pitts To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 8:41 AM Subject: Fw: Is your car Y2K Ready? You mean me, and the boys wasted $80?. Geez, Gotta work Grumpy,Doc, Bashful,Sneezy, and Sleepy all the harder now. OK, guys back to soldering those injectors together???. Bruce > >Check this scam out!!!! Geez! Pay $10 to ask this guy >if your car is Y2k safe. Gimmie a break. I wonder how >many poor souls will fall for this. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Automotive Diagnostics, Inc <87193349@xxx.com> >To: Friend@xxx.com> >Date: Thursday, January 21, 1999 9:52 PM >Subject: Is your car Y2K Ready? > >>IS YOUR CAR Y2K SAFE? >> FIND OUT! >> $9.95 >>http://www.adiauto.com > > > ------------------------------ From: Charles Brooks Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:09:20 -0500 Subject: Re: injector impedance The Ford injectors will fit GM applications? Has anyone actually tested this on a TPI system? Charles Brooks David Askren wrote: > > Ya can buy Ford 24lbs injectors for about 250.00. just don't tell die hard > > gm people this- gets them all tweaked. > > > > Vance > > Summit has them in the latest catalog from Ford Motorsport > Set of eight 19lb/hr $193 > 24lb/hr $199 > 30lb/hr $208 > 36lb/hr $369 > Dave ------------------------------ From: Pat Ford Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:12:05 -0500 Subject: water injection But preturbo Hi There Sorry to dig up the same old thread but has anyone tried water injection in the exhaust?? correct me if I'm wrong but if you injected water ( not much) it turns into steam ( around 700X volume increase { foggy where i got that number}) and the turbo should spool up pretty fast. I don't see this as a full time thing but as a way to fight turbo lag btw I've learned alot lurking here Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ From: "Guenther,Max" Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:18:30 -0500 Subject: RE: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths >On Jan 21, 11:49pm, James Ballenger wrote: >Great scott! Please keep me up-to-date on this project. I want to FI a big >Poncho myself when I have the time to do the same. > >--andrew > >I'd really rather have a Buick. I was thinking a Buick 455 and two GM TBI on > a dual quad intake. Just make some adapters from four bbl to TBI's and GM >HEI's are still available for that engine (junk yard). Now for the >PROM........... >Max > ------------------------------ From: "BUTLER, Tom" Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:39:00 -0400 Subject: RE: water injection But preturbo Don't know if they still do but B-52's used to inject water into their exhaust on take-off for a much needed boost when fully laden. > -----Original Message----- > From: Pat Ford [SMTP:pford@xxx.com] > Sent: Friday, January 22, 1999 4:12 PM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: water injection But preturbo > > Hi There > Sorry to dig up the same old thread but has anyone tried water injection > in the exhaust?? correct me if I'm wrong but if you injected water ( not > much) it turns into steam ( around 700X volume increase { foggy where i > got that number}) and the turbo should spool up pretty fast. I don't see > this as a full time thing but as a way to fight turbo lag > > btw I've learned alot lurking here > > Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com > QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com > (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews > (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:41:31 -0500 Subject: Re: injector impedance - -----Original Message----- From: Charles Brooks To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 3:21 PM Subject: Re: injector impedance Dun all the time. Some designs vary but the O-Ring seals wind up in the right place Bruce >The Ford injectors will fit GM applications? Has anyone actually tested this on >a TPI system? > > >Charles Brooks > >David Askren wrote: > >> > Ya can buy Ford 24lbs injectors for about 250.00. just don't tell die hard >> > gm people this- gets them all tweaked. >> > >> > Vance >> >> Summit has them in the latest catalog from Ford Motorsport >> Set of eight 19lb/hr $193 >> 24lb/hr $199 >> 30lb/hr $208 >> 36lb/hr $369 >> Dave > ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 20:40:50 +0000 Subject: Re: Is your car Y2K Ready? > that 98% of the cars are OK but some luxury cars (GM) (like Caddy) report > the date to test equipment during diagnostics... apparently this is kept > in the "Body Control Module"- and will need some sort of upgrade when Y2K > rolls around... There are a lot of things that won't be y2k compliant, and I would feel comfortable agreeing that some luxury cars have dates buried in their code somewhere for logging purposes. But in reality, if the date is wrong, does the car not function? Naaaah. Just log the wrong date. Me, I could live with that ! - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.xephic.dynip.com 1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental 1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab 2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:49:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Prom dates, er codes - -----Original Message----- From: Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com> To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 12:09 PM Subject: RE: Prom dates, er codes 95 Man tranny 3.4 camemo. Bruce >Could I bother you for some info on a 16196397 BKWX ECM it has was looks >like a small cal pak 16171749 and under this number 1034148. It is a >under hood ECM and has an access door for the calpak. The guy that gave it >to me thinks it is off of a 96 camaro R/S with a V6. Thanks for the help >Don > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bruce Plecan [SMTP:nacelp@xxx.net] >> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 1999 11:01 PM >> To: DIY_EFI >> Subject: Prom dates, er codes >> >> As I understand proms, a 27C128, and 27128A are functionally >> the same, meaning they share CMOS technology. >> Anything else may have a different programming voltage, and >> maybe of a slower operating speed??.. >> >> On the few 512 proms I've seen they have all been "27512s", with >> no As or Cs?. The ""s are cause I not absolutely sure of that. >> Thanks Again reference to gm type memcals >> Bruce > ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 20:42:56 +0000 Subject: Re: water injection But preturbo > in the exhaust?? correct me if I'm wrong but if you injected water ( not > much) it turns into steam ( around 700X volume increase { foggy where i Bob the computer guy suggested it, I tried it, and under certain circumstances, you get more boost. If, and only if the headers are extremely hot, as in lots of high power usage at high RPMs. Once the headers cool off (i.e. idling for a while), there seems to be no effect, and you crack your headers. Did this successfully. Stainless headers didn't crack though, once we upgraded. - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.xephic.dynip.com 1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental 1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab 2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:52:13 -0500 Subject: Re: water injection But preturbo - -----Original Message----- From: Pat Ford To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 3:23 PM Subject: water injection But preturbo Hmm, makes ya wonder, don't it... Bruce >Hi There > Sorry to dig up the same old thread but has anyone tried water injection >in the exhaust?? correct me if I'm wrong but if you injected water ( not >much) it turns into steam ( around 700X volume increase { foggy where i >got that number}) and the turbo should spool up pretty fast. I don't see >this as a full time thing but as a way to fight turbo lag > >btw I've learned alot lurking here > >Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com >QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com >(613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews >(613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 > ------------------------------ From: "Tom Parker" Date: 23 Jan 99 10:07:34 +1200 Subject: Re: FW: Electronic timing advance HADJIASLANIS ARIS 1260 800 wrote: >after following your inputs and using the web as much as I could, I have >now found and ordered a XR 700 ignition unit from Crane Cams which WILL I have one of these in my Mini, they are pritty good. >My original posting to which you replied most kindly was ... >"... 3. Feed the optical pick up output to a digital advance / retard >unit >implementing a simple, programmable advance curve capable of at least 16 >sites. >4. Optionally add an imput for a detonation sensor to provide a few >degrees of detonation induced retard. >5. The unit should just provide an output emulating a normal contact >breaker, to drive a separate high energy electronic ignition unit >(already fitted in my car)...." I am attempting to build the system that is on the diy_efi web page. However, due to lack of funds, and the fact that my brakes don't work right, I haven't made much progress beyond deciding to use an off the shelf single board computer and a custom interface board to go with it. I plan to extend the design to take note of a MAP sensor, maybe a TPS sensor and maybe also a knock sensor. I looked at the picknpoke design (this is the kit that Jaycar in australia sell). It has a two stage advance curve. You can specify the steepness of the advance in two lines. It doesn't have a very good (IMO) vacuume advance system, and the biggest problem is that you can't change the program without reverse engineering it. Having said that, it is cheap, and it is available now. - -- Tom Parker - tparker@xxx.nz - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ ------------------------------ From: Ken Kelly Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:08:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Service Manual I bought my 96 F-body Service manuals used from: Dan Brower factorya@xxx.com It worked well for me and cost about half the factory price. Ken Guenther,Max wrote: > > Does anybody have a factory service manual for a 90' vette for sale? I > just got the ECM from one need the book. Checked the price of a new > >book(from Hayes)! Ouch. ------------------------------ From: "Peter Fenske" Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:35:55 -0800 Subject: Re: injector impedance Hi Charles Yep am running Ford Motorsport 30LB injectors on my vette. Work great. Actually they are bosch injectors. Only small descrepancy is that they measure bout 14 ohms versus gm multecs measure 16 ohms.. No muss :peter Charles Brooks on 01/22/99 12:09:20 PM Please respond to diy_efi@xxx.edu To: diy_efi@xxx.edu cc: (bcc: Peter Fenske/BCIT) Subject: Re: injector impedance The Ford injectors will fit GM applications? Has anyone actually tested this on a TPI system? Charles Brooks David Askren wrote: > > Ya can buy Ford 24lbs injectors for about 250.00. just don't tell die hard > > gm people this- gets them all tweaked. > > > > Vance > > Summit has them in the latest catalog from Ford Motorsport > Set of eight 19lb/hr $193 > 24lb/hr $199 > 30lb/hr $208 > 36lb/hr $369 > Dave ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #52 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".