BOSCH SUUTTIMET, Bosch Fuel-Injectors

DIY_EFI Digest Friday, 22 January 1999 Volume 04 : Number 053 In this issue: EFI on a big block Re: Is your car Y2K Ready? Re: FW: Electronic timing advance Re: dual spray injectors Re: dual spray injectors Those Holden Bins I uploaded are N.G. RE: Prom dates, er codes Re: FW: Electronic timing advance Re: dual spray injectors Re: Is your car Y2K Ready? Re: Ford injector s Re: dual spray injectors Re: Those Holden Bins I uploaded are N.G. Re: Carbon pistons?. Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Re: Av gas(was: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths) Bosch Injector List Re: Another Non EFI Question Re: injector impedance Re: dual spray injectors Creeping nonsense Re: FW: Electronic timing advance Re: dual spray injectors Re: Another Non EFI Question Re: water injection But preturbo RE: water injection But preturbo Re: FW: Electronic timing advance Re: dual spray injectors Re: FW: Electronic timing advance Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Pitts Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:47:20 -0500 Subject: EFI on a big block It's been done. Jim Haas in Miami has a fuel injected and stroked Buick GS 455. The last time I saw it, he was using a DFI. I wouldn't be surprised if he's using a FelPro now. His e-mail is Buick528@xxx.com if you want to get the low-down on the setup. - -Mike - -----Original Message----- >I'd really rather have a Buick. I was thinking a Buick 455 and two GM TBI on > a dual quad intake. Just make some adapters from four bbl to TBI's and GM >HEI's are still available for that engine (junk yard). Now for the >PROM........... >Max ------------------------------ From: Teller.John@xxx.com Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:45:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Is your car Y2K Ready? No problem unless the car computer outsmarts itself when it detects time going backwards (99-00) and decides its real time clock is defective. The results from this could be either a Check Engine Soon light (with Replace ECU code stored) to resetting the of RTC time to something it thinks is reasonable, like 01/01/94 00:00:00 (as does the Award BIOS in my cheap Taiwanese Pentium when the rollover occurs). Frederic Breitwieser on 01/22/99 03:40:50 PM Please respond to diy_efi@xxx.edu To: diy_efi@xxx.edu cc: (bcc: John Teller/ORBVA) Subject: Re: Is your car Y2K Ready? There are a lot of things that won't be y2k compliant, and I would feel comfortable agreeing that some luxury cars have dates buried in their code somewhere for logging purposes. But in reality, if the date is wrong, does the car not function? Naaaah. Just log the wrong date. Me, I could live with that ! ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:53:19 -0500 Subject: Re: FW: Electronic timing advance - -----Original Message----- From: Tom Parker To: HADJIASLANIS ARIS 1260 800 Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 4:28 PM Subject: Re: FW: Electronic timing advance Just as a minor point. The Italians have many many cars that get along just fine without using a vac advance. While USA/Eng/Asian have relied on them for years, not so from across the other ocean. And how many motorcycles bother with a vac advance?. While a knock sensor sounds nice, a properly tuned would only need it when junk gas is bought. They can also lure the owner into a false security. Which I'm sad to say I'm finding happening way to often. With a knock sensor no audible ping, so granny saves a few pennies here and there on gas, but anytime she gets on it the timing retards, and carbon builds up unessecarily. Enough builds, and eventually the little flakes break off and hold an exhaust valve just slightly off it's seat. Valve runs too hot, and burns. So granny never heard that she should have been running better gas, since there was no ping, and now at 50K needs a valve job. If ya feel the need for running a KS, I'd strongly recommend a visual/ audible alert when it's triggered. Bruce >HADJIASLANIS ARIS 1260 800 wrote: > >>after following your inputs and using the web as much as I could, I have >>now found and ordered a XR 700 ignition unit from Crane Cams which WILL > >I have one of these in my Mini, they are pritty good. > >>My original posting to which you replied most kindly was ... >>"... 3. Feed the optical pick up output to a digital advance / retard >>unit >>implementing a simple, programmable advance curve capable of at least 16 >>sites. >>4. Optionally add an imput for a detonation sensor to provide a few >>degrees of detonation induced retard. >>5. The unit should just provide an output emulating a normal contact >>breaker, to drive a separate high energy electronic ignition unit >>(already fitted in my car)...." > >I am attempting to build the system that is on the diy_efi web page. However, >due to lack of funds, and the fact that my brakes don't work right, I haven't >made much progress beyond deciding to use an off the shelf single board >computer and a custom interface board to go with it. > >I plan to extend the design to take note of a MAP sensor, maybe a TPS sensor >and maybe also a knock sensor. > >I looked at the picknpoke design (this is the kit that Jaycar in australia >sell). It has a two stage advance curve. You can specify the steepness of the >advance in two lines. It doesn't have a very good (IMO) vacuume advance >system, and the biggest problem is that you can't change the program without >reverse engineering it. > >Having said that, it is cheap, and it is available now. > >-- >Tom Parker - tparker@xxx.nz > - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ > ------------------------------ From: "Walter Sherwin" Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:53:43 -0800 Subject: Re: dual spray injectors Gary, would it be possible to redirect the flow even slightly with a deflector, without creating globs of fuel? What about a deflector with holes and patterns and such? I am just wondering aloud because it would be nice to find a way to deflect fuel into a more favourable trajectory when "EFI'ing" non EFI manifolds. Anybody thoughts? Thanks; Walt. - -----Original Message----- From: Gary Derian To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 9:14 AM Subject: Re: dual spray injectors >A deflector will collect the spray into a few big drops. > >Gary Derian > >>Hi - I am just returning to the list; I was previously a lurker here but >other interests got in the way for a while. >> >>Does anyone know where I can find some injectors that spray two cones? >>Alternately, how about an injector where the spray is at a small (15 >degree) angle relative to the body? >>Or, in a perfect world, one that does both? (Two cones, at an angle). >>Worst case, I can try to work with some sort of deflector. >> >>I am working on a project to deliver fuel at both valves on a multi-valve >head. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Ord > ------------------------------ From: Chaasman@xxx.com Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:55:54 EST Subject: Re: dual spray injectors In a message dated 1/22/99 11:06:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, ord@xxx.ca writes: > > Hi - I am just returning to the list; I was previously a lurker here but > other interests got in the way for a while. > > Does anyone know where I can find some injectors that spray two cones? > Alternately, how about an injector where the spray is at a small (15 degree) > angle relative to the body? > Or, in a perfect world, one that does both? (Two cones, at an angle). > Worst case, I can try to work with some sort of deflector. > > I am working on a project to deliver fuel at both valves on a multi-valve > head. > > Thanks, > > Ord > Try a '96ish Tercel for "dual" cones... Carl ------------------------------ From: "Ross Myers" Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:23:20 +1100 Subject: Those Holden Bins I uploaded are N.G. Oops, seems I may have stuffed up with some previously uploaded Bins, I thought they were all 27256, seems the auto trans ones must be 27512's. This would include - BLCB, BWFU, and BWCS9976. Sorry if this has caused any drama's for anybody, I'm pretty sure the Manual Bins are O.K as the checksum works. I'll have to re-read the others I uploaded, in the mean time the BLCC5074.BIN Auto Bin I recently uploaded should be 100% O.K. Check out from $4660 onwards, plain text!!!. Bye Ross ------------------------------ From: Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:13:34 -0600 Subject: RE: Prom dates, er codes Thanks for your help Don > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce Plecan [SMTP:nacelp@xxx.net] > Sent: Friday, January 22, 1999 2:49 PM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: Prom dates, er codes > > > > > > > > ---Original Message----- > From: Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com> > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 12:09 PM > Subject: RE: Prom dates, er codes > > > 95 Man tranny 3.4 camemo. > Bruce > > > >Could I bother you for some info on a 16196397 BKWX ECM it has was > looks > >like a small cal pak 16171749 and under this number 1034148. It is a > >under hood ECM and has an access door for the calpak. The guy that gave > it > >to me thinks it is off of a 96 camaro R/S with a V6. Thanks for the > help > >Don > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Bruce Plecan [SMTP:nacelp@xxx.net] > >> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 1999 11:01 PM > >> To: DIY_EFI > >> Subject: Prom dates, er codes > >> > >> As I understand proms, a 27C128, and 27128A are functionally > >> the same, meaning they share CMOS technology. > >> Anything else may have a different programming voltage, and > >> maybe of a slower operating speed??.. > >> > >> On the few 512 proms I've seen they have all been "27512s", with > >> no As or Cs?. The ""s are cause I not absolutely sure of that. > >> Thanks Again reference to gm type memcals > >> Bruce > > ------------------------------ From: TMead17327@xxx.com Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:18:02 EST Subject: Re: FW: Electronic timing advance "So granny never heard that she should have been running better gas, since there was no ping" Granny can't hear very well, anyway! Tommy TMead17327@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: "Gary Derian" Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:32:39 -0500 Subject: Re: dual spray injectors I don't think so. Think about spraying your hand with a garden hose nozzle. Any drop that hits the deflector will glob up. Like an oil pan windage tray. I suppose at some velocity the drops could bounce back off. Anyone else? Gary Derian >Gary, would it be possible to redirect the flow even slightly with a >deflector, without creating globs of fuel? What about a deflector with >holes and patterns and such? I am just wondering aloud because it would be >nice to find a way to deflect fuel into a more favourable trajectory when >"EFI'ing" non EFI manifolds. Anybody thoughts? > >Thanks; >Walt. > > >>A deflector will collect the spray into a few big drops. >> >>Gary Derian >> >>>Hi - I am just returning to the list; I was previously a lurker here but >>other interests got in the way for a while. >>> >>>Does anyone know where I can find some injectors that spray two cones? >>>Alternately, how about an injector where the spray is at a small (15 >>degree) angle relative to the body? >>>Or, in a perfect world, one that does both? (Two cones, at an angle). >>>Worst case, I can try to work with some sort of deflector. >>> >>>I am working on a project to deliver fuel at both valves on a multi-valve >>head. >>> >>>Thanks, >>> >>>Ord >> ------------------------------ From: steve ravet Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:32:29 -0600 Subject: Re: Is your car Y2K Ready? Bruce Plecan wrote: > You mean me, and the boys wasted $80?. Geez, > Gotta work Grumpy,Doc, Bashful,Sneezy, and Sleepy all > the harder now. > OK, guys back to soldering those injectors together???. > Bruce They just had me send them a picture of my carb. They'll get back to me in two weeks and let me know if I have anything to worry about. - --steve ------------------------------ From: Charles Brooks Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:37:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Ford injector s I just found the page, I think I'm going to pick up a set of 30Lb injectors. At $208, it's less than half the price of the GM injectors!! Charles Brooks ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:04:55 -0500 Subject: Re: dual spray injectors - -----Original Message----- From: Gary Derian To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 5:46 PM Subject: Re: dual spray injectors Blowing atomized fuel at a flat wall has very little penalty, to nice pretty ports. It sounds crazy but shearing fuel/air, and flat walls aint that bad. Depending on your purpose, might due just as well letting the fuel take it's own course. Blowing the fuel against a deflector, may do exactly the opposite of what you'd expect. Intake air is very dynamic. Bruce >I don't think so. Think about spraying your hand with a garden hose nozzle. >Any drop that hits the deflector will glob up. Like an oil pan windage >tray. I suppose at some velocity the drops could bounce back off. Anyone >else? > >Gary Derian > > >>Gary, would it be possible to redirect the flow even slightly with a >>deflector, without creating globs of fuel? What about a deflector with >>holes and patterns and such? I am just wondering aloud because it would be >>nice to find a way to deflect fuel into a more favourable trajectory when >>"EFI'ing" non EFI manifolds. Anybody thoughts? >> >>Thanks; >>Walt. >> >> >>>A deflector will collect the spray into a few big drops. >>> >>>Gary Derian >>> >>>>Hi - I am just returning to the list; I was previously a lurker here but >>>other interests got in the way for a while. >>>> >>>>Does anyone know where I can find some injectors that spray two cones? >>>>Alternately, how about an injector where the spray is at a small (15 >>>degree) angle relative to the body? >>>>Or, in a perfect world, one that does both? (Two cones, at an angle). >>>>Worst case, I can try to work with some sort of deflector. >>>> >>>>I am working on a project to deliver fuel at both valves on a multi-valve >>>head. >>>> >>>>Thanks, >>>> >>>>Ord >>> > ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:11:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Those Holden Bins I uploaded are N.G. - -----Original Message----- From: Ross Myers To: EFI List Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 5:21 PM Subject: Those Holden Bins I uploaded are N.G. It's conforting to see others qualify for CSHs >g< Cheers Bruce >Oops, seems I may have stuffed up with some previously uploaded Bins, I >thought they were all 27256, seems the auto trans ones must be 27512's. > >This would include - BLCB, BWFU, and BWCS9976. Sorry if this has caused >any drama's for anybody, I'm pretty sure the Manual Bins are O.K as the >checksum works. > >I'll have to re-read the others I uploaded, in the mean time the >BLCC5074.BIN Auto Bin I recently uploaded should be 100% O.K. > >Check out from $4660 onwards, plain text!!!. > >Bye > >Ross > > ------------------------------ From: Roger Heflin Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:28:41 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Carbon pistons?. On Fri, 22 Jan 1999, Bruce Plecan wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Benjamin Marsh > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > Cc: DIY_EFI > Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 8:20 AM > Subject: Re: Carbon pistons?. > > Key word would normally be Carbon Fiber, what messes that up is > licensed by NASA. > Take the zip code of somewhere in LA, 2x and add your next three > birthdays ages to it. That should al least cover one,,,, > Bruce > > I don't think those pistons are carbon fiber. They would almost have to be a single cast piece of some sort. I don't know how you would do that with carbon, but that must be it. Carbon fiber work is pretty common (there is actually a operating plant about 200-300 meters away from where I work making large amounts of carbon fiber). I guess they could have a process for putting together carbon fibre and then running some process against it to solidify it together. I expect we are talking about thousands per piston though, but they would be nitrous/blower/knock proof. Roger ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:40:42 -0700 Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths >Greg Hermann wrote: > >> There are lots of folks in the industry working on developing ways to make >> efi do these things better. I am working on the same thing as a hobby. When >> I get an engine built, and get some test results, I will share them. But >> some money is definitely going where my mouth is!!! That is so because I >> believe that the above outline of the situation is sound >> engineering/science and I want a better performing engine(s). > > What about the two injector per cylinder arrangement of some company whose >name I have forgotten. IIRC, they had the first injector fire into the back of >the second injector. At this point compressed air was shot in to atomize and >build up pressure. Then the second injector shot a mixture in which 80% or >more was smaller than 10 microns. Apparently they are already building marine >engines and have deals going with a few auto companies. Anybody remember that >article or their website? Btw, I am new here and will be working on a project >to make a sefi 400/455 Pontiac, but don't have a damned clue how to so any help >or suggestions would be great. > >James Ballenger I Think you are talking about Orbital, their stuff is for direct, in cylinder injection. Mercury Marine'sa DFI 200 motor uses Orbital stuff. Could also be Splitcycle. Both from Oz. Greg ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:55:05 -0500 Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths - -----Original Message----- From: Mike Brown To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 9:40 AM Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths I hope you plan on keeping "us" up to date. Sounds really interesting. Bruce >Bruce, This system is in >my '34 coupe. Not the best test bed for rainy days.... too much >cleaning afterwards. Nothing dramatic so far though. I didn't even Sometimes it would run real >good. The next time a little off and you would have to correct for it. >Then the next time it was a little off the other way and you would have >to move the mixture back to where it was before. >mike ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:43:25 -0700 Subject: Re: Av gas(was: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths) >In Canada it's illegal to put anywhere but into a plane - No offense, but doncha love creeping socialism--or is it socialist creeps??? :-) can't even buy >it to use in a race-car. Regards, Greg ------------------------------ From: PBRUNN@xxx.com Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:01:56 EST Subject: Bosch Injector List This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_917049726_boundary Content-ID: <0_917049726@xxx.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII A list of bosch injectors and flow rates hope it helps philipp - --part0_917049726_boundary Content-ID: <0_917049726@xxx.2> Content-type: text/html; name="SUUTIN.HTM" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Content-disposition: inline =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D BOSCH SUUTTIMET, Bosch Fuel-Injectors=0D =0D =0D =0D

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Eräiden Bosch suuttimien suihkutusmäärät

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                                 Moottori missä ko. suutinta=0D
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 0 280 150 001  265 cm3/min=0D
 0 280 150 002  265 cm3/min=0D
 0 280 150 003  380 cm3/min=0D
 0 280 150 009  265 cm3/min=0D
 0 280 155 009  346 cm3/min      Saab Turbo=0D
 0 280 150 015  380 cm3/min=0D
 0 280 150 024  380 cm3/min      Volvo B30E=0D
 0 280 150 026  380 cm3/min=0D
 0 280 150 036  380 cm3/min      MB 4.5l=0D
 0 280 150 041  480 cm3/min      MB 6.9l V8 / Cadillac=0D
 0 280 150 043  380 cm3/min      BMW=0D
 0 280 150 100  185 cm3/min=0D
 0 280 150 121  178 cm3/min=0D
 B 280 410 144  434 cm3/min      Bosch R-SPORT=0D
 0 280 150 200  300 cm3/min      BMW=0D
 0 280 150 201  236 cm3/min=0D
 0 280 150 203  185 cm3/min=0D
 0 280 150 208  133 cm3/min=0D
 0 280 150 209  176 cm3/min      Volvo B200-B230=0D
 0 280 150 211  146 cm3/min=0D
 0 280 150 335  300 cm3/min      Volvo B230 turbo=0D
 0 280 150 400  437 cm3/min      Ford 4.5l=0D
 0 280 150 401  437 cm3/min      Ford=0D
 0 280 150 402  338 cm3/min      Ford=0D
 0 280 150 403  503 cm3/min      Ford=0D
 0 280 150 614  189 cm3/min=0D
 0 280 150 704  170 cm3/min=0D
 0 280 150 706  214 cm3/min      250kPa=0D
 0 180 150 712  214 cm3/min      250kPa Saab Turbo 2.3l=0D
 0 280 150 715  149 cm3/min=0D
 0 280 150 716  134 cm3/min=0D
 0 280 150 762  214 cm3/min      Volvo B230F=0D
 0 280 150 802  284 cm3/min      Volvo B200 turbo, Renault J7R turbo=0D
 0 280 150 804  337 cm3/min      Peugeot 505T=0D
 0 180 150 811  298 cm3/min      3.5kPa Porsche Turbo 944=0D
 0 280 150 814  384 cm3/min=0D
 0 280 150 834  397 cm3/min=0D
 0 280 150 835  397 cm3/min      Chrysler=0D
 0 180 150 951  346 cm3/min      Porsche Turbo=0D
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 table in .PDF -format!<=
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 7 * 300(kW) / 4 =3D 525 cm3/min=0D
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        - lambda n. 0.85-0.9=0D
        - suuttimen aukiolo n. 90%=0D
        - polttoaineen tiheys n. 0.75=0D
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