DIY_EFI Digest Sunday, 24 January 1999 Volume 04 : Number 056 In this issue: Re: Throttle Body sources Re: SpeedBrain Re: injector impedance Re: 1.8 TBI and the 7747 Re: 1.8 TBI and the 7747 RE: Throttle Body sources Re: PROMs and Copyrights... Re: heated O2 sensor circuit question Re: Throttle Body sources PROMs and Copyrights... carb and porting heads Re: Carbon pistons?. Re: Av gas Re: PROMs and Copyrights... See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AL8001@xxx.com Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 20:40:43 EST Subject: Re: Throttle Body sources In a message dated 99-01-23 14:58:32 EST, you write: >Did GM use any other single injector TBIs on any motors smaller than the >2.5, that still had the standard TPS, and IAC in it... > >thanks Jason > > GM used in on the 1.8/ 2.0 Sunbird Overhead cam. The 2.0/2.2 Cavalire engine. Harold ------------------------------ From: Charles Brooks Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 20:44:25 -0500 Subject: Re: SpeedBrain I checked out the site, does the Speed Brain come with the sensors and wiring harness? You state that it is an additional cost for a couple of the other systems listed in the comparison. Also when will a similar product be available for GM applications? Charles Brooks Auburn Performance Equipment wrote: > I wanted to let you all know, for those of you that do not, that we > have a released a high performance replacement for the Ford EEC- > IV. Current models replace the stock computer systems for 89-95 > 5.0 Mustangs. > > It is a high performance computer system that, plugs right in, is fully > tunable, datalogs, and will rev to 10k. ------------------------------ From: Charles Brooks Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 21:07:58 -0500 Subject: Re: injector impedance Thanks, one other list member has them in his Corvette. I think that's the route I'm going to take. Charles Brooks Vance Rose wrote: > > > have set of 24lbs in pu. 383 tpi cal smogg legal. > > Vance ------------------------------ From: ECMnut@xxx.com Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 23:10:31 EST Subject: Re: 1.8 TBI and the 7747 In a message dated 1/23/99 6:29:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, nacelp@xxx.net writes: > > Oh, and what 4 cyl application used a 747?. > Bruce None.. Mike V ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 23:42:53 -0500 Subject: Re: 1.8 TBI and the 7747 I knew, you knew that, well maybe a couple other guys,do Bruce >> Oh, and what 4 cyl application used a 747?. >> Bruce >None.. >Mike V ------------------------------ From: "Pete Datcuk" Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 00:42:30 -0500 Subject: RE: Throttle Body sources I happen to have one if you are interested. Its been sitting for awhile, but it worked when the engine was pulled.. Pete Datcuk Mechanical Engineer Sewell, NJ '87 Fiero, some day to be Northstar'ed :-) Quite a few credits away from that cone shaped hat.... > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of Jason Weir > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 1999 2:55 PM > To: DIY_EFI Discussion Group > Subject: Throttle Body sources > > > I am looking for a source for a GM throttle body used on the 2.5 4 cyl ------------------------------ From: xxalexx@xxx.com Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 00:53:45 +0000 Subject: Re: PROMs and Copyrights... > I know in the big scheme of things that this is really pretty small potatoes > but it has sorta bugged me for a bit. > > Any opinions? Any knowledge? > I was looking at the copyright site yesterday, to see about copyrighting some software, you have to submitt up to 50 pages of source code. There is another site were you can search for copyrights. I wonder who can look at the source code. alex ------------------------------ From: xxalexx@xxx.com Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 00:53:45 +0000 Subject: Re: heated O2 sensor circuit question > I plan on relocating my O2 sensor further down into the header since the > original spot reads off only 2 of the 4 cylinders. Thing is, the > original sensor is a single wire, and I think I'd need a heated one for > the new location. > Any idea how to wire the heater circuit? Is it safe to wire the circuit > to a switched (engine on) power source or was the heaer designed to shut > off once it reaches operating temp? > wire to key on with fuse, keep wires away from driveshaft. alex ------------------------------ From: WATCHmeDRV@xxx.com Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 00:54:26 EST Subject: Re: Throttle Body sources ------------------------------ From: "Jennifer and Brock Fraser" Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 00:08:32 -0600 Subject: PROMs and Copyrights... >I've long suspected that companies like G-Force, Dinan, Hypertech, ADS, JET >et al cannot possibly all have agreements with all of the car companies >whose PROMs they tweak...or do they? Somehow it seems unlikely that GM or >BMW or Volkswagen would disclose to them technical information about their >systems and what to modify. But how else would, say, Hypertech come out with >the Hypertech programmer for LT1s without such insider information so soon >after the new cars ('Vette, Impala SS etc) were released? > >I know in the big scheme of things that this is really pretty small potatoes >but it has sorta bugged me for a bit. > >Any opinions? Any knowledge? I can tell you (as a past Hypertech employee) that copying the stock binary, making changes, and then selling it as your own work is NOT illegal. This has been a legal issue of long debate. Once the binary is modified, it is no longer copyrighted material. Re-selling of non-modified binaries IS illegal, however. To answer your question directly, it would be my guess that to display, dissect, explain, or otherwise USE the stock image isn't illegal, but to sell it would be. There's no such thing as plagiarism on binary data... modify just a byte, and then you can call it your own. I'm sure things get more complicated when you deal with commercial software that has user interfaces and so forth... then the images and interface could be protected, I'd assume. Otherwise, you would see hack programs like "Microsoftish Words" selling for 10 cents on the dollar of the original program, with all the functionality. And, Hypertech doesn't get any "inside information" from the manufacturers. Time to market on new factory releases is only possible by purchasing the first car in town of that model, getting started immediately, and working hard. Unforeseen technical challenges on selected models will always hurt time to market, of course. - -Brock ------------------------------ From: Carmine Nicoletta Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 00:49:48 -0600 Subject: carb and porting heads I'm contemplating porting the cylinder heads of my 305 (84 TA 5.0L HO engine, 4bl Quadrajet carb). What effect would this have on the stock settings for the carb? Would the ECM PROM need to be changed? Any pointer would be appreciated. Thanks. Carmine ------------------------------ From: Jim Davies Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 22:52:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Carbon pistons?. On Fri, 22 Jan 1999, Bruce Plecan wrote: > Key word would normally be Carbon Fiber, what messes that up is > licensed by NASA. > > >Anyone have any idea what a set of these things would cost? > >:P > >Ben An interesting patent is 4683809, available from IBM {pictures, text as a graphic] and the PTO [text in ascII] a carbon-carbon piston does not need rings because of negligable [1/40 of Al] heat expansion. 4546669 covers a fiber-reinforced synthetic con rod. ------------------------------ From: Doug Bazarnic Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 00:24:41 -0700 Subject: Re: Av gas I use nothing but AVGAS 100LL fuel in my '85 Corvette and on occasion in my supercharged truck for towing in the summer. Think of it as Turbo Blue, but much cheaper! ($1.56 a gallon) When running it in your computer controller car, make sure you use a lead tolerant O2 sensor. Otherwise a brand new non-lead tolerant 02 sesonr will die in just under 1 tank of gas. (I went thru a few of them before my lead tollerant o2 sensor arrived) I run AVGAS in the Vette because of my high 12.4 compression. Mix that with 110+ degree days, and NO pump gas will work. Planes use AVGAS for another reason -- because they are often at 100% power more often and for longer durations than any street car engine. How often do you cruise at 75% throttle on the street? :) One other point... AVGAS octane rating is derived differently than pump gas. It's octane numbers are derived from the J3 + J4 / 2 method, whereas pump gas is Research + Motor / 2. I haven't found any source that explains what the j3 and j4 method are and how they compare to the R+M/2 method. Point number two: There are no plans to get rid of leaded fuel for airplanes. Planes made to this day require leaded fuel for valve sealing and anti-detonation properties. Unlike cars, planes tend to stay in service for many many decades. People that have problems running AVGAS in vehicles must take note that it is less dense and fuel mixture curves must be adjusted. Those with 02 sensors need not worry. :) AVGAS also does not idle well when it's cold out. You'd be surprised how light a 5 gallon can is. The downside to AVGAS is the stink! :) Doug Bazarnic http://www.primenet.com/~dougb/vette.html 85 Vette 383 Auto 3.73 gears 407.6 HP & 397.7 ft/lbs @ rear wheels on AVGAS 11.887 @xxx.24 mph ------------------------------ From: trinity@xxx.net (Mike) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 02:50:05 -0500 Subject: Re: PROMs and Copyrights... > >I can tell you (as a past Hypertech employee) that copying the stock binary, >making changes, and then selling it as your own work is NOT illegal. This >has been a legal issue of long debate. Once the binary is modified, it is >no longer copyrighted material. Re-selling of non-modified binaries IS >illegal, however. > This makes sense. I figure if I bought the car, I bought all the firmware that came with it and I can do as I please with it, including showing it to the world for all to see, as long as I don't make a profit from it. Okay, so what about free-distribution then? If I buy a chip from ADS, make copies of it and then give them to friends with the same car, there must be some "illegality" in that since these guys are benefitting from ADS' expertise but ADS is getting nothing from it...even if I didn't make a profit from it. Basically, it's not my firmware to copy and distribute (freely or not), right? <*sigh*> Any lawyers on the list? > >And, Hypertech doesn't get any "inside information" from the manufacturers. >Time to market on new factory releases is only possible by purchasing the >first car in town of that model, getting started immediately, and working >hard. Unforeseen technical challenges on selected models will always hurt >time to market, of course. > I sorta figured GM wouldn't give/sell info to Hypertech. I guess I was thinking that since Hypertech is the only one doing a "Power Programmer" (or are there others now?) I figured they had an inside source for technical info that the others couldn't crack by brute force reverse engineering. - -- Mike ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #56 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. 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