DIY_EFI Digest Monday, 25 January 1999 Volume 04 : Number 059 In this issue: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Re: Resolution. Re: Delco calibration Re: Bosch ecu question SpeedBrain Re: PROMs and Copyrights... Re: PROMs and Copyrights... Switch Pitch TH-400 (was something else) Re: Resolution. Re: FW: Electronic timing advance Re: PROMs and Copyrights... Re: SpeedBrain Re: FW: Electronic timing advance Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Ramblings on P/B resricters Chip pack Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Re: EFI questions Re: PROMs and Copyrights... Re: Chip pack Re: Delco calibration Re: Switch Pitch TH-400 (was something else) RE: Delco calibration Crane Cams regular telephone number RE: FW: Electronic timing advance Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Non list-chasing ghosts. RE: Switch Pitch TH-400 (was something else) RE: Switch Pitch TH-400 (was something else) See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Geoff Richards" Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:08:32 +1100 Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths - ---------- > According to a service bulletin, the 3.8l engine suffers from carbon > accumulation on the back of the intake valve which significantly > reduces performance. How to remove this carbon ? Possible with the myriad of 'carbon blast' type of miracle cures, you know the cans of cleaners etc,run 'em through the engine while running or pull the heads? Geoff ------------------------------ From: db@xxx.au (Darryn Watson) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:47:47 GMT Subject: Re: Resolution. >There are plenty of instrument grade pressure transducers available, >Ashcroft, for one, with 0.25% full scale accuracy and better repeatability >than that, All you gotta do is know which counter to ask for them at, and >be prepared to pay for them. Your choice of 0-5V, 0-10V, or 4-20 ma output >signal. 4-20 ma is most popular signal output for industrial >instrumentation because of wiring open/short failures being so easily >detected with it. Also because its not affected the length of the wiring between sensor and whatever its hooked into, no volt drop to worry about Darryn ------------------------------ From: ECMnut@xxx.com Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 06:54:44 EST Subject: Re: Delco calibration In a message dated 1/24/99 11:40:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, tmatthew@xxx.com writes: > Can anyone look up the calibration APYU out of an 89 Formula 350? I'm > wondering if it's current, and does anyone have a PN so I could order > another CALPAC from GM? Anyone know what the 89 305 5 speed CALPAC GM part Tom, I can't find it in the OTC book... What VIN code is the Firebird? Mike V ------------------------------ From: John Andrianakis Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 06:38:37 +0200 Subject: Re: Bosch ecu question Tom Sharpe wrote: > > (off list) > > John Andrianakis wrote: > > > Most of the time I deal with Magneti Marelli ecus and some Weber. > > Hi John, > > I'm looking for a Magneti Marelli ECU to replace (upgrade) the one used in > my Edelbrock ProFlow and another to scavange parts from. It uses an HC11 w/ > 32K rom and 4 seq. injector drivers. I would like to find one with an HC12, > HC16, or 68332 and 8 injector outputs. > > Any ideas where I can find such an animal(s), ie. what cars use them? > > Thanks in advance. Tom Sharpe Unfortunately I havent come up a Magneti Marelli ecu with 8 injector outputs since 8cylinder cars are very rare in Greece(unreasonably high taxes on anything over 2000cc). I will look for one with the processors you specify and I will let you know. John Andrianakis. ------------------------------ From: "Auburn Performance Equipment" Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:33:59 -0500 Subject: SpeedBrain From: Charles Brooks Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 20:44:25 -0500 Subject: Re: SpeedBrain I checked out the site, does the Speed Brain come with the sensors and wiring harness? No, none are needed since we plug into the stock harness, using the ford conenctor adn use all the stock sensors already in place. > You state that it is an additional cost for a couple of the other systems listed in the comparison. Also when will a similar product be available for GM applications? We are planning them out now. Thanks, Matt ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ AUBURN PERFORMANCE EQUIPMENT Home of the world's fastest 4.6 Cobra! 1998 Winner 160mph class Big Bend Classic roadrace, Ft Stockton, TX 1998 Winner 160mph class Gamblers Run roadrace, Elko, NV 1998 Winner 165mph class Silverstate Classic roadrace, Ely, NV We just don't sell and install parts, we make them perform. ORDER LINE 1-508-752-7683 24 hr FAX LINE (508)752-5269 TECH LINE (508)797-9728 WEBSITE & ON-LINE CATALOG: http://www.tiac.net/users/goape/index.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ From: dave.williams@xxx.us (Dave Williams) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 06:23:00 -0500 Subject: Re: PROMs and Copyrights... - -> As far as copyright is concerned, my guess (IANAL etc.) is that it is - -> technically illegal to sell a chip containing modified GM code - it - -> would be a derivative work. Just changing a few bytes or tables - -> isn't sufficient... - -> - -> However, GM would be hard pressed to prove any actual damages. After - -> all, you need their hardware to run the code! They don't have to prove damages for copyright violation. All they have to do is prove you copied some nontrivial portion of their code. Under the new copyright laws, they don't even have to have a copyright notice in the code in order to press a case. ------------------------------ From: dave.williams@xxx.us (Dave Williams) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 06:43:00 -0500 Subject: Re: PROMs and Copyrights... - -> Camaro and Firebird - arguably the main carlines that involved any - -> aftermarket computer "chipping" at all. I think more Trans-Am buyers - -> will tweak their computers than, say, Park Avenue owners. Truck chips are very popular. More trucks out there than Camaros, too. - -> Chip modifications have been around for quite some time, since the - -> mid-80s at least and GM apparently showed no interest in all of that - -> time period to do anything about "hacked" PROMs. I should ask myself - -> "Why would they (or any carmaker for that matter?) all of a sudden - -> express an interest to stop hobby-hackers?" Same reason they no longer use socketed PROMs - the Fed. All it would take would be a memo from the EPA and the lawyers would start deciding which vendors to make 'examples' of. ==dave.williams@xxx.us====================================== I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm ------------------------------ From: "Gwyn Reedy" Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:42:38 -0500 Subject: Switch Pitch TH-400 (was something else) Coupla questions. Does any aftermarket vendor provide custom stall ratios on the variable pitch converters? What mechanism is used to control the pitch switch? Could that be adapted to allow control of the clutch in a locking converter? Gwyn Reedy Brandon, Florida mailto:mgr@xxx.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of Greg > Hermann > Sent: Sunday, January 24, 1999 10:50 PM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths > > > > > > >Was just thinking yesterday that the switch pitch converter should be > >connected to tcc control , and detent solenoid should remain manual > >control. BTW, 350 Buick HEI works, but must use drive gear from 455 > >points dizzy. > > Ahh--dangerous thoughts, and hardware that gets forgotten--Anybody know of > any experience racing with switch pitch TH-400's???? Or whether such an > idea ever got tried with turbo motors??? :-) (Like switching the pitch to > let it rev up into the boost QUICKLY???) > > Regards, Greg > > > >Shannen > > ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 06:50:11 -0700 Subject: Re: Resolution. >But, but, what about the filtering?. Doesn't that fly in the face >of needing absolutely accurate MAP sensing?. > **Notice the question mark, I'm asking. > This "filtering" is a funny animal, in so far as using larger ID/ >loner sensor lines can make a vast difference on some >applications, and I've always had better response with smaller >shorter lines. >Bruce There are strong fluctuations in MAP, size and frequency of fluctuations depends on design of motor. Ecu needs an average value to perform its fuel rate calcs. Sooo--you can filter between the motor and the sensor or between the sensor and the A/D converter or digitally after the A/D converter. (Or any combination you want of these.) If you do it on an analogue electrical basis between the sensor and the A/D converter, you would use an R/C network--and the math of different size/length tubes between the motor and the sensor, for doing it there, is virtually identical to that of an R/C network should you choose to do it electrically. All kinds of ways to accomplish the job digitally, if you choose to do it that way (look at knock sensors). If your sensor's response rate is not up to the frequency of the MAP fluctuations from the engine, you will HAVE to use some mechanical (connecting tube variations) filtering to avoid getting garbage output from the sensor. Regards, Greg > > more accurate input >>data, and that the auto mfgrs are not bloody likely to spend the money >>required to be any more accurate than they need to be in order to meet >>emissions regs with an average HP engine!! >> >>Real questions here are :"How many bits wide are the A/D converters in the >>ecu?" and "How many mapping points does the load/rpm matrix need to >>contain?" and "How many bits wide is the fuel rate calculation (and tables) >>in the ecu?" and ""What is the minimum time increment to injector pw which >>the ecu will implement?" and "How many bits wide does everything need to be >>in order to obtain the desired level of turndown to give your high HP >>engine decent street manners?" >> >>Staging injectors, and rising rate fuel pressure control are certainly a >>help, particularly if there are fuel rail pressure and temp inputs to the >>ecu for fuel rate corrections on the fly! >> >>Regards, Greg >> >> ------------------------------ From: rauscher@xxx.com Date: Mon, 25 Jan 99 08:57:18 -0500 Subject: Re: FW: Electronic timing advance To trigger a 555 directly from the ESC module, do this: a) Run 555 from 12v car power (same for ESC module) b) Place a 10K ohm resister from pin 2 (trig) of the 555 to +12v c) Output of ESC through a .01uf disc capacitor to pin 2 of the 555. This in effect, causes a short low going pulse on the trigger input of the 555 whenever the ESC output goes low. The ESC output normally sits at ~10volts, and pulses low for +-10-30msec depending upon the severity of the knock. Then as Bruce states below, run the 555 pulse duration long enough that you can see the LED light. Or, place a small piezo beeper on the 555 output for an audio indication. (Depending on the type of piezo, you may need another 555 enabled from the first, to create the tone freq). BobR. Who now has a 305 truck ESC module on the bench, trying to find out the how/what/why/where of this unit. > -----Original Message----- >rom: Charles Brooks >o: diy_efi@xxx.edu> >ate: Friday, January 22, 1999 7:36 PM >ubject: Re: FW: Electronic timing advance > >If your running a ESC Module, they have a diagram for a DIY one at the GN >Ttype >site, or just us a 339/any comparator to the input of the KS to the ecm, >have >it trigger a 555 as a monstable for a sec., and use it's output for a LED, >relay >etc.. Some of the GN Ttype vendors (ie ATR, I think) have an animal for >sale. > If your car doesn't have a ks then buy a matching ESC Module, and >matching knock sensor (well for gm's anyway). and wire it up >I think the bias voltage from the esc to the ecm is 7v. Set up the >comparator for 6, and then just a "filtered""real" knock will trigger it. > I have played mix, and match with them, and while there is some >difference for those having trouble reading plugs, any thing is better >than nothing. Like I'm currently using a v-8 ks with a 231 ESC Module >and for my combination it's perfect. >Bruce - -- ------------------------------ From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:10:52 -0500 Subject: Re: PROMs and Copyrights... Dave Williams wrote: > > -> I can tell you (as a past Hypertech employee) that copying the stock > -> binary, making changes, and then selling it as your own work is NOT > -> illegal. This has been a legal issue of long debate. Once the > -> binary is modified, it is no longer copyrighted material. Re-selling > -> of non-modified binaries IS illegal, however. > > By US law copying, modifying, and reselling code is a Federal crime. > Several states also have anti-hacking and anti-piracy laws that cover > this. > > Hypertech and others get away with their practices because the OEMs > have chosen, for whatever reasons, not to take them to court. There > aren't any Copyright Police looking around for violations; GM or Ford or > whoever has to set the ball rolling. > > Just because Hypertech and others are not being prosecuted doesn't make > what they're doing legal - all any OEM would have to do is file, and it > would an open-and-shut rubber stamp trial. There are ample precedents > on the subject of piracy of ROM code - IBM, Apple, and Phoenix BIOS all > filed suit against code pirates and won. > > I've discussed this subject with several chip vendors, who all seem to > engage in the same kind of wishful thinking as Hypertech. > > Personally, I don't think the chip vendors are hurting anyone, and by > some lights they might even be doing the OEMs a favor. But the law says > what the chip vendors are doing is unlawful and actionable, and > pretending it isn't is merely self delusion. > > ==dave.williams@xxx.us====================================== > I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? > my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? > =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm > What you buy when you buy something with code in it is a licence to use that code on the one device it is installed in. Some code suppliers (read pogrammers) specifically prohibit dissassembly of their code for ANY purpose. Now, IF you have a licence to use the code on your ECU / car, you have a licence to use it. If you modify it, as opposed to write new code (using none of the original), you are still bound by that licence - one ECU. You cannot sell the modified code. You cannot use it on another ECU. However, if someone else has an ecu with licenced code, charging to modify that licenced code for them could be construed as legal - assuming there was no prohibition on dissassembling that code. The only situation that allows reselling code is if you actually buy the rights to the program and are supplied by the programmer with source code. You then OWN the code, not just a licence to use the code. Even in these situations, sometimes you are given a limited licence to distribute the code, or to use it in your own product. For instance, true type fonts are licenced to word processor programmers for inclusion in there programs - and MS Windows is OEM licenced to comanies like IBM and Compaq for distribution ONLY with their systems. They cannot sell a copy to you if you own only a Gateway computer, for instance. ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:14:57 -0500 Subject: Re: SpeedBrain From: Charles Brooks Subject: Re: SpeedBrain I, for one would find it interesting, if there was a full demo online, to see what/how things can be edited. If there is, sorry, I missed it. Bruce I checked out the site, does the Speed Brain come with the sensors and wiring harness? No, none are needed since we plug into the stock harness, using the ford conenctor adn use all the stock sensors already in place. > You state that it is an additional cost for a couple of the other systems listed in the comparison. Also when will a similar product be available for GM applications? We are planning them out now. Thanks, Matt ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:30:29 -0500 Subject: Re: FW: Electronic timing advance - -----Original Message----- From: rauscher@xxx.com> To: DIY_EFI@xxx.edu> Date: Monday, January 25, 1999 9:15 AM Subject: Re: FW: Electronic timing advance At one time I had a dozen or so esc on the bench, what exactly do you need to know?. In crash testing them, using a 555 to generate the KS they all seemed to listen to 2 frequencies. If you want I think I got the diagrams for the 555s to generate the KS signals. The 555 generators kinda overwhelm the ESC so the results aren't terribly accurate, if your tuning them. Bruce >To trigger a 555 directly from the ESC module, do this: > a) Run 555 from 12v car power (same for ESC module) > b) Place a 10K ohm resister from pin 2 (trig) of the 555 to +12v > c) Output of ESC through a .01uf disc capacitor to > pin 2 of the 555. >This in effect, causes a short low going pulse on the trigger input of >the 555 whenever the ESC output goes low. The ESC output normally >sits at ~10volts, and pulses low for +-10-30msec depending upon the >severity of the knock. >Then as Bruce states below, run the 555 pulse duration long enough that >you can see the LED light. Or, place a small piezo beeper on the 555 >output for an audio indication. (Depending on the type of piezo, you may >need another 555 enabled from the first, to create the tone freq). >BobR. >Who now has a 305 truck ESC module on the bench, trying to find >out the how/what/why/where of this unit. >ubject: Re: FW: Electronic timing advance >>If your running a ESC Module, they have a diagram for a DIY one at the GN >>Ttype >>site, or just us a 339/any comparator to the input of the KS to the ecm, >>have >>it trigger a 555 as a monstable for a sec., and use it's output for a LED, >>relay >>etc.. Some of the GN Ttype vendors (ie ATR, I think) have an animal for >>sale. >> If your car doesn't have a ks then buy a matching ESC Module, and >>matching knock sensor (well for gm's anyway). and wire it up >>I think the bias voltage from the esc to the ecm is 7v. Set up the >>comparator for 6, and then just a "filtered""real" knock will trigger it. >> I have played mix, and match with them, and while there is some >>difference for those having trouble reading plugs, any thing is better >>than nothing. Like I'm currently using a v-8 ks with a 231 ESC Module >>and for my combination it's perfect. >>Bruce ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 07:42:24 -0700 Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths > >One thing that might work would be to have a 2 or 4 injector TBI setup, >with those injectors sized to get you up to maybe 25% of max power, >and relatively huge TPI injectors in each port. This way you can have >really big TPI injectors without worrying about idle quality. And, as >an added bonus, you probably will get a higher % of the fuel from the >TBI injectors to evaporate, which is probably a *good* thing for BSFC >at cruise. (Actually I don't know how the pumping work vs. compression >work numbers pan out... Greg?) > Before I got into the idea of air boosted, staged TPI injectors, I wuz considering staging a Barry Grant VFI unit (primary) with big TPI secondary injectors!! :-) > > >Someone asked a bit ago about low-pressure sensors. I'm gonna come >off sounding like a damn Motorola ad here, but I really like their >pressure sensors. They have a couple designed specifically as MAP >sensors, and some others in lower and higher pressure ranges. The >ones I use are mostly temperature-compensated, and have a >conditioned 0-5v output. The bandwidth is reasonably high, though >you can get better accuracy if you filter it down some. (They don't >spec it as -3dB bandwidth, they spec it as 1msec response time from >10%-90% given a full-scale pressure pulse. I'm too tired to do the >math but think 500Hz or more.) Accuracy is conservatively spec'ed >at ~1%-1.5%, you can do better if you're willing to limit the >temperature extremes, filter down to lower bandwith, and do some >math on the output signal. (Also the lower pressure range units >have more error.) Not instrument-grade but damn good. More >importantly short term drift is low. Best of all they're cheap, >the last set of 2.5 bar absolute units I got were ~$16 each in >onesies. Anyways sorry for sounding like a damn ad, I don't get >a kickback, honest! I just like the damn things. > >http://mot-sps.com/senseon/pressure.html These sound awfully good for less than 10% of the cost of Ashcroft, Dwyer, etc. instrument grade pressure transducers!! Regards, Greg > > > Whew, ok, hope this interests someone. > Chris C. ------------------------------ From: rauscher@xxx.com Date: Mon, 25 Jan 99 10:25:24 -0500 Subject: Ramblings on P/B resricters Map sensors and power brake restricter's. In the prog 101 and tunetips documents, Bruce waxed eloquently about the need to restrict the vacuum line to the power brake booster. This is to prevent a sudden change in vacuum due to applying the brakes from affecting the MAP output. In my quest of a DYI OEM system, I've come across some OEM components that serve this purpose. The first is a canister that connects inline with the P/B vacuum line. They are typically black plastic, ~1.5" in dia, ~ 3.5" in overall length. They have 3/8" barbed hose ends, one straight, the other at 90 deg. I've seen them on a lot of GM cars and trucks, GM must have bought a tanker boat-load of these. You can find them inline of the P/B hose on Astro's & full size vans, along with Buick and other GM cars. I've even seen them at Pep-Boys for $8US as a 'P/B booster filter', on the 'Help' rack. For a cleaner installation, GM has updated the P/B booster check valve. This is the unit that plugs directly into the P/B booster, that prevents the loss of vacuum whenever the engine is off. On a '92 Camaro, 3.1L V6, the check valve is also the restricter. It also appears to be more restrictive than the canister. This unit fits directly into the P/B booster of older GM's, say a first gen Firebird booster. The vacuum line fitting is larger thou, being 15/32" as opposed to the 3/8" that is used on the older cars (minor). HTH BobR. Who now has all sensors mounted, distributor and coil in place, 4bbl to TBI adapter built, and is getting ready to attack the firewall with a hole saw. - -- ------------------------------ From: "Guenther,Max" Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:42:11 -0500 Subject: Chip pack I just got my 90 vette ecm in the mail and pulled out the chip. Inside the pack there is a home made looking monster on top of two smaller chips(i dont know what the little chips are yet as I dont have the courage to touch the monster) Anyway what is it for? Also does anyone know the speed of the rom chip? I found a 27c256- 150 is this ok.(i'd leave the original alone) Thanks, Max ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:03:56 -0500 Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Geoff Richards wrote: > > ---------- > > > According to a service bulletin, the 3.8l engine suffers from carbon > > accumulation on the back of the intake valve which significantly > > reduces performance. > > How to remove this carbon ? > Possible with the myriad of 'carbon blast' type of miracle cures, > you know the cans of cleaners etc,run 'em through the engine > while running or pull the heads? > Geoff Apparently, walnut shell blasting. GM claims that no chemical works, but I would be interested in seeing the results from properly applied Top Engine Cleaner. A mechanic I worked with left some in a cylinder on night while the head was out for reconditioning, and the piston wiped clean like new in the morning. Shannen ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:10:43 -0500 Subject: Re: EFI questions dzorde wrote: > > Another question, because the system is speed density, when you back of the > accelerator the engine unloads and picks fuel delivery for its new suited > map point (lower load range) causing the O2 to read almost 0V (very lean). > Is this normal for a speed density system ? It seems correct to me as the > injection is based on looking up a base value in the map, but it doesn't > seem very healthy for the engine to lean of everytime you back of. I have > been thinking this could be why I have white tailpipes as the car is > spending most of its time on and off the gas when racing. > > Lots of questions, but this one has me puzzled. > > rgds > > Dan dzorde@xxx.au GM stuff leans out during decel and high rpm/no load. It's not as noticeable in the gas stuff, but the EFI diesels actually seem to shut down during decel. It's one way to help fuel economy. Shannen ------------------------------ From: steve ravet Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:32:39 -0600 Subject: Re: PROMs and Copyrights... One of Garfield's last posts to the list was a summary of a conversation he had with his attorney and a patent attorney about reverse engineering. It's too long to reproduce here, but it's in the archives right here: http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/diy_efi/archive/archive_num_100;lines=58166-58305 Bottom line is that the patent/copyright system is designed to protect the inventions, while allowing others access to them, and allowing these others to incrementally improve them. While having their improvements also protected. - --steve Mike wrote: > > I know this is a stupid question and it's not directly EFI-related, but can > someone educate me on the legalities, specifically, copyrights and > software/firmware, associated with reading OEM PROMs, "reverse engineering" > them and even on "publishing" findings on, say, one's web page? Does reading > the PROM not constitute making a copy of the firmware? Is this automatically > "illegal"? ------------------------------ From: Roger Heflin Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:40:03 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Chip pack On Mon, 25 Jan 1999, Guenther,Max wrote: > > I just got my 90 vette ecm in the mail and pulled out the chip. Inside > the pack there is a home made looking monster on top of two smaller > chips(i dont know what the little chips are yet as I dont have the > courage to touch the monster) Anyway what is it for? Also does anyone > know the speed of the rom chip? I found a 27c256- 150 is this ok.(i'd > leave the original alone) > Thanks, > Max > I believe the other chip (the one that looks custom) is the esc module (otherwise known as the knock sensor module/filter). If you mean by home made looking monster the blue container with the two chips in it and a 68? pin IDC connector on the bottom (connector like a ribbon cable from a IDE/SCSI internal disk drive, with 68 pins) that that is what the two chips. The other chip is the ROM of course. I have a connector rigged to be able to plug the monster (or at least the pins that matter) into a prom programmer without removing it from the set. I will probably just take the top of the container off to erase it, and program it in the containter. I have read the chips ou using this setup. Roger ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:36:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Delco calibration Thomas Matthews wrote: > > Can anyone look up the calibration APYU out of an 89 Formula 350? I'm Most current version of APYU/3516 (as of June-ish 1998) is AUJM/3580 part no 16150500. This fits 350, fed emissions, 700R4, 3.27 rear gear, with air. I don't find any reason why the new calibration was issued. > wondering if it's current, and does anyone have a PN so I could order > another CALPAC from GM? Anyone know what the 89 305 5 speed CALPAC GM part > number is? > TIA, > Tom 1989 Firebird w/ 305 pfi, 5spd, fed emissions, A/C, and 3.08 rear ratio. Part no. 16133478 cal. code APYX/3526 Have fun. Shannen ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:56:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Switch Pitch TH-400 (was something else) Gwyn Reedy wrote: > > Coupla questions. > > Does any aftermarket vendor provide custom stall ratios on the variable > pitch converters? > At one time Kenne Bell did. Looks like rebuilt/strengthened factory converters, two styles. 1800/2600 rpm, and 1600/2400 rpm stall speeds. Kenne Bell, 10743 Bell Court, Rancho Cucamonga, California 91730; (909) 941-6646. > What mechanism is used to control the pitch switch? Could that be adapted to > allow control of the clutch in a locking converter? > Old stuff, used in 65-67 Buick and Olds. Mechanical switches close circuit, switches to high stall at idle, and at 70%+ throttle opening. Electrically, it's opposite the TCC. Original switches and linkage are tough to locate, might as well use a manual switch. > Gwyn Reedy > Brandon, Florida > mailto:mgr@xxx.com > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu > > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of Greg > > Hermann > > Sent: Sunday, January 24, 1999 10:50 PM > > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths > > > > > > > > > > > >Was just thinking yesterday that the switch pitch converter should be > > >connected to tcc control , and detent solenoid should remain manual > > >control. BTW, 350 Buick HEI works, but must use drive gear from 455 > > >points dizzy. > > > > Ahh--dangerous thoughts, and hardware that gets forgotten--Anybody know of > > any experience racing with switch pitch TH-400's???? Or whether such an > > idea ever got tried with turbo motors??? :-) (Like switching the pitch to > > let it rev up into the boost QUICKLY???) > > > > Regards, Greg > > > > > >Shannen > > > > ------------------------------ From: "Ward Spoonemore" Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:08:46 -0800 Subject: RE: Delco calibration Your chip is GM p/n 16133476, for 89 F body L98 MD8 xmission, GW6 final drive (3.27:1), ECM P/N 1227165 Superseeded by AUJM p/n 16150500 Ward > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of Thomas > Matthews > Sent: Sunday, January 24, 1999 8:36 PM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Delco calibration > > > Can anyone look up the calibration APYU out of an 89 Formula 350? I'm > wondering if it's current, and does anyone have a PN so I could order > another CALPAC from GM? Anyone know what the 89 305 5 speed CALPAC GM part > number is? > TIA, > Tom > ------------------------------ From: HADJIASLANIS ARIS 1260 800 Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:06:00 +0200 Subject: Crane Cams regular telephone number Could one PLEASE provide me with a NON 800 i.e. regular telephone number of Crane Cams (not distributor) so I can call them from Europe. All I have is a fax number and an 888 telephone number which I cannot use from Europe. Thanks a lot in advance Aris ------------------------------ From: Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:17:36 -0600 Subject: RE: FW: Electronic timing advance I haven't tried this setup yet but see what you think of it. Since the KS is a pizo device if a frequency is applied to it then vibrations will be produced. If a plate was drilled and tapped for two KS and a signal generator applied to one sensor and the ESC module connected to the other one, I would guess you could very accurately map the range of a ESC. My .02$ Don > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce Plecan [SMTP:nacelp@xxx.net] > Sent: Friday, January 22, 1999 7:32 PM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: FW: Electronic timing advance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles Brooks > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 7:36 PM > Subject: Re: FW: Electronic timing advance > > If your running a ESC Module, they have a diagram for a DIY one at the GN > Ttype > site, or just us a 339/any comparator to the input of the KS to the ecm, > have > it trigger a 555 as a monstable for a sec., and use it's output for a LED, > relay > etc.. Some of the GN Ttype vendors (ie ATR, I think) have an animal for > sale. > If your car doesn't have a ks then buy a matching ESC Module, and > matching knock sensor (well for gm's anyway). and wire it up > I think the bias voltage from the esc to the ecm is 7v. Set up the > comparator for 6, and then just a "filtered""real" knock will trigger it. > I have played mix, and match with them, and while there is some > difference for those having trouble reading plugs, any thing is better > than nothing. Like I'm currently using a v-8 ks with a 231 ESC Module > and for my combination it's perfect. > Bruce > > > >Do you know of any ready made gizmo's to do that? What do they trigger > off > of, > >the sensor or the ECU? If there isn't any such animal currently what > would > be > >the recommended trigger for a homemade job, sensor or ECU? > >Charles Brooks > ------------------------------ From: James Ballenger Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:18:03 -0500 Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Shannen Durphey wrote: > I've got a 455 Buick in my 79 monte. When EFI conversion time comes, > it includes an Edelbrock 4 bbl intake and 8 injectors. It's been a > long time plan, and the car is now dissappearing in NE road salt. But > when the time comes, that's what it gets. You mean the edelbrock efi system? Or a regular wet edelbrock with 8 injectors retrofitted? So far I think they only make the efi setup for 350 chevys, manifold wont fit. > Was just thinking yesterday that the switch pitch converter should be > connected to tcc control , and detent solenoid should remain manual > control. BTW, 350 Buick HEI works, but must use drive gear from 455 > points dizzy. The previous owner put a switch pitch converter in my car, Firebird w/455 Pontiac. Seems amazingly stupid to me, why the hell do I need to rev a Poncho motor? James Ballenger ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:38:34 -0500 Subject: Non list-chasing ghosts. If there's anyone here who's run Racer Brown camshafts, esp. SB Chevy, how did you like it/them? Also, if anyone has an old spec card around from an RB cam, please email the specs to me. Thanks, Shannen ------------------------------ From: "Guenther,Max" Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:02:51 -0500 Subject: RE: Switch Pitch TH-400 (was something else) I know Poston Enterprises in Atmore Al. sold them as well. Also may want to check with TA Performance in Scottsdale AZ. . Poston had good service, I usually buy from them. Look in the back of muscle car mags for a phone #, dont have one on me. Kenne Bell seemed to be getting more into the Turbo 6 market and left the old stuff behind(cant really blame em' not as many people hot roddin the 425 or 455 as there used to be) >---------- >From: Shannen Durphey[SMTP:shannen@xxx.com] >Reply To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 11:56 AM >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >Subject: Re: Switch Pitch TH-400 (was something else) > >Gwyn Reedy wrote: >> >> Coupla questions. >> >> Does any aftermarket vendor provide custom stall ratios on the variable >> pitch converters? >> >At one time Kenne Bell did. Looks like rebuilt/strengthened factory >converters, two styles. 1800/2600 rpm, and 1600/2400 rpm stall >speeds. >Kenne Bell, 10743 Bell Court, Rancho Cucamonga, California 91730; >(909) 941-6646. > >> What mechanism is used to control the pitch switch? Could that be adapted >>to >> allow control of the clutch in a locking converter? >> >Old stuff, used in 65-67 Buick and Olds. Mechanical switches close >circuit, switches to high stall at idle, and at 70%+ throttle >opening. Electrically, it's opposite the TCC. Original switches and >linkage are tough to locate, might as well use a manual switch. > >> Gwyn Reedy >> Brandon, Florida >> mailto:mgr@xxx.com >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu >> > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of Greg >> > Hermann >> > Sent: Sunday, January 24, 1999 10:50 PM >> > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >> > Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths >> > >> > >> > >> > > >> > >Was just thinking yesterday that the switch pitch converter should be >> > >connected to tcc control , and detent solenoid should remain manual >> > >control. BTW, 350 Buick HEI works, but must use drive gear from 455 >> > >points dizzy. >> > >> > Ahh--dangerous thoughts, and hardware that gets forgotten--Anybody know >>of >> > any experience racing with switch pitch TH-400's???? Or whether such an >> > idea ever got tried with turbo motors??? :-) (Like switching the pitch to >> > let it rev up into the boost QUICKLY???) >> > >> > Regards, Greg >> > > >> > >Shannen >> > >> > > > ------------------------------ From: "Guenther,Max" Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:05:11 -0500 Subject: RE: Switch Pitch TH-400 (was something else) As for control I just used a cheap micro switch. looked cheesy but works great! >---------- >From: Shannen Durphey[SMTP:shannen@xxx.com] >Reply To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 11:56 AM >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >Subject: Re: Switch Pitch TH-400 (was something else) > >Gwyn Reedy wrote: >> >> Coupla questions. >> >> Does any aftermarket vendor provide custom stall ratios on the variable >> pitch converters? >> >At one time Kenne Bell did. Looks like rebuilt/strengthened factory >converters, two styles. 1800/2600 rpm, and 1600/2400 rpm stall >speeds. >Kenne Bell, 10743 Bell Court, Rancho Cucamonga, California 91730; >(909) 941-6646. > >> What mechanism is used to control the pitch switch? Could that be adapted >>to >> allow control of the clutch in a locking converter? >> >Old stuff, used in 65-67 Buick and Olds. Mechanical switches close >circuit, switches to high stall at idle, and at 70%+ throttle >opening. Electrically, it's opposite the TCC. Original switches and >linkage are tough to locate, might as well use a manual switch. > >> Gwyn Reedy >> Brandon, Florida >> mailto:mgr@xxx.com >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu >> > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of Greg >> > Hermann >> > Sent: Sunday, January 24, 1999 10:50 PM >> > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >> > Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths >> > >> > >> > >> > > >> > >Was just thinking yesterday that the switch pitch converter should be >> > >connected to tcc control , and detent solenoid should remain manual >> > >control. BTW, 350 Buick HEI works, but must use drive gear from 455 >> > >points dizzy. >> > >> > Ahh--dangerous thoughts, and hardware that gets forgotten--Anybody know >>of >> > any experience racing with switch pitch TH-400's???? Or whether such an >> > idea ever got tried with turbo motors??? :-) (Like switching the pitch to >> > let it rev up into the boost QUICKLY???) >> > >> > Regards, Greg >> > > >> > >Shannen >> > >> > > > ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #59 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".