DIY_EFI Digest Tuesday, 26 January 1999 Volume 04 : Number 061 In this issue: Re: Methanol compatible Injectors & LM1949 Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Re: Crane Cams regular telephone number Re: Bosch ecu question Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Re: lookup resolution Injector reference halp needed.. Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Re: PROMs and Copyrights... Re: PROMs and Copyrights... Cold hesitation Re: 1.8 TBI and the 7747 Carbon build up Re: Non list-chasing ghosts. See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:56:25 -0700 Subject: Re: Methanol compatible Injectors & LM1949 >Hi all, > > 1. I'm searching methanol (M85) compatible injectors rated at 25 >pounds/hour. If someone have a contact or a place where to find them, let >me know. > Me too!!! Infact any info on methanol or ethanol compatible injectors, from 25# on up would be of help. Bosch?? Rochester?? Siemens?? Denso?? Lucas?? Detailed flow info (fuel/pressure/flow)??? Regards, Greg > > Hugo Villeneuve. ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:12:45 -0500 Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Snip , or is there still a low-battery injector >pulse width correction? yes, in the few gm ecms, I've seen there has always been a v correction table. Snip Would anyone happen to know, an easy way to lie to the ecm to actually test this?. Would something like a 1.0 ohm 10 watt resistor in series with the key power on or does the memory wire have to drop also?. On diacom they show a fuel pump voltage, is that the same as what is used on the voltage correction table?. Cheers Bruce ------------------------------ From: John Andrianakis Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 05:48:26 +0200 Subject: Re: Crane Cams regular telephone number HADJIASLANIS ARIS 1260 800 wrote: > > Could one PLEASE provide me with a NON 800 i.e. regular telephone number > of Crane Cams (not distributor) so I can call them from Europe. All I > have is a fax number and an 888 telephone number which I cannot use from > Europe. > > Thanks a lot in advance > > Aris Try +1 904 252 1151 for tel and +1 904 258 6167 for fax. ------------------------------ From: John Andrianakis Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 06:07:55 +0200 Subject: Re: Bosch ecu question WILMAN wrote: > > ---------- > > From: John Andrianakis > > To: DIY_EFI@xxx.edu > > Subject: Re: Bosch ecu question > > Date: Thursday, January 21, 1999 12:17 PM > > > > LS wrote: > > > > > > I have idenitcal question on the Motronic DME 0261 200 088 > > > and KLR 0227 400 145 units from Porsche 951 (944T) > > > > > > MCU??? markings DME: > > > iB 57312 8738 > > > > > > MCU??? markings KLR: > > > iB 57391 8721 > > > > > > Anybody dissassembled Bosch ECU's? > > > > > > Fooled around with prom tables (fuel timing boost)? > > > > > > How about AFM to MAF replacement in software? > > > > > > Thanks Len. > > I havent worked on that particular one but I found a prom file from the > > fuel ecu and it looks simple. Cant realy tell without the emulator on a > > working car.A friend is putting together a 944t and I will be checking > > it out soon.I will post my findings asap. > > I have worked on Bosch ecus from Fiat Punto GTs,Audi A4 turbo and some > > late model BMW. > > Most of the time I deal with Magneti Marelli ecus and some Weber. > > John Andrianakis. > > > > Could you give me some advise on locating particular maps on Marelli ECUs? > > I work on quite a few Peugeot Maserati and Fiat/Lancia. > > I do have difficulty in locating some maps. > > Wilman Lee Hard to say like this because different generations of ecus store data in different ways. If you could send me a bin file I could take a look at it. What kind of maps are you looking for? What equipment are you using? ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:30:02 -0700 Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths >Tom Sharpe wrote: >> >> Greg Hermann wrote: >> >> > Ahh--dangerous thoughts, and hardware that gets forgotten--Anybody know of >> > any experience racing with switch pitch TH-400's???? Or whether such an >> > idea ever got tried with turbo motors??? :-) (Like switching the pitch to >> > let it rev up into the boost QUICKLY???) >> >> Switch pitches are good for heavy cars with long gears - help out of the hole >> and low rpm cruse. Adds about 1000 rpm - makes a 6 speed but most of the time >> it's not really effective with a wide torque curve. Use a 700R4 with the >>right >> converter, or for BIG motors, the T400 derivative, I forgot the number. >> Regarde Tom >That be the 4l80e, very heavy, very hungry for horses, but very >tough. Dual stator torque convertor + tcc, electronically controlled >shifts, and did I mention it was heavy? >Shannen Hi Shannen-- What are some typical vehicle apps for the 4180e??? Regards, Greg ------------------------------ From: James Ballenger Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:44:43 -0500 Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Shannen Durphey wrote: > traditional carb'ed manifold, DIY converted. What angle in the manifold do you go with relative to 0 degrees? closed loop, if so 2 o2 sensors? what kind of injectors and what kind of computer? > Everyone's an expert until proven wrong. If you decide to switch back > to stock pump and converter, I'll swap ya. It's not doing me any good, I don't need to rev my engine to get power from the thing. The power band and redline look more like a diesel, 4500 rpm max. I will be getting a used TH-400, which I will be attempting to rebuild around may or so. The old tranny ,TH-400,has managed to blow one posi rearend, which I later learned had good 3.42 richmond gears in it, and is working on the next. Looks like the very harsh shifts actually blew out the preload and allowed the pinion to grind away the carrier, damn shift kits. I will gladly part with it for a few bucks over shipping around then if your still interested. James Ballenger ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:37:34 -0700 Subject: Re: lookup resolution >i am toyiong with the idea of using a STAMP BS2SX as the heart of a simple >EFI system. For anyone who doesn't know the STAMP, go to... > >http://www.parallaxinc.com/ > >anyway, that doesn't really matter, my questions are regarding the >resolution of the lookup table, it is being designed primarily for my own >1.6 Litre Isuzu turbo engine, running 15 PSI boost max... therefore it will >be using a 2 bar MAP sensor, and will rev to around 8000 rpm > >I was planning on using 16 RPM points and 64 load points, this would given >around 500 RPM and .5 PSI MAP resolution... > >my questions; > >is this resolution high enough for a street driven engine ? If you can, I would say go to twice as many rpm points (32) and use a logarithmic scale to lay them out (equal percentage increase from each rpm level to the next) for best streetability. > >what sort of interpolation would i require, if any ? Linear interpolation at most, mebbe not necessary. > >would the engine still remain drivable without any interpolation... simple >chosing the next highest point in the lookup table ? Should prolly be OK, particularly if you go with 32 rpm points and make them log scale. > > > >and some others, if you've got time :) > >Is it ok to have the program say that whenever TPS = 0% simply go into >"idle mode" supplying a predetermined injector pulse ? Might look at shutting off fuel on decel, and turn back on at low rpm. > >can anyone design a simple, adjustable curcuit for sensing when the >"accelerator pump" enrichment should be added... just something that went >HIGH when the TPS had been opened faster than a predetermine rate ? > >is it ok to just use 1 bit for temp... ie, when the engine is below normal >operating temp add a set percentage to the injector pulse width, or does it >have to vary as the temp rises ? I think four, or even eight steps might be a lot better for streetability. Regards, Greg > >I know, there is heaps of questions here, but any help would be greatly >appreciated... > >thanks in advance > >Matt ------------------------------ From: ECMnut@xxx.com Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:01:51 EST Subject: Injector reference halp needed.. Anyone with the resources, you would really make my week if you can give me flow ratings on the following Mopar (Bosch) 4-banger injectors. 0 280 155 703 0 280 155 741 Danka ! Mike V ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:52:22 -0700 Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths >That's called a high stall convertor with lockup. Sure it is--but it would be a whole lot easier on drivelines, especially during shifts, and it would not fry from slipping, etc.!!! Just stray thoughts. Greg >-----Original Message----- >From: Greg Hermann >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> >Date: Sunday, January 24, 1999 11:00 PM >Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths > > >> >>> >>>Was just thinking yesterday that the switch pitch converter should be >>>connected to tcc control , and detent solenoid should remain manual >>>control. BTW, 350 Buick HEI works, but must use drive gear from 455 >>>points dizzy. >> >>Ahh--dangerous thoughts, and hardware that gets forgotten--Anybody know of >>any experience racing with switch pitch TH-400's???? Or whether such an >>idea ever got tried with turbo motors??? :-) (Like switching the pitch to >>let it rev up into the boost QUICKLY???) >> >>Regards, Greg >>> >>>Shannen >> >> >> ------------------------------ From: Jim Davies Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:24:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths On Mon, 25 Jan 1999, Tom Sharpe wrote: > it's not really effective with a wide torque curve. Use a 700R4 with the right > converter, or for BIG motors, the T400 derivative, I forgot the number. 4L80E ------------------------------ From: Orin Eman Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:45:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: PROMs and Copyrights... OK, wrong term... the point is still valid with 'approval' replaced with "Exemption Order". They have it and aren't making claims connecting CARB with advertised performance. > CARB never gives approval... > They issue Exemption Orders that state that the product in question does not > create emissions that exceed the particular model years limits. > CARB has gone after and sued several companies that claimed CARB issued > Approval or certification that a particular product performed as advertised > (in regards to HP & Torque...). > -----Original Message----- > From: Orin Eman > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > Date: Sunday, January 24, 1999 11:05 PM > Subject: Re: PROMs and Copyrights... > > > >> Mike wrote: > >> The bigger question on copying and modifying the OEM code is who out > >> here does emissions testing on the final results? The OEM's spend huge > >> $$$ on testing and I suspect are on the hook for any changes that effect > >> emissions. Do any aftermarket tuners who make PROM changes recertify > >> the cars or even test for emissions? > > > >Well, Intended Acceleration has CARB approval for some of their > >'modifications'. What this actually involves is a different matter... > > > >Orin. > > ------------------------------ From: Orin Eman Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:54:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: PROMs and Copyrights... > Actually, they are not modifying code... > They are modifying look-up tables. There is no copyright or patent that > covers timing curves, fuel curves etc... if there was, changing the advance > weights in your old distributor ignition car would have been illegal. Perhaps not for a simple curve, but the tables in ECUs are generated from extended testing of the engine and are not simple curves. It is irrelevant what the bits represent, be it code or data. It's still covered by copyright. For example, there is no such thing as a data table on a PIC, it's all code, but there is a method of using a code sequence for a data table. You can't make this code/data table distinction. Orin. ------------------------------ From: "Geoff Richards" Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:25:20 +1100 Subject: Cold hesitation Hi to all would someone be willing to read this data list and help with stalling problem cold? This data was read via Tech 1 scan tool on a '93 model Holden Commodore 3.8l V6 via the 'Snapshot method' Problem occurs cold when first started and shifted into 'drive' and throttle applied. After warm up no problem The data I have included is only the readings that have changed within the 'Snapshot' Columns are for time after start DATA 1 sec 5 sec 10 sec RPM 1523 936 468 MAP 1.01v 1.41v 3.84 MAP 29kpa 36kpa 82kpa TPS .47v .47v .66v TPS 0% 0% 5% O2 1061mv 986mv 310mv INJ PULSE 6.26ms 6.3ms 18.09ms INJ VOLTS 12.6v 13.4v 12.7v LTFT 0 -6% 0 LTFT CELL 22 22 4 LTFT DISABLED AFR 8.6:1 10.3:1 9.6:1 O2 STATUS rich rich lean IAC 98 85 104 SPARK ADV +24 +28 +5 I can see that I'm experiencing a lean condition during this time via the O2 sensor readings and inj pulse time but cannot work out what is the cause I do not understand why the LTFT is changing when it is apparently disabled Why does MAP go so high ? Is spark advance pulled down to avoid detonation while lean condition exists? Look forward to opinions and advice TIA Geoff ------------------------------ From: EFISYSTEMS@xxx.com Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 03:48:43 EST Subject: Re: 1.8 TBI and the 7747 I hate to blow it for the rest of us that know but in a 747 and others just get a calpak from a 4 cyl(ex. S-10) and plug it in to a 747.....its just a resistor network that gets the processor to understand the ticks while cranking that it's a 4 cyl......then make sure you change the cyl select in the lookup tables so the "timing" is correct......blah blah and then some - -Carl Summers In a message dated 1/23/99 8:45:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, nacelp@xxx.net writes: << Subj: Re: 1.8 TBI and the 7747 Date: 1/23/99 8:45:25 PM Pacific Standard Time From: nacelp@xxx.net (Bruce Plecan) Sender: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu Reply-to: diy_efi@xxx.edu To: diy_efi@xxx.edu I knew, you knew that, well maybe a couple other guys,do Bruce >> Oh, and what 4 cyl application used a 747?. >> Bruce >None.. >Mike V >> ------------------------------ From: "Geoff Richards" Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:54:38 +1100 Subject: Carbon build up - ---------- > According to a service bulletin, the 3.8l engine suffers from carbon > accumulation on the back of the intake valve which significantly > reduces performance. How to remove this carbon ? Possible with the myriad of 'carbon blast' type of miracle cures, you know the cans of cleaners etc,run 'em through the engine while running or pull the heads? Geoff ------------------------------ From: EFISYSTEMS@xxx.com Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 04:19:52 EST Subject: Re: Non list-chasing ghosts. No offense intended Shannen,,,,, but what about newer lobe technology!!!!!! - -Carl Summers In a message dated 1/25/99 9:47:25 AM Pacific Standard Time, shannen@xxx.com writes: << Subj: Non list-chasing ghosts. Date: 1/25/99 9:47:25 AM Pacific Standard Time From: shannen@xxx.com (Shannen Durphey) Sender: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu Reply-to: diy_efi@xxx.edu To: diy_efi@xxx.edu) If there's anyone here who's run Racer Brown camshafts, esp. SB Chevy, how did you like it/them? Also, if anyone has an old spec card around from an RB cam, please email the specs to me. Thanks, Shannen >> ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #61 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".