DIY_EFI Digest Tuesday, 26 January 1999 Volume 04 : Number 062 In this issue: Re: Non list-chasing ghosts. Timing and diff ratio's Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Re: Carbon build up Re: LM9044 Re: Methanol injectors Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Re: FW: Electronic timing advance RE: Switch Pitch TH-400 (was something else) Cubic Dollars Switch Pitch Re: Cubic Dollars RE: Switch Pitch TH-400 (was something else) Re: 1.8 TBI and the 7747 Re: Cubic Dollars Re: Switch Pitch Re: Switch Pitch TH-400 (was something else) Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Re: Methanol Injectors RE: Switch Pitch Re: Non list-chasing ghosts. RE: Switch Pitch See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shannen Durphey Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 05:31:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Non list-chasing ghosts. I'm currently helping a guy put together an engine for an antique stock car. In the process, I've met several people who bragged about these cams. I'm curious about them now, and want to throw some numbers into my engine simulations. Seems like they were pretty hot, and now you don't even hear about RB. Since you're on the line, know of any reasonable sources for a set of fuelie heade? Gotta be straight plug. Shannen EFISYSTEMS@xxx.com wrote: > > No offense intended Shannen,,,,, but what about newer lobe technology!!!!!! > -Carl Summers > ------------------------------ From: Stuart Bunning Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 20:41:38 +1000 (EST) Subject: Timing and diff ratio's Hi All In the past I have swapped the diff ratio on my old non-efi based car to a lower ratio so I would get better lower ET's over the 1/4 mile and quick acceleration off the lights. BUT If I was to do this with delco 808 based EFI car say go from standard 3.08:1 to 3.7:1 diff ratio would I need to alter the MEMCAL TIMING and FUEL maps at all. To fully benifit from the diff change ?? I assume that as the motor would be under less load and rev quicker I could benifit from changing the timing but what about fuel I assume as the motor hasn't all of a sudden changes its VE there should not need to be any fuel changes in the memcal... Best Regards, STUART BUNNING SALES ENGINEER KENELEC PTY LTD 23-25 REDLAND DRIVE MITCHAM VICTORIA 3132 AUSTRALIA PHONE: 61 3 9873 1022 FAX: 61 3 9873 0200 EMAIL: stuart@xxx.au WEB: http://www.kenelec.com.au/ ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 05:47:36 -0500 Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Greg Hermann wrote: > > >Tom Sharpe wrote: > >> > >> Greg Hermann wrote: > >> > >> > Ahh--dangerous thoughts, and hardware that gets forgotten--Anybody know of > >> > any experience racing with switch pitch TH-400's???? Or whether such an > >> > idea ever got tried with turbo motors??? :-) (Like switching the pitch to > >> > let it rev up into the boost QUICKLY???) > >> > >> Switch pitches are good for heavy cars with long gears - help out of the hole > >> and low rpm cruse. Adds about 1000 rpm - makes a 6 speed but most of the time > >> it's not really effective with a wide torque curve. Use a 700R4 with the > >>right > >> converter, or for BIG motors, the T400 derivative, I forgot the number. > >> Regarde Tom > >That be the 4l80e, very heavy, very hungry for horses, but very > >tough. Dual stator torque convertor + tcc, electronically controlled > >shifts, and did I mention it was heavy? > >Shannen > > Hi Shannen-- > > What are some typical vehicle apps for the 4180e??? > > Regards, Greg pickups and vans, motor homes, diesel trucks, all rated at 3/4 ton and above, 1991 and newer. They get much more common after 1994. Really, it is a THM400 with overdrive added. Shannen ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 06:19:59 -0500 Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths James Ballenger wrote: > > Shannen Durphey wrote: > > > traditional carb'ed manifold, DIY converted. > > What angle in the manifold do you go with relative to 0 degrees? As close to optimum as possible. Really, I'm going to have to sit down with the manifold and an empty set of cylinder heads and start taking measurements. I'll also get some different PFI intakes/heads to see what factory stuff is like. > >closed loop, if so 2 o2 sensors? what kind of injectors and what kind of computer? Since this is a long term plan, it's subject to change. Right now I'm thinking about the 730 ecm and factory related stuff. 'course it depends on the final power level of the engine. I need to do more efi swaps that require chip changes. One "practice" run will involve a 67 Chevelle, 7747 ecm, and Holley TBI. Another will be turbocharging a 93 cavalier/2.2l. And in between, anyone I can talk into converting to EFI. I'm pretty sure that a couple of years will expire before that car is converted. Shannen ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 06:37:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Carbon build up Walnut shell blasting is the recommended fix. Can be done on the vehicle if there's enough access to the intake ports. Like sandblasting, but the crushed shells are harmless to the engine. Any in tank "miracle cures" would be working a true miracle if they helped this situation. Shannen > > ---------- > > > According to a service bulletin, the 3.8l engine suffers from carbon > > accumulation on the back of the intake valve which significantly > > reduces performance. > > How to remove this carbon ? > Possible with the myriad of 'carbon blast' type of miracle cures, > you know the cans of cleaners etc,run 'em through the engine > while running or pull the heads? > Geoff ------------------------------ From: Wen Yen Chan Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 07:04:24 -0500 Subject: Re: LM9044 Hello, Try Newark electronics. Wen On Mon, 25 Jan 1999, Wayne Macdonald wrote: > Anyone know where I can get some of the LM9044 O2 amplifiers ?, Or an equivalent, Or a circuit diagram that will do the job. > > Thanks > Wayne. ------------------------------ From: J W Hodgson Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:42:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Methanol injectors Probably the best place to start is to look at the injectors used on flex-fuel vehicles such as the Ford Taurus FFV. GM and Chrysler (oops, Daimler Chrysler) also produced flex-fuel vehicles. J. W. Hodgson Mechanical Engineering Dept e-mail: jhodgson@xxx.edu 414 Dougherty Hall http://web.utk.edu/~hodgson The University of Tennessee voice: (423) 974-5294 Knoxville, TN 37996-2210 fax: (423) 974-5274 ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 07:13:40 -0700 Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths >Shannen Durphey wrote: > >> traditional carb'ed manifold, DIY converted. > >What angle in the manifold do you go with relative to 0 degrees? closed >loop, if so 2 o2 >sensors? what kind of injectors and what kind of computer? > >> Everyone's an expert until proven wrong. If you decide to switch back >> to stock pump and converter, I'll swap ya. > > It's not doing me any good, I don't need to rev my engine to get power >from the >thing. The power band and redline look more like a diesel, 4500 rpm max. >I will be >getting a used TH-400, which I will be attempting to rebuild around may or >so. The old >tranny ,TH-400,has managed to blow one posi rearend, which I later learned >had good 3.42 >richmond gears in it, and is working on the next. Looks like the very >harsh shifts >actually blew out the preload and allowed the pinion to grind away the >carrier, damn >shift kits. I will gladly part with it for a few bucks over shipping >around then if your >still interested. > >James Ballenger Did the rear have a crush sleeve for preload, or positive shims?? The latter is a lot harder to do that to, conversions are usually available. Regards, Greg ------------------------------ From: rauscher@xxx.com Date: Tue, 26 Jan 99 09:22:05 -0500 Subject: Re: FW: Electronic timing advance I guess it's mostly curiosity, with the thought that I may need to tweak the tuning of the unit for other apps. It's been mentioned that the knock freq is relative to the bore size. Being that I've several 305 ESC's and none from a 350 (hard to find), well, I was just having some fun... My results seem to be a little different then what you have found, but I'm not done yet. My first step was to hook the knock sensor output up to the scope and rap on it with a metal rod. It looks just like you would expect from a microphone, with a max output of ~3v (with a 'good' strike). So, the ESC module is on the bench, +12v supply, scope on output, and a function generator (sine wave), on the input. The ESC module is a HKM from a '87 305 Chevy van. It appears as though the module responds mostly to a rapid change in signal. Either a sudden increase in amplitude, or a sudden change in frequency. It appears that the freq range need be in the 2KHz to 17.5 KHz range. I haven't found a 'sweet' spot that would cause a continuous knock signal output. The max p-p volts input that I've been testing with is 2.5v. If I really crank up the volts, I can get a continuous output at almost any input freq. For the curious amongst us, the circuit is built on a thin ceramic plate using silk-screened on resisters, some SMD capacitors, and a single SMD chip (18 pin). The board was 'encapsulated' with a clear jelly like substance that cleaned off with a toothbrush. The resisters are laser trimmed for value. BobR. Who at this point is thinking that verifying the above on another module would be a good idea. No sense in doing all this with a module that might be/is bad. Who is also thinking that a tape recording on a running auto, of the knock sensor 'sounds' like something to try. Bruce Plecan wrote: >At one time I had a dozen or so esc on the bench, what exactly do you need >to know?. >In crash testing them, using a 555 to generate the KS they all seemed to >listen >to 2 frequencies. >If you want I think I got the diagrams for the 555s to generate the KS >signals. >The 555 generators kinda overwhelm the ESC so the results aren't terribly >accurate, if your tuning them. >Bruce BobR wrote: >>Who now has a 305 truck ESC module on the bench, trying to find >>out the how/what/why/where of this unit. - -- ------------------------------ From: "Gwyn Reedy" Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:10:49 -0500 Subject: RE: Switch Pitch TH-400 (was something else) Thanks for your response Max, and Shannen too. Time to admit some ignorance. Haven't taken apart an automatic since I rebuilt a powerglide back in the 70's. Have driven Buicks with Dynaflow, and a 66 Buick with 2 speed torque converter (my mom's car back then) and various TH350s and TH400s and the 4l60E in my Impala. Was under the impression that you can't put a locking torque converter on a TH-350 or 400 because there is some kind of mechanical device (rod or sleeve) that is in the trans and activates the locking of the clutches in the converter. Seems like it would have to be that or else some kind of slip rings to get electricity into the converter to lock an electrical clutch. So what I'm asking is if the mechanism to switch the variable pitch torque converter is similar enough to the mechanism of the locking torque converter to be used for the latter. Not concerned about how the decision to switch pitch or to lock comes about, but how does it get transmitted into the converter. Reason for the interest: I have a big block pickup with TH-400 and 3.08 rear end. 4l80's are very expensive but is what I'd really like to have. If I could get a locking converter to work on the truck I might spring for an aux overdrive unit to mount behind the automatic and put in a 4.11 rear. Do you have a reference to a site or book that explains the variable pitch setup? Gwyn Reedy Brandon, Florida mailto:mgr@xxx.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu] On Behalf Of > Guenther,Max > Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 1:05 PM > To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu' > Subject: RE: Switch Pitch TH-400 (was something else) > > > As for control I just used a cheap micro switch. looked cheesy but > works great! > > >---------- > >From: Shannen Durphey[SMTP:shannen@xxx.com] > >Reply To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > >Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 11:56 AM > >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > >Subject: Re: Switch Pitch TH-400 (was something else) > > > >Gwyn Reedy wrote: > >> > >> Coupla questions. > >> > >> Does any aftermarket vendor provide custom stall ratios on the variable > >> pitch converters? > >> > >At one time Kenne Bell did. Looks like rebuilt/strengthened factory > >converters, two styles. 1800/2600 rpm, and 1600/2400 rpm stall > >speeds. > >Kenne Bell, 10743 Bell Court, Rancho Cucamonga, California 91730; > >(909) 941-6646. > > > >> What mechanism is used to control the pitch switch? Could that > be adapted > >>to > >> allow control of the clutch in a locking converter? > >> > >Old stuff, used in 65-67 Buick and Olds. Mechanical switches close > >circuit, switches to high stall at idle, and at 70%+ throttle > >opening. Electrically, it's opposite the TCC. Original switches and > >linkage are tough to locate, might as well use a manual switch. > > > >> Gwyn Reedy > >> Brandon, Florida > >> mailto:mgr@xxx.com > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu > >> > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of Greg > >> > Hermann > >> > Sent: Sunday, January 24, 1999 10:50 PM > >> > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > >> > Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > >Was just thinking yesterday that the switch pitch converter > should be > >> > >connected to tcc control , and detent solenoid should remain manual > >> > >control. BTW, 350 Buick HEI works, but must use drive gear from 455 > >> > >points dizzy. > >> > > >> > Ahh--dangerous thoughts, and hardware that gets > forgotten--Anybody know > >>of > >> > any experience racing with switch pitch TH-400's???? Or > whether such an > >> > idea ever got tried with turbo motors??? :-) (Like switching > the pitch to > >> > let it rev up into the boost QUICKLY???) > >> > > >> > Regards, Greg > >> > > > >> > >Shannen > >> > > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------ From: bob@xxx.com (Robert Harris) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:30:55 GMT Subject: Cubic Dollars The question of your rights to hack GM or other ECU's vs the Manufacturers boil down to two words - Cubic Dollars. If or when it is perceived by GM et al to be in GM's interest to end the practice, it will end. GM has historically crushed competition without regard to anything other than it was good for GM. Count on it. Start with sheer absolute weight of lawyers - how many thousand can you afford to defend with? Then if you do start to get an edge - how many cubic lobbyist can you afford? GM can and has had the law routinely changed to suit GM. When it was in Bill Gates interest to crush OS-2, cheap counterfeit windows flooded the market. Now that it is not - the software police are out in force and MS openly states that it intends to have the 100,000 $ prescribed by law fines levied on individuals to end the practice. Bill Gates can and is taking everything including the house of anyone they catch. Before you start to whine and snivel about rights - think campaign contributions. How many bucks to how many Klintonian officials campaigns can you fatten vs GM. Not fair? - who said GM or life or God was fair? And do not forget that the tax paid gnomes and drones of the evil empire AmeriKa will gladly crush you with the full weight and force of law if it pleases their masters. Think not - remember Janet Reno's barbecue where 84 people found out what happens when thief religion was not BATF approved. Am I cynical - absolutely. Do I disapprove - absolutely NOT. Do it, enjoy the holiday - but don't be surprised when Cubic Dollars descend to end the practice. 1963 Ford C-600 Prison Bus Conversion "Home" 1971 Lincoln Continental 460 "Christine" 1972 "Whale" Mustang awaiting transplant 1978 Dodge Long Bed Peeek Up "Bundymobile" Habaneros - not just for breakfast anymore ------------------------------ From: bob@xxx.com (Robert Harris) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:45:29 GMT Subject: Switch Pitch The switch pitch convertor was used to replace low gear of the four speed hydramatic transmission when GM upgraded the design to the "Turbo-Hydromatic" and was available only with the 400 and only on the heavier cars. Not so much a starting gear as a "passing" gear. Nice smooth "downshift" unlike shifting gears - so as to not disturb the passengers and simply smoothly allow a nice increase in power to swoop around the peasants. Properly done it can save a lot of wear and tear on transmissions etc. My dream would be a switch pitch that would lock up. Then could have a heavy duty and economical xmission. 1963 Ford C-600 Prison Bus Conversion "Home" 1971 Lincoln Continental 460 "Christine" 1972 "Whale" Mustang awaiting transplant 1978 Dodge Long Bed Peeek Up "Bundymobile" Habaneros - not just for breakfast anymore ------------------------------ From: andy quaas Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:16:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Cubic Dollars Scully agrees with that one Mulder. - ---Robert Harris wrote: > > The question of your rights to hack GM or other ECU's vs the Manufacturers > boil down to two words - Cubic Dollars. If or when it is perceived by GM et > al to be in GM's interest to end the practice, it will end. GM has > historically crushed competition without regard to anything other than it was > good for GM. Count on it. > > Start with sheer absolute weight of lawyers - how many thousand can you afford > to defend with? Then if you do start to get an edge - how many cubic > lobbyist can you afford? GM can and has had the law routinely changed to suit > GM. > > When it was in Bill Gates interest to crush OS-2, cheap counterfeit windows > flooded the market. Now that it is not - the software police are out in force > and MS openly states that it intends to have the 100,000 $ prescribed by law > fines levied on individuals to end the practice. Bill Gates can and is taking > everything including the house of anyone they catch. > > Before you start to whine and snivel about rights - think campaign > contributions. How many bucks to how many Klintonian officials campaigns can > you fatten vs GM. Not fair? - who said GM or life or God was fair? > > And do not forget that the tax paid gnomes and drones of the evil empire > AmeriKa will gladly crush you with the full weight and force of law if it > pleases their masters. Think not - remember Janet Reno's barbecue where 84 > people found out what happens when thief religion was not BATF approved. > > Am I cynical - absolutely. Do I disapprove - absolutely NOT. Do it, enjoy > the holiday - but don't be surprised when Cubic Dollars descend to end the > practice. > > 1963 Ford C-600 Prison Bus Conversion "Home" > 1971 Lincoln Continental 460 "Christine" > 1972 "Whale" Mustang awaiting transplant > 1978 Dodge Long Bed Peeek Up "Bundymobile" > > Habaneros - not just for breakfast anymore > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ From: Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:37:49 -0600 Subject: RE: Switch Pitch TH-400 (was something else) If you don't mind I,ll pop in with my experience with my 82 Trans Am Turbo 350C with lock up converter. A lock up converter will fit on a regular turbo hydro but it wont operate in the lock up mode because the 350C Trans has a small shaft inside the main splined shaft. The ECM sends voltage to a solenoid in the Trans and the solenoid applies fluid to the small shaft pushing it out. I cut the converter open to see how the lock up worked and found the shaft pushes a drum with friction material on the outer edge of the drum against the converter housing that is bolted to the flywheel causing a lock up. The switch pitch converter has a stator with the fins on pins that can rotate a fixed amount. Normal pitch would be say 17 degrees. When you mash the throttle and hit the microswitch a solenoid in the Trans puts fluid into the hollow input shaft into a passage in the converter and into the stator this moves the fins to a 30 degree pitch causing more torque multiplication. At cruising speed you go back to the 17 degree pitch to save gas. I don't know if the upshift dropped out the fluid to get back to the 17 degree or not. Please note the degrees of pitch are for example only I don't recall the exact numbers. Don > -----Original Message----- > From: Gwyn Reedy [SMTP:mgr@xxx.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 9:11 AM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: RE: Switch Pitch TH-400 (was something else) > > Thanks for your response Max, and Shannen too. > > Time to admit some ignorance. Haven't taken apart an automatic since I > rebuilt a powerglide back in the 70's. Have driven Buicks with Dynaflow, > and a 66 Buick with 2 speed torque converter (my mom's car back then) and > various TH350s and TH400s and the 4l60E in my Impala. > > Was under the impression that you can't put a locking torque converter on > a > TH-350 or 400 because there is some kind of mechanical device (rod or > sleeve) that is in the trans and activates the locking of the clutches in > the converter. Seems like it would have to be that or else some kind of > slip > rings to get electricity into the converter to lock an electrical clutch. > > So what I'm asking is if the mechanism to switch the variable pitch torque > converter is similar enough to the mechanism of the locking torque > converter > to be used for the latter. Not concerned about how the decision to switch > pitch or to lock comes about, but how does it get transmitted into the > converter. > > Reason for the interest: I have a big block pickup with TH-400 and 3.08 > rear > end. 4l80's are very expensive but is what I'd really like to have. If I > could get a locking converter to work on the truck I might spring for an > aux > overdrive unit to mount behind the automatic and put in a 4.11 rear. > > Do you have a reference to a site or book that explains the variable pitch > setup? > > Gwyn Reedy > Brandon, Florida > mailto:mgr@xxx.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu > > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu] > > On Behalf Of > > Guenther,Max > > Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 1:05 PM > > To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu' > > Subject: RE: Switch Pitch TH-400 (was something else) > > > > > > As for control I just used a cheap micro switch. looked cheesy but > > works great! > > > > >---------- > > >From: Shannen Durphey[SMTP:shannen@xxx.com] > > >Reply To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > >Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 11:56 AM > > >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > >Subject: Re: Switch Pitch TH-400 (was something else) > > > > > >Gwyn Reedy wrote: > > >> > > >> Coupla questions. > > >> > > >> Does any aftermarket vendor provide custom stall ratios on the > variable > > >> pitch converters? > > >> > > >At one time Kenne Bell did. Looks like rebuilt/strengthened factory > > >converters, two styles. 1800/2600 rpm, and 1600/2400 rpm stall > > >speeds. > > >Kenne Bell, 10743 Bell Court, Rancho Cucamonga, California 91730; > > >(909) 941-6646. > > > > > >> What mechanism is used to control the pitch switch? Could that > > be adapted > > >>to > > >> allow control of the clutch in a locking converter? > > >> > > >Old stuff, used in 65-67 Buick and Olds. Mechanical switches close > > >circuit, switches to high stall at idle, and at 70%+ throttle > > >opening. Electrically, it's opposite the TCC. Original switches and > > >linkage are tough to locate, might as well use a manual switch. > > > > > >> Gwyn Reedy > > >> Brandon, Florida > > >> mailto:mgr@xxx.com > > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > > >> > From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu > > >> > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of Greg > > >> > Hermann > > >> > Sent: Sunday, January 24, 1999 10:50 PM > > >> > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > >> > Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >Was just thinking yesterday that the switch pitch converter > > should be > > >> > >connected to tcc control , and detent solenoid should remain > manual > > >> > >control. BTW, 350 Buick HEI works, but must use drive gear from > 455 > > >> > >points dizzy. > > >> > > > >> > Ahh--dangerous thoughts, and hardware that gets > > forgotten--Anybody know > > >>of > > >> > any experience racing with switch pitch TH-400's???? Or > > whether such an > > >> > idea ever got tried with turbo motors??? :-) (Like switching > > the pitch to > > >> > let it rev up into the boost QUICKLY???) > > >> > > > >> > Regards, Greg > > >> > > > > >> > >Shannen > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:07:59 -0500 Subject: Re: 1.8 TBI and the 7747 - -----Original Message----- From: EFISYSTEMS@xxx.com> To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 4:04 AM Subject: Re: 1.8 TBI and the 7747 And then do what with the extra injector connection?. As I read it he wanted to fire a single injector. 747 has two final drivers, 165 with it's single driver seemed to be a more appropriate candidate. I still say for someone "new" to this, and with the limited amount of domained info., starting with a ecm used for a similiar application, is the only way to go. The only code I've actually seen used in 4-6-8 cylinder applications, would at least tend to say to me there is more to it than what you've said. Cheers Bruce >I hate to blow it for the rest of us that know but in a 747 and others just >get a calpak from a 4 cyl(ex. S-10) and plug it in to a 747.....its just a >resistor network that gets the processor to understand the ticks while >cranking that it's a 4 cyl......then make sure you change the cyl select in >the lookup tables so the "timing" is correct......blah blah and then some >-Carl Summers > >In a message dated 1/23/99 8:45:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, nacelp@xxx.net >writes: > ><< Subj: Re: 1.8 TBI and the 7747 > Date: 1/23/99 8:45:25 PM Pacific Standard Time > From: nacelp@xxx.net (Bruce Plecan) > Sender: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu > Reply-to: diy_efi@xxx.edu > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > > > I knew, you knew that, well maybe a couple other guys,do > Bruce > > > >> Oh, and what 4 cyl application used a 747?. > >> Bruce > >None.. > >Mike V > > > >> > ------------------------------ From: Oleg Gusev Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:05:09 +0100 Subject: Re: Cubic Dollars Robert Harris wrote: > > When it was in Bill Gates interest to crush OS-2, cheap counterfeit windows > flooded the market. Now that it is not - the software police are out in force > and MS openly states that it intends to have the 100,000 $ prescribed by law > fines levied on individuals to end the practice. Bill Gates can and is taking > everything including the house of anyone they catch. > More and more people today run Linux and even some big corporations support Open Source Software. Oleg. - -- AlphaBIOS message: "You have selected to switch to a different operating system. This computer will no longer be able to run Windows NT." ------------------------------ From: Jim Davies Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:34:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Switch Pitch On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Robert Harris wrote: > The switch pitch convertor was used to replace low gear of the four speed > hydramatic transmission when GM upgraded the design to the "Turbo-Hydromatic" > and was available only with the 400 and only on the heavier cars. > > Not so much a starting gear as a "passing" gear. Nice smooth "downshift" > unlike shifting gears - so as to not disturb the passengers and simply > smoothly allow a nice increase in power to swoop around the peasants. > VP convertors did give a noticeable diiference at lower speeds and they were easily rewired to be switched low/high at will. Oddly enough, their reason for existence was to reduce creep when idling in gear with the car stopped. ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:45:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Switch Pitch TH-400 (was something else) Gwyn Reedy wrote: > > Thanks for your response Max, and Shannen too. > > Time to admit some ignorance. Haven't taken apart an automatic since I > rebuilt a powerglide back in the 70's. Have driven Buicks with Dynaflow, > and a 66 Buick with 2 speed torque converter (my mom's car back then) and > various TH350s and TH400s and the 4l60E in my Impala. > > Was under the impression that you can't put a locking torque converter on a > TH-350 or 400 because there is some kind of mechanical device (rod or > sleeve) that is in the trans and activates the locking of the clutches in > the converter. Seems like it would have to be that or else some kind of slip > rings to get electricity into the converter to lock an electrical clutch. > > So what I'm asking is if the mechanism to switch the variable pitch torque > converter is similar enough to the mechanism of the locking torque converter > to be used for the latter. Not concerned about how the decision to switch > pitch or to lock comes about, but how does it get transmitted into the > converter. > > Reason for the interest: I have a big block pickup with TH-400 and 3.08 rear > end. 4l80's are very expensive but is what I'd really like to have. If I > could get a locking converter to work on the truck I might spring for an aux > overdrive unit to mount behind the automatic and put in a 4.11 rear. > > Do you have a reference to a site or book that explains the variable pitch > setup? > The reference of preference is "How to Work With and Modify the Turbo Hydramatic 400 Transmission" by Ron sessions. ISBN 0-87938-267-8 Hopefully, there's an updated edition which includes the 4L80E. Both the TCC and the variable pitch mechanisms are hydraulically actuated through the stator shaft. The stall speeds in the VP are changed by changing the angle of the stator blades. The TCC is applied by forcing a large piston with a thin layer of friction material against the inside of the converter housing. The reason that a THM350 tcc type converter won't work on the non tcc versions is that the hydraulic passages and controls aren't present. This is assuming that the converter will even fit. Hydraulically, there are some similarities. It's the mechanical problems you have to overcome, like mismatched splines and drilling hardened shafts and making auxiliary valve bodies. I remember considering looking into using the tcc type 350 converter on the variable pitch 400 pump, but I've since found I'm satisfied with the v.p. converter. In the 60's, the general public didn't like the switch pitch, and GM dropped it. Twenty years later, the TCC was forced down our throats and we learned to live with it. Compared to the early TCC cars, the switch pitch is a dream to run. Now for your situation... There's a THM350 with a TCC. If your truck is for fun and light duty usage, you could switch to a THM350. This would also free up some horses. Or maybe replace the trans gear set for lower 1st and 2nd gear ratios. They're available for both 350 and 400 trannys. As far as putting a TCC on your non tcc trans, I don't know of any easy solution. If I were going to do it, I'd start by finding out which parts differ between the 400 and 4L80E, and why, and go from there. I won't say it can't be done. With enough time and money, anything's possible. Shannen > Gwyn Reedy > Brandon, Florida > mailto:mgr@xxx.com > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu > > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu] > > On Behalf Of > > Guenther,Max > > Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 1:05 PM > > To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu' > > Subject: RE: Switch Pitch TH-400 (was something else) > > > > > > As for control I just used a cheap micro switch. looked cheesy but > > works great! > > > > >---------- > > >From: Shannen Durphey[SMTP:shannen@xxx.com] > > >Reply To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > >Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 11:56 AM > > >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > >Subject: Re: Switch Pitch TH-400 (was something else) > > > > > >Gwyn Reedy wrote: > > >> > > >> Coupla questions. > > >> > > >> Does any aftermarket vendor provide custom stall ratios on the variable > > >> pitch converters? > > >> > > >At one time Kenne Bell did. Looks like rebuilt/strengthened factory > > >converters, two styles. 1800/2600 rpm, and 1600/2400 rpm stall > > >speeds. > > >Kenne Bell, 10743 Bell Court, Rancho Cucamonga, California 91730; > > >(909) 941-6646. > > > > > >> What mechanism is used to control the pitch switch? Could that > > be adapted > > >>to > > >> allow control of the clutch in a locking converter? > > >> > > >Old stuff, used in 65-67 Buick and Olds. Mechanical switches close > > >circuit, switches to high stall at idle, and at 70%+ throttle > > >opening. Electrically, it's opposite the TCC. Original switches and > > >linkage are tough to locate, might as well use a manual switch. > > > > > >> Gwyn Reedy > > >> Brandon, Florida > > >> mailto:mgr@xxx.com > > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > > >> > From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu > > >> > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of Greg > > >> > Hermann > > >> > Sent: Sunday, January 24, 1999 10:50 PM > > >> > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > >> > Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >Was just thinking yesterday that the switch pitch converter > > should be > > >> > >connected to tcc control , and detent solenoid should remain manual > > >> > >control. BTW, 350 Buick HEI works, but must use drive gear from 455 > > >> > >points dizzy. > > >> > > > >> > Ahh--dangerous thoughts, and hardware that gets > > forgotten--Anybody know > > >>of > > >> > any experience racing with switch pitch TH-400's???? Or > > whether such an > > >> > idea ever got tried with turbo motors??? :-) (Like switching > > the pitch to > > >> > let it rev up into the boost QUICKLY???) > > >> > > > >> > Regards, Greg > > >> > > > > >> > >Shannen > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ From: Alain Toussaint Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:06:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths > turbocharging a 93 cavalier/2.2l.... wonder if my brother would be interrested in this (he does have a 93 2.2l cavalier)..... Alain Toussaint Drummondville Quebec,Canada alaint@xxx.ca ------------------------------ From: Mark Kiecker Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:47:30 -0600 Subject: Re: Methanol Injectors I have fuel injected my Honda motorcycle that runs on methanol, M85. The injectors I am using are BOSCH part number 0280155715, they run at 24#/hr. They also make meth injectors that run at 29#/hr, but I haven't needed them yet. Hope this helps you out. ------------------------------ From: "Guenther,Max" Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:34:34 -0500 Subject: RE: Switch Pitch I'd have to agree. I did not know what it was for in my 63 Riviera. Substituted a 65 Riv engine and trans and did not connect the Variable pitch switch. Had to idle it up kinda high so it would idle in gear. Chirped everytime I went from park to drive. Once I found out what it was it turned out to be very smooth. >-----Original Message----- >From: Jim Davies [SMTP:jimd@xxx.ca] >Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 12:34 PM >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >Subject: Re: Switch Pitch > > > >On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Robert Harris wrote: > >> The switch pitch convertor was used to replace low gear of the four speed >> hydramatic transmission when GM upgraded the design to the >>"Turbo-Hydromatic" >> and was available only with the 400 and only on the heavier cars. >> >> Not so much a starting gear as a "passing" gear. Nice smooth "downshift" >> unlike shifting gears - so as to not disturb the passengers and simply >> smoothly allow a nice increase in power to swoop around the peasants. >> >VP convertors did give a noticeable diiference at lower speeds and they >were easily rewired to be switched low/high at will. Oddly enough, their >reason for existence was to reduce creep when idling in gear with the car >stopped. > > ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:32:42 -0700 Subject: Re: Non list-chasing ghosts. >I'm currently helping a guy put together an engine for an antique >stock car. In the process, I've met several people who bragged about >these cams. I'm curious about them now, and want to throw some >numbers into my engine simulations. Seems like they were pretty hot, >and now you don't even hear about RB. > >Since you're on the line, know of any reasonable sources for a set of >fuelie heade? Gotta be straight plug. >Shannen Hi Shannen--- Said it before, mebbe you missed it--RB is still in business, somewhere in MD. Gotta phone # buried somewhere. Jim is well aware of newer tech stuff, not a ghost or dinosaur at all. Regards, Greg > >EFISYSTEMS@xxx.com wrote: >> >> No offense intended Shannen,,,,, but what about newer lobe technology!!!!!! >> -Carl Summers >> ------------------------------ From: Pat Ford Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:37:09 -0500 Subject: RE: Switch Pitch On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Guenther,Max wrote: sounds like the new tc's have much more slippage, is that a correct assumption?? and the lockup tc is an attemp to restore what was lost ( I was a mechanic at a bmw,saab,subaru dealer in the 80's and live in car hell -> salted roads so I never got my hands on one of these) > Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:34:34 -0500 > From: Guenther,Max > To: "'diy_efi@xxx.edu'" > Subject: RE: Switch Pitch > > I'd have to agree. I did not know what it was for in my 63 Riviera. > Substituted a 65 Riv engine and trans and did not connect the Variable > pitch switch. Had to idle it up kinda high so it would idle in gear. > Chirped everytime I went from park to drive. Once I found out what it > was it turned out to be very smooth. > > > > >On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Robert Harris wrote: > > > >> The switch pitch convertor was used to replace low gear of the four speed > >> hydramatic transmission when GM upgraded the design to the > >>"Turbo-Hydromatic" > >> and was available only with the 400 and only on the heavier cars. > >> > >> Not so much a starting gear as a "passing" gear. Nice smooth "downshift" > >> unlike shifting gears - so as to not disturb the passengers and simply > >> smoothly allow a nice increase in power to swoop around the peasants. > >> > >VP convertors did give a noticeable diiference at lower speeds and they > >were easily rewired to be switched low/high at will. Oddly enough, their > >reason for existence was to reduce creep when idling in gear with the car > >stopped. > > > > > Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #62 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".