DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, 27 January 1999 Volume 04 : Number 065 In this issue: Re cubic bucks. Re: Switch Pitch Re: Non list-chasing ghosts. Re: PROMs and Copyrights... Re: Switch Pitch Re: FW: Electronic timing advance RE: PROMs and Copyrights... Re: VSS Re: VSS Re: 92 Camaro ECM Injector query RE: Switch Pitch Re: Cubic Dollars RE: VSS RE: Switch Pitch Re: Cubic Dollars Re: Cubic Dollars sorry about that RE: Cubic Dollars Re: sorry about that Re: VSS RE: 1.8 TBI and the 7747 See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: talltom@xxx.com Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:06:33 -0800 Subject: Re cubic bucks. In Oregon it's Article 1, section 8 of the state constitution. It sez "the jury shall judge the law and the fact". The hand you a note when you go into the jury pool, that while technically not a lie, it's the most artful job of truth stretching I've ever seen. It just so happens that the secretary of state was in the jury pool that I was, and I proved to him and a high school history teacher that the jury IS the law, with a book that the secretary had published. What the judge asks is are you willing to follow the law, which I was, but I did not tell him that I knew more about than he was about to admit. You damn right I'll follow the law, but he wouldn't like WHICH law. ------------------------------ From: "Gary Derian" Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:54:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Switch Pitch It is an oversimplification to call the DynaFlow a single speed transmission. The various elements of the torque converter were connected to various elements of a planetary gearset. The result is closer to a continuously variable transmission than it is to a single speed one. Gary Derian >> >The VP convertor as used on TH400s and ST300s is a 3 element convertor >with adjustable stator vane angles. The DynoFlush was a one-speed trans >with a multi-element convertor [cant remember, about 5 elements, IIRC] it >did have a switch pitch feature but it was hydraulically actuated. Not >interchangeable... > ------------------------------ From: "Gary Derian" Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:02:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Non list-chasing ghosts. My recollection is that Donahue used Toronado CV joints in the ends of the axle housing to get the negative camber. Gary Derian > >(The Javelin in question was the same one that had a solid rear axle with >about 1-1/2 degrees of negative camber on each rear wheel. This was done by >means of (I think) a curved spline on the outer end of a full floating axle >shaft. Pretty cute stuff. No wonder the class got sorta expensive to >run!!!) :-) > >Regards, Greg > ------------------------------ From: "David A. Cooley" Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:19:29 -0500 Subject: Re: PROMs and Copyrights... At 07:26 PM 1/26/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-> > covers timing curves, fuel curves etc... if there was, changing the >-> advance > weights in your old distributor ignition car would have >-> been illegal. > > If it's a vehicle that falls under Federal smog regulations, changing >the advance weights in the distributor *is* illegal. The Fed doesn't >bother to enforce their own regs; they pressure the local governments >into being the bad guys. > But it's not copyright infringement. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== ------------------------------ From: Pat Ford Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:39:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Switch Pitch On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Shannen Durphey wrote: > Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:36:42 -0500 > From: Shannen Durphey > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: Switch Pitch > > Pat Ford wrote: > > > > On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Guenther,Max wrote: > > > > ( I was a mechanic at a bmw,saab,subaru dealer in the 80's and live in > > car hell -> salted roads so I never got my hands on one of these) > > > The tcc is an attempt to reduce 10% or so slippage present in the > converter. Where is car hell located? > Shannen > in the ottawa - kingston area of ontario Canada ( I live near kingston and commute 140 km each day) Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ From: rauscher@xxx.com Date: Wed, 27 Jan 99 08:47:51 -0500 Subject: Re: FW: Electronic timing advance Ah yes, this is the 64thousand dollar question, what is the KS output when a knock occurs. Just how high (amplitude), is the signal? Anybody out there ever look at the knock signal with a scope, and can help us with the amplitude and possibly the period? My scope needs 120VAC and a second person to drive whilst running it. Hmm, I might just know someone who can help... This won't be easy, but I might give it a go. BobR. Bruce wrote: >Hmm, ya got me wondering now, cause mine wouldn't trigger very easy. Took >12v as I recall.. > Also, the KS wouldn't it be very "spikish" in nature, rather than a >square wave, unless the on duration was very short. >Bruce BobR wrote: >>My results seem to be a little different then what you have found, but I'm >>not done yet. My first step was to hook the knock sensor output up to the >>scope and rap on it with a metal rod. It looks just like you would expect >>from a microphone, with a max output of ~3v (with a 'good' strike). >> - -- ------------------------------ From: Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:58:15 -0600 Subject: RE: PROMs and Copyrights... Hi David, Don't know if you got my post awhile back, but the OTC2000 arrived alive and well thanks again. Don > -----Original Message----- > From: David A. Cooley [SMTP:n5xmt@xxx.net] > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 7:19 AM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: PROMs and Copyrights... > > At 07:26 PM 1/26/99 -0500, you wrote: > > > >-> > covers timing curves, fuel curves etc... if there was, changing the > >-> advance > weights in your old distributor ignition car would have > >-> been illegal. > > > > If it's a vehicle that falls under Federal smog regulations, changing > >the advance weights in the distributor *is* illegal. The Fed doesn't > >bother to enforce their own regs; they pressure the local governments > >into being the bad guys. > > > > But it's not copyright infringement. > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be > approximated. > =========================================================== ------------------------------ From: rauscher@xxx.com Date: Wed, 27 Jan 99 09:00:30 -0500 Subject: Re: VSS Mike Pilkenton wrote: >Could someone tell me what functions the VSS signal might affect in the 92 >3.1L V6 Camaro ECM. The motor/ECM came off a manual tranny car and my >project car application won't have this signal available unless I install an >aftermarket speed sensor. Do I need this signal? > >Mike >V6 Opel GT Mike, there is a ton of information in the archives, to go the DIY EFI home page and follow the links. Personally, I believe that the VSS is important, there is also info on what the signal looks like and some ideas and also off the shelf solutions to this. http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/diy_efi I got the following from there: the following text is from: http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/SpeedSensors_Speedometer.html - -------- quoted text from webpage ------------ Without a VSS, the Chevrolet Fuel Injected engines will not run correctly, and they will not pass a smog test. Basically, the VSS tells the ECM how fast the vehicle is going. Most people think the VSS is only used for the lock-up torque converter. The VSS is also used to control the EGR valve, the charcoal canister purge valve, the electric cooling fans, idle speed, and air/fuel ratio. This is all explained in the Chevrolet shop manuals. It must be emphasized that the VSS is used to control the idle speed when the vehicle is moving. Without the VSS, a vehicle may have stalling problems under certain conditions. Needless to say, this is dangerous. Raising the minimum idle speed with the adjusting screw can eliminate stalling, but the engine will still not run optimally without a VSS. A lot of people think that running "closed loop" is best for fuel mileage. Closed loop simply means that the oxygen sensor is being used to monitor the fuel/air ratio. Some of the Chevrolet fuel-injected engines are programmed to run lean under certain conditions (called "highway mode") to improve fuel mileage during steady cruise conditions. Without a VSS, the engine computer (ECM) will not get the correct signals to run the engine for best fuel mileage. There are a lot of programs in the ECM that depend on the VSS. For best operation, the VSS needs to be connected and functioning. - -------- end quoted text from webpage ------------ Here is a list of things affected by the VSS sensor. This list covers three different engines, two of them 4 cylinder TBIs. All three applications are from the same era as the 1226867 2.0 TBI. Code 24 TCC lockup (auto) Upshift light (manual) IAC position learning (above 30 MPH) Cooling fan control (not used in these applications) Determine if manual transmission is in gear (compare VSS vs RPM) Disable some idle speed control if manual in gear (see previous item) Disable idle learn if moving Enable idle learn if moving with manual in neutral Prevent DecelFuelCutOff if manual in neutral Prevent DecelFuelCutOff at very slow speeds Top speed limiter (not used in these applications) The third application adds one more item: Amount to open IAC and rate at which to close it upon throttle closing Note - the idle speed control logic is a rats nest of complicated code. It is hard to figure what really happens. - -- ------------------------------ From: "Gregory A. Parmer" Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:06:24 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: VSS On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Mike Pilkenton wrote: > Could someone tell me what functions the VSS signal might affect in the 92 > 3.1L V6 Camaro ECM. The motor/ECM came off a manual tranny car and my > project car application won't have this signal available unless I install an > aftermarket speed sensor. Do I need this signal? Hey Mike. For the long version, check the archives...but in short...Idle, deceleration enleanment, EGR, and dashpot, I think. Did I mention idle? :) Ya need the signal. The idle air control (IAC) re-learns its position when you reach 30mph or so. I installed mine w/o VSS and it was OK (not good, but OK) until the first time I took out the IAC. Then all heck broke loose until I installed VSS. - -greg ------------------------------ From: rauscher@xxx.com Date: Wed, 27 Jan 99 09:13:37 -0500 Subject: Re: 92 Camaro ECM OK, this ECM uses a 27C256 EPROM, that is soldered into a carrier. You can unsolder it and install a socket, as you will need to remove and replace it in order to change EPROMS. There are some list members that have been dissecting the '730 ECM, the only problem is that they have been working on the V8 code. The V6 code is completely different, I checked. To start, goto the archives, http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/diy_efi, and search on various keywords: prog, 101, 730 are good ones to start with. Bruce wrote a series of prog 101 articles that explain a lot of how the tables look and what they do. Oh, there is also info on how to take care of the VATS. BobR. Mike wrote: >Could someone please help educate me on the 92 Camaro 3.1L V6 ECM program. >I am new to the programming scene and don't really understand the ECM >programs but I do do have a strong EE background. What I would like to >learn is how to reprogram or program my own EEPROMs for this application. I >remeber a message some time ago of someone offering this service to list >members?? > > Can anybody give me a simple basic conversion of the ECM program so that >I might learn how these programs work. Has anybody decoded the 92 Camaro >3.1L V6 program? Sorry for all the questions but I have to start somewhere. > >Mike - -- ------------------------------ From: Fredrik Skog Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:20:14 +0100 (MET) Subject: Injector query Hi all! I have got hold of 4 injectors wich is suposed to flow well. No one seems to now what they really are though. Is there anyone out there who nows somthing about these? They are black with a blue stripe painted all the way around it. They have a bosch type o-ring connection and have dual spray holes. They have the following numbers printed on one side: D5162FA And the following on the other side: 913512 The guy who had them before me, told me that thay are from SAAB's test institute here in sweden. Thanx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Student at the Department of Computing Science Umeå University Fredrik Skog E-mail: c95fsg@xxx.se Taffelstråket 51 WWW: http://www.acc.umu.se/~skog/ 903 53 Umeå Phone: +46-(0)90-136365 Living and dying laughing and crying Once you have seen it you will never be the same Life in the fast lane is just how it seems Hard and it is heavy dirty and mean /MetallicA ------------------------------ From: "Ernst Denbroeder" Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:51:11 -0500 Subject: RE: Switch Pitch Pat - your in my backyard! I live down the road in Belleville... my wife works in Kingston. Cheers! Ernst. ______________________________________________________________ _ _ ___ ___ _____ ___ _ | \| |/ _ \| _ \_ _| __| | Ernst denBroeder | .` | (_) | ` / | | | _|| |_ Test Engineering |_|\_|\___/|_|_\ |_| |___|___| Carrier Solutions N E T W O R K S ernstd@xxx.com 250 Sidney Street Tel: +1 613 966 0100 Belleville ESN: 6 343 3636 Ontario K8N 5B7 Fax: +1 613 967 5336 CANADA ESN: 6 343 5336 ______________________________________________________________ > > The tcc is an attempt to reduce 10% or so slippage present in the > > converter. Where is car hell located? > > Shannen > > > > in the ottawa - kingston area of ontario Canada > ( I live near kingston and commute 140 km each day) > > Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com > QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com > (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews > (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ From: "David Sagers" Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:02:59 -0700 Subject: Re: Cubic Dollars Expelled, if you are lucky. A lady in Colorado was recently prosecuted because she failed to reveal her intentions to judge the law as well as the case. She made the mistake of discussing this opening in jury deliberations. Another juror informed the judge, and since the judge was interested in writing a book about the Fully Informed Jury movement, the judge charged her with some sort of misconduct, and I believe she was convicted. >>> Raymond C Drouillard 01/26 10:08 PM >>> Greg, That is very interesting. Where can I get documentation on that fact? I am always interested in what the constitution REALLY says, rather than some of the more interesting interpretations that I have seen. The next time I am called to jury duty, I would like to have in my hands documentation that I have the right to judge the law as well as the defendant. That would keep me from being forced to convict someone of a crime that shouldn't exist. Of course, the real effect of such paperwork would probablly be to get me excused from the jury. I would need to find a way to keep that from happening. Ray Drouillard On Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:39:39 -0700 bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) writes: >>Scully agrees with that one Mulder. > >Yep--and remember that John Adams (yes, that one) argued that the Bill >of >Rights was unnecessary cuz "NO JURY WOULD EVER CONVICT ANYBODY UNDER >AN >UNREASONABLE, UNJUST LAW, ANYWAY!" Jury nullification was an accepted >part >of English (and thus American, unless you are from Louisiana) law from >when >the Magna Carta was signed until the Rockefellers, Carnegies, Mellons, >Morgans, Harrimans, etc. told the gummint that it should henceforth be >called "JURY LAWLESSNESS!!" The framers considered the jury of peers >to be >the ultimate check and balance in their newly designed system of >government. Really, the law on this subject has NOT changed, they just >try >to tell us that it has!!! Jurors have the right to judge the law as >well as >the facts in any case before them! Think about it!! > >Regards, Greg >> >> >>---Robert Harris wrote: >>> >>> The question of your rights to hack GM or other ECU's vs the >>Manufacturers >>> boil down to two words - Cubic Dollars. If or when it is >>perceived by GM et >>> al to be in GM's interest to end the practice, it will end. GM >has >>> historically crushed competition without regard to anything other >>than it was >>> good for GM. Count on it. >>> >>> Start with sheer absolute weight of lawyers - how many thousand can >>you afford >>> to defend with? Then if you do start to get an edge - how many >cubic >>> lobbyist can you afford? GM can and has had the law routinely >>changed to suit >>> GM. >>> >>> When it was in Bill Gates interest to crush OS-2, cheap counterfeit >>windows >>> flooded the market. Now that it is not - the software police are >>out in force >>> and MS openly states that it intends to have the 100,000 $ >>prescribed by law >>> fines levied on individuals to end the practice. Bill Gates can >and >>is taking >>> everything including the house of anyone they catch. >>> >>> Before you start to whine and snivel about rights - think campaign >>> contributions. How many bucks to how many Klintonian officials >>campaigns can >>> you fatten vs GM. Not fair? - who said GM or life or God was >fair? >>> >>> And do not forget that the tax paid gnomes and drones of the evil >>empire >>> AmeriKa will gladly crush you with the full weight and force of law >>if it >>> pleases their masters. Think not - remember Janet Reno's barbecue >>where 84 >>> people found out what happens when thief religion was not BATF >>approved. >>> >>> Am I cynical - absolutely. Do I disapprove - absolutely NOT. Do >>it, enjoy >>> the holiday - but don't be surprised when Cubic Dollars descend to >>end the >>> practice. >>> >>> 1963 Ford C-600 Prison Bus Conversion "Home" >>> 1971 Lincoln Continental 460 "Christine" >>> 1972 "Whale" Mustang awaiting transplant >>> 1978 Dodge Long Bed Peeek Up "Bundymobile" >>> >>> Habaneros - not just for breakfast anymore >>> >> >>_________________________________________________________ >>DO YOU YAHOO!? >>Get your free @xxx.com > > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ From: "Guenther,Max" Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:33:21 -0500 Subject: RE: VSS What do you do if you dont have one? Can you put one in a turbo 400? >---------- >From: rauscher@xxx.com] >Reply To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 9:00 AM >To: DIY_EFI@xxx.edu >Subject: Re: VSS > > > >Mike Pilkenton wrote: > >>Could someone tell me what functions the VSS signal might affect in the 92 >>3.1L V6 Camaro ECM. The motor/ECM came off a manual tranny car and my >>project car application won't have this signal available unless I install an >>aftermarket speed sensor. Do I need this signal? >> >>Mike >>V6 Opel GT > > >Mike, there is a ton of information in the archives, to go the DIY EFI home >page and follow the links. Personally, I believe that the VSS is important, >there is also info on what the signal looks like and some ideas and also >off the shelf solutions to this. > >http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/diy_efi > >I got the following from there: > >the following text is from: >http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/SpeedSensors_Speedometer.html > >-------- quoted text from webpage ------------ > >Without a VSS, the Chevrolet Fuel Injected engines will not run correctly, >and they will not pass a smog test. > >Basically, the VSS tells the ECM how fast the vehicle is going. Most >people think the VSS is only used for the lock-up torque converter. The >VSS is also used to control the EGR valve, the charcoal canister purge >valve, the electric cooling fans, idle speed, and air/fuel ratio. This is >all explained in the Chevrolet shop manuals. > >It must be emphasized that the VSS is used to control the idle speed when >the vehicle is moving. Without the VSS, a vehicle may have stalling >problems under certain conditions. Needless to say, this is dangerous. >Raising the minimum idle speed with the adjusting screw can eliminate >stalling, but the engine will still not run optimally without a VSS. > >A lot of people think that running "closed loop" is best for fuel mileage. >Closed loop simply means that the oxygen sensor is being used to monitor >the fuel/air ratio. Some of the Chevrolet fuel-injected engines are >programmed to run lean under certain conditions (called "highway mode") to >improve fuel mileage during steady cruise conditions. Without a VSS, the >engine computer (ECM) will not get the correct signals to run the engine >for best fuel mileage. There are a lot of programs in the ECM that depend >on the VSS. For best operation, the VSS needs to be connected and >functioning. > >-------- end quoted text from webpage ------------ > >Here is a list of things affected by the VSS sensor. This list covers >three different engines, two of them 4 cylinder TBIs. All three >applications are from the same era as the 1226867 2.0 TBI. > >Code 24 >TCC lockup (auto) >Upshift light (manual) >IAC position learning (above 30 MPH) >Cooling fan control (not used in these applications) >Determine if manual transmission is in gear (compare VSS vs RPM) >Disable some idle speed control if manual in gear (see previous item) >Disable idle learn if moving >Enable idle learn if moving with manual in neutral >Prevent DecelFuelCutOff if manual in neutral >Prevent DecelFuelCutOff at very slow speeds >Top speed limiter (not used in these applications) > >The third application adds one more item: > >Amount to open IAC and rate at which to close it upon throttle closing > >Note - the idle speed control logic is a rats nest of complicated code. >It is hard to figure what really happens. > >-- > > > ------------------------------ From: Pat Ford Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:53:33 -0500 Subject: RE: Switch Pitch On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Ernst Denbroeder wrote: > Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:51:11 -0500 > From: Ernst Denbroeder > To: "'diy_efi@xxx.edu'" > Subject: RE: Switch Pitch > > Pat - your in my backyard! I live down the road in Belleville... my wife > works in Kingston. > > Cheers! > Ernst. > ______________________________________________________________ > _ _ ___ ___ _____ ___ _ > | \| |/ _ \| _ \_ _| __| | Ernst denBroeder > | .` | (_) | ` / | | | _|| |_ Test Engineering > |_|\_|\___/|_|_\ |_| |___|___| Carrier Solutions > N E T W O R K S ernstd@xxx.com > > 250 Sidney Street Tel: +1 613 966 0100 > Belleville ESN: 6 343 3636 > Ontario K8N 5B7 Fax: +1 613 967 5336 > CANADA ESN: 6 343 5336 > ______________________________________________________________ > Seem to be in a related job as well. are you h/w guy or s/w? I have family in belleville.Do you remember quite a while back (mid 80's) there was was a hotel owner taken hostage ( the motor otel, I think it is near your work) she sang hymms and prayed so loudly the gunman through himself out the window. yeap thats my aunt is the subaru dealer in your town still the maytag dealer ( I think it was front street motors) > > > The tcc is an attempt to reduce 10% or so slippage present in the > > > converter. Where is car hell located? > > > Shannen > > > > > > > in the ottawa - kingston area of ontario Canada > > ( I live near kingston and commute 140 km each day) > > > > Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com > > QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com > > (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews > > (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 > Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ From: DC Smith Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:00:48 -0600 Subject: Re: Cubic Dollars Raymond C Drouillard wrote: > > Greg, > > That is very interesting. Where can I get documentation on that fact? I > am always interested in what the constitution REALLY says, rather than > some of the more interesting interpretations that I have seen. > Actually, Ray.. If you are looking for someone to give you an interpretation of what the united States Constitution says, you only need to look in the mirror. (it's on the net) Read it and believe it. The united States Constitution wasn't written by a bunch of lawyers (and liars, apologies to any liars). The way you read it, is the way the framing fathers meant it to be. The people trying to interpret it in any other manner than it reads, are trying to manipulate it to suit their needs. > The next time I am called to jury duty, I would like to have in my hands > documentation that I have the right to judge the law as well as the > defendant. That would keep me from being forced to convict someone of a > crime that shouldn't exist. You can do a search on the net for the FIJA or the Fully Informed Jury Association. The FIJA is pretty much labeled as a bunch of nuts. That is how the power mongers like to make people ignore the truth, by passing them off as a bunch of nuts. You won't see the truth on the 6 o'clock news, for sure. If you bring the subject of jury nullification (or anything close), when you are called to jury duty, you WILL be dismissed. I don't know (or care) about what anyone else thinks on the subject, but our judicial system (among others) is WAY off base from the intentions that were put forth in the Constitution. IMO Uh.. EFI list.. um, sorry.. I just put together a Sable 4 door and a station wagon (bad motors.. yeah, I know, she's spoiled), for my wife.. Both have a EFI V-6. (really NICE cars!) :) She doesn't try to snatch my Buick as much anymore. BTW, I think I have the Peugeot sold! (It has some Bosch system) *********************************************************************** Dan Smith AOSEE / CET GSCA# 1459 12.13@112 St.Charles, Missouri uSA mailto:dcsmith@xxx.org http://www.tetranet.net/users/morepoweral *********************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: steve ravet Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:13:50 -0600 Subject: Re: Cubic Dollars Ray, have a look at the fully informed jury association at www.fija.org. FIJA espouses jury nullification as the most fundamental check and balance in the US justice system. The Supreme Court has ruled more than once that juries have the right to judge the law, and the potential punishment, in addition to the facts at hand. Look for Sparf and Hansen vs. United States. In this decision, however, the Supreme Court ruled that judges did not have to inform jurors of this fact. With the net result that today judges lie outright to jurors, saying that the judge will supply jurors with the law, and the jury will only decide the facts. If you go into voir dire and volunteer this information you will certainly be excused from jury duty, but you may be able to introduce the concept to your fellow jurors. If you don't speak up when the judge asks you if you will follow his instructions, and he finds out that you discussed nullification issues during deliberation, you may be charged with contempt. This happened to Laura Kriho, a juror in a minor drug possession case in Colorado. What she said in deliberation (supposed to be totally secret) was leaked to the judge. He was infuriated and charged her with contempt. The fact that a juror can be charged with contempt for doing something the judge doesn't like should be absolutely shocking, but it's received little or no attention. So if you keep silent during voir dire, and are selected for duty, then it might be best to keep your mouth shut during deliberations and just hang the jury (if that's what you believe should happen). - --steve Raymond C Drouillard wrote: > > Greg, > > That is very interesting. Where can I get documentation on that fact? I > am always interested in what the constitution REALLY says, rather than > some of the more interesting interpretations that I have seen. > > The next time I am called to jury duty, I would like to have in my hands > documentation that I have the right to judge the law as well as the > defendant. That would keep me from being forced to convict someone of a > crime that shouldn't exist. > > Of course, the real effect of such paperwork would probablly be to get me > excused from the jury. I would need to find a way to keep that from > happening. > ------------------------------ From: steve ravet Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:15:02 -0600 Subject: sorry about that I apologize for the public followup to Ray's question about jury nullification, I intended to send that privately. Certainly not EFI related. - --steve ------------------------------ From: "Guenther,Max" Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:55:02 -0500 Subject: RE: Cubic Dollars EFI or not, Its worth talkin about! Its why we live where we do! Made in the USA Max >---------- >From: DC Smith[SMTP:dcsmith@xxx.org] >Reply To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 11:00 AM >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >Subject: Re: Cubic Dollars > >Raymond C Drouillard wrote: >> >> Greg, >> >> That is very interesting. Where can I get documentation on that fact? I >> am always interested in what the constitution REALLY says, rather than >> some of the more interesting interpretations that I have seen. >> > > > Actually, Ray.. > If you are looking for someone to give you an interpretation of what >the united States Constitution says, you only need to look in the >mirror. (it's on the net) Read it and believe it. The united States >Constitution wasn't written by a bunch of lawyers (and liars, apologies >to any liars). The way you read it, is the way the framing fathers meant >it to be. > The people trying to interpret it in any other manner than it reads, >are trying to manipulate it to suit their needs. > >> The next time I am called to jury duty, I would like to have in my hands >> documentation that I have the right to judge the law as well as the >> defendant. That would keep me from being forced to convict someone of a >> crime that shouldn't exist. > > You can do a search on the net for the FIJA or the Fully Informed Jury >Association. The FIJA is pretty much labeled as a bunch of nuts. That is >how the power mongers like to make people ignore the truth, by passing >them off as a bunch of nuts. You won't see the truth on the 6 o'clock >news, for sure. > > If you bring the subject of jury nullification (or anything close), >when you are called to jury duty, you WILL be dismissed. > I don't know (or care) about what anyone else thinks on the subject, >but our judicial system (among others) is WAY off base from the >intentions that were put forth in the Constitution. IMO > >Uh.. EFI list.. um, sorry.. I just put together a Sable 4 door and a >station wagon (bad motors.. yeah, I know, she's spoiled), for my wife.. >Both have a EFI V-6. (really NICE cars!) :) She doesn't try to snatch my >Buick as much anymore. BTW, I think I have the Peugeot sold! (It has >some Bosch system) > >*********************************************************************** >Dan Smith AOSEE / CET GSCA# 1459 12.13@112 >St.Charles, Missouri uSA >mailto:dcsmith@xxx.org >http://www.tetranet.net/users/morepoweral >*********************************************************************** > ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:14:55 -0500 Subject: Re: sorry about that I, for one, am glad you messed up. Shannen steve ravet wrote: > > I apologize for the public followup to Ray's question about jury > nullification, I intended to send that privately. Certainly not EFI > related. > > --steve ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:54:25 -0500 Subject: Re: VSS There are VSS units available which connect to the speedometer cable. In 1989, there were THM 400 trans used in pickups with fuel injection which had a VSS. You would need to go to the dealership and to determine that the conversion is possible, and which parts are needed. Guenther,Max wrote: > > What do you do if you dont have one? Can you put one in a turbo 400? > > >---------- > >From: rauscher@xxx.com] > >Reply To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > >Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 9:00 AM > >To: DIY_EFI@xxx.edu > >Subject: Re: VSS > > > > > > > >Mike Pilkenton wrote: > > > >>Could someone tell me what functions the VSS signal might affect in the 92 > >>3.1L V6 Camaro ECM. The motor/ECM came off a manual tranny car and my > >>project car application won't have this signal available unless I install an > >>aftermarket speed sensor. Do I need this signal? > >> > >>Mike > >>V6 Opel GT > > > > > >Mike, there is a ton of information in the archives, to go the DIY EFI home > >page and follow the links. Personally, I believe that the VSS is important, > >there is also info on what the signal looks like and some ideas and also > >off the shelf solutions to this. > > > >http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/diy_efi > > > >I got the following from there: > > > >the following text is from: > >http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/SpeedSensors_Speedometer.html > > > >-------- quoted text from webpage ------------ > > > >Without a VSS, the Chevrolet Fuel Injected engines will not run correctly, > >and they will not pass a smog test. > > > >Basically, the VSS tells the ECM how fast the vehicle is going. Most > >people think the VSS is only used for the lock-up torque converter. The > >VSS is also used to control the EGR valve, the charcoal canister purge > >valve, the electric cooling fans, idle speed, and air/fuel ratio. This is > >all explained in the Chevrolet shop manuals. > > > >It must be emphasized that the VSS is used to control the idle speed when > >the vehicle is moving. Without the VSS, a vehicle may have stalling > >problems under certain conditions. Needless to say, this is dangerous. > >Raising the minimum idle speed with the adjusting screw can eliminate > >stalling, but the engine will still not run optimally without a VSS. > > > >A lot of people think that running "closed loop" is best for fuel mileage. > >Closed loop simply means that the oxygen sensor is being used to monitor > >the fuel/air ratio. Some of the Chevrolet fuel-injected engines are > >programmed to run lean under certain conditions (called "highway mode") to > >improve fuel mileage during steady cruise conditions. Without a VSS, the > >engine computer (ECM) will not get the correct signals to run the engine > >for best fuel mileage. There are a lot of programs in the ECM that depend > >on the VSS. For best operation, the VSS needs to be connected and > >functioning. > > > >-------- end quoted text from webpage ------------ > > > >Here is a list of things affected by the VSS sensor. This list covers > >three different engines, two of them 4 cylinder TBIs. All three > >applications are from the same era as the 1226867 2.0 TBI. > > > >Code 24 > >TCC lockup (auto) > >Upshift light (manual) > >IAC position learning (above 30 MPH) > >Cooling fan control (not used in these applications) > >Determine if manual transmission is in gear (compare VSS vs RPM) > >Disable some idle speed control if manual in gear (see previous item) > >Disable idle learn if moving > >Enable idle learn if moving with manual in neutral > >Prevent DecelFuelCutOff if manual in neutral > >Prevent DecelFuelCutOff at very slow speeds > >Top speed limiter (not used in these applications) > > > >The third application adds one more item: > > > >Amount to open IAC and rate at which to close it upon throttle closing > > > >Note - the idle speed control logic is a rats nest of complicated code. > >It is hard to figure what really happens. > > > >-- > > > > > > ------------------------------ From: "Stowe, Ted-SEA" Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:04:58 -0800 Subject: RE: 1.8 TBI and the 7747 ok, but for a small 4 cyl, why would I want a 747 vs a 165 ?? I woudln't know which tables to modify etc. just curious, I'm just about ready to go out and find a 165 ecu. Ted Stowe > -----Original Message----- > From: EFISYSTEMS@xxx.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 12:49 AM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: 1.8 TBI and the 7747 > > I hate to blow it for the rest of us that know but in a 747 and others > just > get a calpak from a 4 cyl(ex. S-10) and plug it in to a 747.....its just a > resistor network that gets the processor to understand the ticks while > cranking that it's a 4 cyl......then make sure you change the cyl select > in > the lookup tables so the "timing" is correct......blah blah and then some > -Carl Summers > > In a message dated 1/23/99 8:45:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, > nacelp@xxx.net > writes: > > << Subj: Re: 1.8 TBI and the 7747 > Date: 1/23/99 8:45:25 PM Pacific Standard Time > From: nacelp@xxx.net (Bruce Plecan) > Sender: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu > Reply-to: diy_efi@xxx.edu > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > > > I knew, you knew that, well maybe a couple other guys,do > Bruce > > > >> Oh, and what 4 cyl application used a 747?. > >> Bruce > >None.. > >Mike V > > > >> ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #65 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. 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