DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, 27 January 1999 Volume 04 : Number 067 In this issue: home dyno kit?? Re: Injector query RE: Intake Runner Length Re: VSS Subject: 2:1 Internal & Spur Gear RE: Honda ident. request Example DFI maps. Re: home dyno kit?? Re: Honda ident. request Re: home dyno kit?? Re: 2:1 Internal & Spur Gear Re: Subject: 2:1 Internal & Spur Gear (no subject) Re: home dyno kit?? Cubic Dollars Re: Subject: 2:1 Internal & Spur Gear Re: Cubic Dollars Re: Injector query RE: home dyno kit?? 92 cavalier ECM info!? Re: 2:1 Internal & Spur Gear Re: 2:1 Internal & Spur Gear RE: Switch Pitch Re: 92 cavalier ECM info!? '165 donor vehicle needed Re: Project 101 note RE: home dyno kit?? RE: home dyno kit?? Bosch/Buick crossbreed Re: Switch Pitch Re: 92 cavalier ECM info!? Re: home dyno kit?? Cubic Dollars RE: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ross Corrigan Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:49:25 -0800 Subject: home dyno kit?? just passing along this interesting 'kit' I just caught off another list "Found this pretty cool looking program that acts as a home dyno and produces HP and torque curves for 40 bucks and an inductive pickup off your timing light it seems alot cheaper than a G-tech. Everybodys got a PC and a recorder of some kind don't they? The website is listed below: http://www.charm.net/~mchaney/homedyno/dynokit.htm" Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada '80 327ZX IZCC#255, Edmonton Z-car Club #44, British Columbia ZCR Life's a journey, not a destination.. Enjoy the pitstops and maximize the straights mailto:zxv@xxx.ca *New ICQ # 11549358 http://home.iSTAR.ca/~zxv/index.shtml http://207.212.212.139/~corrigan/gearheads/pics/wheels/sirbg.jpg ------------------------------ From: ECMnut@xxx.com Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:44:26 EST Subject: Re: Injector query Doesn't appear to be a Bosch number.. Any logo or designon it? Mike V > hey are black with a blue stripe painted all the way around it. They have > a bosch type o-ring connection and have dual spray holes. > They have the following numbers printed on one side: D5162FA > And the following on the other side: 913512 ------------------------------ From: Jemison Richard Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:56:27 -0500 Subject: RE: Intake Runner Length Tim, Runner dia affects flow dynamics. The larger the dia, the more air totally will flow but the slower it will move and the slower the column of air in the intake tube will react to changes in throttle position (causing lags in response). There is a formula for determining these runners but it escapes me right now. Check out Smith and Morrison's "Scientific Design of Intake and Exhaust Systems). This is in print and available through Amazon among others. rick > -----Original Message----- > From: Van Setten, Tim (AZ75) [SMTP:Tim.Van.Setten@xxx.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 4:14 PM > To: 'DIY-EFI' > Subject: Intake Runner Length > > Hi All. > I've been reading your posts here for awhile and learned alot, but now > it's > time to ask for help. We have been fuel injecting our sand rails here in > the southwest now for about 10 years or so. We are using a speed density > system and also a dual-fuel setup. We turbo charge our little girlie > 2300cc > VW's in a 900 lb car and head to the sand dunes. The dual fuel is > accomplished by adding a second set of injectors and injecting methanol > only > under boost. This makes these air-cooled engines very happy and stops all > of the pinging problems etc. associated with 15 lbs of boost. > Now we are playing around with the drive-ability issues. We want to try > different intake manifold combinations. > The question is: What size and length should the intake runners be and > also > what size should the intake plenum be? Bruce Bowling's program addresses > the length, but he left out the "diameter" of the runner and I have to > believe that it will make a difference on how big it is. Also, the > relationship of the plenum, is it sized to the max rpm, or to engine > displacement, or what? Any comments would be very helpful. > Tim ------------------------------ From: Todd Israels Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:08:18 -0500 Subject: Re: VSS At 09:01 PM 1/26/99 -0800, you wrote: >Could someone tell me what functions the VSS signal might affect in the 92 >3.1L V6 Camaro ECM. The motor/ECM came off a manual tranny car and my >project car application won't have this signal available unless I install an >aftermarket speed sensor. Do I need this signal? > >Mike >V6 Opel GT > > > The VSS affects the operation of the speed cut out(usualy set at max for stock tiers, but aerodinamic stability can be a factor if deffeted). Accuracy of signal(pulses per mile) is improtant to work as desired. The VSS is also factored in to the TCC operation, and possibly shift light and I assume requires an accurate signal. One of my books states that VSS is also used for idle stablization and driveability at low RPM. In thier descriptions this appears to be a Moving/still switch and no great accuracy required. A simple /2 of VSS signal will raise speed cut out and not affect driveability but do not know the affects on TCC operation. ------------------------------ From: Ken Mayer Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:22:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: Subject: 2:1 Internal & Spur Gear > From: Dan Llewellyn2 > Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:19:35 -0500 > > This is not exactly EFI related - but my local sources have > been unable to help me. > > I am trying to build an experimental transmission. It uses > an internal gear (teeth on the inside) and a spur gear (teeth > on the outside) that rotates inside the first gear. My only > requirement is that the internal gear needs to have exactly > twice the teeth of the spur gear (and mesh, of course). > > I went some automatic transmission shops, but all the sets > of internal and planetary gears won't work because the planets > are too small. I was hoping internal and planets from different > sets might work, but haven't found a match. I figured that > buying some used automatic transmission gears would be > the cheapest way to get some quality gears. > > Any ideas? Post your question to rec.crafts.metalworking. There are a number of sources for such gears. Also take a look at the suppliers list on the metalworking faq. You can reach it through www.loganact.com, just follow the links. Ken :-) ------------------------------ From: Mike Pitts Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:26:42 -0500 Subject: RE: Honda ident. request Thanks for the reply Steve. I already know the number of the O2 sensor, what I need is a way to identify the *ECM* used in the same vehicle. I want to go junkyarding and scrounging for one (ECM not the O2...although...if the O2 is there I will certainly snag it!) So let me rephrase: If I'm in a junkyard looking at a bunch of crushed Hondas, whats the easiest way to tell if one of them is the lean burn model? Is the O2 sensor easily locatable and readable? Where is the ECM located in the car if I do find such a car? Is the 'VX' part of the outer badging on the car? Are they more plentiful in particular geographic areas (ie: California or other problematic air quality centers)? Should I just look under the hood of all the Hondas to see if they have a 5-wire O2? Thanks, - -Mike - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of steve ravet Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 4:52 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: Honda ident. request Honda part number 395986 from 1993 Honda Civic VX * This is a UEGO exhaust sensor: ------------------------------ From: Matt Beaubien Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:38:17 -0700 (MST) Subject: Example DFI maps. Hi all, I'm helping a fried dyno his Ford 302 c/w Vortec R-trim, intercooler, SVO heads etc. He bought a DFI map from some guy with a "similar" combination that has turned out to be way off. For instance, he had 10% fuel enrichment from 150F on up... In addition, it was so rich at an idle/startup, the IAC couldn't supply enough air and ran like crap. Taking 20% fuel away from it everywhere helped a bunch, but still needs some fine tuning. At an 1100 RPM idle, the PW is ~1.9ms but seems to work ok for the big cam (~250@xxx. I'm interested in general trends of constant map vs RPM, and map vs constant RPM. For a given MAP value, the PW should follow the torque curve, correct? How much should the PW go up for an increase in MAP? If anyone has any sample DFI maps they've created, I'd be very interested in taking a look at them. If the engine is blown (as in artificially aspirated), so much the better ;-). Thanks. Matt Beaubien mbeaubie@xxx.ca 3 x 510 1 x 300ZXT ------------------------------ From: Jason Weir Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:46:12 -0500 Subject: Re: home dyno kit?? It works as advertised, not too sure of its accuracy but I do see changes in the curves when changing calibrations. The thing was repeatable, what I mean is the same stretch of road at the same temp through the same rpm range got the same resulting hp and tq curve. Jason Ross Corrigan wrote: > > just passing along this interesting 'kit' I just caught off another list > > "Found this pretty cool looking program that acts as a home dyno and > produces HP and torque curves for 40 bucks and an inductive pickup off > your timing light it seems alot cheaper than a G-tech. Everybodys got a > PC and a recorder of some kind don't they? > > The website is listed below: > > http://www.charm.net/~mchaney/homedyno/dynokit.htm" > > Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada > > '80 327ZX IZCC#255, Edmonton Z-car Club #44, British Columbia ZCR > Life's a journey, not a destination.. Enjoy the pitstops and maximize the > straights > > mailto:zxv@xxx.ca *New ICQ # 11549358 > http://home.iSTAR.ca/~zxv/index.shtml > http://207.212.212.139/~corrigan/gearheads/pics/wheels/sirbg.jpg ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:00:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Honda ident. request I don't like these answers, but it is all I got. > >If I'm in a junkyard looking at a bunch of crushed Hondas, >whats the easiest way to tell if one of them is the lean >burn model? Under hood emission sticker Is the O2 sensor easily locatable and readable? Exhaust manifold right by radiator >Where is the ECM located in the car if I do find such a car? By passangers feet. >Is the 'VX' part of the outer badging on the car? Are they >more plentiful in particular geographic areas (ie: California >or other problematic air quality centers)? Should I just >look under the hood of all the Hondas to see if they have a >5-wire O2? Not all 5 wires are what ya want. Bruce > >Thanks, >-Mike ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:17:45 -0500 Subject: Re: home dyno kit?? They claim the software doesn't estimate power, it measures it. But further down the page they tell you it's ok to estimate the variables used in the horsepower calculations. Ahh, well. Kinda like using a crush sleeve, eh? Shannen > Ross Corrigan wrote: > > just passing along this interesting 'kit' I just caught off another list > > "Found this pretty cool looking program that acts as a home dyno and > produces HP and torque curves for 40 bucks and an inductive pickup off > your timing light it seems alot cheaper than a G-tech. Everybodys got a > PC and a recorder of some kind don't they? > > The website is listed below: > > http://www.charm.net/~mchaney/homedyno/dynokit.htm" > > Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada > > '80 327ZX IZCC#255, Edmonton Z-car Club #44, British Columbia ZCR > Life's a journey, not a destination.. Enjoy the pitstops and maximize the > straights > > mailto:zxv@xxx.ca *New ICQ # 11549358 > http://home.iSTAR.ca/~zxv/index.shtml > http://207.212.212.139/~corrigan/gearheads/pics/wheels/sirbg.jpg ------------------------------ From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:29:18 -0500 Subject: Re: 2:1 Internal & Spur Gear Dan Llewellyn2 wrote: > > This is not exactly EFI related - but my local sources have > been unable to help me. > > I am trying to build an experimental transmission. It uses > an internal gear (teeth on the inside) and a spur gear (teeth > on the outside) that rotates inside the first gear. My only > requirement is that the internal gear needs to have exactly > twice the teeth of the spur gear (and mesh, of course). > > I went some automatic transmission shops, but all the sets > of internal and planetary gears won't work because the planets > are too small. I was hoping internal and planets from different > sets might work, but haven't found a match. I figured that > buying some used automatic transmission gears would be > the cheapest way to get some quality gears. > > Any ideas? > > TIA > > Dan L You will have to have at least one of the gears custom made. I have TRIED to find automotive gearing for this exact setup - but looking for just OFF the 2.0:1 ratio. There are a few sun gears (GM 700) that match a few ring gears (ford c3 if I remember correctly) with the right lead on the helix, but the ratio is too steep. ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:43:59 -0700 Subject: Re: Subject: 2:1 Internal & Spur Gear >> From: Dan Llewellyn2 >> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:19:35 -0500 >> >> This is not exactly EFI related - but my local sources have >> been unable to help me. >> >> I am trying to build an experimental transmission. It uses >> an internal gear (teeth on the inside) and a spur gear (teeth >> on the outside) that rotates inside the first gear. My only >> requirement is that the internal gear needs to have exactly >> twice the teeth of the spur gear (and mesh, of course). >> >> I went some automatic transmission shops, but all the sets >> of internal and planetary gears won't work because the planets >> are too small. I was hoping internal and planets from different >> sets might work, but haven't found a match. I figured that >> buying some used automatic transmission gears would be >> the cheapest way to get some quality gears. >> >> Any ideas? > >Post your question to rec.crafts.metalworking. There are a number of >sources for such gears. Also take a look at the suppliers list on the >metalworking faq. You can reach it through www.loganact.com, just follow >the links. > >Ken >:-) Try Boston Gear. Greg ------------------------------ From: GARY CHAMBERLAIN Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:51:50 -0500 Subject: (no subject) unsubscibe ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:53:32 -0500 Subject: Re: home dyno kit?? Depends on what eh, means Bruce Doc's thinking about going to law school....... >They claim the software doesn't estimate power, it measures it. But >further down the page they tell you it's ok to estimate the variables >used in the horsepower calculations. Ahh, well. Kinda like using a >crush sleeve, eh? >Shannen ------------------------------ From: "David Sagers" Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:53:20 -0700 Subject: Cubic Dollars In answer to the request for a source and something to read for yourself, concerning the meaning of the US Constitution. Find yourself a copy of the Citizens' Handbook. It's a small (3.5" X 7") 45 page booklet that has the Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, the Constitution and a couple of other important documents. My copy was printed by Freedom Partner's in Washington DC, 202 833-2234. Also, most conservative book & tape stores will carry these booklets, and many organization give them away for the asking. Even if you have to pay a couple of bucks, it's worth it. ------------------------------ From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:58:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Subject: 2:1 Internal & Spur Gear Greg Hermann wrote: > > >> From: Dan Llewellyn2 > >> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:19:35 -0500 > >> > >> This is not exactly EFI related - but my local sources have > >> been unable to help me. > >> > >> I am trying to build an experimental transmission. It uses > >> an internal gear (teeth on the inside) and a spur gear (teeth > >> on the outside) that rotates inside the first gear. My only > >> requirement is that the internal gear needs to have exactly > >> twice the teeth of the spur gear (and mesh, of course). > >> > >> I went some automatic transmission shops, but all the sets > >> of internal and planetary gears won't work because the planets > >> are too small. I was hoping internal and planets from different > >> sets might work, but haven't found a match. I figured that > >> buying some used automatic transmission gears would be > >> the cheapest way to get some quality gears. > >> > >> Any ideas? > > > >Post your question to rec.crafts.metalworking. There are a number of > >sources for such gears. Also take a look at the suppliers list on the > >metalworking faq. You can reach it through www.loganact.com, just follow > >the links. > > > >Ken > >:-) > Try Boston Gear. > > Greg They don't have 'em. I looked. ------------------------------ From: Tom Sharpe Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:03:49 -0600 Subject: Re: Cubic Dollars espace wrote: > Well I for one am really impressed that this group has so many that know something of > nullification, and so many that are interested. Far from a normal group of bozos here!:-) > > As for efi content, anybody here got any evidence of what effect washing down the cylinder > walls with fuel has on compression??? I've a rig of questionable background(85300zx turbo) > that is varying from 30#-85# and there's 18 hours labor in r&r'ing the heads. I'd really > hate to invest this much in the thing(gaskets are probably 300$) just to find that fuel > or condensate had caused such. It has only 100k miles on it. I had the same problem with my 500 mile motor. Mine was excessively rich between 2 and 4K rpm at WOT then went lean. It washed the rings right out on the floor. Regards Tom ------------------------------ From: Fredrik Skog Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:08:04 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: Injector query On Wed, 27 Jan 1999 ECMnut@xxx.com wrote: No it has nothing indicating from what manufacturer it's from. > Doesn't appear to be a Bosch number.. Any logo or designon it? > Mike V > > > hey are black with a blue stripe painted all the way around it. They have > > a bosch type o-ring connection and have dual spray holes. > > They have the following numbers printed on one side: D5162FA > > And the following on the other side: 913512 > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Student at the Department of Computing Science Umeå University Fredrik Skog E-mail: c95fsg@xxx.se Taffelstråket 51 WWW: http://www.acc.umu.se/~skog/ 903 53 Umeå Phone: +46-(0)90-136365 Living and dying laughing and crying Once you have seen it you will never be the same Life in the fast lane is just how it seems Hard and it is heavy dirty and mean /MetallicA ------------------------------ From: Mike Pitts Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:14:39 -0500 Subject: RE: home dyno kit?? Seems like if you had a fast (8192 baud) home brew scan tool, you could measure RPM and MPH and make the same calculations, probably a bit more precisely since you would have MPH as an input rather than a calculation. Anyone know the math for this off-hand? Might as well add it to my cutom scan software (for 16198625 PCM's only, sorry). Cool idea though. Very creative with the inductive coil into the microphone jack. - -Mike ------------------------------ From: Jake Sternberg Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:16:48 -0600 (CST) Subject: 92 cavalier ECM info!? I need to know what ECM was used in a 1992 cavalier with the 2.2L four banger (8 valve). And also hopefully what calibration is used, and if you have any BINs that work with that setup, please send them. Or maybe you have a wire harness from that application. thanks!!!!! - -jake chickens@xxx.edu ------------------------------ From: Tom Sharpe Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:18:33 -0600 Subject: Re: 2:1 Internal & Spur Gear Dan Llewellyn2 wrote: > This is not exactly EFI related - but my local sources have > been unable to help me. > > I am trying to build an experimental transmission. It uses > an internal gear (teeth on the inside) and a spur gear (teeth > on the outside) that rotates inside the first gear. My only > requirement is that the internal gear needs to have exactly > twice the teeth of the spur gear (and mesh, of course). > > I went some automatic transmission shops, but all the sets > of internal and planetary gears won't work because the planets > are too small. I was hoping internal and planets from different > sets might work, but haven't found a match. I figured that > buying some used automatic transmission gears would be > the cheapest way to get some quality gears. You can get 1.82/1 planetaries from Powerglides. (or a Lenco) Tom ------------------------------ From: Jim Davies Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:26:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: 2:1 Internal & Spur Gear On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Dan Llewellyn2 wrote: > of internal and planetary gears won't work because the planets > are too small. I was hoping internal and planets from different > sets might work, but haven't found a match. I figured that > buying some used automatic transmission gears would be > the cheapest way to get some quality gears. > Cant think of any AT combinations that would do this. Try an industrial supply house for something like this. Browning is a brand name that comes to mind, but there are many others. ------------------------------ From: Jim Davies Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:31:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: RE: Switch Pitch On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Greg Hermann wrote: > > > IIRC--The DF used a five element converter--pump, turbine, and three > stators, do not recall any switch pitch being involved. Again, IIRC, the > tranny was 2 forward, 1 reverse, If you put it in drive, it started in high gear [1 to 1 ratio] and didnt shift. There was a low range, which was for "emergencies" and was engaged by shifting into low. No DF started in low then shifted to high like a 2 speed. with a LOT of similarities to the Chebby > Power Glide. At the beginning, (late '40's) I think the only difference > between a Dyna Flow and a Power Glide was the name. > There is about a 70 pound weight difference to start with...early PGs didnt shift, they changed them about 1953 to start in low then upshift to high gear, the same time that they changed to a 3 element convertor. ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:04:32 -0500 Subject: Re: 92 cavalier ECM info!? Looks to take a 16134847, no bins, or harnesses here, thou Bruce >I need to know what ECM was used in a >1992 cavalier with the 2.2L four banger (8 valve). >And also hopefully what calibration is used, and >if you have any BINs that work with that setup, >please send them. Or maybe you have a wire harness >from that application. >thanks!!!!! >-jake chickens@xxx.edu ------------------------------ From: "Stowe, Ted-SEA" Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:14:41 -0800 Subject: '165 donor vehicle needed hi. after some research I've figured out that I should play with a 1227165. the ludis page gives me some ideas as to the type of gm vehicle that had a 4 cyl tbi application. 1987 truck 2.5 L4 TBI "E" 1988 truck 2.5 L4 TBI "E" 1989 truck 2.5 L4 TBI "E" 1990 truck 2.5 L4 TBI "E" 1991 truck 2.5 L4 TBI "E" 1991-93 truck 2.5 L4 TBI "A" my app is for a 2.0 liter engine, and I need to run a tbi system, however the junkyards I've talked to on-line about buying the wiring harness, ECU, sensors, etc tell me that they can't find a gm truck that has one, (they can't dig up the truck model). was this for a S-10 ? I need to tell them the precise info, model, year , engine they aren't generally too creative with 'find me a '165' . can someone give me a model example ? this didn't use a crank sensor or anything too fancy like that did it ? thanks, Ted. ------------------------------ From: Roger Heflin Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:20:24 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Project 101 note On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Bruce Plecan wrote: > When doing the 101 stuff early one, things were simple, but in the > last few days, I think I better refine some items. > All the "stuff" you'll want to change/edit for doing a new calibration, > for a 165 or 730 will be between 0000 and 1000. While that is a > lot af area, it does narrow it down on the 128K, and 256K chips. > Now on the 730's with the 256K proms, you might find what > look like 2 timing tables, and two spark tables. That is correct. > one being idle, and one being road. The road will apprear as all > the tables there are in 101, for timing, and spark. The idle tables > generally look rather dumb in nature, ie not many changes, like a > whole corner of it might be 20d (an area 5x6).. Also the rpm steps > might be 200 rpm so everything is very compressed. On my computer for a 93 Z28 with a 256Kbit, or 32KByte prom all of the calibrations are 0x0000-0x1000 (mapped to 0x8000-0x9000). 0x9000-0xA000 is completely 0x00. The code starts at 0xA000 and runs pretty much to the end of the prom. I am still trying to work out where alot of the tables are, and exactly what everything controls. Roger ------------------------------ From: "James Montebello" Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:27:51 -0800 Subject: RE: home dyno kit?? > Seems like if you had a fast (8192 baud) home brew scan tool, > you could measure RPM and MPH and make the same calculations, > probably a bit more precisely since you would have MPH as an > input rather than a calculation. > > Anyone know the math for this off-hand? Might as well add it > to my cutom scan software (for 16198625 PCM's only, sorry). P = mass * (dV/dT) * V P is in Watts (/746 for HP) mass is in kg (*2.2 for lbs) dV is "delta V" (change in velocity, in meters/sec) dT is "delta T" (change in time, in seconds) V is in meters/sec (*3.3 for ft/sec) This doesn't compensate for drag or driveline losses, which the $40 software attempts to. This does give you a repeatable number with identical conditions, though. james montebello ------------------------------ From: Roger Heflin Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:35:09 -0600 (CST) Subject: RE: home dyno kit?? On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Mike Pitts wrote: > > Seems like if you had a fast (8192 baud) home brew scan tool, > you could measure RPM and MPH and make the same calculations, > probably a bit more precisely since you would have MPH as an > input rather than a calculation. > > Anyone know the math for this off-hand? Might as well add it > to my cutom scan software (for 16198625 PCM's only, sorry). > > Cool idea though. Very creative with the inductive coil into > the microphone jack. > I tried using the diacom data to get this sort of info. I have 7 samples per second 8192 baud. It does not work. The rpm and mph are too coarse. 1mph and 25 rpm don't give enough resolution to be able hp over a short range. To get reasonably smooth data I was having to average over 7-10 samples (almost a second, and a pretty wide rpm range). At 7 samples per second, the mph takes several samples to change, so you really cannot get accurate acceleration numbers, and this was the reason for having to average over a wide range. If you adjusted the computer and had some way to get more accurate mph numbers then it would probably be workable. But with 1 mph resolution it won't work very well. You might be able to setup an interpolation type equation for the mph and get alot better guess. I have a program (quick basic) to read a diacom dbf file and do this sort of processing. I will revisit doing this, since I already have some code that may work with interpolation. Roger ------------------------------ From: dave.williams@xxx.us (Dave Williams) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:16:00 -0500 Subject: Bosch/Buick crossbreed I've made some progress on my EFI transplant. I have a '79 Buick 3.8 V6 going into my '84 Mazda pickup. The engine was, of course, carbureted in its original form. I acquired an '82 Toyota Celica Supra EFI setup for free, though it took almost three days to extract the harness and bits from the Toyota. The Supra's EFI is a Bosch L-Jetronic made under license to Nippon Denso. The first order of the day was to acquire a Buick EFI intake manifold. I managed to snag one, complete with rail, injectors, and regulator, for $20. The runners are visibly smaller than the ports in the heads, and quite short, shorter than some tunnel ram intakes I've seen. The manifold is off an FWD car, so the throttle body will point back toward the firewall in my application. I will have to use an elbow to turn the air path to get to the air filter. Oddly enough, the Supra's throttle body was about 3mm larger in diameter than the hole in the Buick intake. I whittled a 3/8" aluminum adapter plate on the milling machine and drill press. Since the throttle body's linkage fouled the water neck (which is at the back of the intake, as I'm using it) I flipped the throttle body upside down. It will mean a little more work with the throttle linkage, but it fits a lot better that way. The Buick fuel rail has a Bosch part number, and the Buick fuel pressure regulator says "Bosch" right on it. Hmm, I thought all that stuff would be Rochester. The regulator fouled the throttle linkage, which I'd already flipped to avoid fouling the water outlet. Dang. I sawed the regulator off just past the last injector boss. The Supra's regulator setup looked different, but worked the same way as the Buick one, except instead of being attached to the rail itself, it is fed through a line that attaches to the rail with a banjo bolt. I sawed the threaded boss off the Supra's fuel rail. The OD of the Buick rail is close to 3/4"; a nice side cut on the Supra's banjo boss with a 3/4" end mill and it will be close enough. Looking at the Buick rail, I can't tell if it's welded, brazed, or soldered together. I'll be attaching the threaded boss to a ~4" long space between the last two injectors; the plan is to braze it in place. I'm kind of leery about soldering something like that. The Supra's injectors are odd - the ends are longer and smaller in diameter than 'normal' Bendix type injectors. They should work with the proper O-rings - I will be checking on those later. The Buick was SEFI. The L-Jetronic is batch, three at a time. Ford 5.0 SEFI fuel tails are no more than 3/8"; the Buick rails are enormous by comparison at 3/4". I have a Bosch "pulsator" around somewhere, I'll probably plumb that in. Bosch puts them on the feed side, between the rail and the pump. After finishing up the fuel rail, I get to make some metric to NPT bushings to mount the Bosch water temp senders, etc. Then I get to untape the wiring harness and carefully extract all the EFI bits from the rest. Hartman says in his EFI book that the L-Jet will recognize the spark signal from a GM HEI. Shouldn't be too long before I bench test the thing. ==dave.williams@xxx.us====================================== I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm ------------------------------ From: dave.williams@xxx.us (Dave Williams) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:04:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Switch Pitch - -> I heard once that the dynaflow lacked torque multiplication, and was - -> very high revving and noisy. If I can remember, I'll try to dig out - -> a manual for it when I get back to my reference library. A friend had a '57 Buick with a 364? V8 back when we were in high school. It had the Dynaflow. The car wasn't very fast off the line, not as fast as a '56 Chevy with a 283 and Powerglide, but once it got rolling, it felt pretty ordinary. After Ron put glasspacks on it, it was very strange. The engine would rev up when you pushed down on the pedal (the starter switch was built into the gas pedal, btw) and just sit at a pretty constant RPM while the car accelerated. It did it before, but it wasn't as obvious with the quiet mufflers. It was a lot like a CVT. ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:54:34 -0500 Subject: Re: 92 cavalier ECM info!? Jake Sternberg wrote: > > I need to know what ECM was used in a > 1992 cavalier with the 2.2L four banger (8 valve). > ECM # is 16134847 > And also hopefully what calibration is used, and Following part no's are latest cal.s for federal emissions and A/C. Auto trans: 16184411 BCXT/4424 Manual Trans: 16191791 BFKV/2077 Note that this ecm is reprogrammable by the dealer. >if you have any BINs that work with that setup, > please send them. Or maybe you have a wire harness > from that application. > > thanks!!!!! > -jake chickens@xxx.edu ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:03:51 -0500 Subject: Re: home dyno kit?? - -----Original Message----- From: Roger Heflin To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 8:50 PM Subject: RE: home dyno kit?? If you have ABS just pick a signal of a wheel speed sensor. Divide it with some divide by ten counters an a couple 555's to run a 4066 on and off with a stop watch. Cheers Bruce >> Seems like if you had a fast (8192 baud) home brew scan tool, >> you could measure RPM and MPH and make the same calculations, >> probably a bit more precisely since you would have MPH as an >> input rather than a calculation. >> Anyone know the math for this off-hand? Might as well add it >> to my cutom scan software (for 16198625 PCM's only, sorry). >> Cool idea though. Very creative with the inductive coil into >> the microphone jack. ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:21:00 -0700 Subject: Cubic Dollars Hi All-- Some more thoughts on ecm's and their code and copyrights: 1. A copyright is something that must be actively obtained by the original creator of copyrightable material. One of the active steps which must be taken to protect one's copyright interests is to mark each copy of the material with the symbol (c in a circle) and date, and the creator's name. (This may be done only on the copyright page of a bound book, to be sufficient.) For loose leaf stuff, like engineering plans or specifications, it is far wiser to mark each sheet if you want protection. As to PCB's, I believe that they need to be marked appropriately if the creator wants any protection. For software, I believe that each copy distributed must contain a notice, and each diskette must be marked. IF THESE STEPS ARE NOT CARRIED OUT, NO COPYRIGHT PROTECTION MAY BE CLAIMED!!!! 2. You can publish and distribute material (any of the above) with the markings, and be protected, so long as you take appropriate steps to perfect (complete) the copyright within a fixed length of time. This step involves submitting a record copy of the material to DC, which gets archived. 3. I have never looked--does GM (for instance) put the c in a circle symbol on their ecu PCB's??? (BRUCE???) (Together with the other required info.) I have seen this stuff on plenty of PCB's, but dunno as to ecu's. IF THE COPYRIGHT SYMBOL AND OTHER REQUIRED INFO IS NOT ON THE PCB, THE BOARD DESIGN IS PUBLIC DOMAIN. PERIOD!!! YOU WOULD BE FREE TO COPY IT AT WILL!!!! 4. I know of no copyright info that you get (not to mention any agreement) in re the software in the ecu that you get or execute when you buy the car (see earlier post on this), so the software in mfgr ecu's has about gotta be public domain stuff!! HERE IS WHERE IT GETS INTERESTING: Do any of the software oriented folks out there know what material you have to submit to complete a copyright on software???? Or does anybody even bother cuz of the development cycle being so short???? Is source code, etc. required as a part of the submission?? If I am wrong about the software in the mfgr ecu's being devoid of any copyright protection, then all the documentation, as required to complete the copyright, just as for any other kind of software should be public record wherever it is that such archives are kept. (Prolly available on the web!) If the mfgrs really have copyrighted their ecu software, the copyright archives might well be a treasure trove of info for hacking them, depending on how much documentation must be submitted to get the copyright!!!!!!! If, as I suspect very strongly, the mfgrs have not copyrighted their ecu software, we, and all the chip-makers too, are, in fact, free to do any damn thing we want to with it, including pass out exact copies of it, either for free or for profit!! Either way, no bloody wonder the mfgrs are tight with the details of their software!! Regards, Greg ------------------------------ From: Marc Piccioni Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:23:46 -0700 Subject: RE: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Not quite right...... The crush sleeve is used to set the front and rear pinion bearing pre-load, the front pinion bearing takes the thrust from the driveshaft. If the pinion nut comes loose then the pinion will move rearward and instantly chew the ring gear. /Marc - ---------- From: Gary Derian[SMTP:gderian@xxx.net] Sent: January 27, 1999 1:31 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths The way I know, the crush sleeve is only used to hold the inner bearing races against the pinion gear to keep the races from rotating relative to the pinion. It doesn't take any gear loads. You could remove the crush sleeve and loctite the inner races to the pinion. Gary Derian > >Betcha it was a crush sleeve. The too long driveshaft pounded the companion >flange on the pinion into the sleeve hard enough to smush the sleeve beyond >where it was supposed to be, and the rest was history. No doubt the too >long shaft was what got the rear mount bolts too (before you fixed them! > >The crush sleeves are cheap for the mfgrs to use in a production >situation--beyond that they are not worth a #@$% !!!! For any performance >application, or even just for a quality rebuild, a conversion to positive >pinion preload shims is HIGHLY recommended for ANY rear axle!!! > >Regards, Greg > > begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(BP"`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`& !```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&$`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S M,BYE;F``,P`0`` M`"(```!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S,BYE;F5]E9FE 969I,S,R+F5N9RYO M:&EO+7-T871E+F5D=2<``@$+, $````G````4TU44#I$25E?149)0$5&23,S M,BY%3D71H M`' ``0```"4```!213H@1$9)+"!"871C M:"!&:7)E+"!A;F0@;W1H97(@;7ET:',``````@%Q``$````6`````;Y*93N9 MLEC,G;88$=*^G$1%4U0`````'@`># $````%````4TU44 `````>`!\,`0`` M`!@xxx. ,`!Q R! `` M'@`($ $```!E````3D]4455)5$5224=(5%1(14-255-(4TQ%159%25-54T5$ M5$]315142$5&4D].5$%.1%)%05)024Y)3TY"14%224Y'4%)%+4Q/040L5$A% M1E)/3E1024Y)3TY"14%224Y'5$%+10`````"`0D0`0```*D$``"E! ``;P@` M`$Q:1G7E\GE%_P`*`0\"%0*H!>L"@P!0`O()`@!C: K !V'0`$`" ?$ F (/QT;Q] $< @,![!`U$" M,%X@`' @(!>@"L%P"X!IV0(@(&(AH0N 9R'0%Z#B+1"%S!O M$; @xxx.@)YD#\-YL`R $8!^1(9)W"Q$A0\<+@!/ `'!T;'D>X![ =P?@(+(B M@V5\-P&E 0]$:X(0R+@GP M9RYO:"(0;BTKT3F!"8!U/Y\[#G6<8FHR@4&_-KM294@0Z$1&22-00CEP$7 U M4'YI%Z C4"%2') >P 7 ;9IY(+!S+L\OTS,V,4T*A7(`T >183E@*[(GBN0 M_&XG()$E$2%!+#!5HR,2VG-9L5D(8"AQ=5)A%Z#_*I-0-PJ%'U4A4AQ9)9G\VB49C)O\/\Y<"T@ M')%R! K!!&!I$ 5 [0;A=& 2(% H(E "$' AEV\P7! P<'AI1&TA9)[O'KY4 M47 A+%%A5E!X(2"C_&UF"\'0!S@+# 7H&(`#T``0````4```!213H@`````+;F ` end ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #67 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".