DIY_EFI Digest Thursday, 28 January 1999 Volume 04 : Number 069 In this issue: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #66 Thermodynamics anybody??? RE: Switch pitch, or cubic Buicks Re: 2:1 Internal & Spur Gear Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths Re: home dyno kit?? RE: Looking for injectors Re: Cubic Dollars Re: Honda ident. request Looking for Honda ECM Information Re: Looking for injectors Re: lookup resolution Re: Thermodynamics anybody??? Re: Cubic Dollars Re: home dyno kit?? RE: Thermodynamics anybody??? Re: Cubic Dollars Re: home dyno kit?? Re: Honda ident. request Re: BLCC5074 error codes Re: home dyno kit?? RE: Switch Pitch Re: Honda ident. request Re: Bosch/Buick crossbreed Re: Cubic Dollars Re: home dyno kit?? Boneyard Harnesses (was Bosch/Buick crossbreed) RE: Bosch/Buick crossbreed See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: espace Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:22:47 -0800 Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #66 >From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) >Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:51:00 -0700 >Subject: Re: Cubic Dollars >Expelled, if you are lucky. > >A lady in Colorado was recently prosecuted because she failed to reveal >her intentions to judge the law as well as the case. Laura Kriho She made the mistake >of discussing this opening in jury deliberations. Another juror informed >the judge, and since the judge was interested in writing a book about the >Fully Informed Jury movement, the judge charged her with some sort of >misconduct, and I believe she was convicted. HI-- Yes, this did happen--I live in Steamboat Springs, CO, and it was in the news here at the time. However, you did not read the fine print! What they went after her for was for not informing the court of a possible conflict--not for exercising her rights as a juror. Me- Ah, I followed that one pretty close, and the issue as it was presented amongst us was that not that there was a conflict, or she had had past involvement with drugs, but her failure to volunteer that she believes that the war on some drugs is a farse, despite the fact that she was never asked. Some of us feel that if one can be tried for not answering questions that aren't asked as jurrors, we won't be jurrors, period. It seems that she was on the jury for a drug case, and she had pled nolo to a very minor drug charge about 20 years previously. The prosecutor tried to claim that she had deliberately concealed the conflict, and had pre-judged the case, but perjured herself by claiming that she had no conflict in judging the case. SHE WAS NOT PROSECUTED FOR KNOWING OR EXERCISING HER RIGHTS AS A JUROR (no matter how much the media and the pols, judges, & lawyers wanted everybody to believe that that was the case!) Whether she got convicted, did a plea bargain, or got acquitted, I do not recall. She got convicted of not volunteering information she wasn't asked, and it neted her a few weekends community service. The BS that the #@$% holes go through to avoid having you know your rights as a juror would make slick proud!! Which makes me realize--mebbe I should remind our two Senators from CO of just how trivial and obscure a perjury offense we in Colorado will prosecute someone for. Perhaps they should weigh the above referenced case during their deliberations on slick's fate!!! me- Where's a good Islamic fundamentalist when ya need one?? He could have gotten two for one the other day, Clinton and Paul. ------------------------------ From: espace Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:49:21 -0800 Subject: Thermodynamics anybody??? My books are long gone, along with my brain,(pass the cone shaped hat) and I'm curious if anybody here has done much work with intercooler design. I've got a 3 liter engine that I'm considering building an intercooler system fer, and if anybody's got any numbers about intercooler requirements I'd like to take a look. The way I see it, I could use a heater core or a/c evaporator for the hot side, and some sort of radiator on the cool side. I'm looking fer heat load caused by say 30psi intake pressure at 7k rpm, and corrolating that to optimal collector and diffuser sizes. I've got a Audi radiator with a elec fan on it that would work for a diffuser, but seems like overkill and is heavy, empty. They alos use an auxiliary radiator that's about 50% bigger in area than a heater core(and a lot thinner) that would be ideal if it's enough to do it. So allright guys, here's your chance to show off... prove me dumb... ------------------------------ From: "Guenther,Max" Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:32:52 -0500 Subject: RE: Switch pitch, or cubic Buicks As far as the Dynaflow not being to fast, check the quarter mile times on a 63 and 64 Riviera. Rather close. Only real difference was the 63 was dynaflow and the 64 was Super Turbine 400(dont ya just love the name?), >not switch pitch though I think that was first in 65. ------------------------------ From: Dan Llewellyn2 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:13:37 -0500 Subject: Re: 2:1 Internal & Spur Gear > I just need the single gear to gear ratio - it won't be a planetarysetup. I have already tried Browning, Boston, and a few others, but their highest capacity stock gears are 5/16" face, straight cut, and only good for a few horsepower. I got a few quotes on custom gears, but each quote was over $1,000 per gear (!). I thought that if I could find some stock auto/truck gears that had the 2:1 ratio and meshed, I could go to a junk yard or transmission shop and pick some up inexpensively. I have a GM350 internal gear with 66 teeth that only cost $10 - just don't have the matching spur gear. Of course I am open to any other set that would work too. Dan L > Are you trying to use the spur gear as a planetary set up or just a > single gear to gear ratio? > > If you are trying for a planetary set up it won't work because there would > be no room for a sun gear. That is why they use 2 planetary gear sets > to get the ratios under 3 to 1. > > James ------------------------------ From: "Gary Derian" Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:09:56 -0500 Subject: Re: DFI, Batch Fire, and other myths I accept that a weak crush sleeve limits the pinion flange torque which may allow it to loosen, a good point that is, too, but gear loads are not transmitted through the crush sleeve. Gary Derian >>Not quite right...... >> >>The crush sleeve is used to set the front and rear pinion bearing pre-load, >>the front pinion bearing takes the thrust from the driveshaft. If the >>pinion nut comes loose then the pinion will move rearward and instantly >>chew the ring gear. >> >>/Marc > >The front bearing also takes the gear thrust when the gears are loaded on >the coast side of their teeth. (like with regular cut gears, driving >forward in the front end of a 4x4) > >One main point is, that with a crush sleeve, tightness of the nut is >limited, so it is way more likely to come loose--- > >Greg >> >>The way I know, the crush sleeve is only used to hold the inner bearing >>races against the pinion gear to keep the races from rotating relative to >>the pinion. It doesn't take any gear loads. You could remove the crush >>sleeve and loctite the inner races to the pinion. >> >>Gary Derian >> >>> >>>Betcha it was a crush sleeve. The too long driveshaft pounded the >>companion >>>flange on the pinion into the sleeve hard enough to smush the sleeve >>beyond >>>where it was supposed to be, and the rest was history. No doubt the too >>>long shaft was what got the rear mount bolts too (before you fixed them! >>> >>>The crush sleeves are cheap for the mfgrs to use in a production >>>situation--beyond that they are not worth a #@$% !!!! For any performance >>>application, or even just for a quality rebuild, a conversion to positive >>>pinion preload shims is HIGHLY recommended for ANY rear axle!!! >>> >>>Regards, Greg ------------------------------ From: Dan Llewellyn2 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:24:09 -0500 Subject: Re: home dyno kit?? This dyno kit assumes (among other things) you are on level ground. At least were I live, level stretches of road where you can get up to speed are rare. If they incorporated the data from a G-field measuring device, like an Analog Digital ADXL05, you could calculate horsepower even if the road was not level. Combined with an ignition signal (ignoring timing changes), you could get a pretty good idea of performance. I have the G-Tech and although it mostly works, it also assumes level ground, no suspension loading, etc. I have found it almost impossible to get repeatable runs - but I don't have access to a drag strip either. Dan L Roger Heflin wrote: > On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Mike Pitts wrote: > > > > > Seems like if you had a fast (8192 baud) home brew scan tool, > > you could measure RPM and MPH and make the same calculations, > > probably a bit more precisely since you would have MPH as an > > input rather than a calculation. > > > > Anyone know the math for this off-hand? Might as well add it > > to my cutom scan software (for 16198625 PCM's only, sorry). > > > > Cool idea though. Very creative with the inductive coil into > > the microphone jack. > > > > I tried using the diacom data to get this sort of info. I have 7 > samples per second 8192 baud. It does not work. The rpm and mph are > too coarse. 1mph and 25 rpm don't give enough resolution to be able > hp over a short range. To get reasonably smooth data I was having to > average over 7-10 samples (almost a second, and a pretty wide rpm > range). At 7 samples per second, the mph takes several samples to > change, so you really cannot get accurate acceleration numbers, and > this was the reason for having to average over a wide range. > > If you adjusted the computer and had some way to get more accurate mph > numbers then it would probably be workable. But with 1 mph resolution > it won't work very well. > > You might be able to setup an interpolation type equation for the mph > and get alot better guess. I have a program (quick basic) to read a > diacom dbf file and do this sort of processing. I will revisit doing > this, since I already have some code that may work with interpolation. > > Roger ------------------------------ From: "Van Setten, Tim (AZ75)" Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:59:11 -0700 Subject: RE: Looking for injectors > Any Idea on good sources for injectors? > Thanxs > Maybe the injector guru...Any have his number? > What kind? Type, brand, flow rate, O-ring, Hose-barb????? ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:05:14 -0700 Subject: Re: Cubic Dollars >(snip) >>Do any of the software oriented folks out there know what material you have >>to submit to complete a copyright on software???? Or does anybody even >>bother cuz of the development cycle being so short???? >> > > When writing windows programs, in the 'Help' menu box, the copyright and >'c' in a circle is present with date and author. I have not really dug >into this in depth but I believe that this procedure protects the >software. Hackers can remove this information and I have read of several >software programmers who, to protect their work, have imbedded certain >keystrokes, in the program, that when entered while the program was >running, would display information about the copyright and author. This >technique won one independent programmer a bundle in court when he proved >that he wrote the program, stolen and marketed by another company, by >typing keystrokes which initiated a screen display showing his copyright >information. > >Clarence NEAT!!--But I still think that after some period of time, you need to file an official copy to COMPLETE the copyright process--Anybody know about this part?? Greg ------------------------------ From: "Grant Swaim" Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:18:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Honda ident. request From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Honda ident. request Date sent: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:00:41 -0500 Send reply to: diy_efi@xxx.edu > I don't like these answers, but it is all I got. > > > > >If I'm in a junkyard looking at a bunch of crushed Hondas, > >whats the easiest way to tell if one of them is the lean > >burn model? > > Under hood emission sticker > > Is the O2 sensor easily locatable and readable? > > Exhaust manifold right by radiator > > >Where is the ECM located in the car if I do find such a car? > > By passangers feet. > > >Is the 'VX' part of the outer badging on the car? Are they > >more plentiful in particular geographic areas (ie: California > >or other problematic air quality centers)? Should I just > >look under the hood of all the Hondas to see if they have a > >5-wire O2? > > Not all 5 wires are what ya want. > Bruce > > > >Thanks, > >-Mike The LAF Sensor currently is used only on the lean burn Civic which were: 92-95 VX 96-98 HX All LAF sensors are 7 wire. I write Honda training material and you can check out a training module on the LAF sensor at http://www.tech2tech.net/training/laf.htm Happy Motoring, Grant Swaim - Webmaster www.tech2tech.net ------------------------------ From: "Grant Swaim" Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:18:46 -0500 Subject: Looking for Honda ECM Information Hi EFI Gurus, I am new to the list and hope to be able to contribute some. I have been in the Honda service industry for almost 20 years. I currently develop specialty Honda tools and write Honda training material. I write a fair amount on the Honda PGMFI system. My training modules are written at a service tech level. I would like to include a little more advanced information to keep the service pros interested. I am particularly looking for engine control module (ECM) data. This is the kind of stuff that Honda keeps under tight control. I know some of you guys that have modified Hondas have more knowledge of this than I do. The specific information I am interested in is about the ECM processing such as, how often does the processor read the inputs. What was the difference in speed and power of the processor before and after OBD-II. That type of information. Any information would be greatly appreciated ! By the way, I see a lot of discussion about the Honda LAF sensor in the archives. By the way Honda calls is a Lean Air Fuel sensor, instead of a Linear Air Flow sensor. I have written a training article on the sensor and you can see it at: http://www.tech2tech.net/training/laf.htm Happy Motoring, Grant Swaim - Webmaster www.tech2tech.net ------------------------------ From: "Grant Swaim" Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:18:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Looking for injectors From: Fisystems@xxx.com Date sent: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 03:23:14 EST To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Looking for injectors Send reply to: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Any Idea on good sources for injectors? > Thanxs > Maybe the injector guru...Any have his number? > He has a site: www.lindertech.com Happy Motoring, Grant Swaim - Webmaster www.tech2tech.net ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:15:11 -0700 Subject: Re: lookup resolution >Firstly thanks for your input... one more quicky... > >>If you can, I would say go to twice as many rpm points (32) and use a >>logarithmic scale to lay them out (equal percentage increase from each rpm >>level to the next) for best streetability. > >so, are we talking closer together at low or high rpm ? > >ie steps such as (very exagerated) > >0, 500, 1000, 2000, 4000, 8000 rpm THIS WAY--same multiplier, or percentage, increase on each step up!! (Your example doubled the rpm each step, Or 100%) Greg ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:33:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Thermodynamics anybody??? - -----Original Message----- From: espace To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Thursday, January 28, 1999 5:21 AM Subject: Thermodynamics anybody??? Spearco in I think Studio City, CA used to have a bunch of info., about intercoolers in their catalog. Tony Dequick on the Buick GN Ttype list manufacturers some, might try to trace him down. Bruce > >My books are long gone, along with my brain,(pass the cone shaped hat) and I'm curious >if anybody here has done much work with intercooler design. I've got a 3 liter engine >that I'm considering building an intercooler system fer, and if anybody's got any >numbers about intercooler requirements I'd like to take a look. The way I see it, >I could use a heater core or a/c evaporator for the hot side, and some sort of radiator >on the cool side. I'm looking fer heat load caused by say 30psi intake pressure at 7k >rpm, and corrolating that to optimal collector and diffuser sizes. > I've got a Audi radiator with a elec fan on it that would work for a diffuser, but seems >like overkill and is heavy, empty. They alos use an auxiliary radiator that's about 50% >bigger in area than a heater core(and a lot thinner) that would be ideal if it's enough >to do it. > > So allright guys, here's your chance to show off... prove me dumb... > > ------------------------------ From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:37:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Cubic Dollars Greg Hermann wrote: > > >(snip) > > NEAT!!--But I still think that after some period of time, you need to file > an official copy to COMPLETE the copyright process--Anybody know about this > part?? > > Greg >From what I remember, here in Canada, copyright exists as soon as you say it does. The cheapest way to prove and protect copyright is to mail the ORIGINAL of the document, with copyright notice included, to yourself by registered mail. DO NOT open it, and put it in your safe deposit box. The content must NOT have been revealed publicly at any time previous to this posting without the copyright notice, or the copyright is unenforceable. Trade marks and trade names are property and must be registered, as must patents - but copyright is a "right"that belongs to you untill you release it to the public as public domain. ------------------------------ From: Roger Heflin Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:44:09 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: home dyno kit?? On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Mike Pitts wrote: > >>This is because the 8192 sample time is maxed at about 8 frames/sec. > > Not if you know how to send the command to directly read ram > locations a single byte at a time, rather than asking for the entire > diagnostic stream. 8-) > > If I can get 64 bytes out 8 times per second, I should be able to > get between 128 and 256 samples per second interrogating just > two bytes (RPM and MPH). So sample rate is not a problem. > > The earlier post about poor resolution made a good point (25 RPM > and 1.0 MPH), you can however query the raw time between cam > sensor pulses and the raw VSS count and do your own math to get > as precise as you wish. Or, at least I can do it with my PCM. > I redid the program with interpolation. THe results were better, but there are still unexplained peaks (not TCC lock, or shifts). I believe the problem is that the acceleartions we are talking about are 1 mph/(1 or 2 or 3) frames, and some times it will be 1mph/2 and sometimes it will be 1mph/3 (same sort of thing with 1 and 2) but 1/2 and 2/3 are the dV/dt components and vary too much because of the limited dt. If I am running an average accelearation rate of say 1.7 frames per mph, I get some where dV/Dt is 1 and some where it is 1/2 and this makes a big difference in hp numbers. The program I have does attempt to take care of wind resistance via a number for hp drag at 60. It uses that equation of drag = drag_at_60 * ( velocity^2 / 60^2 ) which should give a pretty good estimate. Later this week I will try interpolating by fitting a equation to the data in an attempt to get more accurate time data. Also with the reading of the mph and rpm at a higher rate, and interpolating the mph data I think we could actually get good numbers. 2-3 times the number of data points per second would probably give good enough data (even with the 1mph resolution) to get good info. The other choice would be to read out the ABS computer as I understand it has very accurate mph data. Roger ------------------------------ From: "Van Setten, Tim (AZ75)" Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:44:48 -0700 Subject: RE: Thermodynamics anybody??? We've been playing around with intercoolers and I stole mine out of a Saab, but my engine is smaller than yours. We got some good equaitions from Spearco. Check them out, but they want way too much money. I perfer to build my own...Tim. http://www.spearcointercoolers.com/ > My books are long gone, along with my brain,(pass the cone shaped hat) and > I'm curious > if anybody here has done much work with intercooler design. I've got a 3 > liter engine > that I'm considering building an intercooler system fer, and if anybody's > got any > numbers about intercooler requirements I'd like to take a look. The way I > see it, > I could use a heater core or a/c evaporator for the hot side, and some > sort of radiator > on the cool side. I'm looking fer heat load caused by say 30psi intake > pressure at 7k > rpm, and corrolating that to optimal collector and diffuser sizes. > I've got a Audi radiator with a elec fan on it that would work for a > diffuser, but seems > like overkill and is heavy, empty. They alos use an auxiliary radiator > that's about 50% > bigger in area than a heater core(and a lot thinner) that would be ideal > if it's enough > to do it. > > So allright guys, here's your chance to show off... prove me dumb... > > ------------------------------ From: Roger Heflin Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:52:16 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Cubic Dollars On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Greg Hermann wrote: > Hi All-- > > Some more thoughts on ecm's and their code and copyrights: > > 1. A copyright is something that must be actively obtained by the original > creator of copyrightable material. One of the active steps which must be > taken to protect one's copyright interests is to mark each copy of the > material with the symbol (c in a circle) and date, and the creator's name. > (This may be done only on the copyright page of a bound book, to be > sufficient.) For loose leaf stuff, like engineering plans or > specifications, it is far wiser to mark each sheet if you want protection. > As to PCB's, I believe that they need to be marked appropriately if the > creator wants any protection. For software, I believe that each copy > distributed must contain a notice, and each diskette must be marked. > > IF THESE STEPS ARE NOT CARRIED OUT, NO COPYRIGHT PROTECTION MAY BE CLAIMED!!!! You *do not* have to file anything. The originator has copyright protection without filing. Under the new rules that I believe the major governments agreed on you do not even have to have the copyright symbol on the document, you only have to be able to prove you were the originator of the info (sometimes difficult). > > 2. You can publish and distribute material (any of the above) with the > markings, and be protected, so long as you take appropriate steps to > perfect (complete) the copyright within a fixed length of time. This step > involves submitting a record copy of the material to DC, which gets > archived. No recorded copy is required. > > 3. I have never looked--does GM (for instance) put the c in a circle symbol > on their ecu PCB's??? (BRUCE???) > (Together with the other required info.) I have seen this stuff on plenty > of PCB's, but dunno as to ecu's. IF THE COPYRIGHT SYMBOL AND OTHER REQUIRED > INFO IS NOT ON THE PCB, THE BOARD DESIGN IS PUBLIC DOMAIN. PERIOD!!! YOU > WOULD BE FREE TO COPY IT AT WILL!!!! > Nothing is public domain automatically, the originator has to declear it public domain. > 4. I know of no copyright info that you get (not to mention any agreement) > in re the software in the ecu that you get or execute when you buy the car > (see earlier post on this), so the software in mfgr ecu's has about gotta > be public domain stuff!! > > HERE IS WHERE IT GETS INTERESTING: > > Do any of the software oriented folks out there know what material you have > to submit to complete a copyright on software???? Or does anybody even > bother cuz of the development cycle being so short???? > > Is source code, etc. required as a part of the submission?? > As I said there is no submission process. They use a submission process for books I believe, but just because it is not submitted does not mean they cannot get you. > If I am wrong about the software in the mfgr ecu's being devoid of any > copyright protection, then all the documentation, as required to complete > the copyright, just as for any other kind of software should be public > record wherever it is that such archives are kept. (Prolly available on the > web!) > > If the mfgrs really have copyrighted their ecu software, the copyright > archives might well be a treasure trove of info for hacking them, depending > on how much documentation must be submitted to get the copyright!!!!!!! > > If, as I suspect very strongly, the mfgrs have not copyrighted their ecu > software, we, and all the chip-makers too, are, in fact, free to do any > damn thing we want to with it, including pass out exact copies of it, > either for free or for profit!! > > Either way, no bloody wonder the mfgrs are tight with the details of their > software!! > > Regards, Greg > > > ------------------------------ From: Jamie Dennis Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:59:25 -0500 Subject: Re: home dyno kit?? There is a free alternative to Home Dyno, that is supposed to be better (at least than the early versions of Home Dyno). It's called RevTest. The catch? It's not available for the PC right now (though they do ask for offers of help developing it). It is available for the Amiga, and it looks like there is a version for UNIX partially completed. The web site is: http://www.students.tut.fi/~k124775/revpro.html The page also has good information on the theory behind the program.\\ - -Jamie Dennis ------------------------------ From: ECMnut@xxx.com Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:03:14 EST Subject: Re: Honda ident. request Thanks Grant, If I find one of these cars, is there a possiblity that it will have a different engine than the lean burn, or is the engine implied by the specific model designation? Thanks, Mike V > The LAF Sensor currently is used only on the lean burn Civic which > were: > > 92-95 VX > 96-98 HX ------------------------------ From: trinity@xxx.net (Mike) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:29:48 -0500 Subject: Re: BLCC5074 error codes > > >Well seeing as though I uploaded them I should try to help you out ;-) >I have a GM book for one of these cars around, I'll go hunting and see what >I can find. > >BTW - Where were the Malf codes located?. > >Regards > >Ross Myers > There are several copies of malf codes kept during run time but the really important ones (the ones that get set or cleared as each test is run) go from $32 to $3A inclusive. An example: $32 80-code 13 40-code 14 20-code 15 10-code 16 08-code 17 04-code 18 02-code 19 01-code 21 ...etc... The list of malfunction codes (i.e. where the program gets the digits to be flashed out on the CEL) can be found at $5F21. The enable masks can be found at $8925 to $892D inclusive. - -- Mike ------------------------------ From: Chris Conlon Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:45:35 -0500 Subject: Re: home dyno kit?? At 08:24 AM 1/28/99 -0500, Dan Llewellyn2 wrote: >level ground. At least were I live, level stretches of road where >you can get up to speed are rare. If they incorporated the data >from a G-field measuring device, like an Analog Digital ADXL05, >you could calculate horsepower even if the road was not level. One thing I was gonna mention is the Analog Devices ADXL202, a second generation, 2 axis +/- 5g accelerometer. It's even easier to use than the first one, and has either a PWM output (you set the frequency) and/or a linear analog output, per channel. This is so easy you can hook the PWM input up to an audio amplifier and listen to the sound change with acceleration. (Freq is constant but the timbre changes. Or a simple 555 circuit will get you variable frequency.) In the Analog Devices tradition of annoying package options it's a surface mount, but it's still better than the damn (TO-10?) round can thing the last one was mounted in. For just playing around, Digikey sells an adapter board (Surfboards, by Capital Advanced Technologies, p/n 9210CA-ND) which you can solder the chip onto and has a row of pins on the side. SIP-style, about $7. The acclerometers are surprisingly cheap too, pretty sure they're $30 or less in ones, samples available. I've thought about trying to make a better G-Tech sort of thing with these, but definite accurate HP measurement with suspension loading plus nonflat ground is still beyond what you can do with just one, I think. If my math was right anwyay. You can get close, though, with a couple simplifying assumptions. Now if you had *2* modules, mounted fore and aft... nah. An exercise for the reader. Chris C. ------------------------------ From: "Gwyn Reedy" Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:42:20 -0500 Subject: RE: Switch Pitch There were comments about the similarity between the DynaFlow and Powerglide. I'm wondering if there weren't more similarities between DF and TurboGlide? The latter was a no-shift transmission. Thinking back about all these earlier transmissions: Was Detroit slow to see the need for better performance or was the market all attuned to smoothness (or so thought Detroit)? Smoothness oriented: Chrysler fluid drive Dynaflow PowerGlide (starting off in 1:1) Ford-o-matic starting off in 2nd, kickdown to 1st Hydramatic converting to an internal fluid coupling in 1956 to smooth out the shifts. Not smooth, but not good performance: 3 speed manual transmissions When 4 speeds came, very high first gear ratios. Nice close ratios, but a tall gear to start with. (Was that so the trans cold hold the torque?) At least there were manual shift overdrives... (I put one from a Chevy behind the B-W automatic in my hot-rod Rambler station wagon once - worked fine.) (Don't give me any s**t about that project or I'll have to tell all about it...) These days the engines are much improved, but lots of the flexibility, performance, and economy we get is due to transmission improvements, IMHO. Gwyn Reedy Brandon, Florida mailto:mgr@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: "Grant Swaim" Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:51:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Honda ident. request From: ECMnut@xxx.com Date sent: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:03:14 EST To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: Honda ident. request Send reply to: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Thanks Grant, > If I find one of these cars, is there a possiblity that > it will have a different engine than the lean burn, or > is the engine implied by the specific model designation? > Thanks, > Mike V > > > The LAF Sensor currently is used only on the lean burn Civic which > > were: > > > > 92-95 VX > > 96-98 HX > You should be safe by going by the model designation. Also will have 7 wires. Happy Motoring, Grant Swaim - Webmaster www.tech2tech.net ------------------------------ From: dave.williams@xxx.us (Dave Williams) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:52:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Bosch/Buick crossbreed - -> That sounds like a cool project. But why not just use the EFI - -> system off a FWD SFI Buick? They are plentiful and cheap - -> in the boneyards. At local prices, "cheap" would be on the order of $500, plus I'd have to fabricate my own harness. Once I figure in my time on adapting the Bosch I'll be pushing that, but at least I won't be giving my money to the swine at the junkyards. Around here, for example, *no* yard will sell a wiring harness. Not even just before they feed the car to the crusher. Why? Who the hell knows, but none of them will budge. ------------------------------ From: Clarence Wood Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:32:28 -0600 Subject: Re: Cubic Dollars Hi, quoting from "How to sell your Software" by Bob Schenot. "A copyright protects the 'expression of an idea, not the idea itself'. The actual copyright law is 17 United States Code, sections 101 through 810." "You do not need to do anything in the United States (since 1989) to have a copyright--it is automatic. On the other hand, it is definitely to your advantage to include a 'notice' in your work...." "If an individual claims a copyright, that claim is good for his or her lifetime plus fifty years...." He goes on to talk about registering the copyright and says: "You can take legal action for infringement only after the copyright has been registered". He then states: "I question whether it makes sense to register (as opposed to claim) a copyright for software. My reasoning is that, because you cannot copyright an idea, having protection for the source code is not very useful." Therein lies the confusion, in my mind anyway. 'Claiming' as opposed to copyright. Since software can solve the same problem many different ways, the 'idea' comes into play when the problem is solved in a particular way. Someone else can solve the same problem a different way without infringing on your software. The only thing that copyright protects is the pirating of the entire program; your 'expression of an idea'. It is also important to mail a copy of your software to somebody out of state. You need proof that it was 'published'. Clarence At 07:05 AM 1/28/99 -0700, you wrote: >>(snip) >>>Do any of the software oriented folks out there know what material you have >>>to submit to complete a copyright on software???? Or does anybody even >>>bother cuz of the development cycle being so short???? >>> >> >> When writing windows programs, in the 'Help' menu box, the copyright and >>'c' in a circle is present with date and author. I have not really dug >>into this in depth but I believe that this procedure protects the >>software. Hackers can remove this information and I have read of several >>software programmers who, to protect their work, have imbedded certain >>keystrokes, in the program, that when entered while the program was >>running, would display information about the copyright and author. This >>technique won one independent programmer a bundle in court when he proved >>that he wrote the program, stolen and marketed by another company, by >>typing keystrokes which initiated a screen display showing his copyright >>information. >> >>Clarence > >NEAT!!--But I still think that after some period of time, you need to file >an official copy to COMPLETE the copyright process--Anybody know about this >part?? > >Greg > > > ------------------------------ From: Orin Eman Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:07:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: home dyno kit?? > At 08:24 AM 1/28/99 -0500, Dan Llewellyn2 wrote: > >level ground. At least were I live, level stretches of road where > >you can get up to speed are rare. If they incorporated the data > >from a G-field measuring device, like an Analog Digital ADXL05, > >you could calculate horsepower even if the road was not level. Yes, but you still need the speed input since the accelerometer cannot tell the difference between acceleration and gravity... As far as the horsepower calculation is concerned, you would use the acceleration from the accelerometer and the speed from another sensor... The calculation (being mass * velocity * acceleration) doesn't care whether the acceleration is due to gravity (going uphill) or increase in speed. > One thing I was gonna mention is the Analog Devices ADXL202, a > second generation, 2 axis +/- 5g accelerometer. It's even easier I looked at it when it first came out and the specs didn't look very good to me. It's bad enough getting .01g resolution out of an ADXL05 with any reasonable bandwith and the 202 looked worse to me. Orin. ------------------------------ From: Teller.John@xxx.com Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:38:03 -0500 Subject: Boneyard Harnesses (was Bosch/Buick crossbreed) Try going to a U-Pull-It sort of junk yard. The ones any where near here (D.C. suburbs) are all pretty well organized and insured and thus do not allow cretins such as I onto their lots. As you get further from metropolitan areas, and are willing to do the wrenching yourself, you can pull just about anything you want. The problem with harnesses is that the goons (employed there or otherwise) that usually pull stuff out of the wrecks tend to cut connectors off instead of unplugging them. You have to find a real popular car that the junk yard has lots of, or get there when the wreck is fresh to get that sort of stuff intact... Furthermore, harnesses are usually tied in tightly to the chassis and snake around too many things in order to be quickly (read cheaply) removed from the carcass. I doubt you would pay what it would cost to have a yard goon to pull one... Please respond to diy_efi@xxx.edu To: diy_efi@xxx.edu cc: (bcc: John Teller/ORBVA) Subject: Re: Bosch/Buick crossbreed Around here, for example, *no* yard will sell a wiring harness. Not even just before they feed the car to the crusher. Why? Who the hell knows, but none of them will budge. ------------------------------ From: Mike Pitts Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:06:04 -0500 Subject: RE: Bosch/Buick crossbreed That's a real bummer. Otherwise it would be sooo easy. Literally plug-n-play. And easily tuneable with a '7148 ECM since the info on this ECM has somewhat entered into the public domain (there's a reversed assembly listing on the TR homepage). At my favorite yard, they would probably sell the *entire* FI system for $100 or less. (ECM, harness, fuel rail, injectors, sensors, coil pack, etc). I wonder why they are so obnoxious in your area? If anyone ever comes down to West Palm Beach, FL, I'll show where the best yard is at. :) They're awesome. - -Mike - -----Original Message----- At local prices, "cheap" would be on the order of $500, plus I'd have to fabricate my own harness. Once I figure in my time on adapting the Bosch I'll be pushing that, but at least I won't be giving my money to the swine at the junkyards. Around here, for example, *no* yard will sell a wiring harness. Not even just before they feed the car to the crusher. Why? Who the hell knows, but none of them will budge. ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #69 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".