DIY_EFI Digest Sunday, 31 January 1999 Volume 04 : Number 077 In this issue: Re: More UEGO stuff RE:EFI Questions RE:EFI Questions Code Tweaking (Was Cubic Dollars) Re: Different Strokes Maps r Us ECU6 8051 assembly routines Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #60 Re: fuel pumps Re: Rising rate fuel pressure regulator Re: RE:EFI Questions Adjusting parameters that determine BLM cell - GM ECM Re: More UEGO stuff See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Gorkowski Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 07:23:14 -0600 Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff I am glad the wide o2 project (with all the greatly appreciated help from all the members and nonmembers) has interest and will be given to members when it is done with code. I would like to see PC boards made for those who just want to build one. That was the reason for the question to see if there is enough interest to justify boards built. I am using a pic 54 and later a 84 flash chip and was looking at sending the a/f data out a serial port and let the analog guys tap off the 0 to 5v out for analog control . Thanks for your help Steve ------------------------------ From: dzorde@xxx.com (dzorde) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 05:47:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: RE:EFI Questions See what you mean. In an OEM situations this actually seem like a very valid explanation. As my ecu is purely an aftermarket unit designed with racing in mind it would then seem logical to not include this as the cars would not have cats on them and hence this could very well be why I'm just reading an initial lean on coast down until the engine requirements catch up to what the ecu is feeding it. Meaning that my system is actually functioning correctly. Dan dzorde@xxx.au - -----Original Message----- From: ECMnut@xxx.com] Sent: Friday, January 29, 1999 9:56 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: EFI Questions Hi Dan, I believe most of the GM stuff shuts off the injectors for "coast down" conditions, but they give a *blip* of max pulse width, once in a while, just to supply some fuel to keep the convertor lit. I was recording dragstrip runs with a diacom, and could not figure out what was causing the injector pulse to spike from zero to 32ms(!) while coasting down at the end of the runs.. At 4000 rpm, that is something like 4 Revolutions of full time injector spray.. I have a speed density 6cyl, where all of the injectors fire together.... I have a graph of a run at the bottom of the page, at http://www.enzoco.com/mike/syclone/monitor.htm It is a tall page, so scroll downward if you are interested.. HTH Mike V ------------------------------ From: dzorde@xxx.com (dzorde) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 05:48:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: RE:EFI Questions Hi Bruce, Its times like this I wish I had a digital camera. Anyway, cooling temp is 84C (180F thermostat from memory). I don't think I'm on too much advance (8deg @1000rpm), although I have never checked what the total advance is at max rpm. But I do know anymore and it pings. The greyness is close to the light grey used in the Windows menu bars with a brown tint appearing. I've tried retarding the timing, which does result in the cars seeming slower to work its ways through the revs. But this keeps me getting back to the compression. The fact that the car won't run properly if I reduce the fuel delivery (even though still reading rich), could that be due to the extremely high compression ? Dan dzorde@xxx.au - -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Plecan [SMTP:nacelp@xxx.net] Sent: Saturday, January 30, 1999 3:33 AM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: RE:EFI Questions >Tried the plug cuts. Looks nice and clean (no detonation) but I already >know that its OK on avgas. Plugs are a medium grey, with probably a slight >browning of the ceramic tip (NGK BP6S plugs). And yet the car is still >running very rich (I think around 0.8-0.9V is rich). So how does a plug >look like its OK and yet all other indications are that its rich (got me >puzzled) ? Depending on the grayness, you might be running too much timing too rich. The gray is a sign of a sooty flame, meaning excess fuel, running extra timing makes the motor seem like it's pulling better. What for cooling temp ya running?. Remember, I'm an ocean away and can't see you plugs, and just trying to work off of what your reporting. Bruce ------------------------------ From: dave.williams@xxx.us (Dave Williams) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:06:00 -0500 Subject: Code Tweaking (Was Cubic Dollars) - -> "tweaked" by individuals. It seems he had a client that was being - -> sued for selling performance chips. This nut case initiating the - -> suit, claimed he "invented" performance chips in 1994 or something. - -> He told me this 'nut' had even gone to try and sue GM for tweaking on - -> their code. Jeez, sounds like Electromotive! ------------------------------ From: "Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020" Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:32:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Different Strokes > > Hi David, > It has been my experience that it does take less time for the engine to > accelerate with a shorter stroke,,,but like you said the larger cu in will > give more streetable torque and that would probably be the trade off I would > take if I already had the parts as you do.....The biggest downfall of the 4" > arm is the fact that you have very little(if any...was this 350 mains or 400?) > journal overlap and if you are planning to make alot of hp(1000+) and/or > rpm,,expect this crank to crack probably after 30 1/4 mile blasts.....just > some experience....hth's > -Carl Summers build the 434 the torque of the large engine will do wonders to hide the turbo lag limit RPM to about 5500-6000 max on the street and size to turbo to fit the the application you are probably looking for ~500 HP so find a trubo that can produce enough airflow to make the 500-600 HP range and install it to spool up fast Clive ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:10:40 -0500 Subject: Maps r Us Here's a couple more, If one was to look at a 92 v-8 1227730 ecm'd MAP application, it might look like this. Again educational purposes, for understanding engine management principles only. RPM 20 30 40 50 60 70 75 80 85 90 95 100 400 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 6 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 8 20 20 24 24 24 24 23 22 21 20 20 20 1000 20 23 26 26 26 24 23 22 21 20 20 20 12 20 25 28 28 28 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 14 20 25 32 32 32 29 27 24 23 20 20 20 16 20 34 36 33 32 29 27 24 23 21 20 20 18 30 34 37 34 34 32 30 28 26 24 20 20 20 30 34 38 36 36 33 32 30 27 24 21 20 22 30 34 38 36 36 35 31 28 25 23 22 20 24 30 34 38 36 36 32 29 28 26 22 21 19 28 30 34 38 35 35 30 27 25 24 21 19 18 32 30 34 38 34 34 27 24 23 21 19 18 19 36 30 34 38 38 34 28 26 24 22 20 20 19 40 30 35 40 40 34 28 28 26 22 22 20 20 44 40 40 40 40 40 36 32 30 28 26 26 26 48 40 40 40 40 40 36 32 30 28 26 26 26 52 40 40 40 40 40 36 32 30 28 26 26 26 Spark Adders 400 0 1200 0 2000 1 3200 2 4800 4 Cheers Doc ------------------------------ From: Al Lipper Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:32:56 -0800 Subject: ECU6 8051 assembly routines - --=====================_98831695==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Wayne, I've attached the latest software. Basically, we need the routines in EFI02.ASM adapted from the Intel 80C51GB to the Phillips 80C552. The key routines are the ones that deal with the Intel's PCA - these need to work with the Phillip's Capture/compare. These are the RPM, Injector turn-off and async injector pulse routines. If you have some time to work on it, that would be great. Perhaps we can find someone else to help with other parts of it also. Just as a note, the hardware for the next version ECU7, is almost complete. Thanks. Al BTW, if you need the assember, it's in the ZIP of all the EFI system files (includes all the software) at: http://members.aol.com/ALIPPER/ At 02:52 PM 1/19/99 +1000, you wrote: >Al > >I wrote 8051 assembler for phillips and intel variants 5 or 6 years ago. >I think you mentioned basic, C but would be nice. >Are you looking for some one with development tools. >What needs doing ? >I dunno how much time you need. > - --=====================_98831695==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="EFI02.asm" $NOPAGING ; 6/7/97 - added WDT routines ; efi00.asm 950204RHAL ; ASM routines for Electronic Fuel Injection System. ; Includes ISRs for RPM and injector pulsing. ; Using the 87C51GB. $MOD51GB ;************************************************************************* ; Memory useage, Variable declaration, and Vector tables-- r0b0 equ 00h ; Register R0, Bank0 r1b0 equ 01h ; Register R1, Bank0 ; Variables for use in/with ASM routines. ; Note: Internal bits 00-0F use internal memory locations 20 and 21. ; Internal Bits 00-07 for ASM only flags. ; Internal Bits 08-0F for BASIC/ASM flags. SP_SYNC BIT 008h ; Set when Injector Pulse is to be ; Synchronized with Spark Pulse. ; Written by Main loop. EX_ASYNC ; must be called by main loop when ; this value is changed. ; Direct addresses 18H-21H of Internal RAM for BASIC/ASM variables. ; These addresses are not used by the compiler ; External addresses FFF0-FFFF are used to transfer data to BASIC OLD_CCAP0 DATA 018h ; Previous PCA0 capture value, 2 ; bytes (lo-hi). Used to compute ; Spark Pulse period. Used only ; in ISR (Static Local). PW1 DATA 01Ah ; Injector Pulse Width (count for ; PCA1), 2 bytes (lo-hi). Data is ; passed from Main to ISR here. ; Main loop should clear EC0 when ; when writing these bytes. RPMPW DATA 01Ch ; Spark Pulse period, 2 bytes. Data ; is passed from ISR to Main here. ; Main loop should clear EC0 when ; when reading these bytes. APP DATA 01Eh ; Async Injector Pulse Period. Data ; is passed form Main to ISR here. ; Main loop should clear EC0 when ; when writing these bytes. TICK15 XDATA 0FFF6H ; Two byte counter, incremented ; every 15ms by WDT_ISR: for use by ; BASIC program in timed operations. ; A/D Converter addresses ADC_0 DATA 084h ; A/D Converter channel 0 ADC_1 DATA 094h ; A/D Converter channel 1 ADC_2 DATA 0A4h ; A/D Converter channel 2 ADC_3 DATA 0B4h ; A/D Converter channel 3 ADC_4 DATA 0C4h ; A/D Converter channel 4 ADC_5 DATA 0D4h ; A/D Converter channel 5 ADC_6 DATA 0E4h ; A/D Converter channel 6 ADC_7 DATA 0F4h ; A/D Converter channel 7 ACON DATA 097h ; A/D Converter control register ;A/D Converter uses FFF8-FFFF as mirror locations for the above registers ADC_MIRR XDATA 0FFF8h ; A/D Mirror for transfer to BASIC ; Enter values into Interrupt Vector "Mirror." ORG 0FE00H ; RESET VECTOR JMP WDT_INIT ; INIT TIMER 0 FOR WDT RESET ORG 0FE0Bh ; Timer 0 TF0 LJMP WDT_ISR ; WATCHDOG TIMER (WDT) ISR ORG 0FE33h ; PCA INTERRUPT VECTOR LOCATION LJMP ISR_PCA ; Jump to PCA Interrupt Handler. ;************************************************************************* ; BASIC call vectors-- ORG 0FE50H ; Put at very top of code memory ; (must be decreased if code is expanded) AJMP INIT ; Init routine. AJMP READ_ADC ; Read A/D Converter AJMP EX_ASYNC ; Handle change of SP_SYNC. AJMP IAC_HIGHER ; IAC motor init for higher idle AJMP IAC_LOWER ; IAC motor init for lower idle AJMP IAC_STEP ; Step IAC motor in selected direction AJMP IAC_OFF ; Turn off power to IAC motor (doesn't move) ;************************************************************************* ; Startup routines-- INIT: ; Init stuff for ASM routines. setb p4.0 ;debug MOV IP,#01000010b ; Set PPC and PT0 (PCA0 2nd, Timer0 1st) MOV IE,#11000010b ; Enable global (EA), PCA (EC) and TIMER0 (ET0) ints. MOV CMOD,#00 ; Setup PCA Counter Mode. (f.osc/12) MOV CCON,#01000000b ; Enable PCA counter (CR) MOV CCAPM0,#00100001b ; Set PCA0 Mode: Capture positive ; edge and enable PCA interrupt. SETB SP_SYNC ; Set flag to sync mode initially ACALL EX_ASYNC ; Set sync mode (based on flag) MOV DPTR, #TICK15 ; Clear 2 BASIC counter register MOV A, #00 ; bytes. MOVX @xxx. INC DPTR ; then clear the second byte. MOVX @DPTR, A ; MOV ACON,#00010000b ; Enable A/D Converter ; Setup I/O ports. Inputs must be set to 1 before they will work. ; See "8051 IO Ports.xls" for specific pin functions. SETB P1.0 ; Cranking SETB P1.1 ; Key on SETB P1.3 ; SP in SETB P3.2 ; External Int 0 SETB P3.4 ; A/C on SETB P5.2 ; DIP SW 2 SETB P5.3 ; DIP SW 1 clr p4.0 ;debug RET ;************************************************************************* ; Main Loop subroutines-- ; ASM routine called by BASIC to start or end Async Injection Mode based on ; Async Mode flag, must be called when ever SP_SYNC is changed. EX_ASYNC: ; setb p4.1 ;debug MOV CCAPM3,#0 ; Disable PCA3. JB SP_SYNC,EA_OFF ; Check Sync Mode Flag. ; Startup Async Mode. CLR CCF3 ; Clear any pending IRQ for PCA3. MOV CCAP3L,#0 ; Setup Compare Register with MOV A,CH ; 0.25-0.51 ms from now to start ADD A,#2 ; 1st Async pulse. MOV CCAP3H,A MOV CCAPM3,#01001001b ; Set PCA3 for Compare Mode and ; Enable Interrupt. EA_OFF: ; clr p4.1 ;debug RET ; Done. ; Read AD Converter and store in mirror locations (ADCMIRR..ADCMIRR+7) since ; the internal locations which contain the registers are not accesible from ; from BASIC. READ_ADC: PUSH ACC PUSH DPL PUSH DPH PUSH PSW MOV DPTR,#ADC_MIRR ; Put first mirror address in DPTR MOV A,ADC_0 ; Read A/D Channel 0 MOVX @DPTR,A ; Save channel 0 to mirror location MOV A,ADC_1 ; Read A/D Channel 1 INC DPTR ; Increment mirror address MOVX @DPTR,A ; Save channel 1 to mirror location MOV A,ADC_2 ; Read A/D Channel 2 INC DPTR ; Increment mirror address MOVX @DPTR,A ; Save channel 2 to mirror location MOV A,ADC_3 ; Read A/D Channel 3 INC DPTR ; Increment mirror address MOVX @DPTR,A ; Save channel 3 to mirror location MOV A,ADC_4 ; Read A/D Channel 4 INC DPTR ; Increment mirror address MOVX @DPTR,A ; Save channel 4 to mirror location MOV A,ADC_5 ; Read A/D Channel 5 INC DPTR ; Increment mirror address MOVX @DPTR,A ; Save channel 5 to mirror location MOV A,ADC_6 ; Read A/D Channel 6 INC DPTR ; Increment mirror address MOVX @DPTR,A ; Save channel 6 to mirror location MOV A,ADC_7 ; Read A/D Channel 7 INC DPTR ; Increment mirror address MOVX @DPTR,A ; Save channel 7 to mirror location POP PSW POP DPH POP DPL POP ACC RET ;************************************************************************* ; Interrupt Service Routines-- ; Interrupt Service Routine for all PCA interrupts. Determines which ; PCA generated the int. and jumps to the corresponding routine. ISR_PCA: JBC CCF0,ISR_PCA0 ; Check & clear flag for PCA0. JBC CCF1,ISR_PCA1 ; etc. JBC CCF3,ISR_PCA3 RETI ; Others are not used. ; Interrupt Service Routine for End of Injection Pulse -- PCA 1 (Inj 1). ; PCA 2 (Inj 2) is not currently used as an independent timer, but just as a ; single bit output based on the timer used by inj. 1. ISR_PCA1: MOV CCAPM1,#0 ; Disable PCA Module 1. Turn off inj. #1 CLR P1.5 ; Turn off Inj. #2 RETI ; Return from Interrupt. ; Interrupt Service Routine for Starting Async Injection Pulses -- PCA3. ISR_PCA3: ;setb p4.3 ; debug PUSH PSW ; Save registers. PUSH ACC ACALL SETPW ; Handle Starting Output Pulse. MOV A,APP ; Set up this PCA for the next Async ADD A,CCAP3L ; Pulse. MOV CCAP3L,A ; Add Async period to last time MOV A,APP+1 ; for next time. Also, note ADDC A,CCAP3H ; that PCA Compare is disabled MOV CCAP3H,A ; by hardware between write of ; low and high CAP bytes. ;clr p4.3 ; debug AJMP IP0_RTI ; Done, restore registers and return ; from interrupt. ; Interrupt Service Routine for Spark Timing (RPM) -- PCA 0. Also starts ; Injection Pulse when in Synchronous Mode. ISR_PCA0: PUSH PSW ; Save registers. PUSH ACC setb p4.2 JNB SP_SYNC,IP0_RPM ; If in Async mode, skip output ; pulse. ACALL SETPW ; Handle Starting Output Pulse. IP0_RPM: CLR C ; Compute RPM Pulse Width. MOV A,CCAP0L ; RPMPW = CCAP0 - OLD_CCAP0 SUBB A,OLD_CCAP0 ; (16-bit subtract) MOV RPMPW,A MOV A,CCAP0H ; Do MSB. SUBB A,OLD_CCAP0+1 MOV RPMPW+1,A MOV OLD_CCAP0,CCAP0L ; Save CCAP0 for next time. MOV OLD_CCAP0+1,CCAP0H IP0_RTI: POP ACC ; Restore registers. POP PSW clr p4.2 ; debug RETI ; Return from Interrupt. ; Handle Starting an Output Pulse. Common to ISR_PCA0 & ISR_PCA3. SETPW: ; Test for zero output pulse width. setb p4.4 ; debug MOV A,PW1 ; Get LSB of PW. JNZ SPW_SETPW ; If not zero, setup PW. MOV A,PW1+1 ; Get MSB of PW. JZ SPW_DONE ; If zero, skip PW. MOV A,PW1 ; Get LSB of PW. SPW_SETPW: SETB CEX1 ; Start output pulse. Turn on inj. #1 SETB P1.5 ; Turn on Inj. #2 JNB SP_SYNC,SPW_ASYN ; Handle PW for Sync Mode. SPW_SYNC: ADD A,CCAP0L ; Setup PCA1 for output pulse MOV CCAP1L,A ; width. CCAP1 = CCAP0 + PW1 MOV A,PW1+1 ; (16-bit add) ADDC A,CCAP0H SPW_FIN: MOV CCAP1H,A ; Finish both paths. MOV CCAPM1,#01001101b ; Set PCA1 for High Speed Output ; and enable interrupt. clr p4.4 ;debug SPW_DONE: RET ; Return from Subroutine. SPW_ASYN: ADD A,CCAP3L ; Handle PW for Async Mode. MOV CCAP1L,A ; Setup PCA1 for output pulse MOV A,PW1+1 ; width. CCAP1 = CCAP3 + PW1 ADDC A,CCAP3H ; (16-bit add) AJMP SPW_FIN ; Go finish. IAC_HIGHER: ; IAC motor init for higher idle CLR P5.4 ; Set step output low CLR P5.5 ; Set direction to higher idle SETB P5.6 ; Enable IAC (Turn on) RET IAC_LOWER: ; IAC motor init for lower idle CLR P5.4 ; Set step output low SETB P5.5 ; Set direction to higher idle SETB P5.6 ; Enable IAC (Turn on) RET IAC_STEP: ; Step IAC motor in selected direction SETB P5.4 ; Set step output high NOP ; Delay for 10us NOP ; for step to be initiated (MC3479 - PWCKx) NOP NOP NOP NOP NOP NOP NOP NOP CLR P5.4 ; Set step output low RET IAC_OFF: ; Turn off power to IAC motor (doesn't move) CLR P5.6 ; Disable IAC (Turn off) CLR P5.4 ; Set step output to low (it should already be low) RET ; WDT routines - see Intel appnotes (AB-44) ; Initialize timer 0 for watchdog ISR - see WDT_ISR: ; Note: Each timer 'tick' is osc/12 secs. WDT_INIT: setb p4.5 ;debug SETB EA ; Enable All interrupts SETB ET0 ; Enable Timer0 Int SETB PT0 ; Set Timer0 int to 1st priority (highest) PT0 MOV IPH,#00000010b ; Set PT0H MOV TMOD, #01 ; Set Timer0 mode to 16-bit, no prescale MOV TL0, #67H ; Set the timer to interrupt (hit FFFF) in 15000 ticks MOV TH0, #0C5H ; FFFF-3A98 = C567 (65535-15000 = 50535) SETB TR0 ; Start the timer clr p4.5 ;debug RET ; This ISR has 3 functions: ; 1) To reset the WDT before 16.3667 ms passes (at 12 MHz) ; 2) To check for rapid TPS movement ; 3) To increment a byte for use as a counter for EGO and related routines ; WDT reset - WDT needs to be reset every 16.3667ms or it will reset the CPU ; Timer 0 is used to call this ISR every 15ms to do this reset. WDT_ISR: setb p4.6 ;debug PUSH DPH PUSH DPL PUSH ACC PUSH PSW CLR TR0 ; stop timer 0 MOV WDTRST, #1EH ; clear WDT MOV WDTRST, #0E1H MOV TL0, #67H ; Set the timer to interrupt (hit FFFF) in 15000 ticks MOV TH0, #0C5H ; FFFF-3A98 = C567 (65535-15000 = 50535) SETB TR0 ; restart timer 0 ; Pulse bit for external WDT/reset IC. Inverts every time through. ; This should NOT be kept in the ISR, it needs to be in the main BASIC loop CPL P1.6 ; Invert Reset IC's WDT bit ; Increment BASIC counter bytes MOV DPTR, #TICK15 ; Get counter address MOVX A, @DPTR ; Put the contents of TICK15 in A (LSB) INC A ; Increment it MOVX @DPTR, A ; Put it back in TICK15 JNZ WDT_EXIT ; If it hasn't rolled over to 00, then exit INC DPTR ; Do the MSB MOVX A, @DPTR MOV A, #00 ; MOVX A, @DPTR ; Put the contents of TICK15+1 in A (MSB) INC A ; Increment it MOVX @DPTR, A ; Put it back in TICK15+1 WDT_EXIT: POP PSW POP ACC POP DPL POP DPH clr p4.6 ;debug RETI END - --=====================_98831695==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" - --=====================_98831695==_-- ------------------------------ From: "Auburn Performance Equipment" Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:15:04 -0500 Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #60 Date sent: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:57:28 -0500 From: DIY_EFI-Digest-Owner@xxx.edu To: DIY_EFI-Digest@xxx.edu Subject: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #60 Send reply to: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > From: "ron.boley" > Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:39:06 -0500 > Subject: Re: SpeedBrain > > Matt: > > I looked at your site and read the contents on the SpeedBrain. I'd like > to understand what the dynamic range of the SpeedBrain is versus the Ford > EEC-IV. Is it a complete equivalent except for added programmability or > is it designed to cure other hi performance ills. The range is very similar, which areas specifically would you like to compare? It is designed to out perform the stock computer and software. It is designed to be user friendly, as well as eliminate some headache areas that are obstacales to higher performance. > Is it more adaptable than EEC-IV? How would it handle a aftermarket cam > with sufficent overlap to reduce vacuum at idle. It idles.cruises, and performs better than the stock eec. Thanks, Matt ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ AUBURN PERFORMANCE EQUIPMENT Home of the world's fastest 4.6 Cobra! 1998 Winner 160mph class Big Bend Classic roadrace, Ft Stockton, TX 1998 Winner 160mph class Gamblers Run roadrace, Elko, NV 1998 Winner 165mph class Silverstate Classic roadrace, Ely, NV We just don't sell and install parts, we make them perform. ORDER LINE 1-508-752-7683 24 hr FAX LINE (508)752-5269 TECH LINE (508)797-9728 WEBSITE & ON-LINE CATALOG: http://www.tiac.net/users/goape/index.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ From: Ken Kelly Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:34:15 -0500 Subject: Re: fuel pumps Marc, I think you need a return line from the small tank back to the main gas tank. This can be small and should pick up high in the small tank to return the vapor. Jags that run suggests this method in there "chevrolet TPI & TBI Engine Swapping" book. Ken Marc Piccioni wrote: > > I will also be converting to EFI shortly and wonder if the following will > work: > > Use a low pressure electric pump mounted by the tank feeding forward to an > insulated fuel resovoir ( say 1 liter in size) mounted in the engine > compartment equipped with a float to keep the level constant. Then feed the > high pressure pump locally from the bottom of the resovoir and route the > regulator bypass outlet back to the top of the resovoir. The only problem > that I can see is possibly vapour being trapped at the top of the tank. > > ---------- > From: Fran and Bud[SMTP:quest100@xxx.net] > Sent: January 30, 1999 2:17 AM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: fuel pumps > > Best performance will be gained by mounting the pump low and as close to > the > gas tank as possible, making the low pressure (inlet) flow circuit short. > Most pumps don't do well with suction, but are happy pushing all the gas > they can get. > ---------- > >From: "Mike Pilkenton" > >To: "DIY-EFI" > >Subject: fuel pumps > >Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999, 4:34 PM > > > > >Well I'm deep into my engine conversion project and need to install an > >electric fuel pump for the EFI engine (3.1L V6). Question is do I have to > >put the fuel pump back in the tank or can I install the pump up by the > >engine. I know I need the high pressure type made for FI engines and not > >the carb (low pressure). Mounting anaftermarket in-line pump up by the > >engine sure would be more convenient. Any advice would be appreciated. > > > >Mike Pilkenton > > > > begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT > M>)\^(C8!`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` > M`@````(``@`!!) &`$P$```"````% ````,``# %````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ > M`0```&$`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S > M,BYE;F M;VAI;RUS=&%T92YE9'4`````'@`", $````%````4TU44 `````>``,P`0`` > M`"(```!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S,BYE;F`!H` > M`0```!0```!215!/4E0N25!-+DY/5$4N3D12`$ `,@``@@:*BTR^`0,`! P` > M`````P`%#/____\#`!4,````$ ,`_@\&````'@`!$ $```!$````3F\@=')A > M;G-P;W)T('!R;W9I9&5R('=A M('1H:7,@``$P`0```"0````G9&EY7V5F:4!E9FDS,S(N > M96YG+F]H:6\M M149),S,R+D5.1RY/2$E/+5-4051%+D5$50```P``.0`````"`1(Z`0```&$` > M````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S,BYE;F M;VAI;RUS=&%T92YE9'4`4TU44 !D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S,BYE;F M=&%T92YE9'4`````'@xxx.@$````D````)V1I>5]E9FE 969I,S,R+F5N9RYO > M:&EO+7-T871E+F5D=2<``@xxx.@$````G````4TU44#I$25E?149)0$5&23,S > M,BY%3D M!0X````#```P!@````L`#PX!`````@'_#P$```!A`````````($K'Z2^HQ 9 > MG6X`W0$/5 (`````9&EY7V5F:4!E9FDS,S(N96YG+F]H:6\M M`%--5% `9&EY7V5F:4!E9FDS,S(N96YG+F]H:6\M M`C !````!0```%--5% `````'@`#, $````B````9&EY7V5F:4!E9FDS,S(N > M96YG+F]H:6\M M`0````,`_@\&````'@`!, $````D````)V1I>5]E9FE 969I,S,R+F5N9RYO > M:&EO+7-T871E+F5D=2<``@$+, $````G````4TU44#I$25E?149)0$5&23,S > M,BY%3D M"CJXTA&^G$1%4U0```L`0#H!`````@'V#P$````$````````!OSW`0B !P`8 > M````25!-+DUI8W)O M;"!P=6UP`!(`#P`K``8`1P$!!@`'`!@```!) > M4$TN36EC``P`, `8 > M``8`3P$!"8 !`"$````T,$0U1#0P03-!0CA$,C$Q0D4Y0S0T-#4U,S4T,# P > M, #Q!@$#D 8`X 8``!,````+`",```````,`)@``````"P`I```````#`#8` > M`````$ `.0``@xxx.B!F=65L('!U;7!S```" > M`7$``0```!8````!ODR*D$4*U-5!N#H1TKZ<1$535 `````>`!X,`0````4` > M``!33510`````!X`'PP!````& ```&UP:6-C:6]N:4!A='1C86YA9&$N;F5T > M``,`!A F`@M0`P`'$/8$```>``@0`0```&4```!)5TE,3$%,4T]"14-/3E9% > M4E1)3D=43T5&25-(3U)43%E!3D173TY$15))1E1(149/3$Q/5TE.1U=)3$Q7 > M3U)+.E5314%,3U=04D534U52145,14-44DE#4%5-4$U/54Y4141"``````(! > M"1 !````3P4``$L%``!D"0``3%I&=5,D4VG_``H!#P(5`J@%ZP*#`% "\@D" > M`&-H"L!S970R-P8`!L,"@S(#Q0(`<')"<1'B MR#41!;L34P_=?0J ",\)V3L9CW@R-34"@ J!#;$+8&[P9S$P,Q10"PH440OR > MHF,`0"!)( /P; ,@@0= M;')Y'M!N9!Z `B $@2"[!I @`&@?0 (0'K!O`_#''^$>DR% M$; >T" B42 34 >0IG,( M(>(!D&YKFR(0">!D']("$')W"Q&_( (#D0N )2 +8":29@I00P,@)/%O=F]I > M!< HS2!P82#@'E!L:1/0(9'C`Z `D'IE*29'*U$AXKT)\&<+@!]")B *P'0' > M@-,","5@<74%(' FH0/PMR'@)'$<8&\I0" ":PG@_R8P(>(E@!^0`R ?81/ > M`'#P="X@xxx. M(<0IYR$"`V!U$] TU6?_*2(%L2;0"K $$38!)8 %0-YB`- G<" 1)P-O)C T > MO=LQ`S2@;B#1$U!O`F 3X/\AT2\Q'G S4"MA"> AH 0@-'!O!!!I`F @X'9A > M[SQ0"' ?(1_3 M@xxx.D2N0R8,@D8Q`Y$!(0)" > M=61;4TU4+% Z+A 'D'0 MP%$@xxx.C$W%+!-2I]%79Q4;TS?1YLGP'E?# M,BXLT2YR;S(`;RTPL4HA"8!UXU _2ZYU8FHED5)?1YO<4F58L"F3)@)S/Z] > ML]PS-D(G'<5#)D))H230=P20*!$#@6,?0!Z3'S%G_PMQ)J0F4Q_3(?$RY0?@ > M(0+_-V ?4!D@)%$X9 J%8 `$(+ M`0?@8WTJ0&,N( 5 ((,Q``J%3=\\8%ZA6S)4( (@)P5 :6!_'H E<"+Q+J(E > M("6@xxx. [HF<1 > MP&@xxx.1 :04P=RXM03YOEE(R > M(G!$25DM($%Q87-Q7Q<@052O5;<^3U B-"^@-B!#>6PQ`%!>V'XB"H5T``-P > M2:$ET';Y0'\"("5P! `P\')J6$=:WS[N1"E!6+ &$'1/4$ZQ3R?A3U T.C,T > M<,!0)G*6Y6^65VH"22 M,9(?$"CQ`9#]'K)N;Y8E=WM'* (ATR!"`2S5*#,N,4P@5N0V*3$`(%%)DH(2 > M/"'_:<$> M-RSCAZ$><+QK;B2Q'G"#%#'?=#= _Q] `, -L(73AG<$((+3-%#7;Y8AXC-0 > M M*2 FL9%Q!; ?10,`DRW!AZ%!;B#A9'8ET/^963W1&9!G4"E"/Y9REW",[WYO > M7 \+515B,A*P0R8*A048L0"C, `#`! 0``````,`$1 !````0 `',, XEW^) > M3+X!0 `(,, XEW^)3+X!`@xxx.@$````0````0-74"CJXTA&^G$1%4U0``!X` > 4/0`!````!0```%)%.B `````YQT` > ` > end ------------------------------ From: Daniel Houlton Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:42:27 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Rising rate fuel pressure regulator Mike Pitts wrote: > > Some of you may remember my recent post about my desire to > build a rising rate pressure regulator to mount in the stock location. > Carl Summers informed me that he already has such a device. > > I just received one and all I can say is WOW! What a nice piece > of engineering work! This is something I would expect to see on > a Formula-1 racer. > > If you want to take a peek, I made up a little webpage with photo > of Carl's regulator standing next to an OEM Bosch regulator. > > http://www.emi.net/~mpitts/reg.htm > Couple of questions: How much or a rising rate do you get? 2:1, 3.2:1 , 5:1? Is this amount adjustable? How much was it? I'm looking for one too and was planning on the Kenne Bell version. Kinda procrastinating because it's about $200. - --Dan ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:52:16 -0500 Subject: Re: RE:EFI Questions - -----Original Message----- From: dzorde To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Sunday, January 31, 1999 8:55 AM Subject: RE:EFI Questions Could it be due to the compression, yes. I still would first try to measure the performance, and see what changing the timing mixture does. Gray, is soot, soot is lack of O2. I don't know of anything contrary to that. Bruce >Its times like this I wish I had a digital camera. Anyway, cooling temp is >84C (180F thermostat from memory). I don't think I'm on too much advance >(8deg @1000rpm), although I have never checked what the total advance is at >max rpm. But I do know anymore and it pings. The greyness is close to the >light grey used in the Windows menu bars with a brown tint appearing. I've >tried retarding the timing, which does result in the cars seeming slower to >work its ways through the revs. > >But this keeps me getting back to the compression. The fact that the car >won't run properly if I reduce the fuel delivery (even though still reading >rich), could that be due to the extremely high compression ? > >Dan dzorde@xxx.au > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bruce Plecan [SMTP:nacelp@xxx.net] >Sent: Saturday, January 30, 1999 3:33 AM >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >Subject: Re: RE:EFI Questions > > >>Tried the plug cuts. Looks nice and clean (no detonation) but I already >>know that its OK on avgas. Plugs are a medium grey, with probably a slight >>browning of the ceramic tip (NGK BP6S plugs). And yet the car is still >>running very rich (I think around 0.8-0.9V is rich). So how does a plug >>look like its OK and yet all other indications are that its rich (got me >>puzzled) ? > >Depending on the grayness, you might be running too much timing >too rich. The gray is a sign of a sooty flame, meaning excess fuel, >running extra timing makes the motor seem like it's pulling better. >What for cooling temp ya running?. >Remember, I'm an ocean away and can't see you plugs, and just >trying to work off of what your reporting. >Bruce > ------------------------------ From: Roger Heflin Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 13:08:13 -0600 Subject: Adjusting parameters that determine BLM cell - GM ECM My car is quite modified (different cam, higher idle). I am looking at readjusting the parameters that determine what BLM cell is used where. I have determined the code that controls it and understand it. Right now: First: BLM = 0 RPM < 700 BLM = 1 700 < RPM < 1200 BLM = 2 1200 < RPM < 2000 BLM = 3 2000 < RPM Then: BLM = BLM $0154 < 0x20 BLM += 4 0x20 < $0154 < 0x32 BLM += 8 0x32 < $0154 < 0x50 BLM += 12 0x50 < $0154 I don't at this time know what $0154, I am figuring it is map related, and I going to determine what it is later today. Have others changed the parameters to move BLM Cells around? Right now, I have rather bad BLM cell coverage. With 4 or so hours of data I dont get into BLM cells 0,1 4,5 8,9 12,13 at all. Those cells are the ones indexed by rpm (0-700,700-1200), my idle is raised to more like 900 (out of gear), 950 (in gear). Also right now my BLM are way out of tune (ie BLM values close to the bottom rail (110 or so average), so everything is going to have to be tuned. Any help is appreciated from others with knowledge about this subject. Roger ------------------------------ From: Raymond C Drouillard Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 17:26:54 -0500 Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff Oops... Nope, not making light of Steve's work. Having had my hands into a few designs, I know that designing a simple circuit can be more difficult than designing a complicated one. The basic circuit for a UEGO sensor is simple, but actually assigning values to the components can take a lot more time. Also, it takes some real thought to keep the parts count from bloating as you make adjustments here and add features there. I am especially curious about that calibration resister. I could probablly figure out how to hook it up so that the circuit will be self-calibrating, but it would requre either some information that I don't have, or a test with some good test equipment and several sensors from different batches. For my application, it doesn't matter much. All I want is an output that I can divide down to 0-1 V and feed into my Holley Pro-Jection ECM. I'll just start leaning it out at cruise until it's too lean, then enrich it until I get it right. I'll do something similar at WOT. It's really cool that Holley allows you to adjust the "set point" table. That feature is useless with a HEGO sensor, but will be very useful once I get my hands on a UEGO sensor. I wonder why Holley put that feature into their ECM. Ray On Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:07:07 -0500 "Bruce Plecan" writes: > >-----Original Message----- >From: Raymond C Drouillard >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > >Date: Saturday, January 30, 1999 11:39 PM >Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff > >Gee, sounds so easy. Hmm, care to whip up a ION?. >I certainly hope you weren't making light of Steve's work. >Bruce > > >>I would buy one. Of course, if I happen to "stumble" across a design >>before the kit is available, I would simply build it myself. The >>circuitry on a UEGO isn't all that complicated. In its most basic form, >>it is a single op-amp and a few discretes. Add a few more components for >>a double-ended power supply, something to shut off the ion pump when it's >>not warm, something to regulate the heater, and you have it. >> >>Ray Drouillard >> >> >>On Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:25:13 -0600 Steve Gorkowski >>writes: >>>If one would come as a kit for under $200.00 with sensor. How many >>>would >>>buy the kit ? No sense to design if one if no one was interested in >a >>>wide O2 meter. >>> >>>Steve >>> >>>Mike Pitts wrote: >>> >>>> Any interest? Is this a waste of bandwidth? >>>> >>>> "This invention provides an self-calibrating buffer amplifier >>>> for a Universal Exhaust Gas Oxygen sensor interface circuit >>>> which couples and processes a voltage signal proportional >>>> to pumping cell current to a level and reference voltage suitable >>>> for input to an A-to-D convertor. The goal of this invention is to >>>> increase the accuracy of air-to-fuel ratio control by continually >>>> correcting for the effects of offset quantities in the amplifier >>>> stage necessary to the interface circuitry. This goal is >>>accomplished >>>> by an approach which effectively generates and subtracts these >>>> offset quantities from the processed signal. " >>>> >>>> http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?pn=US05211154__ >>>> >>>> -Mike >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>___________________________________________________________________ >>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at >http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >> > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #77 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".