DIY_EFI Digest Monday, 1 February 1999 Volume 04 : Number 080 In this issue: Re: More UEGO stuff [none] Re: Tweak your Delco's boys!!!!. Re: Memcal's Re: More UEGO stuff Re: Tweak your Delco's boys!!!!. Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) SV: fuel pumps/reservoirs Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) Re: More UEGO stuff RE: Anyone trigger a electronic IG module with points? Re: More UEGO stuff Re: Different Strokes RE: More UEGO stuff Wide Range EGO Thoughts on a new list... proj101 RE: Different Strokes Re: Thoughts on a new list... proj101 RE: Intake Runner Length Throttle Body Fuel Pressure Regulator Re: Thoughts on a new list... proj101 Re: Throttle Body Fuel Pressure Regulator Re: ECU6 EFI system construction Re: Intake Runner Length Re: Throttle Body Fuel Pressure Regulator Re: Different Strokes Re: Love This delco_edit Re: Latest Shareware of Drag Strip Plus Re: fusible link questions Re: fusible link questions Re: Love This See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "paul" Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:09:58 +1100 Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff Hi all, I checked out the motec site (autronics also sell one) but these are too expensive for me .That is why I was hoping one could be built (even as a kit) at a fraction of the cost.Motecs unit is just right with the screen and sensor. Some of us race people are on tight budgets! PAUL - ---------- > From: Ross Myers > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff > Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 1:27 PM > > > > >Hi all, > > Any idea how much the EGOR would cost? > > In another message someone mentioned building something for under > >$200 .Would this be a wide range sensor and viewed on an LCD screen? Could > >a PIC be used to read the info and send it to the screen? > >PAUL > > > Just to add my bit, I know Motec sells a wide band monitoring device for > over $1000, it also uses a 68332 Micro!!!, go here to view - > http://www.motec.com.au/lambda.htm > > Regards > > Ross Myers > > ------------------------------ From: John S Gwynne Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:10:01 -0500 Subject: [none] Subject: [admin] List services (automated monthly post) This message is post monthly as a reminder of the available list services. For help: Send "help" to Majordomo@xxx. To post: Send to "[list name]@xxx.edu" To subscribe: Send to Majordomo@xxx.edu subscribe [list name] [your email address *only* if different than your "From" address] To unsubscribe: Send to Majordomo@xxx.edu unsubscribe [list name] [your *registered* email address if different than your "From" address] The archive to each mailing list is available through the following sources: 1) WWW. http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ 2) ftp. ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ 3) Majordomo. Send "index [list name]" to Majordomo@xxx. You will find a file "archive_date_index" whose contents show the period covered by each of the archive files "archive_num_*". Digest mode is available for each mailing list. Send "lists" to Majordomo for a listing a mailing lists served. To switch to the digest mode, unsubscribe from the regular list and then subscribe to the digest version (i.e., diy_efi-digest). WWW site (for diy_efi and efi332): http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ now mirrored at http://tech.buffalostate.edu/efi Please send information to be added to this posting to jsg@xxx. John ------------------------------ From: Niki Albury Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 22:26:00 +1100 Subject: Re: Tweak your Delco's boys!!!!. I spoke to the lads from efi direct at the summer nats last month about kalmaker......well the bloke i spoke to reckons he or should i say they could make kalmaker run on the holden stuff only but coul change the base program to what ever they wanted....be it 1 or 2 bar boost or have exter I/O lines .......so if this is the case one would think that they could make it run on the USA stuff eh!! ....oh yeh ....you need lots of $$$$$$$ to get it running and then add extra every time you want to do another car.....if you just burn a eprom of the file then the car cuts out after a given time .....cute eh!!! (NO!) Justin Andrew Choset wrote: > I became very interested in this when I saw the website, so I proceeded to > e-mail the manufacturer, in order to find out if I could make use of the > product in my 88 IROC with 350TPI. Unfortunately, here's the reply I > received: > > >sorry, this is not possible. It is designed to work with a Holden Delco > ECM... > > >Cheers > > >Brad-- > >The Toy Shop Automotive Boutique > >EFI DIRECT Pty Ltd > >Technology ~ Excellence > >The Home of KalMaker Software > > Is this the case? I'd appreciate any insight into the matter. > > Thanks, > > Andrew Choset > > >> Most of the Aussies on the list will know about this company, but for the > >> other folks who don't they have some nice stuff. > >> > >> http://www.efidirect.com.au/kalmakermenu.htm > >> > > ------------------------------ From: Niki Albury Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 22:36:43 +1100 Subject: Re: Memcal's yeh keep the address comming my way and i will dig out a hand full.... Justin ECMnut@xxx.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/29/99 5:30:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, > EFISYSTEMS@xxx.com writes: > > > While we're on the memcal subject....I am in need of approx 30 blue > > memcal covers....(I had some meet an unfortunate death) Does anyone know > > where > > to buy these or does anyone have some to sell??????Thanks, > > Carl, don't say "buy", the wrong people get excited.. 8~) > gimme a snail mail address offline.. I have 2 or 3.. > Maybe others have some....? > MIke V ------------------------------ From: Niki Albury Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 22:40:48 +1100 Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff FUELTRONICS also sell them OZ! 0883632199.......cant think of URL .....getting late! Justin! paul wrote: > Hi all, > I checked out the motec site (autronics also sell one) but these > are too expensive for me .That is why I was hoping one could be built (even > as a kit) at a fraction of the cost.Motecs unit is just right with the > screen and sensor. > Some of us race people are on tight budgets! > PAUL > > ---------- > > From: Ross Myers > > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff > > Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 1:27 PM > > > > > > > > >Hi all, > > > Any idea how much the EGOR would cost? > > > In another message someone mentioned building something for > under > > >$200 .Would this be a wide range sensor and viewed on an LCD screen? > Could > > >a PIC be used to read the info and send it to the screen? > > >PAUL > > > > > > Just to add my bit, I know Motec sells a wide band monitoring device for > > over $1000, it also uses a 68332 Micro!!!, go here to view - > > http://www.motec.com.au/lambda.htm > > > > Regards > > > > Ross Myers > > > > ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:41:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Tweak your Delco's boys!!!!. - -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Choset To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 2:11 AM Subject: Re: Tweak your Delco's boys!!!!. With some wiring changes, ie converting over to MAP. You would have an 808. The 165 has the "other chip". While more clumbersome, a good editiong program, and emulator get you there also. Cheers Bruce >I became very interested in this when I saw the website, so I proceeded to >e-mail the manufacturer, in order to find out if I could make use of the >product in my 88 IROC with 350TPI. Unfortunately, here's the reply I >received: > >>sorry, this is not possible. It is designed to work with a Holden Delco >ECM... > >>Cheers > >>Brad-- >>The Toy Shop Automotive Boutique >>EFI DIRECT Pty Ltd >>Technology ~ Excellence >>The Home of KalMaker Software > >Is this the case? I'd appreciate any insight into the matter. > >Thanks, > >Andrew Choset > > > > > >>> Most of the Aussies on the list will know about this company, but for the >>> other folks who don't they have some nice stuff. >>> >>> http://www.efidirect.com.au/kalmakermenu.htm >>> >> > ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:48:19 -0500 Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) - -----Original Message----- From: Walter Sherwin To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Sunday, January 31, 1999 9:13 PM Subject: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) This idea, just universally raises the entire table. Seldon is what is needed. Playing with the coolant temp/MAT, and MAP signals all do the same thing. There ain't no short cuts, reprogramming done right, takes time. Bruce >Sounds like there is a lot of pent up UEGO talent out there. Here is an >idea for a product that about half of us could really use right now (I'd >buy two if I could find such an animal). Picture >this........................................................you are working >on a GM style MAP based system, that is to be converted to artificial >aspiration. Perhaps it was originally artificially aspirated, or perhaps it >was not. Once the basic control "system" is in place, you and I are still >faced with the challenge of remappping the open loop VE tables. Remapping >the VE's can be done labouriously, through data logging, and post hex >editing. > >What about a control box which would take a UEGO signal, and perform an >appropriate transform equation, and then export the resultant signal to an >output port which one could connect to the O2 sensor pin of an OEM MAP >computer. The goal would be to make an artificial setpoint (say 11.5:1 >A/F ratio) appear to the OEM computer as stoich. If this were possible, >then one could use the OEM computer to generate BLM's and iteratively (read >this as safely) reach the perfect "MAP" while driving, or while on a chassis >dyno. Imagine, in one afternoon, you could do the work of several days. >This would even help the normally aspirated guys. > >Just food for thought. If anyone comes up with one of these (or knows where >I can find one) then let me know, please. > > > >Thanks; >Walt. > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bruce Plecan >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> >Date: Saturday, January 30, 1999 9:39 PM >Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff > > >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Raymond C Drouillard >>To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> >>Date: Saturday, January 30, 1999 11:39 PM >>Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff >> >>Gee, sounds so easy. Hmm, care to whip up a ION?. >>I certainly hope you weren't making light of Steve's work. >>Bruce >> >> >>>I would buy one. Of course, if I happen to "stumble" across a design >>>before the kit is available, I would simply build it myself. The >>>circuitry on a UEGO isn't all that complicated. In its most basic form, >>>it is a single op-amp and a few discretes. Add a few more components for >>>a double-ended power supply, something to shut off the ion pump when it's >>>not warm, something to regulate the heater, and you have it. >>> >>>Ray Drouillard >>> >>> >>>On Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:25:13 -0600 Steve Gorkowski >>>writes: >>>>If one would come as a kit for under $200.00 with sensor. How many >>>>would >>>>buy the kit ? No sense to design if one if no one was interested in a >>>>wide O2 meter. >>>> >>>>Steve >>>> >>>>Mike Pitts wrote: >>>> >>>>> Any interest? Is this a waste of bandwidth? >>>>> >>>>> "This invention provides an self-calibrating buffer amplifier >>>>> for a Universal Exhaust Gas Oxygen sensor interface circuit >>>>> which couples and processes a voltage signal proportional >>>>> to pumping cell current to a level and reference voltage suitable >>>>> for input to an A-to-D convertor. The goal of this invention is to >>>>> increase the accuracy of air-to-fuel ratio control by continually >>>>> correcting for the effects of offset quantities in the amplifier >>>>> stage necessary to the interface circuitry. This goal is >>>>accomplished >>>>> by an approach which effectively generates and subtracts these >>>>> offset quantities from the processed signal. " >>>>> >>>>> http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?pn=US05211154__ >>>>> >>>>> -Mike >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>___________________________________________________________________ >>>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >>>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >>>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >>> >> > ------------------------------ From: "Gustaf Ulander" Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:13:48 +0100 Subject: SV: fuel pumps/reservoirs Hi all! Long time no post... - ---------- > Från: Mike Pilkenton > > Well I'm deep into my engine conversion project and need to install an > electric fuel pump for the EFI engine (3.1L V6). Question is do I have to > put the fuel pump back in the tank or can I install the pump up by the > engine. I know I need the high pressure type made for FI engines and not > the carb (low pressure). Mounting anaftermarket in-line pump up by the > engine sure would be more convenient. Any advice would be appreciated. > I had a similar problem when converting my Capri ( http://www.look.at/Ford_Capri , BlackMagicCapri ) to Bosch K-jetronic. Did as some described here, a small reservoir (0,7 liters) in the engine compartment, fed by the standard mech. fuel pump. Low pressure (LP) in near the bottom, outlet to the high pressure (HP) pump at the bottom. Return line from K-jet at near the top, LP return to the gas tank at the top. Seemed to work Ok except for a hesitation accelerating out of lefthanders at the track. Probably because the mech fuel pump couldn't keep up. Since I am about to redesign the reservoir to this season, I'd be interested in any input on the design. Regards Gustaf Ulander, Sweden ------------------------------ From: Wen Yen Chan Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:37:11 -0500 Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) Hello, Checkout the Field SFC-VTEC controller. In addition to allowing you to change the VTEC cut-over point it allows some adjustments (the transfer function can be a non linear function of engine speed and map) to be made to the fuel curves. On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Bruce Plecan wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Walter Sherwin > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > Date: Sunday, January 31, 1999 9:13 PM > Subject: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) > > This idea, just universally raises the entire table. Seldon is what is > needed. > Playing with the coolant temp/MAT, and MAP signals all do the same thing. > There ain't no short cuts, reprogramming done right, takes time. > Bruce > > > >Sounds like there is a lot of pent up UEGO talent out there. Here is an > >idea for a product that about half of us could really use right now (I'd > >buy two if I could find such an animal). Picture > >this........................................................you are working > >on a GM style MAP based system, that is to be converted to artificial > >aspiration. Perhaps it was originally artificially aspirated, or perhaps > it > >was not. Once the basic control "system" is in place, you and I are still > >faced with the challenge of remappping the open loop VE tables. Remapping > >the VE's can be done labouriously, through data logging, and post hex > >editing. > > > >What about a control box which would take a UEGO signal, and perform an > >appropriate transform equation, and then export the resultant signal to an > >output port which one could connect to the O2 sensor pin of an OEM MAP > >computer. The goal would be to make an artificial setpoint (say 11.5:1 > >A/F ratio) appear to the OEM computer as stoich. If this were possible, > >then one could use the OEM computer to generate BLM's and iteratively (read > >this as safely) reach the perfect "MAP" while driving, or while on a > chassis > >dyno. Imagine, in one afternoon, you could do the work of several days. > >This would even help the normally aspirated guys. > > > >Just food for thought. If anyone comes up with one of these (or knows > where > >I can find one) then let me know, please. > > > > > > > >Thanks; > >Walt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Bruce Plecan > >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > >Date: Saturday, January 30, 1999 9:39 PM > >Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff > > > > > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: Raymond C Drouillard > >>To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > >>Date: Saturday, January 30, 1999 11:39 PM > >>Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff > >> > >>Gee, sounds so easy. Hmm, care to whip up a ION?. > >>I certainly hope you weren't making light of Steve's work. > >>Bruce > >> > >> > >>>I would buy one. Of course, if I happen to "stumble" across a design > >>>before the kit is available, I would simply build it myself. The > >>>circuitry on a UEGO isn't all that complicated. In its most basic form, > >>>it is a single op-amp and a few discretes. Add a few more components for > >>>a double-ended power supply, something to shut off the ion pump when it's > >>>not warm, something to regulate the heater, and you have it. > >>> > >>>Ray Drouillard > >>> > >>> > >>>On Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:25:13 -0600 Steve Gorkowski > >>>writes: > >>>>If one would come as a kit for under $200.00 with sensor. How many > >>>>would > >>>>buy the kit ? No sense to design if one if no one was interested in a > >>>>wide O2 meter. > >>>> > >>>>Steve > >>>> > >>>>Mike Pitts wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Any interest? Is this a waste of bandwidth? > >>>>> > >>>>> "This invention provides an self-calibrating buffer amplifier > >>>>> for a Universal Exhaust Gas Oxygen sensor interface circuit > >>>>> which couples and processes a voltage signal proportional > >>>>> to pumping cell current to a level and reference voltage suitable > >>>>> for input to an A-to-D convertor. The goal of this invention is to > >>>>> increase the accuracy of air-to-fuel ratio control by continually > >>>>> correcting for the effects of offset quantities in the amplifier > >>>>> stage necessary to the interface circuitry. This goal is > >>>>accomplished > >>>>> by an approach which effectively generates and subtracts these > >>>>> offset quantities from the processed signal. " > >>>>> > >>>>> http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?pn=US05211154__ > >>>>> > >>>>> -Mike > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>___________________________________________________________________ > >>>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > >>>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > >>>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > >>> > >> > > > > ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:20:34 -0700 Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff >FUELTRONICS also sell them > Gotta URL for FUELTRONICS??? Greg ------------------------------ From: "Van Setten, Tim (AZ75)" Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:19:13 -0700 Subject: RE: Anyone trigger a electronic IG module with points? > Subject: Anyone trigger a electronic IG module with points? > You might want to try a company called "Pertronix". I did a search on the net and found one site at: http://www.justbmws.com/pertronix.html We have used these point conversion electronic ignitions in our sandrails with great success. We run a lot of different engines and they seem to make one for everything. The best part is that just in case it does screw up, you can still put the points back in and drive home! Good luck....Tim. ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:51:41 -0500 Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff - -----Original Message----- From: Greg Hermann To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 10:33 AM Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff Might try www.fueltronics.com.au Least that's what Doc says Bruce >>FUELTRONICS also sell them >> >Gotta URL for FUELTRONICS??? > >Greg > > ------------------------------ From: "David Sagers" Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 08:59:14 -0700 Subject: Re: Different Strokes James thanks. Max RPM = 7000, but only in a serious race. The car is mostly for fun and as a hotrod to build and admire. Most of the driving will be on warm summer afternoons. >>> James Ballenger 01/29 5:51 PM >>> David Sagers wrote: > The builder said that a short stroke engine will respond better to a turbo as it'll rev faster. So I'm looking for someone with knowledge and experience with turbo engines. Do I go with the shorter stoke that'll rev faster, or go with the 4" stroke that makes a lot of torque, especially in the low RPM ranges. Low RPM torque seems to be important as this is going to be a street engine generally run in the lower RPM ranges. I've thought about a twin turbo Poncho 400 ;^) How high do you need to rev to get full boost? The smaller stroke responding better would make sense. With enough boost, you could get plenty of torque and good hp. How high are you going to rev this engine? James Ballenger ------------------------------ From: "Barry E. King" Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:04:31 -0700 Subject: RE: More UEGO stuff Their new addy is http://www.fueltronics.com.au/. Regards, Barry > -----Original Message----- > >FUELTRONICS also sell them > > > Gotta URL for FUELTRONICS??? > > Greg ------------------------------ From: bob@xxx.com (Robert Harris) Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 16:18:59 GMT Subject: Wide Range EGO Ray, others - if the parts are about 20 bucks cept the UEGO and a board first off - small quantity -is about 50 bucks - I'll take up a collection and write you a check for several as soon as you are ready. Don't forget to include in the price pizza and a bucket of beer. Hell, all most of want is to: A: Understand the technology - we think its neat (dating myself) B: Use the technology for our thangs C: Acquire it without domestic budget consent Please don't misunderstand if some of us are very curious. Saying its doable affects some of us like showing up with a truck load of girl scout cookies at a dirty old man in raincoats convention. We NEED need need need want want want pant pant oh oh oh - who's yor daddeeeeeee!!!!! one. A quick consensus says 0 - 5 volts output - fine for meters etc O to 1 with Stoic about .5 makes it almost a drop in. And the adjustable crossing point - pleeeeze. And hopefully electronically setable so a stamp can control it. Most of us just want one, and if it turns into a viable commercial opportunity for you, more power, just as long as C above applies. Thanking you in advance for your none look up the patent - it will only be available to those willing to Monica the developer attitude and approach. 1963 Ford C-600 Prison Bus Conversion "Home" 1971 Lincoln Continental 460 "Christine" 1972 "Whale" Mustang awaiting transplant 1978 Dodge Long Bed Peeek Up "Bundymobile" Habaneros - not just for breakfast anymore ------------------------------ From: jsg@xxx.com Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 11:45:13 -0500 Subject: Thoughts on a new list... proj101 I'm becoming more and more interested in understanding the code (not just tables) of my 165. I would like to see a forum were we could more openly share such information. (is that possible?). I would like your comments on setting up a third mailing list that focuses on the project 101 material. This list would complement diy_efi and efi332 and serve to separate project 101 material into its own archive. I would also like a volunteer to actively maintain a web page for it (at the efi332 site). Possible name: proj101@xxx.edu john gwynne ------------------------------ From: Mike Pitts Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:01:31 -0500 Subject: RE: Different Strokes >>How high do you need to rev to get full boost? This is a *common* misconception about turbocharged engines. Boost is not RPM dependent, as it is with superchargers. Boost is mostly a function of engine load. IE: You can be driving down the highway at 3000 RPM (for instance) with zero boost or even vacuum. But pulling a heavy trailer up a steep hill at the same, or even lower RPM, can yield full boost. - -Mike ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:23:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Thoughts on a new list... proj101 - -----Original Message----- From: jsg@xxx.com> To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 11:54 AM Subject: Thoughts on a new list... proj101 I'd be all for it, with one big note, that it includes the basics, ie there is some talent to be called upon, who have the time, to read the code, but don't have the oportunity to go back to school to learn how. I for one have been trying to figure it out, but that darn CSH keeps falling over my eyes. Also, I'd only agree to the 165 as a starting point. The 730 is really nice, to work with. If the intent is just to do one ecm, then I'd say picking one that is as versatile as possible, something like a 8625. Cheers Bruce Doc, and Grumpy are already booting up their laptops > >I'm becoming more and more interested in understanding the >code (not just tables) of my 165. I would like to see >a forum were we could more openly share such information. >(is that possible?). > >I would like your comments on setting up a third >mailing list that focuses on the project 101 material. >This list would complement diy_efi and efi332 and serve >to separate project 101 material into its own archive. >I would also like a volunteer to actively maintain a web >page for it (at the efi332 site). > >Possible name: proj101@xxx.edu > >john gwynne > ------------------------------ From: "Van Setten, Tim (AZ75)" Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:39:48 -0700 Subject: RE: Intake Runner Length > Subject: Intake Runner Length > > > > What for ecm?. > We ended up conjuring our own. (Mainly by swiping circuits out of every known ecm in the free world). We wanted a box with knobs on it that controls the basic fuel curve. It's not a good idea to take a lap top out into the sand dunes to change the fuel curve. > We want to try > >different intake manifold combinations. > > > For plenum, start at engine displacement, and going as high as 2x > displacement wouldn't be a worry, as long as it worked. > When I can I build the plenum, so I can add layers of spacers. > I'd also, do that for runner lengths if I were you. > Now, the runner diameters is a real nasty issue, ie lots of possibles. > Stock Car Racing Mag several years ago had an article about them > as I recall. > With a VW head aren't you rather limited in port diameter?. > Bruce > Actually not, the after-market heads can get quite large. I have actually seen some valves that looked as big a Coke can. I made a trip to our local pick-n-pull junk yard here in Phx, and I haven't done the numbers yet, but the average runner length is about 17 inches, and the plenums are about the same as engine displacement. Here is where it gets interesting: The average daily driver car has round runners about 1 1/4 or so in dia. The go-fast cars (Ford Mustang 5.0, Honda V-tek, etc.) usually have square or rectangle runners. And the drag racers say the "trick" runner shape should be like the letter "D". I didn't expect so many variations! Thanks for all the inputs.....Tim. ------------------------------ From: Teller.John@xxx.com Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:40:38 -0500 Subject: Throttle Body Fuel Pressure Regulator I'm in the process of rebuilding the carbon-fouled head on my Buick 2.5L 4, and have taken apart the Throttle body for a thorough dunking in the can of parts cleaner. Of course, the regulator can't go in there because of the rubber bits, but all the GM manuals explicitly state that it must not be taken apart, even though it is attached to a very dirty bracket that ought to go in the bath with the rest of the TB. Is there something highly calibrated in there that would be destroyed if the regulator were disassembled, or is the warning there because the thing needs to be taken apart in a press and the spring pressure let out slowly? - --- John T. ------------------------------ From: Roger Heflin Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:58:39 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Thoughts on a new list... proj101 On Mon, 1 Feb 1999 jsg@xxx.com wrote: > > I'm becoming more and more interested in understanding the > code (not just tables) of my 165. I would like to see > a forum were we could more openly share such information. > (is that possible?). > > I would like your comments on setting up a third > mailing list that focuses on the project 101 material. > This list would complement diy_efi and efi332 and serve > to separate project 101 material into its own archive. > I would also like a volunteer to actively maintain a web > page for it (at the efi332 site). > > Possible name: proj101@xxx.edu > > john gwynne > I would probably try to add a generic understand and reversing manufacturers ECM code list. Alot of the code is very similar between all of the different ECM's. The code is different, but the functions are very very similar. Maybe call the list gmecm? or something similar? Roger ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:15:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Throttle Body Fuel Pressure Regulator - -----Original Message----- From: Teller.John@xxx.com> To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 12:53 PM Subject: Throttle Body Fuel Pressure Regulator I've taken them apart just using my hands to hold the spring collasped. But, I do have a firm gripe (with my hands, now reality is another matter) Bruce >Is there something highly calibrated in there that would be destroyed if >the regulator were disassembled, or is the warning there because the thing >needs to be taken apart in a press and the spring pressure let out slowly? > >--- John T. > > ------------------------------ From: Al Lipper Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 10:34:59 -0800 Subject: Re: ECU6 EFI system construction Tom, I'm almost ready to post the schematics for ECU7 - the latest revision. I'll let everyone know when they're up. In the meantime, check http://members.aol.com/ALIPPER/ for updates. Al ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:32:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Intake Runner Length - -----Original Message----- From: Van Setten, Tim (AZ75) To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 12:53 PM Subject: RE: Intake Runner Length >> What for ecm?. > We ended up conjuring our own. (Mainly by swiping circuits out of >every known ecm in the free world). We wanted a box with knobs on it that >controls the basic fuel curve. It's not a good idea to take a lap top out >into the sand dunes to change the fuel curve. Care to give any details about the ecm?. and the plenums are about the same as engine displacement. Here is >where it gets interesting: The average daily driver car has round runners >about 1 1/4 or so in dia. The go-fast cars (Ford Mustang 5.0, Honda V-tek, >etc.) usually have square or rectangle runners. And the drag racers say the >"trick" runner shape should be like the letter "D". I didn't expect so many >variations! The round vs rect, is really common American compared to Euro, over the years this may be mellowing some. The D port is from what "chev" has done with the exhaust port, probably some else did it first, it's just they are so common...... Bruce > Thanks for all the inputs.....Tim. > ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 13:32:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Throttle Body Fuel Pressure Regulator There's a diaphragm and a spring inside. Be prepared for it, and all will be fine. A press is probably overkill. Consider a lawyer working for GM. "Take it apart? What if it starts leaking fuel? That could be dangerous!" At least that was the impression one of the GM instructors left me with. Shannen Teller.John@xxx.com wrote: > > I'm in the process of rebuilding the carbon-fouled head on my Buick 2.5L 4, > and have taken apart the Throttle body for a thorough dunking in the can of > parts cleaner. Of course, the regulator can't go in there because of the > rubber bits, but all the GM manuals explicitly state that it must not be > taken apart, even though it is attached to a very dirty bracket that ought > to go in the bath with the rest of the TB. > > Is there something highly calibrated in there that would be destroyed if > the regulator were disassembled, or is the warning there because the thing > needs to be taken apart in a press and the spring pressure let out slowly? > > --- John T. ------------------------------ From: "David Sagers" Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 11:41:45 -0700 Subject: Re: Different Strokes Thanks all for the info, there are a lot of very bright people on this list, and I appreciate your help. I'm calling the engine builder this afternoon and will build a 4" stroke SBC using a Rodeck alum block made for the 4' stroke. In order to make this combination live for a long time I'll be using a 4340 non twisted crankshaft, 6" Carrillo rods and pistons from JE or Wiseco. I'm also going to take the advice to have the pistons coated, both the crowns and the skirts, and I'm going to send the heads and exhaust manifolds in for the heat barrier coatings. I also agree with ECMnut@xxx." (and yes, you are welcome to come over for a test ride!!) Thanks again everyone! >Carl Summers wrote: > It has been my experience that it does take less time for the >engine to accelerate with a shorter stroke,,,but like you said the >larger cu in will give more streetable torque and that would >probably be the trade off I would take if I already had the parts >as you do.....The biggest downfall of the 4" arm is the fact that >you have very little(if any...was this 350 mains or 400?) journal >overlap and if you are planning to make alot of hp(1000+) and/or >rpm,,expect this crank to crack probably after 30 1/4 mile >blasts.....just some experience....hth's >-Carl Summers ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 13:49:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Love This Tom Sharpe wrote: > > > How do you PWM a 15 amp load??? Someone design a circuit please. Can the driver > board be mase to work?? > > TIA TOM That's a good question. How do they PWM the coolant fans? I know I can hear the relay clicking away.. Shannen ------------------------------ From: "Guenther,Max" Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:49:23 -0500 Subject: delco_edit Where is delco edit. I looked in 332 incoming but can't find it. Found gnuplot.exe. though. Could someone e-mail it to me if its not there anymore. And if I'm blind please let me know! It appears to me that # of cylinders does not determine the ECM.? In other words I might find a Grand Am with the same ECM as the Corvette? 1227727 I believe. Just change the chip and away? Thanks, Max ------------------------------ From: steve ravet Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 13:05:35 -0600 Subject: Re: Latest Shareware of Drag Strip Plus Thanks Bruce... The latest version of drag strip plus is in the incoming directory at ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, race406s.zip - --steve Bruce Plecan wrote: > > Ya wanna post this in place of the old one?. > Thanks > Bruce > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: race406s.zip > race406s.zip Type: Zip Compressed Data (application/x-zip-compressed) > Encoding: base64 ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 14:03:54 -0500 Subject: Re: fusible link questions James Weiler wrote: > > gents, > > Can somebody tell me why fusible links are all the rage now rather > than a fuse? Is there some niffty piece of info on these things that I'm > missing? Fusible links are designed to take a brief overloads without failing. They're great for things like fan motors, which have high initial current draw. According to a service bulletin, fuses can blow because of expansion/contraction of the element due to quick high loads. I'm not making this up, they called it thermal fatigue. And fuses need a fuse holder and extra wiring. (Co$t) > > Secondly, how do you convert fusible link guage to Amps? i.e. 20 GA > fusible link will blow at what amperage? I don't know that, but a fusible link should be 2 AWG sizes smaller than the wire it's attached to. 10 ga wire should have 14 ga fusible link. Length should be kept to a minimum. Shannen > > thanks to all in advance > jw ------------------------------ From: steve ravet Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 13:12:46 -0600 Subject: Re: fusible link questions James Weiler wrote: > > gents, > > Can somebody tell me why fusible links are all the rage now rather > than a fuse? Is there some niffty piece of info on these things that I'm > missing? Just from the couple cars I own, I see fusible links used between the battery and the fuse box, but not after the fuse box, and not directly to anything else. Why they use them instead of inline fuses, I'm not sure. > > Secondly, how do you convert fusible link guage to Amps? i.e. 20 GA > fusible link will blow at what amperage? > > thanks to all in advance > jw - --steve ------------------------------ From: Roger Heflin Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:23:50 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Love This On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Shannen Durphey wrote: > Tom Sharpe wrote: > > > > > > > How do you PWM a 15 amp load??? Someone design a circuit please. Can the driver > > board be mase to work?? > > > > TIA TOM > That's a good question. How do they PWM the coolant fans? I know I > can hear the relay clicking away.. > Shannen My guess would be that you would need at least two stages, first a small transistor to provide enougn current to drive the actual power transistor. I don't know what you would need for a power transistor. I think the 2N3055 maxs out a 15 amps in a TO-3 case with a heat sink, so you might need to look for something slightly bigger, and you would probably have to watch the PWM on/off cycle to make sure the on/off steps are not too fast for the power transistor. Roger ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #80 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".