DIY_EFI Digest Friday, 5 February 1999 Volume 04 : Number 091 In this issue: Re: Newbie questions Re: 92 tracker ecm Re: fusible link questions Re: Tweak your Delco's boys!!!!. [none] Re: fusible link questions bmw binary files TORK??? Re: Rising rate fuel pressure regulator Re: home dyno kit?? Photos and ECU7 EFI Schematics are online! Re: fusible link questions Re: any one played with MR2 superchargers? RE: Photos and ECU7 EFI Schematics are online! Re: PulseWidthModulation comments crank position sensor See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shannen Durphey Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 22:44:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Newbie questions Jim Yeagley wrote: > > EFI gurus, > > > I would like to use a GM TBI system, say from a Chevy Caprice or truck, > since I've had a little experience a few years back with GM computers. > > Jim Yeagley Jus curious, what types of experience? Shannen ------------------------------ From: ECMnut@xxx.com Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:50:44 EST Subject: Re: 92 tracker ecm In a message dated 2/4/99 2:25:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, pford@xxx.com writes: > do any of you know what ecm my tracker uses ( if it's a > gm or suzuki) looks like suzy.. 91-94 sidekick has the same one. So does 92-93 Sunrunner.. ident on the box: Manual: 33920-56B30 Autotrns 33920-56B40 HTH Mike V ------------------------------ From: Jim Davies Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:01:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: fusible link questions On Thu, 4 Feb 1999 AL8001@xxx.com wrote: > > A alternator is current limited by the size of the stator windings and , to a > lesser extent, the size of the rotor ( field ) windings. > And by the max amperage to the rotor. ------------------------------ From: "Ross Myers" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:40:57 +1100 Subject: Re: Tweak your Delco's boys!!!!. >As far as I know the KALMAKER will work in nearly all DELCO ecu in Australia >manufactured up intil about 1996 except the latest model cars the use the >newer generation ECU and MAF instead of MAP. Got a message from them the other day on the PCM's, and they do all of them but only the latest ones in house, or $5000!!! for the unit. Ross Myers ------------------------------ From: Steve Sassine Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:01:22 +1100 (EST) Subject: [none] >From steve I am after any motronic binary file from a 1990 to 1995 bmw car. If any body has one or knows of a place I can get one please email me at the address shown below. If you have a file, please attach the binary file to the messasge. Thankyou !! steve n9480320@xxx.au ------------------------------ From: Raymond C Drouillard Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:54:32 -0500 Subject: Re: fusible link questions On Thu, 04 Feb 1999 20:29:48 -0500 "David A. Cooley" writes: >At 05:56 PM 2/4/99 -0700, you wrote: >> >>OK--so who's gonna be the first to suggest building a device to limit the >>charging rate of the battery (and to correct charging voltage (to the >>battery only) for battery temperature, while we're at it?? > >Chrysler! > >On my 95 neon there was a battery temp sensor and the PCM controlled the >alternator. >Charging voltage varied with temp. The alternater in my '89 Jeep Grand Wagoneer senses the ambient temperature and adjusts the voltage accordingly. I'm not sure when Jeep started using that design. I believe that the newer batteries are more tolerant of high charging current. That may be why the electronic regulaters don't bother limiting output current. I suspect that the main reason is that the accessories in a modern car draw so much current. Ray ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ From: Steve Sassine Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:13:21 +1100 (EST) Subject: bmw binary files I am after any motronic eprom binary files from a 1990 to 1995 bmw car. If you have any or know of somebody how can help me please reply to the email address shown below. Also if you have a file please attach to the message. Thankyou !! steve n9480320@xxx.au ------------------------------ From: A70Duster@xxx.com Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 00:29:24 EST Subject: TORK??? In a message dated 2/4/1999 8:00:22 PM Mountain Standard Time, bearbvd@xxx.net writes: << Doesn't matter what the speeds are doing, input torque, output torque and reaction torque must sum to zero. >> Or mass times ACCELERATION, which is why we are all here!!!!! ------------------------------ From: "Mike Pitts" Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 00:29:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Rising rate fuel pressure regulator >Couple of questions: How much or a rising rate do you get? 2:1, >3.2:1 , 5:1? Is this amount adjustable? How much was it? I'm >looking for one too and was planning on the Kenne Bell version. >Kinda procrastinating because it's about $200. I'm not certain of the rate yet, but I think it's either 1:1, 2:1, or 3:1, depending on how many ports the installer connects. For my application, 2:1 would be just about perfect. I hope to have the car running with it this weekend. I'm not familiar with Kenne-Bell's rising rate regulator, only their standard adjustable (1:1) regulator. This one is similar in price though. Given the aid in tuning it will provide, I think it is well worth it. http://www.emi.net/~mpitts/reg.htm I updated the webpage listed above BTW. I added a few more photos showing how the regulator looks on the fuel rail. The closeup photo is of the "press-in" fitting. We made this on a milling lathe so that the FPR would mount in the stock location without modifying the rail itself. - -Mike ------------------------------ From: xxalexx@xxx.com Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 01:42:25 +0000 Subject: Re: home dyno kit?? > On Sat, 30 Jan 1999, Mike Pitts wrote: > > > >Electromotive and many other systems uses a wheel with many thoths, > > >it could give nice resolution for computing accleration, ... > > > > Also, if it has enough teeth, you can detect weak cylinders > > by comparing the waveform in the range of each cylinder. > > (ie: the teeth will slow ever so slightly for when a weak cylinder > > if firing) > > > > It is teeth every 6 degrees. So there are quite a few teeth. I > thought GM was using a wheel with 4 teeth (every 90 degrees) to catch > misfires, so every 6 degrees would seem to give really accurate info. > > I have one of those trigger wheels. Any ideal where I can get a crank > sensor and what I would have to do to it to make this work? Run it > into an op-amp and amp the signal and then do something with it? At > 6000 rpm thought, those signals will be running at 3khz so an audio > recorder may be a problem, and a more exoitic signal recorder or > circuit may be required. > A DSP digital signal processing chip alex ------------------------------ From: Al Lipper Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 23:12:43 -0800 Subject: Photos and ECU7 EFI Schematics are online! Well, the newest version of the self-contained EFI system (ECU6) is online, and is creatively named ECU7. I've provided the schematics and parts list for the time being. We are working on the PC board layout, and will hopefully have that done soon enough. Special thanks to John Ferguson for his effeciency and skill in turning ECU6 into version 7. We still need people familiar with 8051 programming to get in on the software end of things. If this is you and you have some time, let me know - things are moving at a good pace. The new stuff is at: http://members.aol.com/ALIPPER/ BTW, If anyone notices problems or errors in ECU7, please let me know! Al efi@xxx.org ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 02:17:35 -0500 Subject: Re: fusible link questions I seem to remember the regulator in the SI alternator being touted as temperature compensating. Eventually, memories give way to "as long as the darn thing keeps working." Shannen Raymond C Drouillard wrote: > > On Thu, 04 Feb 1999 20:29:48 -0500 "David A. Cooley" > writes: > >At 05:56 PM 2/4/99 -0700, you wrote: > >> > >>OK--so who's gonna be the first to suggest building a device to limit > the > >>charging rate of the battery (and to correct charging voltage (to the > >>battery only) for battery temperature, while we're at it?? > > > >Chrysler! > > > >On my 95 neon there was a battery temp sensor and the PCM controlled the > >alternator. > >Charging voltage varied with temp. > > The alternater in my '89 Jeep Grand Wagoneer senses the ambient > temperature and adjusts the voltage accordingly. I'm not sure when Jeep > started using that design. > > I believe that the newer batteries are more tolerant of high charging > current. That may be why the electronic regulaters don't bother limiting > output current. I suspect that the main reason is that the accessories > in a modern car draw so much current. > > Ray > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ From: Chris Conlon Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 02:37:30 -0500 Subject: Re: any one played with MR2 superchargers? At 09:03 PM 2/3/99 -0500, Robert Scott Winnicki wrote: >specifically, anyone ever taken one of these off the MR@ and used it >somewhere else, like say a rotory. From what I've read about them they I had sent a note in private but was thinking along the lines of "I got one cheap, what can I do with it?", not "What SC should I get?". The MR2 supercharger has a (slightly) bigger brother. In the US it's used on the Previa S/C, and maybe nowhere else. It's ~15% bigger than the MR2 unit but. One person pointed out, quite rightfully, that the MR2 SC would likely be too small for your engine at full tilt. But, consider that you don't need the SC to provide full boost at WOT/redline, you need it to provide decent, instant boost at low RPM to help spin up the turbo. So even a smaller unit *might* be enough. What Steve N. said about hassles with bypass valves, is all too true though. There are at least 2 places I've heard of that claim to port or otherwise modify the SC to increase the efficiency. I dunno how true these claims are, but a 10% gain might be had. If you're looking for a SC to spin up an oversized turbo, it sounds like you want a positive displacement unit. A centrifugal supercharger would be more efficient, but won't give much boost until higher RPMs. Not exactly what you need. If you're already looking at a full custom setup, I would seriously consider the Opcon Autorotor, sold in the US as the Whipplecharger: Whipple Industries 3292 North Weber Fresno CA 93722 209 442 1261 209 442 4153 fax (Hopefully this info is current.) This is a Lysholm screw type unit, which is positive displacement, but a lot more efficient than the Toyota Roots units, or the Eaton modified Roots units. This means less crank HP consumed, less heat and more boost. MacInnes mentions this type of SC but says that it's too expensive for common use, or at least it was at the time. Whipple sells bolt-on kits for a bunch of vehicles, but don't really seem to be aiming at the hi-po market, more like towing and hauling uses. And IIRC they have the exclusive license to sell these units in the US, which, if they're half as good as they sound, is a big loss for Opcon. I plan to find out eventually. I'm oh so slowly building up a new motor for my SC MR2, and one of the key changes is to lose the stock SC and use a Lysholm unit instead. If anyone here has actually *used* one of these units... I'd love to hear more and maybe ask you a few questions about them. Hope this helps, Chris C. ------------------------------ From: Wayne Macdonald Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:48:17 +1100 Subject: RE: Photos and ECU7 EFI Schematics are online! - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE5148.DFFC1F50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Will you be having PCB's made, and if so can I put my name down for a few ?. Wayne. - ---------- From: Al Lipper Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 6:12 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Photos and ECU7 EFI Schematics are online! Well, the newest version of the self-contained EFI system (ECU6) is online, and is creatively named ECU7. I've provided the schematics and parts list for the time being. We are working on the PC board layout, and will hopefully have that done soon enough. Special thanks to John Ferguson for his effeciency and skill in turning ECU6 into version 7. We still need people familiar with 8051 programming to get in on the software end of things. If this is you and you have some time, let me know - things are moving at a good pace. The new stuff is at: http://members.aol.com/ALIPPER/ BTW, If anyone notices problems or errors in ECU7, please let me know! 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When I first developed > this PWM motor controller, I was trying to run it at 20KHz also. But the > motor was down on power. The PWM was confined to a "conventional" switching supply - a transistor, diode, inductor, and capacitor. The motor saw only a DC voltage. It would have been possible to use the motor as the inductor, but the boss didn't want to experiment on a one-off cu$tom motor. > Sounds as thou the noise is from the P/S, and not the motor. I've only > heard a light whine from the motors, and only at lower speeds. So hopefully > the noise won't be enough to drive folks out of the car . Yes, this noise came from the power supply, not the motor. I don't know what would happen if the motor had high frequency PWM flowing through it. - -- Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ ------------------------------ From: "Tom Parker" Date: 05 Feb 99 22:51:38 +1200 Subject: crank position sensor Hi, As I've mentioned before, I'm thinking of building an ignition control computer for my Mini. I plan to use the Tim Drury article as a basis. My Mini engine does not have a crankshaft position sensor. I need to fabricate or buy a toothed wheel and aproprate sensor. Then I have to mount it somewhere. I've been thinking. The flywheel already has a ring gear for the starter motor on it. Could these teeth be used? There are somewhere in the region of 100 teeth on it, (I'm not going to count them accuratly yet). They are 9mm apart and the ends are 2mm thick. What sort of sensor could detect these? With a top engine speed of 8000 rpm, there would be around 14000 teeth going past every second, thats 70 micro seconds... I can make a divider if the computer can't keep up. I would have to use a sensor somewhere else to detect TDC, but that shouldn't be too dificult. How many teeth are necessary? I could - -- Tom Parker - tparker@xxx.nz - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #91 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".