DIY_EFI Digest Saturday, 6 February 1999 Volume 04 : Number 093 In this issue: Re: Rising rate fuel pressure regulator Re: any one played with MR2 superchargers? RE: Electric fuel pressure gauge. Re: Plugs for flare fittings? Re: fusible link questions Re: fusible link questions Re: Plugs for flare fittings? re: Plugs for flare fittings? Re: TORK??? Re: fusible link questions Re: fusible link questions See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mike Pitts" Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:24:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Rising rate fuel pressure regulator It's a 70mm from Kenne-Bell. Costs $299 with the upper plenum. - -Mike - -----Original Message----- From: Walter Sherwin To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Friday, February 05, 1999 7:03 AM Subject: Re: Rising rate fuel pressure regulator >Very interesting pictures! What is the blade diameter of the Throttle Body >in the background, and where did you find it? I have been looking for >something very similar. > >Thanks; >Walt. ------------------------------ From: "Quested, Simon" Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 16:29:34 +1300 Subject: Re: any one played with MR2 superchargers? Hi Bob > specifically, anyone ever taken one of these off the MR@ and used it > somewhere else, Yep, 4 cylinder ford SOHC. > like say a rotory. From what I've read about them they > aren't to big, Good small unit. > and have a very nice blowoff valve/SC bypass system built > in. Don't know not using it. > Plus they have the electronic cultch built in the pully. Works really well.... I have a supercharger switch on the dash, for a laugh flick the switch and on comes the boost, just like Mad Max =-) > my idea is to try to use one to spool up the turbo on a > RX7, try to give it a little more low end. Thats what I'm wanting to do, sadly a lack of cash has slowed things down. Have a look at..... http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/s&t/psturbo.htm > I have the SC it self (but > none of the hoese and manifoilds from the MR2, A friend of mine made the manifolds for me, I only had the blower also. > plus I think my SC is in > need of a rebuild. (It was a gift) They are hardcore critters mine was off a race engine, it's a bit damaged but it still makes good boost. > any way... I'd like to talk to some one how knows them befor I go out and > try to find a another one with all the hoeses still there. Don't bother, it is easier in the long run to make new ones to suit as you don't have an MR2. > (plus from > what I've heard they are hard to find.) Not here in NZ. If you are interested here are my blower pics..... http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/netpics/blowen.jpg http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/netpics/wieb3.jpg http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/netpics/wieb2.jpg Cheers Simon +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@xxx.nz) Computer Engineer, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support Computing and Educational Resources LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Out of my mind. Back in five minutes. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ From: "Stowe, Ted-SEA" Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:05:27 -0800 Subject: RE: Electric fuel pressure gauge. what are the motorola fuel pressure regulation units ?? > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Conlon [SMTP:synchris@xxx.net] > Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 6:01 PM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: RE: Electric fuel pressure gauge. > > > At 12:58 PM 2/5/99 -0600, Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com wrote: > > >The new sensor is probably intrinsically > >safe rated and a transducer type (0-5 volt or 4 to 20 MA) > > That reminds me. I've just gotten some info that's making me wonder > if my fuel pump is up to snuff. I'd like to put an electric fuel > pressure transducer into the fuel line. Does anyone know where I > could get such a beast, now, at a reasonable price? The Motorola > units for returnless fuel pressure regulation looked great, and > that's where I think I'm headed eventually, but I need to get > something asap just for this diagnostic purpose. > > TIA, > Chris C. > > p.s. "reasonable price" is $50 or less for the transducer itself. ------------------------------ From: steve ravet Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 22:07:21 +0000 Subject: Re: Plugs for flare fittings? Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com wrote: > > When I plugged the holes on my 82 T/A I used regular pipe plugs. The brass > will work also the just turn colors. The T/A > had a hole on each cylinder, does your have the one big hole on the front of > the exhaust manifold ? I believe the plugs are > 1/4 or 5/16 NPT. Don I've got one hole/port. I thought it looked like flare, but I haven't had it apart yet. NPT will be easier to find if that's what it is. Thanks for the help - --steve - -- Steve Ravet ARM, INC steve.ravet@xxx.com www.arm.com ------------------------------ From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 23:41:16 -0500 Subject: Re: fusible link questions Jim Davies wrote: > > On Thu, 4 Feb 1999 AL8001@xxx.com wrote: > > > > > A alternator is current limited by the size of the stator windings and , to a > > lesser extent, the size of the rotor ( field ) windings. > > > And by the max amperage to the rotor. The only difference between a 55 and 60 amp alternator in most cases is the amount of copper in the rotor. The "upgrade " kits that were available for both Delcotron and Chryco alternators a few years back were just heavier rotors. The stators and diodes, as well as the regulators, remained the same. Alternator power output is determined entirely by field current up to the point where the stator windings overheat or the diodes let go. This power would cause voltage to go sky high if not controlled either by load (ohm's law) or a voltage sensing regulator. This regulator can control output by varying the field current or by turning it off and on. The cruder systems work by providing full, half, or no feild current, switching between them. The more sophisticated use a PWM type system, varying either the frequency or pulse width to adjust duty cycle. A very few alternator systems used current regulators like a DC generator used. Among them was the Leece Neville of the seventies. Some GM and Chryco units used 2 unit regulators, but the second unit in their case was a field relay. ------------------------------ From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 23:45:56 -0500 Subject: Re: fusible link questions Raymond C Drouillard wrote: > > On Thu, 04 Feb 1999 20:29:48 -0500 "David A. Cooley" > writes: > >At 05:56 PM 2/4/99 -0700, you wrote: > >> > >>OK--so who's gonna be the first to suggest building a device to limit > the > >>charging rate of the battery (and to correct charging voltage (to the > >>battery only) for battery temperature, while we're at it?? > > > >Chrysler! > > > >On my 95 neon there was a battery temp sensor and the PCM controlled the > >alternator. > >Charging voltage varied with temp. > > The alternater in my '89 Jeep Grand Wagoneer senses the ambient > temperature and adjusts the voltage accordingly. I'm not sure when Jeep > started using that design. > > I believe that the newer batteries are more tolerant of high charging > current. That may be why the electronic regulaters don't bother limiting > output current. I suspect that the main reason is that the accessories > in a modern car draw so much current. > > Ray > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Temperature compensation of voltage regulators has been a fact of life for at least 30 years.Even many of the old mechanical regulators on DC generators were temperature compensated. This was accomplished by using a bi-metal armature hinge on the voltage regulator unit. ------------------------------ From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 00:00:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Plugs for flare fittings? BUTLER, Tom wrote: > > JB Weld perhaps? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: steve ravet [SMTP:steve.ravet@xxx.com] > > Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 6:00 AM > > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > Subject: Plugs for flare fittings? > > > > If I wanted to remove the AIR pump on my V8 S-10 conversion, then I'd > > have to find some flare plugs to plug the holes in the exhaust manifold > > where the AIR connects, right? Any suggestions on where to find > > something like that? I've called plumbing and A/C suppliers in my area > > and can't come up with anything. A few places told me that if they had > > them, they'd only be in brass. If I can find brass ones, would they > > work? The manifold is cast iron and the AIR tubes are stainless. Will > > brass take the heat cycling and temps? > > > > I know I could replace the manifold also, but I'd rather just plug the > > one I have. > > > > thanks, > > --steve > > > > > > -- > > Steve Ravet > > ARM, INC > > steve.ravet@xxx.com > > www.arm.com Cut the fittings off the current AIR tubes and thread them to take a pipe plug or a bolt.On some models you have to cut the pipe off, leaving the stub in the nut and thread the pipe. I've done it both ways. ------------------------------ From: "Robert W. Hughes" Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 23:07:43 -0600 Subject: re: Plugs for flare fittings? Before you rush out and buy pipe plugs you might want to check this: All of the GM AIR systems I have seen use 1/4inch inverted flare fittings on the exhaust manifold. Steel plugs like this are not too hard to find. If the tube that goes to the manifold has a flared end with a nut behind it that turns on the tubing it will probably be one of these and not a pipe thread. - -- Robert W. Hughes (Bob) BackYard Engineering Houston, Texas rwhughe@xxx.org ------------------------------ From: Raymond C Drouillard Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:43:42 -0500 Subject: Re: TORK??? On Fri, 5 Feb 1999 00:29:24 EST A70Duster@xxx.com writes: >In a message dated 2/4/1999 8:00:22 PM Mountain Standard Time, >bearbvd@xxx.net >writes: > ><< Doesn't matter what the speeds are doing, input torque, output > torque and reaction torque must sum to zero. >> > > >Or mass times ACCELERATION, which is why we are all here!!!!! > Yes, you have to include the torque due to the acceleration of the system. That torque isn't totally insignificent, but it's close. I believe that the torque due to acceleration is (d omega / dt) * mass * gyration radius. I could be wrong - I don't have a reference handy, nor did I take the time to derive it. Ray Drouillard ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ From: Raymond C Drouillard Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:18:59 -0500 Subject: Re: fusible link questions > >I was thinking more in terms of regulating the alternator to , say, a >steady 15 volts, and then cutting that down to whatever is ideal for the >battery in terms of voltage and current, based on temp, etc., for charging >it. Course, it would also be nice to have a device to step the battery >output back up, at least to critical devices, such as the ecu and >injectors, for those times when the alternator does not make a high enough >voltage for your chosen bus voltage. > >Again--dunno if I did not say it clearly, or if nobody was listening >carefully. > >Regards, Greg Jacobs Electronics makes a switching regulater to step the voltage up for whatever you want to run - like solenoids, the ECM, headlamps, etc. I had been considering a harebrain scheme similar to what you are discussing. The main purpose was to increase the current output of a standard charger, however. A switching regulater, when reducing voltage, will increase the current (much like a transformer). My idea is to max out the field coil on a standard alternater, which will produce a high output voltage (> 100 V). The alternater can still supply its rated current at the higher voltage because the current is limited mostly by I2R losses. If you use a 70A alternater and the output voltage goes up to 140 volts, you can use a switching regulater to step that down to 14 volts at 700 A. Of course, some heavy duty components will have to be used. This would be a tremendous help when running a winch and a bunch of off-road lights. Under normal conditions, the alternater would be more efficient (they generally run around 60%) because the voltage dropped by the diodes would be a smaller fraction of the output voltage. In a standard alternater, the current goes through two diodes (it uses a six diode three-phase bridge) with a drop of around two volts each. That means that the stator coils are supplying 18 V and 4 V is being dropped by the diodes. If the alternater is supplying thirty amps, it is supplying 30 * 14 = 420 watts. The diodes are dissapating 30 * 4 = 120 W. Even if there were no other losses, we are talking about an efficiency of about 78%. To get the same 30 amps out of the regulater, the alternater would only have to supply about three amps. This would cut the I2R losses in the stator windings, and reduce the voltage drop on the diodes to about 0.7 V. The increased efficiency of the alternater would more than make up for the losses in the regulater. There are some rubs with this scheme. First of all, actually trying to draw 700 amps will be a real challenge. Secondly, the alternater would require about 13 horespower plus efficiency losses to do this. An improved belt and pulley system would have to be used. I don't think that the current to the battery will have to be reduced under normal circumstances. If the battery gets really drained, it might be an issue. In that rare case, switching a heavy duty resister into the circuit (between the alternater and the battery, but not between the alternater and the rest of the load) would do the trick. Ray Drouillard ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 00:29:43 -0500 Subject: Re: fusible link questions Raymond C Drouillard wrote: > > > > >I was thinking more in terms of regulating the alternator to , say, a > >steady 15 volts, and then cutting that down to whatever is ideal for the > >battery in terms of voltage and current, based on temp, etc., for > charging > >it. Course, it would also be nice to have a device to step the battery > >output back up, at least to critical devices, such as the ecu and > >injectors, for those times when the alternator does not make a high > enough > >voltage for your chosen bus voltage. > > > >Again--dunno if I did not say it clearly, or if nobody was listening > >carefully. > > > >Regards, Greg > > Jacobs Electronics makes a switching regulater to step the voltage up for > whatever you want to run - like solenoids, the ECM, headlamps, etc. > > I had been considering a harebrain scheme similar to what you are > discussing. The main purpose was to increase the current output of a > standard charger, however. > > A switching regulater, when reducing voltage, will increase the current > (much like a transformer). My idea is to max out the field coil on a > standard alternater, which will produce a high output voltage (> 100 V). > The alternater can still supply its rated current at the higher voltage > because the current is limited mostly by I2R losses. Actually, the alternator is rated for maximum POWER output. 100 amps at 14 volts is 1400 watts, almost 2 HP. At an optimistic 80% efficiency, it requires closer to 2.5 HP. Pushing the same current at higher voltage quickly oveheats the alternator due to the increase in these I^2 R losses, which increase at the rate of a power of two with voltage increase - double the voltage, 4 times the heat with the same current. > > If you use a 70A alternater and the output voltage goes up to 140 volts, > you can use a switching regulater to step that down to 14 volts at 700 A. > Of course, some heavy duty components will have to be used. > > This would be a tremendous help when running a winch and a bunch of > off-road lights. Under normal conditions, the alternater would be more > efficient (they generally run around 60%) because the voltage dropped by > the diodes would be a smaller fraction of the output voltage. > > In a standard alternater, the current goes through two diodes (it uses a > six diode three-phase bridge) with a drop of around two volts each. That > means that the stator coils are supplying 18 V and 4 V is being dropped > by the diodes. If the alternater is supplying thirty amps, it is > supplying 30 * 14 = 420 watts. The diodes are dissapating 30 * 4 = 120 > W. Even if there were no other losses, we are talking about an > efficiency of about 78%. > > To get the same 30 amps out of the regulater, the alternater would only > have to supply about three amps. This would cut the I2R losses in the > stator windings, and reduce the voltage drop on the diodes to about 0.7 > V. The increased efficiency of the alternater would more than make up > for the losses in the regulater. > > There are some rubs with this scheme. First of all, actually trying to > draw 700 amps will be a real challenge. Secondly, the alternater would > require about 13 horespower plus efficiency losses to do this. An > improved belt and pulley system would have to be used. > > I don't think that the current to the battery will have to be reduced > under normal circumstances. If the battery gets really drained, it might > be an issue. In that rare case, switching a heavy duty resister into the > circuit (between the alternater and the battery, but not between the > alternater and the rest of the load) would do the trick. > > Ray Drouillard > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #93 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".