DIY_EFI Digest Tuesday, 9 February 1999 Volume 04 : Number 110 In this issue: Re: CPS for mini Re: Diagnosis steps & tools? New PWM controller circuit, rev2 Re: Parallel Port eprom programmers - suggestions RE: fusible link questions Re: CPS for mini Re: Parallel Port eprom programmers - suggestions Re: CPS for mini RE: fusible link questions Re: fusible link questions Re: Parallel Port eprom programmers - suggestions Re: Parallel Port eprom programmers - suggestions L-Jetronic Re: Parallel Port eprom programmers - suggestions Re: CPS for mini RE: L-Jetronic 727 questions. pulsing coil input Re: New guy RE: New guy Re: CPS for mini RE: New guy Re: 727 questions. Re: pulsing coil input Re: list headers Re: pulsing coil input Re: CPS for mini Re: 727 questions. Re: CPS for mini Re: 727 questions. Re: High grade connectors Re: CPS for mini Re: 727 questions. See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tom Parker" Date: 09 Feb 99 23:08:15 +1200 Subject: Re: CPS for mini Michael D. Porter wrote: >rpm. I would say that a thin bit of stainless probably won't cut it when >the clutch and/or flywheel comes apart. If it's a big clutch and >flywheel, 1/4" plate would be the minimum.... (!) The standard Mini flywheel/clutch (its all one unit) is made of cast iron, is about 10" diameter and weighs around 20lb. It's inside an alluminium housing, and there is a fairly strong bulkhead between the driver and the engine. I've seen the results of one that escaped during a race. It didn't explode, the crank sheared off where it came out of the engine block. There wasn't much left of that end of the engine. All the alloy housing was gone, but surpisingly the flywheel didn't get out of the engine bay. Aparently the flywheel itself is pritty strong but the pressure plate isn't. The pressure plate goes first and takes the rest of the clutch with it. Whatever goes first, it still makes a mess! Bending 1/4" plate around the housing will be interesting. I'll see what I can do when I have the engine out to replace the gearbox (doing that soonish). - -- Tom Parker - tparker@xxx.nz - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ ------------------------------ From: rauscher@xxx.com Date: Tue, 09 Feb 99 09:13:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Diagnosis steps & tools? For those DIY's, there's also a write-up & schematic for a stepper motor driver in the incoming directory: ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/incoming/ StepDrv1.gif StepDrv2.gif Stepdrv.txt This circuit is aimed at the GM IAC's... BobR. Bruce wrote: >On the gms, the pintle shaft rides on a little plastic insert to keep it >from spinning rather than unscrewing. It's real easy to FUBAR that >little plastic insert (been there, and have many T-Shirts to show for it) > >If you really have a need to play with it, get a Stepper Motor Controller >Kit, and slow it down, and use that to install, and remove the pintle. > >Usually a quick zap of carb cleaner is fine. If there is so much carbon in >there that that isn't enough get a new/replacement IAC. - -- ------------------------------ From: rauscher@xxx.com Date: Tue, 09 Feb 99 09:33:53 -0500 Subject: New PWM controller circuit, rev2 I had some trouble getting and keeping the second rev of the PWM motor driver circuit on the 'incoming' site: ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/incoming/ It's now back for your viewing pleasure. If you have the original copy, please update it with the newer one. An upgrade was done to the circuit, along with a better writeup. (This is the same one that was on the site for a short period of time the end of last week). New files: Pwm2.txt write-up Pwm2.gif circuit schematic Thanks, BobR. - -- ------------------------------ From: "Andrew K. Mattei" Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 09:53:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Parallel Port eprom programmers - suggestions > Are there any other > parallel port eprom programers that others have used? Well, this is the Do It Yourself list... ;) My justification is that my wife will let me "babysit" the new son, and tinker with electronics all I want, but I'd get strung up if I spent $200 on a programmer... So... I'm now rolling my own LPT port programmer. Have the hardware design, and have been flowcharting the software (Qbasic, of course!). Uses (2) 74HC4040 12-bit counter IC's (for addressing), a couple 74175's (latches for outputs), a couple 74125's (latches for inputs), a 555 (for the 50 usec programming pulse), some dip switches, and some voltage regulators. I'm building it for 128k and 256k eproms, but it's adaptable. ;) I found a design on the 'net, built it, but have had mucho problems with it. Hopefully this "adaptation" will fix those problems. Hope to have it documented in a couple weeks. I have all the parts, it's just a matter of rolling it together. And unlike others, this should work on all standard parallel ports. I plan to use an old 8088 Toshiba laptop to run it. ;) "The diskless wonder". Anyone got any 3 1/2" 720k floppies laying around? (JOKE!) FWIW, Andrew "throwing nickels around like manhole covers - urrrrgh!" M ------------------------------ From: Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 08:59:33 -0600 Subject: RE: fusible link questions I have played with the CS regulator a little bit and it is PWM like you say.It is a fixed frequency variable duty cycle regulator. The GM tech manual states the frequency of 400 HZ. Both the CS 110 and CS 130 have stator tach signal terminals labeled 'P'. A neat feature of this regulator is the sense terminal 'S'. A wire connected to the sense terminal can be placed any where in the electrical system to correct voltage drops. > -----Original Message----- > From: Clarence L.Snyder [SMTP:clare.snyder.on.ca@xxx.net] > Sent: Monday, February 08, 1999 10:18 PM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: fusible link questions > > AL8001@xxx.com wrote: > > > > In a message dated 99-02-08 19:47:19 EST, Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com writes: > > > > > I have read about a > > >Japanese Alt. that had a star and delta wound stator. The star had its > own 6 > > >diode bridge and the delta had its own 6 diode bridge. > > > > This would probably be a Mitsubishi alt. Quite common on Chrysler 2.6 K > cars > > and Vans ~81- 87. I know it has two diode bridges, but never traced out > the > > stator. > > > > As for the frequency output of a alt, some diesel engines use a freq > output to > > drive a tach. Gm CS series alts have a regulator with a freq out for > this > > purpose. By the way, CS regulator is of the PWM style. > > > > Someday in my spare time ( HA! ) I'll try to run a alt without diodes up > to > > 110V. The intended usage is for lighting and running universal motors( > brush > > type, such as electric drills). > > > > Harold > Leave the diodes in and use DC, otherwise you have to load-ballance the > 3 phase AC. ------------------------------ From: Jim Davies Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:00:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: CPS for mini On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Michael D. Porter wrote: > rpm. I would say that a thin bit of stainless probably won't cut it when > the clutch and/or flywheel comes apart. If it's a big clutch and > flywheel, 1/4" plate would be the minimum.... (!) > A 1/4 inch scattershield may work for a clutch explosion, if the workmanship is very good, especially the shape and the attachment brackets. If the flywheel disintegrates however, there is no chance it will protect you. KYAGB. ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 15:04:45 +0000 Subject: Re: Parallel Port eprom programmers - suggestions > laptop to run it. ;) "The diskless wonder". Anyone got any 3 1/2" 720k > floppies laying around? (JOKE!) Actually I do, I have many unopened boxes of blank 720K floppies in the cabinet from the days when I had an IBM PS/2 Model 25. - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.xephic.dynip.com 1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental 1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab (soon to be twin turbo 440) 2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 10:36:09 -0500 Subject: Re: CPS for mini I've had a flexplate come apart at about 4K rpm. It separated the auto trans from the engine, broke the starter, and sent a piece of starter ring gear through the floor and up through the heater box to wedge in the heater core. It takes more than pretty stainless to prevent that kind of destruction. Shannen Michael D. Porter wrote: > > Tom Parker wrote: > > > > > With an already somewhat unsafe maximum of 8000 rpm, I don't want to tempt > > > >> > > > > >Ummm...... did you ever think about making a blow sheild?? > > > > >Bill (don't wanna yell OUCH!) K > > > > Thought about it, but haven't yet. I try and avoid spinning it up that far! > > > > Anyone have any ideas on what to make it out of? I've seen one made of a sheet > > of quite thin stainless steel. > > Stainless may be pretty, but, as the old cigarette ad said, it's what's > up front that counts. When I first starting crewing on a stock car, I > pulled off the trans cover, and found a long tear in the 1/4" thick > steel bellhousing, about eight inches long, where a chunk of something > had gone through it. That car had an engine in it which was worn out, > and probably wasn't capable of reaching its potential redline of 6800 > rpm. I would say that a thin bit of stainless probably won't cut it when > the clutch and/or flywheel comes apart. If it's a big clutch and > flywheel, 1/4" plate would be the minimum.... (!) > > Cheers. ------------------------------ From: "Van Setten, Tim (AZ75)" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:00:01 -0700 Subject: RE: fusible link questions > KD6JDJ wrote: > > > [[ I am curious about how a professor has determined that automotive > >alternator diodes will have a forward voltage drop of 2 volts.]] > > The diodes in the alternator are passing 100A or more, so even a small > increase in resistance with current can produce a significant drop. > > 2V at 100A seems reasonable to me. The only way to tell is to measure it > though. > Just a note: Older alternators used silicon diodes. The newer ones use a higher efficiency type known as Schottky type. They usually have a forward drop of about .45 Volts. The GM CS style alt's are of the Schottky style. I've also been told that all of the new GM CS alt's are also using the avalanche style of diodes as well. Don't expect to get much power out of a alt. at 120 Volts at 60 HZ because there is not enough core for the stator to support the flux density. This is why they run at about 400 HZ. If you look at the output with a scope you will see that it is more of a pulsed DC than an AC waveform. An electric drill (with a universal motor using brushes) doesn't care what you feed it. It will work. If you notice any of the portable generators for 120 Volts 60 HZ, the generator section is HUGE compared to the same wattage for a car alternator at 12 Volts DC. It's the operating frequency that allows the car alt to be so small. Tim. ------------------------------ From: KD6JDJ@xxx.com Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 11:03:17 EST Subject: Re: fusible link questions Don wrote that the Delco CS alternators have a terminal that is expected to sense the voltage to which the alt. regulates. The older Delco alternators (with the internal regulators) also have this feature. The regulator has two spade terminals , marked 1 and 2 on the alternator case. The 2 terminal can be connected anywhere along the 12 volt line. Note -- the alternator cases were often embossed with both 1 2 as well as R F because some of the early units had the mechanical regulators. Connect 2 to the battery terminal to get it to charge the fastest . But, be aware that the alternator output voltage will go quite high in some cases , especially if the path from the alt. to the battery has high resistance. Connect 2 to the alt output terminal with a short lead and you will "never" produce more than the regulator set voltage. Jerry ------------------------------ From: Roger Heflin Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:05:18 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Parallel Port eprom programmers - suggestions On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Andrew K. Mattei wrote: > > Are there any other > > parallel port eprom programers that others have used? > > Well, this is the Do It Yourself list... ;) > I am lazy and those are fairly cheap and I really cannot do a better job than the ones I can buy. On reprogramming my prom I am real sure I can do a better job than the tuners, and can also do some things the tuner won't or cannot do. And I also have need to read some much larger eproms for some people I work with. > My justification is that my wife will let me "babysit" the new son, and > tinker with electronics all I want, but I'd get strung up if I spent > $200 on a programmer... So... > > I'm now rolling my own LPT port programmer. Have the hardware design, > and have been flowcharting the software (Qbasic, of course!). Uses (2) Qbasic is nice for simple tasks. > 74HC4040 12-bit counter IC's (for addressing), a couple 74175's (latches > for outputs), a couple 74125's (latches for inputs), a 555 (for the 50 > usec programming pulse), some dip switches, and some voltage regulators. > I'm building it for 128k and 256k eproms, but it's adaptable. ;) I found > a design on the 'net, built it, but have had mucho problems with it. > Hopefully this "adaptation" will fix those problems. > > Hope to have it documented in a couple weeks. I have all the parts, it's > just a matter of rolling it together. And unlike others, this should > work on all standard parallel ports. I plan to use an old 8088 Toshiba > laptop to run it. ;) "The diskless wonder". Anyone got any 3 1/2" 720k > floppies laying around? (JOKE!) > I was originally using a T1000 before mine broke and I had to replace it. I still have it somewhere. The parallel port programmer I found claims to work on almost any parallel port made. Roger ------------------------------ From: "Andrew K. Mattei" Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 11:26:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Parallel Port eprom programmers - suggestions Roger Heflin wrote: > > I am lazy and those are fairly cheap and I really cannot do a better > job than the ones I can buy. I understand... But, for my scenario, first baby came 2 months ago, wife left her job to take care of him, so, gotta minimize car expenses... for now... ;^D and I can't exactly spend a lot of time these days banging away on the grubby '79 Camaro in the garage while babysitting. ;) Soldering and programming while babysitting, though - that's easy! > And I also have need to read some much > larger eproms for some people I work with. Completely understandable. The design I was working from did the 32-pin EPROMs as well - but I made the decision to stick with the 28s. So, mine will go up to 512's. > > Qbasic is nice for simple tasks. Yeah, if it gets too messy, I'll go to C. Qbasic is quick and dirty, though. > The parallel port programmer I found claims to work on almost any > parallel port made. I guess it depends on how it's designed... The first one I built (off of a design on the 'net) used the bidirectional properties of the 8 data pins (at 0x378, pins 2-9 on the port). 3 out of the 4 computers I tried it on, it didn't work at all. The other one - I couldn't get two "reads" the same. Some computers don't take too well to this port being bidirectional. The way I designed this new one, I use the 5 bits on the standard LPT input port (at 0x379), and use the other 2 addresses (8 bits at 0x378 and 4 bits at 0x37A) as outputs. To me, nothing is really new here - I've done several control programs before using the LPT port. So it's really not that tough. :) If I get really industrious, I could do it in VB... But, I'm all for quick and dirty when doing things like this for myself... ;) Some places I won't skimp, but some, I will... - -Andrew ------------------------------ From: dave.johnson@xxx.com Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:43:29 +0000 Subject: L-Jetronic Does anyone have any knoeledge or information regarding the Bosch L-Jetronic systems. In particular the Lucas 4CU derivative that is found on the Rover SD1. It looks all analogue to me so far so I would appriciate some guidance if possible. Thanks in advance, Dave Johnson. ------------------------------ From: Roger Heflin Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 11:07:00 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Parallel Port eprom programmers - suggestions On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Andrew K. Mattei wrote: > > Qbasic is nice for simple tasks. > > Yeah, if it gets too messy, I'll go to C. Qbasic is quick and dirty, > though. > > > The parallel port programmer I found claims to work on almost any > > parallel port made. > > I guess it depends on how it's designed... > > The first one I built (off of a design on the 'net) used the > bidirectional properties of the 8 data pins (at 0x378, pins 2-9 on the > port). 3 out of the 4 computers I tried it on, it didn't work at all. > The other one - I couldn't get two "reads" the same. Some computers > don't take too well to this port being bidirectional. The way I designed > this new one, I use the 5 bits on the standard LPT input port (at > 0x379), and use the other 2 addresses (8 bits at 0x378 and 4 bits at > 0x37A) as outputs. To me, nothing is really new here - I've done several > control programs before using the LPT port. So it's really not that > tough. :) If I get really industrious, I could do it in VB... But, I'm > all for quick and dirty when doing things like this for myself... ;) > Some places I won't skimp, but some, I will... > I did some messing with parallel ports in the past. I believe the control pins can be used both ways (ymmv). I had it setup so that the 8 control lines (5 on one control address, 3 on another) where all used as input, and the 8 output lines were used as output, this seems to work on a standard (386sx era) parallel port. You need to switch the setup bit to make the extra 3 work as inputs, but generally if the designers of the port did not go to any extra trouble the bits will work as inputs. Then you need to use some mask instructions to make it but the bits together. I do remember that the 5+3 bits lined up in such a way that not shifting was required, just mask and or. Roger ------------------------------ From: "Michael D. Porter" Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 10:30:02 -0700 Subject: Re: CPS for mini Tom Parker wrote: > > Michael D. Porter wrote: > > >rpm. I would say that a thin bit of stainless probably won't cut it when > >the clutch and/or flywheel comes apart. If it's a big clutch and > >flywheel, 1/4" plate would be the minimum.... (!) > > The standard Mini flywheel/clutch (its all one unit) is made of cast iron, is > about 10" diameter and weighs around 20lb. It's inside an alluminium housing, > and there is a fairly strong bulkhead between the driver and the engine. I missed the first message, so, didn't realize you were referring to a Mini--a bit different problem... one which is minimized a great deal with a diaphragm clutch. The problem, as you say, is with clutch fingers coming off--and then all other hell breaking loose. Here's another possibility, which is much lighter--make one from Kevlar cloth. Easy to mold around the clutch housing, and not too expensive if you can find a source to buy it by the yard, then fold it up and sew it into a bag. Add some eyelets through the bag and the Kevlar so you can tie it onto the clutch housing. Cheers. ------------------------------ From: "Stowe, Ted-SEA" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:37:30 -0800 Subject: RE: L-Jetronic there are some good books available, one from bosch in fact, and their red/blue ? book has a lot on it as well. there is a triumph web site with some info on the Lucas system but I've never seen that much on it. Ted. > -----Original Message----- > From: dave.johnson@xxx.com > [SMTP:dave.johnson@xxx.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 8:43 AM > To: DIY_EFI@xxx.edu > Subject: L-Jetronic > > Does anyone have any knoeledge or information regarding the Bosch > L-Jetronic systems. In particular the Lucas 4CU derivative that is found > on > the Rover SD1. It looks all analogue to me so far so I would appriciate > some guidance if possible. > > Thanks in advance, > > Dave Johnson. > ------------------------------ From: Doug Mansfield Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 12:59:04 -0500 Subject: 727 questions. I would like to use a GM 727 for a custom project but hope someone may be able to answer some questions. The 727 is just an underhood version of the 730, right? So I should be able to get the MEMCAL from a 730 (four cylinder) and place into the 727? If I do the previous, how many ref pulses per revolution will the ECM expect to see? Is it one pulse per rev, or is it one pulse as each cylinder passes TDC, or 2 pulses per rev (for the four cylinder). Also, must I use the ESP module to do the A/D conversion or is there a simple way to convert it to digital? I will not be using it for spark control. Does it use IAC or a motor for idle control? What pressure does the fuel pump run at? Does anyone have the addresses for the fuel tables? It is MAP right? I noticed a pinout that showed both MAP and MAF, what is that about? Thanks for any help. Doug Mansfield mansfield@xxx.edu ------------------------------ From: Mark_Duewel@xxx.gov Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:04:27 -0800 Subject: pulsing coil input Not really EFI or automotive, but ignition control related. Trying to create a replacement for an ignitor module for a small gas turbine. What would be the easiest/cheapest way to provide a 5-10 cps 12v primary input to an automotive coil? ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:26:07 -0500 Subject: Re: New guy - -----Original Message----- From: Howard, Randolph E To: 'DIY_EFI@xxx.edu> Date: Monday, February 08, 1999 10:45 PM Subject: New guy If your doing your first heavy lifting with EFI, it is easier just to use an entire stock system, and use it for learning. You can allows complicate things once you get it running. But, getting it running the first time, can be a chore. Use all the sensors, just as the engineers designed them, and once you have some experience do some tinkering. Bruce snipped I had one lined up last week but passed on it because it did not include an AFM. I have been told that isn't such a big deal and that another AFM off a different motor probably could be made to work. Does this sound like a reasonable approach or should I steer clear of the hassle and continue looking for a complete set-up? Also, another guy said that racers in his country are able to replace the factory ECU >Randy Howard ------------------------------ From: "Howard, Randolph E" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:23:19 -0800 Subject: RE: New guy Thanks for the reply Matthew, That sounds really interesting. Is there any way I can contact your friend and find out more about his 20v and EFI? Thanks. > ---------- > From: Matthew Harding[SMTP:mharding@xxx.au] > Reply To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Sent: Monday, February 08, 1999 11:10 PM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: New guy > > At 07:34 8/02/99 -0800, you wrote: > >Hi, > >In case you thought you were the dumbest guy on the list when it came to > EFI, I am here to save you :) I am building a Lotus Seven replica and > intend to use a Toyota 4A-GE, 20 valve, if I can find a good one. I had > one lined up last week but passed on it because it did not include an AFM. > I have been told that isn't such a big deal and that another AFM off a > different motor probably could be made to work. Does this sound like a > reasonable approach or should I steer clear of the hassle and continue > looking for a complete set-up? Also, another guy said that racers in his > country are able to replace the factory ECU with an aftermarket one and run > without an AFM. What!? Is this what a MAP system does? Obviously I have > a bit to learn here so please be patient. Maybe someone can recommend some > good primer reading to help me get on board. Thanks. > > > > > >Randy Howard > >4A-GE Lotus Seven project > >"Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it - > >boldness has genius, power, and magic in it." -Goethe > > > A friend of mine runs a corolla sports sedan with a 20 valve 4A-GE... he > runs quad throttle bodies (i don't know if they are standard or not) and NO > AFM, only a MAP sensor. I think he had to run a vacuum line from more than > one of the runners to get enough of a reading, but now that it's sorted it > runs fine, there if no need whatsoever for a AFM with an aftermarket ECU. > > He is using an Injec system > ------------------------------ From: "Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:30:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: CPS for mini > Mini--a bit different problem... one which is minimized a great deal > with a diaphragm clutch. The problem, as you say, is with clutch fingers > coming off--and then all other hell breaking loose. Here's another > possibility, which is much lighter--make one from Kevlar cloth. Easy to > mold around the clutch housing, and not too expensive if you can find a > source to buy it by the yard, then fold it up and sew it into a bag. Add > some eyelets through the bag and the Kevlar so you can tie it onto the > clutch housing. beat me to this one yes Kevlar make the bag with little compartments and slip 1 or 2" x 1/4" steel slats into the pockets this will help spread out the force and keep sharp edges from passing though the kevlar and is eaiser to make than a 1/4 steel cone to cover the BH Clive ------------------------------ From: "Howard, Randolph E" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:28:01 -0800 Subject: RE: New guy Thanks for the reply Steve. > ---------- > From: steve ravet[SMTP:steve.ravet@xxx.com] > Reply To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Sent: Monday, February 08, 1999 2:19 PM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: New guy > > > > "Howard, Randolph E" wrote: > > > > Hi, > > In case you thought you were the dumbest guy on the list when it came to EFI, I am here to save you :) I am building a Lotus Seven replica and intend to use a Toyota 4A-GE, 20 valve, if I can find a good one. I had one lined up last week but passed on it because it did not include an AFM. I have been told that isn't > Don't know much about Toyota AFMs, but that seems like a small point if > it was a good deal otherwise. Surely that AFM is available in junkyards > or at the dealer? I wouldn't try to adapt another unless you know for > sure it works and for some reason you can't get another stock one. > > >such a big deal and that another AFM off a different motor probably could be made to work. Does this sound like a reasonable approach or should I steer clear of the hassle and continue looking for a complete set-up? Also, another guy said that racers in his country are able to replace the factory ECU with an aftermarket one and run without an AFM. What!? Is this what a MAP system does? Obviously I > MAP does away with the need for a flow meter, although it means "hard > coding" your volumetric efficiency in a table. A worthwile tradeoff > according to what a lot of people here say. There are plenty of > aftermarket systems available but they all seem pretty pricey. Nothing > like sticking with factory stuff if you have the time to make it work. > > have a bit to learn here so please be patient. Maybe someone can > recommend some good primer reading to help me get on board. Thanks. > > Start with the DIY_EFI archives, you can get there from the main diy_efi > page, efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/diy_efi. Also check out the reference > list, lots of good books listed. > > welcome aboard, have fun. > > --steve > > > -- > Steve Ravet > ARM, INC > steve.ravet@xxx.com > www.arm.com > ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:31:47 -0500 Subject: Re: 727 questions. - -----Original Message----- From: Doug Mansfield To: Do-it-Yourself Fuel Injection Mailing List Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 1:08 PM Subject: 727 questions. >I would like to use a GM 727 for a custom project but hope someone may be >able to answer some questions. > >The 727 is just an underhood version of the 730, right? So I should be >able to get the MEMCAL from a 730 (four cylinder) and place into the 727? Yep. > >If I do the previous, how many ref pulses per revolution will the ECM >expect to see? Is it one pulse per rev, or is it one pulse as each >cylinder passes TDC, or 2 pulses per rev (for the four cylinder). 2 per revolution Also, >must I use the ESP module to do the A/D conversion or is there a simple way >to convert it to digital? I will not be using it for spark control. I have no idea what a ESP module is. > >Does it use IAC or a motor for idle control? IAC is a stepper motor (gm). > >What pressure does the fuel pump run at? TBI about 12, TPI about 38 > >Does anyone have the addresses for the fuel tables? They vary. The location of the tables for a v-8 730 won't be the same for a 4 cyl.. > >It is MAP right? I noticed a pinout that showed both MAP and MAF, what is >that about? 730's have been used as either MAP, or MAF.. Bruce > >Thanks for any help. >Doug Mansfield ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:36:02 -0500 Subject: Re: pulsing coil input - -----Original Message----- From: Mark_Duewel@xxx.gov> To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 1:25 PM Subject: pulsing coil input I'd get a gm ignition module, for firing the coil, and then use a 555 firing a LED {with resistor} (to get 1.8v) across the pickup coils connections. Cheap+ Reliable. Bruce >Not really EFI or automotive, but ignition control related. >Trying to create a replacement for an ignitor module for a small gas turbine. >What would be the easiest/cheapest way to provide a 5-10 cps 12v primary input >to an automotive coil? ------------------------------ From: "Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:37:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: list headers simple solution configure the software to put Fanglers: in the subject field several lists I am on do similar Clive ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 18:34:29 +0000 Subject: Re: pulsing coil input > Trying to create a replacement for an ignitor module for a small gas turbine. > What would be the easiest/cheapest way to provide a 5-10 cps 12v primary input > to an automotive coil? I would suggest a 555 timer, driving a mosfet or large bi-polar transistor. Just make sure you put a diode across the oil facing the wrong way to act as protection device against back-EMF introduced into the transistor by the coil upon magnetic field collapse :) - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.xephic.dynip.com 1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental 1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab (soon to be twin turbo 440) 2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:45:40 -0500 Subject: Re: CPS for mini - -----Original Message----- From: Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020 To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 1:38 PM Subject: Re: CPS for mini For an example of what to do, see if a local speed shop has a automatic tranny scatter blanket. Bruce > >> Mini--a bit different problem... one which is minimized a great deal >> with a diaphragm clutch. The problem, as you say, is with clutch fingers >> coming off--and then all other hell breaking loose. Here's another >> possibility, which is much lighter--make one from Kevlar cloth. Easy to >> mold around the clutch housing, and not too expensive if you can find a >> source to buy it by the yard, then fold it up and sew it into a bag. Add >> some eyelets through the bag and the Kevlar so you can tie it onto the >> clutch housing. > >beat me to this one >yes Kevlar >make the bag with little compartments and slip 1 or 2" x 1/4" steel slats into >the pockets >this will help spread out the force and keep sharp edges from passing though >the kevlar >and is eaiser to make than a 1/4 steel cone to cover the BH > >Clive > ------------------------------ From: Doug Mansfield Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 14:20:03 -0500 Subject: Re: 727 questions. >> must I use the ESP module to do the A/D conversion or is there a simple >> way to convert it to digital? I will not be using it for spark control. > > I have no idea what a ESP module is. Sorry, that should be ESC (electronic spark control). >> Does it use IAC or a motor for idle control? > > IAC is a stepper motor (gm). Do other makers use solinoids? >> It is MAP right? I noticed a pinout that showed both MAP and MAF, what >> is that about? > 730's have been used as either MAP, or MAF.. So I should just check the vehicle it is taken from, or is it that they can be used for either? Thanks again. Doug ------------------------------ From: Pat Ford Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:30:05 -0500 Subject: Re: CPS for mini On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Jim Davies wrote: > Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:00:53 -0800 (PST) > From: Jim Davies > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: CPS for mini > > > > On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Michael D. Porter wrote: > > > rpm. I would say that a thin bit of stainless probably won't cut it when > > the clutch and/or flywheel comes apart. If it's a big clutch and > > flywheel, 1/4" plate would be the minimum.... (!) > > > A 1/4 inch scattershield may work for a clutch explosion, if the > workmanship is very good, especially the shape and the attachment > brackets. If the flywheel disintegrates however, there is no chance it > will protect you. KYAGB. > I'd be temped to use 1/2" aluminium. it isn't as tough as steel but wouldn't the chunks of flywheel tend to embed themselves rather then bouncing around ( and it's light ) Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:44:58 -0500 Subject: Re: 727 questions. - -----Original Message----- From: Doug Mansfield To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 2:33 PM Subject: Re: 727 questions. >Sorry, that should be ESC (electronic spark control). 730/727 doesn't use a ESC Module, the knock sensor filtering is on the memcal. (Removable calibration part). > >>> Does it use IAC or a motor for idle control? >> >> IAC is a stepper motor (gm). > >Do other makers use solinoids? Fords, I don't know the specifics on them. > >>> It is MAP right? I noticed a pinout that showed both MAP and MAF, what >>> is that about? >> 730's have been used as either MAP, or MAF.. > >So I should just check the vehicle it is taken from, or is it that they can >be used for either? Depending on memcal, and wiring, either. Bruce > >Thanks again. > > >Doug > ------------------------------ From: James Weiler Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 11:58:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: High grade connectors My local auto parts store sell these GM connectors. Try Pep boys or UAP/NAPA. HTH jw On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, steve ravet wrote: > There's a place that sells GM weatherpak connectors. If you haven't > seen them it's what GM has used since the late 80s or so. Nice, and > sealed w/rubber gasket. Search in the diy_efi archives using > "weatherpack and steve and ravet" and you'll turn up the post. > > --steve > > James Montebello wrote: > > > > Can anyone point me to a mail-order (a Web store would be excellent) > > source of good weatherproof electrical connectors? I don't need think > > I need Mil-Spec or aerospace grade, but something better than the stuff > > you'd see at a typical hardware store. The car I hack on has an engine > > compartment that's pretty much open to the weather, so I need them to be > > rugged. > > > > james montebello > > -- > Steve Ravet > ARM, INC > steve.ravet@xxx.com > www.arm.com > ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:06:18 -0500 Subject: Re: CPS for mini - -----Original Message----- From: Pat Ford To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 2:39 PM Subject: Re: CPS for mini Having seen some non-contained flywheel/disc/clutch covers explosions (pardon, the incorrect term, but it's as close to an explosion, as you can imagine), I can say with certainty, there ain't no rules about how they leave, other than with alot of force. Bruce. >> > rpm. I would say that a thin bit of stainless probably won't cut it when >> > the clutch and/or flywheel comes apart. If it's a big clutch and >> > flywheel, 1/4" plate would be the minimum.... (!) >> A 1/4 inch scattershield may work for a clutch explosion, if the >> workmanship is very good, especially the shape and the attachment >> brackets. If the flywheel disintegrates however, there is no chance it >> will protect you. KYAGB. >I'd be temped to use 1/2" aluminium. it isn't as tough as steel but >wouldn't the chunks of flywheel tend to embed themselves rather then >bouncing around ( and it's light ) ------------------------------ From: Wen Yen Chan Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:12:03 -0500 Subject: Re: 727 questions. On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Bruce Plecan wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Mansfield > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 2:33 PM > Subject: Re: 727 questions. > > > >Sorry, that should be ESC (electronic spark control). > > 730/727 doesn't use a ESC Module, the knock sensor filtering is > on the memcal. (Removable calibration part). > > > >>> Does it use IAC or a motor for idle control? > >> > >> IAC is a stepper motor (gm). > > > >Do other makers use solinoids? > > Fords, I don't know the specifics on them. > > Some Hondas do. I takes about 100 ma to crack them open and about 2/3 of an amp to fully open them. > >>> It is MAP right? I noticed a pinout that showed both MAP and MAF, what > >>> is that about? > >> 730's have been used as either MAP, or MAF.. > > > >So I should just check the vehicle it is taken from, or is it that they can > >be used for either? > > Depending on memcal, and wiring, either. > Bruce > > > >Thanks again. > > > > > >Doug > > > > ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #110 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. 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