DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, 10 February 1999 Volume 04 : Number 111 In this issue: RE: pulsing coil input Re: CPS for mini Re: CPS for mini RE: CPS for mini Re: CPS for mini Re: CPS for mini Re: CPS for mini Re: pulsing coil input Re: CPS for mini Re: High grade connectors Delco 808 ecu info needed Re: Re: Parallel Port eprom programmers - suggestions off topic search Re: BLCC5074 error codes Re: CPS for mini Re: Parallel Port eprom programmers - suggestions Re: CPS for mini Re: CPS for mini Re: CPS for mini Re: CPS for mini Re: High grade connectors Re: CPS for mini Re: CPS for mini Re: CPS for mini See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Van Setten, Tim (AZ75)" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:35:44 -0700 Subject: RE: pulsing coil input > Trying to create a replacement for an ignitor module for a small gas > turbine. > What would be the easiest/cheapest way to provide a 5-10 cps 12v primary > input > to an automotive coil? > I have already done it using a 555 and a 4-Pin GM ignition module. Email me and I'll send it to you.... Tim. ------------------------------ From: Chris Conlon Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 16:13:20 -0500 Subject: Re: CPS for mini At 10:36 AM 2/9/99 -0500, Shannen Durphey wrote: >I've had a flexplate come apart at about 4K rpm. >...[mayhem snipped]... It takes more than pretty stainless to >prevent that kind of destruction. This is probably just myth but I had always heard that the pilot in a Huey was basically sitting inside a titanium bathtub. 'Course I'm not sure how you'd get it down to the size and shape you'd need. Ah well. What do more modern choppers have? Surely there's some kind of armor there, and just maybe some of it comes surplus??? :) OTOH the kevlar idea sounds so easy. Will that really work? How much difference is there between the kevlar cloth you can easily get (alongside glass cloth and the like, for making composite body panels) and the ballistic stuff? Chris C. ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:42:49 -0500 Subject: Re: CPS for mini - -----Original Message----- From: Chris Conlon To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 4:25 PM Subject: Re: CPS for mini >This is probably just myth but I had always heard that the pilot in >a Huey was basically sitting inside a titanium bathtub. A-10 pilots I beleive are in the tube of TI. Huey Cobra guys as I recall were "Ballistic Steel". Course Habu drivers are surrounded by it (SR-71)..... 'Course I'm >not sure how you'd get it down to the size and shape you'd need. Ah >well. What do more modern choppers have? Surely there's some kind >of armor there, and just maybe some of it comes surplus??? :) I worked in a machine shop late 60's and worked with some "Armor Plate". Incrediably tough.. Never knew the end customer, but any errors wasted a tool, and the Boss went Ballistic over scrap. > >OTOH the kevlar idea sounds so easy. Will that really work? How >much difference is there between the kevlar cloth you can easily get >(alongside glass cloth and the like, for making composite body >panels) and the ballistic stuff? I'd be most inclined to use an auto tranny blanket, and just bite the bullet on ugly. Used to be an outfit in Canada that "poured a resin" Over bell housings that was SCCA legal early 70's. Mac Tilton, of Tilton Eng in CA might know if they are still around. Bruce > > Chris C. > ------------------------------ From: Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:12:55 -0600 Subject: RE: CPS for mini The 777 air planes engines (pratt & Whitney) have a kevlar belt around the engine to contain a thrown turbine blade. FFA test require that a blade be weakened so that it will fail and the kevlar belt contain it to meet certification test. Most steel scatter shields are one piece construction. > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Conlon [SMTP:synchris@xxx.net] > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 3:13 PM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: CPS for mini > > At 10:36 AM 2/9/99 -0500, Shannen Durphey wrote: > > >I've had a flexplate come apart at about 4K rpm. > >...[mayhem snipped]... It takes more than pretty stainless to > >prevent that kind of destruction. > > This is probably just myth but I had always heard that the pilot in > a Huey was basically sitting inside a titanium bathtub. 'Course I'm > not sure how you'd get it down to the size and shape you'd need. Ah > well. What do more modern choppers have? Surely there's some kind > of armor there, and just maybe some of it comes surplus??? :) > > OTOH the kevlar idea sounds so easy. Will that really work? How > much difference is there between the kevlar cloth you can easily get > (alongside glass cloth and the like, for making composite body > panels) and the ballistic stuff? > > Chris C. ------------------------------ From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 17:38:14 -0500 Subject: Re: CPS for mini Tom Parker wrote: > > Onebil2mny wrote: > > >In a message dated 2/8/1999 5:47:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, > >tparker@xxx.nz writes: > > ><< I'm a bit wary of drilling my flywheel as it has already been lightned, > >and it > > sits in front of me with only a few layers of sheetmetal between my 'nads > > and flying death should it explode. > > > > With an already somewhat unsafe maximum of 8000 rpm, I don't want to tempt > > >> > > >Ummm...... did you ever think about making a blow sheild?? > > >Bill (don't wanna yell OUCH!) K > > Thought about it, but haven't yet. I try and avoid spinning it up that far! > > Anyone have any ideas on what to make it out of? I've seen one made of a sheet > of quite thin stainless steel. > > -- > Tom Parker - tparker@xxx.nz > - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ The aluminum they make dump truck boxes out of is very strong, tough, and light. We used it for skid plates on the old Datsun 510 rally car. ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:40:56 -0700 Subject: Re: CPS for mini >Tom Parker wrote: >> >> Michael D. Porter wrote: >> >> >rpm. I would say that a thin bit of stainless probably won't cut it when >> >the clutch and/or flywheel comes apart. If it's a big clutch and >> >flywheel, 1/4" plate would be the minimum.... (!) >> >> The standard Mini flywheel/clutch (its all one unit) is made of cast iron, is >> about 10" diameter and weighs around 20lb. It's inside an alluminium housing, >> and there is a fairly strong bulkhead between the driver and the engine. > >I missed the first message, so, didn't realize you were referring to a >Mini--a bit different problem... one which is minimized a great deal >with a diaphragm clutch. The problem, as you say, is with clutch fingers >coming off--and then all other hell breaking loose. Here's another >possibility, which is much lighter--make one from Kevlar cloth. Easy to >mold around the clutch housing, and not too expensive if you can find a >source to buy it by the yard, then fold it up and sew it into a bag. Add >some eyelets through the bag and the Kevlar so you can tie it onto the >clutch housing. > >Cheers. Don't remember who, but somebody used to make blankets out of kevlar, etc, not unlike a bullet resistant vest, which were designed to be strapped around the entire flywheel---tranny assembly (or an automatic). haven't seen or heard of them in a while, but mebbe they are still out there??Anybody?? Greg ------------------------------ From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 17:45:50 -0500 Subject: Re: CPS for mini Tom Parker wrote: > > Michael D. Porter wrote: > > >rpm. I would say that a thin bit of stainless probably won't cut it when > >the clutch and/or flywheel comes apart. If it's a big clutch and > >flywheel, 1/4" plate would be the minimum.... (!) > > The standard Mini flywheel/clutch (its all one unit) is made of cast iron, is > about 10" diameter and weighs around 20lb. It's inside an alluminium housing, > and there is a fairly strong bulkhead between the driver and the engine. > > I've seen the results of one that escaped during a race. It didn't explode, > the crank sheared off where it came out of the engine block. There wasn't much > left of that end of the engine. All the alloy housing was gone, but > surpisingly the flywheel didn't get out of the engine bay. > > Aparently the flywheel itself is pritty strong but the pressure plate isn't. > The pressure plate goes first and takes the rest of the clutch with it. > Whatever goes first, it still makes a mess! > > Bending 1/4" plate around the housing will be interesting. I'll see what I can > do when I have the engine out to replace the gearbox (doing that soonish). > > -- > Tom Parker - tparker@xxx.nz > - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ Is the flywheel still only held on by one bolt and a taper/key setup? The flywheel came off my 61 mini 850 when the lock tabs on that single bolt let go. The tranny held the flywheel in and I got home on the starter! The book says you can't remove the clutch in the car, but by cutting the head off the very botton clutch cover bolt it is possible. Been there, done that - had a LOT of fun. 214,000 miles on the critter when I sold it. ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:49:55 -0700 Subject: Re: pulsing coil input >> Trying to create a replacement for an ignitor module for a small gas turbine. >> What would be the easiest/cheapest way to provide a 5-10 cps 12v primary >>input >> to an automotive coil? > >I would suggest a 555 timer, driving a mosfet or large >bi-polar transistor. Just make sure you put a diode across >the oil facing the wrong way to act as protection device >against back-EMF introduced into the transistor by the coil >upon magnetic field collapse :) Or you might just try an igniter for a pilotless domestic gas furnace-- Greg > > > > >-- >Frederic Breitwieser >Bridgeport, CT 06606 > >http://www.xephic.dynip.com >1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental >1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV >1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab (soon to be twin turbo 440) >2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:03:39 -0500 Subject: Re: CPS for mini - -----Original Message----- From: Greg Hermann To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 5:53 PM Subject: Re: CPS for mini TCI, used to, or does Bruce >Don't remember who, but somebody used to make blankets out of kevlar, etc, >not unlike a bullet resistant vest, which were designed to be strapped >around the entire flywheel---tranny assembly (or an automatic). haven't >seen or heard of them in a while, but mebbe they are still out >there??Anybody?? > >Greg > > ------------------------------ From: Todd Israels Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 18:30:30 -0500 Subject: Re: High grade connectors At 06:47 PM 2/8/99 -0800, you wrote: > >Can anyone point me to a mail-order (a Web store would be excellent) >source of good weatherproof electrical connectors? I don't need think >I need Mil-Spec or aerospace grade, but something better than the stuff >you'd see at a typical hardware store. The car I hack on has an engine >compartment that's pretty much open to the weather, so I need them to be >rugged. > > >james montebello > > > The Amphenol Mil-Spec work well and arent insanely expensive just pricey the other solution is to go to the local boneyard and liberate some from hacked up harnesses when presented with a handfull they usualy say $5 -$10 for the lot. Use the crimp method sujested in the GM repair Manuals or solder and heatshrink with wither silicone or water proffing grease in the heatshrink before shrinking from the center out. This has worked wonders on trailer light wiering including full submersion in salt water. Ther is a thought that solder causes fatige and breakage at the solder-wire boundey and either end oit the splice thoug i have never experinced this(secure the harness well) ------------------------------ From: Steve Sassine Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:46:43 +1100 (EST) Subject: Delco 808 ecu info needed I am in need of some information on the identification of the IC's used in a declo ecu with the service No. 1227808. This ecu is used on a australian holden commodore 3.8l V6. Below shows the info I have collected so far. ECU has 65 pin memcal connector. chip No. Numbers on chip discription U8 1606958/MR8749 CPU ??? U9 45148 Delco IC U10 34988 Has ouput of MAP sensor connected to pin 18 via 18K resistor. U11 54995 Delco IC U4 034987/AD87465 connects to MAT sensor U5 44188 ???? U2 missing U7, U13, U3, U6, and U1 are mounted onto heat sink. If any one can help me or can tell me where I can obtain data sheets on these IC's please rely to me on the email address below Thankyou!! Steve n9480320@xxx.au Also I found,on this ecu, that the bolts that earth out the heat sink are not doing there job properly, ie. the heat sink was not earthed. Any ideas on what will happen in this case ?? will the ecu still work ?? ------------------------------ From: Todd Israels Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 19:12:31 -0500 Subject: Re: At 06:43 PM 2/8/99 -0700, you wrote: >Group, > >I recently joined the group and have participated in the recent CPU buy, >having just missed out on the driver, I/O group buy and am curious if there >are sufficient interest to start a new group buy for the driver, I/O and >eventually BDM parts. > >I'd consider taking on 1 the project to buy the driver parts, however, I'm >located in Canada and this would increase the end cost since 99% of the >parts (except PCB's) have to come up from the US anyway. Payment would be >is US $$. > >/Marc > May be an Idea to have a Canadian group buy as myself and several others are north of the border. I have founed that some stuff is cheaper to get in canada than to import and pay shipping and exchange(dont know how this is since in all comes from the same manufacturing plant) but the volume discounts the group gets realy helps. ------------------------------ From: Todd Israels Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 19:31:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Parallel Port eprom programmers - suggestions At 09:53 AM 2/9/99 -0500, you wrote: >> Are there any other >> parallel port eprom programers that others have used? > >Well, this is the Do It Yourself list... ;) > >My justification is that my wife will let me "babysit" the new son, and >tinker with electronics all I want, but I'd get strung up if I spent >$200 on a programmer... So... > >I'm now rolling my own LPT port programmer. Have the hardware design, >and have been flowcharting the software (Qbasic, of course!). Uses (2) >74HC4040 12-bit counter IC's (for addressing), a couple 74175's (latches >for outputs), a couple 74125's (latches for inputs), a 555 (for the 50 >usec programming pulse), some dip switches, and some voltage regulators. >I'm building it for 128k and 256k eproms, but it's adaptable. ;) I found >a design on the 'net, built it, but have had mucho problems with it. >Hopefully this "adaptation" will fix those problems. > >Hope to have it documented in a couple weeks. I have all the parts, it's >just a matter of rolling it together. And unlike others, this should >work on all standard parallel ports. I plan to use an old 8088 Toshiba >laptop to run it. ;) "The diskless wonder". Anyone got any 3 1/2" 720k >floppies laying around? (JOKE!) > >FWIW, > >Andrew "throwing nickels around like manhole covers - urrrrgh!" M > > What was the design you found on the net and its address? I am considering such a project but am at this stage just checking options and would like to learn from your experince and possibly try your completed curcuit if it is completely abandoned. Your design sounds interesting but I think I would like more flexibility in chips I can read and Write than you currently have. ------------------------------ From: Marc Piccioni Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:12:21 -0700 Subject: off topic search If anyone is located in Arizona or New Mexico I'd like to hear from them off list. Thanks /Marc begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(AP!`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`& !```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&$`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S M,BYE;F``,P`0`` M`"(```!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S,BYE;F5]E9FE 969I,S,R+F5N9RYO M:&EO+7-T871E+F5D=2<``@$+, $````G````4TU44#I$25E?149)0$5&23,S M,BY%3D`!X,`0````4```!33510`````!X` M'PP!````& ```&UP:6-C:6]N:4!A='1C86YA9&$N;F5T``,`!A"UO/\3`P`' M$$L````>``@xxx.04]2 M3D57345824-/241,24M%5$](14%21E)/351(14U/1D9,25-45$A!3DM3+TU! M4D,``@$)$ $```#U````\0```*4!``!,6D9UZ=A[U_\`"@$/`A4"J 7K`H,` M4 +R"0(`8V@*P'-E=#(W!@`&PP*#,@/%`@!P)S=&5M`H,SMP+D!Q," M@S02S!3%?0J BPC/"=D[%Y\R-34"@ <*@0VQ"V!N9S$P,Z\44 L*%%$+\F,` M0" *A>$*BVQI,S8-\ M5%6*B,A'@268@`'!Y`B"492 $`" 7,&-A$] N9!^0 M`Z '$7H"(&$@PP6Q!\)-97AI!: >\%8G(# =P&L?@'0AP&B^90K!`U(B8"*@ M(R!O#= K(A$3P"XFBB25+X!0 `(,* >FBB25+X!'@`]``$````!```` &`````/.. ` end ------------------------------ From: trinity@xxx.net (Mike) Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 20:12:44 -0500 Subject: Re: BLCC5074 error codes Ross Myers wrote: >Mike, > >I finally dug up the error code info for you. > >17 - ECU processor failure (CTS circuit). >19 - TPS Stuck. >26 - MAT sensor voltage unstable. >27 - Not Listed. >36 - Vac Leak. >46 - No Ref pulses whilst cranking. >56 - Running Lean Under Load. >57 - Injector voltage fault. >66 - Not listed >72 - Not listed > >The not listed codes maybe Trans codes (Which my book didn't cover). Thanks Ross. That should help clear up a few things. - -- Mike ------------------------------ From: Tom Sharpe Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 20:07:03 -0600 Subject: Re: CPS for mini Modern scatter shields are hydro-formed 1/4" steel and it's not the hardware store variety. They also use a 1/4" block plate to fasten it to the motor Thansmission blankets are kevlar, are heavy, collect oil, and need to be fastened to everythink to work correctly. Did I mention that they were heavy. I have one for $50 -- you pay the shipping. Also, they won't really contain a flywheel explosion, just spread out the damage. I have seen an old piece of conveyor belt with steel plies across the top and bolted to the frame. The pressure plate came off and bounced around destroying the bell housing before blowing a bushel basket sized hole in the asphalt.... The belt seemed to make it go down.. The car went up about a foot. No real dammage to the car though... Regards Tom Tom Parker wrote: > ><< I'm a bit wary of drilling my flywheel as it has already been lightned, > >and it > > sits in front of me with only a few layers of sheetmetal between my 'nads > > and flying death should it explode. > > > > With an already somewhat unsafe maximum of 8000 rpm, I don't want to tempt > > >> > > >Ummm...... did you ever think about making a blow sheild?? > > >Bill (don't wanna yell OUCH!) K > > Thought about it, but haven't yet. I try and avoid spinning it up that far! > > Anyone have any ideas on what to make it out of? I've seen one made of a sheet > of quite thin stainless steel. > > -- > Tom Parker - tparker@xxx.nz > - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ ------------------------------ From: "Andrew K. Mattei" Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 21:28:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Parallel Port eprom programmers - suggestions Todd Israels wrote: > > > What was the design you found on the net and its address? I am > considering such a project but am at this stage just checking options and > would like to learn from your experince and possibly try your completed > curcuit if it is completely abandoned. > Your design sounds interesting but I think I would like more flexibility > in chips I can read and Write than you currently have. I built this one: http://zws.com/products/epromr2/index.html It's actually a pretty cool setup. "Supposed to" program EPROMs from small (16's) to big (1M+). He uses a 32 pin socket. In my testing, the device worked, but I could not get the same binary file twice out of the thing. I'd plug in a chip, read it, then read it again, and read it again, and all 3 files would be different. I found that using 74HC4040 counter IC's worked better than plain CMOS 4040's, but it still wasn't good enough. I had a ribbon cable about a foot long (not too much RF noise there), and a decent 5V power supply, checked/rechecked/rechecked my wiring, and compared data files, and "concluded" ;) that the clocking of the 4040's was throwing things off. And, I was seeing strange data errors. I attribute the data errors to the bidirectional port, and the clock runout was uncontrolled. Even if I used the "slow down" option in the software, it wouldn't provide repeatable results. So, I started thinking about designing my own - based on similar principles, but with feedback for the clock (basically, checking the lowest clock bit for an odd or even number - so, if the clock ran fast, the software would catch it), and ditching the bidirectional port in lieu of the true inputs and outputs of the parallel port. Means the use of multiplexing the bits, which complicates the software slightly, but "should" provide my desired accuracy. The design I'm working on could do the 1M+ 32 pin EPROMs - but right now, I don't need them ;) The extended addresses are no problem (just let the clock keep going), and the programming pins would just require the creative use of dip switches (as demonstrated in the design I referenced at the above web page). However, my needs are for 64, 128, and 256 right away, and probably 512 in the future. Who knows... Maybe I'll just adapt the board I've already done and put my "new" parts on it. And leave it at 32 pins... ;) Have fun. :) That's what it's all about anyway... - -Andrew ------------------------------ From: "Michael D. Porter" Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 21:10:43 -0700 Subject: Re: CPS for mini Pat Ford wrote: > > On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Jim Davies wrote: > > > Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:00:53 -0800 (PST) > > From: Jim Davies > > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > Subject: Re: CPS for mini > > > > > > > > On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Michael D. Porter wrote: > > > > > rpm. I would say that a thin bit of stainless probably won't cut it when > > > the clutch and/or flywheel comes apart. If it's a big clutch and > > > flywheel, 1/4" plate would be the minimum.... (!) > > > > > A 1/4 inch scattershield may work for a clutch explosion, if the > > workmanship is very good, especially the shape and the attachment > > brackets. If the flywheel disintegrates however, there is no chance it > > will protect you. KYAGB. > > > I'd be temped to use 1/2" aluminium. it isn't as tough as steel but > wouldn't the chunks of flywheel tend to embed themselves rather then > bouncing around ( and it's light ) Hmmm, if the pieces just bounce around inside, then that's okay--it's when they get _outside_ that the fun starts. Maybe 1/2" aluminum might be enough, or the pieces might just go right through it, anyway... after all the Bradley fighting vehicle is plated in 1" aluminum armor, and armor-piercing shells go through that like crap through a goose.... That's why they have that _very_ expensive Hughes Santa Barbara dual-spectrum fire suppression system. (!) I do think the previous suggestion about little platelets inside the Kevlar blanket is an interesting idea.... Cheers. ------------------------------ From: "Michael D. Porter" Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 21:13:58 -0700 Subject: Re: CPS for mini Bruce Plecan wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pat Ford > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 2:39 PM > Subject: Re: CPS for mini > > Having seen some non-contained flywheel/disc/clutch covers explosions > (pardon, > the incorrect term, but it's as close to an explosion, as you can imagine), > I can say with certainty, there ain't no rules about how they leave, other > than with alot > of force. Hmmm--sure sounds like a bomb off inside, doesn't it? (Never happened to me personally, but everyone I've talked to that it has used the word, "explosion." ) Cheers. ------------------------------ From: "Michael D. Porter" Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 21:32:00 -0700 Subject: Re: CPS for mini Chris Conlon wrote: > This is probably just myth but I had always heard that the pilot in > a Huey was basically sitting inside a titanium bathtub. Don't think it was a bit of good when the rockets came through the front glass.... > 'Course I'm > not sure how you'd get it down to the size and shape you'd need. Ah > well. What do more modern choppers have? Surely there's some kind > of armor there, and just maybe some of it comes surplus??? :) > > OTOH the kevlar idea sounds so easy. Will that really work? How > much difference is there between the kevlar cloth you can easily get > (alongside glass cloth and the like, for making composite body > panels) and the ballistic stuff? Just guessing here, but I think it is dependent upon how dense the weave and how many layers are compressed into the flak jacket cloth, and the orientation of the weave. The ability of a slug to penetrate the jacket would still be about what a fragment from a clutch would be, so the general recommedation would be to have a number of layers, with the orientation of the layers at 45 degrees to each other, and a very finely woven material. Cheers. ------------------------------ From: Raymond C Drouillard Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 23:40:37 -0500 Subject: Re: CPS for mini Summit sells a bell housing that is rated to contain flywheel explosions at high (racing engine) RPMs. On Tue, 09 Feb 1999 10:36:09 -0500 Shannen Durphey writes: >I've had a flexplate come apart at about 4K rpm. It separated the >auto trans from the engine, broke the starter, and sent a piece of >starter ring gear through the floor and up through the heater box to >wedge in the heater core. It takes more than pretty stainless to >prevent that kind of destruction. >Shannen ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ From: "Michael D. Porter" Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 23:48:17 -0700 Subject: Re: High grade connectors Todd Israels wrote: > > At 06:47 PM 2/8/99 -0800, you wrote: > > > >Can anyone point me to a mail-order (a Web store would be excellent) > >source of good weatherproof electrical connectors? I don't need think > >I need Mil-Spec or aerospace grade, but something better than the stuff > >you'd see at a typical hardware store. The car I hack on has an engine > >compartment that's pretty much open to the weather, so I need them to be > >rugged. > > > > > >james montebello > > > > > > > The Amphenol Mil-Spec work well and arent insanely expensive just pricey > the other solution is to go to the local boneyard and liberate some from Just for reference, we have had terrible experiences with AMP connectors in heavy-duty, commercial use. They are universally despised by our customers, but continue to be spec'd, all out of proportion to their value, by our engineers because the costs are not high. Even with additional locks, the connectors do not remain together in high-vibration environments. They are not a recommended item in our service department. Cheers. ------------------------------ From: "Michael D. Porter" Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 23:59:53 -0700 Subject: Re: CPS for mini Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com wrote: > > The 777 air planes engines (pratt & Whitney) have a kevlar belt around the > engine to contain a thrown turbine blade. FFA test > require that a blade be weakened so that it will fail and the kevlar belt > contain it to meet certification test. Most steel scatter shields > are one piece construction. I saw some of this on a PBS series devoted to the development of the 777... quite an amazing bit of film, especially the actual slow-motion video of the fan jet blades coming apart, and being contained by the Kevlar belt, which did happen. The Kevlar surround effectively contained some very large pieces traveling at _very_ high rotational speeds. One proviso (since I have used Kevlar material in other applications)--the fibers are frayed easily from abrasion, and lose strength because of that. If they are well-restrained, the material is _very_ tough. Cheers. ------------------------------ From: "Tom Parker" Date: 10 Feb 99 22:36:31 +1200 Subject: Re: CPS for mini Michael D. Porter wrote: >Tom Parker wrote: >> The standard Mini flywheel/clutch (its all one unit) is made of cast iron, >> is about 10" diameter and weighs around 20lb. It's inside an alluminium >> housing, and there is a fairly strong bulkhead between the driver and the >> engine. >I missed the first message, so, didn't realize you were referring to a >Mini--a bit different problem... one which is minimized a great deal >with a diaphragm clutch. The problem, as you say, is with clutch fingers >coming off--and then all other hell breaking loose. Ok, I've never seen the insides of the clutch/flywheel of any car except a mini. I can't see how a clutch could explode without the flywheel being in on the action. Are there clutch designs where the flywheel is not used as a face for the friction material? As I understand it, the weakness of the mini clutch is the pressure plate. The pressure plate is like a big donut, and has "legs" at right angles to the plane of the friction material. The pressure plate sits behind the flywheel, with the legs going through holes in the flywheel and the friction material sandwiched between. A huge spring pulls the pressure plate towards the flywheel to clamp the friction material. There is a picture of it fully assembled and on the engine on my web page, in the mini section, titled "A useful modification to the SP puller" It is the legs at right angles on the pressure plate that make it weak. These legs set up big forces inside the pressure plate as they try and twist under centrpetal forces. >Here's another >possibility, which is much lighter--make one from Kevlar cloth. Easy to >mold around the clutch housing, and not too expensive if you can find a >source to buy it by the yard, then fold it up and sew it into a bag. Add >some eyelets through the bag and the Kevlar so you can tie it onto the >clutch housing. Very interesting. It would be strongest if you made it into a complete loop around the bellhousing, so you wouldn't have to tie it down so much. Or maybe you would... Hmm... If the flywheel does go, it is likely to slice the alloy bellhousing in half leaving a kevlar loop with high speed iron and alluminium fragments inside it... Then it wouldn't matter if it enclosed the bellhousing as there wouldn't be any bellhousing left :-/ - -- Tom Parker - tparker@xxx.nz - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ ------------------------------ From: "Tom Parker" Date: 10 Feb 99 22:43:01 +1200 Subject: Re: CPS for mini Clarence L.Snyder wrote: >> I've seen the results of one that escaped during a race. It didn't explode, >> the crank sheared off where it came out of the engine block. There wasn't >> much left of that end of the engine. All the alloy housing was gone, but >> surpisingly the flywheel didn't get out of the engine bay. >Is the flywheel still only held on by one bolt and a taper/key setup? Yup, hasn't changed in 40 years. If properly assembled, there is no way it will come off. The morse taper used is excedingly difficult to seperate when you want to strip the engine. The trick is to lap the surfaces smooth, and make sure you do the bolt up tight. The video of this mini with the flywheel that came off during a race that I saw was interesting. The flywheel was sitting in a pile of debris with the end of the crank still attached. >The flywheel came off my 61 mini 850 when the lock tabs on that single >bolt let go. The tranny held the flywheel in and I got home on the >starter! Hmm... not healthy. >The book says you can't remove the clutch in the car, but by >cutting the head off the very botton clutch cover bolt it is possible. The book is wrong. On our recent trip to the Mini Nationals (500km each way), a friend of mine's flywheel came loose. It took two hours to get it all striped down and tighten up the bolt. The Clubman shape front is easier. >Been there, done that - had a LOT of fun. 214,000 miles on the critter >when I sold it. They are a brilliant little car. - -- Tom Parker - tparker@xxx.nz - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #111 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".