DIY_EFI Digest Thursday, 25 February 1999 Volume 04 : Number 132 In this issue: Re: OBD II guys Re: Saginaw fittings Re: OBD II guys Re: OBD II guys RE: Delco 808 ecu info needed Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE: Plasma Jet Ignitition Plasma Jet Ignition RE: OBD II guys Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE: Plasma Jet Ignitition RE: Covert Data Logging was--->OBD II guys Re: Burning chips Re: Plasma Jet Ignition Re: MAF meters and open-loop. RE: OBD II guys Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE: Plasma Jet Ignitition Re: Covert Data Logging was--->OBD II guys Re: OBD II guys Re: OBD II guys RE: OBD II guys Re: ZR1 even I have trouble with this one Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE: Plasma Jet Ignitition RE: Covert Data Logging was--->OBD II guys Re: OBD II guys Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE: Plasma Jet Ignitition RE: Covert Data Logging was--->OBD II guys RE: OBD II guys Re: MAF meters and open-loop See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:08:57 -0500 Subject: Re: OBD II guys Well, OK, just that was marginal in being truely EFI. Seems like gm might be doing some logging about events other than what would be diagnostics. It just seems that the only way to do something like this is having the mpu write something to eeprom, and then logging a mileage. Somehow, I just don't like the idea of a pcm tracking my behavior. While I might be doing testing at a sanctioned drag strip, having the pcm log the events in a manner that could be construed as reckless just upsets me. Bruce >Bruce if someone writes you off-list, be sure to write me, >then I'll try Dave, and Dave will write Peter, and ..oh, just >keep it on list okay? 8~) Good topic > >> Has anyone noticed an event recorder in working with the code?,, >> Something like maybe x miles since x rpm?. >> Maybe just some code that is really off the wall?. >> If so I'd like to talk with ya off list. >> Bruce nacelp@xxx.net > ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:11:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Saginaw fittings Sounds like Q.C. : ). Especially if it comes with some "mysertious" plastic clips. Just curious, it's fine to use. Looked at one yesterday, it's an AC Delco GF580 for anyone looking. Shannen steve ravet wrote: > > Shannen Durphey wrote: > > > > Are you sure those aren't quick connect fittings? One ridge on the > > fitting, about 1/4" from the end? > > Shannen > > Ummmmm..... Guess that shows how much I know about fittings. As I > recall it's a steel tube coming from both ends of the filter, with a > little bubble or ridge around the tube, about 1/4" from the end. > Assumed that was called hose barb, and the ridge was to keep the hose > clamp on. > > --steve > > > > > steve ravet wrote: > > > > > > The filter I use in my truck is from a '91 Caprice w/350. It's about > > > "fist" sized, hose barbs on each end, and a nice mounting bracket on the > > > side. Don't know a part number. > > > > > > --steve > > > > > -- > Steve Ravet > steve.ravet@xxx.com > Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. > www.arm.com ------------------------------ From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:54:15 -0500 Subject: Re: OBD II guys Bruce Plecan wrote: > > Well, OK, just that was marginal in being truely EFI. > Seems like gm might be doing some logging about events other than what would > be diagnostics. It just seems that the only way to do something like this > is having > the mpu write something to eeprom, and then logging a mileage. > Somehow, I just don't like the idea of a pcm tracking my behavior. While > I might > be doing testing at a sanctioned drag strip, having the pcm log the events > in a > manner that could be construed as reckless just upsets me. > Bruce > > >Bruce if someone writes you off-list, be sure to write me, > >then I'll try Dave, and Dave will write Peter, and ..oh, just > >keep it on list okay? 8~) Good topic > > > >> Has anyone noticed an event recorder in working with the code?,, > >> Something like maybe x miles since x rpm?. > >> Maybe just some code that is really off the wall?. > >> If so I'd like to talk with ya off list. > >> Bruce nacelp@xxx.net > > Surely there is a way to refresh the log - a necessity for true diagnostics. ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:14:27 -0500 Subject: Re: OBD II guys - -----Original Message----- From: Clarence L.Snyder To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 9:06 AM Subject: Re: OBD II guys >> Seems like gm might be doing some logging about events other than what would >> be diagnostics. >> Somehow, I just don't like the idea of a pcm tracking my behavior. While >> I might >> be doing testing at a sanctioned drag strip, having the pcm log the events >> in a >> manner that could be construed as reckless just upsets me. >> > >Surely there is a way to refresh the log - a necessity for true >diagnostics. I for one certainly hope so. Bruce > ------------------------------ From: Pat Ford Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:15:52 -0500 Subject: RE: Delco 808 ecu info needed On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Wayne Macdonald wrote: > Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 23:14:28 +1100 > From: Wayne Macdonald > To: "'diy_efi@xxx.edu'" > Subject: RE: Delco 808 ecu info needed > > Can you get the GM part 34987 from GM or do I need to find the LM9044 ?, I have tried to find an LM9044 but nobody has them !. nat semi has them and you should a able to get free samples > > Wayne > > Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:47:07 -0700 Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE: Plasma Jet Ignitition >Here in AUS they sell a device called Direct Hits, which is basically a >capacitor that attaches in between the spark plug and the spark plug wires. >They have been tested by a few magazines with varied results. Slightly >improved performance from turboed motors and ones with modded efi systems >that can take advantage of the better burn. They cost about $25 AUS each >here, but I don't have anymore info at hand. If anybody wants more info you >can email me and I will try to find out some contact details. > >Adam Jensson Please do!! Thanks! Regards, Greg ------------------------------ From: bob@xxx.com (Robert Harris) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:48:55 GMT Subject: Plasma Jet Ignition Two Parts to the Plasma Jet Ignition. First part is that the spark is developed in a small - according to patents about 1 or 2 cc - pre chamber that allows it to develop and then fire a much larger "Jet" into the main chamber. Without this pre chamber, it simply becomes a warmer ignition and loses most - if not all - its benefits. Second is pumping as much energy as possible into the plasma discharge phase. Interestingly enough, Rail Gun technology has been miniaturized for this purpose. Patent 4,487,192 references SAE Paper "Design of a Plasma Jet Ignition System for Automotive Applications" SAE 776355 of 1977. It describes the use of a 10 to 100 picofarad capacitor in parallel with an auxiliary spark gap and another firing gap - confined within a plasma chamber. To HV Ignition system | +------------------------------------+ | | v | (Auxiliary Gap) | ^ | | --------- | --------- v | ( Plug Gap ) | ^ | |---------------------------------------+ ---- -- - The auxiliary gap exists solely to increase the break over voltage by about 20KV - thus raising the normal firing voltage to about ~ 40 k. Higher break over voltage results in faster discharge into the plug and chamber. The small capacitor is initially seen by the ignition energy source as a short and as a result, all of the ignition energy is diverted into the capacitor. When the capacitor charges above the break over voltage of the combined auxiliary gap and primary plug gap, the two gaps conduct and the electrical conductance approaches infinity. The normal remaining ignition energy is dumped into the plug + all of the stored energy in the external capacitor. Since the cap is very close to the plug or built in, there is very little inductance in the circuit, so the auxiliary cap dumps extremely fast. With this design and an associated pre chamber, the inventor states that only about 100 mj is required to create the Plasma Jet - well within the reach of higher end CD ignition systems. Another patent refers to the use of a metal hydrate "pill" in the chamber to seed the Plasma with free hydrogen. Since hydrogen radicals penetrates about 5 times further into the main charge at the highest temperature, this nicely enhances the blast. Claims pill would be good for 10 million firings. Replace about once a year. Other patents refer to pumping and shaping the plasma with lasers and electromagnetic energy. Do not enter "Plasma Jet" into the IBM patent search engine if you are paranoid that 666 Pennsylvania Avenue is out to eliminate your second amendment rights and are desperately searching for a replacement for gun powder. Much of the plasma research has "details unavailable - government held rights" attached and or is associated with former star wars technology. THEY are watching your every access. You are impotent. But if everyone started looking up plasma stuff, they'd become paranoid. 1963 Ford C-600 Prison Bus Conversion "Home" 1971 Lincoln Continental 460 "Christine" 1972 "Whale" Mustang awaiting transplant 1978 Dodge Long Bed Peeek Up "Bundymobile" Habaneros - not just for breakfast anymore ------------------------------ From: "Guenther,Max" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:19:56 -0500 Subject: RE: OBD II guys I might be crazy, but if GM can open your door lock and tell where you are from a satellite, how far away can it be that they will be able to tell what your car is doing at anytime(I know sending is different from receiving, but half the technology is there, right now). I was told they are working on a way to fix your memcal from the sky(via satellite). Max >---------- >From: Bruce Plecan[SMTP:nacelp@xxx.net] >Reply To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >Sent: Thursday, February 25, 1999 9:14 AM >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >Subject: Re: OBD II guys > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Clarence L.Snyder >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> >Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 9:06 AM >Subject: Re: OBD II guys > > >>> Seems like gm might be doing some logging about events other than what >would >>> be diagnostics. >>> Somehow, I just don't like the idea of a pcm tracking my behavior. >While >>> I might >>> be doing testing at a sanctioned drag strip, having the pcm log the >events >>> in a >>> manner that could be construed as reckless just upsets me. >>> > >>Surely there is a way to refresh the log - a necessity for true >>diagnostics. > >I for one certainly hope so. >Bruce >> > > ------------------------------ From: "Xwiredtva" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:50:38 -0400 Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE: Plasma Jet Ignitition Here's a link to an independent study and then theres a link to thier web page. http://www.off-road.com/products/reviews/directhits/hits.html >>Adam Jensson > >Please do!! > >Thanks! > >Regards, Greg > > > ------------------------------ From: "Kurek, Larry" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:52:42 -0600 Subject: RE: Covert Data Logging was--->OBD II guys Nothing specific, although I beleive the proposed OBDIII specification calls for such logging. Funny thing is, this log can be combined with MPH readings....I wonder if the testing stations would see this and what they would do. Just think of when they combine GPS, data logging, and telemetry. Hell, break the speed limit and a ticket just shows up. Even worse, the top speed limiter (which the ECM already has), will be reprogrammed with the current speed limit of the road you are oon. Active speed enforcement anyone? FWIW, I know the airbag module in my 94 Z28 logs certain info at the time of deployment...i.e. seat belts being worn, speed at time of impact, etc. TTYL! Larry > > > Well, OK, just that was marginal in being truely EFI. > Seems like gm might be doing some logging about events other > than what would > be diagnostics. It just seems that the only way to do > something like this > is having > the mpu write something to eeprom, and then logging a mileage. > Somehow, I just don't like the idea of a pcm tracking my > behavior. While > I might > be doing testing at a sanctioned drag strip, having the pcm > log the events > in a > manner that could be construed as reckless just upsets me. > Bruce > > > >Bruce if someone writes you off-list, be sure to write me, > >then I'll try Dave, and Dave will write Peter, and ..oh, just > >keep it on list okay? 8~) Good topic > > > >> Has anyone noticed an event recorder in working with the code?,, > >> Something like maybe x miles since x rpm?. > >> Maybe just some code that is really off the wall?. > >> If so I'd like to talk with ya off list. > >> Bruce nacelp@xxx.net > > > ------------------------------ From: steve ravet Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:56:45 -0600 Subject: Re: Burning chips Tony Garcia wrote: > > Hi everyone I am new to the list so be gental with me.I have a buick gn > and I`m interested in trying to burn chips for myself.How do I get > started like software,chipburner etc.Any info would be helpful. > Thank you Tony Garcia Tony, have a look at the WWW page under "OEM systems" for "tuning tips" and "programming 101". There's lotsa information about what's in the chip and how to modify it, although it doesn't apply directly to GNs. As far as hardware, I see needhams highly recommended all the time on this list, although I don't own one. - --steve - -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@xxx.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com ------------------------------ From: steve ravet Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:06:02 -0600 Subject: Re: Plasma Jet Ignition Robert Harris wrote: > > Two Parts to the Plasma Jet Ignition. I'm fascinated by this plasma jet ignition idea. But, I'm not sure what the difference is between what is described below and a typical CD ignition, except perhaps the energies involved, and the pre-chamber. Is that pretty much "it"? - --steve > > First part is that the spark is developed in a small - according to patents > about 1 or 2 cc - pre chamber that allows it to develop and then fire a much > larger "Jet" into the main chamber. Without this pre chamber, it simply > becomes a warmer ignition and loses most - if not all - its benefits. > > Second is pumping as much energy as possible into the plasma discharge phase. > > Interestingly enough, Rail Gun technology has been miniaturized for this > purpose. > > Patent 4,487,192 references SAE Paper "Design of a Plasma Jet Ignition System > for Automotive Applications" SAE 776355 of 1977. It describes the use of a > 10 to 100 picofarad capacitor in parallel with an auxiliary spark gap and > another firing gap - confined within a plasma chamber. > > To HV Ignition system > | > +------------------------------------+ > | | > v | > (Auxiliary Gap) | > ^ | > | --------- > | --------- > v | > ( Plug Gap ) | > ^ | > |---------------------------------------+ > ---- > -- > - Why two gaps, and not just one big gap? Is the auxiliary gap in the chamber also, or in a plug wire or something? - -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@xxx.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com ------------------------------ From: Daniel Houlton Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:19:44 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: MAF meters and open-loop. soren wrote: > > >> Have you saturated the meter? > >> > > > >Haven't been monitoring the output of the meter, but now that > >you mention it, that very well could be it. > > Are you using the meter from your 2.6 NA or the one from the 4ZC1-T that the > turbo and stuff came off of (I am guessing here but pretty sure that's the > only turbo stuff that will fit easily on your 2.6)? The mass air meter from > the 2.0L 4CZ1-T saturates around 10 psi of boost (on a 2 liter engine in an > Impulse). Yeah the turbo is off the 4ZC1-T Impulse ('88) and I'm not using the knock sensor or the stepper motor boost controller thingie off of it either. The MAF on the Impulse is a rather small one. About 40mm dia with a smaller (~5mm?) bypass where the hot wire is. On mine, it's much larger. About 74mm i.d. with a small vertical post up through the middle that houses the hot wire. So, it has easily over 3 times the cross-sectional area. I'm surprised that the MAF can be the problem. This thing is huge for such a little engine and it's in line with the sizes of aftermarket MAFs I've seen that are intended for v8 owners upgrade to. The throttle body too, BTW, is larger as well. About 70mm I think and round instead of the smaller oval of the Impulse. > > >> Timing very retarded, due to WOT switch or knock sensor? > > >No knock sensor so it can't be that. Timing isn't retarded at all > >and I'm pretty sure that the WOT doesn't cause it to do so. I will > >need to check the manual on that one to make sure. > > The 4CZ1-T has a knock sensor on the block but it is used only for boost > control, no timing effects as far as I know. If you didn't use the TCS > solenoid and controller off the donor Impulse (still basing my reply on the > guess about the donor vehicle) the knock sensor shouldn't be an issue. The > WOT switch does not retard spark in this application. > > I just set up an additional injector to trigger under boost (right at the > pressure where it used to go lean) and WOT on my Impulse, it should allow > more boost without screwing with the MAF signal. I've considered this as well, but I'd much prefer an AIC to actually meter a measured amount of fuel based on load instead of dumping a fixed amount at a particular boost pressure. It's much easier and cheaper than an AIC though and it's not like I'd be driving on it all the time so I may end up going that way. I have had on order a couple weeks now a rising rate FPR which I hope will do the trick. thanks - --Dan ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:40:54 -0700 Subject: RE: OBD II guys >I might be crazy, but if GM can open your door lock and tell where you >are from a satellite, how far away can it be that they will be able to >tell what your car is doing at anytime(I know sending is different from >receiving, but half the technology is there, right now). I was told >they are working on a way to fix your memcal from the sky(via >satellite). >Max NO--it's all there. I know a guy with a start up who is in the middle of selling GM a bunch of the satellite pager stuff. They could page the closest cop, right in his favorite doughnut shop, whenever you misbehave, if they want to implement it! Regards, Greg ------------------------------ From: Nico Over Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:41:19 -0500 Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE: Plasma Jet Ignitition Greg, You can get info from their homepage at www.directhits.com. I ran them on my 87 4runner and noted no difference in mileage/power/starting but I am running a Jacobs ignition also. Don't know if that negates the possible benefits . So if anyone wants to try some let me know I have 4 that I'll sell cheap, Nico ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:56:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Covert Data Logging was--->OBD II guys - -----Original Message----- From: Kurek, Larry To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 11:07 AM Subject: RE: Covert Data Logging was--->OBD II guys There is already a patent on the GPS speeding transponder thing. Yes, the guy was told how many miles ago the pcm saw these events Bruce >Nothing specific, although I beleive the proposed OBDIII specification calls >for such logging. Funny thing is, this log can be combined with MPH >readings....I wonder if the testing stations would see this and what they >would do. Just think of when they combine GPS, data logging, and telemetry. >Hell, break the speed limit and a ticket just shows up. Even worse, the top >speed limiter (which the ECM already has), will be reprogrammed with the >current speed limit of the road you are oon. Active speed enforcement >anyone? > >FWIW, I know the airbag module in my 94 Z28 logs certain info at the time of >deployment...i.e. seat belts being worn, speed at time of impact, etc. > >TTYL! > >Larry > > >> >> >> Well, OK, just that was marginal in being truely EFI. >> Seems like gm might be doing some logging about events other >> than what would >> be diagnostics. It just seems that the only way to do >> something like this >> is having >> the mpu write something to eeprom, and then logging a mileage. >> Somehow, I just don't like the idea of a pcm tracking my >> behavior. While >> I might >> be doing testing at a sanctioned drag strip, having the pcm >> log the events >> in a >> manner that could be construed as reckless just upsets me. >> Bruce >> >> >> >Bruce if someone writes you off-list, be sure to write me, >> >then I'll try Dave, and Dave will write Peter, and ..oh, just >> >keep it on list okay? 8~) Good topic >> > >> >> Has anyone noticed an event recorder in working with the code?,, >> >> Something like maybe x miles since x rpm?. >> >> Maybe just some code that is really off the wall?. >> >> If so I'd like to talk with ya off list. >> >> Bruce nacelp@xxx.net >> > >> > ------------------------------ From: "Xwiredtva" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:03:53 -0400 Subject: Re: OBD II guys You mean like the northstar system? It reads the driver input vs. road vs. engine and tunes everything to work the best for you. All they need is a nice sized hard drive or something to save the info. >I might be crazy, but if GM can open your door lock and tell where you >are from a satellite, how far away can it be that they will be able to >tell what your car is doing at anytime(I know sending is different from >receiving, but half the technology is there, right now). I was told >they are working on a way to fix your memcal from the sky(via >satellite). >Max > >>---------- >>From: Bruce Plecan[SMTP:nacelp@xxx.net] >>Reply To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >>Sent: Thursday, February 25, 1999 9:14 AM >>To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >>Subject: Re: OBD II guys >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Clarence L.Snyder >>To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> >>Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 9:06 AM >>Subject: Re: OBD II guys >> >> >>>> Seems like gm might be doing some logging about events other than what >>would >>>> be diagnostics. >>>> Somehow, I just don't like the idea of a pcm tracking my behavior. >>While >>>> I might >>>> be doing testing at a sanctioned drag strip, having the pcm log the >>events >>>> in a >>>> manner that could be construed as reckless just upsets me. >>>> > >>>Surely there is a way to refresh the log - a necessity for true >>>diagnostics. >> >>I for one certainly hope so. >>Bruce >>> >> >> > ------------------------------ From: xxalexx@xxx.com Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:54:40 +0000 Subject: Re: OBD II guys > Has anyone noticed an event recorder in working with the code?,, > Something like maybe x miles since x rpm?. > Maybe just some code that is really off the wall?. > If so I'd like to talk with ya off list. > Bruce nacelp@xxx.net > I have seen no y as function of x values listed in SAE message definitions. unless manufactured defined. There is a obd2 mandated freeze frame data mode2 frame 0 which is a event recorder when a trouble code set I read a few days ago somewhere about a flight recorder system being introduced, hooked into airbag system. alex ------------------------------ From: Pat Ford Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:00:41 -0500 Subject: RE: OBD II guys On Thu, 25 Feb 1999, Guenther,Max wrote: > Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:19:56 -0500 > From: Guenther,Max > To: "'diy_efi@xxx.edu'" > Subject: RE: OBD II guys > > I might be crazy, but if GM can open your door lock and tell where you > are from a satellite, how far away can it be that they will be able to > tell what your car is doing at anytime(I know sending is different from > receiving, but half the technology is there, right now). I was told > they are working on a way to fix your memcal from the sky(via > satellite). > Max It would really SUCK if they can tell what your cars is doing, I routinely speed (~50K over). It could make GM extra money, lets say they (gm) get 1% of speeding fines.. At long last freedom from photo radar, speed traps your car could just rat you out.. I think it is possible that someone at gm has thought about this > > >---------- > >From: Bruce Plecan[SMTP:nacelp@xxx.net] > Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ From: John Hess Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 17:41:52 -0600 Subject: Re: ZR1 even I have trouble with this one Right, and _my_ L98 uses a 165! At 08:59 AM 10/7/98 -0700, peter paul fenske wrote: > >> >>>No the 7730 computer does not run the ZR1 vette, a buddy of mine here in >>town >>>has a hot rod version of one, putting out about 500 hp.....he has complete >>>leterature o it, if you need info, I can call and get it...GENE >>> >Hi all > >Me parts book shows the 727 ecm for L98 >and the 1228331 for LT5 along with a module to switch in >the extra 8 injectors.. > >I am sure both are GMP4 ecms though.. >The 727 is purported to be a repackaged 730 > >:peter > > > > ------------------------------ From: Roger Heflin Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:28:57 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE: Plasma Jet Ignitition On Thu, 25 Feb 1999, Nico Over wrote: > Greg, > You can get info from their homepage at www.directhits.com. I ran them > on my 87 4runner and noted no difference in mileage/power/starting but I > am running a Jacobs ignition also. Don't know if that negates the > possible benefits . So if anyone wants to try some let me know I have 4 > that I'll sell cheap, Nico > I looked at their web site. It is unclear to me how the device can work without a connection to ground. Do the devices you have actually make contact with part of the plug that would be ground? It did not look like to me that it did contact any grounded part. I can see how a cap would work if one side was ground (assuming the cap survives the instanteous current involved), but cannot really see if it is not grounded. I can also see how it would work if there was an active component charging up the cap. Roger ------------------------------ From: Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:32:00 -0600 Subject: RE: Covert Data Logging was--->OBD II guys One of the worst things about OBIII is that "they" will be able to shut the engine down from the sky or any other location including the car chasing you with would be robbers in it. The Cops say "they" need this to stop guys that take of in high speed chases... Ya Right. If the Feds can track you and stop you at will then it's pretty well over in the freedom dept. One World Government is upon us. > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce Plecan [SMTP:nacelp@xxx.net] > Sent: Thursday, February 25, 1999 10:57 AM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: Covert Data Logging was--->OBD II guys > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kurek, Larry > To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu' > > Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 11:07 AM > Subject: RE: Covert Data Logging was--->OBD II guys > > There is already a patent on the GPS speeding transponder thing. > Yes, the guy was told how many miles ago the pcm saw these events > Bruce > > > >Nothing specific, although I beleive the proposed OBDIII specification > calls > >for such logging. Funny thing is, this log can be combined with MPH > >readings....I wonder if the testing stations would see this and what they > >would do. Just think of when they combine GPS, data logging, and > telemetry. > >Hell, break the speed limit and a ticket just shows up. Even worse, the > top > >speed limiter (which the ECM already has), will be reprogrammed with the > >current speed limit of the road you are oon. Active speed enforcement > >anyone? > > > >FWIW, I know the airbag module in my 94 Z28 logs certain info at the time > of > >deployment...i.e. seat belts being worn, speed at time of impact, etc. > > > >TTYL! > > > >Larry > > > > > >> > >> > >> Well, OK, just that was marginal in being truely EFI. > >> Seems like gm might be doing some logging about events other > >> than what would > >> be diagnostics. It just seems that the only way to do > >> something like this > >> is having > >> the mpu write something to eeprom, and then logging a mileage. > >> Somehow, I just don't like the idea of a pcm tracking my > >> behavior. While > >> I might > >> be doing testing at a sanctioned drag strip, having the pcm > >> log the events > >> in a > >> manner that could be construed as reckless just upsets me. > >> Bruce > >> > >> > >> >Bruce if someone writes you off-list, be sure to write me, > >> >then I'll try Dave, and Dave will write Peter, and ..oh, just > >> >keep it on list okay? 8~) Good topic > >> > > >> >> Has anyone noticed an event recorder in working with the code?,, > >> >> Something like maybe x miles since x rpm?. > >> >> Maybe just some code that is really off the wall?. > >> >> If so I'd like to talk with ya off list. > >> >> Bruce nacelp@xxx.net > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:08:57 -0500 Subject: Re: OBD II guys V2 T919936933 K919937114 N1 P32141 I0/245/181462 MDeferred: Connection timed out with hume.neobright.net. Fb $rESMTP $sspot.Colorado.EDU $_spot.Colorado.EDU [128.138.129.2] S C: RPFD:jclarke@xxx.net H?P?Return-Path: HReceived: from spot.Colorado.EDU (spot.Colorado.EDU [128.138.129.2]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with ESMTP id FAA07436 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 05:02:13 -0500 (EST) HReceived: (from daemon@localhost) by spot.Colorado.EDU (8.9.0/8.9.0/ITS-5.0/bigseven) id BAA28020 for cisco-ml4; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 01:24:58 -0700 (MST) HReceived: from frog.east.ru (root@xxx.133]) by spot.Colorado.EDU (8.9.0/8.9.0/ITS-5.0/bigseven) with ESMTP id BAA26806 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 01:18:21 -0700 (MST) HReceived: from sentry.east.ru (dol@xxx.r ------------------------------ From: "Xwiredtva" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:57:43 -0400 Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE: Plasma Jet Ignitition I just got mine today. There is a star washer that touches the socket part of the plug. You take the nipple off the spark plug and it screws on it that way. Seems like it may work loose but will see. > >I looked at their web site. It is unclear to me how the device can >work without a connection to ground. Do the devices you have actually >make contact with part of the plug that would be ground? It did not >look like to me that it did contact any grounded part. I can see >how a cap would work if one side was ground (assuming the cap survives >the instanteous current involved), but cannot really see if it is not >grounded. I can also see how it would work if there was an active >component charging up the cap. > > Roger > > ------------------------------ From: Jim Davies Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:53:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: RE: Covert Data Logging was--->OBD II guys On Thu, 25 Feb 1999, Kurek, Larry wrote: > would do. Just think of when they combine GPS, data logging, and telemetry. > Hell, break the speed limit and a ticket just shows up. Even worse, the top Apparently they already do this on european autobahns...pay a toll, drive, stop and pay a toll...minion reads the time stamp and calculates the speed. If too fast, they wave over a polizei to present a speeding ticket. ------------------------------ From: Jim Davies Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:56:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: RE: OBD II guys On Thu, 25 Feb 1999, Greg Hermann wrote: > >I might be crazy, but if GM can open your door lock and tell where you > >are from a satellite, how far away can it be that they will be able to > >tell what your car is doing at anytime(I know sending is different from > >receiving, but half the technology is there, right now). I was told > >they are working on a way to fix your memcal from the sky(via > >satellite). > >Max > > NO--it's all there. I know a guy with a start up who is in the middle of > selling GM a bunch of the satellite pager stuff. They could page the > closest cop, right in his favorite doughnut shop, whenever you misbehave, > if they want to implement it! > Miss a payment to GMAC and the cops will flag you down as you pass the donut shop... ------------------------------ From: Jason_Leone@xxx.com Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:37:11 -0800 Subject: Re: MAF meters and open-loop Dan, Looks like you had some time on your hands there. For a low buck approach, why don't you use the dual-pot method to dial in the A/F ratio w/ oversize injectors (or a high buck shelf part like: http://www.splitsec.com/products/arc1/arc1ds.htm ). Or, just use the proven Hobbs switch/cold start injector methos made famous by early A1 VW turbo kits (Callaway, etc.). I like the former method. Run 92 pump gas, and you'll be fine. Add an intercooler for piece of mind. Your engine has really low static compression to start with, and I think that's saving your ass right now (after all, you are runing 87 gas and non-intercooled w/ 7psi+ boost). <<> 4) Try lowering your boost I'd rather not. I'm not sure how I could either. It's set up do deliver full boost pressure to the wastegate actuator. I could restrict it for more boost, but how would I get lower boost? Change the actuator or hook a spring to it to help it open the wastegate?>> You asked how to lower boost. I'm assuming your turbo unit has an integral wastegate, right? External? Anyway, you can do it mechanically ($$), or electronically ($$$). The mechanical method is known as a Variablle Boost Controller (VBC), and you can make onw from common materials and off-the-shelf parts for about $15-$20. Tuners sell these for ~$50. Basically consists of some pressure tubing, check valve, etc. (most parts can be purchased at any aquarium/fish shop). The length of the hose (from wastegate to the cab) determines response time. VBCs are prone to boost spikes though (which can make life very bad for the engine, and your wallet). The electronic method is much better, but WAY more expensive. I like three units in particular. The Greddy Profec A, A'PEXi Super A-VCR, and the HKS EVC IV '98. Most employ fuzzy logic, and uses stepper motors. VERY reliable and VERY fast response time (fuzzy logic will know the calibrated boost curve, so it will open the wastegate prior to the set point as the boost rises...so the actual max boost level will match your programmed setting). Prices are between $519-$600. Ouch. A MUST for medium-high boost applications (8psi-25psi+)! Both of the above boost control methods are totally stand-alone. No factory ECU involvement. That Cyberdyne A/F gauge, that's the one w/ the LEDs going vertically (lean on the bottom, and rich on the top), right? Are you using a 4-wire EGO? I'm asuming the A/F gauge just runs switched power to the heater, ground to the heater ground, a tap to the EGO output signal, a tap to the EGO common signal, and maybe a tap to the dash light circuit? Sound right? Do you know the MV range values (giving you Lambda scale value and A/F ratio) for every LED on the A/F gauge? <> Errr, I don't like rising rate FPRs at all. Not good. They can spike the fuel pressure w/ dangerous levels. That Cartech unit is one of them. You have to have a ballpark idea of your hp output to choose the correct fuel components. Other wise, it's trial and error. 80psi system pressure is ridiculous. Way to high, even for brief periods. It's enough to blow off you little spring hose clamps at the injectors. I think the K.I.S.S. theory applies here. Or, go w/ a VW cold start injector and Hobbs switch. Old school, but it works. I did the calculations, and your factory injectors are good for about 128hp (at rated pressure, 80% duty cycle, .50 B.S.F.C.). The 24 lb/hr ones you're considering are only good for about 140hp (at rated pressure, 80% duty cycle, .55 turbo B.S.F.C.). That doesn't soleve the whole fuel supply problem, but helps. The Hitachi ECU can probably handle the change, but you'll still need more fuel at 8psi (I'm assuming the engine is making ~180hp at full boost). For 180hp, you'll need about 31 lb/hr injectors (at rated pressure, 80% duty cycle, .55 turbo B.S.F.C.). You could use 320 cc/min injectors and raise the fuel pressure a couple of psi above their rated pressure. Then dial in the A/F ratio with the dual-pot method. Viola! Ah, but we don't know what your fuel pump is capable of. You have to measure a baseline volumetric flow (timed) and measure the pump voltage. Measure system fuel pressure at the rail too. Once you know all that, the calculations can be quickly made to predict the pump flow at the new system pressure. If it's higher than the injector needs, you in the clear. If the flow is below your needs by 5%-40%, you can simply variably increase voltage to the pump until it's output is your target fuel delivery. Jason '93 SLC ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #132 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".