DIY_EFI Digest Monday, 1 March 1999 Volume 04 : Number 139 In this issue: [none] Web Page Update Re: Web Page Update Re: Electronic AFM adjustments & large injectors. Re: Newbie ALDL question ALDL project Re: ALDL project Re: EFI for Propane Re: Newbie ALDL question Re: Speed Sensor Re: Propane EFI GM IAC Re: EFI for Propane Re: ALDL project Re: ALDL project Re: Speed Sensor Re: Propane EFI Re: GM IAC Re: Speed Sensor Re: Electronic AFM adjustments & large injectors. Re: Speed Sensor Re: 730 in a buick... Re: GM IAC Re: Newbie ALDL question Re: 730 in a buick... Newbie BCC question ALDL, again RE: ALDL project RE: ALDL, again Re: EFI for Propane See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John S Gwynne Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 06:10:01 -0500 Subject: [none] Subject: [admin] List services (automated monthly post) This message is post monthly as a reminder of the available list services. For help: Send "help" to Majordomo@xxx. To post: Send to "[list name]@xxx.edu" To subscribe: Send to Majordomo@xxx.edu subscribe [list name] [your email address *only* if different than your "From" address] To unsubscribe: Send to Majordomo@xxx.edu unsubscribe [list name] [your *registered* email address if different than your "From" address] The archive to each mailing list is available through the following sources: 1) WWW. http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ 2) ftp. ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ 3) Majordomo. Send "index [list name]" to Majordomo@xxx. You will find a file "archive_date_index" whose contents show the period covered by each of the archive files "archive_num_*". Digest mode is available for each mailing list. Send "lists" to Majordomo for a listing a mailing lists served. To switch to the digest mode, unsubscribe from the regular list and then subscribe to the digest version (i.e., diy_efi-digest). WWW site (for diy_efi and efi332): http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ now mirrored at http://tech.buffalostate.edu/efi Please send information to be added to this posting to jsg@xxx. John ------------------------------ From: DC Smith Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 06:25:52 -0600 Subject: Web Page Update Finally got a couple of days off.. With my work schedule, and maintaining/building the fleet of vehicles I have in my driveway, (yes, they all run) :) I haven't had much time for email lately. Soooo.. yesterday I FINALLY got a chance to update my web page a little. I hadn't made any changes since the fall of 1997, and it was severely outdated, as far as my car goes. The main page is pretty much the same, but http://www.tetranet.net/users/morepoweral/mycar.htm now has some pretty fair pictures of my turbo V-6 Buick motor. I took the pictures last july while I was converting the car to the 86/7 Turbo Regal setup. The parts, with the exception of the 3" downpipe and 36 lb injectors, are all stock GM pieces. (this page is not for the modem impaired) I have no dbouts this car would run high 11's in this cool air, since it ran 12 teens in the 1/4 mile in 80 degree weather. The race track opens here april 4th.. :) Keep in mind, I pieced this car together, one bolt at a time. I also have a (rather large) picture someone sent me of the MAF translator used to convert the MAF signal from a Delco LT-1 MAF to work on the 7148 ECM in the 86/7 GN's and T's. This is at: http://www.tetranet.net/users/morepoweral/maftrans.htm Check it out! (this page isn't linked anywhere) BTW, with my email address change, I keep getting 2 of all the list posts. Could someone stop email from going to dcsmith@xxx.org It's been a few weeks since I unsubscribed that address. Thanks! PS. If anything doesn't work, let me know, please. *********************************************************************** Dan Smith 84 Regal 12.13@112 GSCA# 1459 St.Charles, Missouri mailto:dcsmith@xxx.net mailto:dcsmith@xxx.org mailto:morepoweral@xxx.net mailto:morepoweral@xxx.org mailto:morepoweral@xxx.net mailto:smithd@xxx.com http://www.tetranet.net/users/morepoweral *********************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:13:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Web Page Update I someone would send me a copy of this page I'd appreciate it. I can't get there from here Thanks Bruce > I also have a (rather large) picture someone sent me of the MAF >translator used to convert the MAF signal from a Delco LT-1 MAF to work >on the 7148 ECM in the 86/7 GN's and T's. This is at: >http://www.tetranet.net/users/morepoweral/maftrans.htm ------------------------------ From: Marcel Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:54:12 +0100 Subject: Re: Electronic AFM adjustments & large injectors. Clarence L.Snyder wrote: > Partly right - partly wrong. It will work as you say untill the airflow > maxes out the AFM - then it gets non-linear real fast. But, when I have this offset adjustment tool, I can adapt ANY natural log AFM to work well, including ones that flow enough! Do different capacity AFM's max out at different voltages or do they add a scaling factor to this "ln flow" formula to fit within the 0-5V range? I'd have to adjust that scaling factor too, if I want to adapt a different AFM. That might make things a bit more complicated. Anyone know at what hp level stock Toyota 4A-GE (redhat) AFM's max out? I know the injectors will at about 140-150hp, but when does the AFM? Of course if I take care of all this and publish the details with schematic, we'd have a nice universal mod package for ppl who want to retain most factory stuff (like me) and still get better mixture spread than with spring tension adjustments. thanks, Marcel ------------------------------ From: Barry Tisdale Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 09:10:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Newbie ALDL question Bill - Managed to get the ALDL interface working quite well - are you still interested in this project? I'm using a QuickBasic program to read the data - had no luck w/ GCAR. BTW, in your last letter, you referenced using "4 diodes" in the MAX232 circuit - should those be transistors (2N3904)? I used a MAX233 chip - no external caps; '04 inverter not needed. Get *lots* of data out, now just have to correlate it w/ what my scan tool reads. Any collaboration gladly accepted! Barry ------------------------------ From: Barry Tisdale Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 09:17:19 -0500 Subject: ALDL project Anyone still currently working on the ALDL / PC project, or interested in it? Got the interface put together, works great, reading the ALDL data w/ QuickBasic program - just have to work out which numbers mean what. I'm reading a '91 GM ECU (Syclone). Anyone know what data is what? I was thinking of pots or 555s on the various sensors, but maybe someone already has the answers. Thanks - Barry ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:39:43 +0000 Subject: Re: ALDL project > Anyone still currently working on the ALDL / PC project, or interested in it? I haven't worked on it in a while, it went to the way side as I'm doing up a Mopar block now, got sucked into a jeep project, and about 400 other things. I'm interested in it without a doubt. Can you send me a small sample of the data? I'd like to take a look if you don't mind... - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.xephic.dynip.com 1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental 1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab (soon to be twin turbo 440) 2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) ------------------------------ From: Pat Ford Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:54:53 -0500 Subject: Re: EFI for Propane On Fri, 26 Feb 1999, Raymond C Drouillard wrote: > Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 01:57:27 -0500 > From: Raymond C Drouillard > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: EFI for Propane > > > >....What about cooling the lpg to a point where its liquid, then we > >could use regular efi injectors, we dont have to create a box that must > >regulate injection time for the variable pressure that temperature is > doing > > > >for lpg fuel pressure.Can a Lucas disc type injector cope with the > >pressure? > >What about two injectors in series?One ontop of the other? > >I have been thinking of just pumping twostroke oil into the lpg tank > >to get a mix. > >Espen Hilde > > I was thinking of feeding the liquid into the injecter at perhaps 330 > PSI, and using something similar to a diesel injecter on the other end > that opens at 300 PSI. That way the injecter would see a 30 PSI it may be more then 300psi require to keep the propane liquid, and a pump would be needed to get the liquid to the warm end of the fuel system > difference in pressures, and be dealing with a warm liquid. The standard > injecter would be used as a valve, and the propane would vaporize once it > leaves the injecter (regulater or whatever you want to call it). > > I would rather have an injecter that can handle the 300 PSI without such > a jerry rig, though. on the way home I was thinking about this and a major problem would be vapour lock the vapour pressure of gas is less then propane just my $0.02 > Ray > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ From: Roger Heflin Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:18:14 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Newbie ALDL question On Mon, 1 Mar 1999, Barry Tisdale wrote: > Bill - > > Managed to get the ALDL interface working quite well - are you still interested in this project? I'm using a QuickBasic program to read the data - had no luck w/ GCAR. BTW, in your last letter, you referenced using "4 diodes" in the MAX232 circuit - should those be transistors (2N3904)? I used a MAX233 chip - no external caps; '04 inverter not needed. > > Get *lots* of data out, now just have to correlate it w/ what my scan tool reads. > > Any collaboration gladly accepted! > > Barry > I don't know about the syclone, but something useful, diacom appears to store the data stream exactly as it comes of the interface in their data files. I have a ALDL spec for my car, and using that spec I was able to get meaningful data out of the diacom data file. Also, there will be two bytes at the front of each data stream, that will be the prom id, it will be repeated at the beginning of each set of data, then there are typically several bytes of data that are error flags (trouble codes, usually all zeros if everything is good). There should be a spec for the syclone, someone did send me a spec for my car (93 Z28), and it does seem to be correct, because I have been able to decode meaningful data from the diacom data files (things that weren't displayed, or not displayed accurate enough). Roger ------------------------------ From: Pat Ford Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:19:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Speed Sensor On Mon, 1 Mar 1999, Benjamin Marsh wrote: > Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:41:44 +1100 (EST) > From: Benjamin Marsh > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Speed Sensor > > > The L-jet in my Soob is giving a fault code 33 which corresponds to > a speed sensor in the workshop manual - I have pulled the dash out to > try and find it. The closest thing I can find is a 3" long plastic > strip with metal tabs at each end and a thing in the middle that kinda > looks like a high voltage light bulb. Is this the speed sensor? ii so soobies tended to have the sensors in the speedo head but what you describe sounds like the reed switch sensor they used > will just replacing it fix the problem or is the speed sensor somewhere > else that I haven't looked. > > When driving at moderate load I can feel the car slightly shudder and > then the ECS light comes on - is the speed sensor at fault or is it > a sort of limp home mode thing on the comp? The car feels to go a lot > better when the ECS light is off rather than on... is the car spfi ( throttle body ) if it is check the reluctor in the distributer, they had problems there otherwise I'd look at the afm > > Car is a 1987 Leone RX Turbo dooh then it's mpfi. > Ben > Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ From: steve ravet Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 09:55:56 -0600 Subject: Re: Propane EFI "Jeffrey T. Birt" wrote: > > Yeah I've heard of people using it to replace freon. I've also heard of AC > systems BLOWING UP because of it. Try it at your own risk. Just my two-cents. We've all heard of cars blowing up because of it. Ever seen one? Besides the movies, I mean? What do you suppose was used before freon was invented? Hydrocarbons and ammonia. Does it bother you that you carry 100 pounds of gasoline with you, complete with an electric pump that can supply gallons per minute to an engine fire? Just because the EPA says it's bad, doesn't mean that it's bad. - --steve - -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@xxx.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com ------------------------------ From: Terrill Yuhas Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:11:01 -0700 (MST) Subject: GM IAC First off, I want to thank all those who helped me with suggestions on my rough idle/idle hunting problem with a GM 3.1L V6. Turns out the IAC was pretty varnished up. After a good bead blasting :-) , all was assembled and things are working much better. Of course there was a tense moment (pucker factor: 7), when while cleaning out the throttle body, I shot the cleaner straw into the intake. What's the minimum requirements for this cone-shaped-hat club again? Anyhow, my question is that the manuals I have (Haynes and the bigger Chilton's model specific guide) mention an O-ring for the IAC. I didn't find any O-ring or gasket of any sort. It was just plastic on aluminum. Should this be the case? I don't have the full story on how the IAC functions but maybe this could explain the degradation at idle when the engine is hot with the different material expansion rates. Dunno...just thinking out loud so sorry if that sounds really dumb. Thanks! Terrill ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:09:06 -0700 Subject: Re: EFI for Propane >On Fri, 26 Feb 1999, Raymond C Drouillard wrote: > >> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 01:57:27 -0500 >> From: Raymond C Drouillard >> To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >> Subject: Re: EFI for Propane >> >> >> >....What about cooling the lpg to a point where its liquid, then we >> >could use regular efi injectors, we dont have to create a box that must >> >regulate injection time for the variable pressure that temperature is >> doing >> > >> >for lpg fuel pressure.Can a Lucas disc type injector cope with the >> >pressure? >> >What about two injectors in series?One ontop of the other? >> >I have been thinking of just pumping twostroke oil into the lpg tank >> >to get a mix. >> >Espen Hilde >> >> I was thinking of feeding the liquid into the injecter at perhaps 330 >> PSI, and using something similar to a diesel injecter on the other end >> that opens at 300 PSI. That way the injecter would see a 30 PSI > >it may be more then 300psi require to keep the propane liquid, and a pump >would be needed to get the liquid to the warm end of the fuel system > >> difference in pressures, and be dealing with a warm liquid. The standard >> injecter would be used as a valve, and the propane would vaporize once it >> leaves the injecter (regulater or whatever you want to call it). Trouble is, it will begin to vaporize (flash) on its way through the injector. Greg >> >> I would rather have an injecter that can handle the 300 PSI without such >> a jerry rig, though. > >on the way home I was thinking about this and a major problem would be >vapour lock the vapour pressure of gas is less then propane > > >just my $0.02 > >> Ray >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >> > >Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com >QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com >(613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews >(613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ From: Terrill Yuhas Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:18:56 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: ALDL project I'm interested in it. This is the interface at http://www.mindspring.com/~amattei/aldl.htm , right? Terrill On Mon, 1 Mar 1999, Barry Tisdale wrote: > Anyone still currently working on the ALDL / PC project, or interested in it? > > Got the interface put together, works great, reading the ALDL data w/ QuickBasic program - just have to work out which numbers mean what. I'm reading a '91 GM ECU (Syclone). Anyone know what data is what? I was thinking of pots or 555s on the various sensors, but maybe someone already has the answers. > > Thanks - Barry > > > > > ------------------------------ From: Barry Tisdale Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 11:16:53 -0500 Subject: Re: ALDL project Hey, Fredrick, hello again - I'll have to xfer the data from my other computer - just have screen shots right now, will write the 'data save' maybe tonight. Basically, lots of numbers - raw data; w/o the scaling factors applied, pretty meaningless. Using Basic routines rather than assembly, seems fast enough. Have to tweak the hardware a bit to do it this way, though. TTYL - Barry At 02:39 PM 3/1/99 +0000, you wrote: >> Anyone still currently working on the ALDL / PC project, or interested in it? > >I haven't worked on it in a while, it went to the way side >as I'm doing up a Mopar block now, got sucked into a jeep >project, and about 400 other things. I'm interested in it >without a doubt. > >Can you send me a small sample of the data? I'd like to >take a look if you don't mind... > >-- >Frederic Breitwieser >Bridgeport, CT 06606 ------------------------------ From: Jason_Leone@xxx.com Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:01:11 -0800 Subject: Re: Speed Sensor <> There are three different types of "speed sensors" on most Euro cars. One is the Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS), which is usually mounted to the tranny on FWD cars (and sends pulsed signals to the ECU). This one is used for speedo readings, and eliminates the need for a speedo cable. I doubt you car uses this! The second type is the individual wheel speed sensor used on ABS equipped vehicles. composed of a gapped wheel (or race) and a magnetic pick up. Every wheel has this combo, if 4 channel ABS is present. Probably not applicable to your car... The third type often used is the engine speed sensor. This measures the engine rpm (and can determine the angular timing of the crank, or position). Most are composed of a 60 toothed wheel bolted to the crank, and a magnetic pick up (sometimes an optical one is used). E30 model BMWs had a factory toothed crank wheel/crank pulley that was outside the block. Late model VWs have an internal toothed wheel bolted to the crank, inside of the block (flywheel end). VWs happen to read TDC off of the trailing edge of the 13th tooth, other cars are similar. This rpm signal goes to the ECU, get's processed...then the ECU sends a different signal to the instrument cluster (Tachometer). The engine speed sensor will be in the engine bay. If it's an internal crank wheel, the sensor will be mounted into the block and will look like a knock sensor...but will be mounted much lower in the block. If you have an external crank wheel, it will be plainly visible off to the side of the crank pulley. However, the L-Jetronic system might not have what I'm talking about. I'd have to thumb through my Bosch FI book to figure that out. It's been awhile since I owned one of those cars. =) <> He he. Tell me more about this "Leone" car. Good name, I must say. Jason '93 SLC ------------------------------ From: dave.williams@xxx.us (Dave Williams) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 09:52:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Propane EFI - -> Yeah I've heard of people using it to replace freon. I've also heard - -> of AC systems BLOWING UP because of it. Try it at your own risk. - -> Just my two-cents. Ah, yes. MACS propaganda, on the level of spontaneous human combustion. ==dave.williams@xxx.us====================================== I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:09:11 -0500 Subject: Re: GM IAC >What's the minimum requirements for this >cone-shaped-hat club again? If you repeat something silly 4-5 times before ya remember it, damage something, or if you let the smoke out of three devices all at once that is an instant winner. > >Anyhow, my question is that the manuals I have (Haynes and the bigger >Chilton's model specific guide) mention an O-ring for the IAC. I didn't >find any O-ring or gasket of any sort. It was just plastic on aluminum. >Should this be the case? Some use gaskets, If there is one I use it, if not I don't go outta my way to replace it. The IAC is a stepper motor, and the ecm counts pulses sent to it for up/down idle. So if it get gummy and slows down in reaction to these pulses the amount of air bypassed is wrong. Bruce I don't have the full story on how the IAC >functions but maybe this could explain the degradation at idle when the >engine is hot with the different material expansion rates. Dunno...just >thinking out loud so sorry if that sounds really dumb. >Thanks! >Terrill ------------------------------ From: Pat Ford Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:22:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Speed Sensor On Mon, 1 Mar 1999 Jason_Leone@xxx.com wrote: > Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:01:11 -0800 > From: Jason_Leone@xxx.com > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Cc: Benjamin Marsh > Subject: Re: Speed Sensor > > < a speed sensor in the workshop manual - I have pulled the dash out to > try and find it. The closest thing I can find is a 3" long plastic > strip with metal tabs at each end and a thing in the middle that kinda > looks like a high voltage light bulb. Is this the speed sensor? ii so > will just replacing it fix the problem or is the speed sensor somewhere > else that I haven't looked.>> > > There are three different types of "speed sensors" on most Euro cars. One is the > Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS), which is usually mounted to the tranny on FWD cars > (and sends pulsed signals to the ECU). This one is used for speedo readings, and > eliminates the need for a speedo cable. I doubt you car uses this! on subarus the vss is on the back of the speedometer ( even on the gl-10 digital dash) > > The second type is the individual wheel speed sensor used on ABS equipped > vehicles. composed of a gapped wheel (or race) and a magnetic pick up. Every > wheel has this combo, if 4 channel ABS is present. Probably not applicable to > your car... not on 87 sub's > The third type often used is the engine speed sensor. This measures the engine > rpm (and can determine the angular timing of the crank, or position). Most are > composed of a 60 toothed wheel bolted to the crank, and a magnetic pick up > (sometimes an optical one is used). E30 model BMWs had a factory toothed crank > wheel/crank pulley that was outside the block. Late model VWs have an internal > toothed wheel bolted to the crank, inside of the block (flywheel end). VWs > happen to read TDC off of the trailing edge of the 13th tooth, other cars are > similar. This rpm signal goes to the ECU, get's processed...then the ECU sends a > different signal to the instrument cluster (Tachometer). this sensor is in the distributor, try removing the dist cap and check the radial play on the dist. shaft. I think the dist on the 87 4x4 and turbos was an optical interrupter if it is clean it out w/ brake cleaner and compressed air. > > The engine speed sensor will be in the engine bay. If it's an internal crank > wheel, the sensor will be mounted into the block and will look like a knock > sensor...but will be mounted much lower in the block. If you have an external > crank wheel, it will be plainly visible off to the side of the crank pulley. it's in the dist > > However, the L-Jetronic system might not have what I'm talking about. I'd have > to thumb through my Bosch FI book to figure that out. It's been awhile since I > owned one of those cars. =) > from 84 to 90 I was a mechanic at a Subaru, Saab, bmw dealership in Kingston ( di you know bmw stands for broken motor works) > <> the rx's were fun I wish I had one 8-( > > He he. Tell me more about this "Leone" car. Good name, I must say. > in Canada this was just called a subaru ( it was around this time the second model line was brought into canada ((the justy))) > Jason > '93 SLC > > > Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ From: Bryan Moody Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 13:33:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Electronic AFM adjustments & large injectors. I like your idea. Let me know how it works. Marcel wrote: > > Clarence L.Snyder wrote: > > > Partly right - partly wrong. It will work as you say untill the airflow > > maxes out the AFM - then it gets non-linear real fast. > > But, when I have this offset adjustment tool, I can adapt > ANY natural log AFM to work well, including ones that flow enough! > > Do different capacity AFM's max out at different voltages or do they > add a scaling factor to this "ln flow" formula to fit within the 0-5V > range? > > I'd have to adjust that scaling factor too, if I want to adapt a > different AFM. That might make things a bit more complicated. > > Anyone know at what hp level stock Toyota 4A-GE (redhat) AFM's > max out? I know the injectors will at about 140-150hp, but > when does the AFM? > > Of course if I take care of all this and publish the details > with schematic, we'd have a nice universal mod package for > ppl who want to retain most factory stuff (like me) and still > get better mixture spread than with spring tension adjustments. > > thanks, > > Marcel - -- Bryan Moody Greensboro, NC 86 Concours COG Southeast Area Director http://www.concours.org/se IBA: BBG, CCC Gold ------------------------------ From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:41:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Speed Sensor What you have found is likely a magnetic reed switch, which is often used as a speed sensor, built more or less into the speedo. Put an ohmmeter on it and turn the speedo cable, the ohmeter should go back and forth between 0 ohms and infinity. ------------------------------ From: Ludis Langens Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 12:49:38 -0800 Subject: Re: 730 in a buick... David A. Cooley wrote: > Looking to find any info on a 730 ECM in a 1987 Buick Somerset Regal, 2.5L > 4cyl... That's a strange combination. The Somerset Regal is just a Grand Am (N body), right? If so, it should probably have a '748 with the 2.5. The '730 would imply a 2.8, or perhaps a 2.0. > Any one have table locations etc? My brother just bought one and wants me > to help him pump it up a bit. We need more information - a P4 ECM can have many different table arrangements. What is the 8th byte of the EPROM? - -- Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ ------------------------------ From: Padgett 0sirius Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 19:01:39 -0500 Subject: Re: GM IAC >Anyhow, my question is that the manuals I have (Haynes and the bigger >Chilton's model specific guide) mention an O-ring for the IAC. I didn't >find any O-ring or gasket of any sort. It was just plastic on aluminum. Well is an air seal that does not get particularly hot so almost anything will work. Once used a gasket made from a paper bag for a seal & it worked fine. Will need to reset after installation. A. Padgett Peterson, P.E. Cybernetic Psychophysicist Anti-Virus, Cryptographics, & Antique Radio Researcher http://www.freivald.org/~padgett/index.html mailto:padgett@xxx.5 Key on request ------------------------------ From: Stuart Bunning Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 11:42:56 +1100 Subject: Re: Newbie ALDL question Is anyone willing to email me a copy of that Qbasic program for 8192 aldl I am about to start writing qbasic code to do the exact thing myself so i though maybe someone is willing to share there eye bleeding hours of programming with me for free?????? At 09:18 AM 1/3/99 -0600, you wrote: > > >On Mon, 1 Mar 1999, Barry Tisdale wrote: > >> Bill - >> >> Managed to get the ALDL interface working quite well - are you still interested in this project? I'm using a QuickBasic program to read the data - had no luck w/ GCAR. BTW, in your last letter, you referenced using "4 diodes" in the MAX232 circuit - should those be transistors (2N3904)? I used a MAX233 chip - no external caps; '04 inverter not needed. >> >> Get *lots* of data out, now just have to correlate it w/ what my scan tool reads. >> >> Any collaboration gladly accepted! >> >> Barry >> >I don't know about the syclone, but something useful, diacom appears >to store the data stream exactly as it comes of the interface in their >data files. I have a ALDL spec for my car, and using that spec I >was able to get meaningful data out of the diacom data file. Also, >there will be two bytes at the front of each data stream, that will be >the prom id, it will be repeated at the beginning of each set of data, >then there are typically several bytes of data that are error flags >(trouble codes, usually all zeros if everything is good). > >There should be a spec for the syclone, someone did send me a spec for >my car (93 Z28), and it does seem to be correct, because I have been >able to decode meaningful data from the diacom data files (things that >weren't displayed, or not displayed accurate enough). > > Roger > Best Regards, STUART BUNNING SALES ENGINEER KENELEC SCIENTIFIC PTY LTD 23-25 REDLAND DRIVE MITCHAM VICTORIA 3132 AUSTRALIA PHONE: 61 3 9873 1022 FAX: 61 3 9873 0200 EMAIL: stuart@xxx.au WEB: http://www.kenelec.com.au/ ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:03:57 -0500 Subject: Re: 730 in a buick... - -----Original Message----- From: Ludis Langens To: Diy_efi Date: Monday, March 01, 1999 4:03 PM Subject: Re: 730 in a buick... I thought that wasn't a valid way to ID proms. Bruce >> Looking to find any info on a 730 ECM in a 1987 Buick Somerset Regal, 2.5L >> 4cyl... >That's a strange combination. The Somerset Regal is just a Grand Am (N >body), right? If so, it should probably have a '748 with the 2.5. The >'730 would imply a 2.8, or perhaps a 2.0. >> Any one have table locations etc? My brother just bought one and wants me >> to help him pump it up a bit. >We need more information - a P4 ECM can have many different table >arrangements. What is the 8th byte of the EPROM? ------------------------------ From: "Mark Grady" Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:49:24 -0500 Subject: Newbie BCC question Hope this question doesn't reveal my ignorance too much.... I have a '96 Chevy Lumina APV at work. It doesn't have the RF key fob remote entry system. The owner's manual isn't with this van, never was. The doors lock every single stinkin' time you shift out of park. You have to manually unlock them to get out. This is rather annoying. I have a '96 Pontiac version that does have remote entry, you can change the mode of the Fort Knox lock option by holding the lock switch for 10 seconds, then pressing the unlock button on the key fob. How and what you press locks/unlocks the driver's door or none at all, etc. Does anyone know how to perform this same re-programming trick if you don't have the remote? Some other secret code? Turn signal on left, rear defroster on, right power mirror moving left, seat reclining... something like that? Mark mailto:mgrady@xxx.net ------------------------------ From: Barry Tisdale Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 22:23:25 -0500 Subject: ALDL, again Still working on the ALDL / PC thing. I've gotten *several* copies of the GM paper on the diagnostic link; all are probably from the same source, way back when, as they all contain the same typos and inaccuracies. Has anyone actually 'decoded' the actual data, i.e., converted the raw data into meaningful information? Some of the calcs given in the GM paper are just plain wrong. Lots of data acronyms have no references elsewhere in the paper; I can only guess @xxx. Anybody gone through this? I'd like to help / collaborate w/ anyone on this; hardware to get the data from ALDL to COM port is easy, works well. Software to capture & log the data doesn't require a genius (after all, I did it in QuickBasic). Trouble is, "what do it all mean..."? Any help *very* gladly accepted - thanks - Barry ------------------------------ From: "Ward Spoonemore" Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 19:57:17 -0800 Subject: RE: ALDL project If you list the part number and Chip broadcast code perhaps we can find something. Ward - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of Barry Tisdale Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 6:17 AM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: ALDL project Anyone still currently working on the ALDL / PC project, or interested in it? Got the interface put together, works great, reading the ALDL data w/ QuickBasic program - just have to work out which numbers mean what. I'm reading a '91 GM ECU (Syclone). Anyone know what data is what? I was thinking of pots or 555s on the various sensors, but maybe someone already has the answers. Thanks - Barry ------------------------------ From: "Ward Spoonemore" Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:42:01 -0800 Subject: RE: ALDL, again Most likely you are unaware that GM has around a hundred different diag data standards, There are four different data xmission standards, including OBD II. perhaps is you stated your needs ..... ECM P/N, and or broadcast code ... Ward - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of Barry Tisdale Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 7:23 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: ALDL, again Still working on the ALDL / PC thing. I've gotten *several* copies of the GM paper on the diagnostic link; all are probably from the same source, way back when, as they all contain the same typos and inaccuracies. Has anyone actually 'decoded' the actual data, i.e., converted the raw data into meaningful information? Some of the calcs given in the GM paper are just plain wrong. Lots of data acronyms have no references elsewhere in the paper; I can only guess @xxx. Some are obvious, many are cryptic. Anybody gone through this? I'd like to help / collaborate w/ anyone on this; hardware to get the data from ALDL to COM port is easy, works well. Software to capture & log the data doesn't require a genius (after all, I did it in QuickBasic). Trouble is, "what do it all mean..."? Any help *very* gladly accepted - thanks - Barry ------------------------------ From: Raymond C Drouillard Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 23:15:41 -0500 Subject: Re: EFI for Propane >You don't need a pump if you take propane off the bottom of the tank - >called liquid withdrawal. This is standard for automotive propane >systems. It IS liquid when it hits the "evaporator" - you know, that >water heated thingamagig used on "carbed" propane units. The pressure >varies with tank(vapour) temperature - not with fuel level, so it would The reason for increasing the pressure is that it is warmer under the hood than at the tank. The pressure in the tank would be insufficient to keep the propane in a liquid state in the plumbing under the hood. Even a little bubbling would cause less fuel to be injected than is intended by the ECU. >not be hard to calibrate an EFI to use liquid propane. The problem I see >is getting an injector to do the deed. Mabee try the electronic >controlled injectors from something like a Ford Powerstroke or >electronically managed Cummins or Mack. Not sure how they work, or if >they require lubrication. Size the injector to flow 15% more fuel than >you would use for gasoline to start because energy density of propane is >about that much lower (If I remember correctly - my propane days go back >a little while) >The big problem, at least here in Ontario, would be getting the bugger >certified so you would be allowed to re-fuel it. Lots of little things >you would not think of, I'm sure. Very good point! Even here in Michigan, it would be a good idea to get the documentation on the standards. It makes good sense to build the system to safety standards that were developed from exerience. Some experience is very costly... Ray ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. 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