DIY_EFI Digest Friday, 5 March 1999 Volume 04 : Number 145 In this issue: GN/Ttype List Re: GN/Ttype List RE: Dwell control vs timing control Re: More bounces... Re: aluminum intake cosmetics Re: aluminum intake cosmetics Re: How do AICs work? Re: aluminum intake cosmetics Re: Handheld O-Scope Re: Handheld O-Scope Re: Handheld O-Scope Re: Dwell control vs timing control Voltage controller? Re: How do AICs work? RE: More bounces... RE: ALDL, again RE: aluminum intake cosmetics RE: Timing See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Sagers" Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 17:25:20 PST Subject: GN/Ttype List Back in message #129 or there abouts, someone mentioned the GN/Ttype list. Where do I find that list? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:12:53 -0500 Subject: Re: GN/Ttype List - -----Original Message----- From: David Sagers To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Thursday, March 04, 1999 8:43 PM Subject: GN/Ttype List Should find it off of http://www.gnttype.org Bruce >Back in message #129 or there abouts, someone mentioned the GN/Ttype >list. Where do I find that list? > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ From: "Ward Spoonemore" Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:37:14 -0800 Subject: RE: Dwell control vs timing control The ECM controlled dwell and compensates to spark latency when the bypass is connected, when bypass is open, or just starting up, dwell is controlled by the Distributor module, (or spark module in direct ignition systems). Some small anoint of spark advance is generated in the "open" bypass mode, about 6-8 degrees. Ward - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of Tedscj@xxx.com Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 4:23 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: Dwell control vs timing control In a message dated 3/4/99 6:24:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, nacelp@xxx.net writes: > gm specific > I been thinking way to much on this, but, I'll stick my head out again, and > say > what your reading in the prom is timing corrections, and the stuff for being > a cylinder late in the computations. > If the dwell controll, was in the prom, then disconnecting the distributor > from > the ecm would stop the engine from running. So the dwell control is in the > module. > So every thing in the prom would look the same from Dissy to DIS. Just > a matter of when the timing starts, as set by est signal. > Thoughts anyone?. > Bruce > According to the P4 Document, the module controls dwell in EST BYPSS mode, and the ECM controls dwell in EST mode. I know this is how Ford does it too, according to some books I've read. Also, you can see the dwell in the EST signal, and the GM EST signal looks just like the Ford SPOUT signal that I've seen in some books...Dwell control and all. In short, based on everything I've read and seen, I am about 99% certain that the ECM controls dwell under NORMAL operating conditions. But you are absolutely right that the EST signal for a DIS and a Dissy are identical, it is just the TIMING that is off. When I use the Dissy prom with my DIS, every thing is about 60 degrees too far advanced. What I don't understand is why when I changed the KREANGL (Spark Reference Angle) in the SyTy .bin, absolutely NOTHING happens. According to the P4 Document, KREFANGL is subtracted from the total timing computed by the ECM. This should fix the problem but it doesn't. I can detect no changes in spark angle no matter what value I put in there. It seems to have no effect whatsoever. I guess this is why someone simply inverted the Reference Pulse Because there is no other way I can find to bring the timing back to where it should be. There should be no reason to invert the EST signal. It's the Reference Pulse that is off. If you get the ECM to read the Rising Edge instead of the Falling edge (by inverting the signal) then everything should work alot better. Maybe still a few degrees off, but not 60 degrees off! In short, Bruce, you were right that the solution is to invert the signal (Reference Pulse). I just wanted to try a few things in the Prom first, but nothing worked. Which brings me to a question: How do you build a circuit that inverts a signal? :) Ted ------------------------------ From: "Walter Sherwin" Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:18:02 -0800 Subject: Re: More bounces... Okay, what am I missing here? Every time I send a message to "Majordomo....." it kicks it back. I've tried various combinations, but to no avail. Exactly what syntax should I use for the title, and message body? Thanks; Walt. - -----Original Message----- From: Orin Eman To: DIY EFI List ; EFI332 Date: Thursday, March 04, 1999 12:05 AM Subject: More bounces... >Got to keep that s*bscribe word out of the first few lines... > >> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 23:48:29 +0000 >> From: steve ravet >> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) >> X-Accept-Language: en >> MIME-Version: 1.0 >> To: "diy_efi@xxx.edu" , >> "efi332@xxx.edu" >> Subject: GM ECM list is up and running >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >> I've gotten a few questions about the GM ECM list. It is UP and RUNNING >> right now. To subscribe, send an email to > >> majordomo@xxx.edu > >> In the body, put > >> subcribe gmecm > > >> Simple as that! > > > >> -- >> Steve Ravet >> ARM, INC >> steve.ravet@xxx.com >> www.arm.com ------------------------------ From: Tom Sharpe Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 22:03:35 -0600 Subject: Re: aluminum intake cosmetics Falb, John wrote: > also try > http://www.goracing.com/techline/cat-4.html > > clear protective coating I used TechLine ceramics on my pistons, etc. recommend them.. Get an old electric oven... & follow the instructions Tom S ------------------------------ From: Pedro Haynes Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 00:16:31 -0400 Subject: Re: aluminum intake cosmetics Once i found a diagram of a sand blaster that you can build from an old propane tank. If I am lucky enough to find it I will post the site. Pedro - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------ >Dave, > You were going down the right road. Why did you quit. I've >been traveling down that road for 30 years, and the end >isn't in site. I however, only have to finish the siding on >my new 5 car garage. > > Ken > >Dave Williams wrote: >> >> -> Sandblast the manifold first... which will cost you 10-20 >> -> bucks depending on the machine shop, if you don't have a >> >> For $50 or so you can buy an inexpensive siphon feed sandblaster, and >> then you'll have it for the next project. Of course, you'll need a >> compressor, but you probably wanted one anyway. Then a nice garage to >> keep the sandblaster and compressor in... hmm, might be better to just >> have someone else do it. >> >> ==dave.williams@xxx.us====================================== >> I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? >> my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? >> =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm >> > > ------------------------------ From: Daniel Houlton Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:39:46 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: How do AICs work? soren wrote: > > Dan H. wrote: > >It doesn't know that my AIC is injecting fuel as well, and it isn't > watching > >the O2 sensor to know that the mixture is going rich. So my WOT mixture is > >going to be way too rich and my stock injectors duty cycle is still going > >to max out at 5000 rpm assuming of course it'll rev that high from choking > >on all the fuel. > > >So why is this apparently not a problem? What am I missing? > > > Have the controller kick on under boost instead of WOT, say maybe at 6 > psi right before your factory injectors max out. Then just wick up the > boost until it is no longer slobbering rich. > > Soren Rounds But that doesn't do anything about preventing the stock injectors from maxing out. They'll still hit 100% duty cycle and stay there for the duration of max boost. I know realisticaly that's only going to be a few seconds, but isn't this extremely bad for them? I thought exceeding the 80% duty cycle very often or for very long burns them out in a hurry. Also, what about the ECM? What are the chances that it freaks out when the injectors hit 100%? Does it not care or will it assume something has failed and go to fail safe mode? I ask this because it happened last week. I had to slow way down for a car turning in front of me. After I got by, I nailed it but was in a pretty low gear. RPMs went to redline in a hurry and boost hit I think about 9 psi. It happened pretty fast and I wasn't watching carefully enough. Immediately after, my truck started coughing and sputtering, barely running. The engine light started flashing. I was paranoid I blew a head gasket or something. I pulled over and shut down. After a few minutes of checking under the hood and not finding anything obvious I tried to restart. It started and ran fine (so did my heart BTW). When I got home, I checked the codes and there were two of them, both indicating faulty injectors(s). I figured out it had gone into failsafe mode. I tested by pulling the MAF connector to force it into failsafe and sure enough, it coughed and sputtered and ran just like it had on the road. I know now that the injectors max out at 9 psi and 5K rpm and I'm sure I exceeded that. How likely is it that the ECM switched to failsafe because of this? I'm beginning to think I will have to intercept the MAF signal and alter it no matter how I do the extra fueling. Neither additional injectors or a rising rate FPR by themselves will prevent the stock injectors from hitting 100%. Even intercepting the signal to the injectors to prevent it from happening won't work because the ECM will still *think* they're at 100%. If I need to intercept and modify the MAF signal anyways, then I'd much rather swap to larger injectors than run the rising rate FPR or plumb in additional injectors. It's much cleaner I think, doesn't have any bad sides that I can see (so long as I don't go so big it won't idle) and it's much more stealthy. I'll have a much better chance of sliding this whole thing by the smog police if I don't have a huge regulator or extra fuel lines and injectors running everywhere. Any insight is appreciated. thanks - --Dan ------------------------------ From: Jim Davies Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:42:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: aluminum intake cosmetics On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Pedro Haynes wrote: > > Once i found a diagram of a sand blaster that you can build from an old > propane tank. If I am lucky enough to find it I will post the site. > A sandblast cabinet can be made from plywood, K3 board etc and will last a long time if you do not sandblast the cabinet directly. Sears used to sell a cheapo sandblaster that can be easily converted to use in the cabinet. These units came with steel nozzles, but ceramic were available from Sears for a reasonable price [this was a few years ago...] Cheap, but effective... Sand is pretty cheap by the sack. I usually used 20-30 for sheet metal, cast iron or whatever. Glass beads are a lot more money and often are a waste of time IMO. When the sand gets dirty, rounded off, etc it stops working. At the price of sand, you can afford to dump it. Keep the sand dry... ------------------------------ From: Daniel Houlton Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:47:41 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Handheld O-Scope Bruce Plecan wrote: > > Just saw an ad for one in MCM flyer > > Handheld O-Scope 5 Hz $199 > (800) 543-4330 How much use is this? I don't know much about them other than the higher the frequency, the higher the cost. What's the minimum we should be looking for to do EFI type stuff or just general circuit building? Is this one good enough to be useful or will it rapidly show it's limitations? I've seen 20, 30, 60 and up to 100 Hz scopes. How much is really needed? - --Dan ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 00:03:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Handheld O-Scope - -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Houlton To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Thursday, March 04, 1999 11:56 PM Subject: Re: Handheld O-Scope Please correct that to read 5Mhz I've been told 20Mhz is more than enough for automotive use, but I'm still getting up to speed Bruce >Bruce Plecan wrote: >> Just saw an ad for one in MCM flyer >> Handheld O-Scope 5 Hz $199 >> (800) 543-4330 >How much use is this? I don't know much about them other than the higher >the frequency, the higher the cost. What's the minimum we should be looking >for to do EFI type stuff or just general circuit building? Is this one >good enough to be useful or will it rapidly show it's limitations? I've >seen 20, 30, 60 and up to 100 Hz scopes. How much is really needed? >--Dan ------------------------------ From: Roger Heflin Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 23:01:29 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Handheld O-Scope On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Daniel Houlton wrote: > Bruce Plecan wrote: > > > > Just saw an ad for one in MCM flyer > > > > Handheld O-Scope 5 Hz $199 > > (800) 543-4330 > > How much use is this? I don't know much about them other than the higher > the frequency, the higher the cost. What's the minimum we should be looking > for to do EFI type stuff or just general circuit building? Is this one > good enough to be useful or will it rapidly show it's limitations? I've > seen 20, 30, 60 and up to 100 Hz scopes. How much is really needed? > You mean Mhz scopes. From what I know, 1Mhz would be fine for all automotive work, that is so long as you don't mess with the internals of the computer, then you probably need 20Mhz-100Mhz+ depending on the clock rate of the computer you are dealing with. Most automotive inputs are pretty low frequency, in fact so low that .5Mhz may be enough for auto work. Roger ------------------------------ From: rr Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 00:06:39 -0800 Subject: Re: Dwell control vs timing control My understanding of GM's dwell control is that it is in the distributor. The module measures the coil drive current, once the current reaches a certain level, the drive is reduced to maintain that level. It would be difficult for the ECM to control the max current level through the coil. The 'ole Kettering systems used a ballest resistor to limit the max current. Let's see, Motorola has something on this, hang on a minute... Weeelll, longer than a minute, but here it is: "High Energy Ignition Circuits": MC3334P/MCC3334/MCCF3334, in the Linear and Interface Circuits databook. Typically peaks at 5.5Amps and holds there until coil fires. For some reason, I thought that this is the chip GM uses in their HEI modules. (This is kinda like the peak & hold injector drivers, except that the current is held at max, not ramped down at hold). Even the off state duration is controlled to allow full coil discharge. HTH BobR P.S. Further reading, just before sending this, states (in the databook), that this device is designed to serve aftermarket Delco five terminal ignition applications... Hmmm, does make you wonder what GM is really doing in the seven terminal distributors. (I can see some bench work to get the scoop on this one). >gm specific >I been thinking way to much on this, but, I'll stick my head out again, and >say >what your reading in the prom is timing corrections, and the stuff for being >a cylinder late in the computations. > If the dwell controll, was in the prom, then disconnecting the distributor >from >the ecm would stop the engine from running. So the dwell control is in the >module. > So every thing in the prom would look the same from Dissy to DIS. Just >a matter of when the timing starts, as set by est signal. >Thoughts anyone?. >Bruce - -- ------------------------------ From: Daniel Houlton Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:13:29 -0700 (MST) Subject: Voltage controller? Hi. Me again. Sorry, but I've got more questions. For my turbo, I don't yet have an intercooler and don't know when I will. In the meantime, I've planned on building a water injection system using basically a boost pressurized tank and a couple pumps to provide a pressure differential to inject water after the turbo. Instead though, it's very likely that I'll be getting an ERL AquaMist from a friend to try out. This is the $500 job I think. Uses a high pressure magnetic/diaphram pump or something. I won't be getting the controller they sell for it, just the basic system. I'm pretty sure I read on their page that the pump pressure is controlled by a 0 - 12V signal. It could be it's just driven by 0 - 12V, but I thought it was a seperate signal. Power is through a seperate 12V supply. Maybe not though. This is how their controller controlls it. How would I produce this signal from a MAP sensor? Say I get a 2 Bar sensor. These are linear from 0 - 5V representing vacuum - ~15 psi (over ambient) right? Now if the MAP sensor put out 0 - 12V instead and the pump took a 0 - 5V signal, I could just use a pot and direct connect the sensor to the pump. I need to go the other way though. I need to step up the 0-5V MAP signal to a 0 - 12V signal for the pump. Any suggestions how to do it? What about if instead of a 0 - 12V signal I need a 0 - 12V power (presumably much higher amps than the MAP can supply) source? What I need is something like a 30 amp relay that can supply a variable voltage instead of full voltage or none. I'm sure something like this exists, but I'm (obviously) not an EE so I don't know what to look for. Oooh! What about an "electronic" pot? Something that can control resistance from a voltage signal instead of physically turning a dial? I could then provide full, high amp voltage to the pump through a relay and run it through this "electronic" pot. The pot would adjust the resistance according to the MAP output. Map signal goes up signalling pot resistance to go down and the pump gets more voltage resulting in higher water pressure. A seperate Hobbs switch could control the relay to arm the system at whatever boost pressure I want. Is this totally off the wall or is it doable? thanks - --Dan ------------------------------ From: "soren" Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:25:10 -0800 Subject: Re: How do AICs work? >If I need to intercept and modify the MAF signal anyways, then I'd much >rather swap to larger injectors than run the rising rate FPR or plumb in >additional injectors. It's much cleaner I think, doesn't have any bad >sides that I can see (so long as I don't go so big it won't idle) and >it's much more stealthy. I'll have a much better chance of sliding this >whole thing by the smog police if I don't have a huge regulator or extra >fuel lines and injectors running everywhere. > >Any insight is appreciated. I definitely agree that larger injectors are the way to go depending on your budget. The lack of extra plumbing is definitely a plus. However, if the ECM is reacting to the extra boost and going to 100% duty cycle on the stock injectors but cannot react to the change in fuel mixture caused by an additional injector (because it is in open loop), how could it react to the change in fuel mixture caused by the larger injectors when the ECM commanded 100% d.c.(again in open-loop)? It appears to me as if they would be similar in actual function. Soren Rounds ------------------------------ From: "Ward Spoonemore" Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:35:45 -0800 Subject: RE: More bounces... - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of Walter Sherwin Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 10:18 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: More bounces... Okay, what am I missing here? Every time I send a message to "Majordomo....." it kicks it back. I've tried various combinations, but to no avail. Exactly what syntax should I use for the title, and message body? Thanks; Walt. - -----Original Message----- From: Orin Eman To: DIY EFI List ; EFI332 Date: Thursday, March 04, 1999 12:05 AM Subject: More bounces... >Got to keep that s*bscribe word out of the first few lines... > >> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 23:48:29 +0000 >> From: steve ravet >> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) >> X-Accept-Language: en >> MIME-Version: 1.0 >> To: "diy_efi@xxx.edu" , >> "efi332@xxx.edu" >> Subject: GM ECM list is up and running >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >> I've gotten a few questions about the GM ECM list. It is UP and RUNNING >> right now. To subscribe, send an email to > >> majordomo@xxx.edu > >> In the body, put > >> subcribe gmecm > > >> Simple as that! > > > >> -- >> Steve Ravet >> ARM, INC >> steve.ravet@xxx.com >> www.arm.com ------------------------------ From: "Ward Spoonemore" Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:39:41 -0800 Subject: RE: ALDL, again Check out http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Shop/9938/ Ward - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of ECMnut@xxx.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 7:44 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: ALDL, again Allow me; GMC Syclone ECM, 1227749, 8192 baud, BC code is AYBM-4052 I have the same . HTH Mike V > Most likely you are unaware that GM has around a hundred different diag data > standards, There are four different data xmission standards, including OBD > II. perhaps is you stated your needs ..... ECM P/N, and or broadcast code > ... > Ward > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of Barry > Tisdale > Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 7:23 PM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: ALDL, again > > > Still working on the ALDL / PC thing. I've gotten *several* copies of the > GM paper on the diagnostic link; all are probably from the same source, way > back when, as they all contain the same typos and inaccuracies. > > Has anyone actually 'decoded' the actual data, i.e., converted the raw data > into meaningful information? Some of the calcs given in the GM paper are > just plain wrong. Lots of data acronyms have no references elsewhere in the > paper; I can only guess @xxx. Some are obvious, many are > cryptic. > > Anybody gone through this? I'd like to help / collaborate w/ anyone on > this; hardware to get the data from ALDL to COM port is easy, works well. > Software to capture & log the data doesn't require a genius (after all, I > did it in QuickBasic). Trouble is, "what do it all mean..."? > > Any help *very* gladly accepted - thanks - Barry > ------------------------------ From: Marc Piccioni Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:34:54 -0700 Subject: RE: aluminum intake cosmetics try getting the manifold clear anodized, the final appearance looks like magnesium - a light gray. - ---------- From: James Weiler[SMTP:james@xxx.ca] Sent: March 3, 1999 4:00 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: aluminum intake cosmetics Sorry about the non-EFI question but it's sort of related. I need some advice on how to best preserve the good looks of a freshly glass beaded intake manifold. Alot of people are saying stay away from clear coat as it will chip and flake off, supposedly it doesn't stick well to aluminum. (?) I've also been told about powder coating but was wondering if there were any pros or cons to that too? Should I just leave it alone? Polishing would be ideal but I refuse to spend a couple $100 over cosmetics (spend a whole day doing it myself is ok however). As usual any and all advice is much appreciated. cheers, jw P.S. If anybody can give me any tips on how to polish in the tight areas of an intake then I might try my hand at it. I assume I need I die grinder (will a dremmel drill do?) but don't know what I need for buffing pads or where to get them. begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(C4'`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`& !```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&$`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S M,BYE;F``,P`0`` M`"(```!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S,BYE;F5]E9FE 969I,S,R+F5N9RYO M:&EO+7-T871E+F5D=2<``@$+, $````G````4TU44#I$25E?149)0$5&23,S M,BY%3D# $````%````4TU44 `````>`!\,`0```!@```!M<&EC8VEO;FE M871T8V%N861A+FYE= `#``805E07> ,`!Q!U`P``'@`($ $```!E````5%)9 M1T545$E.1U1(14U!3DE&3TQ$0TQ%05)!3D]$25I%1"Q42$5&24Y!3$%04$5! M4D%.0T5,3T]+4TQ)2T5-04=.15-)54TM04Q)1TA41U)!62TM+2TM+2TM+2U& M4D]-.DI!30`````"`0D0`0```) $``",! ``4P<``$Q:1G4]6R"&_P`*`0\" M%0*H!>L"@P!0`O()`@!C: K @F +!TS9@N !T >8&QP2X*A2,*BR# ,3@P`M%I+7@Q-#0-\ S0)(,+63&N M-@J@`V 3T&,%0"TFIZ\*AR5;## F)D8#83HGKB,F)@R"($IA!X)790,#$ 20 M6U--5% Z`FHK)B+0!C85TG3RA=!F W`C ICRJ;30K $7 @,XD> M\#$Y,E @-#HD()@@4$TMGRA=5&\OWY,JFQZ@>5\-P&E -T$)&N R+@GP9RYO M:&AI;RT3P&$3T#?@xxx.YU,P\NKBT@:B9A-2\JF_\'0"& "X A@0N `9 @X06@ M9G,'@xxx.S,]XV)2<;U28F"H53!; 0:&P@xxx.* >8 0@1+ @`_#\;&P*A1%P!2 > M81WP&G'+(.%%4&8>\'-U'\ ^<"<)@$JQ4*%D;P>0;B?S!4!$$6-K4,!%D ,@ M2!$C/69-`2@_*0J%22?_2/$'0$4`2#$)\$@!'>%"Q/U2\'<$@5 3'0)$@"H4`D/M)`4@@$AT 6@4M#M3?$D&L RP&]( M\% "/H7;5:!BUG='T$WQ9$[Q4Z#]6<-T3!83L$6016 $`$5 JU1@1]%E9"$I M(I9!!"#]7I!U'X);45'2!T ?D4;CN6>";74QX1^Q%Z!C!S O1<)1%PG@$: L M"H5J=_$^_% N4T7Q2B%;4 ;@SF0W4O!@ M`CWA_QTS'/ B$DXA2P!'-FZB/>;_'4$#H$/ /9 B$AR"9R!'P/]IPT2230%# MP$L!(8 =8$85OT/ 'J!')@G "X!8(BA0TO4AP607H&T'@ ,@>-!X Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 00:03:17 -0700 Subject: RE: Timing Get a book titled basic cams and exhaust at any speed shop and read the procedure to find TDC, then fabricate a replacement point to indicate TDC and install a timing tape on the OD of the balancer. - ---------- From: Carmine Nicoletta[SMTP:carmine@xxx.com] Sent: March 4, 1999 8:34 AM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Timing Sorry if this isn't diy_efi related, but I have a question regarding timing on a 5.0L HO 84 T/A. The timing tab on the timing cover is gone (replaced it with a new one due to a leaky seal). How do I set the correct timing without a tab indicator? Will access to diacom help? Thanks Carmine begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@`'`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`& !```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&$`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S M,BYE;F``,P`0`` M`"(```!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S,BYE;F5]E9FE 969I,S,R+F5N9RYO M:&EO+7-T871E+F5D=2<``@$+, $````G````4TU44#I$25E?149)0$5&23,S M,BY%3D# $````%````4TU44 `````>`!\,`0```!@```!M<&EC M8VEO;FE 871T8V%N861A+FYE= `#``80<-O4B@,`!Q#]`0``'@`($ $```!E M````1T5404)/3TM4251,141"05-)0T-!35-!3D1%6$A!55-4051!3EE34$5% M1%-(3U!!3D1214%$5$A%4%)/0T5$55)%5$]&24Y$5$1#+%1(14Y&04)224-! M5$5!4D503$%#14U%3@xxx.X___ M_P`*`0\"%0*H!>L"@P!0`O()`@!C: K `#'36$!I8@1@(: N!:!M?ETMGRZM!F " M,"_?,.M-DPK $7 @xxx.2ZM5&\VGS#K)/!Y7YD- MP&E /@$:X#(N"?" 9RYO:&EO+28!'Q/0/J A4#G/-6YU8FI_++$[[S#K!V$F ML2C_*@,SWC8K=QO5-=<%L'(?8 :0QR"Q! `DP'-N)P5 /<67(&$+8!/09")0 M8G4%0-1)(!& =B-"<0I0$\#W/Q #H!>@9PL11%@FA2=!`1S -2XP3"!(3^,Y M0#F 5"]!*- B$"#1_R:',9 G12:%!:!*4 7 ! #M"H5G`B @X"@CA27!!4#_ M`_ @P!RQ,@`'X%#2(5 A@S,