DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, 10 March 1999 Volume 04 : Number 154 In this issue: Re: Which platform to start with... MAP Q? Re:TDI ProJection mods, was Re: New to list, have a question. Re: [Fwd: anyone out there] Re: MAP Q? info wanted on paxton fuel delivery system Re: [Fwd: anyone out there] Re: ProJection mods, was Re: New to list, have a question. Re: ProJection mods, was Re: New to list, have a question. Re: ProJection mods, was Re: New to list, have a question. Bosch Motronic Haltech DIS Distributor from MSD Re: New PROM uploaded Re: OBD II guys Re: OBD II guys Re: Haltech Re: steering modifications 5.7 TPI Re: 5.7 TPI Wiring harness for late model GM trucks Re: Use larger inj. & dual -pots/SMOG another harness # RE: 5.7 TPI Re: Which platform to start with... Dangerous injection ideas... RE: Injector Driver Re: Bosch Motronic - More junk yard parts Re: Wiring harness for late model GM trucks Re: Wiring harness for late model GM trucks RE: 5.7 TPI See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gary Derian" Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 07:46:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Which platform to start with... If all you want to do is get this thing running, then get a carb from another vehicle, or even a new Holley 5200 or something. Vega/Pinto carbs can be had at swap meets for $15. It was also used on Chrysler 2.2. Vans were open loop until '85. If you really want a project, then go for it. Gary Derian >Hello all, >Never thought I was going to do this, but here I go... >Bought the Girlfriend a 1982 Nissan Sentra with an Auto trans... Has a junk >smog carburetor and is only 65 HP from 1500cc. >The carb is shot and the dealer wants $500.00 for it. >I know I can pick up FI parts from a junk yard cheaper, so that's what I >want to do... Guess if I go PFI, I can keep the carb (with fuel lines >disconnected) as a throttle body and it will look stock to the smog >inspectors! What PCM would be the best to use, and are there any Generic >GM factory chips that would make a good starting point for this? >Thanks, >Dave > >=========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. >=========================================================== ------------------------------ From: Fredrik Skog Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 14:24:13 +0100 (MET) Subject: MAP Q? Hi all! I want to get hold of a map sensor for my project. I have a turbo car and run pretty high boost, so I need a sensor that can cope with 2 bar boost. Do anyone know of a good source for these. Is the sensor from electromotive or haltech any good? Are there cheaper alternatives? What about the Motorola MPX series? Are we interested in an absolute or differential sensor? And what about temperature compensation? I have no experience whatsoever with MAP sensors so I don't know what to use...it would sure be nice to use an MPX when thay are alot cheaper than the haltech sensors. How about vacuum? How do the sensors read that? In the specs for MPX it says that it reads from for exaple 0-200kPa. How do I get vacuum readings from this? Alot of questions.....I would apreciate any help on this Thanx! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Student at the Department of Computing Science Umeå University Fredrik Skog E-mail: c95fsg@xxx.se Taffelstråket 51 WWW: http://www.acc.umu.se/~skog/ 903 53 Umeå Phone: +46-(0)90-136365 Living and dying laughing and crying Once you have seen it you will never be the same Life in the fast lane is just how it seems Hard and it is heavy dirty and mean /MetallicA ------------------------------ From: Jason_Leone@xxx.com Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 09:22:46 -0800 Subject: Re:TDI <> Want a bump in Bosch TDI power? Go to http://www.newdimensions.com/default2.html and click on the "Want more power from your TDI?" link. I'm sure you guys can copy that T.E.C. Automobile Design "chip" interface. Jason ------------------------------ From: esc Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 13:37:00 -0600 Subject: ProJection mods, was Re: New to list, have a question. At 07:45 AM 3/8/99 -0600, you wrote: > snip > 1 . my setup, without the EGO feedback, goes very lean at the slightest >increase of the throttle from cruise. Best I can figure is the slight >opening of the throttle plate adds enough extra air to make it lean >but the tps voltage increase isn't adequate to be sensed as an increase >in fuel ???? I saw this problem on a friends Bronco with the 2 Barrel ProJection. But it was never a problem for me until I installed the closed loop kit. I recently leaned out the adjustments and this problem has almost disapeared. Since the closed loop kit is no longer making the mixture a LOT leaner it does not interfere with the throttle responce as much. > 3 . are you aware that I have made a parts list for the 502 (or is >a 520 ??) and a PCB drawing for it ?? Someone has a web site for >the Holley ProJection (lemme look ..... yeah, check with >Andy if he still has it or not. If you want what I have on the ProJection, >holler and I'll send it to you No, I was not aware of that. I would like to have any information you can supply, thanks. If you can find the address of that ProJection site I would like it also. snip >>I really like the throttle body part of the ProJection, but thats the only >>part I really want to keep. I'm not all that happy with the controller. I >>really want something that I can have more control over and that will >>accept input from more sources. >> >>Eric > >You are in the right place, IMO .... there's several who have >adapted the GM ECM to the ProJection TB. "Bruce Plecan" , >who is on this list, is probably your best contact, IMO. > > >Tom Cloud Again, I would love to have any information that anyone can give me on doing this type of conversion. Eric Comstock esc@xxx.com ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 14:40:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fwd: anyone out there] here is his E-mail: EFISYSTEMS@xxx.com The mailing list server is at Ohio State. Beyond a doubt, he knows his stuff. His name is Carl Summers, and I've talked to him briefly via email, but nothing real technical. If ya contact him, let him know you read the message off the GM_ECM mailing list. If you want to wade through some technical stuff, I'll give you the address for the mailing lists there. It's not for the faint of heart. Shannen HotSFGT@xxx.com wrote: > > Hey thanks, who is this guy, sounds like he knows his sh#t. He is at Ohio > State, or was the post sent to someone there?? I have relatives in Ohio and > wouldnt mind a trip to talk with this guy. If not, give me his name and email > address and I will try to contact him on the net for some advice, thanks. > PS- I was thinking the same thing, maybe find an old 2 liter Sunbird turbo > setup and try to graft it on- dont know if the ecm will run my 2.4 though- > might not match up to all these new sensors on the OBD2 stuff. Thats where > talking to someone like that turbo guy might gain us some really good info and > advice. > Thanks again, > TK ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 15:10:03 -0500 Subject: Re: MAP Q? - -----Original Message----- From: Fredrik Skog To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 8:44 AM Subject: MAP Q? General Motors has a 3 bar MAP. A gm 3 bar reads to 2 bar of boost. MAP, Manifold Absolute Pressure. Bruce Hi all! I want to get hold of a map sensor for my project. I have a turbo car and run pretty high boost, so I need a sensor that can cope with 2 bar boost. Do anyone know of a good source for these. Is the sensor from electromotive or haltech any good? Are there cheaper alternatives? What about the Motorola MPX series? Are we interested in an absolute or differential sensor? And what about temperature compensation? I have no experience whatsoever with MAP sensors so I don't know what to use...it would sure be nice to use an MPX when thay are alot cheaper than the haltech sensors. How about vacuum? How do the sensors read that? In the specs for MPX it says that it reads from for exaple 0-200kPa. How do I get vacuum readings from this? Alot of questions.....I would apreciate any help on this Thanx! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- Student at the Department of Computing Science Umeå University Fredrik Skog E-mail: c95fsg@xxx.se Taffelstråket 51 WWW: http://www.acc.umu.se/~skog/ 903 53 Umeå Phone: +46-(0)90-136365 Living and dying laughing and crying Once you have seen it you will never be the same Life in the fast lane is just how it seems Hard and it is heavy dirty and mean /MetallicA ------------------------------ From: jq Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 12:30:52 -0800 Subject: info wanted on paxton fuel delivery system if any1 has any info on the paxton fuel delivery system for an L98 application i would appreciate it. tankx. ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 15:52:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fwd: anyone out there] Oops. It looks like I need to let my right hand know what my left hand is doing. Shannen Shannen Durphey wrote: > > here is his E-mail: > EFISYSTEMS@xxx.com > > The mailing list server is at Ohio State. > > Beyond a doubt, he knows his stuff. His name is Carl Summers, and > I've talked to him briefly via email, but nothing real technical. If > ya contact him, let him know you read the message off the GM_ECM > mailing list. If you want to wade through some technical stuff, I'll > give you the address for the mailing lists there. It's not for the > faint of heart. > Shannen > > HotSFGT@xxx.com wrote: > > > > Hey thanks, who is this guy, sounds like he knows his sh#t. He is at Ohio > > State, or was the post sent to someone there?? I have relatives in Ohio and > > wouldnt mind a trip to talk with this guy. If not, give me his name and email > > address and I will try to contact him on the net for some advice, thanks. > > PS- I was thinking the same thing, maybe find an old 2 liter Sunbird turbo > > setup and try to graft it on- dont know if the ecm will run my 2.4 though- > > might not match up to all these new sensors on the OBD2 stuff. Thats where > > talking to someone like that turbo guy might gain us some really good info and > > advice. > > Thanks again, > > TK ------------------------------ From: cloud@xxx.edu Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 15:14:33 -0600 Subject: Re: ProJection mods, was Re: New to list, have a question. At 01:37 PM 3/9/99 -0600, you wrote: >At 07:45 AM 3/8/99 -0600, you wrote: >> >snip >> 1 . my setup, without the EGO feedback, goes very lean at the slightest >>increase of the throttle from cruise. Best I can figure is the slight >>opening of the throttle plate adds enough extra air to make it lean >>but the tps voltage increase isn't adequate to be sensed as an increase >>in fuel ???? > >I saw this problem on a friends Bronco with the 2 Barrel ProJection. But >it was never a problem for me until I installed the closed loop kit. I >recently leaned out the adjustments and this problem has almost disapeared. > Since the closed loop kit is no longer making the mixture a LOT leaner it >does not interfere with the throttle responce as much. > > >> 3 . are you aware that I have made a parts list for the 502 (or is >>a 520 ??) and a PCB drawing for it ?? Someone has a web site for >>the Holley ProJection (lemme look ..... yeah, check with >>Andy >if he still has it or not. If you want what I have on the ProJection, >>holler and I'll send it to you > >No, I was not aware of that. I would like to have any information you can >supply, thanks. >If you can find the address of that ProJection site I would like it also. > >snip > >>>I really like the throttle body part of the ProJection, but thats the only >>>part I really want to keep. I'm not all that happy with the controller. I >>>really want something that I can have more control over and that will >>>accept input from more sources. >>> >>>Eric >> >>You are in the right place, IMO .... there's several who have >>adapted the GM ECM to the ProJection TB. "Bruce Plecan" , >>who is on this list, is probably your best contact, IMO. >> >> >>Tom Cloud > >Again, I would love to have any information that anyone can give me on >doing this type of conversion. > > > >Eric Comstock >esc@xxx.com Eric, I've just finished putting some ProJection info on my automotive site http://www.austin.cc.tx.us/ESA/tc_auto.html (see first link at top) I, too, would like to "re"-find the site on the Holley ProJection .... anyone know where it is ?? It was done by Andy Quaas ------------------------------ From: andy quaas Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:40:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: ProJection mods, was Re: New to list, have a question. The website is www.genevaonline.com/~efi I haven't updated it in a long time, but all file should still be there in www.genevaonline.com/~efi/files I have also adapted a GM 1227730 to a holley 4bbl TBI. It worked well under most conditions, but i had little time to tinker with the calibration, so I sold it. I just bought another 4Di to install on a new built big-block. I have zero experience with the analog projections. I used to have a 4Di on my truck, then the IAC wires shorted to the intake manifold, then the IAC driver chip burned out on the ECM, taking with it traces that run the injector drivers. Andy efi@xxx.com realsquash@xxx.com - ---esc wrote: > > At 07:45 AM 3/8/99 -0600, you wrote: > > > snip > > 1 . my setup, without the EGO feedback, goes very lean at the slightest > >increase of the throttle from cruise. Best I can figure is the slight > >opening of the throttle plate adds enough extra air to make it lean > >but the tps voltage increase isn't adequate to be sensed as an increase > >in fuel ???? > > I saw this problem on a friends Bronco with the 2 Barrel ProJection. But > it was never a problem for me until I installed the closed loop kit. I > recently leaned out the adjustments and this problem has almost disapeared. > Since the closed loop kit is no longer making the mixture a LOT leaner it > does not interfere with the throttle responce as much. > > > > 3 . are you aware that I have made a parts list for the 502 (or is > >a 520 ??) and a PCB drawing for it ?? Someone has a web site for > >the Holley ProJection (lemme look ..... yeah, check with > >Andy >if he still has it or not. If you want what I have on the ProJection, > >holler and I'll send it to you > > No, I was not aware of that. I would like to have any information you can > supply, thanks. > If you can find the address of that ProJection site I would like it also. > > snip > > >>I really like the throttle body part of the ProJection, but thats the only > >>part I really want to keep. I'm not all that happy with the controller. I > >>really want something that I can have more control over and that will > >>accept input from more sources. > >> > >>Eric > > > >You are in the right place, IMO .... there's several who have > >adapted the GM ECM to the ProJection TB. "Bruce Plecan" , > >who is on this list, is probably your best contact, IMO. > > > > > >Tom Cloud > > Again, I would love to have any information that anyone can give me on > doing this type of conversion. > > > > Eric Comstock > esc@xxx.com > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ From: andy quaas Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:45:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: ProJection mods, was Re: New to list, have a question. I need to finish that site someday. www.genevaonline.com/~efi or www.genevaonline.com/~efi/files (there is no link to those) Have a ball. Andy - ---cloud@xxx.edu wrote: > > > At 01:37 PM 3/9/99 -0600, you wrote: > >At 07:45 AM 3/8/99 -0600, you wrote: > >> > >snip > >> 1 . my setup, without the EGO feedback, goes very lean at the slightest > >>increase of the throttle from cruise. Best I can figure is the slight > >>opening of the throttle plate adds enough extra air to make it lean > >>but the tps voltage increase isn't adequate to be sensed as an increase > >>in fuel ???? > > > >I saw this problem on a friends Bronco with the 2 Barrel ProJection. But > >it was never a problem for me until I installed the closed loop kit. I > >recently leaned out the adjustments and this problem has almost disapeared. > > Since the closed loop kit is no longer making the mixture a LOT leaner it > >does not interfere with the throttle responce as much. > > > > > >> 3 . are you aware that I have made a parts list for the 502 (or is > >>a 520 ??) and a PCB drawing for it ?? Someone has a web site for > >>the Holley ProJection (lemme look ..... yeah, check with > >>Andy >>if he still has it or not. If you want what I have on the ProJection, > >>holler and I'll send it to you > > > >No, I was not aware of that. I would like to have any information you can > >supply, thanks. > >If you can find the address of that ProJection site I would like it also. > > > >snip > > > >>>I really like the throttle body part of the ProJection, but thats the only > >>>part I really want to keep. I'm not all that happy with the controller. I > >>>really want something that I can have more control over and that will > >>>accept input from more sources. > >>> > >>>Eric > >> > >>You are in the right place, IMO .... there's several who have > >>adapted the GM ECM to the ProJection TB. "Bruce Plecan" > , > >>who is on this list, is probably your best contact, IMO. > >> > >> > >>Tom Cloud > > > >Again, I would love to have any information that anyone can give me on > >doing this type of conversion. > > > > > > > >Eric Comstock > >esc@xxx.com > > Eric, I've just finished putting some ProJection info on my automotive > site > > http://www.austin.cc.tx.us/ESA/tc_auto.html > > (see first link at top) > > I, too, would like to "re"-find the site on the Holley ProJection .... > anyone know where it is ?? It was done by Andy Quaas Don't have any web info though (musta lost it). > > > > Tom Cloud > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ From: tv@xxx. Voigt) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 22:52:58 +0100 Subject: Bosch Motronic Hi everybody ! Trying to understand the Motronic of my 944 turbo Porsche, I would like to know if there is somebody else on the same path ? Are there any (public) information available ? Is there a chance to build a DIY EFI to replace the Bosch Motronic but stay with the current sensors/cables ? One day I'll break this %#!ߧ$!... box ! Thomas ------------------------------ From: justin w ivan und stnt Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 17:11:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: Haltech I have been following the list for quite a while now (1+ year) in hopes of coming up with a diy fuel injection system for a turbocharged 4cyl Volkswagen. The current injection is Bosch digifant that controls a factory supercharger up to 11 psi ~ 160 hp. There exists aftermarket chips for up to 15 psi of boost ~ 190 hp. I am looking to turbocharge at 16 to 18 psi and hoping for 250+ hp (crank). To date I have not come across an acceptable diy that would be easy to implement and update as I develop my car. This has led me to the idea of getting a programmable injection system. As of now the two that I have heard the most about are the TECII system and haltechs. I was looking for opinions on either system as well as if you feel that it is the best idea conserdering cost, ease of use and adaptibility. Also, does anyone have a Haltech for sale or know of a good location to get one ata reasonable price. I am looking specifically for the old E6A (ES6A?). Any help would be greatly appreciated. Justin ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 17:49:31 -0500 Subject: DIS Distributor from MSD New Car Craft has blerb on new MSD Distibutor, with synch signal for DIS, SEFI (SBC). Only $430 from Jeg's list $540 Hurry, Hurry Step Right Up. Bruce ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 18:31:50 -0500 Subject: Re: New PROM uploaded Thanks Scott. Just as I was beginning to think I needed one, too. Seriously. Shannen Scott Feaver wrote: > > I have uploaded the file ARUT9058.bin to the incoming directory. > > It is off of a 730 ecm in a 91 Pontiac Sunbird. 3.1V6 engine, 3-speed auto, > 2.53 axle ratio. Has A/C and power everything. > > Scott ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 18:34:20 -0500 Subject: Re: OBD II guys New uses for "gas hog clunker" laws. Shannen Raymond C Drouillard wrote: > > >> I might be crazy, but if GM can open your door lock and tell where you > >> are from a satellite, how far away can it be that they will be able to > >> tell what your car is doing at anytime(I know sending is different > from > >> receiving, but half the technology is there, right now). I was told > >> they are working on a way to fix your memcal from the sky(via > >> satellite). > >> Max > > > >It would really SUCK if they can tell what your cars is doing, I > routinely > >speed (~50K over). It could make GM extra money, lets say they (gm) get > >1% of speeding fines.. At long last freedom from photo radar, speed > traps your > >car could just rat you out.. > > > >I think it is possible that someone at gm has thought about this > > Of course, those of us with older vehicles would have a big advantage. > No "tattletale" ECM to snitch on us, and the cops would probablly have a > lot less radar and photo equipment as the newer "snitch" ECMs come on > line. Just think... we can drive past all of the sheep in their new > "snitch" cars, knowing that the cops can't read our ECM, and that they > probablly don't have too many radar guns left. > > Well... I'm trying to see the bright side. The down side is that they > might mandate "retrofit" ECMs, or even ban older cars. > > Ray > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 18:36:59 -0500 Subject: Re: OBD II guys xxalexx@xxx.com wrote: > I read a few days ago somewhere about a flight recorder system being > introduced, hooked into airbag system. > alex GM claimed up to 10 crashes can be recorded by airbag control module IIRC. This was in 96 or 97. Shannen ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 19:28:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Haltech - -----Original Message----- From: justin w ivan und stnt To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 5:34 PM Subject: Haltech Watch what they use for sensors. Some sensors for the older stuff is very $$$$. Force Fuel in FL just had a GP on Haltech E6GM for $550. Haven't hooked it up yet but, looks like a good unit. Many options, for setup full time Baro etc. Bruce >I have been following the list for quite a while now (1+ year) in hopes of >coming up with a diy fuel injection system for a turbocharged 4cyl >Volkswagen. The current injection is Bosch digifant that controls a >factory supercharger up to 11 psi ~ 160 hp. There exists aftermarket chips >for up to 15 psi of boost ~ 190 hp. I am looking to turbocharge at 16 to >18 psi and hoping for 250+ hp (crank). > To date I have not come across an acceptable diy that would be >easy to implement and update as I develop my car. This has led me to the >idea of getting a programmable injection system. As of now the two that I >have heard the most about are the TECII system and haltechs. > I was looking for opinions on either system as well as if you feel >that it is the best idea conserdering cost, ease of use and adaptibility. >Also, does anyone have a Haltech for sale or know of a good location to >get one ata reasonable price. I am looking specifically for the old E6A >(ES6A?). > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > Justin > > ------------------------------ From: donna habel Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 19:50:05 -0500 Subject: Re: steering modifications There is a list server just for 67-73 Cougars. they can be found at listserv@xxx. This server supports several lists, here's how to get on the cougar list. 1. Create an e-mail message to listserv@xxx.com 2. Leave the "subject" line of that message blank. 3. For the first line of the body of the message type: SUB CLASSIC-COUGARS first name last name For example, if your name is John Doe, your subscription request would read: SUB CLASSIC-COUGARS John Doe 4. Remove all other characters, including your signature line(s), from the body of the message. 5. Send the message. Bruce Habel 69 Bench Seat Cougar 69 Standard Cougar 69 Convertible Cougar At 03:21 PM 3/7/1999 -0800, you wrote: > >I have some suspension and steering modifications I'd like to make to my '69 >Cougar (same as a '69 Mustang). Can anybody direct me to a different >mailing list q > ------------------------------ From: Marc Piccioni Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 18:32:34 -0700 Subject: 5.7 TPI Would anyone hazard to suggest the best GM calpak to use on a 5.7 TPI batchfire speed density system ? /Marc ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 21:09:58 -0500 Subject: Re: 5.7 TPI - -----Original Message----- From: Marc Piccioni To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 8:38 PM Subject: 5.7 TPI >Would anyone hazard to suggest the best GM calpak to use on a 5.7 TPI batchfire speed density system ? Assuming 1227730 ecm then a AUJP would be where to start. Couple addresses have been posted, and the latest cal from gm 5.7 auto. Bruce > >/Marc > ------------------------------ From: "Jim Yeagley" Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 20:56:25 -0500 Subject: Wiring harness for late model GM trucks I found this in my browsing: Manufacturer's overstock buyout on wiring harness assemblies for late model GM trucks, busses, vans and RV's. These harnesses are priced at pennies on the dollar compared to original distributor cost ! MFG P/N: 12069696, and also MFG P/N: 12069591 Does anyone know if one of these will work with that 7747? ------------------------------ From: Mark_Duewel@xxx.gov Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 18:06:58 -0800 Subject: Re: Use larger inj. & dual -pots/SMOG Jason- Did you research (http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov) yet? I noticed the list at (http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/ARB/DevTypeList.asp) contains intercoolers with EOs, but the Smog Check Inspection Manual (revision 3) states in Section K that an intercooler is a Category I item that does not require an EO. I quote the header to the list: "Items that are not of concern as long as the required emission controls are connected and functioning". I'm sorry that the Inspection Manual is not on the web site, but any licensed Smog Check station is required to have one. All Smog Check stations must abide by the instructions in the Smog Check Inspection Manual, Smog Check Referees not excepted. There is no reason to schedule a Referee appointment if you have all of the "...required emission controls, ...connected and functioning". Your replacement of the powertrain management with the TEC II would absolutely not be acceptable to the Referee, but might go unnoticed by a regular Smog Check station if it was concealed (e.g., under the dash). I have no doubt that your TEC II can be dialed in as good as OEM, but these are the rules! The non-OEM turbo is absolutely not permitted without an EO. However, several EOs exist for VW Golf retrofits - why not the VR6? To summarize, the California Smog Check Referee will not pass any modification that is not either Category I - exempt as long as all required parts are still serviceable, Category II - allowable replacements (see list in Inspection Manual), or Category III - parts/systems requiring ARB approval (Executive Order). After lurking here and on the IMON site, I think I can almost double the hp of my Ford 2.3 turbo (currently non-intercooled) without any EO parts, and still get my Smog Check certificate from a regular station. BTW, the ASM loaded-mode test is only performed at 15 and 25 mph, no transients. Pretty easy to program around. - -Mark Jason_Leone@xxx.com on 03/08/99 10:46:22 AM To: Mark_Duewel@xxx.gov cc: diy_efi@xxx.edu (bcc: Mark Duewel/Smog Check/DCANotes) Subject: Re: Use larger inj. & dual -pots/SMOG I was asking if anybody had luck getting aftermarket parts tested at a Ref station. I didn't say that was my plan, or that I thought I could get my custom turbo car certified. Far from it. None of my parts have anything close to a C.A.R.B. E.O.#! If I have all of the factory emissions equipment present, and functioning properly...and the car passes the sniff test, then I would have a snowball's chance of passing at a Ref station. Jason '93 SLC ------------------------------ From: "Jim Yeagley" Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 20:59:55 -0500 Subject: another harness # Here's another harness P/N: MFG P/N: 28129040 Jim Yeagley 1996 Dodge Indy Ram See it and many others at: www.indyram.org 1975 Pontiac Grandville Brougham Conv. (in baskets) webmaster@xxx.org jimyeagley@xxx.net ------------------------------ From: "Ward Spoonemore" Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 18:18:48 -0800 Subject: RE: 5.7 TPI Not a very answerable question, not enough info to make and answer, i would pikc the 95 LT1 calibration, There are abouit 8 - 9 different 5.7's which one do you have Ward - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of Marc Piccioni Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 5:33 PM To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu' Subject: 5.7 TPI Would anyone hazard to suggest the best GM calpak to use on a 5.7 TPI batchfire speed density system ? /Marc ------------------------------ From: AL8001@xxx.com Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 21:26:34 EST Subject: Re: Which platform to start with... In a message dated 99-03-09 08:14:08 EST, gderian@xxx.net writes: >If all you want to do is get this thing running, then get a carb from >another vehicle, or even a new Holley 5200 or something. Vega/Pinto carbs >can be had at swap meets for $15. Try to go with the Pinto carb, they have removeable idle jets. ------------------------------ From: "Bill the arcstarter" Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 18:36:52 PST Subject: Dangerous injection ideas... OK - now I'm dangerous. Just ordered a linear actuator stepper motor from C&H surplus. Also got an acetylene regulator and a shaft encoder. I'm thinking about building some sort of DIY-EFI propane system. Am planning on using the linear stepper motor to replace the pressure adjustment of the acet. regulator to dispense propane into the test engine. I think I can get away with using an acetylene regulator with propane. Anyone think otherwise? I know the pressures are similar and I also think that chemically they call for the same/similar type of hosing too. But I may be wrong. If I stay with propane I'll probably start out with using the riding lawn mower as proof of concept. Then I'll think about converting it to gas (or maybe not) and putting it on in lieu of the shagged Q-jet on the 350. So if Holley can build a system which computes (via lookup table) an injection volume as a function of engine rpm and TPS - well I bet I can too. I'm thinking about using one PIC processor to manage this stepper motor, and another to read rpm/tps, do the table stuff and feed the final "fuel amt" to the 1st PIC. A serial EEPROM device will contain the output mapping. You can get single eeprom parts, 8 pin ICs with up to 32Kbytes of memory. Thats one heck of a lookup table. TBD is how/if I'll arrange for the hacking/massaging of this table. Comments anyone? I've seen comments about the Holley TBI heads. You can buy this unit as a replacement part for about $289 or so. There is also a similar unit w/o an AIV motor (air stepper). Anyone know if I can get the proper wiring connectors to fit one of these TBIs? I'm also wondering if I should go with some sort of MAP sensor instead of the tps, and just use tps for accel pump stuff... Anyone have any clues as to some minimum resolution of these lookup tables? I know that the GM ECUs use a megar table, something like 4x4 or so. Anyone also know a minimum precision of the output of this table - - ie 8 or 16 bits? Thanks and wish me luck! Comments invited. - -Bill Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Bill the arcstarter" Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 18:41:36 PST Subject: RE: Injector Driver It was written: >If I understand you correctly, you are going to hook up two injectors >in series. Be careful here because you are not just dealing with >resistance and current. Injectors also have inductance, and because >of this, it controls the time it takes for them to turn on. Adding >two injectors in series will more than double the time it takes to >turn them on, and if they are not exactly the same, one will fire >before the other. True. Another problem is that, if these are saturating injectors - each injector will only see half the proper voltage - therefore only half their full rated current - and might not even open at all. If they are P&H - it's harder to tell if they'd open or not - but Tim is right - the opening time will be longer since the voltage across the inductance (coil) is halved. - -Bill Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Tom Sharpe Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 21:01:57 -0600 Subject: Re: Bosch Motronic - More junk yard parts T. Voigt wrote: > Hi everybody ! > > Trying to understand the Motronic of my 944 turbo Porsche, > I would like to know if there is somebody else on the same > path ? Are there any (public) information available ? > > Is there a chance to build a DIY EFI to replace the Bosch > Motronic but stay with the current sensors/cables ? I picked up a Jetronic from an '87 at the junk yard for scrap. I just wanted to see what's inside. I broke the little white extra board with the rom on it getting it appart. Looking at the chips and many, many other small resistors and capacitors, I'd say this thing is mostly analog. it only has four T220s and one of them is for the power supply. I think you need a GM computer (or '332), GM sensors, and a GM harness. Good Luck. just another .02 Tom S ------------------------------ From: "Eugene Jones" Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 22:17:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Wiring harness for late model GM trucks - ---------- > From: Jim Yeagley > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Wiring harness for late model GM trucks > Date: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 8:56 PM > > I found this in my browsing: > > Manufacturer's overstock buyout on wiring harness assemblies for late model > GM trucks, busses, vans and RV's. These harnesses are priced at pennies on > the dollar compared to original distributor cost ! MFG P/N: 12069696, and > also MFG P/N: 12069591 > > > Does anyone know if one of these will work with that 7747? > > Jim Please send info on where to purchase these, I'm interested in one now !! thanks much. Eugene Jones jtvette@xxx.net ------------------------------ From: Tom Sharpe Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 21:48:09 -0600 Subject: Re: Wiring harness for late model GM trucks What'$ the co$t??? Buy one each. I'll take $.02 worth. tom S Jim Yeagley wrote: > I found this in my browsing: > > Manufacturer's overstock buyout on wiring harness assemblies for late model > GM trucks, busses, vans and RV's. These harnesses are priced at pennies on > the dollar compared to original distributor cost ! MFG P/N: 12069696, and > also MFG P/N: 12069591 > > Does anyone know if one of these will work with that 7747? ------------------------------ From: Marc Piccioni Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 22:25:07 -0700 Subject: RE: 5.7 TPI Hmm, I should have included the intended year. 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