DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, 10 March 1999 Volume 04 : Number 156 In this issue: Re: OBD II guys Re: ProJection mods, was Re: New to list, have a question. Re: ProJection mods, was Re: New to list, have a question. Re: Help! Need rpm activated switch w/ hysteresis!! Re: Wiring harness for late model GM trucks Re: Dangerous injection ideas... Harnesses Re: Wiring harness for late model GM trucks Re: DME EPROM Editor Software Re: Bosch Motronic Re: Bosch Motronic - More junk yard parts RE: ProJection mods, was Re: New to list, have a question. New... Where's the FAQ? RE: Holley 4D1 RE: MAP Q? Re: MAP Q? ZR-1 DIS Re: ZR-1 DIS ZR-1 DIS CONT inued Re: Harnesses Stinkpads and SetVer updated EEC page RE: ZR-1 DIS AutoMeter (Aluminum or Platinum???) RE: Help! Need rpm activated switch w/ hysteresis!! Re: AutoMeter (Aluminum or Platinum???) RE: AutoMeter (Aluminum or Platinum???) Re: AutoMeter (Aluminum or Platinum???) Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #153 Re: AutoMeter (Aluminum or Platinum???) RE: AutoMeter (Aluminum or Platinum???) Re: AutoMeter (Aluminum or Platinum???) RE: AutoMeter (Aluminum or Platinum???) RE: AutoMeter (Aluminum or Platinum???) See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: xxalexx@xxx.com Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 07:10:22 +0000 Subject: Re: OBD II guys > > I read a few days ago somewhere about a flight recorder system being > > introduced, hooked into airbag system. > > alex > GM claimed up to 10 crashes can be recorded by airbag control module > IIRC. > This was in 96 or 97. > Shannen The new model will record mph, rpm, time and about eight other useful items for accident investigation and your day in court. alex ------------------------------ From: cloud@xxx.edu Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 07:01:10 -0600 Subject: Re: ProJection mods, was Re: New to list, have a question. At 01:45 PM 3/9/99 -0800, andy quaas wrote: >I need to finish that site someday. www.genevaonline.com/~efi or >www.genevaonline.com/~efi/files (there is no link to those) > >Have a ball. > >Andy hokay .... I've put a link to your Holley ProJection page at http://www.austin.cc.tx.us/ESA/tc_auto1.html I have also put a link to your (Andy's) email address. Please tell me if this is verbotten! thanks, Tom Cloud ------------------------------ From: cloud@xxx.edu Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 07:03:25 -0600 Subject: Re: ProJection mods, was Re: New to list, have a question. At 01:40 PM 3/9/99 -0800, Andy Quaas wrote: >The website is www.genevaonline.com/~efi > >I haven't updated it in a long time, but all file should still be >there in www.genevaonline.com/~efi/files you don't have the analog PJ files I sent you ??? (nope, feelings not hurt, just noting that they're not there ??) Tom Cloud ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:17:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Help! Need rpm activated switch w/ hysteresis!! - -----Original Message----- From: Jason To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Wednesday, March 10, 1999 1:57 AM Subject: Help! Need rpm activated switch w/ hysteresis!! Use two rpm switches. The on turns on a SCR, off interupts power to SCR. Bruce >I need some help here, and soon. I have a variable geometry manifold >(Schrick VGi) that uses vacuum to open up an interior flap that changes >the runner geometry and thus the torque curve. It uses a controller, >two-way vacuum switch, and a vacuum tank. > >The controller has a ground, switched 12V+, an rpm signal tap from the >factory Bosch ECU, and a two pin connector that it uses to activate the >two-way vacuum switch (that's connected to a little diaphram that opens >the flap in the manifold). The controller has an adjustable rpm set >point for the rpm opening point (adjustable from 2K-6.3K rpm), and it >has an adjustable hysteresis setting from 0-200 rpm. The best torque is >made when the settings are 4K for the flap to open (short runners, high >hp up top), and a 50 rpm hysteresis (so it closes at 3950 rpm). Works >VERY well when all is functional. Rpm set points are made by DIP >switches (8 of them). Test mode will cycle the switch on/off (set all >DIP switches ot OFF), and turn the LED from green(closed flap) to red >(open flap, and back... > >The controller is done for. It will not even function in test mode. A >new one is $300. That's insane, for such a simple PCB. I tested ALL my >connections for continuity, and all check out. The wiring is sound, and >everything checks out. The controller will activate the two-way vacuum >switch as soon as it gets switched power. Regardless of rpm signal, or >set point. I looked at the PCB (encased in epoxy, except for the DIP >switches)and there appears to be a little discoloration or corrosion in >there. I'm an ME, not an EE...so I need a replacement controller. > >I looked at my Summit Racing catalog (pg. 119 & 126)and found a couple >rpm switches...but I don't think any of them have a hysteresis function. >The MSD one has a "low" and a "high", but that's it. I need something >that offers me adjustability from 3500-4500 rpm, with about a 50-100 rpm >hysteresis. I don't want to fab a PCB, I don't want to spend over $100, >and I need something soon. Without a controller, I have to choose >between low end torque, or high end power (by having the flap closed, or >open all the time). Drive-ability is less than perfect. > >So, does anybody know of an rpm switch that has an adjustable "on", but >also has a hysteresis setting too? Maybe I could get the MSD unit, and >set the "off" rpm set point lower than the "on" set point (an have a >negative overlap, making my own hysteresis)???? Thoughts? > >Jason >'93 VW Corrado VR6 w/ failing Schrick VGi controller!! > ------------------------------ From: "Jim Yeagley" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:22:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Wiring harness for late model GM trucks >Please send info on where to purchase these, I'm interested in one now !! >thanks much. >Eugene Jones >jtvette@xxx.net > The first 2 part #'s are here: http://www.meci.com/results.cgi?series+Automotive and use the next page link for the last #. If someone is going to buy a few, and you find out they'll work for me, can I buy one from you? Jim Yeagley ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:47:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Dangerous injection ideas... > I've seen comments about the Holley TBI heads. You can buy this unit >as a replacement part for about $289 or so. There is also a similar >unit w/o an AIV motor (air stepper). Anyone know if I can get the >proper wiring connectors to fit one of these TBIs? The couple I've seen they just looked like gm weatherpak connectors. Pep Boys might have them, and gm sells repair kits (kinda$$). > > I'm also wondering if I should go with some sort of MAP sensor instead >of the tps, and just use tps for accel pump stuff... I really think rpm, tps, engine temp., and map would be needed, I'd drop map if needed. Bruce > > Anyone have any clues as to some minimum resolution of these lookup >tables ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:01:12 -0500 Subject: Harnesses I got someone looking to find out what the part no.s fit. GM uses lots of harnesses, ie headlight harness, dash harness etc.. Bruce ------------------------------ From: Ken Kelly Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:59:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Wiring harness for late model GM trucks Eugene, I would like to look at that harness add! I bought a harness at Carlisle that sounds like it might be the same. It was sold by a tool dealer that had at least 100 of them. On Thursday they were $50, I bought it on Sat for $25. It is a Chassis wiring harness, not an Engine harness. I haven't used it yet, but was planning to use it in a street rod. It has a GM fuseblock with the 1980's style spade fuses, not the minature 1990's style spade fuse. It has a lot of cabling and plugs attached, but I haven't even opened it out yet. Ken Eugene Jones wrote: > > ---------- > > From: Jim Yeagley > > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > Subject: Wiring harness for late model GM trucks > > Date: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 8:56 PM > > > > I found this in my browsing: > > > > Manufacturer's overstock buyout on wiring harness assemblies for late > model > > GM trucks, busses, vans and RV's. These harnesses are priced at pennies > on > > the dollar compared to original distributor cost ! MFG P/N: 12069696, and > > also MFG P/N: 12069591 > > > > > > Does anyone know if one of these will work with that 7747? > > > > > Jim > Please send info on where to purchase these, I'm interested in one now !! > thanks much. > Eugene Jones > jtvette@xxx.net ------------------------------ From: m.cortecchia@xxx.it (Marco Cortecchia) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:46:18 +0100 Subject: Re: DME EPROM Editor Software At 03:18 AM 3/10/99 -0500, you wrote: >DME editor? Believe this was written by a former list member. Look >for "land shark" in the archives. >Shannen > >Ezra Hall wrote: >> >> oops, in my rush to try the software this am before leaving for the day, I >> didn't verify that when I loaded my EPROM data that it actually was loading >> my EPROM data. In fact, it only loaded the demo bin they include with the >> trial version of the software. The Help files specify that configuration >> files have to be purchased for each DME unit and EPROM combination (in >> addition to the actual software cost of course). Sorry for any confusion... >> >> >I downloaded the demo software, and was able to view EPROM data from my >> >Motronic unit. The demo software doesn't allow saving of data. I have sent >> a >> >request for pricing info. > If You just search a SoftWare for chip tuning , You can take a look to our tools , You can connect to : www.3wad.com/efi MARCO CORTECCHIA ( SoftWare developer ) Via Bellini 70/A 40026 - Imola ( BO ) ITALIA Tel/Fax : +39-(0)542-681936 m.cortecchia@xxx.it www.3wad.com/efi ------------------------------ From: m.cortecchia@xxx.it (Marco Cortecchia) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:44:07 +0100 Subject: Re: Bosch Motronic At 10:52 PM 3/9/99 +0100, you wrote: >Hi everybody ! > >Trying to understand the Motronic of my 944 turbo Porsche, >I would like to know if there is somebody else on the same >path ? Are there any (public) information available ? > >Is there a chance to build a DIY EFI to replace the Bosch >Motronic but stay with the current sensors/cables ? > >One day I'll break this %#!ߧ$!... box ! >Thomas > Do You think about Change maps inside the ROM ? If You are interest We can offer tools to made it . Try connect with : www.3wad.com/efi/ MARCO CORTECCHIA ( SoftWare developer ) Via Bellini 70/A 40026 - Imola ( BO ) ITALIA Tel/Fax : +39-(0)542-681936 m.cortecchia@xxx.it www.3wad.com/efi ------------------------------ From: m.cortecchia@xxx.it (Marco Cortecchia) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:40:02 +0100 Subject: Re: Bosch Motronic - More junk yard parts At 09:01 PM 3/9/99 -0600, you wrote: > > >T. Voigt wrote: > >> Hi everybody ! >> >> Trying to understand the Motronic of my 944 turbo Porsche, >> I would like to know if there is somebody else on the same >> path ? Are there any (public) information available ? >> >> Is there a chance to build a DIY EFI to replace the Bosch >> Motronic but stay with the current sensors/cables ? > >I picked up a Jetronic from an '87 at the junk yard for scrap. I just >wanted to see what's inside. I broke the little white extra board with >the rom on it getting it appart. Looking at the chips and many, many >other small resistors and capacitors, I'd say this thing is mostly >analog. it only has four T220s and one of them is for the power >supply. > >I think you need a GM computer (or '332), GM sensors, and a GM harness. >Good Luck. >just another .02 Tom S > Hi MARCO CORTECCHIA ( SoftWare developer ) Via Bellini 70/A 40026 - Imola ( BO ) ITALIA Tel/Fax : +39-(0)542-681936 m.cortecchia@xxx.it www.3wad.com/efi ------------------------------ From: "Van Setten, Tim (AZ75)" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:14:43 -0700 Subject: RE: ProJection mods, was Re: New to list, have a question. > ---------- > From: andy quaas[SMTP:realsquash@xxx.com] > Reply To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 2:40 PM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: ProJection mods, was Re: New to list, have a question. > > I used to have a 4Di on my truck, then the IAC wires shorted to the > intake manifold, then the IAC driver chip burned out on the ECM, > taking with it traces that run the injector drivers. > Andy > efi@xxx.com > realsquash@xxx.com > Andy, do you still have that unit? Maybe it's fixable.......Tim. ------------------------------ From: Glen Beard Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:26:30 -0500 Subject: New... Where's the FAQ? Hi. I'm new to this list (been on the f-body lists for about 2 years now) and I'm looking for some good EFI info. Is there a FAQ somewhere that I haven't found yet? How do I tell what model # of computer I have? (starting simple...) - -- Glen Beard 95 T/A conv M6 Vortech !heads, !cam http://home.nycap.rr.com/gbeard1/TransAm.html ------------------------------ From: "Eidson, Mark" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 07:31:32 -0800 Subject: RE: Holley 4D1 Frederic, Thanks, this solved the problem. me - -----Original Message----- From: Frederic Breitwieser [mailto:frederic.breitwieser@xxx.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 6:59 AM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: Holley 4D1 > I have a 700CFM 4Di on a 70 Mustang and it passes emmisions with no > problems. Has anyone figured out all the fields in the download file? BTW, > the eev21 software won't run, on my Thinkpad 600. It gives a divide error > even when run from DOS. Any ideas? me Let me guess, PCDOS 6 or 7, right? The solution is to load "setver.exe" and add the Holley executable to the "setver list" and force the version number of DOS as 5.0. This makes the issue go away. You'll find that on a lot of application specific DOS software with the Thinkpads... You remember how to use setver, right? - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.xephic.dynip.com 1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental 1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab (soon to be twin turbo 440) 2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) ------------------------------ From: "Van Setten, Tim (AZ75)" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:40:21 -0700 Subject: RE: MAP Q? > Subject: MAP Q? > > General Motors has a 3 bar MAP. A gm 3 bar reads to 2 bar of boost. > MAP, Manifold Absolute Pressure. > Bruce > The 2 bar MAP (1 bar boost, total 15 psi max) used on the Grand Nationals, GM PN: 16009886, Wells PN: SU-129, Standard PN: AS-4. The 3 bar MAP (2 bar boost, total 30 psi max) was used on the 79-80 turbo TA's. GM PN: 16040749. GM is the only source I've found for this MAP and they're real proud of it too! About $ 100 here in Phx. Any other sources, please post it. NOTE: Both have an orange grommet so it's impossible to tell one from the other. The only way I know is to hook it up, and if signal voltage is 2.25 Volts, it's a 2 bar MAP. If the signal Voltage is 1.54, it's a 3 bar..Tim. ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:19:22 -0500 Subject: Re: MAP Q? - -----Original Message----- From: Van Setten, Tim (AZ75) To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Wednesday, March 10, 1999 11:06 AM Subject: RE: MAP Q? Try Del at lockitup@xxx.net I just got a 3 bar for like $51... Tell him your on the "list" Bruce >> Subject: MAP Q? >> >> General Motors has a 3 bar MAP. A gm 3 bar reads to 2 bar of boost. >> MAP, Manifold Absolute Pressure. >> Bruce >> > The 2 bar MAP (1 bar boost, total 15 psi max) used on the Grand >Nationals, GM PN: 16009886, Wells PN: SU-129, Standard PN: AS-4. > > The 3 bar MAP (2 bar boost, total 30 psi max) was used on the 79-80 >turbo TA's. GM PN: 16040749. GM is the only source I've found for this MAP >and they're real proud of it too! About $ 100 here in Phx. Any other >sources, please post it. > > NOTE: Both have an orange grommet so it's impossible to tell one >from the other. The only way I know is to hook it up, and if signal voltage >is 2.25 Volts, it's a 2 bar MAP. If the signal Voltage is 1.54, it's a 3 >bar..Tim. > ------------------------------ From: "Guenther,Max" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:40:09 -0500 Subject: ZR-1 DIS >---------- I've been looking through the manual for a 90 Vette, especially the ZR-1 section. They use a DIS system which has its own module and uses the same I/O from the ECU with an added fault code. There is a wealth of info on this ignition but little info on the stock hei setup. The ZR-1 est signal is a pulsed signal which upon going from high to low fires the coil. Does this hold for the L98 or stock 90'vette 350 with a 7727? Reference is voltage is 45 degrees high, 45 degrees low on the crank. If this is the case all you would need for DIS would be the ignition mod, coil packs, toothed wheel,pickup(and bracket). And some way to tell the ecm to divide by two as the dist system gets 45 degrees from the cam.? Comments greatly appreciated! >Max ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:13:18 -0500 Subject: Re: ZR-1 DIS - -----Original Message----- From: Guenther,Max To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Wednesday, March 10, 1999 12:00 PM Subject: ZR-1 DIS Toothed wheel goes where?. For DIS, you need to locate a particular engine firing, ie #1 cylinder fire, and use that to synch all the future cylider firings. So you need, camshaft, and crankshaft. It's 45d in the distributor since it's turning 1/2 crank speed. Bruce >>---------- >I've been looking through the manual for a 90 Vette, especially the ZR-1 >section. They use a DIS system which has its own module and uses the >same I/O from the ECU with an added fault code. There is a wealth of >info on this ignition but little info on the stock hei setup. > The ZR-1 est signal is a pulsed signal which upon going from high to >low fires the coil. Does this hold for the L98 or stock 90'vette 350 >with a 7727? Reference is voltage is 45 degrees high, 45 degrees low on >the crank. >If this is the case all you would need for DIS would be the ignition >mod, coil packs, toothed wheel,pickup(and bracket). And some way to tell >the ecm to divide by two as the dist system gets 45 degrees from the >cam.? Comments greatly appreciated! >>Max ------------------------------ From: "Guenther,Max" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:19:30 -0500 Subject: ZR-1 DIS CONT inued >---------- Just found out why everybody has yet to convert. Module is 733 dollars. Also was looking at HEI picture looks like distributor would give 22.5 degrees high signal and 22.5 low at cam speed(16 evenly timed changes of state per cam revolution), which would equal the output of the ZR-1 module at 45 degrees high 45 degrees low, crank speed. Specs are given in the manual for the required pickup too as well as placement of the reluctor ring. All I need is $733.85 >Max ------------------------------ From: "Fran and Bud" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:33:01 +0000 Subject: Re: Harnesses Quick check identified ----96 and -----91 harnesses as 90-95 motor home rear lamp harness and front lamp harness. 28129040 harness did not appear to be valid number. Engine harness numbers for same application are 12109558-AT / 12109559-MT. It sure would be neat to find these at pennies on the dollar or even for a group buy at a significant discount. Bud - ---------- >From: "Bruce Plecan" >To: "DIY_EFI" >Subject: Harnesses >Date: Wed, Mar 10, 1999, 2:01 PM > >I got someone looking to find out what the part no.s fit. >GM uses lots of harnesses, ie headlight harness, dash >harness etc.. >Bruce > ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:45:17 +0000 Subject: Stinkpads and SetVer > Frederic, > Thanks, this solved the problem. me Glad it worked for ya... its the oldest trick in the book :) Especially with IBM Thinkpads. - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.xephic.dynip.com 1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental 1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab (soon to be twin turbo 440) 2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) ------------------------------ From: cloud@xxx.edu Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:58:01 -0600 Subject: updated EEC page I've made some corrections and additions http://www.austin.cc.tx.us./ESA/tc_eec.htm among them: * I mistakenly credited Bill Lewis' page to Bill Lawrance. * Bill Lawrance is supposed to give me the URL to his disassembler (it's on the efi-332 page ??) Below is the "lead-in" to the page: "It's all here! Schematics and other goodies on the Wizard's site; Greg P. and Dave's ftp sites have documents, pictures and other goodies; Jason has built a nice software trace utility; Bill has written a disassembler; Greg L. sells a data collection unit; Kevin has provided schematics for an adaptor module -- all you have to do is change the data and burn an EPROM; Andy provides the schematics for an EEC reader and also sells the PCB for it; Eric sells a complete adaptor that allows reading and modifying the EEC code; and APE sells a complete replacement computer/data collector/analyzer for the EEC." Tom Cloud ------------------------------ From: "Guenther,Max" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:07:37 -0500 Subject: RE: ZR-1 DIS >Toothed wheel goes where?. >For DIS, you need to locate a particular engine firing, ie #1 cylinder fire, >and >use that to synch all the future cylider firings. So you need, camshaft, >and crankshaft. It's 45d in the distributor since it's turning 1/2 crank >speed. >Bruce > I believe with DIS you only need crank signal as the coil packs fire two plugs at once. It only has four coil packs so each one fires once every revolution. The wheel is on the crank shaff and on the LT-5(ZR-1) its inside the crankcase but I'm sure I could rig up something to the vibration damper. The #1 is found by an 8+1 number of slots in the ring. The output to the ecm from the DIS is not altered for this pulse, >its always 45 degrees on then 45 off (crank). ------------------------------ From: d houlton x0710 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:51:44 -0700 (MST) Subject: AutoMeter (Aluminum or Platinum???) Anybody know what's up with AutoMeter and their seeming astronomical prices on some of their gauges? I asked about their electric fuel pressure gauges a while ago. I had wanted one for tuning my turbo install until I found out they were $180. So, I passed and may end up getting one of the Intellitronix ones though. Kinda bites though as I really like the UltraLite series gauges and would prefer to keep mine all the same. So now I'm also looking for an EGT gauge. I had seen somewhere that they had these in the 2" UltraLite and Phantom series, but couldn't find a listing for them. So I called AutoMeter and yes, they do make them and I got the part numbers. Called Summit to check on price and availability. Yes they've got em. $101 for the EGT. Kinda high I think, but for an EGT gauge, maybe not. So feeling moderately gouged, I'm figureing I might as well get it because I really do want one. But, AutoMeter also said I need a thermocouple. So I have Summit check that. I'm expecting another $20 or so, but I'm willing to part with it. Guess what, it's $141.00!!! WTF is up with that? $141 for a thermocouple? What's with AutoMeter? $180 for an electric fuel pressure gauge. Around $250 for an EGT gauge. Do people actually pay these prices? Am I expecting too much for too little? Most of their other gauges seem reasonable, but these are so over priced I can't believe it. BTW, is a thermocouple a thermocouple a thermocouple? I mean are they like O2 sensors at all. Can I go find a cheap one from Wick's (I think I've seen them for under $20) or someplace else and expect it to work? thanks - --Dan ------------------------------ From: John Andrianakis Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:52:11 +0200 Subject: RE: Help! Need rpm activated switch w/ hysteresis!! You can build one yourself! Take a look at National Semiconductors web page. The datasheet for LM 2907/2917 has a couple of rpm activated switches with hysterisis. LM2917 is a frequency to voltage converter particularly suited to tachometer applications.Check it out. Regards, John Andrianakis. On Wednesday, March 10, 1999 8:38 AM, Jason [SMTP:srgnt03@xxx.net] wrote: > I need some help here, and soon. I have a variable geometry manifold > (Schrick VGi) that uses vacuum to open up an interior flap that changes > the runner geometry and thus the torque curve. It uses a controller, > two-way vacuum switch, and a vacuum tank. > > The controller has a ground, switched 12V+, an rpm signal tap from the > factory Bosch ECU, and a two pin connector that it uses to activate the > two-way vacuum switch (that's connected to a little diaphram that opens > the flap in the manifold). The controller has an adjustable rpm set > point for the rpm opening point (adjustable from 2K-6.3K rpm), and it > has an adjustable hysteresis setting from 0-200 rpm. The best torque is > made when the settings are 4K for the flap to open (short runners, high > hp up top), and a 50 rpm hysteresis (so it closes at 3950 rpm). Works > VERY well when all is functional. Rpm set points are made by DIP > switches (8 of them). Test mode will cycle the switch on/off (set all > DIP switches ot OFF), and turn the LED from green(closed flap) to red > (open flap, and back... > > The controller is done for. It will not even function in test mode. A > new one is $300. That's insane, for such a simple PCB. I tested ALL my > connections for continuity, and all check out. The wiring is sound, and > everything checks out. The controller will activate the two-way vacuum > switch as soon as it gets switched power. Regardless of rpm signal, or > set point. I looked at the PCB (encased in epoxy, except for the DIP > switches)and there appears to be a little discoloration or corrosion in > there. I'm an ME, not an EE...so I need a replacement controller. > > I looked at my Summit Racing catalog (pg. 119 & 126)and found a couple > rpm switches...but I don't think any of them have a hysteresis function. > The MSD one has a "low" and a "high", but that's it. I need something > that offers me adjustability from 3500-4500 rpm, with about a 50-100 rpm > hysteresis. I don't want to fab a PCB, I don't want to spend over $100, > and I need something soon. Without a controller, I have to choose > between low end torque, or high end power (by having the flap closed, or > open all the time). Drive-ability is less than perfect. > > So, does anybody know of an rpm switch that has an adjustable "on", but > also has a hysteresis setting too? Maybe I could get the MSD unit, and > set the "off" rpm set point lower than the "on" set point (an have a > negative overlap, making my own hysteresis)???? Thoughts? > > Jason > '93 VW Corrado VR6 w/ failing Schrick VGi controller!! ------------------------------ From: Daniel Ciobota Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:44:26 -0600 Subject: Re: AutoMeter (Aluminum or Platinum???) Dan, I feel your pain, man. I don't think you're expecting too much for too little, either. Autometer is definitely trying to act like microsoft lately. There is a sliver of hope, though. Cyberdyne advertises an electric fp gauge with sender for under $80; the downside, it's digital and looks a little cheesy, but fits the 2 1/16" holes, I think. Not sure which, Jegs or Summit carries it. As far as the egt, I don't know. Daniel d houlton x0710 wrote: > Anybody know what's up with AutoMeter and their seeming astronomical prices > on some of their gauges? > > I asked about their electric fuel pressure gauges a while ago. I had > wanted one for tuning my turbo install until I found out they were $180. > So, I passed and may end up getting one of the Intellitronix ones though. > > Kinda bites though as I really like the UltraLite series gauges and > would prefer to keep mine all the same. > > So now I'm also looking for an EGT gauge. I had seen somewhere that > they had these in the 2" UltraLite and Phantom series, but couldn't find > a listing for them. So I called AutoMeter and yes, they do make them and > I got the part numbers. Called Summit to check on price and availability. > > Yes they've got em. $101 for the EGT. Kinda high I think, but for an > EGT gauge, maybe not. So feeling moderately gouged, I'm figureing I might > as well get it because I really do want one. But, AutoMeter also said I > need a thermocouple. So I have Summit check that. I'm expecting another > $20 or so, but I'm willing to part with it. Guess what, it's $141.00!!! > WTF is up with that? $141 for a thermocouple? What's with AutoMeter? > > $180 for an electric fuel pressure gauge. Around $250 for an EGT gauge. > Do people actually pay these prices? Am I expecting too much for too > little? Most of their other gauges seem reasonable, but these are so > over priced I can't believe it. > > BTW, is a thermocouple a thermocouple a thermocouple? I mean are they > like O2 sensors at all. Can I go find a cheap one from Wick's (I think > I've seen them for under $20) or someplace else and expect it to work? > > thanks > --Dan ------------------------------ From: Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:53:10 -0600 Subject: RE: AutoMeter (Aluminum or Platinum???) This does seem high for a "K" type thermocouple. The kit might come with clamps and adapters to connect it to the manifold or pipe. A friend bought a unit for his snowmobile, dual indication that went for around $100 with 2 thermocouples. Replacement K type couples were $40. The bad news is that the extreme operating temps will cause failure, they might last a year they might not. The Dyno operators change them often. > -----Original Message----- > From: d houlton x0710 [SMTP:tc75918@xxx.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 1999 1:52 PM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: AutoMeter (Aluminum or Platinum???) > > Anybody know what's up with AutoMeter and their seeming astronomical > prices > on some of their gauges? > > I asked about their electric fuel pressure gauges a while ago. I had > wanted one for tuning my turbo install until I found out they were $180. > So, I passed and may end up getting one of the Intellitronix ones though. > > Kinda bites though as I really like the UltraLite series gauges and > would prefer to keep mine all the same. > > So now I'm also looking for an EGT gauge. I had seen somewhere that > they had these in the 2" UltraLite and Phantom series, but couldn't find > a listing for them. So I called AutoMeter and yes, they do make them and > I got the part numbers. Called Summit to check on price and availability. > > Yes they've got em. $101 for the EGT. Kinda high I think, but for an > EGT gauge, maybe not. So feeling moderately gouged, I'm figureing I might > as well get it because I really do want one. But, AutoMeter also said I > need a thermocouple. So I have Summit check that. I'm expecting another > $20 or so, but I'm willing to part with it. Guess what, it's $141.00!!! > WTF is up with that? $141 for a thermocouple? What's with AutoMeter? > > $180 for an electric fuel pressure gauge. Around $250 for an EGT gauge. > Do people actually pay these prices? Am I expecting too much for too > little? Most of their other gauges seem reasonable, but these are so > over priced I can't believe it. > > BTW, is a thermocouple a thermocouple a thermocouple? I mean are they > like O2 sensors at all. Can I go find a cheap one from Wick's (I think > I've seen them for under $20) or someplace else and expect it to work? > > thanks > --Dan ------------------------------ From: Roger Heflin Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:56:42 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: AutoMeter (Aluminum or Platinum???) On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Daniel Ciobota wrote: > Dan, > > I feel your pain, man. I don't think you're expecting too much for too > little, either. Autometer is definitely trying to act like microsoft lately. > There is a sliver of hope, though. Cyberdyne advertises an electric fp gauge > with sender for under $80; the downside, it's digital and looks a little > cheesy, but fits the 2 1/16" holes, I think. Not sure which, Jegs or Summit > carries it. As far as the egt, I don't know. > > Daniel > > > It was claimed on the f-body list that the cyberdyne gage responded too slow to fuel pressure changes, it was fast enough for a NA car but everyone with a blower seemed to believe it was too slow for a blower (or N2O). I do not know if the autometer gage is any better. Roger ------------------------------ From: "David Sagers" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:38:47 PST Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #153 I figure this would be about the best place to post this kind of request. I'm looking for A/C & Alt brackets and other accessory brackets for a Banks twin turbo system on a SBC. E-mail or call (801) 339-1499. Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Pat Ford Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:09:23 -0500 Subject: Re: AutoMeter (Aluminum or Platinum???) On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, d houlton x0710 wrote: > Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:51:44 -0700 (MST) > From: d houlton x0710 > To: EFI > Subject: AutoMeter (Aluminum or Platinum???) > > > BTW, is a thermocouple a thermocouple a thermocouple? I mean are they > like O2 sensors at all. Can I go find a cheap one from Wick's (I think > I've seen them for under $20) or someplace else and expect it to work? there are different kinds d and k and a few other types ( has to do wih the metals omega industries ( i forget the url ) use to have a table on their website > > thanks > --Dan > Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ From: Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:48:39 -0600 Subject: RE: AutoMeter (Aluminum or Platinum???) If you want to see really high prices omega has them > -----Original Message----- > From: Pat Ford [SMTP:pford@xxx.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 1999 3:09 PM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: AutoMeter (Aluminum or Platinum???) > > On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, d houlton x0710 wrote: > > > Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:51:44 -0700 (MST) > > From: d houlton x0710 > > To: EFI > > Subject: AutoMeter (Aluminum or Platinum???) > > > > > > BTW, is a thermocouple a thermocouple a thermocouple? I mean are they > > like O2 sensors at all. Can I go find a cheap one from Wick's (I think > > I've seen them for under $20) or someplace else and expect it to work? > > there are different kinds d and k and a few other types ( has to do wih > the metals omega industries ( i forget the url ) use to have a table on > their website > > > > > thanks > > --Dan > > > > Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com > QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com > (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews > (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:08:42 -0700 Subject: Re: AutoMeter (Aluminum or Platinum???) >Dan, > > I feel your pain, man. I don't think you're expecting too much for too >little, either. Autometer is definitely trying to act like microsoft lately. >There is a sliver of hope, though. Cyberdyne advertises an electric fp gauge >with sender for under $80; the downside, it's digital and looks a little >cheesy, but fits the 2 1/16" holes, I think. Not sure which, Jegs or Summit >carries it. As far as the egt, I don't know. > >Daniel Try Barry Grant for the EGT--dunno their price, but always good stuff there. Any T/C with the same letter code ("K" , for instance) will interchange. The letter code designates the metal pairing. The trick with EGT T/C probes is to combine RUGGED with low mass (for quick response). These two qualities may not happen in the same piece for cheap. Regards, Greg > > > >d houlton x0710 wrote: > >> Anybody know what's up with AutoMeter and their seeming astronomical prices >> on some of their gauges? >> >> I asked about their electric fuel pressure gauges a while ago. I had >> wanted one for tuning my turbo install until I found out they were $180. >> So, I passed and may end up getting one of the Intellitronix ones though. >> >> Kinda bites though as I really like the UltraLite series gauges and >> would prefer to keep mine all the same. >> >> So now I'm also looking for an EGT gauge. I had seen somewhere that >> they had these in the 2" UltraLite and Phantom series, but couldn't find >> a listing for them. So I called AutoMeter and yes, they do make them and >> I got the part numbers. Called Summit to check on price and availability. >> >> Yes they've got em. $101 for the EGT. Kinda high I think, but for an >> EGT gauge, maybe not. So feeling moderately gouged, I'm figureing I might >> as well get it because I really do want one. But, AutoMeter also said I >> need a thermocouple. So I have Summit check that. I'm expecting another >> $20 or so, but I'm willing to part with it. Guess what, it's $141.00!!! >> WTF is up with that? $141 for a thermocouple? What's with AutoMeter? >> >> $180 for an electric fuel pressure gauge. Around $250 for an EGT gauge. >> Do people actually pay these prices? Am I expecting too much for too >> little? Most of their other gauges seem reasonable, but these are so >> over priced I can't believe it. >> >> BTW, is a thermocouple a thermocouple a thermocouple? I mean are they >> like O2 sensors at all. Can I go find a cheap one from Wick's (I think >> I've seen them for under $20) or someplace else and expect it to work? >> >> thanks >> --Dan ------------------------------ From: "Falb, John" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:12:12 -0500 Subject: RE: AutoMeter (Aluminum or Platinum???) The digital readout intellitronix gauge is not recommended but they have a new one with a needle which should work much better. But time will tell. John Falb ------------------------------ From: "Jeray, Rick" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:17:35 -0600 Subject: RE: AutoMeter (Aluminum or Platinum???) I use the Cyberdyne gage, it does respond slow but its good enough to set up my TBI pressure. It displays 0-30 psi in .2 increments, might not be enough for MPI. Its digital and rectangular. -----Original Message----- From: Roger Heflin [SMTP:rah@xxx.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 1999 2:57 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: AutoMeter (Aluminum or Platinum???) On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Daniel Ciobota wrote: > Dan, > > I feel your pain, man. I don't think you're expecting too much for too > little, either. Autometer is definitely trying to act like microsoft lately. > There is a sliver of hope, though. Cyberdyne advertises an electric fp gauge > with sender for under $80; the downside, it's digital and looks a little > cheesy, but fits the 2 1/16" holes, I think. Not sure which, Jegs or Summit > carries it. As far as the egt, I don't know. > > Daniel > > > It was claimed on the f-body list that the cyberdyne gage responded too slow to fuel pressure changes, it was fast enough for a NA car but everyone with a blower seemed to believe it was too slow for a blower (or N2O). I do not know if the autometer gage is any better. Roger ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #156 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. 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