DIY_EFI Digest Sunday, 14 March 1999 Volume 04 : Number 170 In this issue: Re: Frederic Breitwieser/turbo discussion Re: How easy would it be to swap a 4L60e for a 4L80e Re: exhaust system idea Re: Electric water pumps (was) alt charging cont sw Re: exhaust system idea Re: exhaust system idea Re: Electric water pumps (was) alt charging cont sw Re: <280> Master Cylinder upgrade questions Re: exhaust system idea Re: exhaust system idea Re: exhaust system idea Re: exhaust system idea Re: 4 cyl big block! Re: Frederic Breitwieser/turbo discussion Re: Bosch pump # Re: exhaust system idea RE: Fuel tuning... Re: exhaust system idea Re: 4 cyl big block! Re: exhaust system idea Re: Frederic Breitwieser/turbo discussion O2 sensor Holley 4tbi to 7747 RE: Limited-prod car maker (EPA 75?) More stuff on swapping a 4L60e for a 4L80e Re: Bosch Fuel Pump Re: Bosch pump # Re: Electric water pumps (was) alt charging cont sw See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Aaron Willis Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:43:46 -0800 Subject: Re: Frederic Breitwieser/turbo discussion At 03:47 PM 3/14/99 -0500, you wrote: >Yes, please have the turbo discussion on the list, or at least include my >address in any off list discussions. I'll second that! Aaron Willis ------------------------------ From: "Peter D. Hipson" Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:27:26 -0500 Subject: Re: How easy would it be to swap a 4L60e for a 4L80e As best as I can tell... At 11:05 AM 3/13/99 -0700, you wrote: >There are many differences between the 4L60E and the 4L80E. > >The main electrical connector that interconnects the engine wiring harness >to the transmission is not the same and there are different numbers of wires >used (I don't know what they are all used for). I'd believe that! If someone can tell me what's in the 4L60E, I can compare with the 4L80E. > >There are two different PCM's that control the 4L80E. One comes on the >diesel engines and the other for the gas engines. Yes, and there is a third PCM for turbo diesels, too! Each is (totally) different and not interchangable. As well, there are two (at least) 4L80E transmissions, the early and the late models. The TCM/PCM is different for each, so that makes about five different TCM/PCM combinations! >I'm not sure whether there >are differences internally within the transmission for these two >applications that might also need to be considered when looking for a >transmission. > >The 4L80E uses a different flywheel and torque converter. I'm not sure >whether the crankshaft end would need to be reworked to mate to the 4L80E. I believe the flex-plate is compatible, but if nto that is a minor expense considering the cost of the tranny--for diesels, I can get them for about $25 (used). > >The transmissions are different lengths which would necessitate a change of >your drive shaft. And probably rear mounting bracket, too. > >I have read of people that have done the swap successfully, so with enough >knowledge, time, and money, you can have a 4L80E which is a much stronger >transmission. And I would guess that it would ultimately be cheaper for you >to swap out to a 4L80E transmission rather than to keep paying for a >transmission rebuild every so often. I'm sure a swap is a good idea. I'd contact JET and see what they have for kits--they sell a complete kit, TCM, 4L80E, harness, etc. Might be just the trick to get you going. >Good luck, >Brent Wiscombe >bwiscombe@xxx.com >Mesa, AZ > > > >_______________________ > >-----Original Message----- >From: Doug Bazarnic >Date: Saturday, March 13, 1999 1:36 AM >Subject: How easy would it be to swap a 4L60e for a 4L80e > > >>I just broke the input hub / shaft assembly for the second time on my '95 >>Chevy 1/2 ton truck. It keeps blowing out the aluminum lugs that retain >>the snap ring for 3rd gear. I do have extra ponies under the hood, but I >>don't see how the extra power would be causing this problem. (It's 355 >>cubic inches, B&M blower, Air Flow Research Heads, large roller cam, Cola >>Crank, Ross Racing Pistons, Eagle Rods, etc etc) The truck only runs in >>the low 14's, but this tranny breakage is nuts. >> >>The truck has a total of 42,000 miles on it and I've broken an Art Carr 10" >>Torque Converter, and the aluminum input hub/shaft twice now. The aluminum >>hub is a cast piece of sh*t, and it's teeth that hold the snap ring in >>place leave. This last hub (which was brand new from GM and about 6 months >>old) lasted less than 8,000 miles. Either I'm putting too much thru this >>tranny, or it's a real piece of crap. >> >>Ohh, and by the way, I drive it like it was a Corvette on a road course! >>It weighs in at 3944 lbs. >> >>So the $100 question is: How easy would it be to swap the 4l60e vs the >>4l80e. Can the stock computer talk to a 4l80e without any probs? I've >>got the mastertune software that lets me change what ever I want, so shift >>points / line pressure wouldn't be a problem, if the stock computer can do >>it. Also, are the wiring harness connectors the same? >> >>Thanks, >> >>Doug Bazarnic >> >>P.s. If anyone is interested in my calibrations / chip sw, lemme know, as >>I'd be happy to share. >> >> >> >> > > > > > Thanks, Peter Hipson (founder, NEHOG) 1995 White NA Hummer Wagon ------------------------------ From: James Weiler Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:48:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: exhaust system idea Thank you jim!! Yes that's what I meant, but perhaps a second pipe with no muffler was not such a great idea sue to legall issues. So I suggest a partial muffler instead of none. This gives the benefit of variable back presure for optimal flow rates at various RPMs. Anybody got a good refrence for muffler design? thanks, jw On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, Jim Yeagley wrote: > Wasn't the original question about the concept of a variable back pressure > exhaust system? I think the idea is great, low to mid rpm gets more > backpressure, then as rpm's increase, backpressure decreases to none. > That's where the open pipe idea came from. > > If this idea were coupled with a variable valve timing setup, it would allow > the best performance through all rpm ranges. Of course, it's all shooting > from the hip theories! > > Jim Yeagley > 1996 Dodge Indy Ram > See it and many others at: www.indyram.org > 1975 Pontiac Grandville Brougham Conv. (in baskets) > webmaster@xxx.org > jimyeagley@xxx.net > > > > ------------------------------ From: "Gary Derian" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:39:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Electric water pumps (was) alt charging cont sw Good points on cooling, Greg. There is no need for an electric power steering pump, TRW has already designed electric power steering two ways. One with a motor on the steering shaft and another with a motor and ball screw directly on the rack. Peak current draw is high but of short duration. Gary Derian >For the power steering pump, I suspect that a variable displacement, vane >type pump (or swash plate type variable displacement pump, if you wish) >would give the variability you want for less weight, more simplicity, and >greater overall efficiency than an electric drive. > ------------------------------ From: Benjamin Marsh Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:34:13 +1100 (EST) Subject: Re: exhaust system idea BTW if you use the turbos as mufflers, do you have a cat or not?? Ben On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, Greg Hermann wrote: > >> read it at www.vfaq.com/BADSM/CHP-Exhaust.html ) > >> > >> "Section 27150 requires that every motor vehicle subject to registration be > >> equipped with an adequate muffler- There are no exceptions -- all vehicles > >> must be equipped with a muffler as defined in Section 425 VC. A turbocharger > >> is not considered a muffler. " > > Key word in this is "adequate"--If you are quiet enough, it must be "adequate". > > Greg > > > > > >some of the industral turbos have muffler cast into the ex impeller housing > > > >Clive > >> > >> Sorry dude, at least as far as california is concerned your turbos are not > >> mufflers even if they act to muffle the exhaust. > >> > >> Soren > >> > >> > > ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:37:29 -0700 Subject: Re: exhaust system idea >Wasn't the original question about the concept of a variable back pressure >exhaust system? I think the idea is great, low to mid rpm gets more >backpressure, then as rpm's increase, backpressure decreases to none. >That's where the open pipe idea came from. > >If this idea were coupled with a variable valve timing setup, it would allow >the best performance through all rpm ranges. Of course, it's all shooting >from the hip theories! Your exhaust back pressure will vary with the square of the mass flow in the exhaust system anyway-- so at, say 2500 rpm, WOT, you will only have maybe 30% of the backpressure you would see at WOT 5000 rpm with a regular system. Greg > >Jim Yeagley >1996 Dodge Indy Ram >See it and many others at: www.indyram.org >1975 Pontiac Grandville Brougham Conv. (in baskets) >webmaster@xxx.org >jimyeagley@xxx.net ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:04:15 -0700 Subject: Re: Electric water pumps (was) alt charging cont sw >Good points on cooling, Greg. There is no need for an electric power >steering pump, TRW has already designed electric power steering two ways. >One with a motor on the steering shaft and another with a motor and ball >screw directly on the rack. Peak current draw is high but of short >duration. > >Gary Derian I can't help but feel like these units would be about equally inclined to go into meltdown in "difficult" situations as an electric powered winch is when you work it hard on a 4x4! I prefer hydraulic or PTO driven winches, and think that I would always opt for hydraulic on the power steering, too. The "power density" with hydraulics is just tremendously higher. Since there is no real load on the pump when the servo valve is not asking it to do anything, I really think that a variable disp. pump is not necessary. However--reducing the servo multiplication on power steering with higher vehicle speeds is another story. This is VERY worthwhile! Regards, Greg > >>For the power steering pump, I suspect that a variable displacement, vane >>type pump (or swash plate type variable displacement pump, if you wish) >>would give the variability you want for less weight, more simplicity, and >>greater overall efficiency than an electric drive. >> ------------------------------ From: David Piper Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:04:48 -0500 Subject: Re: <280> Master Cylinder upgrade questions I have the ArizZ brakes both Fand R w/adj prop valve and large 1.75" F pistons in order to get F/R bias. It has always had a spongy pedal. I have the 280ZX master w/ 15/16" dia pistons. Changing the booster had no effect. What is that larger master you refer to? Other suggestions? Thanks TurboDave At 10:56 PM 3/13/99 -0600, you wrote: > >If the pedal goes to the floor you need a master.. not a booster >the answers to your questions are NO, no and no. >the 300 bolt pattern is opposite to the Z- horizontal not vertical >when your ready for really big brakes i'll tell you about a master that >bolts in and is BIG. >with the measly toyota front brakes you shouldn't need the larger >master- assuming you didn't do the vented rotor conversion. > >-- >Mike Gibson >71 240 convertible, GT4 510, and others >99 F350 tow vehicle >check out the pics at >http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Flats/8244/ > > > > ------------------------------ From: goodall@xxx.com (Colin Goodall) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:26:58 -0500 Subject: Re: exhaust system idea Hello All: I've been lurking on the list for a bit and noticed this message. >Wasn't the original question about the concept of a variable back pressure >exhaust system? I think the idea is great, low to mid rpm gets more >backpressure, then as rpm's increase, backpressure decreases to none. >That's where the open pipe idea came from. > >If this idea were coupled with a variable valve timing setup, it would allow >the best performance through all rpm ranges. Of course, it's all shooting >from the hip theories! Actually this is all quite reasonable. Yamaha's sport bikes for several years have used a mechanism to do just this. It's called EXUP. Colin ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 17:00:00 -0700 Subject: Re: exhaust system idea >BTW if you use the turbos as mufflers, do you have a cat or not?? >Ben > >On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, Greg Hermann wrote: > >> >> read it at www.vfaq.com/BADSM/CHP-Exhaust.html ) >> >> >> >> "Section 27150 requires that every motor vehicle subject to >>registration be >> >> equipped with an adequate muffler- There are no exceptions -- all vehicles >> >> must be equipped with a muffler as defined in Section 425 VC. A >>turbocharger >> >> is not considered a muffler. " >> >> Key word in this is "adequate"--If you are quiet enough, it must be >>"adequate". >> >> Greg >> > >> > >> >some of the industral turbos have muffler cast into the ex impeller housing >> > >> >Clive >> >> >> >> Sorry dude, at least as far as california is concerned your turbos are not >> >> mufflers even if they act to muffle the exhaust. >> >> >> >> Soren I understood that--but as long as there is something there that looks like a muffler, and it is quiet enough, the doughnuts will be of more significance! Remember-- DARE = Doughnut Assisted Rotundity Expansion!! Greg >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ From: "David A. Cooley" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:17:40 -0500 Subject: Re: exhaust system idea At 05:00 PM 3/14/99 -0700, you wrote: >>BTW if you use the turbos as mufflers, do you have a cat or not?? check this out... Drivers of vehicles should not be cited for violation of either Section 27150 or 27151 VC unless the officer has personally listened to the vehicle in operation. This can be either under actual driving conditions or with the vehicle stationary and the engine running. Even if the officer has inspected the exhaust system and does not see a muffler present, the officer should listen to the vehicle. The purpose of this is to be sure that the exhaust system does not incorporate internally baffled pipes or other components that meet the definition of a muffler. There are no specifications which state required configurations or minimum dimensions for mufflers. A vehicle that does not visually appear to be equipped with a muffler, but does not emit excessive noise, should be deemed to comply with Sections 27150 and 27151 VC. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:07:08 +0000 Subject: Re: exhaust system idea > BTW if you use the turbos as mufflers, do you have a cat or not?? If your vehicle year/state/DMV requires cats, run cats. If not, leave 'em off. Cats, while they do in fact reduce pollution, the do in fact increase backpressure. - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.xephic.dynip.com 1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental 1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab (soon to be twin turbo 440) 2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) ------------------------------ From: AL8001@xxx.com Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:14:54 EST Subject: Re: 4 cyl big block! In a message dated 99-03-14 11:17:20 EST, steve.ravet@xxx.com writes: >So, I was crawling around my boat ('81 Phantom I/O) w/ Mercruiser trying >to find out what kind of motor is in there to give me some hints on >converting to EFI. I found a casting number on the head, D3VE-A2A. >Tried looking it up in altavista and guess what? I've got a Ford big >block in there! Don't know how they got 460 CID out of just 4 >cylinders. Or maybe I just missed the other 4 cylinders. > > Ford made many industrial spec engines, could be from a forklift, tractor, etc. Look in a sealed power engine parts book for engine family info. Harold ------------------------------ From: Clarence Wood Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:31:59 -0600 Subject: Re: Frederic Breitwieser/turbo discussion I third, or fourth the motion! At 03:47 PM 3/14/99 -0500, you wrote: >Yes, please have the turbo discussion on the list, or at least include my >address in any off list discussions. > >Jim Yeagley >1996 Dodge Indy Ram >See it and many others at: www.indyram.org >1975 Pontiac Grandville Brougham Conv. (in baskets) >webmaster@xxx.org >jimyeagley@xxx.net > > > > IZCC #3426 1982 280ZX Turbo GL 1966 El Camino 1982 Yamaha Maxim XJ-1101J Motorcycle 1975 Honda CB750 SS (black engine) 1986 Snapper Comet lawn mower Clarence Wood Software&Such... clarencewood@xxx.net Savannah, TN. ------------------------------ From: "Walter Sherwin" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:18:38 -0800 Subject: Re: Bosch pump # >Does anyone have numbers for big Bosch pumps?? something that will handle >550-600 Hp?? I have a place to buy them but no specifications except make, >year and model... HELP.. > >TIA Tom > The largest capacity generic Bosch electric fuel pump is 0 580 254 984 (also known as GFP 216). It can be used either as an "external-to-tank" pump, or as an "internal-to-tank" pump. The inlet is approximately .5" diameter, and is shaped as a slip-over hose nipple. The outlet is a 12mm female thread, and houses an integral check valve. Most hydraulic shops carry adapters which will screw into the outlet, and adapt the 12mm/copper washer seal to something like a 6AN or 8AN hose fitting seal. At 12 volts, the pump flows 57 GPH(US) at 10 psig and 6 amps, falling to 37 GPH(US) at 100psig and 13 amps. In between these two points the curve is almost a straight line. There are other part numbers which share the same rollervane "pumping cell", and will flow similar capacities, but they introduce idiosyncrasies associated with their OE hookups and packaging requirements. Part number 0 580 254 023 is one such offshoot, that has an integral "open filter bottom". This in-tank pump can double as a pump/filter combo unit. However, the filter screen area is small (flat screen 60mm diameter, by 70microns fine), and CAN plug prematurely unless you either place a filter screen in the vehicle's fuel filler neck, or maintain a very clean fuel system. Hope that helped; Walt. ------------------------------ From: Tom Sharpe Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:36:44 -0600 Subject: Re: exhaust system idea Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > Called cutouts, usually illegal. > > If ya get caught with them it goes on your permanent file.. > > Some cops judges really don't like em. > > As you can see from my tagline, I still firmly believe the > best mufflers are a pair of properly sized turbochargers :) I agree, I ran around town with open exhaust on my T04B 350 chevy with no problems, just keep off the loud pedal. It sounded like a 59 Pontiac in heat if you stepped down too hard. Tom S ------------------------------ From: Marc Piccioni Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:37:17 -0700 Subject: RE: Fuel tuning... If you are having trouble getting the plugs to colour on street gas the you might want to try draining the tank and put say 5 gal's. of VP 100 unleaded in it. Then make your hard runs. - ---------- From: Bruce Plecan[SMTP:nacelp@xxx.net] Sent: March 14, 1999 12:14 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: Fuel tuning... - -----Original Message----- From: David A. Cooley To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 12:52 PM Subject: Re: Fuel tuning... Not have to be new. Pull a couple easy ones and see where your at. If evenly bone white, as compared to pure white, ya prolly can use those. Time ain't as important as load. So 15 secs in high gear, better than 15 secs from a stand still. This is a street machine, so you don't have to be as good as a NASCAR team. Quick braking to idle/stop, fine. If the plug has a different color then when you started you getting some reading. Using new plugs with the current fuels are/can be really hard to read, sometimes ya gotta put some miles on em for a good base for things to stick to. Bruce >Guess I need to throw a new set of plugs in and do a high speed run and see >what they say! >How long of a high speed blast would be optimum for a plug read? >>Subject: Re: Fuel tuning... >>No, the oem gm O2 sensor in you car is not temperature compensated. >>Period.. So the reading change by EGT. This is not the proper way to do >>it. >>Bruce begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@8"`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`& !```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&$`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S M,BYE;F``,P`0`` M`"(```!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S,BYE;F5]E9FE 969I,S,R+F5N9RYO M:&EO+7-T871E+F5D=2<``@$+, $````G````4TU44#I$25E?149)0$5&23,S M,BY%3D`' ``0```!,```!213H@1G5E;"!T=6YI;F)S=&5M`H,SMP+D!Q,"@S02S!3%?0J BPC/"=D[ M%Y\R-34"@ <*@0VQ"V!N9S$P,R\44 L*%%$+\F,`0"!)*&8@>0A@( K 92!% M$8!V"X!G('0#8'6K`F =$&<1P'0=8V@=$(D+4'5G!"!T;R 7$G4(<" "(" 3 MP G1!4!G#F$?(1ZQ'+)M:6=H/05 =P!P!4 ?01V@>2"<9'(+<1YF`9!N:QS@ ME&YD'M!U!4!S82) PC4@xxx.@"X E M\'0DL.Y4'K #H # :R#C!< 1@3TCH'(E<"2@"H4*BVQI##$X)4 "`&DM,32> M- WP#- IXPM9,38*H.L#8!/08P5 +2P'"HP8QT04!WP8P$`<%M33510.F[!`-!E;'! 8@40(6'T+FX1P%TLKRV]!F " M,#LN[R_[30K $7 E(#0LS24@xxx.BG@,1!F33,/+;U4;S5/+_MDR&EY M7PW :4 \T1K@!#(N"?!G+F]H:31O+1/ 81/0/7!D=7'=!J*\$ZOR_[ M4MIE01!&"E #('0E0) `>("Q:+J1$'4$CH"Y!)+ (4 ;P92) /&XP-7AM=#) ,A!L<_<(8!Z@ M,K(^"H4ZDCR?/:[_2N!,_SVN3#9)\!/001! H,\CD"00-Z W+SHU$> X=_= MIT+_1 U.*Z =(B,1'U"U2V @,L!W)+ Q$'5+@+L1(X(1L!T0=QZP'0'?)Q,^,%@A'( *A6578"6 WR) !N RP%I!)C!E-Z @ MD?T%H&T*L271'T$CP!T!7*7^>5B@*X%+@") ,5$E8!&P?1Z1;Q&P6"$'8@J% M"W$G]P5 ()$'<' 702&R()$7,&LEL%@A4Q]0,21 $;!C_G,*A28!/= A8!X1 M"L WH+]+8 ) !) >D0.18Q4@`U+_6)$^$5GB'E!+@& R/=!A@?]9L2 %"H4` MP3W0,L WH$N@xxx.@()%8H$Y!4T-!%E(=D"6@;5@A M475I7F,C8#)0)M =8V]CAF3E'? O$\!O<#>@*; RP/];(QZ7'2%GPD\@#=!: M<0(P_PJ%%Q,>D@xxx.@6E$#H!RR/A'_`" ET1RR'B9+H > )Z EH?=5P@J%6#!5 M`) =<5?Q'M7W`_ >H!Z38PAP<))F`%51^UFQ%Z O7V)7P7017R(G8_L?0702 M+ J%<\(>4 >"7L'_:Q "0%[1(])STB% '? $(+\?X1/@9@`%L7JB:S%B()#_ M'1!\@'J)O?$%G9D!/$>#_$; `@ 6Q)@$(%>P(D#X14=4 M9SF2$QZR`V"2@?\AD2) 'T%IT(S7)C&,UW^_=YKN1/\51#(2L$:=%L$``9\@ M```#`! 0``````,`$1 `````0 `',(!JB&B,;KX!0 `(,(!JB&B,;KX!'@`] 3``$````%````4D4Z( ````#4(0`' ` end ------------------------------ From: Tom Sharpe Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:45:52 -0600 Subject: Re: exhaust system idea David A. Cooley wrote: > The purpose of this is to be sure that the exhaust system does not incorporate > > internally baffled pipes or other components that meet the definition of > a muffler. There are no specifications which state required > configurations or minimum dimensions for mufflers. A vehicle that does not > visually appear to be equipped with a muffler, but does not emit excessive > noise, should be deemed to comply with Sections 27150 and 27151 VC. True, but from personal experience a 70 LS6 454 Chevelle with factory installed chambered exhaust (no mufflers) will not pass any decible or ear test here in Illinois. They are really loud. Tom ------------------------------ From: Tom Sharpe Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:08:46 -0600 Subject: Re: 4 cyl big block! > I found a casting number on the head, D3VE-A2A. > D0OE-R ( SCJ 429) or a D0VE-xxx 1970 460 head FYI - The first char "D" is decade, the second is year, ie C7xx = '67 D3xx='73, E8xx = '88, F5xx = '95 etc. Model year part was first released. ------------------------------ From: "xwiredtva@xxx.com> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:16:56 -0500 Subject: Re: exhaust system idea DG Performance makes this type of muffler for 2 stroke Motocross bikes. If you call and ask for a brochure or visit your local motorcycle shop they may have the cutaway. Uses a spring and a metal valve mounted into the middle of the muffler. As rpm's increase it pushes the metal disc back opening up the muffler to a wider chamber were the exhaust can easily go around. I'm sure it can be done for your applications and improved somewhat. I ran it when I raced and it gave better low end but the top end was still the same. >Wasn't the original question about the concept of a variable back pressure >exhaust system? I think the idea is great, low to mid rpm gets more >backpressure, then as rpm's increase, backpressure decreases to none. >That's where the open pipe idea came from. > >If this idea were coupled with a variable valve timing setup, it would allow >the best performance through all rpm ranges. Of course, it's all shooting >from the hip theories! > >Jim Yeagley >1996 Dodge Indy Ram >See it and many others at: www.indyram.org >1975 Pontiac Grandville Brougham Conv. (in baskets) >webmaster@xxx.org >jimyeagley@xxx.net > > > > ------------------------------ From: "xwiredtva@xxx.com> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:22:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Frederic Breitwieser/turbo discussion Ok, It doesn't concern FI for me though. I asked what would be needed to convert a 1.3L Suzuki CAR engine to turbo running a CR ratio of 8.9:1 and a Weber carb (FI cost too much for a truck I may roll and be done with). I also asked about the oil coolers, mount before or after and can I use the engine oil to cool the turbo where the coolant is designed to run with a secondary cooler mounted before it and will that effect the block too much to be feasable. I'm not worried too much about the exhaust manifold or stuff other than that just the basic facts like can this carb take it, is the CR ratio too high, and keeping the turbo cool. Searching the turbo route for more low end grunt. >Yes, please have the turbo discussion on the list, or at least include my >address in any off list discussions. > >Jim Yeagley >1996 Dodge Indy Ram >See it and many others at: www.indyram.org >1975 Pontiac Grandville Brougham Conv. (in baskets) >webmaster@xxx.org >jimyeagley@xxx.net > > > > ------------------------------ From: cwagner@xxx.net Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:23:32 -0700 Subject: O2 sensor I have a question about how to tell when the computer is in closed loop mode when a person doesn't have a scan tool. I built one of the O2 sensor gauges using the LM3914 chip. What should I be looking for to tell when closed loop is on? From what I have read, I should see the gauge fluctuating several times a second (or as close as the eye can tell). Also, with the O2 sensor disconnected from the computer, the O2 sensor does not send a voltage during idle even though it is a heated sensor. I find this interesting. ------------------------------ From: cwagner@xxx.net Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:23:32 -0700 Subject: Holley 4tbi to 7747 Here is probably a simple question, but here we go. How would a person go about adapting a Holley 4 barrel throttle body injection(just the throttle body) to a 7747 computer? Would the computer be enough to run the four injectors? I know Howell does something like this but want to do it my self. ------------------------------ From: Chris Conlon Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:45:35 -0500 Subject: RE: Limited-prod car maker (EPA 75?) At 02:19 PM 3/5/99 -0800, Ward Spoonemore wrote: >Of course you can sign up as a limited production car maker and start out >with EPA 75 emissions testing, shed test etc. The EPA 75's are $750 a pop. Could you please say a bit more about this, maybe toss out a URL or something? I'd like to buy a modded car which has reasonably clean emissions, but which won't pass a strict visual test, which we have here. It might be worth $750 to me to be able to register it here... (Not to mention I have a real bad attitude about cars which are squeaky clean out the tailpipe and gas tank failing due to visual tests or "allowed" mods. So much so that it'd be worth $$$ to me just to have such a car be fully legal.) Chris C. ------------------------------ From: Doug Bazarnic Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:43:18 -0700 Subject: More stuff on swapping a 4L60e for a 4L80e I've got my tranny rebuilt and installed by around 3 o'clock Sunday afternoon. $298 in parts and about a day and a half labor. What a pain in the butt! >>The main electrical connector that interconnects the engine wiring harness >>to the transmission is not the same and there are different numbers of wires >>used (I don't know what they are all used for). After reading the service manual, the main electrical connector on both trannys is the same. However, the 4L60E has 2 more wires than the 4L80E. (The connector has lots of empty pin holes) The 4L80E also has a secondary speed sensor unit, which would require running two wires up to the computer, that my wiring harness doesn't have. >>There are two different PCM's that control the 4L80E. One comes on the >>diesel engines and the other for the gas engines. > >Yes, and there is a third PCM for turbo diesels, too! Each is (totally) >different and not interchangable. As well, there are two (at least) 4L80E >transmissions, the early and the late models. The TCM/PCM is different for >each, so that makes about five different TCM/PCM combinations! That was my next question. After comparing pinouts on the 4L80E equipped computer vs my 4L60E equppied computer, the 4L80E has perhaps 2 wires different, and the addition of 2 more, where my harness has "empty" spots on the connector. So, are the computers really different, or do they just not hook up the wires that would go to it? I know the calpak would be different, and perhaps that's the only difference?!? Would they really make different computers for such a slight change and not enable/disable via sw? >>The 4L80E uses a different flywheel and torque converter. I'm not sure >>whether the crankshaft end would need to be reworked to mate to the 4L80E. The 4L80E would require a different torque converter from my 4L60E, but that's not a problem, as I don't use the stock converter anyway and would buy a higher stall after market unit. The flexplate is engine dependent and not tranny dependent. I'm not running the one piece real seal crank/block anyway, but a gorgeous Cola Crank with a 4 bolt splayed cap block. >>The transmissions are different lengths which would necessitate a change of >>your drive shaft. > >And probably rear mounting bracket, too. The hardware to mount the tranny is of little concern as I consider that the easy part. I'm just worried about the computer crap. Mainly because I've gone thru about 150 eprom burns to get my engine dialed in to my liking. >>I have read of people that have done the swap successfully, so with enough >>knowledge, time, and money, you can have a 4L80E which is a much stronger >>transmission. And I would guess that it would ultimately be cheaper for you >>to swap out to a 4L80E transmission rather than to keep paying for a >>transmission rebuild every so often. I would rather have beefy parts, rather than one that lasts a year. I found my old receipts and the last tranny build I had to do was on April 4th. Almost 1 year. If you guys would like me to take some pictures of the parts that failed, and the clutch size differences, I think you'd be amazed at what a piece of crap the 4L60e is. The 4L60e should NOT be in a 1/2 ton truck -- maybe a S10 or camaro, but defintely not in something heavy. As far as the costs for rebuild, all I have to pay for are the parts, as I do the rebuilds myself. (Which is both good and bad sometimes -- good on the wallet, bad as a pain in my ass! :) >I'm sure a swap is a good idea. I'd contact JET and see what they have for >kits--they sell a complete kit, TCM, 4L80E, harness, etc. Might be just the >trick to get you going. I'm not sure how I could fool my stock computer into thinking there's no tranny hooked up if I were to use an aftermarket kit. If I have to buy a new computer, I'd assume I'd want one for a '95 with a 350 and a 4L80e. My current chip code was BJYM. I have massive changes to the engine management part that I'd hate to do over. So, is it possible to copy the engine calibration stuff over to a new chip via a range of eprom addresses, and merge it with the tranny stuff? Some people have asked my for my BJYM code, and I'd be more than happy to share it. I can also post my current code that I'm running with my engine setup. I've done all my mods thru MasterTune software that's supposedly specific to my chip, so I don't know how/what/where to modify stuff in hex for different chips. Is there a master list somewhere that somone has compiled with hex addresses so I know where to put stuff? Also, when I've tried editing in the past, the chip wont run as I don't know how to compute the checksum -- so I loaded my hex edited file in MasterTune and resaved it and it computed the checksum for me. If anybody knows how to "hack" MasterTune to see if it will really do all chips or what, I'd sure appreciate it. The software is in two parts, engine and tranny. Before the sw can be used to look at your chip, you must first put a "secret" code into your .bin file, as well as know the secret 4 digit password, which makes for a pain in the ass when you haven't used the sw in 6 months. Finding the original BJYM code will be a task, but I can upload my current config asap -- just tell me where. Also, not sure if I should post the MasterTune sw or not? (good/bad?) I paid nearly $600 for it, and if someone could help modify it so it will do 4L80e stuff, I'd be more than happy to upload it. Thanks for all your help, Doug Bazarnic ------------------------------ From: "Mike Pilkenton" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:46:44 -0800 Subject: Re: Bosch Fuel Pump Nope, you don't understand. I'm transplanting the V6 into a 72 Opel GT which has no in-tank pump. To use the stock Camaro in-tank pump would require heavty modification of the tank and sending unit; an in-line version of the pump would be much more convenient. Mike Pilkenton - -----Original Message----- From: Gary Derian To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Saturday, March 13, 1999 3:16 PM Subject: Re: Bosch Fuel Pump >If you already have an in tank pump, just replace it with the correct >version for your new engine. > >Gary Derian > > >>I'd be interested in your flow analysis Bob. I'm desperately looking for >an >>in-line fuel pump to use on my 3.1L GM V6 motor. Nothing high performance >>but with my engine transplant project, I can't use a stock tank pump. This >>Bosch pump sounds like it might work great. >> >>Mike P. >> > > ------------------------------ From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:06:52 -0700 Subject: Re: Bosch pump # >>Does anyone have numbers for big Bosch pumps?? something that will handle >>550-600 Hp?? I have a place to buy them but no specifications except make, >>year and model... HELP.. >> >>TIA Tom >> Kinsler has some of the BIG Bosch's, Tom. Greg ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:37:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Electric water pumps (was) alt charging cont sw Greg Hermann wrote: > > >> For any sizable auxiliary drive loads, a mechanical drive is way more > >> efficient than an electrical one. > >> > >> Regards, Greg > > > >But, isn't it inefficient to spin all those things at engine RPM rather > >than a constant RPM? Seems like a pump/compressor that has to work over > >a 10:1 input speed ratio wouldn't be as efficient as one designed to > >work at a constant RPM. Like A/C, and esp power steering. If those > >were designed to run w/electric drive at constant RPM maybe they'd be > >more efficient. Especially if you had a dual voltage alternator and ran > >the accessories at 100V 3phase. maybe? > > > For the power steering pump, I suspect that a variable displacement, vane > type pump (or swash plate type variable displacement pump, if you wish) > would give the variability you want for less weight, more simplicity, and > greater overall efficiency than an electric drive. > > There are variable displacement refrigeration compressors available > (usually screw type), GM uses V5 variable displacement compressor on many late model cars. Also, 96+ GM pickups use PWM controlled bypass solenoid on PS pump, full assist at low vehicle speeds, none at high speeds, electrical failure causes full assist at all times. Shannen > but, and this one is based on having done some > serious refrigeration design work, I think the simplest solution to the AC > compressor would be to run a regulator valve on the suction line (known as > an evaporator pressure regulator in the trade). One of these valves gives > you modulating control over the compressor capacity, rather than just > bang-bang, on/off control, just by letting the low side pressure to the > compressor drop well below the pressure in the evaporator (thus reducing > the compressor's VE. under light load and/or high compressor speed > conditions) > > > >--steve > > > >-- > >Steve Ravet > >ARM, INC > >steve.ravet@xxx.com > >www.arm.com ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #170 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".