DIY_EFI Digest Tuesday, 16 March 1999 Volume 04 : Number 174 In this issue: Re: Holley 4tbi to 7747 Re: Frederic Breitwieser/turbo discussion Re: Frederic Breitwieser/turbo discussion Re: BJYM and my modified BJYM is now online RE: Off Panhard bar Re: 4cyl big block Re: Frederic Breitwieser/turbo discussion Re: exhaust system idea Re: exhaust system idea Re: Re: turbo discussion RE: O2 sensor DIY-EFI References Re: Frederic Breitwieser/turbo discussion Re: [Fwd: [J] MUST READ! GREATEST FLAME ON EARTH!] Re: O2 sensor Turbo calibration for 727 Re: Bosch Fuel Pump Re: DIY-EFI References Re: [Fwd: [J] MUST READ! GREATEST FLAME ON EARTH!] See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:39:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Holley 4tbi to 7747 - -----Original Message----- From: Walter Sherwin To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 5:27 PM Subject: Re: Holley 4tbi to 7747 They just wire the injectors in 2 groups of 2. Take and wire two in series, consider that as one injector. I tried something similiar to this using Saturated Injectors, and the low speed response just fell apart. If I were you, I'd look at a ecm meant for running 4 Peak, and Hold Injectors. The 1227749 is one such ecm, and there is a bunch of info about it at the www.syty.org site Cheers Bruce >Andy, can you expand a bit on how (electrically) you have hooked your >Holley 4TBI to the 7730. Directly to the computer, or via an external >driver box? Or, if you prefer, drop me a line, offline. I'm knee-deep in >the same thing right now. > >Walt. > > > >>Well i happen to know how they get a 7730 hooked up to the 4bbl TBI. >>I also happen to have an eprom from just such a combination! >> >>Andy > > ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:43:08 +0000 Subject: Re: Frederic Breitwieser/turbo discussion > This makes a lot of sense! It does in practical application. I have some experience with the Haltech Electromotives, but even though I'm slowly being labled as "the turbo guy" its not with OEM stuff, that's for sure. I'm sooooo green in that area. But I'm learning fast. > Uh, (picking up jaw from floor) wow. And it was all junkyard parts, all except the wiseco pistons and the appropriate pins, and the EFI controller. Everything else was junkyard parts, magnifluxed, machined, etc, but still junkyard parts. See, not always, but if I can coerce certain friends to participate, I have access to nasty machining equipment with minimal/no cost, so that's where I saved bundles. > Sounds like a lot of fun to me! (Large sh** eating grin!, Don't think > there's an emoticon for that one) Oh, okay, no emotion at all :) - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.xephic.dynip.com 1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental 1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab (soon to be twin turbo 440) 2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:44:34 +0000 Subject: Re: Frederic Breitwieser/turbo discussion > Smaller turbos spool up faster but aren't flash at the top end. The way to size turbos is fairly easy in my opinion. Calculate the CFM your engine will draw at REDLINE, add 5-10%, and you have the size for one large turbo. Cut in half for two small turbos. With two smaller turbos however, at closer to 10% as for some reason we found volumetric losses with two turbos, probably because the intake tubes end up being longer. - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.xephic.dynip.com 1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental 1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab (soon to be twin turbo 440) 2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) ------------------------------ From: "Walter Sherwin" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:54:05 -0800 Subject: Re: BJYM and my modified BJYM is now online Hi, been intrigued by your boosted truck stuff. I might be able to offer some suggestions. Drop me a line, offline. I run 1 bar boost on a 1991 GM truck. Walt. - -----Original Message----- From: Doug Bazarnic To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 1:45 AM Subject: BJYM and my modified BJYM is now online >I've uploaded my BJYM code which is for a '95 Chevy 1/2 ton truck, 350 >(5.7L), 4L60E, AC, 3.73 rear gears. > >My modified code contains mods for the following "enhancements". > >Replaced stock block with a 4 bolt splayed cap block >Cola Crank >Eagle Rods >Ross Racing Pistons with 11.4:1 cr >Total Seal Rings >AirFlow Research 195 Heads w/2.05 and 1.88 valves >Comp Cams Hydraulic Roller camshaft - .512 I & .532 E lift, 220 & 224 @ >.050, 114 lobe sep >B&M Power Charger 144 Super Charger making 9 lbs boost at the manifold >Holley 610 cfm throttle body >Fluid Dampr >Doug Thorley Headders >3" Exhaust >And a 4L60E that's on it's 3rd clutch set, 2nd Torque converter, and 2nd >Input shaft and housing assembly in 42,800 miles. >And to give you a better idea how I drive this thing, it's on its 3rd set >of tires too. :) > >My modified chip has a 900 rpm idle, 6000 rpm shift points (or >thereabouts), and quite a bit of timing. The fuel is whacky, as the B&M >kit increases fuel pressure with boost, and the Map sensor rides in the >90-100% range 95% of the time. > >Things that I don't like about my chip: > >1. Error code 32: EGR..... I don't have an EGR anymore, yet the SES light >comes on daily to remind me that it still isn't there. > >2. The over rich fuel condition on upshifting under full throttle. >Problem comes from the high boost/fuel pressure, and I don't think it can >be solved via ecm. > >3. A choke setting that's too rich on startup. > >Enjoy! > ------------------------------ From: "Eidson, Mark" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:05:32 -0800 Subject: RE: Off Panhard bar Shperical rod end bearings can be used instead of rubber bushings to prevent binding. me - -----Original Message----- From: Gary Derian [mailto:gderian@xxx.com] Sent: Monday, March 15, 1999 1:46 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: Off Panhard bar When both wheels go up and down together you are correct. When one wheel goes up and one goes down, thats when they bind. Gary Derian >Wouldn't the upper bars pull/push the same amount if spaced exactly >the same distance apart from the center? I need to draw something to >understand this better. > >Andy ------------------------------ From: Stuart Hastings Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:07:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: 4cyl big block For help or historical info on the MerCruiser 470 stern drive, search for it in Dejanews under "rec.boats". For the EFI folks, as previously posted, this 4cyl has *one* cast-iron head from a Ford 460, mated to a MerCruiser designed and cast aluminum block. I would expect that MerCruiser used their own crank and camshaft; 4cyl engines typically use "flat" cranks. IIRC, MerCruiser rated it at ~165HP. The aluminum block made it lighter, and probably faster, than the competitive Chevy 135Hp 3.0L 4cyl. Alas, it was more expensive to produce, as it needed a heat exchanger and coolant due to the mixed metals (most cast-iron block sterndrives are cooled with lake water for cost reasons :-P ). Today, the Chevy 3.0L is still the definitive low-cost sterndrive engine, available from MerCruiser or Volvo; I think they're all made with carbs, probably due to cost. MerCruiser gave up on the '470 after a few years, and in spite of its potential performance, it's considered obsolete today. The '470 also had a unique alternator apparently adapted from an outboard; this alternator has been very troublesome and expensive to fix for many people. There is an aftermarket kit available to replace it with a standard belt-driven marine alternator. I wouldn't know if this sterndrive would be worth the effort to add EFI. Good Luck with whatever you decide, stuart hastings stuart@xxx.org ------------------------------ From: ECMnut@xxx.com Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:48:56 EST Subject: Re: Frederic Breitwieser/turbo discussion Frederic, one word .. "twisted" How did you get 4.1 liters to spin up two of these things? At what RPM did they finally show, say >5psi of boost? What exhaust AR exhaust housings did you use? Am I asking too many questions? 8-) Mike V > So, the small turbos went, and we used the two TE44's and at 6200 RPM, we > blew > the crank apart and testing continued on a second engine. ------------------------------ From: dave.williams@xxx.us (Dave Williams) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:39:00 -0500 Subject: Re: exhaust system idea - -> From a CHP information bulletin pertaining to exhaust noise (you can - -> read it at www.vfaq.com/BADSM/CHP-Exhaust.html ) - -> - -> "Section 27150 requires that every motor vehicle subject to - -> registration be equipped with an adequate muffler- There are no - -> exceptions -- all vehicles must be equipped with a muffler as defined - -> in Section 425 VC. A turbocharger I love bureaucracy. Some '60s and '70s AMC and Ford products had no separate muffler; they used corrugated exhaust pipes to quiet the exhaust. ------------------------------ From: dave.williams@xxx.us (Dave Williams) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:51:00 -0500 Subject: Re: exhaust system idea - -> Its a great idea. A few years ago I designed a muffler, like a turbo - -> muffler, that had a butterfly in it. When closed, the exhaust passed - -> through lots of perforated holes and was damped by 2 Helmholz - -> resonators. When open, the exhaust went right through with minimal - -> silencing. Pontiac had mufflers like that, optional on various late '60s models. They had vacuum actuators and many yards of vacuum line. ------------------------------ From: "xwiredtva@xxx.com> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:16:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Re: turbo discussion True. Saab never made a V-6. They designed one with a spark plug that has no electrode, it's on the piston and some other innovative stuff. >I think the SAAB V-6 is a 60 degree unit from Opel, which means it is the >same as the Catera engine (?). Volvo's light pressure setup is a >conventional 5 cylinders into one turbo. > >Gary Derian > > >><> >> >>SAAB also uses it (turbo) on an engine that is very similar to the VW VR6, >in >>that it's a narrow angle V6 that shares a SINGLE cylinder head/valvetrain. >> >>Volvo has a similar turbo set-up. It's referred to as a "light pressure" >set-up, >>when you use only one bank of cylinders to spool the turbo. Volvo uses it >for >>their C70 model, for example. >> >>Jason >>'93 SLC >> > > ------------------------------ From: neilaura@xxx.com Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:28:02 -0800 Subject: RE: O2 sensor At 09:36 AM 3/15/99 -0800, you wrote: > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu >> [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of >> cwagner@xxx.net >> Sent: Sunday, March 14, 1999 7:24 PM >> To: DIY_EFI@xxx.edu >> Subject: O2 sensor >> >> >> I have a question about how to tell when the computer is in closed >> loop mode when a person doesn't have a scan tool. >> I built one of the O2 sensor gauges using the LM3914 chip. What >> should I be looking for to tell when closed loop is on? From what I >> have read, I should see the gauge fluctuating several times a >> second (or as close as the eye can tell). Also, with the O2 sensor >> disconnected from the computer, the O2 sensor does not send a >> voltage during idle even though it is a heated sensor. I find this >> interesting. Can anyone help me out with details about building a sensor guage from a LM3914 chip?. Many thanks Neil ------------------------------ From: sadams@xxx.com Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:02:27 -0500 Subject: DIY-EFI References Looking for a book on GM - ECM programing.. Something that basically overviews the process, covers translation codes to unravel the data etc.. Any help would be appreciated.. Thanks... ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:51:36 +0000 Subject: Re: Frederic Breitwieser/turbo discussion > How did you get 4.1 liters to spin up two of these things? 6200 RPM is a lot of cfm to spin turbos. Plus, the engine is on a dyno, which is entirely different than being in a car. I've learned that throughout the process. > At what RPM did they finally show, say >5psi of boost? I only know max boost. We revved right up to see what the limitations were. > What exhaust AR exhaust housings did you use? The exhaust system was completely fabricated, with reversion tubes the size of the ported exhaust ports, and larger tubes over that, which became the rest of the header runners. 180 degree headers which went underneath the girdle and the drysump pan, to alternate pulses to the two turbos. The plates originally were off the FWD headers, however they didn't survive, so we used them as templates to machine out 3/8" stainless steel plates, and weld stainless tubing to that. > Am I asking too many questions? 8-) Nope, not at all. - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.xephic.dynip.com 1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental 1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab (soon to be twin turbo 440) 2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) ------------------------------ From: Scott Schaaf Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:58:25 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fwd: [J] MUST READ! GREATEST FLAME ON EARTH!] NOT,, I repeat, NOT ME!!!! Teh only problem with Gar was, that he was aCTUALLY pretty sharp about some things. I 'THINK'(?) I learned alot from him!!! Sandy wrote: > > I'll still go with the realism from the late Garfield, he was much better > at it on regular basis. Sad, I kind'a miss it. > > Sandy ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:30:10 -0500 Subject: Re: O2 sensor - -----Original Message----- From: neilaura@xxx.com> To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 11:06 PM Subject: RE: O2 sensor DIY_EFI Home Page Members, and Projects-click O2 LED Display-click Bruce almost too easy Grumpy is still waiting for someone to e-mail him a clue,,,,,,,,....... > >Can anyone help me out with details about building a sensor guage from a >LM3914 chip?. > >Many thanks > >Neil > ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:33:18 -0500 Subject: Turbo calibration for 727 I was crunching some numbers tonight, and I found that the 88-90 Grand Prix w/3.1l turbo uses the 1227727 ecm. So there is a turbo calibration available that fits the 730. Shannen ------------------------------ From: "Mike Pilkenton" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:08:55 -0800 Subject: Re: Bosch Fuel Pump Thanks a million Pete. I thank all you smart guys on this great list for solving my fuel pump questions. Mike Pilkenton - -----Original Message----- From: Pete Boggini To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 11:34 AM Subject: Re: Bosch Fuel Pump >Mike Pilkenton said: >> >>I'd be interested in your flow analysis Bob. I'm desperately looking for an >>in-line fuel pump to use on my 3.1L GM V6 motor. Nothing high performance >>but with my engine transplant project, I can't use a stock tank pump. This >>Bosch pump sounds like it might work great. >> >>Mike P. > > Mike, Bob's pump sounds like the pump I have in my '65 Mustang. Its >an Airtex E2000. I called Airtex when I was looking for a pump for >my EFI conversion and they suggested this one. Its for mid '80's Ford >cars and trucks. The specs I was told were 35-40 GPH and 90PSI. I just >mounted it in front of the fuel tank and its seems to pump just fine >w/o a in-tank pump. BTW, I think this is the same pump that Windsor >Fox sells for their EFI conversions into old Mustangs. The difference >is they charge $300.00 or so and this pump was less than $100.00. I >think its because they actually go to Ford to buy the pump, not the >aftermarket. > > Anyway, I'd recommend this pump, mine is feeding a stock '87 5.0 >in my '65 Mustang. > >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: rr >>To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> >>Date: Saturday, March 13, 1999 10:55 AM >>Subject: Re: Bosch Fuel Pump >> >> >>>I pulled a Bosch pump off a Ford Bronco 4x4. It was located in the frame >>>rail >>>at about the drivers feet area. I understand that there is another pump >>>in the tank to feed this one. A low pressure feeding the high pressure. >>>Don't know what it had for an engine, as most of the truck was gone. >>> >>>The numbers from this pump are similar to yours: >>> >>>Bosch 9 580 810-002 >>>12V 927(circled) 847-28 Made in USA >>>E6EF-9350-AA 8G28 >>> >>>I've a feeling that some of these numbers are lot #'s, plant #'s, >>>line #'s and/or date codes. >>> >>>It has a threaded outlet and a formed inlet. I'll be doing a flow >>>test on it soon. When that's done, I'll post the info. >>> > >peterb > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Peter Boggini >Systems Administrator/Corporate Operations >E-mail: pjb@xxx.com >Phone: (650)933-6858 >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------ From: steve ravet Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:49:34 +0000 Subject: Re: DIY-EFI References I doubt you'll find a book, but have a look at programming 101 on the diy_efi WWW page, under oem systems then GM. Also look at tuning tips. - --steve sadams@xxx.com wrote: > > Looking for a book on GM - ECM programing.. Something that basically > overviews the process, covers translation codes to unravel the data etc.. > Any help would be appreciated.. Thanks... - -- Steve Ravet ARM, INC steve.ravet@xxx.com www.arm.com ------------------------------ From: James Weiler Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:44:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Fwd: [J] MUST READ! GREATEST FLAME ON EARTH!] Hang on, you said late meaning no longer on this list right? Not late, as in no longer part of this world right? jw On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Scott Schaaf wrote: > NOT,, I repeat, NOT ME!!!! Teh only problem with Gar was, that he was > aCTUALLY pretty sharp about some things. I 'THINK'(?) I learned alot > from him!!! > > > Sandy wrote: > > > > I'll still go with the realism from the late Garfield, he was much better > > at it on regular basis. Sad, I kind'a miss it. > > > > Sandy > ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #174 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".