DIY_EFI Digest Friday, 19 March 1999 Volume 04 : Number 181 In this issue: Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system RE: Knocksensing with HIP 9010 RE: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system Book Re: diy_efi projects Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system RE: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system RE: Shift light RE: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system RE: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system RE: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system RE: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system RE: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system RE: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system RE: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system 02 sensor - temprature compensation. Re: 02 sensor - temprature compensation. Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system AN stands for?? Re: AN stands for?? Re: AN stands for?? Re: Shift light See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mitch Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:16:02 -0800 Subject: Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system At 09:39 PM 3/18/99 -0500, Shannen Durphey wrote: >First off, I haven't read any of these books, but Bruce gives >practical advice, good for following. Yes. I like Bruce's advice. In addition to Knell's way, I am also talking to a local friend of mine who has done this slightly differently. So I want to understand all angles. >Why not find an EFI factory tank that will fit under the Elky? I might be able to do this for the Malibu (not the El Camino, it's not getting the TBI), for considerable cost. But if I'm going to put a V8 into a 240Z I'm going to have to solve this eventually. That's why I call the Malibu an EFI mule; I intend to experiment on it. >'Sides, the stock 66 tank doesn't have the charcoal canister >connections or return line, AFAIK. Doesn't have any of the necessary lines. So you remove the sender assembly and machine new holes. > And if you have safety inspections >where you live, seeing non stock fuel system might make inspectors >nervous. Luckily, the State of California cares nothing about safety (unless you want to light up a smoke in a bar). All they care about are emissions and the Malibu is exempt. Thanks for the replies. Mitch ------------------------------ From: "Nils Björkman" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 16:09:55 +0100 Subject: RE: Knocksensing with HIP 9010 Wrong of me, I don´t know what I was thinking with (My toes or what ??) but still the same question: How to determin right values for Resistors and Capasitors using HIP 9010 for knocksensing of my engine. Thanks Nils Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:10:42 -0500 Subject: RE: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system What are you planning on using for the reserve tank? Thats my next and hopefully final hurdle. Some guys here had suggested using part of a holley float bowl. Max >---------- >From: Mitch[SMTP:ozyman@xxx.org] >Reply To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >Sent: Friday, March 19, 1999 9:16 AM >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >Subject: Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system > >At 09:39 PM 3/18/99 -0500, Shannen Durphey wrote: >>First off, I haven't read any of these books, but Bruce gives >>practical advice, good for following. > >Yes. I like Bruce's advice. In addition to Knell's way, I am also talking >to a local friend of mine who has done this slightly differently. So I >want to understand all angles. > >>Why not find an EFI factory tank that will fit under the Elky? > >I might be able to do this for the Malibu (not the El Camino, it's not >getting the TBI), for considerable cost. But if I'm going to put a V8 into >a 240Z I'm going to have to solve this eventually. That's why I call the >Malibu an EFI mule; I intend to experiment on it. > >>'Sides, the stock 66 tank doesn't have the charcoal canister >>connections or return line, AFAIK. > >Doesn't have any of the necessary lines. So you remove the sender assembly >and machine new holes. > >> And if you have safety inspections >>where you live, seeing non stock fuel system might make inspectors >>nervous. > >Luckily, the State of California cares nothing about safety (unless you >want to light up a smoke in a bar). All they care about are emissions and >the Malibu is exempt. > >Thanks for the replies. > >Mitch > > ------------------------------ From: bob@xxx.com (Robert Harris) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 15:33:12 GMT Subject: Book Looking for a good used copy of "Fossil Fuel Combustion: A source book" by Bartok. Any one run across one please let me know. Will pay reasonable amount for one in good condition. Might be easily found in the NC research triangle. Hell next thing I know I might be breaking down and buying books about Calculus and refreshing my ancient memory and actually not have to ignore it. 1963 Ford C-600 Prison Bus Conversion "Home" 1971 Lincoln Continental 460 "Christine" 1972 "Whale" Mustang awaiting transplant 1978 Dodge Long Bed Peeek Up "Bundymobile" Habaneros - not just for breakfast anymore ------------------------------ From: steve ravet Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:31:31 +0000 Subject: Re: diy_efi projects Matt, there are a couple projects like that. Neither of them are 80552, although one is 8051 based. There is also an efi332 project that has its own companion list. Al Lipper is heading up the 8051 project. If you go to the diy_efi WWW page, then look under projects you'll see a pointer to his project. - --steve Matt Boland wrote: > > Hi All, > > I'm new to this diy_efi forum, just joined up the other day. I > have been designing an efi system based on the Philips 80C552 8 bit > microcontroller, sort of 3/4 finished. My problem is that after a day of > designing/building circuits, I just wanna watch tv. I was thinking that > a distributed effort could yield a world class product, sort of like the > open software guys do. You know, they just do their little bit and put > in their 2 cents worth and help with the puzzle. > > Does anybody know of such a project in the efi arena? If so could you > let me know? Thanks. Maybe if there is not one going on already, we > could start one. All the stuff could be copyrighted to the designer, but > freely available for downloading and construction by anyone as long as > they don't sell it. You know how it goes. Anyway, let me know what ya' > think... > > -- > > Matt Boland m.boland@xxx.au > CSIRO Division of Exploration and Mining Phone: +61 7 3212-4482 > PO Box 883 Kenmore Fax: +61 7 3212-4455 > QLD 4069 Australia - -- Steve Ravet ARM, INC steve.ravet@xxx.com www.arm.com ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:15:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system - -----Original Message----- From: Guenther,Max To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Friday, March 19, 1999 10:34 AM Subject: RE: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system Usually the Holley Bowl Trick is used for the mechanical fuel injection systems. Id seriously consider some Black Iron Bits from a Hardware store, for kluding things together. Stuff is heavy, yes, but, easy to work with and road debri won't hurt it Bruce >What are you planning on using for the reserve tank? Thats my next and >hopefully final hurdle. Some guys here had suggested using part of a >holley float bowl. >Max > >>---------- >>From: Mitch[SMTP:ozyman@xxx.org] >>Reply To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >>Sent: Friday, March 19, 1999 9:16 AM >>To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >>Subject: Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system >> >>At 09:39 PM 3/18/99 -0500, Shannen Durphey wrote: >>>First off, I haven't read any of these books, but Bruce gives >>>practical advice, good for following. >> >>Yes. I like Bruce's advice. In addition to Knell's way, I am also talking >>to a local friend of mine who has done this slightly differently. So I >>want to understand all angles. >> >>>Why not find an EFI factory tank that will fit under the Elky? >> >>I might be able to do this for the Malibu (not the El Camino, it's not >>getting the TBI), for considerable cost. But if I'm going to put a V8 into >>a 240Z I'm going to have to solve this eventually. That's why I call the >>Malibu an EFI mule; I intend to experiment on it. >> >>>'Sides, the stock 66 tank doesn't have the charcoal canister >>>connections or return line, AFAIK. >> >>Doesn't have any of the necessary lines. So you remove the sender assembly >>and machine new holes. >> >>> And if you have safety inspections >>>where you live, seeing non stock fuel system might make inspectors >>>nervous. >> >>Luckily, the State of California cares nothing about safety (unless you >>want to light up a smoke in a bar). All they care about are emissions and >>the Malibu is exempt. >> >>Thanks for the replies. >> >>Mitch >> >> > ------------------------------ From: Mitch Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:35:19 -0800 Subject: RE: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system At 10:10 AM 3/19/99 -0500, Guenther,Max wrote: >What are you planning on using for the reserve tank? Thats my next and >hopefully final hurdle. Some guys here had suggested using part of a >holley float bowl. Generally I expect welding to be required, but keep in mind it's a low-pressure application. A buddy of mine has made one using a length of exhaust pipe, welding sheet metal caps on each end to close it. The inlets and outlets are welded in on tangents to the outside curve. He reckons this helps with air/fuel separation. He has offered to make one for me if I will do the cutting. On the other hand, some fellow on the Jaguar Lumps mailing list (for folks who put American V8s in their Jaguars) says, "any SAAB 16V up to 1989 or so had a Bosch 2-pump setup - a feeder pump inside a little bucket which then fed the main pump. All in one compact package." I'd like to have a look at one of these; it might meet the requirements with little further modification. I will continue to document this in great detail on my Web site. Mitch The Urban Redneck o ozyman@xxx.org o Goat Hill, California http://www.employees.org/~ozyman ------------------------------ From: eclark@xxx.com Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:42:58 -0600 (EST) Subject: Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Mitch wrote: > > And if you have safety inspections > >where you live, seeing non stock fuel system might make inspectors > >nervous. > > Luckily, the State of California cares nothing about safety (unless you > want to light up a smoke in a bar). All they care about are emissions and > the Malibu is exempt. I'm not sure if that is correct. I own a '66 Impala that was built for california emissions, it was the only state for that year that required a PVC valve and AIR system. The only part that was left of it when I got it was the PVC and I have the original rams horn manifolds with AIR fittings. I dont live in california but I assume they require emissions testing on 66 and later. If your car was not built in California than this probably doesnt affect you. - -Eric ------------------------------ From: "Falb, John" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:58:23 -0500 Subject: RE: Shift light Here is a design I have made and it works great. Fully adjustable from 0-10,000 and more. It is a two stage design, each light is independently adjustable. I use two 10mm LED's one is yellow and one is red. I also only use 60 ohm resistors on the LEDs. I don't know what kind of car you have but it should work with any aftermarket ignition with a tach output, or just about any newer car. (I think) I will make it for you for 80.00 plus shipping. But if you did it yourself it could be done for under $30.00 including a brand new soldering iron. http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/7415/shift.htm And you can get all you parts from here. http://www.digikey.com/ Have fun! John Falb ------------------------------ From: "Guenther,Max" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:30:06 -0500 Subject: RE: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system Sorry, but what are Black Iron Bits????????????? Max >Usually the Holley Bowl Trick is used for the mechanical fuel injection >systems. >Id seriously consider some Black Iron Bits from a Hardware store, for >kluding things >together. Stuff is heavy, yes, but, easy to work with and road debri won't >hurt it >Bruce > > > ------------------------------ From: "Ward Spoonemore" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:47:44 -0800 Subject: RE: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system You guys do know there are a lot of cars out there that do not have fuel return lines, Chrysler, and Ford for example use pressure regulators that are in the tank. You may be overlooking the fact that the fuel in the tank will reach something near underhood temperatures aft a relatively short time. Probably about 150 Deg F. Common. (but wrong) thinking is that cold fuel will be coming from the tank, Maybe in the Arctic. Obviously if you circulate a lot of fuel through a hot environment the heat will transfer. New car makers have a major probable with Carbon Can systems loading with hot vapor from the tank. The ECM/PCM will enable can purge when it thinks it can get away with a period of rich fuel, If you look at the Short term fuel correction value you can see the engine going very rich until the purge is done or disabled. using a late Camaro as an example the pressure in the fuel tank will get high enough to blow the fuel cap out of your hand when removing the fuel tank cap ! So anything you can do to reduce fuel heating will make the emission problem more manageable, Ward > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of > Guenther,Max > Sent: Friday, March 19, 1999 7:11 AM > To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu' > Subject: RE: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system > > > What are you planning on using for the reserve tank? Thats my next and > hopefully final hurdle. Some guys here had suggested using part of a > holley float bowl. > Max > > >---------- > >From: Mitch[SMTP:ozyman@xxx.org] > >Reply To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > >Sent: Friday, March 19, 1999 9:16 AM > >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > >Subject: Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system > > > >At 09:39 PM 3/18/99 -0500, Shannen Durphey wrote: > >>First off, I haven't read any of these books, but Bruce gives > >>practical advice, good for following. > > > >Yes. I like Bruce's advice. In addition to Knell's way, I am > also talking > >to a local friend of mine who has done this slightly differently. So I > >want to understand all angles. > > > >>Why not find an EFI factory tank that will fit under the Elky? > > > >I might be able to do this for the Malibu (not the El Camino, it's not > >getting the TBI), for considerable cost. But if I'm going to > put a V8 into > >a 240Z I'm going to have to solve this eventually. That's why I call the > >Malibu an EFI mule; I intend to experiment on it. > > > >>'Sides, the stock 66 tank doesn't have the charcoal canister > >>connections or return line, AFAIK. > > > >Doesn't have any of the necessary lines. So you remove the > sender assembly > >and machine new holes. > > > >> And if you have safety inspections > >>where you live, seeing non stock fuel system might make inspectors > >>nervous. > > > >Luckily, the State of California cares nothing about safety (unless you > >want to light up a smoke in a bar). All they care about are > emissions and > >the Malibu is exempt. > > > >Thanks for the replies. > > > >Mitch > > > > > ------------------------------ From: Mitch Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:44:56 -0800 Subject: Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system At 10:42 AM 3/19/99 -0600, eclark@xxx.com wrote: > >I dont live in california but I assume they require emissions testing on >66 and later. If your car was not built in California than this probably >doesnt affect you. The law was changed last year. Model years 1973 and before are exempt from emissions controls. Or at least from emissions inspections. Mitch ------------------------------ From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:52:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system Black Iron Bits - otherwise known as standard black-iron gas-pipe fittings - sched 40 pipe. ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:02:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system - -----Original Message----- From: Guenther,Max To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Friday, March 19, 1999 12:47 PM Subject: RE: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system Ugh, the plumbing section. For household/commerial gas work. Not the copper/brass/chrome stuff. Galvanized heavy wall. Bruce >Sorry, but what are Black Iron Bits????????????? >Max > >>Usually the Holley Bowl Trick is used for the mechanical fuel injection >>systems. >>Id seriously consider some Black Iron Bits from a Hardware store, for >>kluding things >>together. Stuff is heavy, yes, but, easy to work with and road debri won't >>hurt it >>Bruce >> >> >> > ------------------------------ From: "Guenther,Max" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:11:14 -0500 Subject: RE: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system I was wondering about something like that. (Please correct me if I'm wrong, I dont want to try and phrase this all in the form of a question!) You only need an in, an out(on the bottom) and a return(on the top). Just let the low pressure pump go full speed ahead and when your resevoir fills up excess just comes out the resevoir return and back into the tank. Right? No need for a float ect, unless your an engineer who likes to do it the hardest way possible(aka me);-) Max > >Generally I expect welding to be required, but keep in mind it's a >low-pressure application. > >A buddy of mine has made one using a length of exhaust pipe, welding sheet >metal caps on each end to close it. The inlets and outlets are welded in >on tangents to the outside curve. He reckons this helps with air/fuel >separation. He has offered to make one for me if I will do the cutting. > >On the other hand, some fellow on the Jaguar Lumps mailing list (for folks >who put American V8s in their Jaguars) says, "any SAAB 16V up to 1989 or so >had a Bosch 2-pump setup - a feeder pump inside a little bucket which then >fed the main pump. All in one compact package." I'd like to have a look >at one of these; it might meet the requirements with little further >modification. > >I will continue to document this in great detail on my Web site. > >Mitch > >The Urban Redneck o ozyman@xxx.org o Goat Hill, California > http://www.employees.org/~ozyman > > ------------------------------ From: "Kurek, Larry" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:24:18 -0600 Subject: RE: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system Just to follow up on this... The new LS1 F/Y-bodies have a similiar setup to the Fords, etc with the one line only and reguilator in the tank. I have heard as well that this was done for reasons as Ward mentions below... FYI... Larry > You guys do know there are a lot of cars out there that do > not have fuel > return lines, Chrysler, and Ford for example use pressure > regulators that > are in the tank. > > You may be overlooking the fact that the fuel in the tank will reach > something near underhood temperatures aft a relatively short > time. Probably > about 150 Deg F. Common. (but wrong) thinking is that cold > fuel will be > coming from the tank, Maybe in the Arctic. Obviously if you > circulate a lot > of fuel through a hot environment the heat will transfer. > > New car makers have a major probable with Carbon Can systems > loading with > hot vapor from the tank. The ECM/PCM will enable can purge > when it thinks it > can get away with a period of rich fuel, If you look at the > Short term fuel > correction value you can see the engine going very rich until > the purge is > done or disabled. using a late Camaro as an example the > pressure in the fuel > tank will get high enough to blow the fuel cap out of your hand when > removing the fuel tank cap ! > > So anything you can do to reduce fuel heating will make the > emission problem > more manageable, ------------------------------ From: andy quaas Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:30:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: RE: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system I had this heating problem with my truck. If would run the tank down to 5 gallons and stop at the gas station. Now i had an open vent to the atmosphere right in the top of the tank. I filled up the tank (i didn't even top it off), and when i came back from paying for it there was all sorts of gas on the ground! It came through the vent! And a lot of it! I'd bet at least 1/2 gallon would spew out. Moving your fuel lines to the outside of the frame would help cooling while driving greatly. Also insulating the fuel rails or fuel line by then engine will help. Andy - ---Ward Spoonemore wrote: > > You guys do know there are a lot of cars out there that do not have fuel > return lines, Chrysler, and Ford for example use pressure regulators that > are in the tank. > > You may be overlooking the fact that the fuel in the tank will reach > something near underhood temperatures aft a relatively short time. Probably > about 150 Deg F. Common. (but wrong) thinking is that cold fuel will be > coming from the tank, Maybe in the Arctic. Obviously if you circulate a lot > of fuel through a hot environment the heat will transfer. > > New car makers have a major probable with Carbon Can systems loading with > hot vapor from the tank. The ECM/PCM will enable can purge when it thinks it > can get away with a period of rich fuel, If you look at the Short term fuel > correction value you can see the engine going very rich until the purge is > done or disabled. using a late Camaro as an example the pressure in the fuel > tank will get high enough to blow the fuel cap out of your hand when > removing the fuel tank cap ! > > So anything you can do to reduce fuel heating will make the emission problem > more manageable, > > Ward > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu > > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of > > Guenther,Max > > Sent: Friday, March 19, 1999 7:11 AM > > To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu' > > Subject: RE: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system > > > > > > What are you planning on using for the reserve tank? Thats my next and > > hopefully final hurdle. Some guys here had suggested using part of a > > holley float bowl. > > Max > > > > >---------- > > >From: Mitch[SMTP:ozyman@xxx.org] > > >Reply To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > >Sent: Friday, March 19, 1999 9:16 AM > > >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu; diy_efi@xxx.edu > > >Subject: Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system > > > > > >At 09:39 PM 3/18/99 -0500, Shannen Durphey wrote: > > >>First off, I haven't read any of these books, but Bruce gives > > >>practical advice, good for following. > > > > > >Yes. I like Bruce's advice. In addition to Knell's way, I am > > also talking > > >to a local friend of mine who has done this slightly differently. So I > > >want to understand all angles. > > > > > >>Why not find an EFI factory tank that will fit under the Elky? > > > > > >I might be able to do this for the Malibu (not the El Camino, it's not > > >getting the TBI), for considerable cost. But if I'm going to > > put a V8 into > > >a 240Z I'm going to have to solve this eventually. That's why I call the > > >Malibu an EFI mule; I intend to experiment on it. > > > > > >>'Sides, the stock 66 tank doesn't have the charcoal canister > > >>connections or return line, AFAIK. > > > > > >Doesn't have any of the necessary lines. So you remove the > > sender assembly > > >and machine new holes. > > > > > >> And if you have safety inspections > > >>where you live, seeing non stock fuel system might make inspectors > > >>nervous. > > > > > >Luckily, the State of California cares nothing about safety (unless you > > >want to light up a smoke in a bar). All they care about are > > emissions and > > >the Malibu is exempt. > > > > > >Thanks for the replies. > > > > > >Mitch > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ From: "Guenther,Max" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:41:06 -0500 Subject: RE: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system I see said the blind man! Very nice idea, no welding required, $83.14 in fittings, but no welding required(a BIG plus). Thank you very much Max >---------- >From: Clarence L.Snyder[SMTP:clare.snyder.on.ca@xxx.net] >Reply To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >Sent: Friday, March 19, 1999 12:52 PM >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >Subject: Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system > >Black Iron Bits - otherwise known as standard black-iron gas-pipe >fittings - sched 40 pipe. > ------------------------------ From: Frederic Breitwieser Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:02:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system > was all sorts of gas on the ground! It came through the vent! And a > lot of it! I'd bet at least 1/2 gallon would spew out. The last carb to efi conversion I did I attached the vent hose to the filler neck at a 90 degree angle, so that it would overflow/spray into the neck when filling. Off that, heading upwards, was a short piece of hose at a 90 degree angle to that, so the gas really had to turn around to go out. A few little dribbles, no big deal. I discovered the vent hose for my Dodge D200 (carb currently) hangs off the top of the tank, then dangled on the inside of the frame towards the ground. If the gas pump had enough pressure, it would eventually come out the vent hose and keep going due to the end of the hose being lower than the tank itself. What a dumb thing that was. Not sure if Dodge did this or the imbicile who had the truck before me. Anyway, that too went to the filler neck. > > > Moving your fuel lines to the outside of the frame would help cooling > while driving greatly. Also insulating the fuel rails or fuel line by > then engine will help. > > Andy > > ---Ward Spoonemore wrote: > > > > You guys do know there are a lot of cars out there that do not have > fuel > > return lines, Chrysler, and Ford for example use pressure regulators > that > > are in the tank. > > > > You may be overlooking the fact that the fuel in the tank will reach > > something near underhood temperatures aft a relatively short time. > Probably > > about 150 Deg F. Common. (but wrong) thinking is that cold fuel will > be > > coming from the tank, Maybe in the Arctic. Obviously if you > circulate a lot > > of fuel through a hot environment the heat will transfer. > > > > New car makers have a major probable with Carbon Can systems loading > with > > hot vapor from the tank. The ECM/PCM will enable can purge when it > thinks it > > can get away with a period of rich fuel, If you look at the Short > term fuel > > correction value you can see the engine going very rich until the > purge is > > done or disabled. using a late Camaro as an example the pressure in > the fuel > > tank will get high enough to blow the fuel cap out of your hand when > > removing the fuel tank cap ! > > > > So anything you can do to reduce fuel heating will make the emission > problem > > more manageable, > > > > Ward > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu > > > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of > > > Guenther,Max > > > Sent: Friday, March 19, 1999 7:11 AM > > > To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu' > > > Subject: RE: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system > > > > > > > > > What are you planning on using for the reserve tank? Thats my next > and > > > hopefully final hurdle. Some guys here had suggested using part > of a > > > holley float bowl. > > > Max > > > > > > >---------- > > > >From: Mitch[SMTP:ozyman@xxx.org] > > > >Reply To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > > >Sent: Friday, March 19, 1999 9:16 AM > > > >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu; > diy_efi@xxx.edu > > > >Subject: Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system > > > > > > > >At 09:39 PM 3/18/99 -0500, Shannen Durphey wrote: > > > >>First off, I haven't read any of these books, but Bruce gives > > > >>practical advice, good for following. > > > > > > > >Yes. I like Bruce's advice. In addition to Knell's way, I am > > > also talking > > > >to a local friend of mine who has done this slightly differently. > So I > > > >want to understand all angles. > > > > > > > >>Why not find an EFI factory tank that will fit under the Elky? > > > > > > > >I might be able to do this for the Malibu (not the El Camino, > it's not > > > >getting the TBI), for considerable cost. But if I'm going to > > > put a V8 into > > > >a 240Z I'm going to have to solve this eventually. That's why I > call the > > > >Malibu an EFI mule; I intend to experiment on it. > > > > > > > >>'Sides, the stock 66 tank doesn't have the charcoal canister > > > >>connections or return line, AFAIK. > > > > > > > >Doesn't have any of the necessary lines. So you remove the > > > sender assembly > > > >and machine new holes. > > > > > > > >> And if you have safety inspections > > > >>where you live, seeing non stock fuel system might make inspectors > > > >>nervous. > > > > > > > >Luckily, the State of California cares nothing about safety > (unless you > > > >want to light up a smoke in a bar). All they care about are > > > emissions and > > > >the Malibu is exempt. > > > > > > > >Thanks for the replies. > > > > > > > >Mitch > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @xxx.com - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ From: Mitch Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:50:00 -0800 Subject: RE: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system At 01:11 PM 3/19/99 -0500, Guenther,Max wrote: > You only need an in, an out(on the bottom) and a return(on the top). >Just let the low pressure pump go full speed ahead and when your >resevoir fills up excess just comes out the resevoir return and back >into the tank. Right? Diagram at: http://www.employees.org/~ozyman/carstuff/efi_fuel.htm This is evolving... Mitch ------------------------------ From: eclark@xxx.com Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:32:09 -0600 (EST) Subject: Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system > The law was changed last year. Model years 1973 and before are exempt from > emissions controls. Or at least from emissions inspections. Very cool. I guess I am no longer exiled from california. :) - - Eric ------------------------------ From: "Espen Hilde" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 22:23:40 +0100 Subject: 02 sensor - temprature compensation. Seems like its difficult to accept that a regular o2 sensor is not accurate in rich or lean and high temp conditions. Making wide band sensor circuit have stranded 2 times......maybe its to time consuming or to difficult? The wide band sensor is expensive...... What about developing a temp compensating circuit for the LM 3914 based led meter? Is this easy? Maybe a led temp meter with it? Espen Hilde ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:17:15 -0500 Subject: Re: 02 sensor - temprature compensation. - -----Original Message----- From: Espen Hilde To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Friday, March 19, 1999 5:06 PM Subject: 02 sensor - temprature compensation. Need to have a second sensor, independent of O2 for sensing temp. Now if you used a heated O2 sensor and used the resistance of the heater as an indication of the EG temperature, then your cooking. Now that gm has 4 wire O2s that is something to look at...... 830mv, can be 12.5 to 11.3:1 depending on EGT. Bruce >Seems like its difficult to accept that a regular o2 sensor is not accurate >in >rich or lean and high temp conditions. > Making wide band sensor circuit have stranded 2 times......maybe its to >time consuming or to difficult? >The wide band sensor is expensive...... >What about developing a temp compensating circuit for the LM 3914 based >led meter? >Is this easy? >Maybe a led temp meter with it? >Espen Hilde > ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:23:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system - -----Original Message----- From: Mitch To: diy_efi@xxx.edu>; 'diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Friday, March 19, 1999 3:03 PM Subject: RE: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system Wrong, regulator has to be in series with TBI/Injectors BUT Post, not Pre. You might pull this off, on a lo po motor, but for AE+PE medium-high HP won't work, or I've never gotten it to. Bruce >Diagram at: > http://www.employees.org/~ozyman/carstuff/efi_fuel.htm >This is evolving... >Mitch ------------------------------ From: Clarence Wood Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 16:38:51 -0600 Subject: AN stands for?? I am at a loss. I can not find out what an 'AN' size fitting is/means. I have found out that 'Boss' is the same thread size. I can go into a parts store and ask for a #10 MB (Male Boss) fitting and it is exactly the same as an AN #10 fitting; the only difference is that the guys in the parts store don't know what an AN is. When I took my FPR in and showed them they said "Ah hell, that's a #10 MB to 3/8 fitting". Can anybody tell me what the history of 'AN' is? Also, what is the history of Boss, and why are they the same but called different names? Clarence IZCC #3426 1982 280ZX Turbo GL 1966 El Camino 1982 Yamaha Maxim XJ-1101J Motorcycle 1975 Honda CB750 SS (black engine) 1986 Snapper Comet lawn mower Clarence Wood Software&Such... clarencewood@xxx.net Savannah, TN. ------------------------------ From: James Weiler Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:47:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: AN stands for?? I thought AN stood for airforce/navy as this is who the adapters were originally designed for. As far as I'm aware there are only 2 types of fittings. AN and SAE. AN flare is 37 degrees and SAE is 45 degrees so they aren't compatible. As for thread sizes they may or may not be the same I don't know. But you don't want to get the flare wrong as it defeats the whole purpose of the high quality fitting. I've never heard the term boss before. Also make sure you're not dealing with saginaw fittings (i.e. you mentioned your FPR, if it's a GM part then it's probably a saginaw type fitting. These use O-rings. hope some of this helps. Where are you located? jw On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Clarence Wood wrote: > I am at a loss. I can not find out what an 'AN' size fitting is/means. I have found out that 'Boss' is the same thread size. I can go into a parts store and ask for a #10 MB (Male Boss) fitting and it is exactly the same as an AN #10 fitting; the only difference is that the guys in the parts store don't know what an AN is. When I took my FPR in and showed them they said "Ah hell, that's a #10 MB to 3/8 fitting". Can anybody tell me what the history of 'AN' is? Also, what is the history of Boss, and why are they the same but called different names? > > Clarence > > > IZCC #3426 > 1982 280ZX Turbo GL > 1966 El Camino > 1982 Yamaha Maxim XJ-1101J Motorcycle > 1975 Honda CB750 SS (black engine) > 1986 Snapper Comet lawn mower > Clarence Wood > Software&Such... > clarencewood@xxx.net > Savannah, TN. > ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 18:09:09 -0500 Subject: Re: AN stands for?? - -----Original Message----- From: Clarence Wood To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Friday, March 19, 1999 5:50 PM Subject: AN stands for?? Be careful with doing things like that. There is more than one type of AN fitting, wrong yes, but that's the way it is. All that are blue+red are not AN. The tapered areas that seal can be eith 37d or 45d, and may work for a while, or may fail at anytime. Once you go with one brand stay with them. The largest selection of AN/AN Type fittings is from Earl's, I beleive Long Beach Ca. They have been in the Fittings business since at least the early 70's. There are also, many grades of hose. Some of which is very specific for use. Bruce > I am at a loss. I can not find out what an 'AN' size fitting is/means. I have found out that 'Boss' is the same thread size. I can go into a parts store and ask for a #10 MB (Male Boss) fitting and it is exactly the same as an AN #10 fitting; the only difference is that the guys in the parts store don't know what an AN is. When I took my FPR in and showed them they said "Ah hell, that's a #10 MB to 3/8 fitting". Can anybody tell me what the history of 'AN' is? Also, what is the history of Boss, and why are they the same but called different names? > >Clarence > > >IZCC #3426 > 1982 280ZX Turbo GL > 1966 El Camino > 1982 Yamaha Maxim XJ-1101J Motorcycle > 1975 Honda CB750 SS (black engine) > 1986 Snapper Comet lawn mower >Clarence Wood >Software&Such... >clarencewood@xxx.net >Savannah, TN. > ------------------------------ From: "Ferman C. Lao" Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 07:24:56 +0800 Subject: Re: Shift light Thanks, will see if I can do it. - -----Original Message----- From: Falb, John To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Saturday, March 20, 1999 1:34 AM Subject: RE: Shift light > >Here is a design I have made and it works great. Fully adjustable from >0-10,000 and more. It is a two stage design, each light is independently >adjustable. I use two 10mm LED's one is yellow and one is red. I also only >use 60 ohm resistors on the LEDs. I don't know what kind of car you have but >it should work with any aftermarket ignition with a tach output, or just >about any newer car. (I think) > >I will make it for you for 80.00 plus shipping. > >But if you did it yourself it could be done for under $30.00 including a >brand new soldering iron. > >http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/7415/shift.htm > >And you can get all you parts from here. > >http://www.digikey.com/ > >Have fun! > >John Falb > ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #181 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".