DIY_EFI Digest Saturday, 20 March 1999 Volume 04 : Number 182 In this issue: Re: Book Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system Re: AN stands for?? RE: AN stands for?? RE: AN stands for?? Re: AN stands for?? Re: AN stands for?? Programming 101 Re: AN stands for?? Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system Re: 4 cyl big block! Re: ECU6 Re: ford efi to tbi swap Best Place to Start See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Walter Sherwin" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 18:29:01 -0800 Subject: Re: Book >Hell next thing I know I might be breaking down and buying books about >Calculus and refreshing my ancient memory and actually not have to ignore it. Want one on non-homogenous, non-constant differential equations? :)....... ------------------------------ From: goflo@xxx.net Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 16:39:20 -0800 Subject: Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system eclark@xxx.com wrote: > > The law was changed last year. Model years 1973 > > and before are exempt from emissions controls. Unfortunately not. OEM emission equipment is required. > > Or at least from emissions inspections. Periodic inspections, yes. I've run into one guy so far who's gotten a side-of-the-road inspection from the mounties. And a citation. Had'nt been to court yet. Jack ------------------------------ From: xxalexx@xxx.com Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 18:33:45 +0000 Subject: Re: AN stands for?? > I am at a loss. I can not find out what an 'AN' size fitting is/means. I have found out that 'Boss' is the same thread size. I can go into a parts store and ask for a #10 MB (Male Boss) fitting > Clarence > AN is a military specification, I'm pretty sure means ArmyNavy. The spec. was made before the airfarce existed. There is usually a hydraulic hose store or Aeroquip dealer around, or your a FBO (fixed base operator) AP mechanic at local airport, that know there fittings. alex ------------------------------ From: "James Montebello" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 15:44:17 -0800 Subject: RE: AN stands for?? AN stands for Army/Navy. It refers to a standard developed by the US military 50-60 years ago. The AN 'dash' number (AN-4, AN-6, AN-12) refers officially to the OD of a tube, but in practice has come to refer also to a particular size of threaded fitting. Larger numbers mean bigger sizes. -4 is typically used for fuel lines, -6 for brake lines, -12 or -16 for oil lines. The aerospace industry uses this stuff all over the place, and because of the high-quality of the parts, the racing crowd started to use it, too. Fittings used by most auto manufacturers are either NPT (National Pipe Thread) or metric, probably using some ISO standard for thread pitch and form. Adapters are readily available to convert AN to NPT and AN to metric. If you want a source of AN fittings, look around for a distributor of Earl's or AeroQuip. Most decent hot-rod shops will know about this stuff. Really good ones will stock it. james montebello > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of Clarence > Wood > Sent: Friday, March 19, 1999 2:39 PM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: AN stands for?? > > > I am at a loss. I can not find out what an 'AN' size > fitting is/means. I have found out that 'Boss' is the same > thread size. I can go into a parts store and ask for a #10 > MB (Male Boss) fitting and it is exactly the same as an AN > #10 fitting; the only difference is that the guys in the > parts store don't know what an AN is. When I took my FPR in > and showed them they said "Ah hell, that's a #10 MB to 3/8 > fitting". Can anybody tell me what the history of 'AN' is? > Also, what is the history of Boss, and why are they the same > but called different names? > > Clarence > > > IZCC #3426 > 1982 280ZX Turbo GL > 1966 El Camino > 1982 Yamaha Maxim XJ-1101J Motorcycle > 1975 Honda CB750 SS (black engine) > 1986 Snapper Comet lawn mower > Clarence Wood > Software&Such... > clarencewood@xxx.net > Savannah, TN. > ------------------------------ From: "James Montebello" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 15:58:13 -0800 Subject: RE: AN stands for?? > I thought AN stood for airforce/navy as this is who the adapters were > originally designed for. As far as I'm aware there are only > 2 types of fittings. AN and SAE. AN flare is 37 degrees and SAE is 45 > degrees so they aren't compatible. As for thread sizes they may or may > not be the same I don't know. But you don't want to get the flare wrong > as it defeats the whole purpose of the high quality fitting. There are also metric (seen on many European cars), NPT (not usually seen used by OEM vendors, but often seen on cheaper aftermarket parts), BSP (British Standard Pipe, seen on old English cars). The flare mentioned is where the male and female ends both end in a cone shape, one fitting inside the other. This ensures a good pressure-proof seal without O-rings. In addition to thread diameters, there's also thread pitch (distance from peak-to-peak), and thread form (how the deep the thread is, the shape of the thread, etc.). There are many to choose from. The AN standard came about since every vendor had its own style of fitting, and it drove the military crazy having to stock a thousand different kinds of fittings to fix stuff. This is not a simple subject. The way to avoid your own kind of craziness when buying fittings is to do one of two things: a) only buy fittings from one supplier (say, Earl's), b) only use barbed fittings and hose clamps, since the fit isn't quite so critical. Either one will work for the kinds of pressures normally seen on cars (with the exception of brakes). The former is prettier and neater, but more expensive unless the fittings will be taken apart frequently. james montebello ------------------------------ From: "Walter Sherwin" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 19:03:09 -0800 Subject: Re: AN stands for?? >Be careful with doing things like that. >There is more than one type of AN fitting, wrong yes, but that's the way it >is. All that are blue+red are not AN. The tapered areas that seal can be >eith 37d or 45d, and may work for a while, or may fail at anytime. Once you >go with one brand stay with them. Not to mention "JIC", fittings which are similar. Walt. ------------------------------ From: ScottyCBoy@xxx.com Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 19:03:27 EST Subject: Re: AN stands for?? In a message dated 3/19/99 4:41:21 PM Central Standard Time, clarencewood@xxx.net writes: << I am at a loss. I can not find out what an 'AN' size fitting is/means. I have found out that 'Boss' is the same thread size. I can go into a parts store and ask for a #10 MB (Male Boss) fitting and it is exactly the same as an AN #10 fitting; the only difference is that the guys in the parts store don't know what an AN is. When I took my FPR in and showed them they said "Ah hell, that's a #10 MB to 3/8 fitting". Can anybody tell me what the history of 'AN' is? Also, what is the history of Boss, and why are they the same but called different names? >> An stands for Army/Navy which is who first developed the fittings for aircraft/airframe usage. ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 19:15:30 -0500 Subject: Programming 101 The purpose of this posting is the understanding of engine management, as used by gm in the 1227747 ecm. The Prom Mask is 42 as found at 0004. If you attempt to use any of this informaton for modifing a vehicle, be aware that you can ruin a pefectly good engine in a matter of seconds, by experimenting. If you can read a spark plug, or have't read the tuning tips, please don't try to use any of this info.. Changing any of this in your location may be illegal, and may only be used in off road conditions. While the ecm has a capacity for Hearing detonation, the recovery rate is slow so as to allow the engine to recover "smoothly". While maybe not an ideal chose of words, it does min, crank speed variances. Anyway, there needed to be a very fast acting way of preventing detonation, during sudden TPS changes, or acclerations. They do that at 002E-0031. E being MAP Threshold F TPS 0 Diff TPS 1 Duration The degrees for the above are referenced at 0167-016C as a function of CT Starting at 010A is a table 12x5 that seems to be a spark vs coolant temp.. The EGR SA (Spark Advance) vs EGR correction is 0146 thru 0156 At 01C4 starts a table 7x7 for EGR, then another EGR string at 01F6 At 0220 is another EGR related table that is 13x8 Closed Loop Timer is warm or cold and the temp is at 0296, and warm timer is 0297, and cold 0298. 02AA is stoich If you'd care is take issue with any of this please write me off line, and then we'll figure out my errors.. Also, please change the heading when respondiing so we can keep this searchable in the archives. Bruce nacelp@xxx.net ------------------------------ From: "Gary Derian" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 19:23:29 -0500 Subject: Re: AN stands for?? AN fittings were originally designed for aircraft hydraulic fittings. The dash size is the OD of the metal tube used for that fitting in 16ths of an inch. A -6 is a 3/8 tube. A -12 is a 3/4 tube. The ID is not specified but obviously a little smaller. Boss threads, or O-ring port use the same thread size as AN but seal on an o-ring placed in a groove machined in the male thread and seals in a counterbore in the female thread. These are typically known as SAE O-ring ports. The AN nomenclature has been replaced by JIC (Joint Industry Conference) and is widely used in industrial hydraulic systems. There is lots more to learn. I suggest going to an industrial hydraulic shop and looking around. Parker and Aeroquip are well known suppliers. I have always found the Earls fittings (anodized aluminum) to be very expensive compared to the industrial type (plated steel). Earls has good stuff, its just overkill for my purposes. Gary Derian >> I am at a loss. I can not find out what an 'AN' size fitting is/means. I have found out that 'Boss' is the same thread size. I can go into a parts store and ask for a #10 MB (Male Boss) fitting > Clarence ------------------------------ From: Shannen Durphey Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 19:31:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system A power steering fluid cooler from an 88 or so Olds Delta 88 has 5/16" inlet and outlet, and is barbed to retain hoses under pressure. Works good in fuel return line. Shannen Ward Spoonemore wrote: > > You guys do know there are a lot of cars out there that do not have fuel > return lines, Chrysler, and Ford for example use pressure regulators that > are in the tank. > > You may be overlooking the fact that the fuel in the tank will reach > something near underhood temperatures aft a relatively short time. Probably > about 150 Deg F. Common. (but wrong) thinking is that cold fuel will be > coming from the tank, Maybe in the Arctic. Obviously if you circulate a lot > of fuel through a hot environment the heat will transfer. > > New car makers have a major probable with Carbon Can systems loading with > hot vapor from the tank. The ECM/PCM will enable can purge when it thinks it > can get away with a period of rich fuel, If you look at the Short term fuel > correction value you can see the engine going very rich until the purge is > done or disabled. using a late Camaro as an example the pressure in the fuel > tank will get high enough to blow the fuel cap out of your hand when > removing the fuel tank cap ! > > So anything you can do to reduce fuel heating will make the emission problem > more manageable, > > Ward > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu > > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of > > Guenther,Max > > Sent: Friday, March 19, 1999 7:11 AM > > To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu' > > Subject: RE: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system > > > > > > What are you planning on using for the reserve tank? Thats my next and > > hopefully final hurdle. Some guys here had suggested using part of a > > holley float bowl. > > Max > > > > >---------- > > >From: Mitch[SMTP:ozyman@xxx.org] > > >Reply To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > >Sent: Friday, March 19, 1999 9:16 AM > > >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > >Subject: Re: Conversion to EFI : Fuel system > > > > > >At 09:39 PM 3/18/99 -0500, Shannen Durphey wrote: > > >>First off, I haven't read any of these books, but Bruce gives > > >>practical advice, good for following. > > > > > >Yes. I like Bruce's advice. In addition to Knell's way, I am > > also talking > > >to a local friend of mine who has done this slightly differently. So I > > >want to understand all angles. > > > > > >>Why not find an EFI factory tank that will fit under the Elky? > > > > > >I might be able to do this for the Malibu (not the El Camino, it's not > > >getting the TBI), for considerable cost. But if I'm going to > > put a V8 into > > >a 240Z I'm going to have to solve this eventually. That's why I call the > > >Malibu an EFI mule; I intend to experiment on it. > > > > > >>'Sides, the stock 66 tank doesn't have the charcoal canister > > >>connections or return line, AFAIK. > > > > > >Doesn't have any of the necessary lines. So you remove the > > sender assembly > > >and machine new holes. > > > > > >> And if you have safety inspections > > >>where you live, seeing non stock fuel system might make inspectors > > >>nervous. > > > > > >Luckily, the State of California cares nothing about safety (unless you > > >want to light up a smoke in a bar). All they care about are > > emissions and > > >the Malibu is exempt. > > > > > >Thanks for the replies. > > > > > >Mitch > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ From: mrford2300@xxx.net (Allen Moore) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 21:04:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: 4 cyl big block! I build the merc 470/480 for race app. CARS! Not boats. If you are interested e me. Got all the low down on them. There are a lot of problems to deal with in the high performance aspect of this engine, but I think the finished product is worth the trouble. Allen S.(smart azz) Moore Worlds quickest 1/8 mile Ford 2.3L turbo door slammer 1972 Pinto 1/8 mile @xxx.49 105 mph http://members.aol.com/MrFord351 ------------------------------ From: Al Lipper Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 16:22:58 -0800 Subject: Re: ECU6 Yes, the .BOM file is a text file ;-) The system actually uses a standard heated EFO sensor, but could be improved using an HEGO version. We are currently placing the finishing touches on ECU7, the next version. While the hardware is almost complete, the software still needs adapting, and may need to wait until we find someone with the time and expertise to do this (BASIC and 8051 programming). In the meantime, ECU6 is quite functional. Good luck. Al At 02:10 PM 3/19/99 -0800, you wrote: >Al- > >I am a Mechanical Engineer and a FoxPro programmer, but I have never worked >with >embedded circuits. Unless someone has a better idea, it looks like building an >ECU6 system is a good place to start. I have a 75 Dodge Powerwagon that needs >EFI. I need more torque and altitude compensation. I am a tightwad, but I can >afford a HEGO sensor. > >In the \pdf\ folder, you have ECU6.bom. I assume it is the Bill of Materials >for the project. It apparently is NOT a PDF file. Should I have tried MSWord? > >Thanks for sharing your work. I hope you won't mind a question now and then. > >-Mark >Sacramento, CA > > ------------------------------ From: "Jonathan" Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 21:28:24 -0800 Subject: Re: ford efi to tbi swap thanks for the help. I just put the motor in and I am now trying to get the exhast on (I don't under stand why ford put tree cats on this thing) so far the sensors match up to the plugs except for a slight keyway diff on one of the temp sens. not sure if is the dash gage or ecm temp tomorrow i shuld be able to test fire (uh I mean start) the car. ------------------------------ From: "Justin & Julie Carroll" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 23:19:46 -0900 Subject: Best Place to Start This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BE725E.FA393CE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am a electrical/mechanical engineering student at the University of = Alaska, Fairbanks. I want to build a ignition system as part of a = project and maybe use it as a senior project in a year or two. I plan = to build a dyno and use either a Subaru EA-82 or an aircooled volkswagen = as a test platform. =20 Where is the best place to start? What components should I plan on = buying? I realize that I could just buy everything but I really want to = learn how everything works so I would like to build and program as much = as possible.=20 Any suggestion are appreciated. Justin - ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BE725E.FA393CE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am a electrical/mechanical = engineering student=20 at the University of Alaska, Fairbanks.  I want to build a ignition = system=20 as part of a project and maybe use it as a senior project in a year or=20 two.  I plan to build a dyno and use either a Subaru EA-82 or an = aircooled=20 volkswagen as a test platform. 
 
Where is the best place to = start?  What=20 components should I plan on buying?  I realize that I could just = buy=20 everything but I really want to learn how everything works so I would = like to=20 build and program as much as possible.
 
Any suggestion are appreciated.
 
Justin
 
 
- ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BE725E.FA393CE0-- ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #182 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".