DIY_EFI Digest Monday, March 29 1999 Volume 04 : Number 198 In this issue: Re: EPROM Emulator Re: EPROM Emulator Re: "Negative Overlap" or more commonly known as Pressure Balance cams Re: EPROM Emulator laser printer supplies advertisement Re: laser printer supplies advertisement Re: EPROM Emulator Re: laser printer supplies advertisement Re: EFI Intake Conversion (1 of 2) Re: EFI Intake Conversion (1 of 2) Re: "Negative Overlap" or more commonly known as Pressure Balance cams Re: "Negative Overlap" or more commonly known as Pressure Balance cams Re: EPROM Emulator Re: EFI Intake Conversion (1 of 2) See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 20:53:56 +1000 From: Clyde Smith-Stubbs Subject: Re: EPROM Emulator On Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 07:05:26PM -0500, David A. Cooley wrote: > Parts should be about $50.00, not sure what PCB's run to have made... Any > suggestions on how to go about this appreciated, and if anyone wants to run Try www.apcircuits.com - they have a small run (minimum 2 boards) proto service that is quite economical. Cheers, Clyde - -- Clyde Smith-Stubbs | HI-TECH Software Email: clyde@xxx.com | Phone Fax WWW: http://www.htsoft.com/ | USA: (408) 490 2885 (408) 490 2885 PGP: finger clyde@xxx.com | AUS: +61 7 3355 8333 +61 7 3355 8334 - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- HI-TECH C: compiling the real world. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 06:46:41 -0800 (PST) From: andy quaas Subject: Re: EPROM Emulator Please include me. Do you have any links? You can count me in for a board or 2 if you do them up. Andy - --- "David A. Cooley" wrote: > Hey all, > Found a cheap emulator on the web that supports up to > 27512 eproms...... > Have to build it though, just circuit and parts > list... > Ran it through Protel and have the GERBER files for a > double sided PCB... > Parts should be about $50.00, not sure what PCB's run > to have made... Any > suggestions on how to go about this appreciated, and > if anyone wants to run > with this, I can send you the files. > Thanks, > Dave > > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: > N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. > Member #7068 > I am Pentium of Borg...division is > futile...you will be approximated. > =========================================================== > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:14:11 EST From: EFISYSTEMS@xxx.com Subject: Re: "Negative Overlap" or more commonly known as Pressure Balance cams Hi All, There are lots of great theory's out there regarding camshafts....and one of them is to have negative overlap and open the intake valve after tdc, while this sounds good in theory it doesn't generally work dynamically or mechanically.....I don't want to go on forever with this so I will just address a couple key points.....In theory it would be great to open the intake valve after tdc.......if we could SLAM it open with no delay AND have the air/fuel immediatly start filling the cylinder,,,,but such is not the case in any engine....the valve gradually opens and doesn't reach peak lift till over 100 degrees atdc...now yes with turbos and superchargers the air is pressurized into the cylinder, but if you open the intake at the right time it will force a scavenge cleaning and cooling the chamber with much less overlap.......the more boost the less time the overlap cycle has to be......this number is both boost and rpm dependant....it is time that matters not the cam numbers,,,they are just what the result is......one other thing,,,,,if your trying to depend on the piston to get the air moving in the intake manifold, prepare to be spanked at any event you enter......No offense intended to anyone and I do like David Vizard,,,,,,but any engine can make 1000hp with enough boost.........frustrated, and a book about camshafts with 10,000 examples and dynos sheets would be a good start, - -Carl Summers In a message dated 99-03-26 19:01:40 EST, you write: << Subj: Re: "Negative Overlap" or more commonly known as Pressure Balance cams Date: 99-03-26 19:01:40 EST From: vogt@xxx.net (Vogt Family) Sender: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu Reply-to: diy_efi@xxx.edu To: diy_efi@xxx.edu On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, bob@xxx.com (Robert Harris) wrote: > > The concept is quite simple and Dave Vizard in his book about Chevy Cams > covers it extensively. Like all his books - more fact and theory than brand > specific. > > The assumption is that since their is both positive manifold pressure and much > higher exhaust manifold pressure thru much of the power region, use no > overlap. > > Overlap in a NA engine used the exiting exhaust gasses to draw fresh charge > into the cylinder and if the negative pulse from the exhaust is coupled to the > intake, create even more flow. With a turbo, because of back pressure, for > much of the throttle, the exhaust back pressure is higher than the intake > pressure - so overlap actually forces exhaust up the intake manifold. > > So you time the closing of the exhaust valve to get maximum exhaust extraction > and then delay the opening of the intake valve until well past TDC to about > the point where the downward moving piston has reduced the residual exhaust > pressure to the intake pressure. At this point - about 30 after TDC - you > open the valve and the intake pressure - being marginally above the residual > exhaust - forces charge into the engine. Absolute minimum exhaust charge > dilution. > > Closing of the intake is about normal depending on boost pressure - but long > duration late closing is not optimal - pressure fills cylinder and holding > open late reduces the trapped charge and works the intake pressure against the > rising piston. > > What results is a pure otto cycle engine - short cam on intake and normal > exhaust. Very torquey on the low end - Vizard reports 1000+ hp with enough > boost on a 350 chevy so there is no lack of top end power. Bob, are you on the Ford Trucks list also? Very good explanation, thanks a lot. This is what I have been waiting to hear for some time now. I am building a Ford 429 for my projectmobile 4-wheel drive truck. Basically the major concern is maximum torque right off idle. My question is, would this type of cam be a good idea without a turbo, since I am of the limited funds, or should I buy a normal "torque" cam for the first stage of the build, and get a turbo grind later? Also, I have been wondering about the suitability of an automatic transmission with this type of power delivery. My major intended use is super slow crawling. The turbo idea is to also make it "mud-bog-able". Any thoughts, anyone? Birken ----------------------- >> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:19:08 -0500 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: EPROM Emulator At 06:36 PM 3/28/99 +1000, you wrote: >Can you post a URL? Sure can: http://www.paulandmark.u-net.com/electron/Computer/Eprom_Emulator/eprom_emul ator.htm I've re-done the PCB so there are no jumpers, but now it's double sided... Sent out a few quotes last night, and depending on quantity, will change overall price. If I can get a list of those that want boards after looking over the site to make sure it's what you want, then I'll have a guess on price each and can make a group buy on the boards. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:46:27 From: remailer@xxx.com Subject: laser printer supplies advertisement BENCHMARK PRINT SUPPLY LASER PRINTER CARTRIDGES JUST FOR YOU AS WELL AS FAX AND COPIER TONER CHECK OUT THESE NEW PRINT CARTRIDGE PRICES : APPLE LASER WRITER PRO 600 OR 16/600 $69 LASER WRITER SELECT 300,310.360 $64 LASER WRITER 300, 320, 360 $54 LASER WRITER LS,NT,2NTX,2F,2G & 2SC $54 LASER WRITER 12/640 $79 HEWLETT PACKARD LASERJET SERIES 2,3 & 3D $49 LASERJET SERIES 2P AND 3P $54 LASERJET SERIES 3SI AND 4SI $75 LASERJET SERIES 4L AND 4P $49 LASERJET SERIES 4, 4M, 5, 5M $59 LASERJET SERIES 4000 HIGH YIELD $99 LASERJET SERIES 4V $95 LASERJET SERIES 5SI , 8000 $95 LASERJET SERIES 5L AND 6L $49 LASERJET SERIES 5P, 5MP, 6P, 6MP $59 LASERJET SERIES 5000 $89 HP LASERFAX LASERFAX 500, 700, FX1, $59 LASERFAX 5000, 7000, FX2, $59 LASERFAX FX3 $69 LASERFAX FX4 $79 LEXMARK OPTRA 4019, 4029 HIGH YIELD $135 OPTRA R, 4039, 4049 HIGH YIELD $135 OPTRA S 4059 HIGH YIELD $135 OPTRA E $59 OPTRA N $115 EPSON EPL-70000, 8000 $105 EPL-1000, 1500 $105 CANON LBP-430 $49 LBP-460, 465 $59 LBP-8 II $54 LBP-LX $54 LBP-MX $95 LBP-AX $49 LBP-EX $59 LBP-SX $49 LBP-BX $95 LBP-PX $49 LBP-WX $95 LBP-VX $59 CANON FAX L700 THRU L790 FX1 $59 CANONFAX L5000 L70000 FX2 $59 CANON COPIERS PC 20, 25 ETC.... $89 PC 3, 6RE, 7, 11 (A30) $69 PC 320 THRU 700 (E40) $89 NEC SERIES 2 LASER MODEL 95 $105 PLACE YOUR ORDER BY : PHONE 770-399-0953 FAX: 770-698-9700 E-MAIL: BENCHMARK1@xxx.NET WITH SUBJECTLINE: ORDER MAIL: 1091 REDSTONE LANE, ATLANTA GA 30338 MAKE SURE YOU INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION IN YOUR ORDER: 1) PHONE NUMBER 2) COMPANY NAME 3) SHIPPING ADDRESS 4) YOUR NAME 5) ITEMS NEEDED WITH QUANTITIES 6) METHOD OF PAYMENT. (COD OR CREDIT CARD) 7) CREDIT CARD NUMBER WITH EXPIRATION DATE WE SHIP UPS GROUND STANDARD. ADD $4.5 FOR SHIPPING AND HANDLING. FOR ORDER QUESTIONS CALL 770-399-0953 FOR CUSTOMER SERVICE 770-399-5505 FOR E-MAIL REMOVAL USE: BENCHMARK2@xxx.NET OR CALL 770-399-5614 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 15:39:34 -0600 From: "Jeffrey T. Birt" Subject: Re: laser printer supplies advertisement take me off your spam list. - -----Original Message----- From: remailer@xxx.com> Date: Sunday, March 28, 1999 3:23 PM Subject: laser printer supplies advertisement >BENCHMARK PRINT SUPPLY >LASER PRINTER CARTRIDGES JUST FOR YOU AS > WELL AS FAX AND COPIER TONER > > CHECK OUT THESE NEW PRINT CARTRIDGE PRICES : > > >APPLE > > LASER WRITER PRO 600 OR 16/600 $69 > LASER WRITER SELECT 300,310.360 $64 > LASER WRITER 300, 320, 360 $54 > LASER WRITER LS,NT,2NTX,2F,2G & 2SC $54 > LASER WRITER 12/640 $79 > >HEWLETT PACKARD > > LASERJET SERIES 2,3 & 3D $49 > LASERJET SERIES 2P AND 3P $54 > LASERJET SERIES 3SI AND 4SI $75 > LASERJET SERIES 4L AND 4P $49 > LASERJET SERIES 4, 4M, 5, 5M $59 > LASERJET SERIES 4000 HIGH YIELD $99 > LASERJET SERIES 4V $95 > LASERJET SERIES 5SI , 8000 $95 > LASERJET SERIES 5L AND 6L $49 > LASERJET SERIES 5P, 5MP, 6P, 6MP $59 > LASERJET SERIES 5000 $89 > >HP LASERFAX > > LASERFAX 500, 700, FX1, $59 > LASERFAX 5000, 7000, FX2, $59 > LASERFAX FX3 $69 > LASERFAX FX4 $79 > > >LEXMARK > > OPTRA 4019, 4029 HIGH YIELD $135 > OPTRA R, 4039, 4049 HIGH YIELD $135 > OPTRA S 4059 HIGH YIELD $135 > OPTRA E $59 > OPTRA N $115 > > >EPSON > > EPL-70000, 8000 $105 > EPL-1000, 1500 $105 > > >CANON > > LBP-430 $49 > LBP-460, 465 $59 > LBP-8 II $54 > LBP-LX $54 > LBP-MX $95 > LBP-AX $49 > LBP-EX $59 > LBP-SX $49 > LBP-BX $95 > LBP-PX $49 > LBP-WX $95 > LBP-VX $59 > CANON FAX L700 THRU L790 FX1 $59 > CANONFAX L5000 L70000 FX2 $59 > > >CANON COPIERS > > PC 20, 25 ETC.... $89 > PC 3, 6RE, 7, 11 (A30) $69 > PC 320 THRU 700 (E40) $89 > > >NEC > > SERIES 2 LASER MODEL 95 $105 > > > > > > >PLACE YOUR ORDER BY : PHONE 770-399-0953 > FAX: 770-698-9700 > E-MAIL: BENCHMARK1@xxx.NET WITH >SUBJECTLINE: ORDER > MAIL: 1091 REDSTONE LANE, ATLANTA GA >30338 > >MAKE SURE YOU INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION IN YOUR ORDER: > > 1) PHONE NUMBER > 2) COMPANY NAME > 3) SHIPPING ADDRESS > 4) YOUR NAME > 5) ITEMS NEEDED WITH QUANTITIES > 6) METHOD OF PAYMENT. (COD OR CREDIT CARD) > 7) CREDIT CARD NUMBER WITH EXPIRATION DATE > >WE SHIP UPS GROUND STANDARD. ADD $4.5 FOR SHIPPING AND HANDLING. >FOR ORDER QUESTIONS CALL 770-399-0953 >FOR CUSTOMER SERVICE 770-399-5505 > > >FOR E-MAIL REMOVAL USE: BENCHMARK2@xxx.NET OR CALL >770-399-5614 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:42:54 -0800 From: rr Subject: Re: EPROM Emulator Put me down for one... Thanks, BobR. David Cooley wrote: >If I can get a list of those that want boards after looking over the site >to make sure it's what you want, then I'll have a guess on price each and >can make a group buy on the boards. - -- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:55:11 -0800 (PST) From: Orin Eman Subject: Re: laser printer supplies advertisement It was bad enough the first time without you reposting the whole thing to the list. Spam rules for spam received thru diy_efi, efi332 or gmecm: DO NOT RESPOND. The list admistrators will deal with it. Orin, list admin. > take me off your spam list. > -----Original Message----- > From: remailer@xxx.com> > Date: Sunday, March 28, 1999 3:23 PM > Subject: laser printer supplies advertisement ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:38:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@xxx.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Re: EFI Intake Conversion (1 of 2) - -> > I saw a neat little drill bit at a Accell or something, truck at - -> the > Craftsman Nationals last summer. It was a stepped injector - -> drill bit, > for cutting injector holes in intakes. Nice, except MSD's bit costs close to $150. Then it turns out the injectors will work just fine in straight tubes; lots of OEMs do it that way. It seems all those steps and angles aren't necessary. ==dave.williams@xxx.us====================================== I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 17:55:12 -0800 (PST) From: James Weiler Subject: Re: EFI Intake Conversion (1 of 2) I did see that actually. It was $225 Can. Cost me the drill bit ($15). jw On Sat, 27 Mar 1999, rr wrote: > Actually, if you saw the price, you may feel that it was necessary. > MSD sells these also, along with a bunch of other efi stuff. > > BobR. > > > James Weiler wrote: > > > > I made myself one of these but now realize that it was unecessary. I > > used a 27/32 bit and had a friend with a lathe cut the tip down to 13 > > mm. Then used a grinding wheel to put a proper edge on the cutting surface. > > hope that made sense, > > jw > > > > On Sat, 27 Mar 1999, DC Smith wrote: > > > > > Hey Guys, > > > > > > I saw a neat little drill bit at a Accell or something, truck at the > > > Craftsman Nationals last summer. It was a stepped injector drill bit, > > > for cutting injector holes in intakes. Can't give you any more info than > > > that I saw one and know they exist. > > > Prolly nothing special, looked like a double ended, stepped, industrial > > > type drill bit to me. Wish I could give you more info.. > > > > > > Dan > > > > > > Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > > > > > > > own bosses from 6061 tubing (27/32 O.D., why that size I don't know, may > > > > > be it was supossed to be 7/8). The holes I drilled in the intake were > > > > > > > > Nope, prolly 27/32 is right for that tubing if you are > > > > talking inside diameter - that's the right hole to drill if > > > > you want to tap the tubing to 7/8, therefore that tubing was > > > > for tie rods, suspension pieces, etc. > > > > > > > > Neat little useless fact :) > > > > > > > > > I finished to inside of the boss with a 14mm ream and lots of cutting > > > > > fluid to make a smooth cut. > > > > > > > > Yeah, I ground a lot off too top and bottom. Not exactly > > > > the way I want, but all eight injectors are the same height, > > > > so right or wrong, its consistant. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Frederic Breitwieser > > > > Bridgeport, CT 06606 > > > > > > > > http://www.xephic.dynip.com > > > > 1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental > > > > 1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV > > > > 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab (soon to be twin turbo 440) > > > > 2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) > > > > > > -- > > > *********************************************************************** > > > Dan Smith 84 Regal 12.13@112 GSCA# 1459 > > > St.Charles, Missouri > > > mailto:dcsmith@xxx.net > > > http://www.tetranet.net/users/morepoweral > > > *********************************************************************** > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:02:20 -0600 From: Tom Sharpe Subject: Re: "Negative Overlap" or more commonly known as Pressure Balance cams EFISYSTEMS@xxx.com wrote: > Hi All, > There are lots of great theory's out there regarding camshafts....and > one of them is to have negative overlap and open the intake valve after tdc, > while this sounds good in theory it doesn't generally work dynamically or > mechanically.....I don't want to go on forever with this so I will just > address a couple key points.....In theory it would be great to open the intake > valve after tdc.......if we could SLAM it open with no delay AND have the > air/fuel immediatly start filling the cylinder,,,,but such is not the case in > any engine....the valve gradually opens and doesn't reach peak lift till over > 100 degrees atdc... A quick point about 302 fords 454 chevys and other "short" rod motors. their camshafts are designed to open the intake as quickly as possible because the short rod tends to "yank" the piston away from TDC and "yank" the air column to get it moving.... which is really hard to do with the valve half open!!! sharpe ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 23:25:07 EST From: EFISYSTEMS@xxx.com Subject: Re: "Negative Overlap" or more commonly known as Pressure Balance cams Hi again, Rod stroke ratio is a key factor but is not a constant,,,,,,rod/stroke ratio vs stroke plays a key factor in NA applications espesially in limited airflow apps......it might surprise a person that a worse rod/stroke ratio in a limited air app causes for a later intake closing event because of stroke(only item being changed)...even though the piston doesn't dwell at the top as long because of the rod/stroke ratio the swept volume takes over.......more stuff to think of....... - -Carl Summers In a message dated 99-03-28 23:06:00 EST, you write: << > air/fuel immediatly start filling the cylinder,,,,but such is not the case in > any engine....the valve gradually opens and doesn't reach peak lift till over > 100 degrees atdc... A quick point about 302 fords 454 chevys and other "short" rod motors. their camshafts are designed to open the intake as quickly as possible because the short rod tends to "yank" the piston away from TDC and "yank" the air column to get it moving.... which is really hard to do with the valve half open!!! sharpe >> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 04:46:56 +1200 From: "Eddie Sy" Subject: Re: EPROM Emulator David, I will be interested too...please advise on this...thanks Eddie - -----Original Message----- From: David A. Cooley To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Sunday, 28 March 1999 12:29 Subject: EPROM Emulator >Hey all, >Found a cheap emulator on the web that supports up to 27512 eproms...... >Have to build it though, just circuit and parts list... >Ran it through Protel and have the GERBER files for a double sided PCB... >Parts should be about $50.00, not sure what PCB's run to have made... Any >suggestions on how to go about this appreciated, and if anyone wants to run >with this, I can send you the files. >Thanks, >Dave > >=========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. >=========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 21:26:59 -0800 (PST) From: James Weiler Subject: Re: EFI Intake Conversion (1 of 2) This is so true! jw On Sun, 28 Mar 1999, Dave Williams wrote: > > -> > I saw a neat little drill bit at a Accell or something, truck at > -> the > Craftsman Nationals last summer. It was a stepped injector > -> drill bit, > for cutting injector holes in intakes. > > Nice, except MSD's bit costs close to $150. Then it turns out the > injectors will work just fine in straight tubes; lots of OEMs do it that > way. It seems all those steps and angles aren't necessary. > > ==dave.williams@xxx.us====================================== > I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? > my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? > =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm > > ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #198 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".