DIY_EFI Digest Saturday, April 3 1999 Volume 04 : Number 207 In this issue: Re: ABS Wheel sensor signal generator AArghives Re: Toyota Supra twin turbo and water injection. Re: ABS Wheel sensor signal generator Re: AArghives RE: Camshafts Re: Toyota Supra twin turbo and water injection. Re: Injector driver question... turbo and water injection. 73 Chevy v8 question RE: Camshafts Re: 73 Chevy v8 question '50s MOPAR Hemi question Re: Toyota Supra twin turbo and water injection. Re: Toyota Supra twin turbo and water injection. Re: EPROM Emulator Re: Toyota Supra twin turbo and water injection. Re: '50s MOPAR Hemi question Re: ABS Wheel sensor signal generator Re: Toyota Supra twin turbo and water injection. Re: Toyota Supra twin turbo and water injection. Re: '50s MOPAR Hemi question Re: ABS Wheel sensor signal generator See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 05:41:24 -0500 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: ABS Wheel sensor signal generator This is legwork information. There's a very good chance that the exact answer won't be found on this list. You can: try searching the archives spend time at a Cadillac dealer asking questions and looking in a service manual (and being very polite) order a service manual through the dealer see if there's good training manuals available for that system: address is below Easiest way is to look at axle at parts store to count # of sensor teeth, and get diameter of correct size tire for car, then do math. Lots of folks on this list willing to help, but buried in projects of their own. factory training manuals: MSX International 1425 Pacific Dr. Auburn Hills, MI 48326 Phone (800) 393-4831 Fax (248)377-1510 Shannen Chris Moore wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > I want to say thanks for all the people who have answered some of my > questions. It looks like I now need some kind of signal generator to > produce the same signal an ABS sensor would produce. It looks like I > need the signal to be made for 18 miles/hour or more. How can I find > this out without actually having a car to check? Can someone give me an > idea or maybe someone already knows. Remember, the Northstar and trans > are from a 1995 Seville STS. Thanks. > > Chris Moore > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 05:58:55 -0500 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: AArghives It's almost 6:00 am EST, and the archives seemed to "shut down". diy_efi: The following database is not available: /usr/local/mail/files/wais/diy_efi Anyone else see this? Any answers as to what/why? Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 08:04:10 -0400 From: "Pedro Haynes" Subject: Re: Toyota Supra twin turbo and water injection. I have been searching for place I Japan where I can buy some engines Can you direct me to the right place? No I do not want a 20 foot container full of engines. >> Yikes, now ya got me thinking. I've done it pre cooler, but none of the >> stuff has had a clear enough shot to see into the cooler's core. Have you >> seen this happen?. > >Yes, I got an IC from a single turbo RX7 in hopes of >using it on a small engine turbo project. They have this >12x9x3 air/air intercooler that sits on top of the engine >and seals against the hood.. Anyway, the inside of it >was really ugly, so I went back to look at the engine it >came from, and there was a water injection "jet" plumbed >into the the turbo-to-IC pipe.. The guys who yanked the >engine over in Japan, and shipped it to Dave had simply >snipped the water tube close to the jet, so it was hardly > noticable. >Mike V > >> Being steam can one of the chemical types say what we might expect?. >> Simple answer would be distilled water, I quess. >> Bruce >> >> >> >> Having twin,sequential turbos suggests I inject water *after* >> >> the intercooler,maybe just in front of the throttle body? Or should I >> >> be injecting elsewhere? >> >Hi Chris, >> >Sounds like the right place. You don't want to crud-up the >> >inside of the IC core. They are not intended to be hosed >> >with water. The crud that tap water causes to form on >> >aluminum will reduce the thermal efficiency of the IC also. >> >After the IC, but before the TB is a good location. >> >GL > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 05:20:16 PST From: "Chris Moore" Subject: Re: ABS Wheel sensor signal generator Hi Shannen, I have the GM manuals for the 1995 Seville. It is very nice. It still does not have the info that I need in it. The wheel sensor is different than most. It is internal in the wheel bearing and I cannot count the teeth. How else can I get this signal? Dealers probably won't have a clue. They usually never do. Especially when I tell them what I am doing. Is there some how I can use the bearing and just spin it by hand to get a signal and do some math to make sure I can make a generator that is set over the 18 mile/hour mark? Thanks Chris Moore >From: Shannen Durphey >Reply-To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu >Subject: Re: ABS Wheel sensor signal generator >Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 05:41:24 -0500 > >This is legwork information. There's a very good chance that the >exact answer won't be found on this list. >You can: >try searching the archives >spend time at a Cadillac dealer asking questions and looking in a >service manual (and being very polite) >order a service manual through the dealer >see if there's good training manuals available for that system: >address is below > >Easiest way is to look at axle at parts store to count # of sensor >teeth, and get diameter of correct size tire for car, then do math. >Lots of folks on this list willing to help, but buried in projects of >their own. > >factory training manuals: >MSX International >1425 Pacific Dr. >Auburn Hills, MI 48326 >Phone (800) 393-4831 >Fax (248)377-1510 > >Shannen >Chris Moore wrote: >> >> Hi Everyone, >> I want to say thanks for all the people who have answered some of my >> questions. It looks like I now need some kind of signal generator to >> produce the same signal an ABS sensor would produce. It looks like I >> need the signal to be made for 18 miles/hour or more. How can I find >> this out without actually having a car to check? Can someone give me an >> idea or maybe someone already knows. Remember, the Northstar and trans >> are from a 1995 Seville STS. Thanks. >> >> Chris Moore >> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 08:40:26 -0500 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: AArghives - ----- Original Message ----- From: Shannen Durphey To: Sent: Saturday, April 03, 1999 5:58 AM Subject: AArghives It's about 0830, and they're back up from here at least. Bruce > It's almost 6:00 am EST, and the archives seemed to "shut down". > diy_efi: The following database is not available: > /usr/local/mail/files/wais/diy_efi > Anyone else see this? > Any answers as to what/why? > > Shannen > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 13:51:38 GMT From: bob@xxx.com (Robert Harris) Subject: RE: Camshafts My point perzactly Bruce. I've ran across his input many times from do'ers. Latest was when I was talking to the man who put dual plugs in his 460 heads who had a number of conversations with him about it. I agree with you about rag riters and have not met many of them that do anything other than spout advertising. If you start from a known accurate baseline such as obtained from a reputable cam builder or author, and you know how it works, then you can do things that ain't posed to work cause you found the twist. Ignorance of how things work is bliss only to a salesman. I personally put Rhodes Lifters on a Kettering 429 and noticed an immediate improvement in milage and low end drivablity - so I KNOW they work. From Vizard I found out how and why. A Vizardian twist. Excess overlap and to a lessor extend late intake closing are primarily responsible for loss of low end power on using a long duration cam. If you put Rhodes ( other ) lifters on the EXHAUST only, you can regain about 75% of that loss. Why - understanding that the reduction in duration comes primarily at closing - means that using a leak down lifter on the exhaust only - trims a bunch of overlap at low rpm. A nice advantageous change is made in both the lobe center and timing as the lifters closing duration is increased with increasing rpm. Another Vizardian note. Unless you markedly improve the oiling system - you will never gain the full lift and duration of the leak down lifter. Huh?? Aeration. If there is any air in the oil, the lifter won't fully pump up. Remember these little suckers use a lot more oil than stock lifters to work. So if you don't clean up the aeration in a stock system by at least a windage tray and scraper, you don't get the full advantage of the lifter. So maybe there might be some good in talking to a reputable cam builder as Dr Bruce suggests or RTFBing prior to buying into something. Just a thought. 1963 Ford C-600 Prison Bus Conversion "Home" 1971 Lincoln Continental 460 "Christine" 1972 "Whale" Mustang awaiting transplant 1978 Dodge Long Bed Peeek Up "Bundymobile" Habaneros - not just for breakfast anymore ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 09:14:26 -0600 From: Clarence Wood Subject: Re: Toyota Supra twin turbo and water injection. Having studied the water injection techniques used by others, and getting ready to install my own system: injecting water pre-intercooler is counter productive as the inter-cooler *cools* and this is not what you want to do to the water being injected. You also do not, I am sure everyone knows this but just in case there is someone who does not, want to inject water pre turbo! The water will destroy the turbo blades. I am injecting the water *after* the throttle body. Any obstruction will, or could, collect droplets, so the throttle plate could distract from business. I would think that the best place to inject water would be immediately after the throttle plate; anyway, that is where I plan to install my nozzle. At 10:59 PM 4/2/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-----Original Message----- >From: ECMnut@xxx.com> >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> >Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 10:37 PM >Subject: Re: Toyota Supra twin turbo and water injection. > >Yikes, now ya got me thinking. I've done it pre cooler, but none of the >stuff has had a clear enough shot to see into the cooler's core. Have you >seen this happen?. >Being steam can one of the chemical types say what we might expect?. >Simple answer would be distilled water, I quess. >Bruce > > >>> Having twin,sequential turbos suggests I inject water *after* >>> the intercooler,maybe just in front of the throttle body? Or should I >>> be injecting elsewhere? >>Hi Chris, >>Sounds like the right place. You don't want to crud-up the >>inside of the IC core. They are not intended to be hosed >>with water. The crud that tap water causes to form on >>aluminum will reduce the thermal efficiency of the IC also. >>After the IC, but before the TB is a good location. >>GL >>Mike V > > > IZCC #3426 1982 280ZX Turbo GL 1966 El Camino 1982 Yamaha Maxim XJ-1101J Motorcycle 1975 Honda CB750 SS (black engine) 1986 Snapper Comet lawn mower Clarence Wood Software&Such... clarencewood@xxx.net Savannah, TN. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:30:30 -0800 From: "Walter Sherwin" Subject: Re: Injector driver question... >At 20:02 99-04-02 -0800, you wrote: >>>Hi all, >>> >>> I have designed and tested an injector driver based on the LM1949. I >>>want to be able to run low impedance as well as high impedance type >>>injectors. I tested it with low resistance (2.4 ohms) injector and the >>>operation was as expected (at least on the scope screen!) with a peak >>>current of 4 A and hold at 1.0 A. The rise time is 0.8 mS. >>> >>>When I tested it with a high impedance injector (14.9 ohms), the peek >>>current was about 2.5 A and it took 4mS (seems very long to me...) to >>>rise to this value. After that 4 mS period, the timer fonction of the >>>LM1949 lowered the current to the hold mode of 1 A, as expected. >>> >>>My question is : why the current is so high with the high impedance >>>injector ? If we divide the battery voltage by the impedance of the >>>injector, we get 12 / 14.9 = 0.8 A, which is the value of the current in >>>the steady state. >>> >>> Hugo Villeneuve. >> >> >> >> >>Your P&H values sound like they are right on the money for an LM1949 with >>4/1 P&H ( did your 4-1 timer shift take place at roughly 3.9 ms?). On >>the other hand, your saturated values sound a bit off. Did you change >>anything between the two experiments (except for the injector)? I assume >>you had only one high impedance injector hooked-up during your saturated >>tests? Seems kinda strange. I'd be really interested in knowing more about >>your test setup. Injectors have an equivalent circuit that can be modelled >>as an RL circuit (no capacitance). From what I've seen/tested, the current >>response usually follows the classical "RL" equivalent circuit model????? >> >> >>Walt. > > > > >Hi Walt, > > I know that the timer shift for the low impedance injector did not occur >because the peak current was higher than the 4 A required to activate the >hold mode. I didn't change anything between the two tests. I have also >tested two differents models of high impedance injectors, with >approximatively the same results. I found some information for the values >of the injectors (general guidelines only!) : > > Low impedance : L = 2mH and R = 2.4 Ohms -> time constant = L/R = 0.83 mS > > High impedance: L = 10mH and R = 15 Ohms -> time constant = 0.66 mS > >We see that the two time constants are almost the same... For the low >impedance injector, I cannot say what was the final value of the current, >because peak detection reduced the current past 4 A. But for the high >impedance type, after 4 mS it is evident from the curve I obtained that the >current have reached the steady state condition and ,since 4 mS is about >five time constant, the curve seems to be logical for a classical RL >circuit (except for the high current...). So if the current in the low >impedance injector had a chance to rise without peak detection activated, >maybe it will be more than 12V/2.4 = 5 A? > >I think the circuit should work like this for high impedance injectors, but >I don't know the effect of lowering the current to 1 A for these kind of >injectors since the notion of peak and hold is never discussed for these >injectors... anyone with an idea? > >For my test setup, I used a digital storage oscilloscope with a probe >directly between the 0.1 Ohms sense resistor to measure the current of the >injector, like the LM1949 is doing! . The input signal was at 50% duty >cycle, with a frequency of 83 Hz (5000 RPM). > > Hugo. > > > > > What sort of saturated current profile do you see, if you disable the timer shift function of the LM1949, and let the system run in free state? Walt. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:56:14 -0500 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: turbo and water injection. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Clarence Wood To: Sent: Saturday, April 03, 1999 10:14 AM Subject: Re: Toyota Supra twin turbo and water injection. I quess then there are two theories about what folks might want to do. A. Use the water to cool the intake charge, and boost VE. B. Use it as a detonation suppressant. Or some combination of the above (other than the inherit overlap). Gee, this amost looks like a mirror about the vaporization/atomization fuel thread..... Sleepy > Having studied the water injection techniques used by others, and getting ready to install my own system: injecting water pre-intercooler is counter productive as the inter-cooler *cools* and this is not what you want to do to the water being injected. You also do not, I am sure everyone knows this but just in case there is someone who does not, want to inject water pre turbo! The water will destroy the turbo blades. > I am injecting the water *after* the throttle body. Any obstruction will, or could, collect droplets, so the throttle plate could distract from business. I would think that the best place to inject water would be immediately after the throttle plate; anyway, that is where I plan to install my nozzle. > > At 10:59 PM 4/2/99 -0500, you wrote: > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: ECMnut@xxx.com> > >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > >Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 10:37 PM > >Subject: Re: Toyota Supra twin turbo and water injection. > > > >Yikes, now ya got me thinking. I've done it pre cooler, but none of the > >stuff has had a clear enough shot to see into the cooler's core. Have you > >seen this happen?. > >Being steam can one of the chemical types say what we might expect?. > >Simple answer would be distilled water, I quess. > >Bruce > > > > > >>> Having twin,sequential turbos suggests I inject water *after* > >>> the intercooler,maybe just in front of the throttle body? Or should I > >>> be injecting elsewhere? > >>Hi Chris, > >>Sounds like the right place. You don't want to crud-up the > >>inside of the IC core. They are not intended to be hosed > >>with water. The crud that tap water causes to form on > >>aluminum will reduce the thermal efficiency of the IC also. > >>After the IC, but before the TB is a good location. > >>GL > >>Mike V > > > > > > > IZCC #3426 > 1982 280ZX Turbo GL > 1966 El Camino > 1982 Yamaha Maxim XJ-1101J Motorcycle > 1975 Honda CB750 SS (black engine) > 1986 Snapper Comet lawn mower > Clarence Wood > Software&Such... > clarencewood@xxx.net > Savannah, TN. > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 08:48:17 -0800 From: "Stowe, Ted-SEA" Subject: 73 Chevy v8 question Thanks very much to everyone for helping me id my Chevy 350. I believe it to be a '73 350 out of a passenger car, which one I can't tell, I am assuming a 2 bolt main. whether it was rebuilt or not I can't tell. the head casting # is 3973487 the carb id, (2bl Rochester ) is 7043114 the block id is 3970010 the intake is 3997773 the distributor I can't find listed anywhere, it is a 1111440 8c19, the 8c19 would normally tell me that the distributor was built on march 19th 1978, but how that got there I can't tell. It is a single point dist. I cannot get the waterpump nor the exhaust manifold numbers. a great numbers book is 'Chevrolet by the numbers' really nice for this sort of thing. I have a question about the intake manifold, this is not a efi question, I wish it was but I am trying to do the right thing here. Putting an efi system on my mgb has taught me to pay lots attention to details and think before doing anything. I took the carb off and sent it out to be rebuilt, as it idled funny +,- 300+ rpm, and I took the intake manifold off and had it tanked because it was just too dirty. I did this also because the egr valve appeared not to work, and after seeing the egr valve passages from the outside all clogged, I just thought that was the problem. now with a clean manifold I think I see something else. this 'egr' manifold, has two small ports on the passenger side, that would appear to mate with 2 ports on the head on that side. these ports are right under the egr valve on that side. however there are no ports on either head for such a purpose, and no holes in the old intake manifold gaskets either. so even with the intake's egr ports cleaned up, nothing is going to happen. so is this a clear case of a different set of heads/manifold ? or is this not a problem ? does anyone sell an egr valve block off plate ? I'd hate to kind of leave this condition existing as the egr passages are just going to load up with carbon again. also, in looking at the HP ratings for 350's around that time, (73), what happened to the HP ratings ? this engine would appear to have a hp rating of 145. the 350's prior seemed to have about 25+ more, was this a different method of measuring hp ? or was this the result of the emission requirements at the time ?? I accidentally got a set of felpro intake manifold gaskets that appear to be for a intake manifold that blocks off the exhaust crossover. I would guess that this was done to help cold running conditions, any advice on retaining this or not ? thanks for all you're help. when finances and time permits I would just love to efi this. this is a 350 in a 72 xj6 with a turbo 350, I plan to put a 4 speed auto in it sometime. Ted Stowe ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 10:53:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@xxx.us (Dave Williams) Subject: RE: Camshafts - -> will never gain the full lift and duration of the leak down lifter. - -> Huh?? Aeration. If there is any air in the oil, the lifter won't - -> fully pump up. Remember these little suckers use a lot more oil than - -> stock lifters to work. That's why you sometimes hear cars come into the pits at a track event going "tickety-tickety-tickety" at idle. They've aerated the crankcase oil until the lifters aren't able to stay completely pumped up at idle, and they're soft enough to miss the cam's opening and closing ramps. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 12:22:52 -0500 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: 73 Chevy v8 question At 08:48 AM 4/3/99 -0800, you wrote: >now with a clean manifold I think I see something else. this 'egr' manifold, >has two small ports on the passenger side, that would appear to mate with 2 >ports on the head on that side. these ports are right under the egr valve on >that side. > >however there are no ports on either head for such a purpose, and no holes >in the old intake manifold gaskets either. so even with the intake's egr >ports cleaned up, nothing is going to happen. > >so is this a clear case of a different set of heads/manifold ? or is this >not a problem ? >does anyone sell an egr valve block off plate ? I'd hate to kind of leave >this condition existing as the egr passages are just going to load up with >carbon again. The ports you are talking about I think are the exhaust feed to the EGR valve... If they aren't in the head, then there is no need for an EGR block off plate. They shouldn't carbon up either, with no exhaust going to them. Sounds like someone swapped the heads with Non-EGR models... =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:02:09 EST From: Tedscj@xxx.com Subject: '50s MOPAR Hemi question This isn't really EFI related, but can anyone point me to detailed information on '50s Mopar information? My Web searches are only turning up '60s info. Specifically, I found a '57 Dodge Custom Royal with a 325 Hemi and a single 4bbl for sale fairly cheap. I'm trying to find out if that makes it the D500 option or if ALL Royal Customs came with Hemis. If it had the dual 4bbl motor, then I'd be sure it was a D500 but it's only a single four which leaves me confused. The serial # on the motor was KD500-1151 which IS a Dodge Hemi motor for the 57 model year. I just don't know if this makes the CAR a D500 which seriously affects it's value. Thanks for any direction to the info. Ted ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:59:40 -0700 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Toyota Supra twin turbo and water injection. > Having studied the water injection techniques used by others, and >getting ready to install my own system: injecting water pre-intercooler >is counter productive as the inter-cooler *cools* and this is not what you >want to do to the water being injected. You also do not, I am sure >everyone knows this but just in case there is someone who does not, want >to inject water pre turbo! The water will destroy the turbo blades. > I am injecting the water *after* the throttle body. Any obstruction >will, or could, collect droplets, so the throttle plate could distract >from business. I would think that the best place to inject water would be >immediately after the throttle plate; anyway, that is where I plan to >install my nozzle. Other possibilities, once the water is on board include: 1. Have the cooling air side of an air to air intercooler coated with stuff called "heresite" (stops corrosion), and spray water on the upstream face of the cooling air side of the IC--This will depress the temp of the cooling air to somewhere near the ambient wet bulb temp, and give you cooler charge air WITHOUT adding any moisture to the combustion air. Significant gains to be had here--maybe 3 or 4%. 2. A small amount of water (maybe 10% of fuel mass flow rate) after the intercooler will yield some evaporative cooling of the charge air, and give you a net gain of maybe 1% after correcting for the amount of oxygen which is displaced by the resulting water vapor. 3. Beyond these amounts, applied in the places described, any injected water is only desireable as finely atomized droplets which do not evaporate until they are inside the cylinder, and not until after the intake valve has closed. If you can achieve this situation, a water injection rate of about 80% of the fuel mass flow rate can be extremely beneficial to power output--like maybe an 8 or 10% increase--but it is not exactly easy to accomplish this sort of water injection. Something along the lines of compressed air atomization of port injected water, with the injection timed to coincide with high intake port air velocity would be necessary to get it done. The actual optimum water mass flow rate will vary with an engine's effective compression ratio. Any amount of water above and beyond that which will saturate the combustion chamber volume at TDC (at the (much lower because of the injected water) TDC temperature) will reduce power output. The gain in power output from this (3.) approach is the net effect of a vast reduction in the work which the engine must do on its compression stroke balanced against a loss in Carnot efficiency due to lower peak cycle temperatures. There is still more power to be had from this approach, though, because the lower temps AND the anti -detonation qualities of the water will allow you to go to quite a bit higher compression ratio on a practical basis. Regards, Greg > >At 10:59 PM 4/2/99 -0500, you wrote: >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: ECMnut@xxx.com> >>To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> >>Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 10:37 PM >>Subject: Re: Toyota Supra twin turbo and water injection. >> >>Yikes, now ya got me thinking. I've done it pre cooler, but none of the >>stuff has had a clear enough shot to see into the cooler's core. Have you >>seen this happen?. >>Being steam can one of the chemical types say what we might expect?. >>Simple answer would be distilled water, I quess. >>Bruce >> >> >>>> Having twin,sequential turbos suggests I inject water *after* >>>> the intercooler,maybe just in front of the throttle body? Or should I >>>> be injecting elsewhere? >>>Hi Chris, >>>Sounds like the right place. You don't want to crud-up the >>>inside of the IC core. They are not intended to be hosed >>>with water. The crud that tap water causes to form on >>>aluminum will reduce the thermal efficiency of the IC also. >>>After the IC, but before the TB is a good location. >>>GL >>>Mike V >> >> >> >IZCC #3426 > 1982 280ZX Turbo GL > 1966 El Camino > 1982 Yamaha Maxim XJ-1101J Motorcycle > 1975 Honda CB750 SS (black engine) > 1986 Snapper Comet lawn mower >Clarence Wood >Software&Such... >clarencewood@xxx.net >Savannah, TN. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 14:39:56 -0500 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: Toyota Supra twin turbo and water injection. At 11:59 AM 4/3/99 -0700, you wrote: > >2. A small amount of water (maybe 10% of fuel mass flow rate) after the >intercooler will yield some evaporative cooling of the charge air, and give >you a net gain of maybe 1% after correcting for the amount of oxygen which >is displaced by the resulting water vapor. How about substituting Methanol or Ethanol for the water... higher heat of vaporization (cools better as it evaporates) Plus it supplies additional fuel to the engine *AND* increases effective octane of the cylinder charge... Pretty good gains to be seen here if it's metered right! =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 14:41:17 -0500 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: EPROM Emulator Hi Bob, Got your check... Did you want to be one of the "beta" testers or hold off until we find out which unit functions best for all? Thanks, Dave At 04:42 PM 3/28/99 -0800, you wrote: >Put me down for one... > >Thanks, > >BobR. > >David Cooley wrote: >>If I can get a list of those that want boards after looking over the site >>to make sure it's what you want, then I'll have a guess on price each and >>can make a group buy on the boards. > >-- > > =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 21:32:15 +0100 From: Chris Wilson Subject: Re: Toyota Supra twin turbo and water injection. In article <4.1.19990403143820.00951540@xxx. Cooley apparently wrote: > How about substituting Methanol or Ethanol for the water... higher heat of > vaporization (cools better as it evaporates) Plus it supplies additional > fuel to the engine *AND* increases effective octane of the cylinder > charge... Pretty good gains to be seen here if it's metered right! That is pretty common over here in the UK.I do not know if such additives would be "liked" by the Lambda sensor though? Anyone ? - -- Best Regards, Chris Wilson. http://www.maximum-bhp.u-net.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 15:28:14 EST From: JRECPA@xxx.com Subject: Re: '50s MOPAR Hemi question In a message dated 4/3/99 11:06:32 AM US Mountain Standard Time, Tedscj@xxx.com writes: << This isn't really EFI related, but can anyone point me to detailed information on '50s Mopar information? My Web searches are only turning up '60s info. Specifically, I found a '57 Dodge Custom Royal with a 325 Hemi and a single 4bbl for sale fairly cheap. I'm trying to find out if that makes it the D500 option or if ALL Royal Customs came with Hemis. If it had the dual 4bbl motor, then I'd be sure it was a D500 but it's only a single four which leaves me confused. The serial # on the motor was KD500-1151 which IS a Dodge Hemi motor for the 57 model year. I just don't know if this makes the CAR a D500 which seriously affects it's value. Thanks for any direction to the info. Ted >> My book shows that the 325 is not the hemi. The D500 engine was the 354 hemi with 2 carter WCFB carbs rated at 340HP. The D500 series had a 285HP version of the 325, but it was not the hot hemi you are looking for. The id numbers shown are from KD-501-1001 to KD-501-1102. James ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 14:30:55 -0600 (CST) From: Roger Heflin Subject: Re: ABS Wheel sensor signal generator On Sat, 3 Apr 1999, Chris Moore wrote: > Hi Shannen, > I have the GM manuals for the 1995 Seville. It is very nice. It > still does not have the info that I need in it. The wheel sensor is > different than most. It is internal in the wheel bearing and I cannot > count the teeth. How else can I get this signal? Dealers probably > won't have a clue. They usually never do. Especially when I tell them > what I am doing. Is there some how I can use the bearing and just spin > it by hand to get a signal and do some math to make sure I can make a > generator that is set over the 18 mile/hour mark? > Thanks > > Chris Moore > > You might read the manual more carefully, I have found they have alot of info like this but nothing is organized in such a way that it can be found easily. Here is what my 93 Z28 abs maunaul says: The signal from the front wheel sensor is an AC voltage witha a frequency proportional to the speed of the wheel. he magnitude of the voltage increases with increasing speed. The front wheel ones in the Z28 are built nto the hub. It goes on sto say the rear sensor has 106 teeth. >From everything that it seems to say, you should be able to spin the hub by hand and get a signal out, and if you had a o-scope you could probably determine how many teeth it had from the signal going out and the rpm you were turrning it at. You could also hook up the hub and sensor to the computer, and find someone with a toool that can read the ABSD c omputer, and spin the hub and see what speed the abs computer thinks the car is going, and also find the frequency of the signal, and see what will trick the computer correctly. The 93 Z28 usees a GM ABS computer, I know some other GM cars were supposed to use a Bosch computer. Also from the codes I can see it may (the abs computer) also get unhappy if it does not detect the abs hardware (modulators) being there. It also says that it stores the codes in non-voliatel ram so the codes that are set will not be reset by pulling the battery cable. You may want to hook up the abs light just so you can see if you have successfully tricked the abs computer. I don't know what code readers will deal with the abs computer, but if you found a mechanic that had one that wwould probably help. Roger 93 Z28 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 16:08:14 -0500 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: Toyota Supra twin turbo and water injection. At 09:32 PM 4/3/99 +0100, you wrote: >In article <4.1.19990403143820.00951540@xxx. >Cooley apparently wrote: > >> How about substituting Methanol or Ethanol for the water... higher heat of >> vaporization (cools better as it evaporates) Plus it supplies additional >> fuel to the engine *AND* increases effective octane of the cylinder >> charge... Pretty good gains to be seen here if it's metered right! > >That is pretty common over here in the UK.I do not know if such additives >would be "liked" by the Lambda sensor though? Anyone ? Shouldn't hurt it, no deposits are formed by the Methanol/Ethanol when it burns. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 14:08:59 -0700 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Toyota Supra twin turbo and water injection. >At 11:59 AM 4/3/99 -0700, you wrote: > >> >>2. A small amount of water (maybe 10% of fuel mass flow rate) after the >>intercooler will yield some evaporative cooling of the charge air, and give >>you a net gain of maybe 1% after correcting for the amount of oxygen which >>is displaced by the resulting water vapor. > >How about substituting Methanol or Ethanol for the water... higher heat of >vaporization (cools better as it evaporates) Plus it supplies additional >fuel to the engine *AND* increases effective octane of the cylinder >charge... Pretty good gains to be seen here if it's metered right! To save going to look it up--ethanol and methanol each have heats of vaporization far LOWER than water--no more than half. But--yes, they do have higher vapor pressures at lower temps, which helps the case for using them some. Both of these alchohols are pretty high octane, but NEITHER one of them is an "anti-detonant" in the sense that water is. Additional fuel to the engine does not affect power--additional oxygen into the engine is what makes more power, by means of burning more fuel, possible. Methanol WILL release more heat of combustion per pound of oxygen breathed into an engine than gasoline will, ethanol will NOT!! The biggest trick to this stuff is to avoid going above the saturation point with respect to any particular liquid/vapor mixture at TDC. If you do, the latent heat required to evaporate any remaining liquid will sop up heat of combustion, and rob you of efficiency and power. Engines running on straight methanol are this way--there is not enough heat available during the compression stroke to evaporate all of the fuel, so there is still liquid fuel in the chamber when the spark goes off. This is why alky (methanol) fueled engines are hard to light, and also why their thermal efficiency is rather poor, and why they need a lot of spark advance (despite the fact that they make a lot of power, the first part of their fuel burn goes into evaporating the rest of their fuel, not into pushing on their pistons!!!) Regards, Greg > >=========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. >=========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 16:56:32 -0500 From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Subject: Re: '50s MOPAR Hemi question Does your 325 have solid or hydraulic lifters? The hydraulic lifter engine was standard on the Royal Custom - solids made it a D500 .Super D500 had dual quads and solids. The D501 was the 354 cid engine with hydraulics and dual 4BBls. All were Hemis. If this is a DODGE engine, not Chrysler od Desoto, you can be sure this is correct. This is contrary to James' information. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 16:10:23 -0600 From: Tom Sharpe Subject: Re: ABS Wheel sensor signal generator Roger Heflin wrote: > It goes on sto say the rear sensor has 106 teeth. I put new bearings on my Northstar Aurora, but pitched the old sensors and hubs. I thought they would be valuable, but the second time I tripped over them, they were gone. I would GUESS the tooth count at 36, certainly less than 50. I should have counted them. Stop by your local GM dealer for a count. TomS ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #207 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".