DIY_EFI Digest Tuesday, April 6 1999 Volume 04 : Number 212 In this issue: Mystery Substance Re: HEMI:-) Mystery Substance - part II books The Eagle has landed!! Re: Mystery Substance - part II Re: Diesels Re: EFI Head Volume Re: '50s MOPAR Hemi question Re: Question about Howell conversion. Re: Question about Howell conversion. Re: Chemical reaction (from Supra) Re: Diesels Re: '50s MOPAR Hemi question Re: books RE: books Re: books Re: Injector I.D. RE: 73 Chevy v8 question RE: 73 Chevy v8 question Re: EFI Head Volume Re: '50s MOPAR Hemi question RE: Data logger Re: Toyota Supra twin turbo and water injection. Re: '50s MOPAR Hemi question Re: Chemical reaction (from Supra) Re: Toyota Supra twin turbo and water injection. Re: EFI Head Volume Re: Mystery Substance -> Organometallic octane booster Re: Toyota Supra twin turbo and water injection. Now where did I leave that message?. Re: Police / Taxi EFI RE: EFI Head Volume See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 10:08:37 GMT From: bob@xxx.com (Robert Harris) Subject: Mystery Substance So as I am surfing the web - whiling away my time off from my unsavory computer business, I run across an obscure reference to an unusual little chemical compound. Since Dave is always pestering me for unusual chemicals I check it out. The compound is ferrocene, (dicyclopentadienyl iron), Fe(C5H5)2, or Fc for short. Seems like this be good stuff for octane enhancing and about as toxic as gasoline - unlike lead. Basic warning - drinking not recommended and it might hurt if you blend it with peanut butter and stick in your veins. A small amount - even reasonably priced - seems to go a long way and not regulated by the Enviro-Nazies. Guessing about 4 grams a gallon for a nice octane hit. Questions for chemists: Will this plug a catalytic converter? How fast? Is it scavengable with another compound in the cat? Next - effect on oxygen sensor - will it plug it up like lead and is the reaction reversible. Any references to the exact blending ratios. Based above on maximum blending ratio for lead - so probably not as effective. Any warnings - like explodes on contact with hydrazine or turns nitromethane into a class a explosive? 1963 Ford C-600 Prison Bus Conversion "Home" 1971 Lincoln Continental 460 "Christine" 1972 "Whale" Mustang awaiting transplant 1978 Dodge Long Bed Peeek Up "Bundymobile" Habaneros - not just for breakfast anymore ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 21:07:38 +1000 From: Niki Albury Subject: Re: HEMI:-) no sorry i've found it and I'll look at it soon........thanks again cant wait to see little cole Niki & Joel Tedscj@xxx.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/4/99 3:32:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > talltom@xxx.com writes: > > > While all the hemi heads are here, I'd like to ask what's supposed > > to be in a 57 DeSoto Adventurer. A buddy's got one, and it's got > > the factory 2-4 barrel carbs. He sez it can run 140, I'd like > > to know what it sposed to be. > > I wanna keep from gettin my doors blown off by a 57 DeSoto...:-) > > (This thing IS the car in the SHOE cartoon) > > The book I have (although I'm not completely convinced of it's accuracy) says > a 345ci Hemi v8 with twin quad induction, 9.25 to 1 compression ratio, > hydraulic valve lifters, and 345 HP. Also, it states that the '57 Adventurer > was the first car have an engine with 1 HP per 1 CI as *standard* equipment. > And I have read that a '56 Chrysler 300B (similar size car and Hemi engine > with similar HP figures) could do 140, so I'd bet with the right gearing, > your friends Adventurer could, too. (at least according to Hemi lore!) > > Ted ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 11:38:36 GMT From: bob@xxx.com (Robert Harris) Subject: Mystery Substance - part II The compound is ferrocene, (dicyclopentadienyl iron), Fe(C5H5)2, or Fc for short. The blend appears to be 100 mg per liter for maximum effectiveness - per obscure table in Jeff Hartmans High Performance Automotive Fuels and Fluids - worth a solid 2 octane points Research and Motor. Going price about $18.00 per hundred (100) grams research quality and purity. 100 grams treat 1000 liters to a 2 octane boost - about 1.8 cents a liter - about 7 cents a gallon - and that's if you buy it in small lots at research grade. Please someone answer cat O2 and hazard questions. Why can't I use it daddy? 1963 Ford C-600 Prison Bus Conversion "Home" 1971 Lincoln Continental 460 "Christine" 1972 "Whale" Mustang awaiting transplant 1978 Dodge Long Bed Peeek Up "Bundymobile" Habaneros - not just for breakfast anymore ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 08:47:22 -0300 From: Marcelo Elias dos Santos Subject: books Has a menbers of efi list know about the http address of bosch book about efi. The book's name I forgot, but it's a blue book and contents all injection system of bosch. Thanks, Marcelo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:42:22 -0300 From: "Pedro Haynes" Subject: The Eagle has landed!! The Eagle has landed!! My parts arrived on Thursday, unfortunate for me there is a really long weekend, guess I have to get them on Tuesday. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:04:42 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: Mystery Substance - part II When you say 2 octane points, that sounds like 0.2 octane... like 104+ which is 0.4 If it says 2 octane points it's 0.2, if it states 2 octane, then that's 2. - -----Original Message----- From: Robert Harris To: diy_efi@xxx.edu>; fordnatics@xxx.com ; Dave Williams Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 8:09 AM Subject: Mystery Substance - part II > >The compound is ferrocene, (dicyclopentadienyl iron), Fe(C5H5)2, or Fc for >short. > >The blend appears to be 100 mg per liter for maximum effectiveness - per >obscure table in Jeff Hartmans High Performance Automotive Fuels and Fluids - >worth a solid 2 octane points Research and Motor. > >Going price about $18.00 per hundred (100) grams research quality and purity. > >100 grams treat 1000 liters to a 2 octane boost - about 1.8 cents a liter - >about 7 cents a gallon - and that's if you buy it in small lots at research >grade. > >Please someone answer cat O2 and hazard questions. Why can't I use it daddy? > >1963 Ford C-600 Prison Bus Conversion "Home" >1971 Lincoln Continental 460 "Christine" >1972 "Whale" Mustang awaiting transplant >1978 Dodge Long Bed Peeek Up "Bundymobile" > >Habaneros - not just for breakfast anymore > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:06:47 -0400 From: Pat Ford Subject: Re: Diesels On Thu, 1 Apr 1999, Michael D. Porter wrote: > > Pat, and all, the problem with with filters, dirty injectors, etc., > derives from using fuel stored in home or farm tanks for a long period. > There is an algae-like microbe which likes, and grows in, #1 diesel or > home heating fuel. That's what causes the accelerated clogging. One > doesn't notice it in normal automotive use, because the fuel is expended > much more quickly. For people who do want to use home or farm heating > fuels in diesel engines, there is an algicide available to minimize > growth of the little beastie. > > Cheers. > cool another, another lesson Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 09:01:36 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: EFI Head Volume Mark Romans wrote: > > I have a friend who has an 89 Firebird 5.7 w/tpi and a Vortech and he has > the stock cast iron heads. (No casting #) and we are trying to determine > what the stock head combustion chamber volume is. He wants to go to > aluminum heads and drop his compression to 8.0-8.5 to one range. Anyone > know what the stock cast iron L98 F-Body app combustion chamber CC's are? > Thanks. Mark 63-64 cc, if they're the same ones used on pickups. Drop compression? What is his current compression ratio? Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 09:21:21 -0400 From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Subject: Re: '50s MOPAR Hemi question > I looked in another book I have and it said that Dodge offered the D500 > option across the board on anything from the plain Coronet on up. > > The hemi engine option was available on all models. > The only difference i can see in the book is the fact that the D-500 > weight is 3885 lbs compared to 3530 lbs for the D66 Coronet V-8. > > James > This is correct, but does not change anything. That particular model is the most sought after, and the d500 only makes it better. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 08:28:20 -0700 From: rr Subject: Re: Question about Howell conversion. esc wrote: > > >If your talking about wanting to run a 4 barrel TBI, the only gm ecm I know > >of to do that properly is the 1227749 wired as used in a 87 Sunbird Turbo. > > In some testing that I did, I was unhappy with the results of firing > >injectors wired, in series parrarel. > > If you want to run a 4 barrel TBI, my suggestion is to run, a TBI ecm and > >then make an injector driver board external to the ecm, to actually fire the > >injectors. > > Sounds like a can of worms I'de rather not open. > Actually, Bruce is dead on here, go with a driver board. Wiring PnH inj's in series is stupid, you halve the voltage to each injector. You will lose all short duration opening control otherwise. I really can't understand why aftermarkets do it. > > From what I've heard all the 4 barrels use the same butterflies, but > >different injector sizes from rating to rating. So the idea of selling > >them by CFM is silly, when they all flow about the same CFM, and the actual > >difference is gals/hour.... > > Mine is the 900CFM..uh, 4 85 lb/hour injectors. Holley claims it is good > for 500 HP at 15 PSI. > > > Next item, 4 ninety gal/hr injectors would support about 700 HP. > > I run 13s in a 3000#/350 CID car, with 2 two inch butterflies, if you > >really need that much air (4-2" butterflies), I'd look further than a TBI... > > I want to use my TBI because I put a lot of effort into the ram-air system > on the car. If I go with a port injection system (most anyway) I would > have to scrap my ram-air, and maybe my hood. > > > If your needing that much air, then you have a bunch of cam, and might do > >well using a 747 where you can go open loop at idle. > > I do have a lot of cam 255 at 0.50 and 0.600 lift. Would I need the > external driver board you mentioned earlier to use the 747? Yeaaa... I'd vote for "that's a bunch of cam". > > >Cheers > >Bruce > > Eric > esc@xxx.com > If it breaks, make it stronger. > If it doesn't, try harder. > '68 Big Block Bird > '69 Spitfire > '82(sort of) Camaro BobR. - -- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 08:18:03 -0700 From: rr Subject: Re: Question about Howell conversion. esc wrote: > > At 10:14 AM 4/4/99 -0700, you wrote: > >They use a GM 1227730 and 1227747 ECMs with their own calibration. > >Their website is www.howell-efi.com, but they don't have the 7730 stuff > >there. Bruce Plecan bought a calibration from them (for the 7730) and > >he says it's sloppy. > > > >The wiring is simple. You have to change the MAP sensor to a GM type. > >They dont use an air temp sensor, but all the rest are the same. > > > >Do you have an IAC? If so, that will plug right in, also. > > > >Andy > > > > Ther are no remenants of the origional computer system in my car. > > All I have right now is the Holley ProJection4 system (analog w/MSD > controller). > > I looked at their site. It looks like they are using the 7747(sometimes). > I have a 7747 laying around, so I may try and put this together myself. > > But not today. :) > I'm still gathering info. I hope to come up with a plan pretty soon. > > I DO have a computer distributor that I would like to use. I have read the > recent posts about using the computer for ignition control only, that > sounds like a starting point. But I wonder what the MINIMUM would be to > make that work? Well, besides the harness, distrib, coil and ecm, the temp sensor, knock sensor and vss are all I'm using... (And you might not need the vss). BobR. > > Also since I have a one-of-a-kind combination, and change it regularly, i > need to be able to easily change the fuel and ignition curves. I guesss I > kust need to get a prom burner and start playing. > Eric > esc@xxx.com > If it breaks, make it stronger. > If it doesn't, try harder. > '68 Big Block Bird > '69 Spitfire > '82(sort of) Camaro ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:08:17 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Chemical reaction (from Supra) >If you were to ignite fuel and air (C8H18 + 12.5 O2 >>> 8 CO2 + 9 H20) with >no addition of heat from the reaction, you would get a 36% increase in >pressure. With ignition (assume 1600°F temp increase after combustion, >PV=nRT, and 80°F init temp) an increase in pressure of 380% from addition of >heat. THIS IS JUST BALL PARKISH!!!!! Not even ballparkish! The (lower) heat of combustion of isooctane is 19065 BTU/lb. Ths temp increase is more like on the order of 4500 degrees. Greg > >The idea Otto cycle is (during combustion) a pressure increase. Add water >during this pressure and heat is taken away so less pressure against the >piston. Some pressure is gained from the vaporization of water, but I >"guess" that would not make up for the heat loss/pressure decrease. > >See ya, > >Mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:11:54 -0400 From: Pat Ford Subject: Re: Diesels On Mon, 5 Apr 1999, Pat Ford wrote: need caffeine > Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:06:47 -0400 > From: Pat Ford > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: Diesels > > On Thu, 1 Apr 1999, Michael D. Porter wrote: > > > > > Pat, and all, the problem with with filters, dirty injectors, etc., > > derives from using fuel stored in home or farm tanks for a long period. > > There is an algae-like microbe which likes, and grows in, #1 diesel or > > home heating fuel. That's what causes the accelerated clogging. One > > doesn't notice it in normal automotive use, because the fuel is expended > > much more quickly. For people who do want to use home or farm heating > > fuels in diesel engines, there is an algicide available to minimize > > growth of the little beastie. > > > > Cheers. > > > > cool another, another lesson hit sent to fast should have been another day, another lesson > > Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com > QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com > (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews > (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 > > Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:09:10 EDT From: JRECPA@xxx.com Subject: Re: '50s MOPAR Hemi question In a message dated 4/5/99 6:56:05 AM US Mountain Standard Time, clare.snyder.on.ca@xxx.net writes: << > I looked in another book I have and it said that Dodge offered the D500 > option across the board on anything from the plain Coronet on up. > > The hemi engine option was available on all models. > The only difference i can see in the book is the fact that the D-500 > weight is 3885 lbs compared to 3530 lbs for the D66 Coronet V-8. > > James > This is correct, but does not change anything. That particular model is the most sought after, and the d500 only makes it better. >> did you look up the vin to see if it is the D500 model? James ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 10:12:47 -0500 From: George Pettit Subject: Re: books The book you are probably referring to is "Bosch fuel Injection & Engin Management" by Charles O. Probst, SAE. It's published by Robert Bentley Publishers, Cambridge. The site is: http://www.rb.com ISBN 0-8376-0300-5 I heartily recommend the book for reference. Regards, George Marcelo Elias dos Santos wrote: > Has a menbers of efi list know about the http address of bosch book > about efi. The book's name I forgot, but it's a blue book and contents > all injection system of bosch. > Thanks, > > Marcelo - -- **************************************************************** * George W. Pettit | Design Engineer, * * | Motion Control Products * * Technology 80 Inc. | http://www.tech80.com * * 658 Mendelssohn Avenue North | gpettit@xxx.com * * Minneapolis, Minnesota 55427 | gpettit@xxx.net * * USA | ph: 612.542.9545 * * | fax: 612.542.9785 * **************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:19:10 -0700 From: "Stowe, Ted-SEA" Subject: RE: books amazon.com barnesandnoble.com isbn 0-8376-0333-1 - -----Original Message----- From: Marcelo Elias dos Santos [mailto:msantos@xxx.br] Sent: Monday, April 05, 1999 4:47 AM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: books Has a menbers of efi list know about the http address of bosch book about efi. The book's name I forgot, but it's a blue book and contents all injection system of bosch. Thanks, Marcelo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 08:22:53 -0700 From: goflo@xxx.net Subject: Re: books Marcelo Elias dos Santos wrote: > > Has a menbers of efi list know about the http address of bosch book > about efi. The book's name I forgot, but it's a blue book and contents > all injection system of bosch. > Thanks, > > Marcelo "Bosch Fuel Injection & Engine Managemment", by Charles Probst. Regards, Jack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:36:41 -0700 From: "Walter Sherwin" Subject: Re: Injector I.D. >Need some help identifying GM injector, old # is 17109596, new # is 17113221. >I would like to know what the flow rate is in pounds/hr. Thanks ! About 22#/Hr @xxx. A GM dealer can give exact application data. Walt. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:49:03 -0500 From: Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com Subject: RE: 73 Chevy v8 question The Dist is a 1968 built march 19 if it is points The carb is a 1973 part The block could be a four bolt the last 3 numbers 010 of the block casting number usually indicate 4 bolt but not always. Most 4 bolts have the large solid balancer. > -----Original Message----- > From: Stowe, Ted-SEA [SMTP:StowT@xxx.com] > Sent: Saturday, April 03, 1999 10:48 AM > To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu' > Subject: 73 Chevy v8 question > > > Thanks very much to everyone for helping me id my Chevy 350. > > I believe it to be a '73 350 out of a passenger car, which one I can't > tell, > I am assuming a 2 bolt main. whether it was rebuilt or not I can't tell. > > the head casting # is 3973487 > the carb id, (2bl Rochester ) is 7043114 > the block id is 3970010 > the intake is 3997773 > > the distributor I can't find listed anywhere, it is a 1111440 8c19, the > 8c19 would normally tell me that the distributor was built on march 19th > 1978, but how that got there I can't tell. It is a single point dist. > > I cannot get the waterpump nor the exhaust manifold numbers. > > a great numbers book is 'Chevrolet by the numbers' really nice for this > sort > of thing. > > I have a question about the intake manifold, this is not a efi question, I > wish it was but I am trying to do the right thing here. Putting an efi > system on my mgb has taught me to pay lots attention to details and think > before doing anything. > > I took the carb off and sent it out to be rebuilt, as it idled funny +,- > 300+ rpm, and I took the intake manifold off and had it tanked because it > was just too dirty. > > I did this also because the egr valve appeared not to work, and after > seeing > the egr valve passages from the outside all clogged, I just thought that > was > the problem. > > now with a clean manifold I think I see something else. this 'egr' > manifold, > has two small ports on the passenger side, that would appear to mate with > 2 > ports on the head on that side. these ports are right under the egr valve > on > that side. > > however there are no ports on either head for such a purpose, and no holes > in the old intake manifold gaskets either. so even with the intake's egr > ports cleaned up, nothing is going to happen. > > so is this a clear case of a different set of heads/manifold ? or is this > not a problem ? > does anyone sell an egr valve block off plate ? I'd hate to kind of leave > this condition existing as the egr passages are just going to load up with > carbon again. > > also, in looking at the HP ratings for 350's around that time, (73), what > happened to the HP ratings ? this engine would appear to have a hp rating > of > 145. the 350's prior seemed to have about 25+ more, was this a different > method of measuring hp ? or was this the result of the emission > requirements > at the time ?? > > I accidentally got a set of felpro intake manifold gaskets that appear to > be > for a intake manifold that blocks off the exhaust crossover. I would guess > that this was done to help cold running conditions, any advice on > retaining > this or not ? > > thanks for all you're help. when finances and time permits I would just > love > to efi this. > this is a 350 in a 72 xj6 with a turbo 350, I plan to put a 4 speed auto > in > it sometime. > > Ted Stowe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:26:00 -0700 From: "Stowe, Ted-SEA" Subject: RE: 73 Chevy v8 question thanks Don > -----Original Message----- > From: Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com] > Sent: Monday, April 05, 1999 8:49 AM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: RE: 73 Chevy v8 question > > The Dist is a 1968 built march 19 if it is points > The carb is a 1973 part > The block could be a four bolt the last 3 numbers 010 of the block casting > number > usually indicate 4 bolt but not always. Most 4 bolts have the large solid > balancer. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Stowe, Ted-SEA [SMTP:StowT@xxx.com] > > Sent: Saturday, April 03, 1999 10:48 AM > > To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu' > > Subject: 73 Chevy v8 question > > > > > > Thanks very much to everyone for helping me id my Chevy 350. > > > > I believe it to be a '73 350 out of a passenger car, which one I can't > > tell, > > I am assuming a 2 bolt main. whether it was rebuilt or not I can't tell. > > > > the head casting # is 3973487 > > the carb id, (2bl Rochester ) is 7043114 > > the block id is 3970010 > > the intake is 3997773 > > > > the distributor I can't find listed anywhere, it is a 1111440 8c19, the > > 8c19 would normally tell me that the distributor was built on march 19th > > 1978, but how that got there I can't tell. It is a single point dist. > > > > I cannot get the waterpump nor the exhaust manifold numbers. > > > > a great numbers book is 'Chevrolet by the numbers' really nice for this > > sort > > of thing. > > > > I have a question about the intake manifold, this is not a efi question, > I > > wish it was but I am trying to do the right thing here. Putting an efi > > system on my mgb has taught me to pay lots attention to details and > think > > before doing anything. > > > > I took the carb off and sent it out to be rebuilt, as it idled funny +,- > > 300+ rpm, and I took the intake manifold off and had it tanked because > it > > was just too dirty. > > > > I did this also because the egr valve appeared not to work, and after > > seeing > > the egr valve passages from the outside all clogged, I just thought that > > was > > the problem. > > > > now with a clean manifold I think I see something else. this 'egr' > > manifold, > > has two small ports on the passenger side, that would appear to mate > with > > 2 > > ports on the head on that side. these ports are right under the egr > valve > > on > > that side. > > > > however there are no ports on either head for such a purpose, and no > holes > > in the old intake manifold gaskets either. so even with the intake's egr > > ports cleaned up, nothing is going to happen. > > > > so is this a clear case of a different set of heads/manifold ? or is > this > > not a problem ? > > does anyone sell an egr valve block off plate ? I'd hate to kind of > leave > > this condition existing as the egr passages are just going to load up > with > > carbon again. > > > > also, in looking at the HP ratings for 350's around that time, (73), > what > > happened to the HP ratings ? this engine would appear to have a hp > rating > > of > > 145. the 350's prior seemed to have about 25+ more, was this a different > > method of measuring hp ? or was this the result of the emission > > requirements > > at the time ?? > > > > I accidentally got a set of felpro intake manifold gaskets that appear > to > > be > > for a intake manifold that blocks off the exhaust crossover. I would > guess > > that this was done to help cold running conditions, any advice on > > retaining > > this or not ? > > > > thanks for all you're help. when finances and time permits I would just > > love > > to efi this. > > this is a 350 in a 72 xj6 with a turbo 350, I plan to put a 4 speed auto > > in > > it sometime. > > > > Ted Stowe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:34:26 -0700 From: "Mark Romans" Subject: Re: EFI Head Volume Current compression ratio is 9.3 to one, stock 89 TPI in a Camaro. He wants to drop it to about 8 to 8.5 to one and intercool and use more boost. Currently about 6 lbs max. I know the Aluminum L98 heads are 58cc, that's what I have on my Vet. Mark - -----Original Message----- From: Shannen Durphey To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 6:25 AM Subject: Re: EFI Head Volume >Mark Romans wrote: >> >> I have a friend who has an 89 Firebird 5.7 w/tpi and a Vortech and he has >> the stock cast iron heads. (No casting #) and we are trying to determine >> what the stock head combustion chamber volume is. He wants to go to >> aluminum heads and drop his compression to 8.0-8.5 to one range. Anyone >> know what the stock cast iron L98 F-Body app combustion chamber CC's are? >> Thanks. Mark >63-64 cc, if they're the same ones used on pickups. Drop >compression? What is his current compression ratio? >Shannen > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:49:49 EDT From: Tedscj@xxx.com Subject: Re: '50s MOPAR Hemi question In a message dated 4/5/99 11:19:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, JRECPA@xxx.com writes: > did you look up the vin to see if it is the D500 model? > > James No, unfortunately the car is 400 miles away. A friend lives within 20 miles (he found it in the local paper) and looked at it and reported back. He said it looks very original and rough in only a couple of areas ( some broken glass, seats totally delapitated, and the trunk is a little rusty, and a minor scrape-dent down the door like it rubbed against a pole, but otherwise pretty decent). He got the engine srial# but not the VIN (or whatever the equivalent was back then.) I'm going to drive up there next week and look at it myself and make an offer. Ted ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:59:08 +0300 From: Niinikoski Juha Subject: RE: Data logger Hi you don't mean my project with 4L80E transmission ? http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Factory/6113/ Juha > -----Original Message----- > From: Niki Albury [SMTP:joelsmama@xxx.au] > Sent: 28. maaliskuuta 1999 9:25 > To: DIY_EFI > Subject: Data logger > > Hi Guys > > sometime back one of you guys was playing around with data logging, > using a PIC as the controller. Can anyone give me any more info on > this topic. > > > Justin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 17:29:37 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe Subject: Re: Toyota Supra twin turbo and water injection. Greg Hermann wrote: > Have calculated all of this in quite a bit of detail, got the tee shirt, > eaten the Excedrin! Now, wanna build an engine to prove it!! Suggestions > for an ecu that can run FOUR injectors PER cylinder now being accepted! Use any sequential ECU and drive 8 EFI332 driver boards. EEC_IV from a Mustang or GM's equivalent. You could add an rpm switch to the third and fourth so it would idle on two. I suppose you want to program all 32 injectors..... just food for thought. Sharpe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:49:49 EDT From: Tedscj@xxx.com Subject: Re: '50s MOPAR Hemi question In a message dated 4/5/99 11:19:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, JRECPA@xxx.com writes: > did you look up the vin to see if it is the D500 model? > > James No, unfortunately the car is 400 miles away. A friend lives within 20 miles (he found it in the local paper) and looked at it and reported back. He said it looks very original and rough in only a couple of areas ( some broken glass, seats totally delapitated, and the trunk is a little rusty, and a minor scrape-dent down the door like it rubbed against a pole, but otherwise pretty decent). He got the engine srial# but not the VIN (or whatever the equivalent was back then.) I'm going to drive up there next week and look at it myself and make an offer. Ted ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 17:50:59 -0500 From: "Steve N." Subject: Re: Chemical reaction (from Supra) > If you were to ignite fuel and air (C8H18 + 12.5 O2 >>> 8 CO2 + 9 H20) with > no addition of heat from the reaction, you would get a 36% increase in > pressure. With ignition (assume 1600°F temp increase after combustion, > PV=nRT, and 80°F init temp) an increase in pressure of 380% from addition of > heat. THIS IS JUST BALL PARKISH!!!!! Thanks for the info mike, it sheds some more light on the subject, but at the same time rises another question. How much of the created heat pressue (380%) goes to actually making the gases expand? We all know that there are great losses in the coolant system, friction, etc., just curious as to if anyone knows what pushes the piston. I guess you could start to factor in the efficeny ratings that are well known (ie the honda F1 engine converts 32% of the energy in the gas into power. What power is this? Flywheel power?) Anyway, since I have do not know how much energy is lost in engine friction, and how much heat is lost from combustion to the coolant system, I guess it is hard for me to say. Thanks! Steve N. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:54:41 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Toyota Supra twin turbo and water injection. >Use any sequential ECU and drive 8 EFI332 driver boards. EEC_IV from a >Mustang or GM's equivalent. You could add an rpm switch to the third and fourth >so it would idle on two. > >I suppose you want to program all 32 injectors..... But of course--how could it be otherwise, Tom?? Greg > >just food for thought. Sharpe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 22:28:33 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: EFI Head Volume I thought the aluminum vette heads and the early powerpack heads were the only ones with chambers that small. Any others? Shannen Mark Romans wrote: > > The stock cast iron head is 58.5? Whoa, I thought it would have a bigger > chamber than that. Thanks for the info. > > Also quench area is critical in preventing pre-ignition so he would rather > increase the combustion chamber volume than shim the head up. Thanks again. > Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Marc Piccioni > To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu> > Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 9:46 AM > Subject: RE: EFI Head Volume > > >The head cc's should be 58.5 if the heads have not been cut. One possible > >method (depending on how much boost he wants to run) is to use Fel-Pro's > >head save gasket shim, it adds ~0.040" in thickness which roughly > >translates into ~ 0.8 -> 1.0 drop in C.R. This would save a bunch of $$$ on > >AL heads if that is what he would like to do......... > > > >/Marc > > > >---------- > >From: Mark Romans[SMTP:romans@xxx.net] > >Sent: April 4, 1999 12:45 AM > >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu; EFI > >Subject: EFI Head Volume > > > >I have a friend who has an 89 Firebird 5.7 w/tpi and a Vortech and he has > >the stock cast iron heads. (No casting #) and we are trying to determine > >what the stock head combustion chamber volume is. He wants to go to > >aluminum heads and drop his compression to 8.0-8.5 to one range. Anyone > >know what the stock cast iron L98 F-Body app combustion chamber CC's are? > >Thanks. Mark > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:43:32 -0700 (PDT) From: cliff@xxx.edu Subject: Re: Mystery Substance -> Organometallic octane booster > The compound is ferrocene, (dicyclopentadienyl iron), Fe(C5H5)2, or Fc for > short. > This is one of several octane boosters of that class. They apparently work by scavaging the hydoxol radicals which promote rapid flame front speed. I found that iron, nickel, chromium, magnesium organometallics had been tried in the 50s (?) while researching octane boosting in the school library. All except lead and magnesium caused to much wear. The oxides are to hard. I used MMT (methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl) for several hundred thousand miles and decided it too caused more wear than I liked. Ethyl Corp. produces MMT and in 1998 got some favorable court rulings see: http://www.ethyl.com/news/7-20-98.html I don't know what has happened since then. A problem with these octane boosters is they don't worked with oxygenated fuels (MTBE, gasohol, etc). They oxidize in the tank. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 21:48:32 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe Subject: Re: Toyota Supra twin turbo and water injection. How about a ZR1 Vette ECU driving 8 EFI boards - at least you can have 16 pairs... Tom Greg Hermann wrote: > >Use any sequential ECU and drive 8 EFI332 driver boards. EEC_IV from a > >Mustang or GM's equivalent. You could add an rpm switch to the third and fourth > >so it would idle on two. > > > >I suppose you want to program all 32 injectors..... > > But of course--how could it be otherwise, Tom?? > > Greg > > > >just food for thought. Sharpe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 22:46:19 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Now where did I leave that message?. Thought I'd point out that there are archives for both the gmecm and diy_efi lists, and for those of us that barely remember thread titles, things are looking worse. ; ) DIY_EFI archives are located at http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/diy_efi/asearch.html GMECM archives are located at: http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/gmecm/asearch.html And, when you're up late at night doing bleary eyed searches, you may forget to notice that both archive search pages say "Article Search and Retrieval for the DIY_EFI Mailing List", but the DIY_EFI page has the DIY_EFI logo. Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 22:51:43 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Police / Taxi EFI David A. Cooley wrote: > > Actually, the only difference between "police cal's" and regular was in > California... the cop vehicles would have the 49 state federal cal which > was a bit more lenient and may have had an additional HP or 2, but > identical to what you could get in the same type of vehicle if you bought > it off the lot... > Police packages consisted of silicone hoses, larger trans and oil coolers, > heavy duty cooling and an extremely large alternator. Police spec vehicles I've worked on have no speed limiter, and the ones I've seen use a 4 cyl engine code in the VIN. Shannen > > At 10:20 AM 4/4/99 -0700, you wrote: > >Since most of the discussions emphasize performance I thought that there > >would be more stuff based on police/taxi data, but have not seen anything > >posted and have not been able to find much in the archives. (Have not looked > >at every post!) Also didnt see police entries on any of the ECM tables. > > > >One post from Bruce, sometime in the past, mentioned "cop car injectors are > >larger than the truck. 1991, used 16136965 for the cop car ecm. BATJ was a > >"good"cal.". > > > >That is all that I have found up till now. Does anyone out there have more > >leads? > > > >My reasoning is that police cars involved in "hot pursuit" probably have > >hardware and calibrations to support running hard, or at least not hinder > >it. Isnt that the kind of EFI performance we are trying for? > > > >Where have I gone wrong? Where should I look harder? Interested in > >applications for both TBI and MPI. > > > >Thanks, > >Bud > > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. > =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:09:40 -0600 From: Marc Piccioni Subject: RE: EFI Head Volume My understanding is that both the late model cast iron & corvette heads have the same cc'c, since (to the best of my knoweldge) the 2 differences between these 2 engines is the head material (port shape as well) and I think exhaust manifolds where the vette got SS header and the iron head engine got cast iron exhaust manifolds. - ---------- From: Shannen Durphey[SMTP:shannen@xxx.com] Sent: April 5, 1999 8:28 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: EFI Head Volume I thought the aluminum vette heads and the early powerpack heads were the only ones with chambers that small. Any others? Shannen Mark Romans wrote: > > The stock cast iron head is 58.5? Whoa, I thought it would have a bigger > chamber than that. Thanks for the info. > > Also quench area is critical in preventing pre-ignition so he would rather > increase the combustion chamber volume than shim the head up. Thanks again. > Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Marc Piccioni > To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu> > Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 9:46 AM > Subject: RE: EFI Head Volume > > >The head cc's should be 58.5 if the heads have not been cut. One possible > >method (depending on how much boost he wants to run) is to use Fel-Pro's > >head save gasket shim, it adds ~0.040" in thickness which roughly > >translates into ~ 0.8 -> 1.0 drop in C.R. This would save a bunch of $$$ on > >AL heads if that is what he would like to do......... > > > >/Marc > > > >---------- > >From: Mark Romans[SMTP:romans@xxx.net] > >Sent: April 4, 1999 12:45 AM > >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu; EFI > >Subject: EFI Head Volume > > > >I have a friend who has an 89 Firebird 5.7 w/tpi and a Vortech and he has > >the stock cast iron heads. (No casting #) and we are trying to determine > >what the stock head combustion chamber volume is. He wants to go to > >aluminum heads and drop his compression to 8.0-8.5 to one range. Anyone > >know what the stock cast iron L98 F-Body app combustion chamber CC's are? > >Thanks. Mark > > > > > > > > > > begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(A4$`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`% !```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```%L`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&5S;"YE M;F5]E9FE 97-L+F5N9RYO:&EO+7-T871E+F5D=2<` M`````@$+, $````D````4TU44#I$25E?149)0$533"Y%3D`' ``0```!0```!2 M13H@149)($AE860@5F]L=6UE``(!<0`!````%@````&^?^-*NC+84HGKHQ'2 MOIQ$15-4`````!X`'@P!````!0```%--5% `````'@`?# $````8````;7!I M8V-I;VYI0&%T=&-A;F%D82YN970``P`&$'(20]4#``<0,P8``!X`"! !```` M90```$U954Y$15)35$%.1$E.1TE35$A!5$)/5$A42$5,051%34]$14Q#05-4 M25)/3B9#3U)6151414A%04132$%6151(15-!345#0T,L4TE.0T4H5$]42$5" M15-43T9-64M.3U=%3$0``````@$)$ $```!7!@``4P8``,$+``!,6D9U5*(N MI_\`"@$/`A4"J 7K`H,`4 +R"0(`8V@*P'-E=#(W!@`&PP*#,@/%`@!P)S=&5M`H,SMP+D!Q,"@S02S!3%?0J BPC/"=D[%Y\R-34"@ <*@0VQ"V!N M9S$P,V\44 L*%%$+\F,`0 70>;@@=6X$@1/ `'!D"X#D9R $`"!T$8 %0 ;@ MLQW ';%E( M@xxx.@)CL?0 6P=A' 'L$><&%DSP0@ M$8 @0!Y30!4!OAF8>X!R0:VYO M=Q\@\&1G92D>4Q'@'4 -T-\$D GP(G $(",@="0`"?#O'E(1L"2Q"?!G"X ' MD1V3WR"$'N >L0@!]@("0!;"1@61TA($D=L0N :R:0 M>'T1@xxx.!!I &\"#1=^\>@'E,@1&<>( 8`!?#_(*($D"FS'F(?HR>3 M)J0LDPL?6"J/+@xxx.((P`M%I+3$T- WPYPS0,H,+63$V"J #8!/0^F,% M0"TTIPJ',UL,,#0F^D8#83HUKC0F#((&`!& 5FXFX .@1 AP/.)M!$U E`Q$U(B Q.4"@ M(#C .C(X(%!-.^\V79Q4;SXO.)L=0'E?#< D:4 'D&PN)J$N;SDJ,&\M'0$3 MT$8`9'7C05\\_G5B:C1A0W\XFZ1294F@148J`$@GHCI6!O!U!X *A3$=,S:? 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