DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, April 14 1999 Volume 04 : Number 225 In this issue: Re: Torque measurement Re: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? Re: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? Re: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? Re: Another Question about the Northstar Re: Another Question about the Northstar Re: Another Question about the Northstar Re: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER Re: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER Re: DFI vs TEC II Re: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER Racing ECM available from GM Re: sequential gearboxes Re: Another Question about the Northstar Re: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER Re: DFI vs TEC II Re: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER Re: DFI vs TEC II Re: 302 vs 460 Re: Another Question about the Northstar Holley Pro-Jection 4D instructions Re: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? Re: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 13 Apr 99 21:33:06 +1200 From: "Tom Parker" Subject: Re: Torque measurement Cool! Doesn't look feasable though. It would be a very good sensor to have that resolution. In first gear the torque is much greater but still same order of magnatude which you aren't going to detect with a coulpe of hall sensors and a magnet chip on a 10cm diamater cv joint! Gary Derian wrote: >Torsional deflection, in radians, for a solid bar is ((L*32)/(pi*d^4))*(T/G) >where d is the diameter, T is torque and G is shear modulus. For your axle, >I calculate 0.00267 which is 0.15 degrees. >Gary Derian >> >> What about putting a postion sensor on both the inner and outer CV joint >(for >> front wheel drive engine) and measuring the twist in the driveshaft? >> >> My Mini has a 450mm by 25mm driveshaft. >> >> Anyone know rough calculations for torque v twist? >> >> The motor puts about 340 Nm on the ground (100Nm at the crank) in top >gear. >> >> -- >> Tom Parker - tparker@xxx.com >> - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ - -- Tom Parker - parkert@xxx.com - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:37:28 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? - ----- Original Message ----- From: greg kring To: Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 1:19 AM Subject: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? Now bear this in mind that this is just personal theory, and I have absolutely no doumentation on it. But: Up until the last year or so Some countries were using only leaded fuels, with O2 sensors. So the issue of being leaded, is void, in my book. The US and some other countries have outlawed unleaded for street use, one way to make that law totally enforceable for late model cars is using an additive that kills O2 sensors. Which also explains some of the secrecy about what is in the gasoline we buy. Also, explains way there is such a large opinion as to O2 life. The WB O2s all seem to be heated, and I just wonder if that helps reduce stuff from accumulating on the sensor during warm-up, which might be what is actually killing the sensors. One of the designers of the Fel-Pro unit used to/might still subscribe to the GN/Ttype list, just be sure to mention Buick V-6 in your post.... Bruce Sneezy's in trouble again. Was a Hooters and thought he saw an owl move under one of the gals shirt. He tried protecting here, and some how got in trouble for that.... Just doesn't pay trying to be a good samaritian > I know leaded gas will poison a standard oxygen sensor, but what happens > to the UEGO wideband sensor under repeated use with leaded gas? Most of > the racers I know just leave their standard sensor in at the dragstrip > using leaded gas, then switch back to unleaded for the street. When the > sensor goes bad, about once or twice a year, they just replace it. Easy > to do with a 30 buck sensor, not so with a high dollar wideband. The > whole purpose of the wideband on my Fel-Pro system is to tune at wide > open throttle, which happens at the track with 116 octane leaded gas. > Any ideas on life expectancy? We are talking 5 or 6 passes down the > track, then back to street gas all week. > Greg Kring > Arlington, Texas > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:09:33 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? Actually, The Export models of cars that are destined for countries with leaded fuels have the PCM's calibrated to operate with no O2 sensors or cats. As an example, the Export exhaust system for the impala SS is an H pipe from the manifolds down to the intermediate pipe that replaces the cats and has no bungs for O2 sensors... The Saudi Syclone/Typhoons were the same way... No cats, no O2 sensors. - -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Plecan To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 9:03 AM Subject: Re: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? > >----- Original Message ----- >From: greg kring >To: >Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 1:19 AM >Subject: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? > >Now bear this in mind that this is just personal theory, and I have >absolutely no doumentation on it. But: > Up until the last year or so Some countries were using only leaded fuels, >with O2 sensors. So the issue of being leaded, is void, in my book. > The US and some other countries have outlawed unleaded for street use, one >way to make that law totally enforceable for late model cars is using an >additive that kills O2 sensors. Which also explains some of the secrecy >about what is in the gasoline we buy. > Also, explains way there is such a large opinion as to O2 life. > The WB O2s all seem to be heated, and I just wonder if that helps reduce >stuff from accumulating on the sensor during warm-up, which might be what is >actually killing the sensors. > One of the designers of the Fel-Pro unit used to/might still subscribe to >the GN/Ttype list, just be sure to mention Buick V-6 in your post.... >Bruce > Sneezy's in trouble again. Was a Hooters and thought he saw an owl move >under one of the gals shirt. He tried protecting here, and some how got in >trouble for that.... Just doesn't pay trying to be a good samaritian > >> I know leaded gas will poison a standard oxygen sensor, but what happens >> to the UEGO wideband sensor under repeated use with leaded gas? Most of >> the racers I know just leave their standard sensor in at the dragstrip >> using leaded gas, then switch back to unleaded for the street. When the >> sensor goes bad, about once or twice a year, they just replace it. Easy >> to do with a 30 buck sensor, not so with a high dollar wideband. The >> whole purpose of the wideband on my Fel-Pro system is to tune at wide >> open throttle, which happens at the track with 116 octane leaded gas. >> Any ideas on life expectancy? We are talking 5 or 6 passes down the >> track, then back to street gas all week. >> Greg Kring >> Arlington, Texas >> > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:28:06 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? - ----- Original Message ----- From: David A. Cooley To: Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 9:09 AM Subject: Re: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? Ya but the Holdens used O2 sensors in New Zeland the whole time. The Saudi sy's had an O2, they snipped the wire thou. There are some posts in the archives, where people have exported cars to countries using leaded fuels and did just fine. Bruce > Actually, > The Export models of cars that are destined for countries with leaded fuels > have the PCM's calibrated to operate with no O2 sensors or cats. As an > example, the Export exhaust system for the impala SS is an H pipe from the > manifolds down to the intermediate pipe that replaces the cats and has no > bungs for O2 sensors... The Saudi Syclone/Typhoons were the same way... No > cats, no O2 sensors. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce Plecan > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 9:03 AM > Subject: Re: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: greg kring > >To: > >Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 1:19 AM > >Subject: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? > > > >Now bear this in mind that this is just personal theory, and I have > >absolutely no doumentation on it. But: > > Up until the last year or so Some countries were using only leaded fuels, > >with O2 sensors. So the issue of being leaded, is void, in my book. > > The US and some other countries have outlawed unleaded for street use, > one > >way to make that law totally enforceable for late model cars is using an > >additive that kills O2 sensors. Which also explains some of the secrecy > >about what is in the gasoline we buy. > > Also, explains way there is such a large opinion as to O2 life. > > The WB O2s all seem to be heated, and I just wonder if that helps reduce > >stuff from accumulating on the sensor during warm-up, which might be what > is > >actually killing the sensors. > > One of the designers of the Fel-Pro unit used to/might still subscribe to > >the GN/Ttype list, just be sure to mention Buick V-6 in your post.... > >Bruce > > Sneezy's in trouble again. Was a Hooters and thought he saw an owl move > >under one of the gals shirt. He tried protecting here, and some how got in > >trouble for that.... Just doesn't pay trying to be a good samaritian > > > >> I know leaded gas will poison a standard oxygen sensor, but what happens > >> to the UEGO wideband sensor under repeated use with leaded gas? Most of > >> the racers I know just leave their standard sensor in at the dragstrip > >> using leaded gas, then switch back to unleaded for the street. When the > >> sensor goes bad, about once or twice a year, they just replace it. Easy > >> to do with a 30 buck sensor, not so with a high dollar wideband. The > >> whole purpose of the wideband on my Fel-Pro system is to tune at wide > >> open throttle, which happens at the track with 116 octane leaded gas. > >> Any ideas on life expectancy? We are talking 5 or 6 passes down the > >> track, then back to street gas all week. > >> Greg Kring > >> Arlington, Texas > >> > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:37:48 +0000 From: xxalexx@xxx.com Subject: Re: Another Question about the Northstar Just open hood and pull out the relay. This common problem on chassis dynos, the car will not even go. I have not tested any NorthStars so not sure of exact location, Usally a large rectangular black box similiar to ABS relay. which you can also pull if you do not want ABS. These are rather fail safe systems so you should not have any crash problems. You could hook up a dash mounted switch, and label it burn out, most Euro cars have this. Note your idiot lights will go on. ABS at the 1st occurence of 55, antislip anything over 5 mph when slipping. For data line I have seen wheel messages on the obd2 bus, but for control probably uses higher speed CAN Class C protocol. I was working on a Class B intercept box for alt fuel conversions in 96 but have not looked into traction and brake systems yet. Alex > Use a tech2 or diacom to look at if torque management is being used. > Northstars don't have a lot of torque. > Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Roger Heflin > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 6:58 AM > Subject: Re: Another Question about the Northstar > > > > > > > >On Sun, 11 Apr 1999, Chris Moore wrote: > > > >> Hi everyone, > >> I think you all know the problem I was having. But for those who > >> don't, My wheels will not peel out. I have a power problem in the > >> low end. Again I think it has to do with the Torque Management > >> system on the 4.6 Northstar. I was looking into just making a pulse > >> generator to produce a wheel speed signal and run it into the brake > >> module. But I was thinking. The Northstar has two wires that run > >> into the PCM from the EBTCM(Electronic Brake Traction Control Module) > >> that have to do with the controling of the Torque Management. The > >> first wire is Delivered Torque and the second wire is Desired Torque > >> Output. These are the wires that let the PCM know how many injectors > >> to shut down and how much timing to retard. It is read by a scanner > >> by percentage.0% to 100%. Now, common sense tells me that one of the > >> wires are a power wire and one is a ground or a return. Is there any > >> way that I could run the correct voltage to the PCM that will say > >> that there is 0% of Torque Management and that would do away with the > >> EBTCM all together. With that being done, that would save me all the > >> hassles of trying to fool the EBTCM. There are other variables to > >> that we would have to try to fool like the RPM, VSS, Throttle > >> position. If we could just figure out how much voltage to send than > >> we could just get rid of the EBTCM and all the other variables would > >> not matter. I hope someone can help me. Thanks everyone for the > >> help. > >> > >> Chris Moore > > > >Probably the best way to figure out what needs to be input is to find > >a helm manual for the car you got the engine from. The mhelm I have > >for my car hass quite a bit of detail on the wiring and what sort of > >signals and ranges are supposed to be on those wires. If the wires > >are "delivered torque" and "desired torque" then making sure the > >"desired torque" is a higher value than the "delivered torque" would > >probably make everything work correctly. And assuming (dangerous) > >that the input signals are both 5V, rig a voltage divider and give the > >"desired torque" a bit higher value than the delievered torque, and > >the computer should no longer back things off. The sure way to know > >though would be to find/borrow a copy of the helm for that car and > >study the section on the traction control system. > > > > Roger > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:49:07 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Another Question about the Northstar It's an engine swap in a Fiero. He's installed the brake/traction control module as well as engine controls. Should he disconnect them? Shannen xxalexx@xxx.com wrote: > > Just open hood and pull out the relay. > This common problem on chassis dynos, the car will not even go. > I have not tested any NorthStars so not sure of exact location, > Usally a large rectangular black box similiar to ABS relay. > which you can also pull if you do not want ABS. > These are rather fail safe systems so you should not have any > crash problems. You could hook up a dash mounted switch, > and label it burn out, most Euro cars have this. Note your idiot > lights will go on. ABS at the 1st occurence of 55, antislip > anything over 5 mph when slipping. > For data line I have seen wheel messages on the obd2 bus, but for > control probably uses higher speed CAN Class C protocol. > I was working on a Class B intercept box for alt fuel conversions > in 96 but have not looked into traction and brake systems yet. > Alex > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:33:13 +0000 From: xxalexx@xxx.com Subject: Re: Another Question about the Northstar > It's an engine swap in a Fiero. > He's installed the brake/traction control module as well as engine > controls. Should he disconnect them? > Shannen Just electrical relay box. The hydraulic brakes and mechanical systems will still work. Just in case try on street with no children and bring insurance card. Alex ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:03:24 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER - ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Jones To: Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 3:25 PM Subject: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER GM used them on the early BBC Chevy pickups. Would I insult ya if I said it's mentioned in the archives, I think the part no too. Bruce > I am looking for an adapter to use a GM tbi on a 4barrel Holly or Q-Jet > manifold. > Has anyone seen one advertised? > thanks > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:14:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020" Subject: Re: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER > > I am looking for an adapter to use a GM tbi on a 4barrel Holly or Q-Jet > manifold. > Has anyone seen one advertised? > thanks edelbrock among others used to sell 2-4bbls adaptors maybe you can modify one of those they are in the $ 20 range Clive ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:25:30 -0400 From: Todd Israels Subject: Re: DFI vs TEC II At 09:51 AM 4/5/99 PDT, you wrote: >Posted this question a few days ago and never saw it come across, so >I'll try again. > >Looking for advice concerning which EFI computer to use. I'm at the >point where I need to buy the EFI computer for my twin turbo SBC, in a >street/strip '81 Corvette. I'll be using a two bar sensor and want to >run it as a MAP system. Looking at the DFI and the TEC II systems. The >DFI seems to be very popular and is widely used. I remember seeing >several of these computers in use at the Silver State Classic two years >ago. > >The TEC II is touted as the best thing next to the expensive Motec >system. It has a data logging feature and many options for the various >types of software available, such as MAP, MAF. However, by time you pay >for the software license, the TEC II seems to be more expensive. > >Based on experience is the TEC II worth the extra $$, or is the DFI >everything needed? Is one easier to tune than the other? Does one >system do a better job of fine tuning fuel and ignition? >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > I have not used either but looked at both for a friend and chose TEC II because of the DIS ignition eliminates the distributor at the back of the motor on SBC for some applications. The DFI people seemed more helpful on the phone and more focused on the hot rod market. The system installed and started on a base map just fine. Took a bi to be familiar with it but I got it tuned to be a bit ritch especialy if you realy had your foot in it . The cat was removed and the car was taken to another shop to have the bigger turbo installed and finla tunning. It was driven for a month first no problem but minor soot at rear. (the car was an early turbo Trans Am, and i dinden want to melt anything in the newly rebuilt engine.) The other system we considerd in the simple digital systems in western Canada. The were cheaper and looked easier to get started with for not so computer literate people, since no software is required. If this is a first FI install nad you plan to keep it a long time the most important issues are service and support. You will need help and replacement parts. Todd Israels ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:29:40 -0400 From: Todd Israels Subject: Re: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER At 03:25 PM 4/13/99 -0400, you wrote: >I am looking for an adapter to use a GM tbi on a 4barrel Holly or Q-Jet >manifold. >Has anyone seen one advertised? >thanks > A 1/4 inch alluminum plate some transfer punches and a jigsaw(or mill) is al that is needed to make one if none available. Todd Israels ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:08:42 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Racing ECM available from GM Maybe discontinued, but 1993 Olds Rocketparts book shows part no. 22551577 ECM for offroad applications using quad 4 engine, uses factory inputs, supports "rocket recorder"??? data acquisition system, and race cal's are available as sub part nos. Anyone have more info? Also available is motorsports wiring harness # 22551578 for above ECM, which has needed circuits only for use in racing classes. This stuff may be mainly intended for SCCA classes. Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:34:48 +1000 From: "Simon & Heidi Young" Subject: Re: sequential gearboxes Finally something I can contribute to, I'm still learning all this EFI stuff. Of course sequential boxes are kinda EFI related as one of the advantages they bring is the capacity to set up a "shift withou lift" system, programmed through the ECU. It woult be possible to rig a hydraulic or electro-mechanical system to make an H pattern box shift like a sequential (ie the lever acts like a seq.), the question is why bother, it will likely be more clumsy and innefficient than a properly set up H pattern. Anyway, if the box has synchros you will probably not be able to use the faster shift speed a seq. system may give you. The other alternative would be to modify the box to make it a true sequential. This would involve mounting the forks on a rail where they are free to slide and adding the "barrel" to make the right fork engage as the previous one disengages. Yes it's done exactly like a motorcycle box. Entirely possible and a challenging project for a well equipped machinist but for the DIYist ? I know where you are coming from though, how slick do those CART/BTCC/WRC shifts look. Simon Young Sunbury, Australia ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:40:37 -0400 From: Paul Tholey Subject: Re: Another Question about the Northstar My vote is NO, cause the engine works as part of the traction control, cutting up to 5 cyl out. If the ABS light turns on and you press the throttle, the engine will begin to cut cyl. out to pick up for the ABS fault. HTH Paul Tholey At 12:49 PM 4/13/99 -0400, you wrote: >It's an engine swap in a Fiero. >He's installed the brake/traction control module as well as engine >controls. Should he disconnect them? >Shannen > >xxalexx@xxx.com wrote: >> >> Just open hood and pull out the relay. >> This common problem on chassis dynos, the car will not even go. >> I have not tested any NorthStars so not sure of exact location, >> Usally a large rectangular black box similiar to ABS relay. >> which you can also pull if you do not want ABS. >> These are rather fail safe systems so you should not have any >> crash problems. You could hook up a dash mounted switch, >> and label it burn out, most Euro cars have this. Note your idiot >> lights will go on. ABS at the 1st occurence of 55, antislip >> anything over 5 mph when slipping. >> For data line I have seen wheel messages on the obd2 bus, but for >> control probably uses higher speed CAN Class C protocol. >> I was working on a Class B intercept box for alt fuel conversions >> in 96 but have not looked into traction and brake systems yet. >> Alex >> > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:40:51 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER Pretty sure I remember doing some research to get that number. It's called a "heater" in GM speak. Shannen Bruce Plecan wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Jones > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 3:25 PM > Subject: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER > > GM used them on the early BBC Chevy pickups. > Would I insult ya if I said it's mentioned in the archives, I think the part > no too. > Bruce > > > I am looking for an adapter to use a GM tbi on a 4barrel Holly or Q-Jet > > manifold. > > Has anyone seen one advertised? > > thanks > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:52:13 -0400 From: "Frederic Breitwieser" Subject: Re: DFI vs TEC II >types of software available, such as MAP, MAF. However, by time you pay >for the software license, the TEC II seems to be more expensive. Actually I did in fact reply to your message... however I just built a new server because the old one foobar'd, therefore maybe it didn't make it through successfully. I have a fair amount of experience with Haltach and TecII, and for a forced induction engine, its a mere toss-up. The one major, major advantage of the TEC-II is that its an under-hood bolt together system that uses OEM sensors (or Electromotive sensors - same thing) using spade connectors. The TEC units have screw terminals everywhere, and you can interface this to your engine very easily. Go to the junkyard, buy sensors, and take the wires going to said sensors and cut them as far back as you can. Reduces the price significantly actually. The software is very expensive, however it is as flexible as you can imagine. Boost, no boost, MAP/MAF, etc, and you can change your configuration very easily as you add one or two turbochargers . I think compared between the two, the TEC II is the leader. Bolt it to your firewall, and its done. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:16:45 -0600 From: kv@xxx.com Subject: Re: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER I have an adapter from Transdapt that mates a big block TB to a SB TBI manifold. I also thought I just recently saw a special manifold ---er --- maybe that was to stick a TBI manifold on the old style 350 heads... I think that is what it was- ________________________________________________ Kevin Vannorsdel IBM Arm Electronics Development 408-256-6492 Tie 276-6492 kv@xxx.com Shannen Durphey on 04/13/99 02:40:51 PM Please respond to diy_efi@xxx.edu To: diy_efi@xxx.edu cc: (bcc: Kevin Vannorsdel/San Jose/IBM) Subject: Re: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER Pretty sure I remember doing some research to get that number. It's called a "heater" in GM speak. Shannen Bruce Plecan wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Jones > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 3:25 PM > Subject: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER > > GM used them on the early BBC Chevy pickups. > Would I insult ya if I said it's mentioned in the archives, I think the part > no too. > Bruce > > > I am looking for an adapter to use a GM tbi on a 4barrel Holly or Q-Jet > > manifold. > > Has anyone seen one advertised? > > thanks > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:02:00 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: DFI vs TEC II >At 09:51 AM 4/5/99 PDT, you wrote: >>Posted this question a few days ago and never saw it come across, so >>I'll try again. >> >>Looking for advice concerning which EFI computer to use. I'm at the >>point where I need to buy the EFI computer for my twin turbo SBC, in a >>street/strip '81 Corvette. I'll be using a two bar sensor and want to >>run it as a MAP system. Looking at the DFI and the TEC II systems. The >>DFI seems to be very popular and is widely used. I remember seeing >>several of these computers in use at the Silver State Classic two years >>ago. >> >>The TEC II is touted as the best thing next to the expensive Motec >>system. It has a data logging feature and many options for the various >>types of software available, such as MAP, MAF. However, by time you pay >>for the software license, the TEC II seems to be more expensive. >> >>Based on experience is the TEC II worth the extra $$, or is the DFI >>everything needed? Is one easier to tune than the other? Does one >>system do a better job of fine tuning fuel and ignition? >>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >> Take a hard look at Autronics if Motec is too rich for you. Greg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:42:48 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe Subject: Re: 302 vs 460 Tom Sharpe wrote: > Pat Ford wrote: > > probly a cobra kit car, > > yadayadayada. I appologize to the list for carrying on, but Cobra drivers are wound different. I meant to send the message offlist but failed again. Sharpe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:31:21 +0000 From: xxalexx@xxx.com Subject: Re: Another Question about the Northstar Slight correction, on dyno with relay in the ABS light goes on at 53 mph and engine and brakes work fine. If you do pull relay the engine and brakes also work ok. If the car has antislip you can not get it to run over 5 mph. on a dyno. Here you are simulating doing a burn out on ice. The car sounds very strange in drive train and engine almost stalls. I did not realize the cyls.were cutting out. I thought it was in differential and transmission. To get it to run pull the relay which is simular to ABS. I usally pull both since I have limited time on dyno to figure which one it is. The only American car I ran was a Ford sedan. The owners manual said, if you want to disable antislip there is a switch located in the left side of glovebox. I tried this, but it seemed to only turn off with engine running and you had to press it on every start. I found this out during a cold start test. So I just yanked the relay out thru it across the room. came back in 8 hrs and car ran fine. Alex > My vote is NO, cause the engine works as part of the traction control, > cutting up to 5 cyl out. If the ABS light turns on and you press the > throttle, the engine will begin to cut cyl. out to pick up for the ABS fault. > > HTH > > Paul Tholey > > At 12:49 PM 4/13/99 -0400, you wrote: > >It's an engine swap in a Fiero. > >He's installed the brake/traction control module as well as engine > >controls. Should he disconnect them? > >Shannen > > > >xxalexx@xxx.com wrote: > >> > >> Just open hood and pull out the relay. > >> This common problem on chassis dynos, the car will not even go. > >> I have not tested any NorthStars so not sure of exact location, > >> Usally a large rectangular black box similiar to ABS relay. > >> which you can also pull if you do not want ABS. > >> These are rather fail safe systems so you should not have any > >> crash problems. You could hook up a dash mounted switch, > >> and label it burn out, most Euro cars have this. Note your idiot > >> lights will go on. ABS at the 1st occurence of 55, antislip > >> anything over 5 mph when slipping. > >> For data line I have seen wheel messages on the obd2 bus, but for > >> control probably uses higher speed CAN Class C protocol. > >> I was working on a Class B intercept box for alt fuel conversions > >> in 96 but have not looked into traction and brake systems yet. > >> Alex > >> > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:23:42 -0400 From: Raymond C Drouillard Subject: Holley Pro-Jection 4D instructions I just purchased the six-knob programmer that is used on Holley Pro-Jection 4D. I am using it on my 4Di to more easily "rough in" the settings. Unfortunately, I lost the instructions for using it. If anyone has the instructions and can scan or fax them, I will be eternally grateful. If you scan the instructions, please send them to: cosmicray@xxx. My Juno.com account doesn't receive binaries. Thanks in advance, Ray Drouillard ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:24:24 +0000 From: xxalexx@xxx.com Subject: Re: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? There is some bosch part numbers in archive (not wide band) I pulled when out of a German car last year, the exhaust shroud was rather large and strange, and had accumulated alot of round deposits (lead) so probably in trash can. The catalyst has been known to go bad rather rapidly with leaded gas. alex > From: "Bruce Plecan" > To: > Subject: Re: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? > Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:28:06 -0400 > Reply-to: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David A. Cooley > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 9:09 AM > Subject: Re: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? > > Ya but the Holdens used O2 sensors in New Zeland the whole time. > The Saudi sy's had an O2, they snipped the wire thou. > There are some posts in the archives, where people have exported cars to > countries using leaded fuels and did just fine. > Bruce > > > > Actually, > > The Export models of cars that are destined for countries with leaded > fuels > > have the PCM's calibrated to operate with no O2 sensors or cats. As an > > example, the Export exhaust system for the impala SS is an H pipe from the > > manifolds down to the intermediate pipe that replaces the cats and has no > > bungs for O2 sensors... The Saudi Syclone/Typhoons were the same way... No > > cats, no O2 sensors. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bruce Plecan > > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > > Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 9:03 AM > > Subject: Re: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: greg kring > > >To: > > >Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 1:19 AM > > >Subject: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? > > > > > >Now bear this in mind that this is just personal theory, and I have > > >absolutely no doumentation on it. But: > > > Up until the last year or so Some countries were using only leaded > fuels, > > >with O2 sensors. So the issue of being leaded, is void, in my book. > > > The US and some other countries have outlawed unleaded for street use, > > one > > >way to make that law totally enforceable for late model cars is using an > > >additive that kills O2 sensors. Which also explains some of the secrecy > > >about what is in the gasoline we buy. > > > Also, explains way there is such a large opinion as to O2 life. > > > The WB O2s all seem to be heated, and I just wonder if that helps > reduce > > >stuff from accumulating on the sensor during warm-up, which might be what > > is > > >actually killing the sensors. > > > One of the designers of the Fel-Pro unit used to/might still subscribe > to > > >the GN/Ttype list, just be sure to mention Buick V-6 in your post.... > > >Bruce > > > Sneezy's in trouble again. Was a Hooters and thought he saw an owl > move > > >under one of the gals shirt. He tried protecting here, and some how got > in > > >trouble for that.... Just doesn't pay trying to be a good samaritian > > > > > >> I know leaded gas will poison a standard oxygen sensor, but what > happens > > >> to the UEGO wideband sensor under repeated use with leaded gas? Most of > > >> the racers I know just leave their standard sensor in at the dragstrip > > >> using leaded gas, then switch back to unleaded for the street. When the > > >> sensor goes bad, about once or twice a year, they just replace it. Easy > > >> to do with a 30 buck sensor, not so with a high dollar wideband. The > > >> whole purpose of the wideband on my Fel-Pro system is to tune at wide > > >> open throttle, which happens at the track with 116 octane leaded gas. > > >> Any ideas on life expectancy? We are talking 5 or 6 passes down the > > >> track, then back to street gas all week. > > >> Greg Kring > > >> Arlington, Texas > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:45:33 -0700 From: "Peter Fenske" Subject: Re: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER Howday Not quite sure but check out Holley PN 17-41 or PN 17-45 GL:peter ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #225 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".