DIY_EFI Digest Friday, April 16 1999 Volume 04 : Number 227 In this issue: Re: Simulation/Modeling Tools Re: wanted corvette transmission TEC II Twincharger controling system Re: Twincharger controling system Re: sequential gearboxes Whippled Hummers Re: Simulation/Modeling Tools tbi adapter ECU or ECM data files ECU or ECM data files seek knowledge 7747ecu Re: tbi adapter Re: sequential gearboxes See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 05:16:12 EDT From: FHPREMACH@xxx.com Subject: Re: Simulation/Modeling Tools In a message dated 4/14/99 8:47:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, memvive@xxx.ca writes: << David Rhoads wrote: > > Help ... > > I'm looking for some additional information to wrap up a term paper that > I'm writing. What I need is info/comments on various > modeling/simluation languages/tools The Pro/Eng (Pro/Engineer) package is indeed the most complete one I have seen with mechanical, heat transfer and motion simulations. Hope this helps, -- Helene V. >> I beg to differ. ProE is a cumbersome package. If you want to use what the big boys use, look to SDRC IDEAS and Fluent Rampant for design and Computational Fluid Dynamics respectively. This is what people like Ford, Ilmor and others of that caliber use. The company (an international aerodynamics research and consulting firm) where I was in charge of design of gaging and database development spent a great deal of time evaluating packages. We talked to a number of companies who had IDEAS and ProE experience and they were fairly unanimous in their recommendation for design and analysis. Fluent is the world leader in CFD for virtually every kind of fluids flow analysis as well as thermal and combustion analysis. IDEAS was recommended by them as a tool for preprocessing the data for their analysis suite. Talk to these people. You will find that they are both companies with strong educational ties. Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:41:55 -0400 From: Ken Kelly Subject: Re: wanted corvette transmission Chris, Check the gmecm list. Dave and I are working on this PCM. A scanner is available on Dave's web site, http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Shop/1624/ and I have a PCM editor in progress. We are still working on the Flash programmer. I socketed my chips to allow changes for now. Ken "Chris G. Lucas" wrote: > > Check www.gearzone.net This is the "Home of Corvette 4+3 Overdrives". There is > alot of information on this transmission here. Paul Blaccard (Admin) is very > informed of these and other manual transmissions. His email is > support@xxx. Sorry it took so long, I am just onlooking the discussion > as of now. I am wondering what I need to get started in interfacing the computer > of a 94 Z28 6speed. I have no idea where to begin. Thanks > > Chris Lucas > > WATCHmeDRV@xxx.com wrote: > > > I am looking for super T10 parts or the complete trans. It's a 4+3 for a > > corvette. > > If anyone can help me with some parts or a complete trans that you might have > > laying around, It would sure help me out. My # is 706-547-0052, if no answer > > please leave a message. > > Thanks, > > DETROIT AMERSON ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:31:23 -0700 From: Jason_Leone@xxx.com Subject: TEC II <> Unfortunately (for Volvo/Audi folk), the TEC II direct fire ignition coils are dual cylinder firing (and the injector firing scheme is similar). So, the TEC II is limited to an even numbers of cylinders (4,6,8,and 12). Jason '93 SLC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:51:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Scott Winnicki Subject: Twincharger controling system I am curently trying to build a controler for my twin charged 87 TII RX7. The car has a 40 CI Supercharger blowing through the stock rx7 turbo. THe SC has a electric clutch and is curently manually operated (via a triger on the shifter) I have two pressure gagues mounted on the car (one pre-Turbo and one post turbo) Right now I usally triger the SC at about - -10 Hg then let off on the SC when I see the pre turbo gauge starts to drop. In addition I have a one-way check valve that allows the SC to be bypassed The problem: It is really hard to manually turn on and off the SC during anything but dragging (straight line stop and start) I want to make a circut that will compare the pre turbo and post turbo pressures and operated the SC according. Any ideas? I think I will have to go digital, but I suck at designing circuts. thanks bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:01:12 -0300 From: "Ord Millar" Subject: Re: Twincharger controling system It sounds like you could do that with two (or more) 393 type comparators. Because their output is open-collector, you can hardware "AND" or "OR" them if you need to. Maybe a low pass filter first? - -----Original Message----- From: Robert Scott Winnicki To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Thursday, April 15, 1999 5:38 PM Subject: Twincharger controling system > >I am curently trying to build a controler for my twin charged 87 TII RX7. >The car has a 40 CI Supercharger blowing through the stock rx7 turbo. THe >SC has a electric clutch and is curently manually operated (via a triger >on the shifter) I have two pressure gagues mounted on the car (one >pre-Turbo and one post turbo) Right now I usally triger the SC at about >-10 Hg then let off on the SC when I see the pre turbo gauge starts to >drop. In addition I have a one-way check valve that allows the SC to be >bypassed > >The problem: It is really hard to manually turn on and off the SC during >anything but dragging (straight line stop and start) > >I want to make a circut that will compare the pre turbo and post turbo >pressures and operated the SC according. Any ideas? I think I will have >to go digital, but I suck at designing circuts. > >thanks >bob > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:54:58 +1000 From: "Simon & Heidi Young" Subject: Re: sequential gearboxes > > " Shift without lift " sounds good and i have > heard a little about it, is this where the engine > management system reduces engine rpm by cutting > cylinders during a gearchange ? Sorta. With a dog ring box you can't shift without unloading the box. The dogs have a back cut which locks the gear and dog together under load. SWOL senses the load in the shift lever and unloads the box, letting it change. The exact details of what happens I could never get the engine guys (Cosworth) to tell me but from what I've seen it is little more than the equivalent of backing off the throttle and getting right back on as you would in a normal clutchless change. The turbo engines have a "ninth" butterfly between the turbo and plenum, this is controlled by a servo motor via the ECU, the throttle cable acts on the main butterflys and IGV (inlet guide vane, a system to keep the turbo spooled up while the throttle is closed). In action SWOL simply slams the ninth butterfly closed and open again, enough to free the dogs and let the shift proceed. There may be a spark cut but really it happens so fast I doubt that it is necessary. How things are handled on NA engines I'm not sure. I have seen one article in a local boy racer mag describing how to set up a flat change by sensing clutch depression and activating a rev limiter while you shift, dodgy at best. Simon Sunbury, Australia ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:21:26 -0400 From: "Frederic" Subject: Whippled Hummers >I am new to this list. I am an owner of a 350 gas Hummer for the last 3 >years. Many on the Hummer mailing list have been talking about putting in a Good choice :) See my tagline :) >Whipple -worm type superchargers. I make claims that there have been >reports that the whipple is associated with bottom end going, even with 4 >bolts mains blazer engines. Some of the problems with Off road and Fording Yes, whipple chargers will absolutely boost the low end, which is where you want it considering the application for the vehicle. >body injection engine to have problem, but it is hanging in there without a >whimper or a miss. This is a post I made this week, based on several Irregardless of engine, forced induction, etc, you have to make sure its absolutely water tight. Being fuel injected or not doesn't make a difference... you can always mount the ECM in a water proof metal box (small milk box-like thing). Gaskets, gaskets, gaskets. EFI has a major advantage over carbs - the engine can run in nearly any position fuel wise. A steep incline can result in lean or rich mixtures with a carb. THis is why my friends and I used a dual-holley intake, and have the carbs facing away from one another, on a steep incline, one's rich one's lean, which helped. Not as much as we hoped. EFI is really the way to go. Use good gaskets and good sealant. - ------ Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1975 Dodge D200 Extended Cab/Bed (413 + twin turbos) 2000 Twin Turbo Buick GTP V6 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:10:21 -0400 From: H Villemure Subject: Re: Simulation/Modeling Tools How much $$$? Do you own a copy yourself? FHPREMACH@xxx.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/14/99 8:47:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > memvive@xxx.ca writes: > > << David Rhoads wrote: > > > > Help ... > > > > I'm looking for some additional information to wrap up a term paper that > > I'm writing. What I need is info/comments on various > > modeling/simluation languages/tools > > The Pro/Eng (Pro/Engineer) package is indeed the most complete one I > have seen with mechanical, heat transfer and motion simulations. > > Hope this helps, > -- > Helene V. >> > > I beg to differ. ProE is a cumbersome package. If you want to use what the > big boys use, look to SDRC IDEAS and Fluent Rampant for design and > Computational Fluid Dynamics respectively. This is what people like Ford, > Ilmor and others of that caliber use. The company (an international > aerodynamics research and consulting firm) where I was in charge of design of > gaging and database development spent a great deal of time evaluating > packages. We talked to a number of companies who had IDEAS and ProE > experience and they were fairly unanimous in their recommendation for design > and analysis. Fluent is the world leader in CFD for virtually every kind of > fluids flow analysis as well as thermal and combustion analysis. IDEAS was > recommended by them as a tool for preprocessing the data for their analysis > suite. > Talk to these people. You will find that they are both companies with strong > educational ties. > Fred - -- Helene V. ___________________ welcome to mk2@xxx.com visit us at http://come.to/helene-and-matti ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:07:04 -0400 From: "Eugene Jones" Subject: tbi adapter I asked for an adapter for a tbi to a carb intake and Bruce Plecan responded and others. I would like to find the gm part number to the "heater" adapter for 87-89 bigblock trucks, if anyone has it. no, I could not find it in the efi archives. I have designed a 3/4" aluminum plate that will bolt efi (350 or 454 type) to both a holley 4150/4160 intake or a holley spread-bore(quadrojet) manifolds. if you need a copy of this drawing (in microsoft word format) just let me know. I am having it quoted for machining by a couple of local machine shop (Greenville, S.C.) will post price later. thanks, Gene Jones ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:06:35 +1000 From: Wayne Blair Subject: ECU or ECM data files Hi all, I've been getting requests for .ecu file for Promedit. Has any one built up any of these files for various ECU. If you could post any info files you'd like to share to the "incoming" area I can point people at it. Or is there a collection of these some where ? There is a newer version of promedit on the ftp site. IF! I get the time I'll enhance the program so it can work with the TUNA style info file also. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< bye >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wayne [Brisbane Australia] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:06:35 +1000 From: Wayne Blair Subject: ECU or ECM data files Hi all, I've been getting requests for .ecu file for Promedit. Has any one built up any of these files for various ECU. If you could post any info files you'd like to share to the "incoming" area I can point people at it. Or is there a collection of these some where ? There is a newer version of promedit on the ftp site. IF! I get the time I'll enhance the program so it can work with the TUNA style info file also. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< bye >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wayne [Brisbane Australia] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:05:49 -0700 From: "Mike Pilkenton" Subject: seek knowledge Well this is probably a basic question for you experts but I have to start somewhere. I understand that the various MEMCALs contain the efi tables, fuel, spark curves, etc. in the form of hex codes programmed into the EEPROM. However there must be am operating system or basic program that runs on the computer and controls the logic. For example: step 1: go get engine data step 2: pump fuel and spark step 3: repeat Although this is extremely oversimplified, my question is: does this basic program also reside in the MEMCAL or is it resident somewhere else on the ECM computer? I would also like for someone to email me a sample program perhaps converted to some common programming language so as to illustrate the typical logic involved with runnung an efi system. I'm not ready to play with fuel and spark maps but just want to gain more systems level knowledge. Mike Pilkenton ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:18:10 -0600 From: cwagner@xxx.net Subject: 7747ecu I have a modified ECU file for use with promedit. It is for use with any 7747 bin's. If anybody wants to give it a try, let me know and I will email it to you since I don't know how to upload it to the ftp area. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:28:55 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: tbi adapter - ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Jones To: Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 11:07 PM Subject: tbi adapter Try 11/18/97 Bruce > I asked for an adapter for a tbi to a carb intake and Bruce Plecan > responded and others. > I would like to find the gm part number to the "heater" adapter for 87-89 > bigblock trucks, if anyone has it. > no, I could not find it in the efi archives. > I have designed a 3/4" aluminum plate that will bolt efi (350 or 454 type) > to both a holley 4150/4160 intake or a holley spread-bore(quadrojet) > manifolds. if you need a copy of this drawing (in microsoft word format) > just let me know. I am having it quoted for machining by a couple of local > machine shop (Greenville, S.C.) will post price later. > thanks, > Gene Jones ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 00:15:05 -0500 From: "G. Scott Ponton" Subject: Re: sequential gearboxes Well I guess I will have to put my foot in my mouth on this one :-) I have been shifting a 4 speed without "lifting" for over 25 years. It's a little hard on the syncros in some boxes but isn't that hard to accomplish. It's just a matter of timing the shift with clutch and shifter. When the timing is perfect it's unusual for the RPMs to climb more than a couple of hundred between shifts. It's true that there is a need to unload the shift "dogs" in a normal trans. Although it's not become they are back cut. It has more to do with the surface area of the dogs. If you grind every other dog off of the gear you don't have to use the clutch at all. This was fairly commom practice in the 60's. They used to call them "crash boxes" Worked well until the tires and power levels got a lot better. Then strength became a factor. For awhile Perfection-Hi Test made special replacement shift syncro hubs and gears, which had larger dogs much like a motorcycle trans, for the muncie trans. Do to the liminted surface area they were prone to junmping out of gear on de-.accell as the detents weren't stiff enough. If you look closely at a motorcycle trans the dogs square without a back angle. These transmissions are held in the selected gears but fairly stout detents and notches in the sequential "barrel". Also due to being designed for sequential operation the surface area of the dogs is nearly equal to that of a stock automotive transmission. There also used to be a company which made sequential shifters for automotive 4 speeds. I haven't seen one advertised in over 20 years though. It worked much like a "V-gate" other than you didn't need to lift the handle to shift down from 3rd to 2cd. you just rowed the shifter handle back and forth to upshift and after you were in 4th the next time you moved the shifter you would go the other way. It never caught on, probably because you had to shift through all the gears every time you wanted to "find" a particular one. As the only thing you need to do is release the pressure on the gear set to dis-engage the current gear it should be possible to cut one or two ignition pulses in a NA app. Designing a shifter shouldn't be to hard to do. You could use air, hydraulic, or even electric. With the proper cam and ratchet design it would even be possible to upshift and downshift without having to go all the way to 4th before you could start downshift or all the way to 1st before upshifting. Just my $.02 Scott ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #227 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".