DIY_EFI Digest Sunday, April 18 1999 Volume 04 : Number 230 In this issue: Solution to non-functioning panel gauges. Re: Twin Turbos (Massive snippage safe to read) 89 GTP Kelp needed Re: Solution to non-functioning panel gauges. 6.5 Diesel TCM info wanted Emulator Re: 6.5 Diesel TCM info wanted Re: 6.5 Diesel TCM info wanted Won't go into learn Re: Won't go into learn Re: Won't go into learn Re: Won't go into learn RE: Won't go into learn Re: Won't go into learn Re: Won't go into learn Re: sequential gearboxes Accel DFI for sale Re: Solution to non-functioning panel gauges. See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 08:56:15 From: Bob Tom Subject: Solution to non-functioning panel gauges. I am looking for any advice/comments on getting the instrument panel gauges to function which resulted from a PCM swap. I believe this is topic-related; more on the diy side than the efi side. Situation: I have replaced a '97 PCM with an '96 MP high-performance PCM. Both PCMs are ODB-II. The performance gain is significant (.7 sec. off e.t., 5 mph trap gain) but the panel gauges (water temp./ oil pressure/gas level/speedometer/tachometer) are not functioning. I've done this because MP has not put out a '97 hipo PCM and I'd like to achieve a 1/4 mi. e.t. goal that I have in mind. Analysis from FSMs: The '96 Dakota's gauges receive signals either from the PCM or directly from the sensors. The '97 Dakota's panel gauges receive signals via the CCD bus from the Central Timer Module which, in turn, receives signals via the CCD bus from the PCM. These signals come from two pinouts in the PCM (CCD+ and CCD- pinouts). Conclusion: The Central Timer Module is not receiving any signals because the '96 did not use a CCD bus system. Question: Would the following idea be a possible/simple solution? Use the datalink connector (the one in which a diagnostic tool is connected) and route the above-mentioned signals (assuming that they are there) to the Central Timer Module? Any comments or other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Bob Burlington, Ontario '97 CC Sport, 5.2L, 3.55, auto., 4x2 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 08:00:53 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Twin Turbos (Massive snippage safe to read) >>or 1500 rpm, and WAY more efficient than even a screw compressor type > >That's exactly why I want one... just don't have quite that much cash. They >spool up to full boost much earlier, like you said. Matches everything I've >read. > >>supercharger (such as a Whipple). > > >I never considered the Whipple all that efficient... you're talking the >intake mounted unit, like the Weilands, right? A Whipple-charger (which is a true screw compressor, actually made by Auto-Rotor, in Scandinavia) is easily 50% more efficient than a good old Roots type blower. (As in all the various size variants of the Jimmy "Screamin' Demon" 2 stroke diesel blowers.) (Remember--the Jimmy diesels never meant their blower to generate any boost--these type blowers are only really properly applied as a positive displacement, very low pressure fan!) I got a copy of the volumetric efficiency--adiabatic efficiency curves for the various size Autorotor compressors from Whipple a while back. Most of the screw compressors have an AE that peaks at about 55 or 60%--as compared to a 68 to 76% peak AE (in the center of the "island") for most decent centrifugal compressors. Another interesting point with the screws is that you have to spin them at a pretty good clip before their VE comes up to a decent level (due to blow back being a significant percentage of their displacement at low speeds). So--a properly matched Whipple unit (matched so as not to overspeed it at the top end) probably does not get the boost up at any lower engine speed than a VATN turbo will. Likewise for a properly matched Roots blower. Be EXTREMELY interesting to see what happens when the AA/F dragster boys figure out what VATN turbos could do for THEM!!! (One per cylinder??? With acetone/dry ice cooled intercoolers???? 4's anyone??) :-) Yeeee Hawwwww!!!--Whole new kind of skiin' for Grumpy!! Regards, Greg > >Frederic ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 11:18:09 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: 89 GTP Kelp needed Any body got any info on the 89 GTP calibrations?. Mask ID 8F Candidate BCCs of ASAN ASMF ATMJ ATMK AUAD AZRC... Any other related items appreciated, wiring diagrams, (chassis+engine). ((Even old parts, ecms (HAHA) etc)) This time, it's for CSH, HQ Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 11:39:19 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: Solution to non-functioning panel gauges. At 08:56 AM 4/17/99 +0000, you wrote: >Analysis from FSMs: >The '96 Dakota's gauges receive signals either from the PCM >or directly from the sensors. The '97 Dakota's panel gauges >receive signals via the CCD bus from the Central Timer Module >which, in turn, receives signals via the CCD bus from the PCM. >These signals come from two pinouts in the PCM (CCD+ and CCD- >pinouts). Bob, The 96 did receive signals direct from the PCM... in 97 with the implementation of true OBD_II to all modules in the vehicle, the OBD_II data bus (SAE J-1850 protocol) connects to all the modules in the vehicle, and guage data etc is on this. To make the guages work, you either need the 97 PCM, or the 96 dash and manually wire up the guages to the PCM's outputs. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 19:37:46 +0200 From: Niinikoski Juha Subject: 6.5 Diesel TCM info wanted I have 97 Hummer NA Diesel with 4L80E transmission. Transmission controller (TCM) in my Hummer is: serv no 16196390 BRZY 86BRZYMC62330269 16229189 BRZY I have another TCM box serv no 16196390 BXNS 86BXNSMC71040526 16244899 BXNS 1. can anyone explain how to read these numbers. What is hardware type / version and what is software version ? 2. Does anyone happen to know differences of these boxes ? Best Regards Juha Niinikoski ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:41:06 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Emulator Hello all, Those that wanted to get in on the Beta of the Emulator need to speak up... I have received 2 checks for the beta boards so far... I need at least 5 to make an order. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:56:23 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: 6.5 Diesel TCM info wanted At 07:37 PM 4/17/99 +0200, you wrote: > >I have 97 Hummer NA Diesel with 4L80E transmission. Transmission controller >(TCM) in my Hummer is: > >serv no 16196390 BRZY >86BRZYMC62330269 >16229189 BRZY > > >I have another TCM box > >serv no 16196390 BXNS >86BXNSMC71040526 >16244899 BXNS > > >1. >can anyone explain how to read these numbers. What is hardware type / >version and what is software version ? > >2. >Does anyone happen to know differences of these boxes ? The 2 boxes are identical... 16196390 is the service replacement part number... the BRZY and BXNS are the calibrations that came from the factory in each box. the 16229189 BRZY and 16244899 BXNS are the part numbers of the box with the CAL. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 18:16:41 -0700 From: "Michael Selig" Subject: Re: 6.5 Diesel TCM info wanted >From the Do it yourself Electronic Fuel Injection list.. (diy_efi) BTW this list interestingly talks more about TURBO than normally aspirated applications.. Probably because the components, senders and computers are interchangeable.. - ----- Original Message ----- From: David A. Cooley To: Sent: Saturday, April 17, 1999 9:56 AM Subject: Re: 6.5 Diesel TCM info wanted At 07:37 PM 4/17/99 +0200, you wrote: > >I have 97 Hummer NA Diesel with 4L80E transmission. Transmission controller >(TCM) in my Hummer is: > >serv no 16196390 BRZY >86BRZYMC62330269 >16229189 BRZY > > >I have another TCM box > >serv no 16196390 BXNS >86BXNSMC71040526 >16244899 BXNS > > >1. >can anyone explain how to read these numbers. What is hardware type / >version and what is software version ? > >2. >Does anyone happen to know differences of these boxes ? The 2 boxes are identical... 16196390 is the service replacement part number... the BRZY and BXNS are the calibrations that came from the factory in each box. the 16229189 BRZY and 16244899 BXNS are the part numbers of the box with the CAL. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 21:08:06 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Won't go into learn I've got a Diacom run of a Syclone that isn't running right. Everything looks good, but the odd thing is that learn stays off... Is this a clue that it's using a default value for something?. Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 21:27:25 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: Won't go into learn At 09:08 PM 4/17/99 -0400, you wrote: >I've got a Diacom run of a Syclone that isn't running right. Everything >looks good, but the odd thing is that learn stays off... Is this a clue >that it's using a default value for something?. That's possible... Is it running an aftermarket chip? If so, wonder if they disabled learn mode... usually if it substitutes a default it also throws a code. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 21:40:31 EDT From: ECMnut@xxx.com Subject: Re: Won't go into learn Hi Bruce, is this chip heavily modded? As in a product of promgrammer ? If so, it might be wise to put the stock chip back in and see if the problem goes away. if you have access to the bin, might check <> ADDR TERM FACT. VALUE 0x034E Frequency Of Block Learn Update 1.10 Sec. 0x037A Thresh. Above Which Learn Disabled 2000 RPM 0x0383 Vac. Load Above Which Blk Learn Is Disabled 0xE0 kPa 0x0384 MAP Load Below Which Blk Learn Is Disabled 0x60 kPa Obviously too lazy to get off my butt & do real work today. Mike V > I've got a Diacom run of a Syclone that isn't running right. Everything > looks good, but the odd thing is that learn stays off... Is this a clue > that it's using a default value for something?. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 22:25:33 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: Won't go into learn - ----- Original Message ----- From: David A. Cooley To: Sent: Saturday, April 17, 1999 9:27 PM Subject: Re: Won't go into learn Don't know about the chip, but the truck had been running OK. All the values seem valid, and move some, commanded AFR at WOT seems resonable (12:1). Just doesn't pull right. Bruce > At 09:08 PM 4/17/99 -0400, you wrote: > >I've got a Diacom run of a Syclone that isn't running right. Everything > >looks good, but the odd thing is that learn stays off... Is this a clue > >that it's using a default value for something?. > > That's possible... Is it running an aftermarket chip? > If so, wonder if they disabled learn mode... usually if it substitutes a > default it also throws a code. > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! > =========================================================== > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 22:07:45 -0500 From: "Jim Sloan" Subject: RE: Won't go into learn Also check 0x034B KO2ATIME O2 Sensor not ready timer 10 sec. Jim Sloan > Hi Bruce, > is this chip heavily modded? > As in a product of promgrammer ? > If so, it might be wise to put the stock chip > back in and see if the problem goes away. > > if you have access to the bin, might check > <> > ADDR TERM > FACT. VALUE > 0x034E Frequency Of Block Learn Update 1.10 Sec. > 0x037A Thresh. Above Which Learn Disabled 2000 RPM > 0x0383 Vac. Load Above Which Blk Learn Is Disabled 0xE0 kPa > 0x0384 MAP Load Below Which Blk Learn Is Disabled 0x60 kPa > Obviously too lazy to get off my butt & do real work today. > Mike V > > > I've got a Diacom run of a Syclone that isn't running right. Everything > > looks good, but the odd thing is that learn stays off... Is > this a clue > > that it's using a default value for something?. > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 22:12:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Roger Heflin Subject: Re: Won't go into learn On Sat, 17 Apr 1999, Bruce Plecan wrote: > I've got a Diacom run of a Syclone that isn't running right. Everything > looks good, but the odd thing is that learn stays off... Is this a clue > that it's using a default value for something?. > Bruce > > Yes, and my car has set a codes when it puts things in that state. When my knock sensor failed it set a knock sensor failed code, and then proceded to run the car in open loop mode (rich, safer for a failed knock sensor). I would think it would set a code if it did go into that mode (unless someone wired the car to permanently be in open loop mode, it could be done, and I have heard that some of the custom chips do do this). Roger ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 22:12:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Roger Heflin Subject: Re: Won't go into learn On Sat, 17 Apr 1999, Bruce Plecan wrote: > I've got a Diacom run of a Syclone that isn't running right. Everything > looks good, but the odd thing is that learn stays off... Is this a clue > that it's using a default value for something?. > Bruce > > Yes, and my car has set a codes when it puts things in that state. When my knock sensor failed it set a knock sensor failed code, and then proceded to run the car in open loop mode (rich, safer for a failed knock sensor). I would think it would set a code if it did go into that mode (unless someone wired the car to permanently be in open loop mode, it could be done, and I have heard that some of the custom chips do do this). Roger ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 21:25:53 -0700 From: "Steve" Subject: Re: sequential gearboxes Big snip > How things are handled on NA engines I'm not sure. I have seen one >article in a local boy racer mag describing how to set up a flat change by >sensing clutch depression and activating a rev limiter while you shift, >dodgy at best. > Actually I have tried this method on my 300ZXT and it works pretty well. The boost doesn't drop off near as much when shifting. Makes for a BIG bang in the exhaust when it turns the spark back on. One caution, this WILL melt your cat if you have one. I did that once and now save this trick for the track only. Regards, Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 22:26:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Bridger Tatum Subject: Accel DFI for sale I have a Accel DFI Spark/Fuel Managment System for sale. The 750cfm billet aluminum throttle body is designed to bolt directly to any 4-barrel intake (IT IS NOT A MULTIPORT SYSTEM). It has less than 800 miles on the system and includes everything needed for the install. Such as, 750 cfm throttle body, ECU, Main harness, Injector harnesses, 36# injectors, Fuel pressure regulator, TPS, MAP sensor, 3-wire O2 sensor, IAC, Water temp sensor, Air temp sensor, Fuel pump, Fuel filter, Chrome air cleaner assymbly, 7-wire GM distributor, Accel knock sensor kit, CalMap Calibration Software and Interface Cable, etc. I have over $1700 in reciepts, but I am asking $1200. If interested I can e-mail pictures. Thanks, Bridger Tatum Dallas, Texas _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 03:32:52 +0000 From: xxalexx@xxx.com Subject: Re: Solution to non-functioning panel gauges. > I am looking for any advice/comments on getting the instrument > panel gauges to function which resulted from a PCM swap. I believe > this is topic-related; more on the diy side than the efi side. > > Situation: > I have replaced a '97 PCM with an '96 MP high-performance PCM. > Both PCMs are ODB-II. The performance gain is significant (.7 sec. > off e.t., 5 mph trap gain) but the panel gauges (water temp./ > oil pressure/gas level/speedometer/tachometer) are not functioning. > I've done this because MP has not put out a '97 hipo PCM and > I'd like to achieve a 1/4 mi. e.t. goal that I have in mind. > > Analysis from FSMs: > The '96 Dakota's gauges receive signals either from the PCM > or directly from the sensors. The '97 Dakota's panel gauges > receive signals via the CCD bus from the Central Timer Module > which, in turn, receives signals via the CCD bus from the PCM. > These signals come from two pinouts in the PCM (CCD+ and CCD- > pinouts). > > Conclusion: > The Central Timer Module is not receiving any signals because > the '96 did not use a CCD bus system. > > Question: > Would the following idea be a possible/simple solution? > Use the datalink connector (the one in which a diagnostic > tool is connected) and route the above-mentioned signals > (assuming that they are there) to the Central Timer Module? > > Any comments or other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > Yes, some could be on bus if not orginating from PCM. Do you have any smart sensors that directly connect to bus? If not you could rehook up the 97 PCM and just use the bus data from sensor inputs. Alex ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #230 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".