DIY_EFI Digest Saturday, April 24 1999 Volume 04 : Number 242 In this issue: Mercedes fuel pumps N-body help needed RE: Alternative engines Re: Mercedes fuel pumps Never been to an aviation museum 1908 rotary airplane engines RE: Alternative engines Re: 1908 rotary airplane engines Intro.... questions & thoughts WTB: Motronic Boxes for BMW Motorcycle/Audi Re: Alternative engines 730edit program Re: O2 sensor idea [Off topic] ABS flush [Off topic] ABS & synthetic brake fluid Re: O2 sensor idea RE: 730edit program Re: Mercedes fuel pumps Re: Never been to an aviation museum Re: Alternative engines Re: [Off topic] ABS & synthetic brake fluid Re: Never been to an aviation museum Re: Alternative engines Re: WTB: Motronic Boxes for BMW Motorcycle/Audi Re: Frederic's radiator cooled intercooler. Re: N-body help needed RE: Alternative engines Re: 730edit program 747 tables See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 21:47:46 +1200 From: Mike Morrin Subject: Mercedes fuel pumps I was in at a local shop today, and they had a 1990 Merc 560SE (or some such model) on the hoist, with fuel spewing out of one of the fuel pumps (everything switched off). The car has two standard looking Bosch pumps, but they are plumbed in series, so that the outlet of one pump goes to the inlet of the other. In this case the crimped join in the case of the second pump had apparently burst. The car had probably sat for a few weeks before the fault happened (stuck pressure regulator?) So why put two standard pumps in series? Is the aluminium body of the pump really rated to take the outlet pressure of the other pump? Anyone else seen a failure like this? regards, Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:27:12 -0400 From: Doug Mansfield Subject: N-body help needed I am working on a 92 GM Pontiac Grand Am with the 3.3L V-6 (auto). It has developed a miss. I found and replaced a bad ignition coil and plug wires, but the problem continues. This is a DIS? system. Three coils (wasted spark). I replaced one coil after finding the secondary windings were open. But cylinder #4 (from that replaced coil) still has a miss. I scanned the web and noticed rough idle and ignition misses seem to be common with this car. Where should I go from here? There has never been an engine light (no stored codes). With this being a common problem, I though this is the place to ask. Thanks for any help. Doug mansfield@xxx.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 06:19:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Squash Subject: RE: Alternative engines I know that many of the newest tanks use a rotary diesel. Andy - --- Roger Heflin wrote: > > The M1 tanks use turbins for power, and they are > quite loud, but I > have been told that they are quieter that the > diesels the previous > generation used at full bore. I don't know how they > made them work > in a tank and solved these problems. > > Roger > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:34:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Martin Easterbrook Subject: Re: Mercedes fuel pumps Mike, I've done this type of thing in work with some Porsche 911 Turbo fuel pumps as a cheap way to get 20bar fuel pressure for some fuel injector tests. I burst tested a pump first (in a safety cell) to check if it would be safe. The burst pressure was 35bar. I know of several people running series electric pumps on race cars to get high fuel pressure (= better fuel atomisation from the injectors) but I have never heard of a setup like this on a road car, as most road cars only run 2.5 to 3 bar anyway. I could see a point in connecting them in parallel, particularly for a high capacity engine that needed a lot of flow. I think the failure you saw is most likely to have been caused by a faulty regulator or a blockage in the regulator reflow line. Martin Mike Morrin wrote: > > I was in at a local shop today, and they had a 1990 Merc 560SE (or some > such model) on the hoist, with fuel spewing out of one of the fuel pumps > (everything switched off). > > The car has two standard looking Bosch pumps, but they are plumbed in > series, so that the outlet of one pump goes to the inlet of the other. In > this case the crimped join in the case of the second pump had apparently > burst. > > The car had probably sat for a few weeks before the fault happened (stuck > pressure regulator?) > > So why put two standard pumps in series? > > Is the aluminium body of the pump really rated to take the outlet pressure > of the other pump? > > Anyone else seen a failure like this? > > regards, > Mike > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @xxx.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:51:16 -0400 From: Teller.John@xxx.com Subject: Never been to an aviation museum When you do get to an aviation museum, take a look at one of those WWII German Daimler-Benz DB603 engines (I think they installed them in the BF109G). Dual superchargers, 12 Cylinder inverted V, fuel injected. Nifty looking monsters. >Um, er, never been to an aviation museum either. However, I did visit >Holman Moody's with the guys in Raleigh, and have visited the Intrepid in >NYC several times. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:00:57 -0400 From: Teller.John@xxx.com Subject: 1908 rotary airplane engines That's what was called a rotary engine. The engine itself was used as a giant flywheel as they were developed in the days before torque converters and such. This made the the planes really challenging to fly. Fighters like the Sopwith Camel had a propensity to roll on takeoff in the hands of an inexperienced pilot and due to the gyrosopic action of the spinning engine, reacted strangely to the stick. For cooling, the cylinders were exposed to the airstream (just like those on later radial engines). >Everyone should visit Rheinbeck Aerodrome once in there >lives. Real airshows put on with pre WW-I airplanes. I saw >them fly a 1908 plane with a Radial engine. The crankshaft >bolted to the plane. The propellor was attached to the >engine crankcase. The whole engine spun around for cooling!! >Each cylinder had an exhaust pipe about 10" long with no >mufflers. Wildest thing I ever saw or heard. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:42:00 -0600 From: "M. Jones" Subject: RE: Alternative engines Use a two-spool machine, like a PT-6. The gas producer screams along at 20,000-30,000 rpms, while the power turbine spins at a leisurely 6,000 or something. For automotive use, hydrostatic drive from there. Most turboprop aircraft spin the prop at something less than 2,700 rpms max (geared only), so it's obviously do-able. BUT would you want to? Not for anything other than fun. By way of example, with the industrial gas turbines I'm most familiar with (I manage power plants for a living) the gas producer spins at 11,270 rpms, the power turbine at 8550 rpms and is then geared to 1800 rpm generator speed. Works great, with excellent efficiency at full load (especially in cogeneration service with a steam turbine in service). Heat rate drops like a rock at anything below 90% load. Fully 67% of the energy produced by a gas turbine goes solely to keep itself sustained and internally cooled. Most gas turbines will not self-sustain below 60% gas producer speed. Gas turbines may find use in a hybrid scenario -- start and run at max tilt to charge a battery bank or flywheel, then off when not needed. But I strongly doubt you'll ever see gas turbines used directly in automotive applications. Mike Jones - ---------- From: William T Wilson[SMTP:fluffy@xxx.org] Reply To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 6:43 PM To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu' Subject: RE: Alternative engines On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Kurek, Larry wrote: > Huh? How does it accelerate if it has no torque? Maybe they just > didn't gear it correctly. Maybe a CVT type of transmission is needed > to keep the rpm up and multiply the torque accordingly. With > electronic controls, it would be Maybe. Don't most turbines spin something like 30,000 RPM? It's a lot. And they don't really produce any torque at all until they get up to a substantial portion of that. You'd need a 20:1 final drive ratio to get "normal" performance, so that won't do. What I would recommend is a reduction before you feed into the transmission. Before the clutch, even. I wouldn't trust most transmissions to take that much RPM on the input. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:43:38 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: 1908 rotary airplane engines > That's what was called a rotary engine. The engine itself was used as a giant > flywheel as they were developed in the days before torque converters and such. Here's the solution to Dave's mid-engined toronado tranny thing. Rotary engine in the back, output shaft facing down to a clutch to the diff, which also faces up :) bet the header fangling would be pretty interesting :) > and due to the gyrosopic action of the spinning engine, reacted strangely to the Sopwirths are a bi-plane, right? So they didn't have Aerelons (I know I lobotomized that spelling) and adjustment wing pieces like that. - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:04:27 -0700 From: "Howard Wilkinson" Subject: Intro.... questions & thoughts Hi: I briefly participated on this list a couple of years ago..... I'm not really in the same league as you electrical wizzards so a lot of the circuitry and stuff is way over my head. I've recently become interested in simply building FI systems based on factory parts which is without a doubt the simplest program for such people as myself. Some inexpensive ECUs are already out there and some documentation is available on some of them such as the unit used in the GM Geo series cars. These units are being used with different injectors and fine tuning of fuel pressures to operate a wide range of engines. None of this is I'm sure news to anybody on this list. I am specifically interested in information on the systems used on snowmobile engines with a view toward adapting them to the Rotax aviation engines using some of the same principles. The fellow who has done most of the work on the Geo ECU conversions (recently deceased) claimed that this ECU would not work dependably on small engines due to the poor quality of the power produced.... voltages that were inconsistent, etc.... nothing that couldn't be overcome by the use of a battery. However it makes more sense in my opinion to work with an ECU and the various parts designed for use in this environment. If anybody could steer me in a good direction to get started on this sort of project it would be greatly appreciated. <><><><><><><><><><><> Thoughts on programming DIY EFI systems: Over the past year or two I've given a lot of thought to your DIY EFI projects and the programming of the ECUs. I've reached some conclusions in my own mind which I will relate here. 1: Fuel flow in general is proportional to airflow, thus a MAF based system should be the prefered form. This is born out at least to my mind by the Bosh system used in the VW Rabbit which is a totally mechanical system based on a mechanical MAF sensor and modulated only by engine temp which counteracts the motion of the mechanical MAF sensor. This system works very well and dependably and produces good power and good economy. 2: Most EFI systems are batch fired.... thus injector firing rate is irrelevant unless it goes below engine RPM 3: Due to the above it should be possible to work with a fixed injector firing rate, or one with only a couple of steps. This reduces the number of variables in the program. 4: Thus one should be able to operate an EFI system based on MAF modulated only by ECT and atmospheric pressure MAP which could modify the MAF signal appropriately. This would allow the use of a single simple lookup table which would only contain pulse width figures related to MAF data. It is not really unrealistic that one could modulate fuel pressure directly based on ECT and MAP so that a very simple program could be used. Perhaps this is a bit simple minded, but experience has shown me that if something is simple it is more likely to get done. 5: A properly designed system should allow a self programming mode in which feedback from the OS would modify the lookup table as required to fine tune itself, also a simple user lean/rich shift button could contribute significantly to initial programming. Ideally flash memory or something similar would carry the actual program information so that it could easily be modified, though a EEPROM should be available to reload the original program. With the above strategy the developer could begin with a simple program and use the self programming mode to add layers of complexity as needed. In fact if one used the right programming strategy it would only be necessary to get the engine running at idle after which the envelope could be expanded by feedback which could fill in the lookup table. Your lookup table begins with a single pulse width. When the airflow increases the feedback loop detects a lean condition and changes the value incrementally until correct mixture is achieved. At some point the firing rate may need to increase. You set that point and self program up to that point. At that point you halve the value in the table and continue on...... Atmospheric pressure should be a linear effect so that a simple mathematical formula applied to the MAF value should be able to correct for elevation, or it could operate on the lookup table value prior to being used. ECT effect may not be so simple, but is probably pretty close. <><><><><><><><><><><><><> The above are just some thoughts.... I suspect most people are working on timed injection these days....something I consider unnecessary. I welcome any comments on the above thoughts. I believe I could handle the programming of an ECU though the building of a DIY system is beyond the scope of my abilities.... except perhaps to hang pieces together. The matter of crafting a program with all the ins and outs really doesn't look like an insurmountable obstacle to me. It does however boggle my mind to think that anybody could take ROM code and reverse engineer and modify the program without source code..... Wow! ..... I know it's been done. H.W. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:30:29 -0700 From: "Buchholz, Steven" Subject: WTB: Motronic Boxes for BMW Motorcycle/Audi In order to update the Motronic system in my vehicles I am looking to buy stock boxes which I can use to house the new circuitry without having to modify mounting and wiring harnessing. As such, I am looking for non-functional boxes that include the I/O connector. Specifically I am looking for boxes for a 16v 1000/1100cc 4cylinder BMW motorcycle (K1000, K1100) and a 3.6liter Audi V8 engine (code PT) ... but I think even a box for the 4.2liter ABH(?) is compatible. To date the only sources I've found are for functioning boxes ... but I'd rather not have to pay the price of a working one as I am not likely to use much of the old circuitry, and I doubt that I could reclaim much of the value of the parts I remove. Thanks very much for the help! Steve Buchholz San Jose, CA (USA) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:17:05 -0400 From: "Joe Piche" Subject: Re: Alternative engines > Maybe. Don't most turbines spin something like 30,000 RPM? It's a lot. > And they don't really produce any torque at all until they get up to a > substantial portion of that. You'd need a 20:1 final drive ratio to get > "normal" performance, so that won't do. What I would recommend is a > reduction before you feed into the transmission. Before the clutch, even. > I wouldn't trust most transmissions to take that much RPM on the input. Using a standard jet engine is out of the question. Using a turboshaft engine is relativaly easy. Something like the PT-6 (variations on the engine produce 500 to over 1000 hp), with a low output speed from the reduction gear box. The allison 250, 400+ hp, has an output speed of 6000 rpm. As for exhaust size, these engines don't need very large exhaust. Diesel truck sized. The most efficient way to run a turbine in a normal vehicle, would be to have the turbine at a constant speed, and use it to drive a hydralic pump with variable output, or an electric generator. Problems with turbines. Parts cost a fortune, and once a part like a turbine, or a compressors become time-expired, they tend to fly apart like a grenade. As well, turbine engines are fragile things. Doesn't take much to completely destroy a compressor (especially axial compressors). Small rock, dirt, etc. Just my 2 cents. Joe (I'm a AME (aircraft maintenance engineer). I just completed 4 courses on jet and turboshaft engines) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:16:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Squash Subject: 730edit program I've begun work on the 730 AUJP editor. If you would like a copy of the VERY immature version, e-mail me. I'll be posting updates on a website soon. I only have the spark table section complete at this time. I should have all the VE and the high-end spark done this weekend. As for ALL of the rest of the switches and tables, i plan on adding them all over the next week or 2. The biggest challenge for me is converting the data to something readable (i.e. 39H to 20 degrees advance). See ya Andy _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:23:57 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: O2 sensor idea Anybody know a URL for these folks?. I can't find one. Sneezy > >The Powertrain Electronics site is an Lambda Pro which appears to be > >another clone of the NTK. Also has loggerout of 0-5 volts and a 0-1 > >output to feed to production ecm but again no mention of adustable > >setpoint. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:56:16 -0500 From: Mike Turner Subject: [Off topic] ABS flush I want to flush the brake lines on an 86 corvette. The ABS unit appears to tee off the brake line instead of a pass-thru. Is this correct? If so, is there a bleed valve on the ABS? If not, why is there a tee in the brake line? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:59:53 -0500 From: Mike Turner Subject: [Off topic] ABS & synthetic brake fluid All my rowdy friends tell me not to use synthetic brake fluid in an 86 ABS corvette (autocross car). Can anyone tell me why since the bottle say ok for ABS? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:34:23 -0700 From: "Walter Sherwin" Subject: Re: O2 sensor idea Bruce, go here, and you will find "Powertain Electronics" http://www.powertrain.net/ . The chap you will be conversing with is Dave. He is a heck of a nice/helpful guy. Walt. > >Anybody know a URL for these folks?. >I can't find one. >Sneezy > >> >The Powertrain Electronics site is an Lambda Pro which appears to be >> >another clone of the NTK. Also has loggerout of 0-5 volts and a 0-1 >> >output to feed to production ecm but again no mention of adustable >> >setpoint. > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:59:20 -0600 From: Marc Piccioni Subject: RE: 730edit program Yes Please, I can wait for the VE and spark tables to be completed. - ---------- From: Squash[SMTP:realsquash@xxx.com] Sent: April 23, 1999 6:16 AM To: diy efi Subject: 730edit program I've begun work on the 730 AUJP editor. If you would like a copy of the VERY immature version, e-mail me. I'll be posting updates on a website soon. I only have the spark table section complete at this time. I should have all the VE and the high-end spark done this weekend. As for ALL of the rest of the switches and tables, i plan on adding them all over the next week or 2. The biggest challenge for me is converting the data to something readable (i.e. 39H to 20 degrees advance). See ya Andy _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @xxx.com begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(CH``0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`& !```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&$`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S M,BYE;F``,P`0`` M`"(```!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S,BYE;F5]E9FE 969I,S,R+F5N9RYO M:&EO+7-T871E+F5D=2<``@$+, $````G````4TU44#I$25E?149)0$5&23,S M,BY%3D`!X,`0````4```!33510```` M`!X`'PP!````& ```&UP:6-C:6]N:4!A='1C86YA9&$N;F5T``,`!A")$BAM M`P`'$%@"```>``@0`0```&4```!915-03$5!4T4L24-!3E=!251&3U)42$56 M14%.1%-005)+5$%"3$535$]"14-/35!,151%1"TM+2TM+2TM+2U&4D]-.E-1 M54%32%--5% Z4D5!3%-154%32$!904A/3T-/35-%``````(!"1 !````9@,` M`&(#``!)!@``3%I&=?5(`!7_``H!#P(5`J@%ZP*#`% "\@D"`&-H"L!S970R M-P8`!L,"@S(#Q0(`<')"<1'B?,C4U`H '"H$-L0M@;F1H@#8!_P_&=U'9$%L!\P`B >,SG1 M\12P54I0-4 Z$06P(+TP268@>0A@/F%U;*L>T"(`:QY@82 1<#4PQF]!(!Y$ M4ED@!W `P%YT"' >8#W@$:!I`B LN0J%92T`P ,1!X N'5#-/X"L@]FY +CZQ;#4P$8 ]X1Y" M_Q[Y'N D@40Q(!<>H 5 'D#_! `*A490150>X"L00:))DQ\'0 ,@'DD>0DPP M9V@M]PGP'M4*A60"($G"! !'86YE0@`>P""]000@'@)!?$Q,0I87H!/ 0I8# MX73_$7 'D4[3'V,=(#5V"U$#H%U'(F0U$$9Q'D%M3A-O]T/Q'C-0P'@%0%%" M/K %P*HR(+U4'E%B3V!G4]+_$7%%P GP6J =\P> 0U $(/T%H&Y#\493'D)& MP4(P'\#_"H5'\ > 3"%&<2I!1L!*HH@H:2Y%83,Y2!^RGP'0-0`^( G15/%D M=@xxx.LQ?9(]EGV:O9P-5"H5$']!905%9*P(A M^C\*A4<1P$$R!< #4&(Q7RKH5L)3P53Q!4!H`D!PZ#HO+T4"+BKW.LP[/WLC M1Q5B,A*P)$8*A1;!``%Q@ ```P`0$ `````#`!$0`````$ `!S @RX4NY8V^ C`4 `"# @xxx.B `````M6@` ` end ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 08:04:22 +0800 From: "WILMAN" Subject: Re: Mercedes fuel pumps - ---------- > From: Martin Easterbrook > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: Mercedes fuel pumps > Date: Friday, April 23, 1999 10:34 PM > I think the Mercedes runs the Bosch KE-Jetronic system which operates at a much higher fuel pressure. > Mike, > > I've done this type of thing in work with some Porsche 911 Turbo fuel > pumps as a cheap way to get 20bar fuel pressure for some fuel injector > tests. > > I burst tested a pump first (in a safety cell) to check if it would be > safe. The burst pressure was 35bar. > > I know of several people running series electric pumps on race cars to > get high fuel pressure (= better fuel atomisation from the injectors) > but I have never heard of a setup like this on a road car, as most > road cars only run 2.5 to 3 bar anyway. > > I could see a point in connecting them in parallel, particularly for a > high capacity engine that needed a lot of flow. > > I think the failure you saw is most likely to have been caused by a > faulty regulator or a blockage in the regulator reflow line. > > Martin > > > > Mike Morrin wrote: > > > > I was in at a local shop today, and they had a 1990 Merc 560SE (or > some > > such model) on the hoist, with fuel spewing out of one of the fuel > pumps > > (everything switched off). > > > > The car has two standard looking Bosch pumps, but they are plumbed in > > series, so that the outlet of one pump goes to the inlet of the > other. In > > this case the crimped join in the case of the second pump had > apparently > > burst. > > > > The car had probably sat for a few weeks before the fault happened > (stuck > > pressure regulator?) > > > > So why put two standard pumps in series? > > > > Is the aluminium body of the pump really rated to take the outlet > pressure > > of the other pump? > > > > Anyone else seen a failure like this? > > > > regards, > > Mike > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @xxx.uk > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:36:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Davies Subject: Re: Never been to an aviation museum On Fri, 23 Apr 1999 Teller.John@xxx.com wrote: > When you do get to an aviation museum, take a look at one of those WWII German > Daimler-Benz DB603 engines (I think they installed them in the BF109G). Dual > superchargers, 12 Cylinder inverted V, fuel injected. Nifty looking monsters. > > There were many others. The Brits [!] were among the best as far as wringing the max HP per litre from aircraft engines. Check out the 60, 70 and 100 series 2 stage, 2 speed supercharged Merlins that put out a lot more power from a lot less cubes the the DBs [not knocking the DBs, for they had many interesting features like a variable speed supercharger, direct injection into the cylinder, NOx injection etc] Then there was Napiers and their H-12s and H-24 sleeve valve engines. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 22:36:04 -0400 From: Raymond C Drouillard Subject: Re: Alternative engines On Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:43:43 -0400 (EDT) William T Wilson writes: >On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Kurek, Larry wrote: > >> Huh? How does it accelerate if it has no torque? Maybe they just >> didn't gear it correctly. Maybe a CVT type of transmission is needed >> to keep the rpm up and multiply the torque accordingly. With >> electronic controls, it would be > >Maybe. Don't most turbines spin something like 30,000 RPM? It's a lot. >And they don't really produce any torque at all until they get up to a >substantial portion of that. You'd need a 20:1 final drive ratio to get >"normal" performance, so that won't do. What I would recommend is a >reduction before you feed into the transmission. Before the clutch, even. >I wouldn't trust most transmissions to take that much RPM on the >input. > On the other hand, you could use a really small automotive transmission to handle the small amount of torque. You would have to make sure that the bearings are rated for high speeds and the gears are balanced, but the weight savings alone would be great. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 20:41:08 -0500 From: "G. Scott Ponton" Subject: Re: [Off topic] ABS & synthetic brake fluid Mike, When the ABS system goes to work it basically pumps the pedal very rapidly which can cause the fluid to aerate. Silicone fluid aerates fairly easily. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:58:38 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Never been to an aviation museum >On Fri, 23 Apr 1999 Teller.John@xxx.com wrote: > >> When you do get to an aviation museum, take a look at one of those WWII >>German >> Daimler-Benz DB603 engines (I think they installed them in the BF109G). Dual >> superchargers, 12 Cylinder inverted V, fuel injected. Nifty looking >>monsters. >> >> >There were many others. The Brits [!] were among the best as far as >wringing the max HP per litre from aircraft engines. Check out the 60, 70 >and 100 series 2 stage, 2 speed supercharged Merlins But the Griffon was the one! Greg that put out a lot >more power from a lot less cubes the the DBs [not knocking the DBs, for >they had many interesting features like a variable speed supercharger, >direct injection into the cylinder, NOx injection etc] Then there was >Napiers and their H-12s and H-24 sleeve valve engines. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:31:17 -0700 From: "Howard Wilkinson" Subject: Re: Alternative engines Joe: you seem to be somewhat well versed in the matter of turbine engines. I'm curious about one thing here. Several folks in the experimental aviation community have tried to use APU engines for power in light aircraft and had poor luck..... engine troubles. I have a theory on this. From what little I can gather about it, and I've not communicated directly with any of these people, it appears that they are attempting to control turbine speed. It looks to me like these turbines are intended to wind up to governor speed and operate at constant speed, and that they must have some sort of governor system to control RPM as load varies as it must in a generator application. My thinking is that the correct way to use one of these is to have a controllable prop and operate at a constant RPM.... forget about controlling RPM.... let the system operate as it was originally intended and use the stock fuel control / governor system. I strongly suspect that the problems people have had originated from changing RPM. Any comments on this?? H.W. - -----Original Message----- From: Joe Piche To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Date: Friday, April 23, 1999 2:25 PM Subject: Re: Alternative engines >> Maybe. Don't most turbines spin something like 30,000 RPM? It's a lot. >> And they don't really produce any torque at all until they get up to a >> substantial portion of that. You'd need a 20:1 final drive ratio to get >> "normal" performance, so that won't do. What I would recommend is a >> reduction before you feed into the transmission. Before the clutch, even. >> I wouldn't trust most transmissions to take that much RPM on the input. > >Using a standard jet engine is out of the question. Using a turboshaft >engine is relativaly easy. Something like the PT-6 (variations on >the engine produce 500 to over 1000 hp), with a low output speed from >the reduction gear box. > >The allison 250, 400+ hp, has an output speed of 6000 rpm. > >As for exhaust size, these engines don't need very large exhaust. Diesel >truck sized. > >The most efficient way to run a turbine in a normal vehicle, would be >to have the turbine at a constant speed, and use it to drive a >hydralic pump with variable output, or an electric generator. > >Problems with turbines. Parts cost a fortune, and once a part like a >turbine, or a compressors become time-expired, they tend to fly apart >like a grenade. > >As well, turbine engines are fragile things. Doesn't take much to >completely destroy a compressor (especially axial compressors). Small >rock, dirt, etc. > >Just my 2 cents. > >Joe >(I'm a AME (aircraft maintenance engineer). I just completed 4 courses >on jet and turboshaft engines) > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 22:38:48 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe Subject: Re: WTB: Motronic Boxes for BMW Motorcycle/Audi If you find any Weber-Marelli ECU's, I'll take 'em. Tom S Buchholz, Steven wrote: > In order to update the Motronic system in my vehicles I am looking to buy > stock boxes which I can use to house the new circuitry without having to > modify mounting and wiring harnessing. As such, I am looking for > non-functional boxes that include the I/O connector. Specifically I am > looking for boxes for a 16v 1000/1100cc 4cylinder BMW motorcycle (K1000, > K1100) and a 3.6liter Audi V8 engine (code PT) ... but I think even a box > for the 4.2liter ABH(?) is compatible. > > To date the only sources I've found are for functioning boxes ... but I'd > rather not have to pay the price of a working one as I am not likely to use > much of the old circuitry, and I doubt that I could reclaim much of the > value of the parts I remove. > > Thanks very much for the help! > Steve Buchholz > San Jose, CA (USA) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 21:38:22 -0700 From: "H. J. Zivnak" Subject: Re: Frederic's radiator cooled intercooler. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederic Breitwieser To: Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 11:16 AM Subject: Re: Frederic's radiator cooled intercooler. > > You say you sourced your IC water at the outlet of the radiator. How did > > you hook up the return? > > > > tapping the bottom radiator hose partially (two > "Y"' facing each other) resulted in no flow at all, because the plenum > intercooler is mounted at the top of the engine. > The final version was a "Y" at both radiator inlet/outlet ports, > with a 120V pump on the cold side pumping up the hose to the intercooler, to a > peterson 3 gallon swirl tank, then back into the radiator directly via another > "Y". I don't know if this is ideal or not, but it did work at least in a basic > sense. The next step is to figure out how to remove the 120V pump, and use > either an externally mounted belt driven pump, or preferably, the water pump. > Would it make sense to put an orifice, with a tap on each side for the intercooler, between the radiator outlet and the water pump? The orifice would produce a pressure drop to move a portion of the water through the intercooler without the use of an external pump. If your radiator return hose was, for instance, 2" i.d. a 1.875" orifice might be a good starting point . HTH. Regards, Joe ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 00:53:47 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: N-body help needed Doug Mansfield wrote: > > I am working on a 92 GM Pontiac Grand Am with the 3.3L V-6 (auto). It has > developed a miss. I found and replaced a bad ignition coil and plug wires, > but the problem continues. > > This is a DIS? system. Three coils (wasted spark). I replaced one coil > after finding the secondary windings were open. But cylinder #4 (from that > replaced coil) still has a miss. I scanned the web and noticed rough idle > and ignition misses seem to be common with this car. Where should I go > from here? There has never been an engine light (no stored codes). > > With this being a common problem, I though this is the place to ask. > > Thanks for any help. > > Doug > mansfield@xxx.edu Use an old spark plug opened up to .1" gap to test for spark at each coil wire. If all cylinders have spark, try unplugging one injector at a time then reconnecting to locate cylinder. Remove the plug for that cylinder. If it's dry, likely not getting fuel (but could be intake valve staying closed). If wet, could be bad plug or mechanical problem. Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 05:58:18 GMT From: "The Punisher" Subject: RE: Alternative engines >The M1 tanks use turbins for power, and they are quite loud, but I >have been told that they are quieter that the diesels the previous >generation used at full bore. I don't know how they made them work >in a tank and solved these problems. > > Roger > What you would want I believe is a "Turboshaft" type turbine. Most modern turbines use two or more compressor/turbine shaft's running at different speeds. This is done with the the center shaft being solid and having bearings around it and the next shaft is hollow and rides around the first shaft. Different stages in the compressor and turbine sections work more efficently at different RPM's. Turboshaft engines, like a turboprop airplane(C-130, or most commuter aircraft),turboshaft helicopters (huey,apachee,hughes500,jetranger ect....)and stationary engines (GE frame 5,6 ect) all have a turbine blade which drives a shaft to a gearbox. This turbine which powers the shaft outside the jet has a blade pitch and diameter which causes it to be one of the slowest turning parts in the engine (but it still has a very high speed). A turboprop engine would work out great, because most propellers spin alot slower than a high performance v8 automotive engine. If I remember right it is common to use small 4 cylinder car engines in homebuilt aircraft and using a REDUCING gearbox or belt drive to lower prop speed. use a pair of turbo400 transmissions coupled end to end (makes a 5 speed) and use a high stall converter. still would not be a practical driver, but it would kick some butt at the drags! _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 06:13:55 GMT From: "The Punisher" Subject: Re: 730edit program > >I've begun work on the 730 AUJP editor. > >If you would like a copy of the VERY immature version, >e-mail me. I'll be posting updates on a website soon. > > I would love to look at it. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 06:32:39 GMT From: "The Punisher" Subject: 747 tables A friend of mine who is an incredible programmer, has agreed to write an editor for 747's (maby others later). I sent him the tuning tips and programming 101 files but the tables and switches listed in these files seem VERY incomplete. If anybody has found more tables and such please send me whatever you have. He will include EVRYTHING in the editor that we can get the memory locations and descriptions for. He says the program will have graphs and the whole nine yards! It will only take a few hours for him to write as soon as he gets time from the government software he is currently working on. Any info will help. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #242 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".