DIY_EFI Digest Sunday, May 2 1999 Volume 04 : Number 256 In this issue: Cam regrinds feasible? (roller regrind) Re: atomization enhancement Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? Re: Cam regrinds feasible? (roller regrind) Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? Re: Cam regrinds feasible? (roller regrind) Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? Re: Fuel injection plugs Re: MC6840 timer specs. Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? Re: Fuel injection plugs Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? Re: John Deere Re: Flame - Not Re: Cam regrinds feasible? (roller regrind) Espen's Reed Valves Re: Fuel injection plugs Re: Cam regrinds feasible? (roller regrind) Re: atomization enhancement Re: Flame - Not Re: atomization enhancement radiators? Re: Cam regrinds feasible? (roller regrind) Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? RE: 1227749 Re: Flame - Not Re: Fuel injection plugs Re: atomization enhancement Re: Flame - Not RE: Fuel Pump Check Valve... Re: Espen's Reed Valves See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 10:49:12 -0700 From: Ross Corrigan Subject: Cam regrinds feasible? (roller regrind) well here's the last of my q's that have gone unresolved off other resources.... Local super comp dragster racing team has been selling of some unused new stuff in the local penny ads. They have one custom Bruce Crower ground roller cam, 650 lift, 300 duration w/ 105 centre left brand new that's too conservative for their efforts of late for $100CD. They sold a 2nd one same specs to a 'vette owner who had it reground to 575 lift, 112 lobe centres. I'll check out the regrind price from the local grind guru's "Shadbolt" (any horror stories on them? I've only heard good so far), but at their price I should be able to get a reground roller for 30% or so below new and to my own custom specs, assuming their's room in this monster for a 214/218 at 114 or 115 or similar (or v. open to reccomendations....). I know I'd need the Bronze distr. gear for $40CD or so as well. Just checking this out. For their cost I might just pick it up and decide later as I don't think resale 'netwise would be hard to break even. thanks again Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada '80 327ZX IZCC#255, Edmonton Z-car Club #44, British Columbia ZCR Life's a journey, not a destination.. Enjoy the pitstops and maximize the straights mailto:zxv@xxx.ca *New ICQ # 11549358 http://home.iSTAR.ca/~zxv/index.shtml http://207.212.212.139/~corrigan/gearheads/pics/wheels/sirbg.jpg where a Z belongs ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 13:51:16 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: atomization enhancement > > How does the increased pressure affect control of the pulsewidth, if > >at all? > >James Ballenger > Flow through an injector per unit time will vary directly with the square > root of the pressure across it. "Pressure across it" means the arithmetic > difference between the gauge pressure in the fuel rail and the gauge > pressure in the manifold at any given condition. > At very short pulse widths, the higher pressure will affect the opening and > closing characteristics of the injector enough that things will not be > quite this simple. Speaking specifically of "on" times of less than 2 msec. most all injectors get "erratic", in their flow rates. Pintle are the least, disc being worst. This was done at just 3 bar test pressures, so I'd imagine at higher PSI they would be even worse. Some time ago Greg H rattled on about rising rate regulators, and turn down ratios, or some such stuff over my head, but after seeing the pix off Mike Pitts set up using one of Carl S's riasing rate regulators, looks like the road to go, IMHO.. I'm still really curious about seeing some details about how an injector acts with a min "off" time. This 2 msec might apply at both ends of the scale. So just running a step from, 2 msec to 100% duty cycle might be the answer. Or just hoping for the best and program thru the jump, and let the injector do as it will.. Happy > > Kinsler FI has done a bunch of work with running injectors at high pressures. > Regards, Greg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 13:38:29 +0100 From: steve ravet Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? The JTR S-10 book shows 2 Everco 5/8" heater hose fittings, one with a built-in restriction (3/8"). Part #H2894. They also list a similar GM part, #10039163, used on some 4cyl S-10s, to restrict flow. I am pretty sure there is an in-line restrictor used on some Corvettes, but I can't find in in JTR book. > > I know this is NC but I"ve exhausted my related Nissan/Datsun list w/ no > > good info. > > A few of us have sb chevy V8's and several have experienced heater core > > problems d/2 higher/greater coolant flows/pressure (I don't know > > specifically), they've replaced w/ brand new units and halfway thru > winding > > out and leaving another NSX (their ride, mine wouldn't do that;^) their > > heater core will fail again. > > They only discussed ways to just bypass the heater core which is simple > but > > I live in the often rainy pacific nw so need heat occassionally throughout > > the year and would prefer some sort of pressure reducer mini-manifold but > > I"m not familiar w/ what hardwar is out their or the simplest way to solve > > this. I'm not sure if it's simply a matter of too much flow or pressure > or > > combo of both that fails them. Mine's still OK but I haven't ran it very > > hard yet and want to preempt a painful heater core R&R etc. > > Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada - -- Steve Ravet ARM, INC steve.ravet@xxx.com www.arm.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 12:27:28 -0700 From: Sandy Subject: Re: Cam regrinds feasible? (roller regrind) You can do some regrinding to rollers, I did, but it was almost not worth it. The problem that I was told is that if you do too much you need to have it re-heatreated, and then it typically gets out of wack in terms of straightness or so he said. They can take some off and change the profile a bit, but you need to check with a grinder that can do it to see how much and actually what it will cost. In the long run, more problems then it's worth, just get the grind you want and save the exercise. Sandy At 10:49 AM 5/1/99 -0700, you wrote: >well here's the last of my q's that have gone unresolved off other >resources.... > >Local super comp dragster racing team has been selling of some unused new >stuff in the local penny ads. They have one custom Bruce Crower ground >roller cam, 650 lift, 300 duration w/ 105 centre left brand new that's too >conservative for their efforts of late for $100CD. They sold a 2nd one >same specs to a 'vette owner who had it reground to 575 lift, 112 lobe centres. > >I'll check out the regrind price from the local grind guru's "Shadbolt" >(any horror stories on them? I've only heard good so far), but at their >price I should be able to get a reground roller for 30% or so below new and >to my own custom specs, assuming their's room in this monster for a 214/218 >at 114 or 115 or similar (or v. open to reccomendations....). I know I'd >need the Bronze distr. gear for $40CD or so as well. > >Just checking this out. For their cost I might just pick it up and decide >later as I don't think resale 'netwise would be hard to break even. > >thanks again > >Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada > > '80 327ZX IZCC#255, Edmonton Z-car Club #44, British Columbia ZCR >Life's a journey, not a destination.. Enjoy the pitstops and maximize the >straights > >mailto:zxv@xxx.ca *New ICQ # 11549358 >http://home.iSTAR.ca/~zxv/index.shtml >http://207.212.212.139/~corrigan/gearheads/pics/wheels/sirbg.jpg where a >Z belongs ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 13:21:00 -0700 From: Ross Corrigan Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? At 01:38 PM 5/1/99 +0100, you wrote: >The JTR S-10 book shows 2 Everco 5/8" heater hose fittings, one with a >built-in restriction (3/8"). Part #H2894. They also list a similar GM >part, #10039163, used on some 4cyl S-10s, to restrict flow. > >I am pretty sure there is an in-line restrictor used on some Corvettes, >but I can't find in in JTR book. Thanks for the info so far guys! I have two JTR books (TPI/TBI & ZV8's) but can't afford to buy every one for fun reading. So the above fitting is a pipe thread 'union' w/ an inline restrictor orifice? I suppose I could make one from a piece of aluminum roundstock or any other ideer I suppose. I was curious if the orifice could lead to excessive backpressure behind the restriction? (didn't take a lot of fluid mechanics) ie. should this be setup be like bypassing your heater core but instead of blocking off the heater core circuit completely leaving it open but only w/ a 3/8" supply or similar? Make a small aluminum manifold (like an adjustable fuel pressure regulator) but instead of a regulator just a 3/8's orifice to supply the heater core?? thanks again Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada '80 327ZX IZCC#255, Edmonton Z-car Club #44, British Columbia ZCR Life's a journey, not a destination.. Enjoy the pitstops and maximize the straights mailto:zxv@xxx.ca *New ICQ # 11549358 http://home.iSTAR.ca/~zxv/index.shtml http://207.212.212.139/~corrigan/gearheads/pics/wheels/sirbg.jpg where a Z belongs ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 13:29:26 -0700 From: Ross Corrigan Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? At 01:29 PM 5/1/99 -0400, you wrote: > >What I do is, epoxy the 5/8" heater hose fitting on the manifold shut, and >then cure it at 200dF. Then drill a 5/16" hole in it. That is enough for >heat and defrost, here in Ohio. so you restricted your supply to your heater to 5/16's internally w/ no other visible mods...I like that:-) what kind of epoxy specifically do you use? If you want really good control over the >heater coolant, use a heater valve off a 87 Buick GN/Ttype, it's vacuum >applied, On, type. don't follow this too well, this is an inline valve in the heater supply line? vacuum applied but what triggers the application of the vaccuum? an electric switch? or do you mean at high vaccuum (low rpm's/throttle) it's open and it closes under WOT? off of manifold vaccuum? That would be slick as well. > If when ya do the cam, on the passenger side of the water pump is a hole >in the water pump/block. Tap that out and put a 1/8 pipe plug in, it. Then >drill a 1/16 or 1/8" hole in it. Also, a 1/8" hole in the thermostat. missed this one, better review my coolant circuit schematics in my Haynes manual, I have hole's in my thermostat , Robert Shaw hiflo unit to accomodate my stewart water pump setup. Or do you mean bleed off a line from the thermo/water neck housing of 1/8" supply for the heater and return it into the water pump? > The above is just what works for me. >Bruce Loving these ideas guys! Can't wait to get my car back from the tranny guru to start on one of them. Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada '80 327ZX IZCC#255, Edmonton Z-car Club #44, British Columbia ZCR Life's a journey, not a destination.. Enjoy the pitstops and maximize the straights mailto:zxv@xxx.ca *New ICQ # 11549358 http://home.iSTAR.ca/~zxv/index.shtml http://207.212.212.139/~corrigan/gearheads/pics/wheels/sirbg.jpg where a Z belongs ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 13:38:19 -0700 From: Ross Corrigan Subject: Re: Cam regrinds feasible? (roller regrind) At 12:27 PM 5/1/99 -0700, you wrote: >You can do some regrinding to rollers, I did, but it was almost not worth >it. The problem that I was told is that if you do too much you need to have >it re-heatreated, and then it typically gets out of wack in terms of >straightness or so he said. They can take some off and change the profile >a bit, but you need to check with a grinder that can do it to see how much >and actually what it will cost. In the long run, more problems then it's >worth, just get the grind you want and save the exercise. > >Sandy That's one q I'd been wondering on, can they successfully retreat the 'new' outer core to a suitable hardness while maintaining a more ductile inner core. I guess I'm always trying to figure out a way to get my foot in the door and gradually create the more expensive product w/ less money;^) having a hard time phoning them as they're 'only' a 5 day 9-5 company...hmm that's what we are and I like it;^) Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada '80 327ZX IZCC#255, Edmonton Z-car Club #44, British Columbia ZCR Life's a journey, not a destination.. Enjoy the pitstops and maximize the straights mailto:zxv@xxx.ca *New ICQ # 11549358 http://home.iSTAR.ca/~zxv/index.shtml http://207.212.212.139/~corrigan/gearheads/pics/wheels/sirbg.jpg where a Z belongs ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 17:00:04 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? > >What I do is, epoxy the 5/8" heater hose fitting on the manifold shut, and > >then cure it at 200dF. Then drill a 5/16" hole in it. That is enough for > >heat and defrost, here in Ohio. > so you restricted your supply to your heater to 5/16's internally w/ no > other visible mods...I like that:-) what kind of epoxy specifically do you > use? JB Weld, or about anything gray . > If you want really good control over the > >heater coolant, use a heater valve off a 87 Buick GN/Ttype, it's vacuum > >applied, On, type. > don't follow this too well, this is an inline valve in the heater supply > line? vacuum applied but what triggers the application of the vaccuum? an > electric switch? or do you mean at high vaccuum (low rpm's/throttle) it's > open and it closes under WOT? off of manifold vaccuum? That would be slick > as well. Lots of cars use vacuum motors for defroster, heat etc, just T into that if that's what you have to operate the heater valve. > > If when ya do the cam, on the passenger side of the water pump is a hole > >in the water pump/block. Tap that out and put a 1/8 pipe plug in, it. Then > >drill a 1/16 or 1/8" hole in it. Also, a 1/8" hole in the thermostat. > missed this one, better review my coolant circuit schematics in my Haynes > manual, I have hole's in my thermostat , Robert Shaw hiflo unit to > accomodate my stewart water pump setup. Or do you mean bleed off a line > from the thermo/water neck housing of 1/8" supply for the heater and > return it into the water pump? There is a hole in the block/passenger side behind the water pump (that is about 3/8", that is a water bypass), just tap and plug it, then drill a hole in it to reduce it's size. Period. > > > The above is just what works for me. > >Bruce > > Loving these ideas guys! Can't wait to get my car back from the tranny > guru to start on one of them. > > Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 14:29:28 -0700 From: Aaron Willis Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs At 07:11 AM 5/1/99 -0600, you wrote: >>Aaron: >> Unfortunately I have yet to see a water injection system that I >>like..... > >Stay tuned. > > also up here there are not enough months when water >>injection is practical. > >Stay tuned. > >(Do not adjust your set!) > >Greg > > H.W. > > > The gears in my head turn slowly due the heavy medication they have me on :-) but I have to imagine that if it's too cold for water injection, certainly you must be breathing in cold air as well, which, coupled to an effective air-to-air intercooler, should help stave off detonation. What am I not understanding here? Aaron Willis ICQ #27386985 AOL IM: hemiyota http://surf.to/garage-te51 Garage TE51 International ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 15:05:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Orin Eman Subject: Re: MC6840 timer specs. > Daniel R. Henriksson wrote: > > > > Hi > > I need the specs. on the MC6840 timer IC, i've searched around on the net with no luck, there must be some datasheet pdf's out there... > > > > (Weber Marelli WD48.08 uses one of those 6840's...) > > BR > > Daniel Henriksson > Daniel, > I searched arround also for a data sheet on this part also with out > much luck. It is a pretty old part. Finally found a older Hitachi data > book and got one from there. I also ordered a set from.... can't For those in the Seattle area, Active Electronics in Bellevue have a Hitachi data book with the HD6840 and variations in it. (You can actually buy a 68x40 there at the moment - can't remember what the x was, B probably!) Orin. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 15:06:14 -0700 (PDT) From: thergen@xxx.net Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? I don't know if it's the same one as used on the gn, but take a look at gm part #14044414. It has four ports. Normally, without vacuum applied, is allows coolant to flow through the heater core. With vacuum applied, it bypasses the core and routes the coolant back to the engine. It's usually actuated when the a/c is in the max position. The valve does not seal perfectly, and some coolant does go to the core in closed position. However, I think you could loosen the screw that holds the lever arm onto the rotating part of the valve and just rotate the valve piece 90 degress such that it is "open" (coolant goes through core) under vacuum and "closed" without vacuum. I don't think there was any keying between the lever are and the valve piece that would prevent this (take a look before you buy). Connecting it to manifold vacuum may then make it do what you want. Make sure the valve is installed such that is routes coolant back to the motor when "closed" and doesn't simply cut off the coolant flow. Of course, the restrictors would be cheaper. Tom On Sat, 1 May 1999, Ross Corrigan wrote: > At 01:29 PM 5/1/99 -0400, you wrote: > If you want really good control over the > >heater coolant, use a heater valve off a 87 Buick GN/Ttype, it's vacuum > >applied, On, type. > > don't follow this too well, this is an inline valve in the heater supply > line? vacuum applied but what triggers the application of the vaccuum? an > electric switch? or do you mean at high vaccuum (low rpm's/throttle) it's > open and it closes under WOT? off of manifold vaccuum? That would be slick > as well. > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 00:39:10 +0200 From: "Espen Hilde" Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs > If you change the ratio of the transmission enough to get the RPMs down > in the 1000 and under range, you can lower the power output drastically. > The main caveat is to design the cam profile so that the engine will run > efficiently at that speed. You don't need variable displacement or > variable compression ratio to do this. Variable valve timing will do the > trick - and the technology is already fairly commonplace. Offcourse.......you are right , I have wanted to try a 4 stroke with reed valves in the intake and run a camshaft thats good for top end...... Espen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 18:27:43 +0100 From: steve ravet Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? Ross Corrigan wrote: > > At 01:38 PM 5/1/99 +0100, you wrote: > >The JTR S-10 book shows 2 Everco 5/8" heater hose fittings, one with a > >built-in restriction (3/8"). Part #H2894. They also list a similar GM > >part, #10039163, used on some 4cyl S-10s, to restrict flow. > > > >I am pretty sure there is an in-line restrictor used on some Corvettes, > >but I can't find in in JTR book. > > Thanks for the info so far guys! I have two JTR books (TPI/TBI & ZV8's) > but can't afford to buy every one for fun reading. So the above fitting is > a pipe thread 'union' w/ an inline restrictor orifice? The Everco parts are fittings that screw into your water pump where the heater hose attaches. It's NPT on one end, 5/8" hose barb on the other. Take out the one you have and attach this one. GM part should be similar. The corvette part, if you can find it, goes inline in the hose. Cut the hose, stick it in, put 2 hose clamps on. The S-10 book is a fun read. - --steve - -- Steve Ravet ARM, INC steve.ravet@xxx.com www.arm.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 00:42:56 GMT From: charlesmorris@xxx.com (Charles) Subject: Re: John Deere On Sat, 1 May 1999 02:22:31 -0400, you wrote: > PUT na na na PUT na na PUT PUT PUT na na na na... >Sounds like a John Deere 2cyl tractor. Massive flywheel and long >stroke crank made for similar sounds at idle. >Shannen Actually, all my 2-cyl John Deere's go: PUT PUT na na PUT PUT na na PUT PUT na na. Fires at 0 and 180 degrees, then coasts for 540 degrees (hence the massive flywheel). - -Charles JD 50 JD 420 ;) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 20:52:22 -0400 (EDT) From: William T Wilson Subject: Re: Flame - Not On Sat, 1 May 1999, Raymond C Drouillard wrote: > >of their cars and a number of early street rods. Not only Ford used > >flathead engines though; I've got one in a '55 Jeep, which is an inline > >6-cylinder. > > I believe that they were used with the inline 4 cylinder Jeep engines, > also. Some of the old 4-cylinder Jeeps were flatheads, some were OHV. As far as I know all modern Jeep engines are OHV or OHC. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 18:03:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Davies Subject: Re: Cam regrinds feasible? (roller regrind) On Sat, 1 May 1999, Ross Corrigan wrote: > I'll check out the regrind price from the local grind guru's "Shadbolt" > (any horror stories on them? I've only heard good so far), but at their Havent dealt with them for a while, but they have been around for years and, when I did deal with them they were top notch. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 18:35:28 -0700 From: "Howard Wilkinson" Subject: Espen's Reed Valves Espen: That's one I've never heard..... or even considered...... what a thought.... Has someone been doing that.....Wow the possibilities are fantastic..... With such a setup you could use a centrifugal advanced cam to get variable duration and the reed valves would take care of the blowback problem at the low end...... At least a first thought it seems like a brilliant solution.... wish I'd thought of that one..... I'm going to have to think on that a bit more. It takes care of the intake at least. H.W. > >Offcourse.......you are right , I have wanted to try a 4 stroke with reed >valves >in the intake and run a camshaft thats good for top end...... >Espen > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 20:06:40 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs >Greg: > >Snip....... > >As regards your comments about cam ramp angles...... I was aware of >that issue and don't regard it as relevant at the extreme lash >involved...... 50K+ trouble free miles on this engine in a single >axle semi tractor (391 engine) bear that out. Life expectancy of a >gas engine in this application isn't much over about 80K no matter >what engine you use, and it is still running strong and has been >trouble free. H.W. Then I guess I must be nuts to be building a gas engine for duty in a 27500 GCVW vehicle which is designed make 925 ft lbs from 1600 thru 4000 rpm, continuous duty, anywhere from sea level up to 11K MSL , on ULR fuel, and have a 10000 hour (500K mile) design life! (And have a cruising bsfc below .35 #/bhphr.!) I am sure that the dude with forty years of professional engineering and mechanical experience should listen very carefully to the guy who didn't know that flattys used floating bearings, and rather reliably, on engine design issues! Howard--I think you might have some potential! If you would quit taking up so much bandwidth on this list telling yourself how much you know, I think that you might actually have the capacity to learn something here! Regards, Greg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 19:20:04 -0700 From: Sandy Subject: Re: Cam regrinds feasible? (roller regrind) I have a roller that was for a pro-stock, something like .775" lift, just a bit much for my use, not much, but just on the edge for a road race card (BBC). So Had it cut back to the .700 or so (I forget). I decided to back to the nice safe Chevy ZL1 Solid lifter cam, always worked good, so why change. Sandy At 01:38 PM 5/1/99 -0700, you wrote: >At 12:27 PM 5/1/99 -0700, you wrote: >>You can do some regrinding to rollers, I did, but it was almost not worth >>it. The problem that I was told is that if you do too much you need to have >>it re-heatreated, and then it typically gets out of wack in terms of >>straightness or so he said. They can take some off and change the profile >>a bit, but you need to check with a grinder that can do it to see how much >>and actually what it will cost. In the long run, more problems then it's >>worth, just get the grind you want and save the exercise. >> >>Sandy > >That's one q I'd been wondering on, can they successfully retreat the 'new' >outer core to a suitable hardness while maintaining a more ductile inner >core. I guess I'm always trying to figure out a way to get my foot in the >door and gradually create the more expensive product w/ less money;^) >having a hard time phoning them as they're 'only' a 5 day 9-5 company...hmm >that's what we are and I like it;^) > > >Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada > > '80 327ZX IZCC#255, Edmonton Z-car Club #44, British Columbia ZCR >Life's a journey, not a destination.. Enjoy the pitstops and maximize the >straights > >mailto:zxv@xxx.ca *New ICQ # 11549358 >http://home.iSTAR.ca/~zxv/index.shtml >http://207.212.212.139/~corrigan/gearheads/pics/wheels/sirbg.jpg where a >Z belongs ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 21:07:12 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: atomization enhancement > >Caterpillar has carried this to extremes and >> >has some diesel engines running ungodly high pressures....I don't know >> >the exact figures. > >On our International it's 2,800-3,200 PSI. But, this is diesel. > >> > I propose changing out the injectors on my vehicle with injectors >> >rated for lower flow, and raising the pressure to compensate. >> >Pressure would be adjusted in "open loop" mode using an exhaust >> >analyzer. It has been said that most injectors are rated at pressures >> >far above what they are operated at. >> > I'm sure this is far from an original idea, and that some of you >> >have done it..... How much difference does it make, and what about >> >pump load at the higher pressures..... how much increase in pressure >> >is required. >> > I'd like to hear about peoples experiences and mishaps doing this >> >> Most injectors will go to 80 maybe 100 PSI differential tops across them >> before they will either stick fully open or stick fully closed. > >Some of the disc type completely lock closed at as low as 90, the pintle >"seem" OK to 110, or so. Again this are reported numbers, but the 90 and >disc was from a reputable source. >Grumpy Some custom (efi, not diesel) injectors are running 200--300 psi delta. Formula car apps. and such. $ 600 or so apiece. Greg > >> =========================================================== >> David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net >> Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 >> Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they >didn't?! >> =========================================================== >> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 21:10:42 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Flame - Not Could you detail what a *flathead* >>> motor design consists of? >> >>Yeah.. the heads are flat. ;) Nothing in them but the plugs. >> >>During the early part of the century up through the 50's, Ford made >>flathead V8s which were extremely good engines and used in a wide >variety > While on the subject, let's not forget the "F" head--one valve in the head and one in the block! Jeep, for one did it. Regards, Greg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 23:22:11 -0400 From: James Ballenger Subject: Re: atomization enhancement CEIJR@xxx.com wrote: > James: > Although we haven't done extensive testing yet, we have benched some > injectors at varying pressures and pulse widths. As we suspected before > setting up the bench, the generally accepted formulas are not very accurate. > An increase in pulse from 2 ms to 4 ms does not exactly double flow. Nor does > flow vary directly with the square root of the pressure. The dynamics of > opening and closing are affected differently by pressure for different > injector types and sizes, and obviously flow is affected by the percentage of > the pulse a particular injector takes to open and close. Math is good for > ballpark estimates, and injector selection, but bench testing and then dyno > testing are unfortunately necessary for final tuning. Just out of curiosity, how many points did you take the data at? What I'm getting at is, can a mathematical approximation be made for a particular type or size injector and how much might it vary from another injector type? Was the flow = Sqrt(pressure) close? James Ballenger ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 20:34:10 -0700 From: "Mike Pilkenton" Subject: radiators? I know this is a little off topic for the efi list but I'm finishing up my 3.1L V6 engine transplant project into my Opel GT and it's time to think about cooling. Can anyone suggest a decent OEM radiator that would be sufficient for the GM 60 degree V6 and fit in a tight area say about 13 in tall by 16 in wide? Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 21:39:29 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Cam regrinds feasible? (roller regrind) >You can do some regrinding to rollers, I did, but it was almost not worth >it. The problem that I was told is that if you do too much you need to have >it re-heatreated, and then it typically gets out of wack in terms of >straightness or so he said. They can take some off and change the profile >a bit, but you need to check with a grinder that can do it to see how much >and actually what it will cost. In the long run, more problems then it's >worth, just get the grind you want and save the exercise. > >Sandy Yep--Roller cams are generally made out of 8620 steel--a gear steel, like is used for ring and pinion gears. These cams are case hardened, using copper plating to mask the parts of their surface (everything but the lobes) which do not get the high carbon case (plate the whole thing, then grind the copper off of the lobes). I think the carburized case is only .030 to .050" thick, and you really need most of it for the lobes to live. Re heat-treating such a cam is not at all simple to do properly--you would have to rough grind to new profile, re plate, grind plating off of lobes, recarburize, and then finish grind. (If you want it right.) Pretty likely to be every bit as expensive as a new one. Just get one, new, the way you want. Regards, Greg > >At 10:49 AM 5/1/99 -0700, you wrote: >>well here's the last of my q's that have gone unresolved off other >>resources.... >> >>Local super comp dragster racing team has been selling of some unused new >>stuff in the local penny ads. They have one custom Bruce Crower ground >>roller cam, 650 lift, 300 duration w/ 105 centre left brand new that's too >>conservative for their efforts of late for $100CD. They sold a 2nd one >>same specs to a 'vette owner who had it reground to 575 lift, 112 lobe >centres. >> >>I'll check out the regrind price from the local grind guru's "Shadbolt" >>(any horror stories on them? I've only heard good so far), but at their >>price I should be able to get a reground roller for 30% or so below new and >>to my own custom specs, assuming their's room in this monster for a 214/218 >>at 114 or 115 or similar (or v. open to reccomendations....). I know I'd >>need the Bronze distr. gear for $40CD or so as well. >> >>Just checking this out. For their cost I might just pick it up and decide >>later as I don't think resale 'netwise would be hard to break even. >> >>thanks again >> >>Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada >> >> '80 327ZX IZCC#255, Edmonton Z-car Club #44, British Columbia ZCR >>Life's a journey, not a destination.. Enjoy the pitstops and maximize the >>straights >> >>mailto:zxv@xxx.ca *New ICQ # 11549358 >>http://home.iSTAR.ca/~zxv/index.shtml >>http://207.212.212.139/~corrigan/gearheads/pics/wheels/sirbg.jpg where a >>Z belongs ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 23:40:19 -0400 From: James Ballenger Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? Bruce Plecan wrote: > If when ya do the cam, on the passenger side of the water pump is a hole > in the water pump/block. Tap that out and put a 1/8 pipe plug in, it. Is that the weep hole or something else? Why would you want to plug it? > Then drill a 1/16 or 1/8" hole in it. Also, a 1/8" hole in the thermostat. > The above is just what works for me. I had very good luck with the small (1/8") hole cooling down my overheating escort, when I had it. James Ballenger ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 23:43:45 -0400 From: "Rudi Machilek" Subject: RE: 1227749 Oh, and I pressure tested my homemade fuel rails this morning and they leak right through the aluminum tubing. I found that odd. I know aluminum is somewhat porous compared to other metals, but 100psi of air pressure on the end of the fuel rail, submerging it into a litter box full of water resulted in small bubbles forming on the surface of the aluminum. When the pressure is released, the bubbles appear to receed back into the aluminum. Very odd. Just thought you'd all get a kick out of it. Seamed tubing, aluminum, or stainless even, may show bubbles when tested with nitrogen (air). If the bubbles do not flow, no real big deal. Any liquid fuel is a lot bigger molecule than nitrogen. Use seamless tubing to avoid that. For fun, take some 304 or 316 SS tubing (even seamless) and submerge it in Clorox for a week. Now leak test that. Provides a new definition for porous. Use 317 SS (not very available) and almost no effect. Materials studies are a great way to burn a bunch of hours. Rudi Machilek ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 21:20:11 -0700 From: "Howard Wilkinson" Subject: Re: Flame - Not William: You wrote: > >Some of the old 4-cylinder Jeeps were flatheads, some were OHV. As far as >I know all modern Jeep engines are OHV or OHC. > On this note, one of the old 4 banger Jeep engines was called an F head and had 4 overhead valves in the head, and 4 flathead type valves in the block.... an interesting design. H.W. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 21:35:24 -0700 From: "Howard Wilkinson" Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs Greg: More power to you if you can accomplish that...... I happen to live in the real world, and deal with old fashioned Ford & GM engines such as the FE series and the Small block & big block GM engines. The comment on life expectancy is based on 20+ years of working on these engines. I'd love to see a gas engine with a 500K life in a farm truck, and a bcsf below .35............. With the technology people are using around here the service life I spoke of is realistic based on real life experience, not labratory environments..... some go over 100K TBO, but not many, and it is a struggle to achieve a bcsf of .50 (impossible with a Holley carb). I've worked on a lot of engines over the years, but apparently not seen the bearing setup you describe...... I presume you are refering to Ford 239 engine when speaking of "flattys", and assume you speak of a single bearing spanning an entire rod journal (2 rods)..... I've owned vehicles with these engines, but never had to work on them. I'll believe the .35 and 500k figure when I see it in real life! - -----Original Message----- From: Greg Hermann > >Then I guess I must be nuts to be building a gas engine for duty in a 27500 >GCVW vehicle which is designed make 925 ft lbs from 1600 thru 4000 rpm, >continuous duty, anywhere from sea level up to 11K MSL , on ULR fuel, and >have a 10000 hour (500K mile) design life! (And have a cruising bsfc below >.35 #/bhphr.!) > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 01:32:04 -0400 From: Raymond C Drouillard Subject: Re: atomization enhancement On Sat, 1 May 1999 21:07:12 -0600 bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) writes: >Some custom (efi, not diesel) injectors are running 200--300 psi delta. >Formula car apps. and such. $ 600 or so apiece. > >Greg Well... so much for the thought of getting four of them and using them to inject liquid propane. Oh well... Ray ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 22:37:26 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Flame - Not >On Sat, 1 May 1999, Raymond C Drouillard wrote: > >> >of their cars and a number of early street rods. Not only Ford used >> >flathead engines though; I've got one in a '55 Jeep, which is an inline >> >6-cylinder. >> >> I believe that they were used with the inline 4 cylinder Jeep engines, >> also. > >Some of the old 4-cylinder Jeeps were flatheads, some were OHV. As far as >I know all modern Jeep engines are OHV or OHC. There was also the not-so modern SOHC hemi Tornado. Quite the motor in its IKA (Argentinian) twelve port headed, triple DCEO Webered trim! (310 HP from 230 cid at only 5200 rpm! Regards, Greg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 00:36:33 -0400 From: "Rudi Machilek" Subject: RE: Fuel Pump Check Valve... Swagelok - outlets in any major city. Can specify seal material and are rebuildable. Rudi Machilek ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 21:43:39 -0700 From: Aaron Willis Subject: Re: Espen's Reed Valves At 06:35 PM 5/3/99 -0700, you wrote: >Espen: > That's one I've never heard..... or even considered...... what a >thought.... Has someone been doing that.....Wow the possibilities are >fantastic..... With such a setup you could use a centrifugal advanced >cam to get variable duration and the reed valves would take care of >the blowback problem at the low end...... At least a first thought >it seems like a brilliant solution.... wish I'd thought of that >one..... I'm going to have to think on that a bit more. It takes care >of the intake at least. H.W. > >> >>Offcourse.......you are right , I have wanted to try a 4 stroke with reed valves >>in the intake and run a camshaft thats good for top end...... >>Espen >> >> > > Honda did this in 1982 in their XR500 four-stroke dirt bike. It was a 500cc (saw that coming) single and the reed valve apparently was used to eliminate low-speed reversion which caused big singles to stumble or stall at very low RPM. A friend of mine owned and rode one but I don't suppose he ever removed the valve to evaluate its effectiveness. Aaron Willis ICQ #27386985 AOL IM: hemiyota http://surf.to/garage-te51 Garage TE51 International ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #256 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".