DIY_EFI Digest Monday, May 3 1999 Volume 04 : Number 260 In this issue: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? 747 for timing only Emulators Re: Need Fuel Injector Data Re: Transplant Re: Flame - Not Re: Fuel injection plugs Re: Flame - Not (Tornado engine?) Re: Direct Injection - Stratified Re: Espen's Reed Valves Re: atomization enhancement Re: floating flatheads Re: Direct Injection - Stratified Re: Espen's Reed Valves injector firing rates Re: valve job question Re: atomization enhancement Re: Direct Injection - Stratified RE: Flame - Not (Tornado engine?) Re: Fuel injection plugs Injectors & harness Re: valve job question RE: Flame - Not (Tornado engine?) RE: valve job question Re: 1227749 Re: Injectors & harness Reverse Cooling? RE: Flame - Not (Tornado engine?) Re: Reverse Cooling? Re: Direct Injection - Stratified - FISH Carb Vault....?? Re: Injectors & harness Re: Espen's Reed Valves Re: Espen's Reed Valves Re: Direct Injection - Stratified Re: Espen's Reed Valves Re: Direct Injection - Stratified - FISH Carb Vault....?? See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 07:12:01 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? Ross Corrigan wrote: > > At 06:56 PM 5/2/99 -0400, you wrote: > >Ross Corrigan wrote: > > > > Any pics or writeups of your Z8's?? I'm starting a collection of web info > to supplement a friends webpage Maybe I've got some entertaining stories, but that's about it. Only other thing I've got left is the 240Z emblem from the hatchback. Had a folder full of stuff that went with the car. Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 07:41:35 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: 747 for timing only Did the BIN for the 747 ignition only setup get posted to the incoming directory? If not, can someone forward a copy to me? Thanks. Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 08:01:53 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Emulators Hello all, The emulator board Beta order is being sent off this morning. Files have been transferred and the Money Order will be sent here shortly. The PCB house says 3-4 weeks (Without almost doubling the price... this is standard delivery) and when I receive them, they will be shipped right out. Hopefully, everything will run smoothly, Gerber files have all they need etc... I'm a bit pre-occupied right now as my son was kidnapped on Wed, 4-28-99. I'll let everyone know when I have a ship date from the PCB house. Thanks, Dave =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:16:11 -0400 From: "CLsnyder" Subject: Re: Need Fuel Injector Data - ----- Original Message ----- From: Shannen Durphey To: Sent: Saturday, May 01, 1999 2:12 AM Subject: Re: Need Fuel Injector Data > There needs to be something to offset the forgotten birthdays, > meetings, bill payments, appointments, etc. > Thanks. > Shannen > Steve Ravet wrote: > > > > "swagaero". Why do I remember stuff like that? Not sure if the group is aware, but Steve, the founder of SwagAero died in a plane crash this last year. Apparently a partner is carrying on. > > > > --steve > > > > Shannen Durphey wrote: > > > > > > There was a website which mentioned using Saturn parts for aircraft > > > EFI conversions. Can't quite remember the name, but I will post it > > > when I do. If you can't wait, the person who owned the site was a > > > member of this list at one time. His posts should be in the archives. > > > Shannen > > > > > > Bruce Plecan wrote: > > > > > > > > Couple things come to mind. > > > > GM 1987 Sunbird 2.0L 4 cylinder Turbo might be close, they are P+H. > > > > www.lindertech.com that's off the top of my head but they are in gasoline > > > > Alley > > > > Indianapolis, IN. Then RC Eng in SoCal.. > > > > How much info do you have about that ecms prom calibrations?. > > > > If your point man is gone, you might need to reevaluate your posistion. > > > > Bruce > > > > > > > > > A friend of mine and I are working on an unusual project. We are adapting > > > > a > > > > > '93 Saturn ECM and two DIS modules to run a Continental O-200 aircraft > > > > > engine. The engine is 200 C.I. (3.3 L) 4 cylinder dual plug and should > > > > make > > > > > about 120 HP at about 2800 RPM. > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone supply us with the information or give us an idea of where we > > > > can > > > > > find a chart with the injector data? > > > > -- > > Steve Ravet > > sravet@xxx.com > > Advanced Risc Machines, INC > > www.arm.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:20:23 -0400 From: "CLsnyder" Subject: Re: Transplant - ----- Original Message ----- From: Howard Wilkinson To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 10:27 AM Subject: Re: Transplant > Jim: > Please explain the term "floating rod bearings"......... I've > never heard it before...... The only "floating rod bearings" I've > experienced are those which spin between the bearing and the > rod.......... Definitely a bad deal.... forshadows doom! > H.W. > Some engines were MADE with spinning inserts - bearing material on both sides. Others use a loose cage rollers, with the rod being the outer race, and the crank the inner. Obviously the latter are NOT pressure lubed. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Davies > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > Date: Saturday, May 01, 1999 12:24 AM > Subject: Re: Transplant > > > > > > > >On Sat, 1 May 1999, Robert Harris wrote: > > > >> Nah - some insane whacko is building a unique engine from various > scrap parts > >> and ancient hot rod ideas. When it get's finished, it will be > vaguely fordish > >> and definitely unusual and maybe not too expensive. > >> > >Floating rod bearings too? > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:32:56 -0400 From: "CLsnyder" Subject: Re: Flame - Not - ----- Original Message ----- From: William T Wilson To: Sent: Saturday, May 01, 1999 8:52 PM Subject: Re: Flame - Not > On Sat, 1 May 1999, Raymond C Drouillard wrote: > > > >of their cars and a number of early street rods. Not only Ford used > > >flathead engines though; I've got one in a '55 Jeep, which is an inline > > >6-cylinder. > > > > I believe that they were used with the inline 4 cylinder Jeep engines, > > also. > > Some of the old 4-cylinder Jeeps were flatheads, some were OHV. As far as > I know all modern Jeep engines are OHV or OHC. Many old Jeep 4s wer "F" heads - intake in the head, exhaust in the block. > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:47:53 -0400 From: "CLsnyder" Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs - ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Hermann To: Sent: Sunday, May 02, 1999 1:47 AM Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs > >Greg: > > More power to you if you can accomplish that...... I happen to > >live in the real world, and deal with old fashioned Ford & GM engines > >such as the FE series and the Small block & big block GM engines. The > >comment on life expectancy is based on 20+ years of working on these > >engines. > I had a '57 Fargo with the big (264.5)flathead six. At 249,000 miles I headed from Ontario Canada to Tulsa Oklahoma. It used a quart of oil every day at 65 - 70 mph. I sold the truck about 5 years later with the same engine in it - and the guy who bought it put a 340 six-pack in so we sold the engine to another guy for his '47 dodge coupe. Ih had the head replaced once, and a valve job that I am aware of. The 264 had the forged crank. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:09:05 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: Flame - Not (Tornado engine?) Wasn't one of these engines also used in the Checker Marathon before they switched to Chevy? Gary Derian In this country--the Tornado engines only came with an eight port head (individual exhausts, but two logged intakes), and obviously without the good rods. It came in early sixties Gladiator pick-ups and Wagoneers. And, as one might expect for a hemi head with a short duration cam with aggressive valve lift rates, it got rather good mileage--about 17.5 mpg, highway--- in a well tuned 4x4 Gladiator. But--no, it was not a high revver. > > > Continental also mfrd an inline 6 cylinder, pushrod, 12 port 7 main > industrial engine. The only one I ever saw was in a Trackmobile. Delivered > new with the governor not working. It never popped, and it wasnt for lack > of trying. Could make it sound just like a good, strong SBC going thru > the traps...If they had combined short block and cylinder heads... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:16:59 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: Direct Injection - Stratified It doesn't have to be a big restriction, and the overall benefits may outweigh the drawbacks but the combustion that takes place in the chamber is restricted from delivering pull power. You must be referring to the Honda CVCC which was a good solution to emissions at the time. My comment was mostly directed to prechamber diesels where all the fuel is injected into the prechamber. Gary Derian > > -> Any time a device that restricts flow is introduced into the path of > -> air and fuel, power is reduced. A pre-chamber is such a device and > -> such an engine will lose efficiency compared to an open chamber > -> design. > > A prechamber doesn't necessarily have to restrict flow. It can be *in > addition* to normal flow, as was used in various Japanese automobile > engines a few years ago. > > ==dave.williams@xxx.us====================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:12:42 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: Espen's Reed Valves My guess is the reeds restrict flow at high rpm. Look at the size of a reed cage in a 125cc motorcycle engine. The whole cage is maybe 2 by 3 inches. The really early engines used no cam for the intake valves, just a lightly sprung poppet valve. Gary Derian > > -> cam to get variable duration and the reed valves would take care of > -> the blowback problem at the low end...... At least a first thought > > Alfa Romeo built some engines like that 20 years ago. There were also > some stationary engines using reed valves at the beginning of the > century. > > The Alfa setup let them run a long duration cam without confusing the > carburetor with reversion pulses or contaminating one cylinder's intake > charge with another's exhaust coming through on overlap. It looked like > a fine idea to me, and I have no idea why they dropped it. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:31:37 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: atomization enhancement A "puddle" of fuel in this context can mean a cloud of droplets in the port. The shock wave that hits this breaks up the drops into smaller ones. Sure it gets diluted, etc. but its the best we have for now and it does work pretty well. The only way to inject atomized fuel in a short period of time is with a mechanical injection pump except maybe the stuff used in single rail diesels. Does anyone know what the single rail diesels use for pressure and injectors? One question I have is When does a SEFI system fire the injectors, during the intake stroke or some other time? Gary Derian > There has been some recent research that indicates the best atomization > occurs when the exhaust hits the puddled fuel behind the intake valve when > the valve opens. Atomization of fuel as it leaves the injector is not > terribly important. > > Gary Derian > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 09:29:03 -0400 From: "Peter D. Hipson" Subject: Re: floating flatheads A floating bearing is free to spin on either surface, the rod, or the crank. Both the rods and the crank are surface for this, and the bearing has load surfaces on both sides. Oiling is done with mulitple holes, and groves. At 12:35 AM 5/2/99 -0700, you wrote: >Pardon me for interrupting the spirited repartee, but what >the heck is a floating bearing, Greg? I know about inserts >and rollers, have poured and bored babbit bushes... >Piston pins "float" in rod bushes - Unless they don't. >Perhaps you are referring to dip/splash oiling schemes, as >opposed to pressure lubrication? >Anyway, would appreciate an elaboration. > >Thanks, Jack > > > Thanks, Peter Hipson (founder, NEHOG) 1995 White NA Hummer Wagon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 14:30:46 GMT From: bob@xxx.com (Robert Harris) Subject: Re: Direct Injection - Stratified Contrary to public myth, there actually is more than one stratified charge design - but then anyone who was not blindly prejudiced would have know that. For Example - the Texaco /MANN design where the fuel is injected past a sparking plug that is firing repeatedly. Gets the best of both diesel for economy and otto cause it can burn rich of stoic and great economy because it can run WOT always and no denotation. Then there is the unscavenged "blind"prechamber also known as a torch cell, which is not involved in air flow. The fuel scavenged prechamber ( the more common ) variant - which has fuel shot thru it - kinda like the spark plug injector thingee that started this thread. Its not involved in air flow. The air scavenged pre chamber ala Honda CVCC - which has a separate intake valve ( very small ) and port and runner - again not interfering with flow - Honda continued this design with a three valve head that had two intakes, one exhaust and a cvcc valve. Didn't seem to slow them down much. Didn't seem to have any negative impact on air flow or power or economy. In fact, excepting some obscure diesel designs, none of the popular pre-chambers is a device that is involved in the main air flow so they can't possible introduce a restriction into the path of fuel or air. The minor loss of theoretical peak thermal efficiency is greatly offset by the vast increase in range of combustion, quality of fuel, and faster burning. But hey - I must be a dumbshit - I only researched it extensively instead of simply anally extracting some spurious so there comment. - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 22:31:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@xxx.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Re: Direct Injection - Stratified - - -> Any time a device that restricts flow is introduced into the path of - - -> air and fuel, power is reduced. A pre-chamber is such a device and - - -> such an engine will lose efficiency compared to an open chamber - - -> design. A prechamber doesn't necessarily have to restrict flow. It can be *in addition* to normal flow, as was used in various Japanese automobile engines a few years ago. ==dave.williams@xxx.us====================================== I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 07:09:15 -0700 From: "Howard Wilkinson" Subject: Re: Espen's Reed Valves Dave: I'm not sure if you are speaking of the many "hit & Miss" type engines which used an ordinary valve with a light spring which was sucked open during the intake stroke..... I presume this is what you mean by "reed valve".....or was there some other form of reed valve used? A friend of mine has a number of these engines still in use. H.W. - -----Original Message----- From: Dave Williams To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 10:24 PM Subject: Espen's Reed Valves - -> cam to get variable duration and the reed valves would take care of - -> the blowback problem at the low end...... At least a first thought Alfa Romeo built some engines like that 20 years ago. There were also some stationary engines using reed valves at the beginning of the century. The Alfa setup let them run a long duration cam without confusing the carburetor with reversion pulses or contaminating one cylinder's intake charge with another's exhaust coming through on overlap. It looked like a fine idea to me, and I have no idea why they dropped it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 08:06:18 -0700 From: "Howard Wilkinson" Subject: injector firing rates Can anybody tell me what the max practical firing rate for most of these injectors is ..... how many time a minute or second....obviously pulse width limits this, but at minimum pulse width what are the limitations of the typical injector? H.W. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 08:03:11 -0700 From: "Howard Wilkinson" Subject: Re: valve job question An old trick which I will relate, but not advocate, is to run the piston down to the bottom of the cylinder, and smear grease on the cylinder wall above it. You then run the piston up and the top ring gathers the grease ahead of it on the way up. You then perform you piston cleaning chore with your wire brush while protecting the other cylinders, etc, and blow or suck the surface clean when done. Then you crank the piston back down, and the grease with any crud that found it's way down around the piston remains near the top of the hole where you can wipe it out. This is a trick many of the old timers used, and it works, but I'm sure it is not considered good form these days. H.W. - -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Harding To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 9:54 PM Subject: Re: valve job question >>off the carbon that was on top of the cylinders. I used to rotate the engine >>around and bring the pistons up to tdc and whirl away with a drill bit >>mounted wire brush. >> >> >>nowadays I wonder if all it did was make the piston top pretty and introduce >>lots of debris into the engine especially the cylinder walls, creating years >>of wear in minutes. > >Like you i've been known to do the same thing with the drill bit mounted >wire brush whilst the head is off (on my own motors), just filling in time >i guess and more than anything making it look shmick for any one who comes >by :P > >when I do I simply make sure that I have someone else holding the >compressed air across the top of the piston at the same time, and rags down >the adjacent cylinders. generally most of the debris gets blown away, and >any that is down the gap can be blown out with the compressed air. > >When you rotate that piston to the bottom again, just carefully wipe up the >bore with a clean rag, that will get any lingering debris. > >If you are really concerned, just turn the engine over by hand a couple >more times, and look for any more being dropped by the piston as it goes >down the bore. > >just my thoughts :) > >One thing i do think it can help with is a high compression engine pinging, >because (for a short time) there is no carbon deposits to stay hot enough >to ignite the fuel/air. > >again just my thoughts, and some observation... > >cya > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 09:02:21 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: atomization enhancement >A "puddle" of fuel in this context can mean a cloud of droplets in the port. >The shock wave that hits this breaks up the drops into smaller ones. Sure >it gets diluted, etc. but its the best we have for now and it does work >pretty well. The only way to inject atomized fuel in a short period of time >is with a mechanical injection pump except maybe the stuff used in single >rail diesels. Or with an air boost. Does anyone know what the single rail diesels use for >pressure and injectors? The injectors are directly above the chambers, and are actuated by an extra cam lobe/rocker arm. No idea what the pressure in the injector itself goes up to when it gets actuated--but HIGH--Probably hydraulic tappet style pressures. On a Cummins PT system (Pressure/Time) the fuel rail pressure varies with engine speed/ load, as this pressure is what determines how full the injectors get before getting activated by the cam. Up to maybe 300 psi in the rail. Changing the "button" in the Cummins fuel pump changes the pressure /speed output curve of the pump, and thus changes the amount of fuel injected at full load on a Cummins. (Not all Cummins B series (pick-up) engines have PT injection. This is 855, KT, and triple nickel stuff.) On Jimmys, there is a rack the length of the head which varies injector stroke, (adjusting the lash on the injector rockers and adjusting to equalize the strokes of the injectors is the source of the term "running the rack" or "running the overhead") and the fuel rail in the head is at relatively constant pressure, maybe 150 psi?? But--again, the actual injection pressure is on up there. Regards, Greg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 11:48:36 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: Direct Injection - Stratified Gee Robert, if all these engines are so good, why aren't they used by anyone? Maybe they are in the same vault with the Fish carburetor. Gary Derian > Contrary to public myth, there actually is more than one stratified charge > design - but then anyone who was not blindly prejudiced would have know that. snip ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 13:05:47 -0400 From: "Rudi Machilek" Subject: RE: Flame - Not (Tornado engine?) Entire Toronado front drive assemble was also used in the GM Transmode RV. As I recall, the carburetor was a Carter Thermo-quad that was prone to warping and leaking. Would have loved an EFI set-up. We loaded them down with gas analyzers and mini lab set-ups and drove them all over the US. Pretty decent gas mileage but prone to overheating. Another great idea not engineered thoroughly. Rudi Machilek >In this country--the Tornado engines only came with an eight port head >(individual exhausts, but two logged intakes), and obviously without the >good rods. It came in early sixties Gladiator pick-ups and Wagoneers. And, >as one might expect for a hemi head with a short duration cam with >aggressive valve lift rates, it got rather good mileage--about 17.5 mpg, >highway--- in a well tuned 4x4 Gladiator. But--no, it was not a high >revver. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 12:08:18 -0500 (CDT) From: "Gregory A. Parmer" Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs > > I'd love to see a gas engine with a 500K life in a farm truck, and > >a bcsf below .35............. With the technology people are using > >around here the service life I spoke of is realistic based on real >... > The 500K figure takes a good engine to begin with, and then some high tech > tricks and quality parts on top of that. The engine I have started out with > has a lengthy track record of running 10K hours on the heads, and 25 K > hours on the bottom end, on natural gas, at about 80% load, 2400 rpm on > well head irrigation pump applications. And that--with "farmer" I missed the beginning, but you guys are arguing for the sake of arguing now. You both know that these 2 engines/scenarios are completely non-comparable. Gasoline truck vs natural gas stationary unit. Haha. Curiosity forces me ask what type of engine is this ex pumping unit? Our LPG Olds 455 unit sings a sweet tune in that app, altho it is far from efficient with today's low pressure irrigation. The Continental flathead unit sits with a hole in the block. - -greg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 13:45:09 -0400 From: Barry Tisdale Subject: Injectors & harness I'm looking for a couple of injectors & connectors from a Syclone ('91 GMC port injected 4.3) for setting up a test rig. Does any other vehicle use these port injectors & matching connectors? I'm not likely to find a Syclone or Typhoon @xxx. Thanks - Barry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 14:23:52 -0400 (EDT) From: William T Wilson Subject: Re: valve job question On Sun, 2 May 1999, Shannen Durphey wrote: > > Cleaning the carbon deposits off of the piston isn't really all that > > important because they just come right back when the engine runs the next > > time. > > Sounds like a tire shop I went to once. "No need to clean the mud off > the wheel before we balance it. It just gets muddy again anyway." Heh. No, that's different, because the carbon deposits don't affect the operation of the engine. Really. Unless there's so much of it that it causes dieseling. My suggestion is more akin to saying "no need to clean the mud off the wheel before you rotate the tires." :} ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 12:29:00 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: RE: Flame - Not (Tornado engine?) >Entire Toronado front drive assemble was also used in the GM Transmode RV. >As I recall, the carburetor was a Carter Thermo-quad that was prone to >warping and leaking. And dissolving in some Pemex gasolines, at various, very inopportune times! Would have loved an EFI set-up. We loaded them down with gas analyzers and mini lab set-ups and drove them all over the US. Pretty decent gas mileage but prone to overheating. Another great idea not engineered thoroughly. Think you might have the Jeep/Continental/TORNADO 230 cid OHC I-6 engine we were talking about with the 455 Olds V-8 that was used in the TORONADO, Rudi! :-) Regards, Greg > >Rudi Machilek > >>In this country--the Tornado engines only came with an eight port head >>(individual exhausts, but two logged intakes), and obviously without the >>good rods. It came in early sixties Gladiator pick-ups and Wagoneers. And, >>as one might expect for a hemi head with a short duration cam with >>aggressive valve lift rates, it got rather good mileage--about 17.5 mpg, >>highway--- in a well tuned 4x4 Gladiator. But--no, it was not a high >>revver. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 11:50:10 -0700 From: "Stowe, Ted-SEA" Subject: RE: valve job question hmm well these are more like burned oil deposits, actually the more WD 40 I spray on them the more I can seem to wipe them up. I will go get a can of that GM top engine cleaner. sounds like a nicer thing to do. > -----Original Message----- > From: William T Wilson [SMTP:fluffy@xxx.org] > Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 11:24 AM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: valve job question > > On Sun, 2 May 1999, Shannen Durphey wrote: > > > > Cleaning the carbon deposits off of the piston isn't really all that > > > important because they just come right back when the engine runs the > next > > > time. > > > > Sounds like a tire shop I went to once. "No need to clean the mud off > > the wheel before we balance it. It just gets muddy again anyway." > > Heh. No, that's different, because the carbon deposits don't affect the > operation of the engine. Really. Unless there's so much of it that it > causes dieseling. > > My suggestion is more akin to saying "no need to clean the mud off the > wheel before you rotate the tires." > > :} ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 14:31:10 -0500 From: Thomas Martin Subject: Re: 1227749 I have a decent contact at a local boneyard (he owns it!), what vehicles should I be on the lookout for to find a 1227749 ECM? He has a large stack of ECM's, and many 80's cars. Thomas Martin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 15:35:45 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: Injectors & harness All GM TPI injectors use the same connector, as well as most ford. Pep boys might even have them. True Value does, but I don't have the number Bruce > I'm looking for a couple of injectors & connectors from a Syclone ('91 GMC port injected 4.3) for setting up a test rig. Does any other vehicle use these port injectors & matching connectors? I'm not likely to find a Syclone or Typhoon @xxx. > Thanks - Barry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 14:36:07 -0500 From: Thomas Martin Subject: Reverse Cooling? Has anyone retorfitted an older V8 (non LT1) with reverse cooling? Is there any drawbacks to reverse cooling vs conventional? It is worth the mechanical rework to do? I am curious to see why GM did it on the LT1, and from what I have gathered, dropped it on the LS1. Knowing GM, there MUST have been a good reason. Thanks! Thomas Martin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 12:50:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Davies Subject: RE: Flame - Not (Tornado engine?) On Mon, 3 May 1999, Rudi Machilek wrote: > Entire Toronado front drive assemble > > >In this country--the Tornado engines Two different critters... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 15:53:35 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: Reverse Cooling? - ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Martin To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 3:36 PM Subject: Reverse Cooling? Moroso actually used to sell a kit for doing that. Trouble was it wouldn't double the HP, so was too much work. Bruce > Has anyone retorfitted an older V8 (non LT1) with reverse cooling? > > Is there any drawbacks to reverse cooling vs conventional? It is worth the > mechanical rework to do? > > I am curious to see why GM did it on the LT1, and from what I have gathered, dropped > it on the LS1. Knowing GM, there MUST have been a good reason. > > Thanks! > Thomas Martin > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 14:14:26 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Direct Injection - Stratified - FISH Carb Vault....?? http://www.interlog.com/~boni/fish/fish.html Sincerely, Todd....!! Gary Derian wrote: > > Gee Robert, if all these engines are so good, why aren't they used by > anyone? Maybe they are in the same vault with the Fish carburetor. > > Gary Derian > > > Contrary to public myth, there actually is more than one stratified charge > > design - but then anyone who was not blindly prejudiced would have know > that. > snip ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 14:40:00 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Injectors & harness Hello People, My name is Todd, I'm new to the DIY FI thread, but believe this e-mail thread system is a heaven sent... What is the easiest setup to use on a 450+ cube BB from scratch... in order to put out at least what it does in it's carb'd form of 450+ HP, future plans are to twin turbo the beast.... Ya'll are WAY more experienced with this kindof stuff.. I'd like ya'lls input in this matter! Any help is SO appreciated....!! The engine is a built 440 cu in engine and I want to inject it with the most efficient system available for the least expensive price... i.e. already existing OEM parts, if possible.... Laptop programmable is probably a must.... Thanks.... Todd.... P.S. - I plan on using an EEC-IV with aftermarket injectors and throttle body because of the larger displacement and HP... What do ya'll think? Thanks again.... Barry Tisdale wrote: > > I'm looking for a couple of injectors & connectors from a Syclone ('91 GMC port injected 4.3) for setting up a test rig. Does any other vehicle use these port injectors & matching connectors? I'm not likely to find a Syclone or Typhoon @xxx. > > Thanks - Barry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 22:50:28 +0200 From: "Espen Hilde" Subject: Re: Espen's Reed Valves Hi! I want to use a reed cage from a outboard two stroke engine or crosser bike. With carbon fiber reed pedals for minimum restriction,or boyesen reeds.There is little difference in max output from two stroke with reedvalve and rotary valve.By using a hotter cam than you would do without reeds, I think you can have more hp at max and gobs of torque down low.I would be difficult to mount the reeds as close to the valves as possible, I think a 4 valver is most suited because of the two inlet runners making a easy transition to the wide reed cage. Using a rotary file and file the two runners together and mount the reed cage as the start of the intakemanifold. Espen. > Dave: > I'm not sure if you are speaking of the many "hit & Miss" type > engines which used an ordinary valve with a light spring which was > sucked open during the intake stroke..... I presume this is what you > mean by "reed valve".....or was there some other form of reed valve > used? A friend of mine has a number of these engines still in use. > H.W. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Williams > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 10:24 PM > Subject: Espen's Reed Valves > > > > -> cam to get variable duration and the reed valves would take care of > -> the blowback problem at the low end...... At least a first > thought > > Alfa Romeo built some engines like that 20 years ago. There were also > some stationary engines using reed valves at the beginning of the > century. > > The Alfa setup let them run a long duration cam without confusing the > carburetor with reversion pulses or contaminating one cylinder's > intake > charge with another's exhaust coming through on overlap. It looked > like > a fine idea to me, and I have no idea why they dropped it. > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 17:15:30 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: Espen's Reed Valves - ----- Original Message ----- From: Espen Hilde Subject: Re: Espen's Reed Valves Remember how expensive internal engine parts are. If the reeds brake they can raise hell inside an engine. They are good for just a very limited range, before they "peg" open.... To get enough reed area for a "big" engine to breath thru would be a huge reed cage. Bruce > I want to use a reed cage from a outboard two stroke engine or crosser > bike. > With carbon fiber reed pedals for minimum restriction,or boyesen > reeds.There is little difference in max output from two stroke with > reedvalve and rotary valve.By using a hotter cam than you would do without > reeds, > I think you can have more hp at max and gobs of torque down low.I would be > difficult to mount the reeds as close to the valves as possible, I think a > 4 valver is most suited because of the two inlet runners making a easy > transition to the wide reed cage. Using a rotary file and file the two > runners > together and mount the reed cage as the start of the intakemanifold. > Espen. > > Dave: > > I'm not sure if you are speaking of the many "hit & Miss" type > > engines which used an ordinary valve with a light spring which was > > sucked open during the intake stroke..... I presume this is what you > > mean by "reed valve".....or was there some other form of reed valve > > used? A friend of mine has a number of these engines still in use. > > H.W. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dave Williams > > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > > > Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 10:24 PM > > Subject: Espen's Reed Valves > > -> cam to get variable duration and the reed valves would take care of > > -> the blowback problem at the low end...... At least a first > > thought > > Alfa Romeo built some engines like that 20 years ago. There were also > > some stationary engines using reed valves at the beginning of the > > century. > > The Alfa setup let them run a long duration cam without confusing the > > carburetor with reversion pulses or contaminating one cylinder's > > intake > > charge with another's exhaust coming through on overlap. It looked > > like > > a fine idea to me, and I have no idea why they dropped it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 17:07:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@xxx.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Re: Direct Injection - Stratified - -> Gee Robert, if all these engines are so good, why aren't they used by - -> anyone? Maybe they are in the same vault with the Fish carburetor. The stratified, lean-burn, and DI technologies produce higher levels of oxides of nitrogen than conventional designs. NOx is hard to deal with; there are catalytic convertors that can handle *some* NOx, but not the amounts a really fuel-efficient engine can put out. It comes down to a choice - do you want to use cheap smog control technology, or do you want maximum fuel efficiency? Note DIY isn't necessarily concerned with smog. ==dave.williams@xxx.us====================================== I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 15:40:50 -0700 From: Aaron Willis Subject: Re: Espen's Reed Valves At 05:15 PM 5/3/99 -0400, you wrote: >Remember how expensive internal engine parts are. If the reeds brake they >can raise hell inside an engine. > They are good for just a very limited range, before they "peg" open.... >To get enough reed area for a "big" engine to breath thru would be a huge >reed cage. >Bruce I see your point. Does anyone have access top a reed cage from, say, a 500cc motocrosser? That should flow enough air for the 60+ horsepower it produces. Is it too big to fit nicely into a typical intake port? Say an eight-cylinder engine, so eight times 60 = 480 horse capacity. It seems too simple to me, maybe somebody can help me out here? I understand that flow through a two-stroke engine cannot be compared directly to that of a four-stroke, but am too lazy to do the figuring and figured I'd offer this to the group as fodder... Aaron Willis ICQ #27386985 AOL IM: hemiyota http://surf.to/garage-te51 Garage TE51 International ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 16:25:45 -0700 From: "Rick" Subject: Re: Direct Injection - Stratified - FISH Carb Vault....?? The real story behind these fishy carbs http://www.syc.org/e/dennis27.htm Rick - ----- Original Message ----- From: Todd....!! To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 2:14 PM Subject: Re: Direct Injection - Stratified - FISH Carb Vault....?? > http://www.interlog.com/~boni/fish/fish.html > > Sincerely, > > Todd....!! > > Gary Derian wrote: > > > > Gee Robert, if all these engines are so good, why aren't they used by > > anyone? Maybe they are in the same vault with the Fish carburetor. > > > > Gary Derian > > > > > Contrary to public myth, there actually is more than one stratified charge > > > design - but then anyone who was not blindly prejudiced would have know > > that. > > snip > > ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #260 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".