DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, May 12 1999 Volume 04 : Number 279 In this issue: Re: alternative engines, WARPED re: in cylinder pressure measurement Re: In cylinder pressure measurement Re: alternative engines, WARPED Re: RPM independence Re: alternative engines, WARPED Re: alternative engines, WARPED Re: In cylinder pressure measurement Re: In cylinder pressure measurement Re: poor mileage RE: In cylinder pressure measurement Re: Misc Electronics / barrier coat / reverse cool. Re: A very English EFI system Re: Honda Vtec ECU Re: Transplant Re: Misc Electronics / barrier coat / reverse cool. Re: Modifying OBD-II systems Re: RPM independence Found 454/502 truck prom Re: Modifying OBD-II systems Re: Found 454/502 truck prom Re: Modifying OBD-II systems Re: alternative engines, WARPED Re: Modifying OBD-II systems Re: Misc Electronics / barrier coat / reverse cool. See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:17:24 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: alternative engines, WARPED >I hear ya Harold, makes sense to me... > >However I have a Dana 60 with the 4.10's and it takes a bit longer to >swap out the gears in that baby, it'd probably be quicker to swap ou >tthe entire rearend!? > >Good idea though. My friend with another 70 Bee which DOES have a Dana >swapped his 4.10's out for some 3.23's and MAN does it HAUL on the >highway! > VERY INTERESTING!!! Especially since the tallest gear set Spicer ever made for a 60 is 3.54!! and the tallest set I know of, aftermarket, for a 60 is 3.33 (33 : 11), and not a very good one at all! (Look at the tooth count if you wonder why it is not a bright combo!) Where did he get his gears?? Taller gears are around for Dana 61's, but they were not made in 1970!! There simply isn't enough room for a 13 tooth pinion in a 60!! Regards, Greg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 17:55:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "Frank/G.speed" Subject: re: in cylinder pressure measurement In cylinder pressure measurement would be tremendously useful, as is with any data you can acquire with data acq. Oh yeah a while back I asked people if they've read articles about the Soft Head. I have those articles scanned now: http://www.theoldone.com/articles - -- Frank M. Lin | http://www.g-speed.com/pbh Honda related tech files frank@xxx.com/pbh/fastest drag registry Field Electronics, Z.Speed, NASA, skunkworks http://www.g-speed.com The T.O.O. Archive, Endyn - Energy Dynamics http://www.TheOldOne.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:59:03 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: In cylinder pressure measurement >Has anyone ever heard of anybody doing this? I was talking with someone >about data acquisition systems and the subject came up while we were >discussing methods of knock detection. I'm not to enthusiastic about being >able to monitor A/F ratios accurately or in realtime, and our conversation >kinda stuck with me. > >If anyone's ever seen or heard about somebody performing in cylinder >pressure measurements I'd love to hear about it. I imagine the transducers >would have to be pretty tough, how would they mount? What kind of sample >rate do you think would be needed? Best of all, who would make a sensor that >could take the abuse??? I have heard rumors that fiber optic technology based pressure transducers capable of doing real time, in chamber pressure measurement, and for a reasonable (production plausible) cost, are in the very near future. I have not got any vendor info on them, yet. Regards, Greg> > > >Charles Brooks ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:45:47 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: alternative engines, WARPED That's GREAT Clive, Tahnks a bunch for the input mang! Later, Todd.... Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020 wrote: > > > > > I believe that 100 hp is a type-o and should've been 1000, right? > > > > do you mean 8 80 lb injectors for an 8 cyl sequential port injection > > system? That seems a tad bit big for 1000 hp... > > > > What's the formula ya used for this calc? > > avg .55lb fuel / hp under boost and .45 NA > p > the 80 is too large but leaves a little room for overboost etc. > > Clive ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 16:16:29 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: RPM independence Oh man Ted, I got it from RANDALL'S, on Fuqua street right here in South Houston, by Pearland.... It's a very cool mag and talk about some power producing mules!! ALL the cars in it are FI'd some turbo'd some not, but ALL haul some MAJOR BOODY! Haven't finished the mag yet, but it's been great thus far... They only speak about GM efi as well as aftermarket but no other brands of oem efi systems suchb as the EEC's from Fart..er Ford.... BTW I DID get my 83 t-birds ignition to work with my good ol backup electronic distributor from my Dodge! Two wires and I was there, it's a spark producin foooo.... Had a great and powerful spark too... however couldn't get the dern points distributor in the engine's distributor hole, the points distributor was too big for the hole!! Wierd, ey? Haven't found an answer as to why yet, maybe I snagged the wrong distributor, like one outof a 351 instead of a 302, I can't tell the diff, they looked so similar!! If anyone has any insight to this, please let me know... Plans are to go back the the yard and trade the points for a newer electronic distributor out of a newer model Ford car... Any advice? LATER! Todd....!! Stowe, Ted-SEA wrote: > > where do you get GM High-Tech Performance ? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Todd....!! [SMTP:atc347@xxx.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 9:53 AM > > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > Subject: Re: RPM independence > > > > Howard the article is in the May 99 issue of GM High-Tech Performance > > > > And the brand that uses Volumetric and other formulae instead of look-up > > tables is known as Electromotive.... Probably heard of em? HAHA!?? > > > > Keep me informed of your progress in this matter! > > > > LATER! > > > > Todd....!! > > > > Howard Wilkinson wrote: > > > > > > Todd: > > > I would be very interested in reading the article you mentioned. > > > Please let me know if you find it. > > > My basic thought here is to emulate the working of the Bosch > > > mechanical CIS fuel injection system electronically which would allow > > > it to be modulated by feedback, but still yield a system simple enough > > > to be operated by a very low cost controller. Injector timing is > > > irrelevant, therefore injector firing rate is also irrelevant within > > > the range above engine RPM. > > > Perhaps mathematical formulae are not adequate to control fuel > > > delivery.... maybe lookup tables are necessary. The Bosch mechanical > > > system used a shaped MAF to keep fuel flow which was mechanically > > > controlled in line with the motion of the MAF actuator arm. This put > > > the mathematical calculation into the profile of the MAF throat which > > > was in effect a computer (a mechanical computer). It took far more > > > intelligence in my opinion to design this one part than to program > > > look up tables which can be done by trial and error, or by a simple > > > feedback system. I believe I could sit here and flow chart out and > > > write a program to generate the lookup tables based on feedback, and > > > minimal programmer input. I'm just looking at different possible > > > approaches to the problem of managing fuel delivery via computer. > > > H.W. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Todd....!! > > > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 1:15 PM > > > Subject: Re: RPM independence > > > > > > >Hello Howard, > > > > > > > >your theory is TOTALLY GREAT and acceptable, and a system has alread > > > >ybeen created, produced, and marketed, and it's gone over wiht a > > > pretty > > > >good fine tooth comb within on eof the laterChecvy Hi po mags dealing > > > >with all of the diff types, makes, and brands of FI for just about > > > any > > > >type engine! > > > > > > > >Will get the name of the mag, I know you already know about the mag, > > > >just maybe not about the article(s) within this specific issue? > > > > > > > >But the basic function of the type system I believe you are referring > > > to > > > >is based upon the use of formulas instead of tables... I think you > > > are > > > >right in line witht the way this REALLY advanced system is designed > > > to > > > >function! > > > > > > > >Will post details later, (mag's at home)! > > > > > > > >LATER! > > > > > > > >Todd....!! > > > > > > > >Howard Wilkinson wrote: > > > >> > > > >> I have given more than a little thought to the possibility of an > > > EFI > > > >> system that operated completely independently of engine RPM. The > > > idea > > > >> being that as the injectors are batch fired anyway, the timing is > > > >> irrelevant so long as the injectors fire at engine RPM or more. > > > >> Such a system could be almost entirely MAF based. The > > > injectors > > > >> would begin at a very short pulse width, and simply increase pulse > > > >> rate up to a set pulse rate where width would be increased > > > thereafter. > > > >> Such a system could be operated based on mathematical formulae > > > rather > > > >> than on look up tables. A simple equation based on ECT could > > > modify > > > >> the result for cold operation, and a TPS modifier would give > > > >> accelerator pump effect. Map should not be necessary as air > > > density > > > >> should directly effect MAF output. An O2 loop would handle minor > > > >> dicrepancies. > > > >> A lot of the complexity of the common EFI systems comes from > > > the > > > >> desire to fire the injectors once per revolution. Because of RPM > > > >> dependence, the MAP, MAF, & TPS outputs are meaningful only in the > > > >> context of RPM. Total fuel delivery per unit time is only directly > > > >> related to MAF.... It is not closely related to RPM, Throttle > > > >> Position, or Vacuum individually as it is to MAF. The MAF tells us > > > >> how much fuel we must deliver per unit time, but the system must > > > then > > > >> work out the pulse rate based on RPM, and pulse width for that rate > > > to > > > >> achieve the desired delivery per unit time. > > > >> If we know that x amount of fuel is delivered at Y pulse width > > > per > > > >> pulse, then it becomes a simple matter to determine how many pulses > > > >> per unit time are required to deliver that amount of fuel. At some > > > >> point pulse rate reaches a max practical limit, and at that point > > > >> pulse rate can become constant, and pulse width may be modified > > > above > > > >> that point to control fuel delivery. The fewer factors you are > > > >> changing the simple the program becomes. > > > >> Perhaps this is a simple minded vew of the process, but then > > > I'm a > > > >> simple minded sort of guy.... I am of the "KISS" school of thought. > > > >> H.W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 16:20:38 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: alternative engines, WARPED Thanks for the advice mang, it's priceless!! As for this injector bung thing... So you have to WELD the bungs into aluminum? Is there a web site about this? I'd like to go ahead and start weldin some bungs(Where do I buy em? and for how much) into my m-1 dual quad sittin in the closet justa waitin to come out n play.... Thanks so much for all you experience man! Appreciate it! LATER! Todd....!! Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > The ignition wires protruding from the front tend to make the engine > > look messy... > > The electromotive system has the same coil pack setup as the modern > day GM TPI engines, including the Grand National, most FWD 3800cc > engines, Camaros & Vettes. > > > Where would ya'll recommend mounting the big cmoputer and coil packs on > > a big car like my 70 Coronet Superbee(Looks kinda like a Dukes a Hazard > > 69 Charger) > > The whole EFI is one piece (Electromotive), so it goes on top of your > intake, or on your firewall. If you have a dual-carb hi-rise plenum, > it fits under certain ones, but it will get fairly hot and shorten its > life. Firewall is the best place. > > > Would it go in or around the glove box? Or under the hood somewhere > > cool? > > The you'd have to cut holes in your firewall for the plug wires and > wiring harness. > > > Fred, your advice sounds like an affordable alternative to plain ol > > stocker injection... which would be tough to make handle my power > > demands...even without the twin turbo's! > > Well, I'm going with the GM OEM stuff simply because its a fun > project, and I can invest time for nearly free rather than buying > something for $1000. have to save some cash for the fabrication work > to make this all fit. > > > Hey, have you eve thought of creating a package deal for your Mopar? > > Naaah, I'll post pictures on the 'net and let everyone check it out > for free, not in the business of making money on these things... I do > them because I enjoy "fangling" and I get to learn stuff, which is the > whole point. Otherwise, I'd just plop a mopar crate motor in with a > big carb and be done with it. Certainly less effort than all this > welding of injector bungs and such. > > -- > > Frederic Breitwieser > Bridgeport CT 06606 > > 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental > 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy > 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos > 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 17:07:26 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: alternative engines, WARPED You ARE lucky man! As for the diff 'tween the two dist's, the single point is shorter AND the larger diameter areas are too big to fit into the block hole! The original distributor that was in the t-bird has NO internals except the shaft and rotor, that IT, the shaft is in two peices, it is held together by two screws which is made so that you can index the rotor so the the tip of the rotor is phased correctly with the cap so as to reduce cross sparking, such as is one of the probs with the mopar electronic distributor, the rotor is a tad outa phase from the magnetic pickup so that when you put full advance with the vac advance mechanism(56 degrees!) there is sometimes a cross sparkin prob...) ANYHOO, will try and get a duraspark unit from the yard instead of makin my own from scratch outa two or three different brand distributors like Dr. Frankenstein!! It just ain't worth it.... Thanks for your insight in this matter, I know no Ford people as friends, MOST of em are intimidated due to my loud exhaust and BIG lookin engine n all... So they kinda avoid the beast... However, I DID find a new place where a LOT of newer stangs and firebirds n all hang out, there were at least two stangs with s-trim superchargers at a parkin lot in Deer Park on Center Street, one of the dudes was pretty old but he DID have his $hit together and was pusin 17 lbs of boost on an o-ringed s.b. Ford 5.0! He even showed me his time slip! He was in the 11's with like a 1.7x 60 ft time! COOL? LATER! Todd....!! Pete Boggini wrote: > > Todd....!! said: > > > >Well, did ya'll know that all s.b. 302 Fords are NOT created equally? > > > >The single point distributor out of an old EARLY 70's LTD behemoth > >didin't fit into the 83 t-birds 5.0 distibutor hole! > > > >The first large diamter area of the single point distributor with an > >o-ring on it is too big in diameter for the hole and will not fit unless > >I turn the diameter down a bit... > > > > Huh? Let's see, I've had a 289 that I stuck a later model duraspark > in and it worked fine. More recently I had an '87 5.0 that I had > the same duraspark distributor in and it worked fine. Its got the > TFI distributor in it now since its EFI, but I don't remember there > being differences like that. > > Was that possibly a 351W distributor? They are longer, or so I've > been told, but they may be wider too. I will admit that I didn't > try and stick the single point distributor in the 5.0, well, I tossed > that distributor so I can't check now.:-). > > Of course, I was also told that since the TFI distributor, with its > longer shaft, would require modifications to get it to fit with my > Motorsport oil pump shaft, but it fit fine. I've since heard there > are two shafts, and I must have the shorter one. But, it worked with > the duraspark distributor. > > Boy do I feel lucky...:-). > > peterb > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Peter Boggini > Systems Administrator/Corporate Operations > E-mail: pjb@xxx.com > Phone: (650)933-6858 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 17:29:25 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: In cylinder pressure measurement Charles, You're in luck... I believe the sensors are mounted to the outside end of a spark plug and just record the pressures/vaccums involved from there.... If the sensor is mounted far enough away from the cylinder, the heat won't be a factor, only the accuracy of the readings due to pressure variances due to the length of tube(i.e. distance) from the cylinder tha tthe sensor is mounted... They do it a lot at the dyno's, I'd start with dyno shops after this e-mail thread and go from there! COOL! Please be sure and post what your findings are.... Later! Todd....!! C. Brooks wrote: > > Has anyone ever heard of anybody doing this? I was talking with someone > about data acquisition systems and the subject came up while we were > discussing methods of knock detection. I'm not to enthusiastic about being > able to monitor A/F ratios accurately or in realtime, and our conversation > kinda stuck with me. > > If anyone's ever seen or heard about somebody performing in cylinder > pressure measurements I'd love to hear about it. I imagine the transducers > would have to be pretty tough, how would they mount? What kind of sample > rate do you think would be needed? Best of all, who would make a sensor that > could take the abuse??? > > Charles Brooks ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 17:42:52 -0500 From: steve ravet Subject: Re: In cylinder pressure measurement www.kistler.co.uk has what you're looking for. They have sensors built into spark plugs, and ones that you drill/tap into the head. I had a catalog from them once, if you want to buy any of their stuff you'd better apply for a government grant first because it isn't cheap. - --steve "C. Brooks" wrote: > > Has anyone ever heard of anybody doing this? I was talking with someone > about data acquisition systems and the subject came up while we were > discussing methods of knock detection. I'm not to enthusiastic about being > able to monitor A/F ratios accurately or in realtime, and our conversation > kinda stuck with me. > > If anyone's ever seen or heard about somebody performing in cylinder > pressure measurements I'd love to hear about it. I imagine the transducers > would have to be pretty tough, how would they mount? What kind of sample > rate do you think would be needed? Best of all, who would make a sensor that > could take the abuse??? > > Charles Brooks - -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@xxx.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 22:52:33 GMT From: charlesmorris@xxx.com (Charles) Subject: Re: poor mileage On Wed, 12 May 1999 17:14:19 -0400, you wrote: >>I get 6.1-6.2 mpg on the highway currently and MUST correct this >>I believe I CAN get over 20 mph with a mild 440 in a 3700 lb car! Uh, that's "mpg", right? ^^^ ;) >First off, if you are still running a 8 3/4 rear end, get a high ratio center >section ( 2.76 or so) and swap it May be a little tall depending on his cam... how 'bout 3.23? >Next, find a 650 or smaller _vacuume_ secondary carb >Third, run a distrubitor with vacuume advance on the street. Excellent advice. Too many hotrodders think "bigger is better" when it comes to induction systems. Same for mechanical-only distributors "it's a RACE part, so it must be really fast"! >Fourth, keep your foot out of it! Come on, Harold. The whole point of a 440 IS to put your foot in it! >You may not get 20 mpg, but you should at least double your current 6 mpg. I concur. I used to have a Valiant (~3200 lb) with a 383, Holley 750 vac.sec, vacuum advance distrib, Street Hemi cam, headers, 4-speed manual, 3.23 rear. Got 14-15 mpg on the highway at 65 mph. Mix of highway and Saturday night stoplight action, 12 mpg. Lowest ever was 8.5 mpg (nearly all at WOT going to the 7-11 store a quarter of a mile away ;) Then I got carried away and built a 7:1 440, BDS 6-71 blower, two 750's, no vacuum advance. Only 9 mpg on the highway with the same drivetrain. Of course it was flooding badly (dirt in the needle valve seats)... One more non-EFI story. My '84 F150 was only getting 12 mpg until I advanced the timing about 20 degrees (damper mark had moved, apparently, so it was way too retarded). Now 15 mpg with no other changes. Points out the value of a proper advance (i.e. including vacuum advance), doesn't it! - -Charles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 17:54:28 -0500 From: Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com Subject: RE: In cylinder pressure measurement diesel engines have been using this method for many years to monitor cylinder pressure and cylinder balance. Fiber optics have even been used to monitor the combustion event. AET of Canada has a new system called ECM (engine condition monitor) that is based on instantaneous crankshaft angular velocity measurements. The ICAV approach might be something to check out since 2 non contacting hall effect sensors mounted on the bellhousing measure flywheel speed. Periodic variations in crankshaft velocity can indicate each cylinders pressure and balance. Check out the May issue of Diesel Progress for more info. Don > -----Original Message----- > From: C. Brooks [SMTP:cbrooks1@xxx.net] > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 3:02 PM > To: DIY_EFI Mailing List > Subject: In cylinder pressure measurement > > Has anyone ever heard of anybody doing this? I was talking with someone > about data acquisition systems and the subject came up while we were > discussing methods of knock detection. I'm not to enthusiastic about being > able to monitor A/F ratios accurately or in realtime, and our conversation > kinda stuck with me. > > If anyone's ever seen or heard about somebody performing in cylinder > pressure measurements I'd love to hear about it. I imagine the transducers > would have to be pretty tough, how would they mount? What kind of sample > rate do you think would be needed? Best of all, who would make a sensor > that > could take the abuse??? > > > > Charles Brooks ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 19:56:40 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: Misc Electronics / barrier coat / reverse cool. Just for grins, we barrier coat the piston domes the intake valve face, the exhaust valve face. In theory then we have captured more heat to be recovered by the movement of the piston, right??. Now that we have with held this higher heat, for a longer period of time, then more heat is put into the top of the cylinder bores, right..... The cooling system was designed so that the exhaust valve seat area is the "hot spot", so don't we now have to "reverse" cool the engine to get the max effectiveness out of this??.. grumpy > If you can find one--a methylene chloride vapor cleaning tank will clean > aluminium and titanium to a degree that you would not believe without > harming the metal at all. It will all but make any oils JUMP off the parts! > Regards, Greg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 08:21:53 +0800 From: "WILMAN" Subject: Re: A very English EFI system - ---------- > From: Robertson, Nigel > To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu' > Subject: A very English EFI system > Date: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 6:48 PM > > HI, > > This is my first post to this mailing list, although I have been reading all > your comments for some time now. They have been both interesting and in a > lot of cases useful. > > This may be a long shot but have any of you guys had any dealings with the > Rover MEMS engine management system designed by Motorola. I would like to > look more deeply at this system because I have two cars which use them. > However, the automotive industry in the UK is a very Secret society and > getting any information is virtually impossible. Any information from > dealers is usually wrong because they do not have the technical expertise to > answer questions. > > So, I am trying this list as a last resort. If anybody has opened one up I > would be interested in hearing from you, or , if anyone is interesting in > trying the US route of gaining info for me (Freedom of Information is a > wonderful thing) I would be most grateful. > > Thanks In Advance > > Nigel > I think the system is designed by a British company called Gems. They should serial reprogrmmable. Which model of cars have you got? I am using one of their programmable systems on a Peugeot. > _________________________________________________________________________ > Nigel Robertson, BEng. CEng. MIEE. > Senior Engineer > Roke Manor Research Ltd > Old Salisbury Lane > Romsey > SO51 0ZN > Tel 01794 833524 > Fax 01794 526943 > email nigel.robertson@xxx.uk > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 08:26:03 +0800 From: "WILMAN" Subject: Re: Honda Vtec ECU - ---------- > From: Alexander Wenning > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: Honda Vtec ECU > Date: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 4:21 PM > > WILMAN schrieb: > > Hello, > > > > Is there anybody out there who can help me to reprogram the ECU's > > found on 1992 onwards Honda Civic EG6 1.6 Vtec. Codes are either P30-G00 > > or P30-000. > > > > > > > > Wilman > > Thatīs really not easy. You have to switch the processor from internal rom to > external rom. Read the internal Rom from the processor and then fit a 27c256 > eprom into the blank space on the pcb. Could you tell me how exactly it can be done? What sort of equipment do I need to read the internal Rom? Now itīs very easy to modify the ecu > using an emulator. > > I have the information how to switch the processor from internal rom to an > external one but I donīt know which processor is inside. Having a look at the > ecu it shouldnīt be a problem to find the processor type and read the rom. Could you forward the information to me please? > > I guess Chris Smith from Racelogic is still on this list (Hi Chris!) and I think > he should know about that. > > If youīre just looking for a cost effective performance increase Iīd suggest the > Superchips conversion. They show an interesting 16 hp gain on the rolling road > (using high octane fuel). I need more flexibility on the race track. Are you in America? Is there a web site on which I can find more info on these ECU's? > > Regards > > Alex Wenning > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 20:51:16 EDT From: FHPREMACH@xxx.com Subject: Re: Transplant In a message dated 5/4/99 9:18:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time, gderian@xxx.com writes: << That was the Hirth roller cranks for the Porsche 356. If there are too many rod journals between the mains, it difficult to oil them. Ferrari F1 flat 12 engines from the mid 70's had only 5 main bearings and used rollers for the rods. Gary Derian Subject: Re: Transplant >> I think the common VW ones were actually SPG's. Also, they were only rollers on the rods, with plain main bearings as I recall. The main advantage as I recall was that they were availible in stroker lengths without the problems of early welded strokers. A friend of mine with a bug shop had one and said it didn't really have any affect on performance. I think Crower still makes a roller bearing camshaft. Smokey Yunick remarked about that after a lot of machine work to make a roller bearing cam it netted no horsepower difference on the dyno. Unless you have a desire to drastically reduce the amount of oil circulating inside a motor as I recall John Lingenfelter did a few years ago with a 30psi at max rpm motor, there isn't a lot of reason for to look at rollers. Motorcycles use them a lot just to reduce the amount of machine work and remove the oil pumps which become a problem when things get too small. If you want to see the roller bearing idea taken to an extreme, look up the Husky four stroke motorcycle motor that used a reed valve to pump air/oil mist around the motor for a pumpless system. Smart them Swedes!! Fred ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 19:25:31 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Misc Electronics / barrier coat / reverse cool. >Just for grins, we barrier coat the piston domes >the intake valve face, the exhaust valve face. >In theory then we have captured more heat to be recovered by the movement of >the piston, right??. >Now that we have with held this higher heat, for a longer period of time, >then more >heat is put into the top of the cylinder bores, right..... > The cooling system was designed so that the exhaust valve seat area is the >"hot spot", so don't we now have to "reverse" cool the engine to get the >max effectiveness out of this??.. >grumpy Yo--Grumpy-- If ya put Bore Tech on the bores, that reflects more heat there, too, and things balance out better! Greg > > > >> If you can find one--a methylene chloride vapor cleaning tank will clean >> aluminium and titanium to a degree that you would not believe without >> harming the metal at all. It will all but make any oils JUMP off the >parts! >> Regards, Greg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 21:43:16 -0400 From: Bill Shaw Subject: Re: Modifying OBD-II systems So we won't be having the open discussions about tuning the OBD-II systens like we do with the ALDL systems? What do the guys with new cars do when they hot-rod them? Stop participating in the program? >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:38:47 EDT >From: A70Duster@xxx.com >Subject: Re: Modifying OBD-II systems > >So would big brother. I believe that OBD-II was created to keep us DIYers >from "hacking" into the controller. Just watch your arse. > >See ya, > >Mike > > >>As I understand it, OBD-II is more difficult to hack then the pre-OBD-II >>systems. Has anyone on the list worked around the security and >>successfully hacked their OBD-II system? What problems did you have in >>doing so? Did you need any special equipment? I'd love to hear any OBD-II >>success stories. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Bill >> >>------------------------------------------------------------- >>Bill Shaw >>'78 124 Spider >>(Will soon be) Fuel injected and stepping out over the line >>http://www.connix.com/~bshaw/fiat.html >>------------------------------------------------------------- >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 22:05:09 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: RPM independence O2 sensors were running around in 1972. Bendix had a Cosworth Vega with EFI and an O2 sensor. I saw it in the spring of 1974 while interviewing at Bendix. First use on production car was Volvo 1978 or so. Gary Derian > "Program" lookup tables? "Feedback" system? When Bosch designed the > L-Jet, computers were capital investments that weren't particularly > portable, and there were no O2 sensors, though there was some primitive > exhaust gas analysis stuff - not particularly portable either. > > > "Gee, why did Paul Revere run around on his horse flapping some > lanterns? Couldn't he have just emailed everyone?" > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 22:07:37 EDT From: AL8001@xxx.com Subject: Found 454/502 truck prom Don't know if this has been posted. From the latest (1999) Jim Pace GM performance parts catalog: 502 truck engine swap package, lots of stuff to convert a 91-93 pickup. Most interesting to our group PROM PN 12366556 18 Psi fuel regulator for TBI PN 17113186 This engine makes 515 lb at 2800 and 340 HP at 4400 these number are _GROSS_ at the flywheel , not SAE at the output of the transmission. Harold ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 22:41:50 EDT From: ECMnut@xxx.com Subject: Re: Modifying OBD-II systems Not to worry mates,] The Snap_on tool man claims that the diag tool companies just won a big lawsuit that will alllow them to put MUCH more tuning power in the hands of the "non-dealer" mechanics. Also, if big brother is so against anyone touching the OBD-II ECM's, what's the scoop with the Hypertech Power Tuner products? They appear to be doing it okay. Buford In a message dated 5/12/99 9:45:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bshaw@xxx.com writes: > So we won't be having the open discussions about tuning the OBD-II systens > like we do with the ALDL systems? What do the guys with new cars do when > they hot-rod them? Stop participating in the program? > > > >------------------------------ > > > >Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:38:47 EDT > >From: A70Duster@xxx.com > >Subject: Re: Modifying OBD-II systems > > > >So would big brother. I believe that OBD-II was created to keep us DIYers > >from "hacking" into the controller. Just watch your arse. > > > >See ya, > > > >Mike > > > > > >>As I understand it, OBD-II is more difficult to hack then the pre-OBD-II > >>systems. Has anyone on the list worked around the security and > >>successfully hacked their OBD-II system? What problems did you have in > >>doing so? Did you need any special equipment? I'd love to hear any OBD-II > >>success stories. > >> > >>Thanks, > >> > >>Bill > >> > >>------------------------------------------------------------- > >>Bill Shaw > >>'78 124 Spider > >>(Will soon be) Fuel injected and stepping out over the line > >>http://www.connix.com/~bshaw/fiat.html > >>------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > > > ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- > Return-Path: > Received: from rly-yc05.mail.aol.com (rly-yc05.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.37]) > by air-yc05.mail.aol.com (v59.4) with SMTP; Wed, 12 May 1999 21:45:13 -0400 > Received: from esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (esl.eng.ohio-state.edu [128.14 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 22:45:37 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: Found 454/502 truck prom Who/what is a Jim Pace? I don't see any prom numbers that start with other than, 16 ------ Do you have a Broad Cast Code?. Is this using the 747 ecm?. Bruce > Don't know if this has been posted. > >From the latest (1999) Jim Pace GM performance parts catalog: > > 502 truck engine swap package, lots of stuff to convert a 91-93 pickup. > > Most interesting to our group > PROM PN 12366556 > 18 Psi fuel regulator for TBI PN 17113186 > This engine makes 515 lb at 2800 and 340 HP at 4400 these number are _GROSS_ > at the flywheel , not SAE at the output of the transmission. > Harold ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 23:01:34 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: Modifying OBD-II systems > So we won't be having the open discussions about tuning the OBD-II systens > like we do with the ALDL systems? As time passes more will occur. I'd imagine most folks are leaving them stock til the warranty runs out. The 747 was first used in 87 and just now became publlic domained. What do the guys with new cars do when > they hot-rod them? Stop participating in the program? Most so far have had to send them to folks that specialize in them. Bruce > >------------------------------ > > > >Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:38:47 EDT > >From: A70Duster@xxx.com > >Subject: Re: Modifying OBD-II systems > >So would big brother. I believe that OBD-II was created to keep us DIYers > >from "hacking" into the controller. Just watch your arse. > >See ya, > >Mike > >>As I understand it, OBD-II is more difficult to hack then the pre-OBD-II > >>systems. Has anyone on the list worked around the security and > >>successfully hacked their OBD-II system? What problems did you have in > >>doing so? Did you need any special equipment? I'd love to hear any OBD-II > >>success stories. > >>Thanks, > >>Bill > >>------------------------------------------------------------- > >>Bill Shaw > >>'78 124 Spider > >>(Will soon be) Fuel injected and stepping out over the line > >>http://www.connix.com/~bshaw/fiat.html > >>------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 23:05:33 -0400 From: "CLsnyder" Subject: Re: alternative engines, WARPED - ----- Original Message ----- From: Todd....!! To: Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 3:17 PM Subject: Re: alternative engines, WARPED > I hear ya Harold, makes sense to me... > > However I have a Dana 60 with the 4.10's and it takes a bit longer to > swap out the gears in that baby, it'd probably be quicker to swap ou > tthe entire rearend!? > > Good idea though. My friend with another 70 Bee which DOES have a Dana > swapped his 4.10's out for some 3.23's and MAN does it HAUL on the > highway! A friend has a '69 'Runner with the 383 Magnum, 2.7? gears and wide ratio box. Good out of the hole with the steep low gears, and excellent mileage driving half sensibly in 4th. Pretty well bury the needle in third at redline. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 20:42:21 -0700 From: GARY Subject: Re: Modifying OBD-II systems What do the guys with new cars do when they hot-rod them? What WILL they do? Can anyone help this poor soul who is being controlled by his ECU gain some control over his ECU? - -- GARY mailto:hobiegary@xxx.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 23:41:57 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Misc Electronics / barrier coat / reverse cool. Bruce Plecan wrote: > > Just for grins, we barrier coat the piston domes > the intake valve face, the exhaust valve face. > In theory then we have captured more heat to be recovered by the movement of > the piston, right??. > Now that we have with held this higher heat, for a longer period of time, > then more > heat is put into the top of the cylinder bores, right..... > The cooling system was designed so that the exhaust valve seat area is the > "hot spot", so don't we now have to "reverse" cool the engine to get the > max effectiveness out of this??.. > grumpy > I can tell you this: Takes longer for car to reach operating temp on the gauge (sender in LH head) than any other car I've owned, with this coating installed. I'll let you know what the chambers and pistons look like when I pull the heads off, as far as possible heating goes. Shannen ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #279 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".