DIY_EFI Digest Saturday, May 15 1999 Volume 04 : Number 285 In this issue: Re: Bored - oops Re: Rosie, K-Mart, Guns, & EFI Re: Rosie, K-Mart, Guns, & EFI Re: BMFC, Tiiming, and Coatings Yet another O2 sensor fakeout trick Re: Yet another O2 sensor fakeout trick Re: BMFC, Tiiming, and Coatings Re: Modifying OBD-II systems RE: FYI - Patent 5704321 - Traveling spark ignition system Re: alternative engines, WARPED Re: Variable Restrictiveness Exhaust Re: Variable Restrictiveness Exhaust Re: Yet another O2 sensor fakeout trick RE: BMFC, Tiiming, and Coatings I'm BACK...but NOW as a VENDOR Re: SAAB DI coils - was Re: "ION" information ... RE: BMFC, Tiiming, and Coatings Re: Yet another O2 sensor fakeout trick Re: Rosie, K-Mart, Guns, & EFI O2 sensor fakeouts Re: BMFC, Tiiming, and Coatings O2 voltz Re: O2 voltz See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 05:31:32 EDT From: EFISYSTEMS@xxx.com Subject: Re: Bored - oops Sorry Bob and everyone,,,, I too, sit out here and listen.......shit, when we argue we at least learn something....we all know we're not the "all knowing" We've all seen the posts we ignore because we "feel" it's above us....every single person here that has commented in the past few months has had some great things to offer.....and I for one have not given as much as I can to the group...but as time permits I will.....I enjoy this group and don't want to see it fall away to the narcissism.........sorry to bug. - -Carl Summers In a message dated 99-05-14 23:40:08 EDT, you write: << Subj: Bored - oops Date: 99-05-14 23:40:08 EDT From: bob@xxx.com (Robert Harris) Sender: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu Reply-to: diy_efi@xxx.edu To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Silly me let mickey shitware sent a private message publicly. Apologizes where deserved. I am getting somewhat edgy that few people enter into discussion - counter discussion about some things I post. I have been known to be full of horse pucky more often than not. And I have learned a lot by having it pounded in publicly. It would be very bad for my ego if people started accepting me as being mostly right. And sometimes, I am a little crankier and "nastier" than I need or want to be - but that's both the bane and the privilege of approaching senility and I can always claim I didn't take my pills and sort of forgot. And anyone that has habaneras with wheaties and keeps asbestos pantie liners around can't be all sane. The other comment was about another time place and subject and has nothing to do with this list. Again - my apologies to EVERYONE - no exceptions - for allowing the private post public. >> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 05:35:22 EDT From: EFISYSTEMS@xxx.com Subject: Re: Rosie, K-Mart, Guns, & EFI Hi Greg,,,Hi all, In a message dated 99-05-14 20:07:23 EDT, you write: << Subj: Rosie, K-Mart, Guns, & EFI Date: 99-05-14 20:07:23 EDT From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Sender: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu Reply-to: diy_efi@xxx.edu To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Fellow DIYer's-- From another list-- Rosie O'Donnell's commented: "I don't care if you think it's your right. I say: Sorry, it's 1999. We have had enough as a nation. You are not allowed to own a gun, and if you do own a gun I think you should go to prison. " -- Talk-show host and Kmart spokesperson, Rosie O'Donnell You should read Claire Wolfe's rejoinder at http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_cwolfe/19990513_xccwo_so_rosie_y.shtml ------------------ >> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 05:53:45 EDT From: EFISYSTEMS@xxx.com Subject: Re: Rosie, K-Mart, Guns, & EFI Hi Greg,,,Hi all, It's such a sad statement coming from one of our leaders...(right!!!!!!..........it makes me sick).......I had someone talk with me the other day about how Japan doesn't have gun problems becuase if you buy a gun the barrel is plugged and a sword is cut short for the general public,,,,,,,,,does it stop the unnecessary death???? NO, because it is well known it is easy to stop a life.....it is not an honorable thing,,,,here it it glamorous,,,I try to teach Honor but with young children it is a hard concept to distiguish between, .....I feel sorry for people like Rosie,,,,she just doesn't get it.......and I'm sorry to get off the EFI subject but alot of us have kids and we all have a pretty good idea of how we feel.............I don't talk as much as I should with my neighbors but I bet we all could talk about alot of stuff even if we don't agree............ttyl - -Carl Summers In a message dated 99-05-14 20:07:23 EDT, you write: << Subj: Rosie, K-Mart, Guns, & EFI Date: 99-05-14 20:07:23 EDT From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Sender: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu Reply-to: diy_efi@xxx.edu To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Fellow DIYer's-- From another list-- Rosie O'Donnell's commented: "I don't care if you think it's your right. I say: Sorry, it's 1999. We have had enough as a nation. You are not allowed to own a gun, and if you do own a gun I think you should go to prison. " -- Talk-show host and Kmart spokesperson, Rosie O'Donnell You should read Claire Wolfe's rejoinder at http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_cwolfe/19990513_xccwo_so_rosie_y.shtml ------------------ >> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 07:05:34 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: BMFC, Tiiming, and Coatings Glyptal is an epoxy paint used in electric motors and is mentioned in several engine books I have. Makes interior of block pretty red color. Shannen Stowe, Ted-SEA wrote: > > here's a thought, has anyone ever given any thought to painting the inside > of an engine ? before you hit delete, consider how easy it is for dirt etc > to stick to the inside of the block, under a microscope the surface must be > like velcro. I suspect oil would return a little quicker to the pan. just a > thought, you can flame me now. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce Plecan [mailto:nacelp@xxx.net] > Sent: Friday, May 14, 1999 9:31 PM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: BMFC, Tiiming, and Coatings > > Has anyone run any "independent" testing on these barrier coatings for what > they actually have seen as an improvement pre+post coating?. > Has any one run any endurance tests?. > Do I need mention that this might need a complete recal to get right. > Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 08:10:49 -0400 From: James Seabolt Subject: Yet another O2 sensor fakeout trick Thinking about trying yet another trick. I just can't leave this one thing alone. I would really like to get rid of my 5th injector. The fuel line is touching several items on the motor and I am afraid it might chap and spring a leak. Also it doesn't look very professional anyway. And the fact I am sure the injectors will provide enough fuel if I could just boost the pulse rate up a bit. Here's my plan. Since my pressure switch has three poles, I can wire it up with a resistor in parallel. When I hit the boost zone, the O2 sensor's output which is either .8 volts or .9 volts, however if I place a resistor between this circuit which brings the voltage down to .1 volts the computer will think the engine is running lean and increase the pulse rate trying to catch up. The trick will be to find the right resistance to create such a voltage drop. I know there is a formula somewhere. What size resistor do I need to drop the voltage from .9 to .1 volts? I am also assuming if I need a little more fuel, I can increase the resistance some more. - ---------------------------------------------------------- James Seabolt -----> mailto:jseabolt@xxx.net Webpage: http://users.intermediatn.net/jseabolt/ ICQ # : 7344463 United States 1980 FIAT 2000 TURBO Spider injected (John Deere aspirated) 1981 FIAT 2000 Spider (Rest in Pieces) 1981 FIAT X 1/9 (Injected) 1994 JEEP Wrangler (2.5l ) 1976 Chevrolet Pickup (454 Big block/7.3 liter) - ---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 08:31:19 EDT From: KD6JDJ@xxx.com Subject: Re: Yet another O2 sensor fakeout trick >Thinking about trying yet another trick. I just can't leave this one thing >alone. I would really like to get rid of my 5th injector. The fuel line is >touching several items on the motor and I am afraid it might chap and >spring a leak. Also it doesn't look very professional anyway. And the fact I> am sure the injectors will provide enough fuel if I could just boost the >pulse rate up a bit. >Here's my plan. >Since my pressure switch has three poles, I can wire it up with a resistor >in parallel. >When I hit the boost zone, the O2 sensor's output which is either .8 volts >or .9 volts, however if I place a resistor between this circuit which >brings the voltage down to .1 volts the computer will think the engine is >running lean and increase the pulse rate trying to catch up. >The trick will be to find the right resistance to create such a voltage drop. >I know there is a formula somewhere. What size resistor do I need to drop >the voltage from .9 to .1 volts? >I am also assuming if I need a little more fuel, I can increase the >resistance some more. James I'm no wizard in solid state , but I know that almost all silicon diodes have a forward voltage drop of about 3/4 volt. So, if you put one in series with a circuit drawing current, it will "drop" that voltage. That way you wont need to contend with the voltage divider, which will be current dependent. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 06:44:27 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: BMFC, Tiiming, and Coatings >Has anyone run any "independent" testing on these barrier coatings for what >they actually have seen as an improvement pre+post coating?. > Has any one run any endurance tests?. >Do I need mention that this might need a complete recal to get right. >Bruce A fellow I spoke with at HPC told me that they ran a dyno test of a fairly typical hipo 350 CID Chebby first with no coatings, then with coating only on the piston crowns. Said that--with no other changes, the steady state oil temperature at sustained full load dropped 15 degrees F. Greg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 10:06:33 -0400 From: "EK" Subject: Re: Modifying OBD-II systems - -----Original Message----- From: Bill Shaw To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 1:28 PM Subject: Modifying OBD-II systems I have had mixed results with a "OBD1 compliant" flashed based VCM used in a 1995 S-10 with a "W" CPI V6. Standard scan tool ALDL does not appear to work with it. I have tried one of the new B&B electronics AutoTap units, and it will not talk at all. The Autotap does work on newer GM stuff. I talked to one of the guys at B&B, and they are supposed to have new software out for the AutoTap within a couple months that will support my particular VCM. I have also talked to the guys at ACCEL about their powertap, and that device is not compatible with my unit, nor are they interested in making one that is. I pried the VCM case open to take a quick look, but did not have time to take any useful data. Remember seeing 2 separate PCBs, 2 wide SO flash -looking devices, and a 132 lead pqfp processor, with Motorola type markings- guessing a 68332 derivative. I was able to successfully fake out the cat O2 sensor by sending the VCM a constant bias voltage of .766V For actual operating monitoring, I hooked the 2 O2 sensors to a 2 channel DSO scope, and monitored the cat 02 changes, from .68V to .9V operating in ranges of idle to WFO. Idle voltage stayed very close to .70V. The fake Bias voltage is picked off from TPS reference voltage and divided down with a 10 turn 50K pot to .766V. I connected the ground from the oxy sensor to VCM to a local ground, as I believe the oxy sensor ground is used to cancel any thermoelectric voltage, which you probably don't want to add in this case. This setup has been OK with no MIL for about 9 months thru both hot summer and mild winter temps. Have had other problems recently, believe Sticking EGR that turned on MIL, but lightly "tapping" EGR valve turned MIL off after 3 driving cycles. GM Shop manual is very helpful, stating typical limits before trouble codes set. At this point in time, at least for me, I am not sure if it is more practical to fake out sensors, replace VCM with easily hackable computer, or wait for someone to come up with a reasonable cost OBD flash reprogramming tool. Eric ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 07:20:01 -0700 From: "Stowe, Ted-SEA" Subject: RE: FYI - Patent 5704321 - Traveling spark ignition system how do you search the patent archives ? - -----Original Message----- From: Peter Gargano [mailto:peter@xxx.au] Sent: Saturday, May 15, 1999 1:37 AM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: FYI - Patent 5704321 - Traveling spark ignition system I've been searching the patent acrhives (at least they provide free information, unlike the SAE's $10/article charge, and they only have the last 18 months, or so, on-line [AND you have to print it out too]) So, I found this (forget sparks, PLASMA is the way to go, dont work about lean mixtures either!) ! US patent 05704321 abstract: ! ! A plasma injector for an internal combustion engine, in one embodiment, ! includes two spaced apart and parallel donut shaped disk electrodes, ! between which a horizontally outward moving plasma is formed via a high ! voltage applied across the electrodes. The present invention is ! characterized by its efficient use of input electrical energy via electronic ! circuitry for driving the plasma injector. An ignition source provides an ! ignition plasma kernel which is several orders of magnitude larger than ! that produced by conventional spark plugs. Use of very lean combustible ! mixtures, in which the dilution of the mixture is achieved by use of exhaust ! gas recirculation, is made possible by the present ignition system. ! Considerable improvement in engine efficiency, and a major reduction in ! NOx exhaust gas pollutants are obtained via the present ignition. Here's the actual patent: http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US05704321__ - -- Peter Gargano peter@xxx.au http://www.techedge.com.au/teinfo.htm Ph: +61 2 6251 5519 Fax: +61 2 6251 6646 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 09:09:41 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: alternative engines, WARPED You won't see all 56 deg. while driving. It is a lot but will only occur at max vacuum and rpm above the full advance rpm. Gary Derian > > The Manual calls for 38 degrees total mechanical advance and lik 56 > degrees advance with the vacuum hooked up... > > Does this sound right to ya'll? > > Seems a tad bit much to me! > > Thanks again! > > Really appreciate the help! > > LATER! > > Todd....!! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 08:49:14 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: Variable Restrictiveness Exhaust Adding backpressure just for the sake of it won't improve low speed torque. Having small diameter ports which happen to add backpressure will. Its not the backpressure that improves torque. Its the low rpm tuned components that do. Now, having a variable restrictor that quiets the car when cruising is a good idea. The new Nissan Maxima has such a muffler. Mitsubishi 3000's have had them in the past. Gary Derian > Ord Miller wrote: > > >I use high flow cats. For the 1 or 2 HP difference, I really don't think > >it's worth the risk of legal problems or injuring my environmental > >consience. ;) > > >On the other hand, I am wondering if I could improve low rpm torque if I > >could add a variable restrictor?? > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 09:28:41 -0700 From: GARY Subject: Re: Variable Restrictiveness Exhaust 1) Gary, can you elaborate on how that muffler varies? Gary Derian wrote: > > Adding backpressure just for the sake of it won't improve low speed torque. > Having small diameter ports which happen to add backpressure will. Its not > the backpressure that improves torque. Its the low rpm tuned components > that do. Now, having a variable restrictor that quiets the car when > cruising is a good idea. The new Nissan Maxima has such a muffler. > Mitsubishi 3000's have had them in the past. > > Gary Derian > > > Ord Miller wrote: > > > > >I use high flow cats. For the 1 or 2 HP difference, I really don't think > > >it's worth the risk of legal problems or injuring my environmental > > >consience. ;) > > > > >On the other hand, I am wondering if I could improve low rpm torque if I > > >could add a variable restrictor?? > > 2) On the same note, I am under the impression that the length of the intake tract (air cleaner ducting plus manifold) is instrumental in tuned intake. I vaguely understand the principal, something to do with the length of the wave at a given frequency of intake suck and how that length is resembled in the intake tract. So as I understand it, an intake is tuned to a specific rpm (and multiples and fractionals of same rpm or frequency) by the length of the intake tract. This puts the harmonic frequency of the tract at the same frequency of the the resonance of the air flow. I am not really considering volume, just length. I'll get on to my question, but I need to know if I am correct so far. If I intervene in that tract by adding a duct (ram air) in a wye configuration, will I be changing the tune. I guess I would but I somehow think that if I "wye in" rather than replace I will be conserving some of the characteristics that I would have eliminated if I cut off the existing tract. 3) I am trying to decide the best way to dampen the signal from my Knock Sensor (the Subaru). The resistance of the KS is 520K ohm. The ECU appears to be sending about two to three volts D.C. to the Knock Sensor, but I don't know if that remains constant throughout operation. What do you guys think of a first resistor in series to dampen output along with a second resistor paralleling the seriesed KS and first resistor to make the overall resistance/impedance 520K ohm? or using a diode to allow the D.C. monitor current to pass while offering resistance to the KS generated signal. I thing a diode would filter the KS A.C. signal into D.C. and cause a problem. Any other ideas? Thank you for your attention folks! - -- GARY mailto:hobiegary@xxx.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 09:38:08 -0700 From: "Mark Romans" Subject: Re: Yet another O2 sensor fakeout trick Hi James: With a GM ecm (Unless it is some strange app) the ecm ignores the 02 sensor when at more than 70% throttle anyway. It goes into PE (Power Enrichment) and goes to a richer commanded afr. So making the 02 "Read" lean won't change the pw. Mark - -----Original Message----- From: James Seabolt To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Saturday, May 15, 1999 5:09 AM Subject: Yet another O2 sensor fakeout trick >Thinking about trying yet another trick. I just can't leave this one thing >alone. I would really like to get rid of my 5th injector. The fuel line is >touching several items on the motor and I am afraid it might chap and >spring a leak. Also it doesn't look very professional anyway. And the fact >I am sure the injectors will provide enough fuel if I could just boost the >pulse rate up a bit. > >Here's my plan. > >Since my pressure switch has three poles, I can wire it up with a resistor >in parallel. > >When I hit the boost zone, the O2 sensor's output which is either .8 volts >or .9 volts, however if I place a resistor between this circuit which >brings the voltage down to .1 volts the computer will think the engine is >running lean and increase the pulse rate trying to catch up. > >The trick will be to find the right resistance to create such a voltage drop. > >I know there is a formula somewhere. What size resistor do I need to drop >the voltage from .9 to .1 volts? > >I am also assuming if I need a little more fuel, I can increase the >resistance some more. > > >---------------------------------------------------------- > >James Seabolt -----> mailto:jseabolt@xxx.net >Webpage: http://users.intermediatn.net/jseabolt/ >ICQ # : 7344463 > >United States > >1980 FIAT 2000 TURBO Spider injected (John Deere aspirated) >1981 FIAT 2000 Spider (Rest in Pieces) >1981 FIAT X 1/9 (Injected) >1994 JEEP Wrangler (2.5l ) >1976 Chevrolet Pickup (454 Big block/7.3 liter) > >---------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 09:55:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Davies Subject: RE: BMFC, Tiiming, and Coatings On Fri, 14 May 1999, Stowe, Ted-SEA wrote: > here's a thought, has anyone ever given any thought to painting the inside > of an engine ? before you hit delete, consider how easy it is for dirt etc > to stick to the inside of the block, under a microscope the surface must be > like velcro. I suspect oil would return a little quicker to the pan. just a > thought, you can flame me now. > Most people use Glyptol for this... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 10:55:03 -0700 From: garfield@xxx.com (Gar Willis) Subject: I'm BACK...but NOW as a VENDOR Hey maties, (and the rest of the diy resident "stoidi") Garfield here, reporting in from the Black Forest. Me & the elves have been working on some WORDS you might have heard in the past: EGOR & ION. Now that we're FINALLY moving into our new corp. facilities, I've just re-enlisted to begin the rollout of some products we'll be offering relating to these two probly long-lost threads. To wit: EGOR-the-module EGOR-the-meter IONeyes EGOR-the-module is the interface between a Honda/NTK 5-wire current-pump UEGO2 sensor (has also been tested on the new Toyota 4-wire current-pump sensor, but those are still toooo spendy), and EGOR-the-meter is a Precision AFRmeter built around same. IONeyes is of course that slinky technology (but now with a new design that's non-infringing on the SAAB patents :) for measuring pre/post-IGN ionization, for use in accurate misfire & detonation detection, as well as potentially in the future (nobody appears to have it quite worked out yet for field deployment; we sure don't), measurement of cylinder AFR. Sadly, ION is still only working on the "bench" (a 1.8L boxer), since we've had to concentrate on EGOR first (installing them neck-bolts isn't easy :) and somewhat neglect her, but she IS working quite nicely; she's just in an ungainly underhood mess at the moment. Shortly she'll be all dressed up for her debut; mostly what remains is for her to just get dressed anyway. Packaging is a highly under-appreciated art, ya know. Meanwhile, her stout companion EGOR has become a world traveller, after trips to Tempsylvania, Boostville, and other NAsty places, in order to disprove rumors of his possible inability to handle the rigors of 'travel'. We'll be providing some nice graphs of our test results, to demonstrate his INdependence from these environmental influences. The meter is actually being made by another company (an international mfg. company based near Seattle), and we're being allowed to sell the modules and reference design plans into the hobbyist market (which they are loath to have to deal with), as long as we don't compete with their Proformance precision AFRmeter products. The meter, BTW, is expected to kick major butt in that market, since it's price-point is aimed in the $$hundreds, not the $$thousands of 'competitor' products. Since there are significant differences between the module and the meter, I thot to briefly describe them below: EGOR-the-module works just like an NTK "interface", in that it's outputs are a curve [which is NOT linearized thru stoich, but nearly linear on either side of it; if you've read the NTK SAE paper, you know whadamean]. The meter OTOH hand, will have a fully linearized output, stoich-switching O2 sensor simulation (complete with a trick ECU level/impedance matching ability, to satisfy pretty much any ECU's expectations during cold-start and failure diagnostic tests), a basic datalogging serial output, and on-the-fly AFR tuning capability. There will almost certainly be fancier follow-on models that emphasize the logging features, and alternate fueling support. PLANS for various circuitry you can license on a PERSONAL USE ONLY basis from us (AirSIG), will allow you to layer any number of features on top of your EGOR module, whether you're building instrumentation OR an engine management system. This includes the simulation stuff and the ECU matching circuitry. The module and the plans licenses will be separately priced, and altho the module contains a trick programmable analog part you WON'T be able to clone (just pointing this out to any resident pirates), you WILL be required to sign a non-disclosure and licensing agreement. Those of you who were with us before, know the reason for this, given the public threats made to build EGORs for profit, once the design was handed out freely. Well, as a result of that, it's no longer gonna be freely handed out, but to those of yous guys on the nice side of my naughtyNnice list, it's gonna be next to nuthin anyway, so not-to-worry. If you should damage your EGOR module and need to have it replaced/repaired, I will know from the signature programmed into it, who it's licensed to, so I hope with these measures, we can flip off the pirates and go on our merry way without them. Time will tell. Plans for building ION-based IGN systems will also be offered, once we can work out with our mfg. arm/host what/how they wanna offer their own built products in this area. So it will probly be late this year before that stuff becomes available to hobbyists. Lastly, EGOR-the-module pricing and availability have NOT been set (well, we know what they are, but we're not tellin just yet), since the meter company hasn't announced when nor how much $$ THEIR product will actually roll out (I expect it will be late 2nd quarter, or early 3rd), and WE have just begun the move, so it will probly realistically be another month or two before we can start selling the modulesNplans to ya. But she's FINALLY comin around the mountain. Meanwhile, I'll monitor the list for any technical questions and feature suggestions you might want me to pass along to the Precision AFRmeter mfg. I'd also like to hear any discussion about what sorts of circuitry PLANS y'all might think would be needed (and priorities, please) to layer on the hobbyist type features. Oh, and BTW, I'm STILL having to use those pricey Mitsubishi coils for the ION proto, so the quest is still very much on for less expensive 4-terminal IGN coils. If anyone's run across other candidates during the hiatus, do lemme know. On a completely unrelated front (well, sorta), our eXperimental aircraft corp. has had a fully functional KISS EFI (555-type based) S-D system upNrunning for over a year, which we refer to as KEFI, awaiting the move into our new facilities, to allow offering those to the eXperimental Aviation crowd. License-able PLANS for that system, which includes a programmable-slope linear advance curve for a companion DIS IGN system we call KIGN (for KISS IGN, of course) will shortly be available. All it takes to use it on boosted setups is one CAL resistor change, and a diff. MAP sensor. ALL the parts are off-the-shelf or low-cost OEM. Be happy to discuss that system with ya as well. Garfield Willis (*friends* call me Gar) AirSIG, Inc. Castle AFB/Airport 2810 Propeller Place Atwater, CA 95301 209-385-9760 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 13:54:39 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: SAAB DI coils - was Re: "ION" information ... The patent 4862093 has a schematic will it Grumpy > So, is this the same DI system with the ION sense circuitry? > If so, has anyone published the actual schematic for one of > these units? > > JCsDOOR@xxx.com wrote: > > > If you pull the cover off a Saab di you will find 4 coils that > > unplug and can be used for other apps. > > Jim crance > > Ps I still have my cone hat > > -- > Peter Gargano peter@xxx.au > Ph: +61 2 6251 5519 Fax: +61 2 6251 6646 > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 13:59:42 -0400 From: "Peter D. Hipson" Subject: RE: BMFC, Tiiming, and Coatings And when the paint all flakes off, and ends up in the oil pan... At 09:55 PM 5/14/99 -0700, you wrote: >here's a thought, has anyone ever given any thought to painting the inside >of an engine ? before you hit delete, consider how easy it is for dirt etc >to stick to the inside of the block, under a microscope the surface must be >like velcro. I suspect oil would return a little quicker to the pan. just a >thought, you can flame me now. > Thanks, Peter Hipson (founder, NEHOG) 1995 White NA Hummer Wagon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 12:00:26 -0700 From: Don Holtz Subject: Re: Yet another O2 sensor fakeout trick Even the voltage drop across a diode is a function of current: i=Io * EXP (-v/Vo) It is true that for forward currents around the designed operating level, most diodes have a voltage drop about .7volts, but this is only a very very crude first approximation. But for a very small forward currents the diode will have a very small voltage drop, certainly much less than .7volts. I suspect that, since the O2 sensor is a high-impedance voltage source, putting a diode in series with it will not cause a nice predictable voltage drop. If you want to test your idea you could try this instead, and use a more refined technique once it all works: Use a 1.5V AA battery, and a high impedance voltage divider: ------------------------------> TO ECM. | 100kohm | 100kohm ---------o---/\/\/\/\--o---/\/\/\/\--o | | | | | | | - -------- | | | | | | -------------| |------------- | O2 | + | | - | | | - -------- 1.5V (AA) | | GND The 1.5V battery and 100kOhm divider combination create a floating .75volt voltage drop. The polarity of the voltage drop can be changed by reversing the battery connection. The voltage drop that is created has an impedance of 50kOhm which is much lower than the O2 sensore impedance (approx 10Mohm), and the 100kohm resistors will not drain the battery too quickly. Just an idea! Cheers, Don At 08:31 AM 5/15/99 EDT, you wrote: >>Thinking about trying yet another trick. I just can't leave this one thing >>alone. I would really like to get rid of my 5th injector. The fuel line is >>touching several items on the motor and I am afraid it might chap and >>spring a leak. Also it doesn't look very professional anyway. And the fact >I> am sure the injectors will provide enough fuel if I could just boost the >>pulse rate up a bit. > >>Here's my plan. > >>Since my pressure switch has three poles, I can wire it up with a resistor >>in parallel. > >>When I hit the boost zone, the O2 sensor's output which is either .8 volts >>or .9 volts, however if I place a resistor between this circuit which >>brings the voltage down to .1 volts the computer will think the engine is >>running lean and increase the pulse rate trying to catch up. > >>The trick will be to find the right resistance to create such a voltage >drop. > >>I know there is a formula somewhere. What size resistor do I need to drop >>the voltage from .9 to .1 volts? > >>I am also assuming if I need a little more fuel, I can increase the >>resistance some more. > > James > I'm no wizard in solid state , but I know that almost all silicon diodes >have a forward voltage drop of about 3/4 volt. So, if you put one in series >with a circuit drawing current, it will "drop" that voltage. That way you >wont need to contend with the voltage divider, which will be current >dependent. > > Jerry > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 14:19:55 -0500 From: Clarence Wood Subject: Re: Rosie, K-Mart, Guns, & EFI Gosh! I didn't think anything could ruffle Greg's feathers! (:> I agree 100% with your statements! At 06:04 PM 5/14/99 -0600, you wrote: >Fellow DIYer's-- > >>From another list-- > >Rosie O'Donnell's commented: >"I don't care if you think it's your right. I say: Sorry, it's 1999. >We have had enough as a nation. >You are not allowed to own a gun, and if you do own a >gun I think you should go to prison. " >-- Talk-show host and Kmart spokesperson, Rosie O'Donnell > >You should read Claire Wolfe's rejoinder at >http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_cwolfe/19990513_xccwo_so_rosie_y.shtml >------------------ >I , speaking as an American citizen, and a potential juror, believe that >Rosie's statement might well be treasonous! And, as a responsible citizen, >I know the nature of the penalties which our Constitution enumerates as >being appropriate for the crime of Treason! > >I have already called the K-Mart customer service 800 line, which is listed >at the url above, and informed them, quite politely, that neither I, nor >any members of my family, nor any others whom I can persuade to do so based >on Rosie's, in my opinion treasonous, statements will be buying ANYTHING AT >ALL from K-Mart until such time as they fire Rosie, and repudiate any >association with her statements in the firmest possible manner. > >I am also about to call the Denver TV station which airs Rosie to inform >them that I will be boycotting all products advertised on ANY of their >shows that I happen to watch until such time as they stop airing Rosie's >show on their station! > >Required EFI content: > >If you do not think that such blatantly fascist, Nazi tactics could also be >used to outlaw the possession or use of high performance, EFI automobiles, >or to regulate or restrict recreational pastimes, all in the name of the >greater public good, think again! > >Please act according to your own conscience on this one, and apologies for >using the bandwidth, but I have a feeling that there are a lot of us here >who, as I do, value liberty, and its preservation far more than personal >safety. I believe that it is well past time to demonstrate to those who >think otherwise that those of us who feel that way represent a very "high >level demographic" in the consuming, money spending public! > >Thanks for your time! > >Regards, Greg > >"Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed >out of a tube" > -Hunter S. Thompson > >"'Necessity' is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is >the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." - William Pitt, 1783 > > > IZCC #3426 1982 280ZX Turbo GL 1966 El Camino 1982 Yamaha Maxim XJ-1101J Motorcycle 1975 Honda CB750 SS (black engine) 1986 Snapper Comet lawn mower Clarence Wood Software&Such... clarencewood@xxx.net Savannah, TN. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 15:30:16 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: O2 sensor fakeouts Greetings, I haven't been keeping up with many of these threads, but I noticed that the O2 fakeout diagrams I've seen posted here still had the O2 sensor... are the purpose of the diagrams to "adjust" the output of the O2 sensor on a live vehicle? Or, are they for testing an ECM on a bench? Because if its the latter, you don't need the sensor obviously, and a 5 or 10 turn 100K pot and a D battery would do the trick nicely. D cell + ----> --\ / 100k 5 or 10 turn pot \ / <------- to o2 sensor wire on ECM \ / D cell - --0--> --\ | | ground Or, have I once again missed the point? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 13:39:05 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: BMFC, Tiiming, and Coatings >Glyptal is an epoxy paint used in electric motors and is mentioned in >several engine books I have. Makes interior of block pretty red >color. >Shannen > >Stowe, Ted-SEA wrote: >> >> here's a thought, has anyone ever given any thought to painting the inside >> of an engine ? before you hit delete, consider how easy it is for dirt etc >> to stick to the inside of the block, under a microscope the surface must be >> like velcro. I suspect oil would return a little quicker to the pan. just a >> thought, you can flame me now. POR-15 is also recommended by the mfgr for the inside of blocks. Painting them is wise--condensation does happen in there! Greg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 16:02:17 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: O2 voltz For the lack of anything else to do, I hooked the heated O2 up, and was looking at the voltage drop across a sensor resistor, I been thinking of using. As the heater warmed up, the voltage drop across the resistor changed, just meaning the heater was drawing less current. I had hooked the scope probe across the O2, and cold there was no output, to be expected, but as it warmed up the output swung toward, .2v. Just in atmospheric conditions. Ok, so then it should go way high in pure O2 right, nope went a little over .3, and stopped there. Did I need to load the sensor?. The heater doesn't go to a high enough temperature for the O2 to fully swing high?. Does the engine side need to see a slight amount of pressure to reference to?. Grumpy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 16:09:22 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: O2 voltz At 04:02 PM 5/15/99 -0400, you wrote: >For the lack of anything else to do, I hooked the heated O2 up, and was >looking at the voltage drop across a sensor resistor, I been thinking of >using. > As the heater warmed up, the voltage drop across the resistor changed, >just meaning the heater was drawing less current. > I had hooked the scope probe across the O2, and cold there was no output, >to be expected, but as it warmed up the output swung toward, .2v. Just in >atmospheric conditions. Ok, so then it should go way high in pure O2 right, >nope went a little over .3, and stopped there. > Did I need to load the sensor?. > The heater doesn't go to a high enough temperature for the O2 to fully >swing high?. > Does the engine side need to see a slight amount of pressure to reference >to?. Bad thing about O2 sensors is they aren't truly O2 sensors... they are HC sensors. In pure O2, the sensor should keep a low voltage. In an environment rich with HC (IE propane, unburnt fuel etc) they should go .9-1 Volt. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #285 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".