DIY_EFI Digest Thursday, May 20 1999 Volume 04 : Number 296 In this issue: More Lists Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: EGOR, ION, Trionic Re: O2 Volts Re: Limited cooling space Re: O2 Volts Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: Mr Helmholz - simple model Re: 1227749 Re: Mr Helmholz - simple model Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: Mr Helmholz - simple model Re: VE tables Opel Omega Diagnostic Conector Re: Mr Helmholz - simple model Re: 1227749 Re: 1227749 Re: 1227749 Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: Mr Helmholz - simple model Re: New Person Re: Mr Helmholz - simple model Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: 1227749 See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 19:51:47 +1000 From: "Geffro" Subject: More Lists Hi folks Would anyone have more mailing lists to recommend? While I enjoy this list about 98% of this I dont understand and I am looking for something still to do with engine management systems but maybe closer related to the repair of these systems rather than reprogramming Cheers Geoff ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 06:54:25 EDT From: ECMnut@xxx.com Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi My friend has raced NHRA SuperStock since it was born in the 60's, and he told me that if his big block chebbie didn't have at least two car lengths on a Hemi at half track, the race was lost by the time they reached the finish line. The Hemi's top end charge put the other V8s to shame. Mike V In a message dated 5/19/99 10:59:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jimd@xxx.ca writes: > > Ever notice how the 427 wedge's (Chevy Ford Chry) all sound different than > all > > other engines????same for 440's... Then there's the Hemi... you can sure > pick up > > their song in a crowd. Nuff said > > > In the latest Automobile Quarterly there is an article which mentions dyno > development at Mopar on the 426. Apparently the dyno engines headers > dumped into a high stack, no mufflers. They said the whole area knew > when they were playing with them, especially when they were packed > tight. They even mention some of the early engines, both developmental and > production. First I have seen about the A16, a 6 cylinder development > engine, and also a "330 inch" v8 [A182] developmental engine which ran in > 1948. Heck, they even mention the 2220 although not too accurately. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 05:55:40 -0700 From: garfield@xxx.com (Gar Willis) Subject: Re: EGOR, ION, Trionic On Wed, 19 May 1999 15:39:01 -0700, garfield@xxx.com (Gar Willis) wrote: >HEY! I have a ton of these in BOTH early and late variety. $20ea + >shipping and their yours, to anyone who wants one. Course they're >unpotted. B) GEEZ, what have I done to myself!! NO NO NO, I didn't mean to type "unpotted". They ARE still in their original POTTED state. Golly, my apologies for totally munging that one. Dang. That's of course why later on in the original post, I mentioned trying your unpotting skills and the chemicals, an all that. Argh. Garputz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:53:32 -0400 From: Jay Wallace Subject: Re: O2 Volts At 02:03 AM 5/20/99 -0400, you wrote: >rr wrote: >> >> >> Bruce Wrote: snip... >> Response's to different gases: >> >> propane: rapid and long lasting, > 850mv. >> R12: light response, quick to return to nominal, ~475mv. >> acetylene: rapid and long lasted, > 750mv. >> hold breath, breath through tube into can: no effect... >> argon: light response, very short lived: ~70mv. >> contact cleaner: medium response, ~650mv. >> (tricloroethane + diclorodifluoromethane) >> >> (couldn't find any butane) >> >> Thinking about this, it makes sense. Once you reach stoich (450mv), >> how can you go higher? Only if the excess hc takes it there... >> >> The argon response, or lack thereof, is interesting. >You didn't report on the duration of the gas "shot". Not sure it >matters, but I would have left whatever gas "running" for a fixed >amount of time in the can. Or better yet, continously until end of >test. Methinks I may have been motivated enough to do my own >experiments. >Shannen I wouldn't be surprised if Shannen is on the right track here: Ar is heavier (denser) than air so it would sink to the bottom of whatever container that it is flowing into. You would need to flow long enough to displace all of the air before the tip of the sensor was surrounded by Ar. One more thing that should be emphasized: a standard oxygen sensor is just an electrochemical cell with the output voltage proportional to the difference in oxygen concentration between the inside and outside (for a constant temperature) as long as the zirconia is hot enough to conduct. The output voltage is given by the Nernst equation. I _think_ that all of the experimental observations are consistent with this. Jay ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:31:25 -0500 From: Clarence Wood Subject: Re: Limited cooling space I used the same technique on my intercooler (1982 Nissan 280ZX turbo). I forced the air to travel across the top and then back across the bottom by putting a baffle in the inlet tank and also moving the outlet tube to the inlet tank past the baffle. The original design had the inlet at the top on one side and the outlet at the top on the other side. I was told that because of the air force that would be generated the original design was better; I just could not 'see' the air being cooled. I have ran several tests and the cooling aspect is very, very good; I am running the boost at 12psi and have no serious turbo lag or any other breathing problem. At 03:45 PM 5/19/99 -0400, you wrote: >> The way I see it, the coolant now "sees" a radiator that is 1/3 as high and >> 3 times longer. Why does this cool better than normal. The log delta T is >> the same, no? Is it a flow turbulence thing? That is the only change I >> see. > >Here would be my guess... > >If you increase the width of the radiator, the coolant has to move >further to reach the other side and be sucked back into the system, >therefore its exposed to the ambient (and hopefully cooler) air >temperature, which reduces the temperature of the coolant going back >in. > >While my dilbert-cube-mates think I'm insane, I just tried something >that you can do that will illustrate the point. > >Run the hot water on your faucet for a few minutes, until the >temperature is constant. Stick a thermometer into a coffee mug, then >fill it with hot water. Record temperature. > >Then, using a second thermometer, or cool off the first one to room >temperature, repeat the experiment, however use the hose with the >spray gun, which typically has 5-6 feet of hose under it. The >temperature in the mug is consistantly 5-6 degrees colder. I did this >3 times to make sure. > >Longer hose, more distance traveled, more energy (heat) lost or >radiated into "space". > >-- > >Frederic Breitwieser >Bridgeport CT 06606 > >1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental >1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy >1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos >2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) > > IZCC #3426 1982 280ZX Turbo GL 1966 El Camino 1982 Yamaha Maxim XJ-1101J Motorcycle 1975 Honda CB750 SS (black engine) 1986 Snapper Comet lawn mower Clarence Wood Software&Such... clarencewood@xxx.net Savannah, TN. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 08:01:25 -0700 From: "soren" Subject: Re: O2 Volts Varying the amounts of HC, CO, >CO2, and NOx don't affect the sensor. Only O2 quantity in relation to >the sensor's reference changes voltage. TPS senses TP whether output >voltage increases or decreases with increased throttle angle. Why do >you think an "inverted" output from the O2 sensor makes it a Not O2 >sensor? A TPS has a supply voltage that can be modulated in either increasing or decreasing fashion with increasing throttle angle, but the O2 sensor has to make its own voltage. My simple logic led me to the conclusion that the compound that is being actually being sensed must be the one that provides this positive voltage. Then I remembered that the O2 sensor is actually a differential sensor, like you said: it provides voltage based on the differential between the outside reference air and the gases in the exhaust. So my new hypothesis is that the sensor is sensing O2, but it actually produces voltage from the reference oxygen; when it is compared to an oxygen-poor environment in an exhaust stream, there is a voltage differential across the ion-sensing electrodes, and the voltage produced at the reference side goes up the signal wire. When the O2 is even on both sides, no voltage is produced. Of course, this would only apply to the zirconium type O2 sensors, the titanium dioxide ones do actually use a reference voltage and act as a variable resistor. So now what I want to see is someone test a sensor using sealed chambers for both reference and exhaust sides, using O2, HCs, an inert gas such as argon, and another gas containing negative ions (maybe one of the halogens) as a control. :-p Soren ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:44:58 -0700 From: ".." Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Well, I raced SuperStock in the 60's, and during 1964-1966 used the Plymouth 2 door bodys and a 426 wedge (1964) -13:1 cr version - and then 426 Hemi's in the same body shell (1965/1966). With the Torqueflite transmissions supplied by Chrysler it was next to impossible for a Chev or Ford to get even a half a car length out of the hole (unless the Mopar driver was asleep at the wheel) much less get ahead down the track. This changed during the latter part of 1965 when the "funny cars" (altered wheel bases) became common - then it depended on how much the cg was shifted rather then primarily on useable horsepower. The factory wedges and hemi's were very well prepped before you got them - all you basically could do was jet them for the conditions at the track for that day. Any nitwit (looking back I probably fell easily into that category) that could come up with $3400 (in 1964 - a bit more later) and who's dealer would swear that the customer was an active drag racer (previously I was sponsored by a Ford Dealer and ran a '62 427 Ford) could get one of these packages. And these WERE complete packages (engines offset to the right, large heavy batteries in the trunk for traction, dana 60 rear ends, no dum-dum sealer for weight reduction, lightweight upholstery, aluminum front ends, etc) They even had a number of yellow warning labels in and about the car stating the car was meant for racing application only and not for sale for street/highways -words to that effect. Running against another Mopar user was only a test of your tuning ability and reaction time as the cars were unbelievably identical (Dodge or Plymouth). Break something (popping a valve through a piston, although very infrequent, did happen) your dealer then called a number at Chrysler and a new long block would appear by magic around mid-week so you were ready for the next weekend. My own "driver" was a 427 vette at the time so it wasn't a case of being a die-hard Chrysler fan - it was only a case of being practical (sponsor money was necessary even back then!!!). I vividly remember a slogan at the time: "Want something with a belt in the back (referring to clothing) then buy a ______ (fill in the blank - Dodge/Plymouth)" as no matter how many times you went down the track you were NEVER ready for those 2-3 shifts, they'd snap your head EVERY single time. rap ECMnut@xxx.com wrote: > My friend has raced NHRA SuperStock since it was born in the 60's, > and he told me that if his big block chebbie didn't have at least two > car lengths on a Hemi at half track, the race was lost by the time they > reached the finish line. The Hemi's top end charge put the other V8s > to shame. > Mike V > > In a message dated 5/19/99 10:59:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jimd@xxx.ca > writes: > > > > Ever notice how the 427 wedge's (Chevy Ford Chry) all sound different > than > > all > > > other engines????same for 440's... Then there's the Hemi... you can > sure > > pick up > > > their song in a crowd. Nuff said > > > > > In the latest Automobile Quarterly there is an article which mentions dyno > > development at Mopar on the 426. Apparently the dyno engines headers > > dumped into a high stack, no mufflers. They said the whole area knew > > when they were playing with them, especially when they were packed > > tight. They even mention some of the early engines, both developmental and > > production. First I have seen about the A16, a 6 cylinder development > > engine, and also a "330 inch" v8 [A182] developmental engine which ran in > > 1948. Heck, they even mention the 2220 although not too accurately. > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:24:04 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Mr Helmholz - simple model Will do ECMnut!, However, I didn't make it to the track last night for Test-n-Tune night, so will have to go to the heads up races on Fri evening!! Will red light BIG time in order to try n get at least a FAKE win over some stangies n birdies.... Will remove the airbox restriction, lower front tire pressure a bit remove spare, install NOS's new OFF-ROAD octane booster(Raises octane by 7 points!) The thing stalls at OVER 2,600 rpm! Thanks for the reference on the OEM E.T.'s... was gonna look that up, and forgot! Thanks for savin me the time! I'll try n find a REALLY light person to run er down the track, every 100 lbs. is supposed to be .1 in the quarter, so IF the R&T had a 300 lb driver I may have a chance at 16's with a 100 lb driver, ya think? What else can I do... If I hit 85 mph, the engine will cut do to some sorta MPH limiter in the computer! It REALLY sucks I tell ya! ALSO, if this engine EVER breaks, It'll probably end up gettin some sorta V8 (360, 440, 426 hemi) crate engine from Mopar!! That will be a cool day... Tubs will accomodate the V8 as well... I can dream can't I.... plus the LAW is that the engine in the car must be at least as new as the car itself, so as ong as I install a crate engine which is at least a 97 or newer engine, I'm within the law!! COOL?!?!!?? LATER! Todd....!! http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/toddlnk.htm ECMnut@xxx.com wrote: > > Todd, > if that 4 banger Stratus gives you a 16 second timeslip, it's > much stronger than the 17.50 that R&T got ~ a year ago. > Let us know how it turns out. > Mike V > > In a message dated 5/19/99 5:28:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, atc347@xxx.net > writes: > > > > > $160+ per month for gas for the Bee vs. MAX $60/month for gas for the > > Stratus... > > > > If she breaks into the 16's this evenin, I'll be pretty happy! > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:28:20 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: 1227749 OK FRED!, WHERE'd ya pick up a hummer at? The local army resale shop? KU-WAIT, Saudi? Where? D'ya get a good deal? I want one? What engine is in the hummer again? I can't remember what ya said? 440? That's SOOOO COOL! Do ya have any pics of it on the web? If so, what's the web add...? LATER! Todd....!! Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > Thanks for the specs on your rail man! > > No problem. People have helped me, I help others, and it all works out > in the end. > > > of your posts? Is it a HUMVIE/HUMMER like Arnold Shwarezzeneggerrrr > > drives? or what? > > Yes, minus the leather, stereo, and original diesel engine. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:17:14 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Mr Helmholz - simple model Never heard that one, will check with some other buds and see if this is a true tuning trick! Sounds logical to me... Now then, where'd I put that Helmholz model so I can test this theory, lol... BTW, since we're on the subject of exhaust and tunin it, have any of you's heard of a crossover BOX? I believe I heard a Stang with one, it sounded TOTALLY FUTURISTIC!! I've NEVER heard a car sound like that... It sounded like a car would sound if it were on TV in the year 2030 or so... I wanna try n make my Bee sound that wired, that is, if it's efficient n all... Thanks again for the tidbit about the crossover tunin! Todd....!! - ------------- Ord Millar wrote: > > I have heard exactly the same for an H-Pipe. Paint it, and where the paint > has blistered up is where the crossover needs to go. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Todd....!! > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > Date: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 6:20 PM > Subject: Re: Mr Helmholz - simple model > > >The way I was taught to roughly but effectively 'tune' my exhaust system > >on my 4 stroke v-8's engine's is to bolt about a 2 or 3 foot pipe to the > >header collector paint it black with some spray paint (preferably BEFORE > >installing the pipe) then do a run down the strip... > > > >After runnin the car at WOT for a 1/4, there will be a point on the > >'tuning' pipe where the paint has been burned off, and a point further > >up towards the header where the paint isn't burnt at all! > > > >At the point where the paint begins being burnt is where ya cut the > >pipe.. Whalaa instantly tuned exhaust... > > > >I've never heard a technical explanation of why this works or even if it > >helps or hurts or is just a guess at the correct length of exhaust > >pipe... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 12:13:57 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi I've never actually RACED a HEMI(Drove it on the track) but my buddy cruises all over Houston in his 68 Race Hemi Cuda, I believe it's one of the 50 made... He's rich and owns a LOT of Hemi and 440 6-pak cars... Anyhoo.. I believe ya, the Hemi heads really flow alot, even in stock form, add that to the shape of the combustion chamber and where the spark plug(s) are located within the cylinder and you have one power packin pachyderm! A guy in another forum that I frequent VERY often is in the process of purchasing a flow bench from a guy that's goin outa business, maybe he'll do some flow testin of some hemi stuff... I know the Hemi has been flow tested to DEATH, but this guy has REALLY unique ideas and the money to follow up with researchin those ideas, ya know! right now matter of fact he's usin 427 Ford pistons in a 383 Mopar block with I dunno WHAT kinda crank to build some sorta trick engine, he's writing up an article about the build, takin all the pics of the build and hopes to get the thang published in some mag, pretty cool, ey? LATER! Todd.... - ------------ ECMnut@xxx.com wrote: > > My friend has raced NHRA SuperStock since it was born in the 60's, > and he told me that if his big block chebbie didn't have at least two > car lengths on a Hemi at half track, the race was lost by the time they > reached the finish line. The Hemi's top end charge put the other V8s > to shame. > Mike V > > In a message dated 5/19/99 10:59:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jimd@xxx.ca > writes: > > > > Ever notice how the 427 wedge's (Chevy Ford Chry) all sound different > than > > all > > > other engines????same for 440's... Then there's the Hemi... you can > sure > > pick up > > > their song in a crowd. Nuff said > > > > > In the latest Automobile Quarterly there is an article which mentions dyno > > development at Mopar on the 426. Apparently the dyno engines headers > > dumped into a high stack, no mufflers. They said the whole area knew > > when they were playing with them, especially when they were packed > > tight. They even mention some of the early engines, both developmental and > > production. First I have seen about the A16, a 6 cylinder development > > engine, and also a "330 inch" v8 [A182] developmental engine which ran in > > 1948. Heck, they even mention the 2220 although not too accurately. > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 12:18:33 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Mr Helmholz - simple model Gary, All good questions, don't really know the answer, may try the high temp paint deal when at the track next time and let ya know what happens between usin the high temp vs the regular Krylon type spray paint.. As for rpm's, ya just paint the tube bolt it on, go thru the 1/4, check the tube for where it's burnt, maybe try it a couple different times...just to be sure, then cut the tube... The rpm's aren't held constant unless you have some sorta newfangled clutch setup like the top fuelers have that hold their rpm's at PEAK power the whole run! THAT would be nice!! The throttle position IS held constant however, at WOT, that is.... LATER....!! Todd....!! Gary Derian wrote: > > Doesn't cutting the collector change the standing waves and therefore the > place where you want to cut it. Maybe an iterative process. I have no > technical explanation for this either. I don't know why pressure waves > would cause the paint to burn. What if you had high temp paint that didn't > burn, or low temp paint that burned all over? Do you have to hold a > constant rpm? > > Gary Derian > > > I have heard exactly the same for an H-Pipe. Paint it, and where the > paint > > has blistered up is where the crossover needs to go. > > > > > > > > >The way I was taught to roughly but effectively 'tune' my exhaust system > > >on my 4 stroke v-8's engine's is to bolt about a 2 or 3 foot pipe to the > > >header collector paint it black with some spray paint (preferably BEFORE > > >installing the pipe) then do a run down the strip... > > > > > >After runnin the car at WOT for a 1/4, there will be a point on the > > >'tuning' pipe where the paint has been burned off, and a point further > > >up towards the header where the paint isn't burnt at all! > > > > > >At the point where the paint begins being burnt is where ya cut the > > >pipe.. Whalaa instantly tuned exhaust... > > > > > >I've never heard a technical explanation of why this works or even if it > > >helps or hurts or is just a guess at the correct length of exhaust > > >pipe... > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 12:32:40 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: VE tables Thanks for the additional info David, it's a TAD bit over my head however, I have NO experience in ANY of this except floorin the car and hopin it GOES! If it doesn't then it's either the points went bad(wore out) or the coil went out, or I'm outa gas, or the carb's floats are stickin or somethin simple like that... NO computerized equipment on my Superbee til this past two months, I FINALLY threw the ECU and electronic distributor in the engine(It had been floatin around the back seat for several months..) Left the points distributor in the trunk 'just in case'.... LATER! Todd....!! P.S. - I was thinkin of throwin an O2 sensor in the Bee's exhaust system, maybe one on eash cyl, how much heat can these babies take before failure? and what are the differing voltages for different air/fuel ratios? I plan to merely hook up either some sorta diode bar graph monitors to the snesors or even merely a voltmeter.... maybe with an a/b switch to monitor different cylinders wiht the same gauge??? Any help here fella's? Thanks again! LATER! Todd....!! http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/toddlnk.htm David A. Cooley wrote: > > > > > Is your goal in reducing teh amount of fuel to find that fine line > > between extra fuel cooling teh conbustion vs. loadin up the cylinder > > with extra fuel? or what? Just wonderinnnnnnnn........ > > Just trying to tune for max performance... Superchips bumped the VE from > 85-90% to 100-105% through most of the upper RPM ranges... Mileage dropped > and setting PE VS RPM to 0% (from 10%) still has O2 voltages at ~900mv at > WOT. I had to go to about -15% before it dropped to the 800-850mv range... > Stock, the chip was too rich at WOT, now it's bunches richer. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 15:17:07 -0300 From: Aron Lopes Petrucci Subject: Opel Omega Diagnostic Conector Hi, I am "listening" this list for some time, since I bought EFI cars. I have two EFI cars, they are made in Brazil, by Chevrolet, following the original design by Opel (Germany) (with some litle changes, maybe). They are an Omega Sedan (1994) 2.0, and a Corsa (1998) 1.0. How I always make the services, only in my cars, by myself. I'm searching for technical information about it (in portuguese, english, french, spanish or italian; I don't understand anything in german). Specially about their EFI systems (Bosch Motronic, I think) and the diagnostic conector. I am thinking about an interface to PC. I found a conector in the Omega, wich I think that is the diagnostic conector, but it doesn't looks like an ALDL conector, in fact, I'm not sure if that conector with 10 pins (2 lines of five pins), positioned in the engine compartment, in a cable comming from the main cable of the EFI system, is the diagnostic conector. So, my questions are; if there are anybody in the world who can answer this. 1) where are the diagnostic conectors, in these two cars? 2) what are their pin functions? 3) what are the codes and the protocol to "talk" with the ECM? Thanx in advance Aron L. Petrucci aron@xxx.br Londrina - Pr Brazil. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:09:35 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: Mr Helmholz - simple model > However, I didn't make it to the track last night for Test-n-Tune night, > so will have to go to the heads up races on Fri evening!! Will red > light BIG time in order to try n get at least a FAKE win over some > stangies n birdies.... > > Will remove the airbox restriction, lower front tire pressure a bit > remove spare, install NOS's new OFF-ROAD octane booster(Raises octane by > 7 points!) Octane boost is a waste of money. When they claim 7 points they mean it raises 92 to 92.7 Most all octane boosters out there also use MMT which coats plugs, oxygen sensors, catalytic converters etc and does no good. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:25:37 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: 1227749 > WHERE'd ya pick up a hummer at? At a government auction near Los Angelos more or less. Bought two frame rails, a fender, the basic body shell, cut up, for $700 as scrap. Put it on a pallet, then sent it by rail to Philadelphia where I went down from newburgh NY with a 25' flatbed to pick up the pallet. > What engine is in the hummer again? I can't remember what ya said? 500 cid Caddy out of a 70 or 71 eldorado. Don't remember the year. > That's SOOOO COOL! Do ya have any pics of it on the web? Yep... but my firewall is finicky, so you can't see 'em at the moment. http://www.xephic.dynip.com/swamprat/index.html. When the firewall is fixed, you can check it out. I just never get to it. mail works :) - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:25:37 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: 1227749 > WHERE'd ya pick up a hummer at? At a government auction near Los Angelos more or less. Bought two frame rails, a fender, the basic body shell, cut up, for $700 as scrap. Put it on a pallet, then sent it by rail to Philadelphia where I went down from newburgh NY with a 25' flatbed to pick up the pallet. > What engine is in the hummer again? I can't remember what ya said? 500 cid Caddy out of a 70 or 71 eldorado. Don't remember the year. > That's SOOOO COOL! Do ya have any pics of it on the web? Yep... but my firewall is finicky, so you can't see 'em at the moment. http://www.xephic.dynip.com/swamprat/index.html. When the firewall is fixed, you can check it out. I just never get to it. mail works :) - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:25:37 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: 1227749 > WHERE'd ya pick up a hummer at? At a government auction near Los Angelos more or less. Bought two frame rails, a fender, the basic body shell, cut up, for $700 as scrap. Put it on a pallet, then sent it by rail to Philadelphia where I went down from newburgh NY with a 25' flatbed to pick up the pallet. > What engine is in the hummer again? I can't remember what ya said? 500 cid Caddy out of a 70 or 71 eldorado. Don't remember the year. > That's SOOOO COOL! Do ya have any pics of it on the web? Yep... but my firewall is finicky, so you can't see 'em at the moment. http://www.xephic.dynip.com/swamprat/index.html. When the firewall is fixed, you can check it out. I just never get to it. mail works :) - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:26:57 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi > Anyhoo.. I believe ya, the Hemi heads really flow alot, even in stock > form, add that to the shape of the combustion chamber and where the They also look cool and sound cool. However, they suck gas. Good candidate for EFI :) - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 15:00:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Ford Subject: Re: Mr Helmholz - simple model I was thinking ( rare but it does happen) when a standing wave is set up the exhaust would be moving slowwer (higher pressure). where the standing wave was there would be more of a heat buildup due to a slightly longer time in contact with the pipe. the standing wave would be related to the Helmholz model ( the wave could be caused by resonanse(sp?) so tying the two hotspots on the two collectors should help? by transffering the presure peaks between the 2 does that make any sense? I don't know how it works the the local engine guru in Kingston swears by it. Previously, you (Todd....!!) wrote: > Never heard that one, will check with some other buds and see if this is > a true tuning trick! > > Sounds logical to me... Now then, where'd I put that Helmholz model so I > can test this theory, lol... > > BTW, since we're on the subject of exhaust and tunin it, have any of > you's heard of a crossover BOX? I believe I heard a Stang with one, it > sounded TOTALLY FUTURISTIC!! I've NEVER heard a car sound like that... > > It sounded like a car would sound if it were on TV in the year 2030 or > so... > > I wanna try n make my Bee sound that wired, that is, if it's efficient n > all... > > Thanks again for the tidbit about the crossover tunin! > > Todd....!! > ------------- > > Ord Millar wrote: > > > > I have heard exactly the same for an H-Pipe. Paint it, and where the paint > > has blistered up is where the crossover needs to go. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Todd....!! > > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > > Date: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 6:20 PM > > Subject: Re: Mr Helmholz - simple model > > > > >The way I was taught to roughly but effectively 'tune' my exhaust system > > >on my 4 stroke v-8's engine's is to bolt about a 2 or 3 foot pipe to the > > >header collector paint it black with some spray paint (preferably BEFORE > > >installing the pipe) then do a run down the strip... > > > > > >After runnin the car at WOT for a 1/4, there will be a point on the > > >'tuning' pipe where the paint has been burned off, and a point further > > >up towards the header where the paint isn't burnt at all! > > > > > >At the point where the paint begins being burnt is where ya cut the > > >pipe.. Whalaa instantly tuned exhaust... > > > > > >I've never heard a technical explanation of why this works or even if it > > >helps or hurts or is just a guess at the correct length of exhaust > > >pipe... > > - -- Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 15:07:55 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: New Person Cool Jason, That's about all I'm doin in here as well! Watchin, learnin, brain tends to emit a LOT of smoke from readin some of these posts, It's like some sorta alien techno-wizardry is goin on in some sorta alien world or somethin, know what I mean??? LATER! Todd....!! SPECTRO COATING CORP. wrote: > > Hi - My name is Jason & I recently started subscibing to this list. > > I'm sure I will learn something here as my efi knowledge drops off a cliff > at the ECU connector.(going in - not out ;) > > My current projects are a V8 AWD S10 Blazer & an 8V-71 supercharged & > injected 440 Chrysler (on the engine stand). > > I'll hang out & watch for awhile. > > Thanks - J ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 15:38:53 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Mr Helmholz - simple model I understand what you're saying David, however, I have personal first hand experience on the benificial attributes of octane booster, 104+ to be exact... I took my 1972 Jaguar XJ455 to the test-n-tune night at the dragstrip quite a while back, it was the first time this car had been to the track with the 455 Buick engine in it... I ran a few runs doing various sorts of burnouts in order to get enough traction to make a pretty consistent and best E.T. of 14.6 at 89 mph. I THEN proceeded to put the 104+ octane booster in the tank shich already had 93 octane super unleaded in it, no other changes were made.... I then proceeded to not EVER gain traction for the rest of the night, about 5 runs in all with the octane boost in the tank, E.T. NEVER even dropped to mid 14's again! Due to wheel spin.... ALSO, I had a Rochester off of a 1970 Chev 350 truck on it as well as NO O2 sensors or any other sensors on that engine nor were there any Cats... It DOES have some QUITE puny lil 1 3/4 exhasut that came on the Jag from the factory for the straight 6 cylinders dual exhaust system. The oringinal 455's exhaust was 2.25 inch, I had to adapt it down in order to work with the already existing full dual exhaust on the Jag... I DID have spark plugs, but to this day I STILL have the same plugs in the thing.... No probs yet.. I DID install HEI between those runs and now, the car runs a LOT better with the HEI than it did with the points, I'm SURE that the HEI helped in saving the plugs from an earlier demise than the points ignition would've... ey? This IS first hand experience that I experienced with my VERY own eyes... ALSO, the 72 Buick engine probably had higher compression than most of the tiny/powerless engine's of today... I DID say 'MOST', not ALL, but 510 ft lbs. is QUITE a chunk of torque for ANY engine from the factory... Will post a couple of the slips from that night as soon as I find em.... Can't remember what the 60 or 660 ft times were, we'll see.... LATER! Todd....!! David A. Cooley wrote: > > > However, I didn't make it to the track last night for Test-n-Tune night, > > so will have to go to the heads up races on Fri evening!! Will red > > light BIG time in order to try n get at least a FAKE win over some > > stangies n birdies.... > > > > Will remove the airbox restriction, lower front tire pressure a bit > > remove spare, install NOS's new OFF-ROAD octane booster(Raises octane by > > 7 points!) > > Octane boost is a waste of money. When they claim 7 points they mean it > raises 92 to 92.7 > Most all octane boosters out there also use MMT which coats plugs, oxygen > sensors, catalytic converters etc and does no good. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 15:46:02 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Would your FI setup for the 440 intake bolt onto the 426 Hemi's intake? (i.e. are the runners located in the same position? I know the intake bolts are verticle on the hemi vs. the 440 has the angled intake bolts, but other than that, I've never noticed any diff? I'll probably use a RAT ROASTER when I inject my twin turbo 426 Hemi, how bout you? If ya think ya want some Hemi parts go to my link page at: http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/toddlnk.htm and go to the Swapmeet stuff, there's quite a bit of VERY TRICK HEMI stuff there for sale! Like Hemi Alum rods, 8 titanium keepers or retainers, can't remember which, gear drive, etc.. Some of this stuff is usable on our NON hemi BB Mopes... LATER! Todd....!! Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > Anyhoo.. I believe ya, the Hemi heads really flow alot, even in stock > > form, add that to the shape of the combustion chamber and where the > > They also look cool and sound cool. However, they suck gas. Good > candidate for EFI :) > > -- > > Frederic Breitwieser > Bridgeport CT 06606 > > 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental > 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy > 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos > 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 15:42:22 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: 1227749 OK Fred, HOW in the world didi ya find out when and where this auction was going to be? I'd pay $700 for a hummer shell! Did ya use the caddi transaxle and make IT a mid engine! or is it setup in the normal front engine rear wheel drive, or 4 wheel drive or what? MAN I can't WAIT to see them pics! Hope I can find this e-mail when your firewall's fixed! Lemme know when the firewall's fixed kay? LATER! Todd....!! http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/toddlnk.htm Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > WHERE'd ya pick up a hummer at? > > At a government auction near Los Angelos more or less. Bought two > frame rails, a fender, the basic body shell, cut up, for $700 as > scrap. Put it on a pallet, then sent it by rail to Philadelphia where > I went down from newburgh NY with a 25' flatbed to pick up the pallet. > > > What engine is in the hummer again? I can't remember what ya said? > > 500 cid Caddy out of a 70 or 71 eldorado. Don't remember the year. > > > That's SOOOO COOL! Do ya have any pics of it on the web? > > Yep... but my firewall is finicky, so you can't see 'em at the moment. > > http://www.xephic.dynip.com/swamprat/index.html. > > When the firewall is fixed, you can check it out. I just never get to > it. mail works :) > > -- > > Frederic Breitwieser > Bridgeport CT 06606 > > 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental > 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy > 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos > 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #296 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".