DIY_EFI Digest Sunday, May 23 1999 Volume 04 : Number 301 In this issue: Re: Message from CSH. HQ Re: Message from CSH. HQ Re: alternative engines, now Hemi RE: Simple Injection Questions Re: Message from CSH. HQ DIY FTP site Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: DIY FTP site Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: EGR? Re: Simple Injection Questions Re: Simple Injection Questions Re: DIY FTP site Re: DIY FTP site Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: DIY FTP site Re: DIY FTP site Re: DIY FTP site Re: DIY FTP site Where to start See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 07:40:19 -0700 From: rr Subject: Re: Message from CSH. HQ Bruce, our prayers will be with you, get well soon, we need you back. BobR. Bruce Plecan wrote: > > Well, since most of y'all, I'd call pals, and some friends, rather than > forgeting someone, I'll let y'all know whats going on, and this has no > EFI/automobile content. > Anytime after Tuesday, CSH, HQ maybe closed for a while, from 1 week to 3 > months, possibly longer. Lots of variables, but here are the biggies. > I need some new parts, and, I have been accepted as being a good host. > I'm waiting for a double lung transplant (monday is for final testing to > see, if the heart will be done, also). I have a genetic condition called > Alpha-1 Antitrysin Deficency, and the heart do to wear and tear from the > work caused by the Alpha-1.. > Also on Monday, I have a medical procedure to be done, and when the > results are back from those I'll be leaving home, room available to be > hospitialized for some extensive Physical Therapy, and the surgery, > depending on the donor situation at that time. > A couple folks have neighbor's phone number, and if anything major > happens, y'all will hear about it. > This may seem premature, but things have been a emotional roller coaster, > and I wanted to write this, before being to wrapped up in things, or > hurrying too much. > I have checks out to all, that I have commitments with, so just ship > things like normal, since things are not being abandened here. It will > probably will be a week from Tues before much happens but, I was put on > notice that the short term plans should be made for this, time table. > Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 08:58:59 EDT From: CEIJR@xxx.com Subject: Re: Message from CSH. HQ Bruce: I'll look forward to resumption of your wonderful posts -- looking back on a terrifying experience rather than forward to it. Best wishes. Charlie Iliff ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 10:25:11 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi OK, you guys convinced me. My thought was that during the few milliseconds of flame travel, less heat would be absorbed by the head and piston. It stands to reason that the amount of heat actually absorbed during this period is very small. Once the flame front has passed and the power stroke begins, the threat of detonation has passed. Gary Derian > At 10:05 PM 5/21/99 -0400, Gary Derian wrote: > >Engine research using ceramics is headed toward an adiabatic engine. That > >is one which needs no cooling system. This keeps the fire hotter during the > >power stroke since no heat is absorbed by a cooling system. I would think > >this would actually increase propensity for detonation. > > My *guess* is it's the other way around, at least in a 4 stroke. The > inside of the combustion chamber will be hotter right after the burn > than it would be in a metal engine, due to the lower heat capacity > and higher thermal resistance. But by the same token, the incoming > charge will be able to cool those same surfaces more than if they > had a low thermal resistance path to a big mass of hot, high heat > capacity metal. > > I know a couple of people have reported reduced detonation with some > of the diy coatings. Has anyone had the opposite result? > > Chris C. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 10:50:19 -0400 From: "Chew, Aaron" Subject: RE: Simple Injection Questions I have no 1st hand experience. I've read that it is tricky and that the initial throttle opening doesn't provide good resolution, i.e., small throttle changes produce big engine load changes. A know of a BMW M3 person who converted from a vane flap meter to alpha-N who was pleased after a lot of tweaking and solving idle issues. I'm thinking about converting to alpha-N for my next project. Aaron - -----Original Message----- From: Christopher J Beasley [mailto:chris_beasley@xxx.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 1999 10:09 PM To: Subject: Re: Simple Injection Questions So you can actually do OK just with those two things? Would it be as good as or better than a carb? b Chew, Aaron wrote: > Alpha-n is a throttle-position and rpm fuel map control strategy. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher J Beasley [mailto:chris_beasley@xxx.com] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 1999 1:43 PM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: Simple Injection Questions > > Gary Derian wrote: > > > I think a single cylinder engine will have a very discontinuous air flow > > which effectively eliminates MAP and MAF. The simplest system I can think > > of is alpha-n, rpm and throttle position. It can be mapped to a lookup > > Ok, MAP/MAF = manifold air pressure/flow right?What's alpha-n? > > > table and then corrected for temperature and exhaust O2. But why do you > > insist on closed loop? As far as I know, that is most useful for making a > 3 > > way cat work. Without a cat, you actually want a lean cruise and rich PE. > > Neither of which are well indicated with a normal O2 sensor. > > What's PE? The reason I want some sort of closed loop is that in bike > applications, people are always changing things like different exhaust, air > filters, modified airbox, etc. I want the injection system to compensate > and > I've been instructed that MAF with O2 will compensate for modifications like > this. > > > > > > > To answer your second question, no, you don't need to include ignition > > timing although there are advantages associated with electronic spark > > timing. > > Well, most bikes already have CDI now so it might be pretty easy to take > over > triggering. What are the advantages/disadvantages? > Thanks! > Beez ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 08:41:06 -0700 From: "Steve" Subject: Re: Message from CSH. HQ Good luck Bruce, Hope to see your posts again real soon! Steve - -----Original Message----- > Anytime after Tuesday, CSH, HQ maybe closed for a while, from 1 week to 3 >months, possibly longer. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 13:23:37 -0400 From: "C. Brooks" Subject: DIY FTP site Can someone forward the directions for uploading a file to the FTP site? Thanks, Charles Brooks ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 10:37:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Davies Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi On Fri, 21 May 1999, Gary Derian wrote: > That was Polimotor. It used Torlon(R) for the block and heads but had steel > lined combustion chamber, exhaust port and cylinder. > Does anyone have a net source for more info? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 15:12:48 -0700 From: rr Subject: Re: DIY FTP site Sure, Fire up your browser and point it at: ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/incoming/ Once there, Do a alt-f (file menu), look for the entry that says 'Upload File...', click on that and follow the menus... (This is for Netscape). HTH BobR. C. Brooks wrote: > > Can someone forward the directions for uploading a file to the FTP site? > > Thanks, > > Charles Brooks ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 16:13:33 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi David A. Cooley wrote: > > At 02:28 PM 5/21/99 -0700, you wrote: > >Good'n Bill, ouch... > > > >What new CAR is even SOLD with a Rat these dayzzzz.... Anything?... > > > >Just wonderinnnnnnn.........!!!! > > Suburban's, pickups, tahoe's etc... And just because the ads say they are trucks, don't confuse them with the real thing. ; ) Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 14:06:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@xxx.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Re: EGR? - -> Exhaust is an inert gas as far as an engine is concerned. Not quite inert. It raises charge temps, which promotes better fuel atomization. It reduces pumping losses, which returns otherwise-lost horsepower. The added charge temp also changes the combustion characteristics of the intake charge, extending the early phases of combustion and reducing the later ones. As a secondary effect, generation of charge steam as end product is increased, extending the cylinder prsure curve and returning more "lost" horsepower. On fuel-injected GM V8 pickup trucks, disabling the EGR valve will cost 2-3 mpg, right off the top. The first test a line mechanic does when a customer brings a vehicle in with a lost-mileage complaint is an EGR valve test. - -> EGR is - -> used to reduce peak combustion chamber temps which limits the - -> formation of NOx. In the bad old days (1970's), EGR was added and - -> ignition timing was retarded. This combo made for badly running - -> engines. Back in ancient times, yes. Modern EGR control strategies are more sophisticated, and the engines aren't laboring under the burden of early, primitive emission control systems either. Many "EGR" complaints of the old days were actually due to secondary faults only peripherally related to the EGR itself. - -> I would not use EGR in a hot rod unless you are using a fuel injected - -> engine which already has a good EGR setup. Adding EGR to a carbureted engine can be difficult as it will drop the cruise vacuum *and* the air velocity across the venturis, which will result in a lean cruise mixture. It can be difficult to calibrate carburetors to handle this. However, many carbs run rich at cruise, such as the primitive Holley four barrels. You might fangle an O2 feedback to a PWM EGR valve and get a worthwhile return in fuel economy. ==dave.williams@xxx.us====================================== I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 07:39:28 +1000 From: Peter Gargano Subject: Re: Simple Injection Questions David A. Cooley wrote: > I blew a pair of Hemi mufflers off a 68 Pontiac Bonneville... Turned the key > off for about 2 secs while under way at 70MPH and when I cut the key back on > it blew the exhaust system apart! > Scared the hell out of me! I was trying to hitch a ride in Germany (about 25 years ago) on a major autobahn near Munich. This is of course illegal. I was facing away from the flow of traffic and was almost deafened, scared shitless and fell off my pack, when a jet black police Porsche, doing all of 100 mph, came up behind me, cuts its ignition, stomped on the gas for a second, and switched back on the spark -- BOOOOOMMMM! They didn't even stop to tell me what I knew. Honestly, it worked, I took a train! - -- Peter Gargano ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 18:01:44 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: Simple Injection Questions | I have no 1st hand experience. I've read that it is tricky and that the | initial throttle opening doesn't provide good resolution, i.e., small | throttle changes produce big engine load changes. There are some postings in the archives, about a 20 degree throttle opening being like 70% of throttle opening area. Grumpy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 18:07:28 -0400 From: "C. Brooks" Subject: Re: DIY FTP site I'm using IE 4.0, and CuteFTP32. I'm getting an "Unable to resolve host name" error when I try to connect. Charles Brooks - -----Original Message----- From: rr To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Saturday, May 22, 1999 6:06 PM Subject: Re: DIY FTP site >Sure, > >Fire up your browser and point it at: > > ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/incoming/ > >Once there, > >Do a alt-f (file menu), look for the entry that says 'Upload File...', > >click on that and follow the menus... > >(This is for Netscape). > >HTH > >BobR. > > >C. Brooks wrote: >> >> Can someone forward the directions for uploading a file to the FTP site? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Charles Brooks > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 19:35:38 -0700 From: rr Subject: Re: DIY FTP site Ok, you might some heavy-duty help, but first try this: Point browser at this: http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/diy_efi/ You can should be able to get here, this is a web site. Then, click on: "Index of the files on the FTP site " Then, at the very top of the next page, you should see: "Index to some of the files in the FTP directory," "ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/incoming/:" Click on the second line, this is the same that you tried before. If you got that far, but couldn't get into the ftp site, you need to speak with either your sys-adm or your isp tech support. BobR. C. Brooks wrote: > > I'm using IE 4.0, and CuteFTP32. I'm getting an "Unable to resolve host > name" error when I try to connect. > > Charles Brooks > > -----Original Message----- > From: rr > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > Date: Saturday, May 22, 1999 6:06 PM > Subject: Re: DIY FTP site > > >Sure, > > > >Fire up your browser and point it at: > > > > ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/incoming/ > > > >Once there, > > > >Do a alt-f (file menu), look for the entry that says 'Upload File...', > > > >click on that and follow the menus... > > > >(This is for Netscape). > > > >HTH > > > >BobR. > > > > > >C. Brooks wrote: > >> > >> Can someone forward the directions for uploading a file to the FTP site? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Charles Brooks > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 21:26:58 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi At 04:13 PM 5/22/99 -0400, you wrote: >And just because the ads say they are trucks, don't confuse them with >the real thing. ; ) And 4X4 for that matter... Look in the owners manual and it says that if you take the vehicle off road the warranty is void... =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 19:03:20 -0700 (PDT) From: thergen@xxx.net Subject: Re: DIY FTP site Another possibility... Open a dos window (assuming a win95 machine). C:\>ftp efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu User (efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu:(none)): anonymous Password: chuck@xxx.com cd incoming binary send my_file ls (this will show you a list of files) quit Some lines that will appear on your screen were not included in the example above. Tom On Sat, 22 May 1999, C. Brooks wrote: > I'm using IE 4.0, and CuteFTP32. I'm getting an "Unable to resolve host > name" error when I try to connect. > > Charles Brooks > > -----Original Message----- > From: rr > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > Date: Saturday, May 22, 1999 6:06 PM > Subject: Re: DIY FTP site > > > >Sure, > > > >Fire up your browser and point it at: > > > > ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/incoming/ > > > >Once there, > > > >Do a alt-f (file menu), look for the entry that says 'Upload File...', > > > >click on that and follow the menus... > > > >(This is for Netscape). > > > >HTH > > > >BobR. > > > > > >C. Brooks wrote: > >> > >> Can someone forward the directions for uploading a file to the FTP site? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Charles Brooks > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 22:20:03 -0400 From: "C. Brooks" Subject: Re: DIY FTP site No, no, I don't have any problem VIEWING the FTP site. I want to upload a file to the site and my FTP S/W is giving me an error which reads "Unable to resolve host name". I'm using port 21 and ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/incoming/ as the host name. This isn't working. Am I using the wrong port address for FTPing to this site? Or is the FTP host name different from the WWW address? Charles Brooks - -----Original Message----- From: rr To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Saturday, May 22, 1999 10:48 PM Subject: Re: DIY FTP site >Ok, you might some heavy-duty help, but first try this: > >Point browser at this: > > http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/diy_efi/ > >You can should be able to get here, this is a web site. > >Then, click on: > > "Index of the files on the FTP site " > >Then, at the very top of the next page, you should see: > > "Index to some of the files in the FTP directory," > "ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/incoming/:" > >Click on the second line, this is the same that you tried >before. > >If you got that far, but couldn't get into the ftp site, >you need to speak with either your sys-adm or your isp >tech support. > >BobR. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 22:48:22 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: DIY FTP site At 10:20 PM 5/22/99 -0400, you wrote: >No, no, I don't have any problem VIEWING the FTP site. I want to upload a >file to the site and my FTP S/W is giving me an error which reads "Unable to >resolve host name". I'm using port 21 and >ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/incoming/ as the host name. This isn't >working. Am I using the wrong port address for FTPing to this site? Or is >the FTP host name different from the WWW address? Leave the /incoming/ off the address... the host name is simply efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu then once connected as anonymous, type cd incoming. that will put you in the incoming directory =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 04:01:56 -0400 (EDT) From: William T Wilson Subject: Re: DIY FTP site On Sat, 22 May 1999, C. Brooks wrote: > resolve host name". I'm using port 21 and > ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/incoming/ as the host name. This isn't efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu is the host name. If you have pre-IE4 Win95, you can run ftp from a DOS box as the previous message suggested. Otherwise you have to type this instead: c:\windows\ftp efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu into the "run" box on the start menu. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 10:30:09 +1000 From: "Geffro" Subject: Where to start Hi Folks Anyone got a website with info on the basics of programming proms eg. What is an emulator ? How to use it ? This is a broadcast code. This is a calibration code. This is a checksum. This is how it all works Ya get the idea TIA Geoff ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #301 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. 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