DIY_EFI Digest Monday, May 24 1999 Volume 04 : Number 303 In this issue: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: Mr Helmholz - simple model Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: Mr Helmholz - simple model, top fuel Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: Simple Injection Questions Re: Simple Injection Questions Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: Simple Injection Questions Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: EGR? Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: alternative engines, now Hemi See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:05:05 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Thanks for that input David... However, I DID say CAR ya know? Mopar Trucks come with V-10's but only one car comes with one... the Viper... They SHOULD'VE put the V-10 in the Prowler... I like the looks, but the power's lackin on the prowler, I'm sure.... LATER!, Todd....!! David A. Cooley wrote: > > At 02:28 PM 5/21/99 -0700, you wrote: > >Good'n Bill, ouch... > > > >What new CAR is even SOLD with a Rat these dayzzzz.... Anything?... > > > >Just wonderinnnnnnn.........!!!! > > Suburban's, pickups, tahoe's etc... > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! > =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:12:45 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Mr Helmholz - simple model Thanks for the info Bill!, Will be savin your 'back to basics' formulas and ideals! Thanks for unclouding the fogginess and confusion from some of our thinkin! In drag racing the stall should be set between max torque and max HP, I believe that if we just used a stall the stalled right at our red line that we would get the best e.t. and MPH in the 1/4... If we could keep from spinnin &/or breakin... LATER! Todd....!! http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/toddlnk.htm Bill Bradley wrote: > > > > I don't know, but don't hp and torque curves always > > > cross at 5252 RPM? How would that work on any engine > > > that has a peak HP over 5252 RPM? > > > > Yes they do... Just means that as the Torque and HP cross at 5252, the HP is > > rising and the torque is falling. > > they don't stay the same above 5252. > > Wrong. The torque curve could very easily be rising, > HP=torque(lb*ft)*rpm/5252. They always cross there. > > As far as the Max torque vs. Max Hp issue. Torque =Force x radius > so the maximum force accelerating the car is directly proportional to the > maximum torque. > Power=Work/time, but it also equals Force*velocity, so the maximum > force at any given speed is at maximum horsepower (the gearing is irrelevant) > So for maximum acceleration you want the revs to be at peak hp. For > those of us with normal transmissions, the usable power curve is more > important than peak, which is where the maximum torque is a factor. > > Bill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 08:48:01 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Hi Grumpy, I was wonderin how ya came to get that nicname? I can see a bit of grumpy-ness in some of your posts... However, you still sound sincere and I believe taht you feel strongly about what you state... Thanks for the responses... The MPH 'wall' for the top fuelers in the past was 300 mph, no one ever thaought they'd break that one, today I believe they're even in the 31X.'s(teens) in mph! That's FAST! Sub 4 = 3.xx is correct... Gene Snow, I believe was one of the firsts to get into the 3's in the 1/4 in his top fueler! He even did it without a rear spoiler!! It was a 'test' run, and it went rather well considerin not havin 300-1,000+ lb.s of down force from the HUGE spoiler the top fuelers run... Thanks for the info about the saab, I learn things everyday from this and other threads... Try to write it down, save it somewhere, or print most of the cooler things... Wonder how much I've forgotten!!?? LATER! Todd....!! Bruce Plecan wrote: > > | > They used to think it was impossible to travel to the moon, much less > | > mars.... we've done it... > > Depends on if you beleive the news. > > | > They used to think a 4 minute mile was impossible... Done > > | > As well as a sub 4 second 1/4 run outof a piston engined dragster... > | > Done > > Hear of sub 5, but not sub 4. Wouldn't sub 4 mean 3.xx > > | snip > > | > Most obstacles are easily overcome, if ya think the 'right' way.... > > Cold Fusion. > > | why not have a spark plug with a very long nose and no side electrode > > Saab done it already, trouble was erosion at top of ring pattern when spark > occured. > Grumpy > > | ie > | the nose clears the threaded part by .5" to .75" and sparks to the > | piston due to proximity > | a problem I could see is the oil insulating the return path > | > Anything else? > | > LATER! > | > Todd....!! > | > David A. Cooley wrote: > | > > > Makes ya wonder why they don't just use the piston as the electrode > and > | > > > the head as the ground or vice versus and omit the spark plug all > | > > > together due to not having a need for em anymore! > | > > > The block and/or pistons can be electrically isolated from the heads > | > > > fairly wasily with nonconductive head gaskets, etc... > | > > Actually, they can't. Head bolts are metal, water in the cooling > jacket is > | > > conductive etc... > | > > It's basically an impossibility. > | Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:17:37 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi COOL DEAL! I know that Aluminum(AL) is a bit less than half the weight of Iron(FE) at the moleculer level, but how much lighter is plastic than either? They MUSt've used steel cylinder liners in that plstic block, right? Just wonderin.... LATER! Todd....!! AL8001@xxx.com wrote: > > In a message dated 99-05-21 16:57:28 EDT, atc347@xxx.net writes: > > >You're correct Fred, > > > >Didn't Popular Science already 'do' the plastic engine article quite a > >few years back(10-15 years ago?) > > > >I forgot about it... > > > > > Yes, it was based on the Ford 2.3L 4 Cyl engine. It was also raced for a > time in IMSA in a GTU car. > > Harold ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:23:53 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Sounds like a painful operation to me!! ALSO, BTW - FYI - Found a HUGE IMPERIAL cruisin in the junk yard universe this weekend, and it has a HEMI IN IT!! HOWEVER it's an old 50's or early 60's at the latest car, I can't tell what year it is.. but the distributor is in the rear of the hemi, which means that is ain't a 426(426's dist is in the front like the newer mopar BB's) So the question now is, is this engine truly a 392 or just a 331...? EITHER way, it IS a hemi and it is HUGE! NO ONE will be able to tel the diff tween it and a REAL 426 hemi except for the distributor sittin in the back! Anybody know how to tell what year the car is or whether or not the engine is a 331 or 392 hemi? They only want $300 for it, and that's still negotiable... Will be checkin for info on how to tell what this engine is... May just have ta pull a head to check the bore and pull the crank to check the stroke or somethin... the bore should tell me nuff? Will be gettin the specs and differences tween the 331 and 392 as well... LATER! Todd....!! Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > Actually, the plug location in a Hemi is bad because it is off to one side. > > Its the best you can do with a Hemi but its still bad. As a result it needs > > >From what I've read a not so uncommon mod for all out racing is to drill > and tap another spark plug hole... but I've not found anything on the > net about it. Someone who was slightly intoxicated mentioned this to me > in a bar a year or so ago. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:28:03 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Mr Helmholz - simple model, top fuel They still use the lenco in the non top fuelers... Those are some cool trannies! One was for sale at one of the swaps of late... It was a 2-speeder as well! They refer to the 1st gear as an underdrive ratio, like 40% underdrive instead of 3.23:1 or something... It was pretty cheap too! Check it out at http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/toddlnk.htm under the autorama section! LATER! Todd....!! ECMnut@xxx.com wrote: > > Man, I AM a fossil... > When did they scrap the 2 speed lenco? > MV > > > > ALSO a TOP FUEL dragster is still traction limited, doesn't have more > > than one gear, and the clutch slides the entire run... > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:31:53 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Thanks for the info Jim!, As for the B/RB block not having the provisions for cross bolts, that can be SIMPLY remedied by my good ol handy n durable Black n decker drill! LOL! LATER! Todd....!! Jim Davies wrote: > > On Fri, 21 May 1999, Todd....!! wrote: > > > Are ya sure that the cranks don't interchange? > > > > What's the diff? Besides the Hemi having 8 flywheel bolt holes vs the > > 440/383's 6 flywheel bolt holes > > > > Are the main journals a different size? or the rod journals? what? > > > > The stroke is 3.75, same as a 440... > > > They will fit. the counterweights are different, of course. > > > And as for the caps, jsut cuz there's an extra bolt hole in the main > > caps for the cross bolt, does that mean ya still can't use em in the > > 440? > You could use them, too. Most of them were malleable iron. There is no > provision in the regular B block for the cross bolts... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:53:00 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi People who run Alcohol engine's (most of em are in some sorta drag racing) who have no radiators at all on their engine's say they have a hard time gettin the temp gauge to read any heat at all! Alcohol must burn REALLY COOL! LATER! Todd....!! - -------- William T Wilson wrote: > > On Fri, 21 May 1999, Gary Derian wrote: > > > Engine research using ceramics is headed toward an adiabatic engine. > > That is one which needs no cooling system. This keeps the fire hotter > > during the power stroke since no heat is absorbed by a cooling system. > > I would think this would actually increase propensity for detonation. > > It doesn't, necessarily, because the nice thing about an adiabatic engine > is that having a hot fire during the power stroke hasn't got anything to > do with the temperature inside the cylider during the intake/compression > stroke. > > If the engine needs no cooling system, then that means that heat isn't > building up inside it (which is good, because all that energy can go into > useful work instead of out the radiator). Since heat isn't building up > inside it, that means all the generated heat is getting blown out the > exhaust, and the inside temperatures are nice and cold when the next > charge comes through. > > Ceramics have extremely high tolerance for heat, and relatively low heat > transfer rate. Which means that heat generated in the power/compression > strokes doesn't have *time* to get transferred into the engine itself. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:01:06 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Simple Injection Questions SCARY BUT COOOOOLLL! Thanks for the warnin! Will let my Brother in Italy know this as well, just in case he ever goes to that part a the country!! LATER! Todd....!! Peter Gargano wrote: > > David A. Cooley wrote: > > > I blew a pair of Hemi mufflers off a 68 Pontiac Bonneville... Turned the key > > off for about 2 secs while under way at 70MPH and when I cut the key back on > > it blew the exhaust system apart! > > > Scared the hell out of me! > > I was trying to hitch a ride in Germany (about 25 years ago) on a major autobahn > near Munich. This is of course illegal. I was facing away from the flow of traffic > and was almost deafened, scared shitless and fell off my pack, when a jet black > police Porsche, doing all of 100 mph, came up behind me, cuts its ignition, stomped > on the gas for a second, and switched back on the spark -- > > BOOOOOMMMM! > > They didn't even stop to tell me what I knew. Honestly, it worked, I took a train! > > -- > Peter Gargano ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:15:47 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Simple Injection Questions I own a 91 Mitsu Eclipse Turbo 5-speed, I've never had this problem, so I can't tell ya one way or another... I don't believe it has ever detonated, and I've ragged the heck outa the thing... It's currently down due to the lil hydraulic auto-adjusters which are supposed to keep the rockers 'adjusted' so the thing doesn't clatter, as it is currently.. Musta gotten some dirt in the oil or somethin... A mechanic said that if ANY foreign particles get into the oil on this engine, that these adjuster thingy majigs are the first to tell ya so! They're only $20 a peice and there are 16 OF EM!!!! So, as soon as I hit the lottery or somethin, I guess I'll be either drivin it again or sellin it!! Anyone interested? LATER! Todd....!! Dave Williams wrote: > > -> boost. I've heard all the theories about turning the fuel off > -> then back on, but they don't seem to apply with 16psi of > -> boost.. There is *significant* detonation as the injectors come back > -> on.. > > Mitsubishi uses fuel cut on its turbo fours. They don't detonate after > fuel resumes. > > Must be a GM programming problem. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:22:29 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi I think I've heard of this technique, but it creates HUGE clouds of black smoke and soot! Some people may find it a bit tasteless... I think this is why this technology you're referrin to hasn't really caught on by the masses! LATER! Todd....!! Tom Sharpe wrote: > > Why use a spark at all??? just squeeze it till it pops... Tom (Cat man) Sharpe > > Todd....!! wrote: > > > C'mon David...., > > > > They used to think it was impossible to travel to the moon, much less > > mars.... we've done it... > > > > They used to think a 4 minute mile was impossible... Done > > > > As well as a sub 4 second 1/4 run outof a piston engined dragster... > > Done > > > > etc, etc... > > > > Just as a thought, if your believe the limitation of runnin a non spark > > plug engine using the block and head as the anode and ground instead of > > a spark plug is because of the bolts and the water between em creating a > > connection, then we must insulate em, maybe even run two > > seperated(isolated) radiators, one for the head, one for the block... > > > > As for the bolts, use isolated anchors within the block or merely secure > > the heads onto the block via some sortof external mechanism...(like a > > vice) > > > > Most obstacles are easily overcome, if ya think the 'right' way.... > > > > Anything else? > > > > LATER! > > > > Todd....!! > > > > David A. Cooley wrote: > > > > > > > Makes ya wonder why they don't just use the piston as the electrode and > > > > the head as the ground or vice versus and omit the spark plug all > > > > together due to not having a need for em anymore! > > > > > > > > The block and/or pistons can be electrically isolated from the heads > > > > fairly wasily with nonconductive head gaskets, etc... > > > > > > Actually, they can't. Head bolts are metal, water in the cooling jacket is > > > conductive etc... > > > It's basically an impossibility. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:23:50 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Simple Injection Questions Sounds like a winner to me man! Where would we purchase such a contraption, or at least where would we pick up the components? Thanks! LATER! Todd....!! Tom Sharpe wrote: > > Chew, Aaron wrote: > > > Alpha-n is a throttle-position and rpm fuel map control strategy. > > > > For a really simple system, Alpha_N with a quad set of pots to adjust things, > say idle to off idle(0% to +10%), cruse (+10 to +30), acceleration (+30 to +60) > and WOT. Just more screws to adjust than a standard carb.... add temperature > correction if you ride when it's cold or hot.. or a fifth pot for a global > weather adjustment. Sounds like an old Holley analog unit.. That's (IMHO) what > VW used in the 70's. Tom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:22:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Squash Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Actually deisels have caught on in most of the rest of the world, it seems. Andy - --- "Todd....!!" wrote: > I think I've heard of this technique, but it creates > HUGE clouds of > black smoke and soot! Some people may find it a bit > tasteless... > > I think this is why this technology you're referrin > to hasn't really > caught on by the masses! > > LATER! > > Todd....!! > > Tom Sharpe wrote: > > > > Why use a spark at all??? just squeeze it till it > pops... Tom (Cat man) Sharpe > > > > Todd....!! wrote: > > > > > C'mon David...., > > > > > > They used to think it was impossible to travel > to the moon, much less > > > mars.... we've done it... > > > > > > They used to think a 4 minute mile was > impossible... Done > > > > > > As well as a sub 4 second 1/4 run outof a piston > engined dragster... > > > Done > > > > > > etc, etc... > > > > > > Just as a thought, if your believe the > limitation of runnin a non spark > > > plug engine using the block and head as the > anode and ground instead of > > > a spark plug is because of the bolts and the > water between em creating a > > > connection, then we must insulate em, maybe even > run two > > > seperated(isolated) radiators, one for the head, > one for the block... > > > > > > As for the bolts, use isolated anchors within > the block or merely secure > > > the heads onto the block via some sortof > external mechanism...(like a > > > vice) > > > > > > Most obstacles are easily overcome, if ya think > the 'right' way.... > > > > > > Anything else? > > > > > > LATER! > > > > > > Todd....!! > > > > > > David A. Cooley wrote: > > > > > > > > > Makes ya wonder why they don't just use the > piston as the electrode and > > > > > the head as the ground or vice versus and > omit the spark plug all > > > > > together due to not having a need for em > anymore! > > > > > > > > > > The block and/or pistons can be electrically > isolated from the heads > > > > > fairly wasily with nonconductive head > gaskets, etc... > > > > > > > > Actually, they can't. Head bolts are metal, > water in the cooling jacket is > > > > conductive etc... > > > > It's basically an impossibility. > > > _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 12:33:12 -0400 From: "CLsnyder" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi - ----- Original Message ----- From: Todd....!! To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 12:23 PM Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi > Sounds like a painful operation to me!! > > ALSO, BTW - FYI - Found a HUGE IMPERIAL cruisin in the junk yard > universe this weekend, and it has a HEMI IN IT!! > > HOWEVER it's an old 50's or early 60's at the latest car, I can't tell > what year it is.. but the distributor is in the rear of the hemi, which > means that is ain't a 426(426's dist is in the front like the newer > mopar BB's) So the question now is, is this engine truly a 392 or just > a 331...? > 392 was used in '57 and '58. '56 was a 353. '51 to '55 were 331. Single headlights up to '56. > EITHER way, it IS a hemi and it is HUGE! NO ONE will be able to tel the > diff tween it and a REAL 426 hemi except for the distributor sittin in > the back! > > Anybody know how to tell what year the car is or whether or not the > engine is a 331 or 392 hemi? > > They only want $300 for it, and that's still negotiable... > > Will be checkin for info on how to tell what this engine is... > > May just have ta pull a head to check the bore and pull the crank to > check the stroke or somethin... the bore should tell me nuff? Will be > gettin the specs and differences tween the 331 and 392 as well... > > LATER! > > Todd....!! > > > Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > > > Actually, the plug location in a Hemi is bad because it is off to one side. > > > Its the best you can do with a Hemi but its still bad. As a result it needs > > > > >From what I've read a not so uncommon mod for all out racing is to drill > > and tap another spark plug hole... but I've not found anything on the > > net about it. Someone who was slightly intoxicated mentioned this to me > > in a bar a year or so ago. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:17:21 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi At 09:05 AM 5/24/99 -0700, you wrote: >Thanks for that input David... > >However, I DID say CAR ya know? > >Mopar Trucks come with V-10's but only one car comes with one... the >Viper... They SHOULD'VE put the V-10 in the Prowler... I like the >looks, but the power's lackin on the prowler, I'm sure.... I think even the 318 or 360 in the prowler would have been a better choice than the V6... =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:19:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Davies Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi On Mon, 24 May 1999, Todd....!! wrote: > Thanks for the info Jim!, > > As for the B/RB block not having the provisions for cross bolts, that > can be SIMPLY remedied by my good ol handy n durable Black n decker > drill! LOL! > The hemi block has a lot more metal in the area where the cross bolts go. You could put the bolts into a non-hemi block, but they would not add much strength, in fact they would probably crack the block when under load. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:19:49 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi At 10:22 AM 5/24/99 -0700, you wrote: >I think I've heard of this technique, but it creates HUGE clouds of >black smoke and soot! Some people may find it a bit tasteless... > >I think this is why this technology you're referrin to hasn't really >caught on by the masses! Actually, this is the description of the diesel. Compress the air to 500+ degrees then spray the fuel in. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 12:18:04 -0500 From: steve ravet Subject: Re: EGR? Shannen Durphey wrote: > Now, I'm in a closed shop. We get a little bit of customer work, and > I try to be at the desk whenever it comes in. It's a good idea to at > least show yourself to the car owner, IMHO. > Shannen You should have moved to Austin. It'd be nice to have a mechanic around that I knew/could trust... :-) - --steve - -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@xxx.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:26:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Davies Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi On Mon, 24 May 1999, David A. Cooley wrote: > I think even the 318 or 360 in the prowler would have been a better choice > than the V6... Having just had a good look at a Prowler, there is no room for a V8... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 11:17:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Squash Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi - --- Jim Davies wrote: > Having just had a good look at a Prowler, there is > no room for a V8... Then it shoulda been designed differently! Andy p.s. a v-10 in the prowler would be quite dangerous. _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 15:33:29 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi > I think even the 318 or 360 in the prowler would have been a better choice > than the V6... When Chrysler made the thing publically available, they clearly stated they went for styling, not performance. And they have achieved that... slow-ass acceleration with a 50's rodder kinda look. - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 15:34:20 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi > Viper... They SHOULD'VE put the V-10 in the Prowler... I like the > looks, but the power's lackin on the prowler, I'm sure.... Based on the design, it wouldn't have fit... and with the V6 its insurable :) - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:29:29 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi So, the 392 was only in TWO years of cars? It could be that year, but it looks older than a 58, will verify! Maybe I'll take a dig pic of the thing and post it on one of my sites and ask ya'll to look at it and tell me wxactly what year the beast is!? My Bee would look REALLY COOL with a HEMI in it! Thanks! Todd....!! CLsnyder wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Todd....!! > To: > Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 12:23 PM > Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi > > > Sounds like a painful operation to me!! > > > > ALSO, BTW - FYI - Found a HUGE IMPERIAL cruisin in the junk yard > > universe this weekend, and it has a HEMI IN IT!! > > > > HOWEVER it's an old 50's or early 60's at the latest car, I can't tell > > what year it is.. but the distributor is in the rear of the hemi, which > > means that is ain't a 426(426's dist is in the front like the newer > > mopar BB's) So the question now is, is this engine truly a 392 or just > > a 331...? > > > 392 was used in '57 and '58. '56 was a 353. '51 to '55 were 331. > > Single headlights up to '56. > > EITHER way, it IS a hemi and it is HUGE! NO ONE will be able to tel the > > diff tween it and a REAL 426 hemi except for the distributor sittin in > > the back! > > > > Anybody know how to tell what year the car is or whether or not the > > engine is a 331 or 392 hemi? > > > > They only want $300 for it, and that's still negotiable... > > > > Will be checkin for info on how to tell what this engine is... > > > > May just have ta pull a head to check the bore and pull the crank to > > check the stroke or somethin... the bore should tell me nuff? Will be > > gettin the specs and differences tween the 331 and 392 as well... > > > > LATER! > > > > Todd....!! > > > > > > Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > > > > > Actually, the plug location in a Hemi is bad because it is off to one > side. > > > > Its the best you can do with a Hemi but its still bad. As a result it > needs > > > > > > >From what I've read a not so uncommon mod for all out racing is to > drill > > > and tap another spark plug hole... but I've not found anything on the > > > net about it. Someone who was slightly intoxicated mentioned this to me > > > in a bar a year or so ago. > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:27:24 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi >From personal experience, out of my entire family, we've only had like ONE diesel, it was a delta 88 or somethin back in the late 70's early 80's, it threw a rod before we were done with it... Later.... Todd....!! Squash wrote: > > Actually deisels have caught on in most of the rest of > the world, it seems. > > Andy > > --- "Todd....!!" wrote: > > I think I've heard of this technique, but it creates > > HUGE clouds of > > black smoke and soot! Some people may find it a bit > > tasteless... > > > > I think this is why this technology you're referrin > > to hasn't really > > caught on by the masses! > > > > LATER! > > > > Todd....!! > > > > Tom Sharpe wrote: > > > > > > Why use a spark at all??? just squeeze it till it > > pops... Tom (Cat man) Sharpe > > > > > > Todd....!! wrote: > > > > > > > C'mon David...., > > > > > > > > They used to think it was impossible to travel > > to the moon, much less > > > > mars.... we've done it... > > > > > > > > They used to think a 4 minute mile was > > impossible... Done > > > > > > > > As well as a sub 4 second 1/4 run outof a piston > > engined dragster... > > > > Done > > > > > > > > etc, etc... > > > > > > > > Just as a thought, if your believe the > > limitation of runnin a non spark > > > > plug engine using the block and head as the > > anode and ground instead of > > > > a spark plug is because of the bolts and the > > water between em creating a > > > > connection, then we must insulate em, maybe even > > run two > > > > seperated(isolated) radiators, one for the head, > > one for the block... > > > > > > > > As for the bolts, use isolated anchors within > > the block or merely secure > > > > the heads onto the block via some sortof > > external mechanism...(like a > > > > vice) > > > > > > > > Most obstacles are easily overcome, if ya think > > the 'right' way.... > > > > > > > > Anything else? > > > > > > > > LATER! > > > > > > > > Todd....!! > > > > > > > > David A. Cooley wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Makes ya wonder why they don't just use the > > piston as the electrode and > > > > > > the head as the ground or vice versus and > > omit the spark plug all > > > > > > together due to not having a need for em > > anymore! > > > > > > > > > > > > The block and/or pistons can be electrically > > isolated from the heads > > > > > > fairly wasily with nonconductive head > > gaskets, etc... > > > > > > > > > > Actually, they can't. Head bolts are metal, > > water in the cooling jacket is > > > > > conductive etc... > > > > > It's basically an impossibility. > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 16:15:02 -0400 From: "SPECTRO COATING CORP." Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi If you really want cross bolted caps in a wedge then ProGram makes a set that are designed to work w/ the wedge block. But it's not a Black and Decker deal. You have to put the block in a mill and fit it for the caps to mate up. While you're there you may as well add provisions for the Stage V hemi heads ;) BTW - a Rat Roaster is probably THE worst manifold to try to adapt to EFI - it has a top plate that would interfere with the injectors - a tunnel ram would be MUCH easier. If you still have your heart set on it then I'd suggest you go look at a GM CPI 4.3L V-6. That would probably be easier to do FWIW - Jason > >On Mon, 24 May 1999, Todd....!! wrote: > >> Thanks for the info Jim!, >> >> As for the B/RB block not having the provisions for cross bolts, that >> can be SIMPLY remedied by my good ol handy n durable Black n decker >> drill! LOL! >> >The hemi block has a lot more metal in the area where the cross bolts go. >You could put the bolts into a non-hemi block, but they would not add much >strength, in fact they would probably crack the block when under load. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:55:43 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi OK David, Ya just made me think of a question havin to do with the 'diesel' principle that you just stated.... Most diesels' static compression ratio's are pretty much over 20:1 right? Why don't they just squirt regular fuel in at these temps instead of diesel? What would happen? It seems like it'd be possible!! What's the diff? REALLY? Thanks! LATER! Todd.....!! David A. Cooley wrote: > > At 10:22 AM 5/24/99 -0700, you wrote: > >I think I've heard of this technique, but it creates HUGE clouds of > >black smoke and soot! Some people may find it a bit tasteless... > > > >I think this is why this technology you're referrin to hasn't really > >caught on by the masses! > > Actually, this is the description of the diesel. > > Compress the air to 500+ degrees then spray the fuel in. > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! > =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 15:02:13 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi EXACTLY! GREAT point indeed! They MUST'VE had a reason for this! Doubt the reason was SPACE savings! What's another piston do to the length of an engine, maybe 4 to 6 inches longer MAX? I wonder what the diff in the engine mounting locations are? A welder would fix whatever the diffs are... maybe even make the sucker a rear/mid engine? Just a thought... Fred may have a bit of input on this one, since he IS in the process of writing a book about creatin POWERFUL Hi Po cars from SCRATCH!! What's the diff in tq n HP 'tween the 6 that's in the prowler vs. the 360? Thanks! Later!, Todd....!! David A. Cooley wrote: > > At 09:05 AM 5/24/99 -0700, you wrote: > >Thanks for that input David... > > > >However, I DID say CAR ya know? > > > >Mopar Trucks come with V-10's but only one car comes with one... the > >Viper... They SHOULD'VE put the V-10 in the Prowler... I like the > >looks, but the power's lackin on the prowler, I'm sure.... > > I think even the 318 or 360 in the prowler would have been a better choice > than the V6... > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! > =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:53:26 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Jim ya silly person you..., That's what a Sawz-all, pneumatic sheetmetal shears, die grinder, mig welder, and sledge hammers are for....you know that! OR That's what Resin's for mang? The engine MAY have to stick out a bit.... Wouldn't it look perty with some BIG OL HEMI heads stickout the sides? Will have to measure and see just how MUCH of the Hemi will be stickin out.... As of now, the Prowler's pretty much ALL SHOW n NO GO, don't ya think? At LEAST put a turbo or supercharger on the el lame-o 6, ya know? LATER! Todd.... - ------------------ Jim Davies wrote: > > On Mon, 24 May 1999, David A. Cooley wrote: > > > I think even the 318 or 360 in the prowler would have been a better choice > > than the V6... > > Having just had a good look at a Prowler, there is no room for a V8... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 16:26:35 -0400 From: "CLsnyder" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi - ----- Original Message ----- From: Todd....!! To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 5:29 PM Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi > So, the 392 was only in TWO years of cars? Yup, 2 years only - Chrysler New Yorker, 300C, and Imperial only. Dual Quads on the 300C only. > > It could be that year, but it looks older than a 58, will verify! Get me a picture, I'll tell you the year. If you can get the serial number off the left front door hinge pillar it will help . > > Maybe I'll take a dig pic of the thing and post it on one of my sites > and ask ya'll to look at it and tell me wxactly what year the beast is!? > > My Bee would look REALLY COOL with a HEMI in it! > > Thanks! > > Todd....!! > > CLsnyder wrote: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Todd....!! > > To: > > Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 12:23 PM > > Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi > > > > > Sounds like a painful operation to me!! > > > > > > ALSO, BTW - FYI - Found a HUGE IMPERIAL cruisin in the junk yard > > > universe this weekend, and it has a HEMI IN IT!! > > > > > > HOWEVER it's an old 50's or early 60's at the latest car, I can't tell > > > what year it is.. but the distributor is in the rear of the hemi, which > > > means that is ain't a 426(426's dist is in the front like the newer > > > mopar BB's) So the question now is, is this engine truly a 392 or just > > > a 331...? > > > > > 392 was used in '57 and '58. '56 was a 353. '51 to '55 were 331. > > > > Single headlights up to '56. > > > EITHER way, it IS a hemi and it is HUGE! NO ONE will be able to tel the > > > diff tween it and a REAL 426 hemi except for the distributor sittin in > > > the back! > > > > > > Anybody know how to tell what year the car is or whether or not the > > > engine is a 331 or 392 hemi? > > > > > > They only want $300 for it, and that's still negotiable... > > > > > > Will be checkin for info on how to tell what this engine is... > > > > > > May just have ta pull a head to check the bore and pull the crank to > > > check the stroke or somethin... the bore should tell me nuff? Will be > > > gettin the specs and differences tween the 331 and 392 as well... > > > > > > LATER! > > > > > > Todd....!! > > > > > > > > > Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > > > > > > > Actually, the plug location in a Hemi is bad because it is off to one > > side. > > > > > Its the best you can do with a Hemi but its still bad. As a result it > > needs > > > > > > > > >From what I've read a not so uncommon mod for all out racing is to > > drill > > > > and tap another spark plug hole... but I've not found anything on the > > > > net about it. Someone who was slightly intoxicated mentioned this to me > > > > in a bar a year or so ago. > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #303 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".