DIY_EFI Digest         Wednesday, May 26 1999         Volume 04 : Number 306



In this issue:

	Re: 94 Truck dilemma
	RE: question on cooling system
	Re: 94 Truck dilemma
	RE: Ignition retard knock sensor.
	RE: question on cooling system
	Re: question on cooling system
	Re: question on cooling system
	SpeedBrain... to the rescue....??
	305V8 convert to EFI
	Re: alternative engines, now Hemi
	Re: question on cooling system
	Re: alternative engines, now loosing tenths
	Re: 305V8 convert to EFI
	Re: alternative engines, now Hemi
	Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.
	Re: question on cooling system
	Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.
	Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.
	Re: question on cooling system
	Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.
	O/T Compression ratio and supercharging
	Re: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging
	Bosch D-Jetronic
	Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.
	question on cooling system
	Re: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging
	Re: question on cooling system
	Re: question on cooling system
	Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.
	Re: SpeedBrain... to the rescue....??
	GM 8321
	Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.
	RE: Bosch D-Jetronic
	SV: Ignition retard knock sensor.
	Need help with Bosch part no.
	Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the 
DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 15:55:04 EDT
From: A70Duster@xxx.com
Subject: Re: 94 Truck dilemma

Ever heard of karma.....

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 15:10:17 -0500
From: Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com
Subject: RE: question on cooling system

The filter you ask about does exist. It is more of a strainer than filter
but does catch the big stuff. I bought the one I have at a speed shop that
was going out of business, it mounts between a heater hose and the engine.
To clean it you unscrew the clear sediment bowl. I don't have the make or
model in front of me, but pep boys auto or Napa should be able to help you
out.
 
Don 

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Stowe, Ted-SEA [SMTP:StowT@xxx.com]
> Sent:	Tuesday, May 25, 1999 12:44 PM
> To:	'diy_efi@xxx.edu'
> Subject:	question on cooling system
> 
> this may sound crazy but I thought I'd ask.
> 
> question, in working on my Chevy 350 block, (valve job), I noticed that my
> cooling system, (heater core, block) is not pristine. in accidentally
> finding some heavy hydraulic web sites, I wondered if anyone has ever
> thought of some kind of filter in the heater hoses to trap rust, scale,
> etc,
> rather than letting it flow through the system.
> 
> some of the stuff I've seen on the web, (not automotive), has been real
> impressive looking, at the very least one might use a patch of clear
> tubing
> and visually see the color/flow/ air content of the coolant, might be
> interesting.
> 
> thanks, Ted.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:34:19 -0400
From: "Bruce Plecan" <nacelp@xxx.net>
Subject: Re: 94 Truck dilemma

| Ever heard of karma.....

You mind passing some this way??.
Grumpy 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:38:27 -0400
From: "Falb, John" <John.Falb@xxx.Com>
Subject: RE: Ignition retard knock sensor.

I'm having a serious problem with knock on my turbo'd engine.  To the
point I'm actually considering dishing out the $400 - $500 (or more)
for the J&S knock sensor system.  
<snip>


You can get it for more like 250.00 from J&S, and yes they work. But they
are not a good solution for a constantly knocking engine. They will retard
too much and take too long to recover. They really shine when you have
occasional knock and don't want to harm the engine.

John Falb 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 14:02:06 -0700
From: "Stowe, Ted-SEA" <StowT@xxx.com>
Subject: RE: question on cooling system

interesting, thanks Don.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com]
> Sent:	Tuesday, May 25, 1999 1:10 PM
> To:	diy_efi@xxx.edu
> Subject:	RE: question on cooling system
> 
> The filter you ask about does exist. It is more of a strainer than filter
> but does catch the big stuff. I bought the one I have at a speed shop that
> was going out of business, it mounts between a heater hose and the engine.
> To clean it you unscrew the clear sediment bowl. I don't have the make or
> model in front of me, but pep boys auto or Napa should be able to help you
> out.
>  
> Don 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:	Stowe, Ted-SEA [SMTP:StowT@xxx.com]
> > Sent:	Tuesday, May 25, 1999 12:44 PM
> > To:	'diy_efi@xxx.edu'
> > Subject:	question on cooling system
> > 
> > this may sound crazy but I thought I'd ask.
> > 
> > question, in working on my Chevy 350 block, (valve job), I noticed that
> my
> > cooling system, (heater core, block) is not pristine. in accidentally
> > finding some heavy hydraulic web sites, I wondered if anyone has ever
> > thought of some kind of filter in the heater hoses to trap rust, scale,
> > etc,
> > rather than letting it flow through the system.
> > 
> > some of the stuff I've seen on the web, (not automotive), has been real
> > impressive looking, at the very least one might use a patch of clear
> > tubing
> > and visually see the color/flow/ air content of the coolant, might be
> > interesting.
> > 
> > thanks, Ted.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 17:06:06 -0400
From: Shannen Durphey <shannen@xxx.com>
Subject: Re: question on cooling system

Stowe, Ted-SEA wrote:
> 
> this may sound crazy but I thought I'd ask.
> 
> question, in working on my Chevy 350 block, (valve job), I noticed that my
> cooling system, (heater core, block) is not pristine. in accidentally
> finding some heavy hydraulic web sites, I wondered if anyone has ever
> thought of some kind of filter in the heater hoses to trap rust, scale, etc,
> rather than letting it flow through the system.
> 
> some of the stuff I've seen on the web, (not automotive), has been real
> impressive looking, at the very least one might use a patch of clear tubing
> and visually see the color/flow/ air content of the coolant, might be
> interesting.
> 
> thanks, Ted.
Fleet applications use this type of approach.  Filter the coolant, and
add a supplement every year.  Automotive industry recommends complete
replacement/flush at 30K for traditional coolant.  What you see in the
block is from an, err, extended maintainance schedule, combined with
tap water.  Have you found clear tubing that will survive in auto
apps?  The stuff in the shop's coolant flush machine discolored after
a year, and it had few hours on it, relatively speaking.
Shannen

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 15:38:11 -0600
From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann)
Subject: Re: question on cooling system

>Some of the long haul stuff used to/may still use coolant filters.
>
>My total summary of what I like about clear hose:    Nothing.
>Grumpy

Prolly Luber-Finer stuff, just like the big, externally mounted chrome oil
cleaners on some of the long haul rigs.

Greg
>
>
>
>| this may sound crazy but I thought I'd ask.
>| question, in working on my Chevy 350 block, (valve job), I noticed that my
>| cooling system, (heater core, block) is not pristine. in accidentally
>| finding some heavy hydraulic web sites, I wondered if anyone has ever
>| thought of some kind of filter in the heater hoses to trap rust, scale,
>etc,
>| rather than letting it flow through the system.
>| some of the stuff I've seen on the web, (not automotive), has been real
>| impressive looking, at the very least one might use a patch of clear
>tubing
>| and visually see the color/flow/ air content of the coolant, might be
>| interesting.
>| thanks, Ted.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:21:25 -0700
From: "Todd....!!" <atc347@xxx.net>
Subject: SpeedBrain... to the rescue....??

Hello all,

Jsut got back from lunch a lil while ago....

Read an article at the newstand about an aftermarket EFI computer that
uses two inputs, and no tables, for it's fuel curve, however it plugs
DIRECTLY into the EEC-IV harness, in place of the EEC-IV itself!  And
uses a MAF, so it's limited to about 600 hp due to MAF's limited clarity
at higher than 600 hp apps.... Other than that, it got TWO thumbs up by
the editors....

It's a plug n play deal, and has full data acquisition, even a laptop
dashboard program so you can use the computer instead of dashboard
instruments to guide you on your journeys...

Heck, it'll even play the SOUND back from your runs along with
synchronized instrument playback on the laptop simulated dash program!

COOL?

Have any of ya'll heard of this gizmo?

It seems as though one of ya'll coulda came up with thie system easily,
some of ya probably already have!!

Lemme know?

LATER!

Todd....!!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 18:09:43 -0400
From: "Scott Feaver" <sfeaver@xxx.net>
Subject: 305V8 convert to EFI

I have an 84 Cutlass with a 305V8 that I would like to try converting to EFI
if it isn't too expensive (its my beater car :).  Since its a Canadian car,
there is no computer in there.  It has a 4-barrel QuadraJet (I believe its
650CFM), vacuum advance HEI distributer with Accell Super Coil :), 4-Speed
Auto with 2.29 axle (low rever :)

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Scott

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:55:27 -0700
From: "Todd....!!" <atc347@xxx.net>
Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi

Thanks for those numbers man!

Where'd you pick the numbers up at?

Well that's PLENTY of power!

I'd rather have HP than lightness....

I believe this due ot the following logic....:

If you remove 100 lbs. of weight from a car, the e.t.'s will drop by .1

If you add only 10 hp the e.t. will drop .1 seconds as well!

Does this agree with ya'll's pallete's or is something in err with my
logic?

LATER!

Todd....!!

CLsnyder wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Todd....!! <atc347@xxx.net>
> To: <diy_efi@xxx.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 12:45 PM
> Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi
> 
> > I hear ya talkin rap,
> >
> > All VERY good real world advice and points!
> >
> > BUT, the LOOKS of the HEMI are AWESOME!
> >
> > How many HP do ya think are possible outaof a 392?
> >
> > What was the torque and hp from the factory?
> 
> 390 hp at 5400 stock with solid lifters and dual quads.
> 375@xxx.(300c)
> 325@xxx.
> >
> > I don't even know the bore n stroke of teh sucker, but those HEADS ARE
> > HUGE MAN!!
> >
> 4" bore, 3.9 stroke.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 15:30:29 -0700
From: ".." <rap@xxx.net>
Subject: Re: question on cooling system

If you hot tank the block and heads (intake too if its cast iron) before you
assemble it, then run a good grade of anti-freeze (add new anti-freeze each year
- -or- a pint of water soluble oil) you won't have the rust and junk to start
with; and, you're engine will run better. All the crud that has sunk to the
bottom of the water jacket around the cylinders in the block will be gone (if
done properly).
rap

"Stowe, Ted-SEA" wrote:

> this may sound crazy but I thought I'd ask.
>
> question, in working on my Chevy 350 block, (valve job), I noticed that my
> cooling system, (heater core, block) is not pristine. in accidentally
> finding some heavy hydraulic web sites, I wondered if anyone has ever
> thought of some kind of filter in the heater hoses to trap rust, scale, etc,
> rather than letting it flow through the system.
>
> some of the stuff I've seen on the web, (not automotive), has been real
> impressive looking, at the very least one might use a patch of clear tubing
> and visually see the color/flow/ air content of the coolant, might be
> interesting.
>
> thanks, Ted.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 18:33:03 EDT
From: A70Duster@xxx.com
Subject: Re: alternative engines, now loosing tenths

I believe Car Craft did an article on that one last year as a BIG no no.

It varies way too much.

Took a '74 Dart at 3450 pound at 14.2's

Put the same drive train into a '70 Duster at 2850 (roughly a delta of 600 
lbs) and ran 13.0's.

Or 0.2 sec per 100 pounds.

See ya,

Mike

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 18:33:03 -0400
From: Frederic Breitwieser <frederic@xxx.com>
Subject: Re: 305V8 convert to EFI

> I have an 84 Cutlass with a 305V8 that I would like to try converting to EFI
> if it isn't too expensive (its my beater car :).  Since its a Canadian car,
> there is no computer in there.  It has a 4-barrel QuadraJet (I believe its
> 650CFM), vacuum advance HEI distributer with Accell Super Coil :), 4-Speed
> Auto with 2.29 axle (low rever :)

You have many options.

1. Holley 4D or 4DI system.  Carb-like creature that attaches to your
existing intake, and adjust electronically to your tastes.

2. Find a TBI system on a 350cid engine (Trucks especially).  Make a
carb plate that converts the 2-bbl TBI system to the 4bbl intake, or
swap the intakes out, attach computer, wires, and you're done.  Junkyard
cost with the intake (at my local get-grimy-you-pull-it) is about 200
bucks.

3. Find a 305/350 Camaro/Firebird/Monte with the TPI setup, and leach. 
About the same price give or take a few bucks.

4. Swap entire engine with an EFI engine (sometimes about 300-400 bucks
complete).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 18:43:32 -0400
From: "CLsnyder" <claresnyder@xxx.com>
Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Todd....!! <atc347@xxx.net>
To: <diy_efi@xxx.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi


> Thanks for those numbers man!
>
> Where'd you pick the numbers up at?
>
> Well that's PLENTY of power!
>
> I'd rather have HP than lightness....
>
I've been a Mopar Man for years - owned a 241 cu Hemi Coronet (1953) among
others. Interest in old cars has had me owning, over the years, a '28 chevy
national, '35 chevy master, 37 hudson terraplane, '53 coronet sierra (hemi),
'57 fargo custom express(rarest truck produced by chrysler since the 2nd
war), '63 valiant 170, '49 VW beetle, etc. etc.

Have collected a LOT of info over the years - service data books, catalogs,
etc.

> I believe this due ot the following logic....:
>
> If you remove 100 lbs. of weight from a car, the e.t.'s will drop by .1
>
> If you add only 10 hp the e.t. will drop .1 seconds as well!

depends on the overall weight of the vehicle. If 100 lbs is .5% of vehicle
weight it makes les difference than if it is 5%.
If 10hp is .5% of power it makes less difference than if it is 5%.
>
> Does this agree with ya'll's pallete's or is something in err with my
> logic?
>
> LATER!
>
> Todd....!!
>
> CLsnyder wrote:
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Todd....!! <atc347@xxx.net>
> > To: <diy_efi@xxx.edu>
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 12:45 PM
> > Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi
> >
> > > I hear ya talkin rap,
> > >
> > > All VERY good real world advice and points!
> > >
> > > BUT, the LOOKS of the HEMI are AWESOME!
> > >
> > > How many HP do ya think are possible outaof a 392?
> > >
> > > What was the torque and hp from the factory?
> >
> > 390 hp at 5400 stock with solid lifters and dual quads.
> > 375@xxx.(300c)
> > 325@xxx.
> > >
> > > I don't even know the bore n stroke of teh sucker, but those HEADS ARE
> > > HUGE MAN!!
> > >
> > 4" bore, 3.9 stroke.
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 18:56:08 -0400
From: Shannen Durphey <shannen@xxx.com>
Subject: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.

Yeah.  Read about ION, then talk to Gar.
Shannen

d houlton x0710 wrote:
> 
> Is anybody here working on some sort of ignition retarding knock sensor?
> I know the basics of how they work, but have seen a lot of discussion
> in the past couple years about how difficult it is to filter the
> sensor output accurately, especially when dealing with different engines
> and sensor locations.
> 
> I'm having a serious problem with knock on my turbo'd engine.  To the
> point I'm actually considering dishing out the $400 - $500 (or more)
> for the J&S knock sensor system.  I've found a lot of reviews of it on
> the net and it does seem to work as advertised.  It has the ability to
> retard individual knocking cylinders instead of all cylinders when
> knock is present.
> 
> Thought I'd try the list first to see if there was a project in prgress
> that I could maybe get in on and help out any way I could.  Or, if
> maybe there is already a DIY kit someone is working/developing on that
> they're considering selling.
> 
> thanks
> --Dan
> houlster@xxx.com
> http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/amigo.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:12:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jim Davies <jimd@xxx.ca>
Subject: Re: question on cooling system

On Tue, 25 May 1999, Bruce Plecan wrote:

> 
> My total summary of what I like about clear hose:    Nothing.
> Grumpy
> 
Agreed. Cheap junk. There is a name for people that use it in cars:
customer.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 19:14:33 -0400
From: "C. Brooks" <cbrooks1@xxx.net>
Subject: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.

Has the engine always knocked, or did it begin recently?

Charles Brooks

- -----Original Message-----
From: Falb, John <John.Falb@xxx.Com>
To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu>
Date: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 8:13 PM
Subject: RE: Ignition retard knock sensor.


>I'm having a serious problem with knock on my turbo'd engine.  To the
>point I'm actually considering dishing out the $400 - $500 (or more)
>for the J&S knock sensor system.  
><snip>
>
>
>You can get it for more like 250.00 from J&S, and yes they work. But they
>are not a good solution for a constantly knocking engine. They will retard
>too much and take too long to recover. They really shine when you have
>occasional knock and don't want to harm the engine.
>
>John Falb 
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 19:33:09 -0400
From: David Piper <dapiper@xxx.net>
Subject: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.

I have schematic of orig Carter knock eliminator.  Understand that each
engine has unique acoustic profile that may require filtering to be
effective.  I applied MSD knock detector to my Z on DynoJet to no avail.

Better design uses DSP customized to engine.



At 12:26 PM 5/25/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Is anybody here working on some sort of ignition retarding knock sensor?
>I know the basics of how they work, but have seen a lot of discussion
>in the past couple years about how difficult it is to filter the 
>sensor output accurately, especially when dealing with different engines
>and sensor locations.
>
>I'm having a serious problem with knock on my turbo'd engine.  To the
>point I'm actually considering dishing out the $400 - $500 (or more)
>for the J&S knock sensor system.  I've found a lot of reviews of it on
>the net and it does seem to work as advertised.  It has the ability to
>retard individual knocking cylinders instead of all cylinders when
>knock is present.
>
>Thought I'd try the list first to see if there was a project in prgress
>that I could maybe get in on and help out any way I could.  Or, if
>maybe there is already a DIY kit someone is working/developing on that 
>they're considering selling.
>
>thanks
>--Dan
>houlster@xxx.com
>http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/amigo.htm

TurboDave 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 19:16:41 -0700
From: rr <RRauscher@xxx.com>
Subject: Re: question on cooling system

I find that at the very least, run distilled water and
antifreeze.

World of difference...

BobR.

>this may sound crazy but I thought I'd ask.
>
>question, in working on my Chevy 350 block, (valve job), I noticed that my
>cooling system, (heater core, block) is not pristine. in accidentally
>finding some heavy hydraulic web sites, I wondered if anyone has ever
>thought of some kind of filter in the heater hoses to trap rust, scale, etc,
>rather than letting it flow through the system.
>
>some of the stuff I've seen on the web, (not automotive), has been real
>impressive looking, at the very least one might use a patch of clear tubing
>and visually see the color/flow/ air content of the coolant, might be
>interesting.
>
>thanks, Ted.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 20:20:52 EDT
From: AL8001@xxx.com
Subject: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.

In a message dated 99-05-25 19:34:40 EDT, dapiper@xxx.net writes:

>I have schematic of orig Carter knock eliminator.  Understand that each
>engine has unique acoustic profile that may require filtering to be
>effective.  I applied MSD knock detector to my Z on DynoJet to no avail.
>
>Better design uses DSP customized to engine.

Was this schematic posted of the web?  I would like to get a copy if it's 
online.

Thanks
Harold

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 08:50:49 +0800
From: dzorde@xxx.com
Subject: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging

Hello fellow diy's,

Been of the list a while as I have changed jobs (took a while to get a new email
going).  Anyway, I tried getting to Bruce's calculation page as I was hoping for
a guiding formula for selecting compression ratio (CR) based on s/c boost,
however I keep getting the message the page is not available (anyone else having
problems accessing it from the efi332 home page ?).

Does anyone have anything I can use as a guide for calculating max possible CR
on a forced induction engine ?  I know the standard formula but it doesn't take
boost into account.

If there is no such formula, what would be a feasible CR in a Fiat 903cc motor
running max 16PSI boost ? (8:1, 7:1 ?)  Looking at running on standard 96 octane
leaded or possibly 100 avgas.

Thanks in advance

Dan  dzorde@xxx.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 20:58:39 -0400
From: David Piper <dapiper@xxx.net>
Subject: Re: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging

Run 8:1

At 08:50 AM 5/26/99 +0800, you wrote:
>
>
>Hello fellow diy's,
>
>Been of the list a while as I have changed jobs (took a while to get a new 
>email
>going).  Anyway, I tried getting to Bruce's calculation page as I was hoping 
>for
>a guiding formula for selecting compression ratio (CR) based on s/c boost,
>however I keep getting the message the page is not available (anyone else 
>having
>problems accessing it from the efi332 home page ?).
>
>Does anyone have anything I can use as a guide for calculating max possible CR
>on a forced induction engine ?  I know the standard formula but it doesn't
take
>boost into account.
>
>If there is no such formula, what would be a feasible CR in a Fiat 903cc motor
>running max 16PSI boost ? (8:1, 7:1 ?)  Looking at running on standard 96 
>octane
>leaded or possibly 100 avgas.
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>Dan  dzorde@xxx.com
>

TurboDave 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 18:05:10 -0700
From: "James Thomas" <jtvol@xxx.com>
Subject: Bosch D-Jetronic

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Here is a good one for you guys.  I own a Volvo Specialty Service in =
California.  I am 50 years old and an old SCCA racer (used to race in =
E-Production in a '58 Porsche Speedster in the 1970's).  I am completing =
a new project for SCCA racing, a 1971 Volvo 142 to compete in ITB.  =
Pretty much got all the tricks down.  This car is brand new from the =
ground up (every nut, bolt and molecule).  Got all the latest trick =
ideas from my other Volvo ITB racers that I have been helping for the =
last few years.  I am planning this one to be a world beater ( if I can =
still drive ).  Here is the question...I am having a problem finding a =
schematic of the D-Jetronic control unit (MPC) so I can adjust the fuel =
mixture in different ranges.  I don't want to mess with the head temp =
sensor resistance as it seems to mess up the injection timing, got to =
work on the inside.  Haven't gotten much from Bosch.  Need some =
engineering brains who might have some thoughts on modifying the innards =
of this unit.
Any thoughts out there?
James Thomas
James Thomas Independent Volvo Service

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Here is a good one for you guys.&nbsp; =
I own a=20
Volvo Specialty Service in California.&nbsp; I am 50 years old and an =
old SCCA=20
racer (used to race in E-Production in a '58 Porsche Speedster in the=20
1970's).&nbsp; I am completing a new project for SCCA racing, a 1971 =
Volvo 142=20
to compete in ITB.&nbsp; Pretty much got all the tricks down.&nbsp; This =
car is=20
brand new from the ground up (every nut, bolt and molecule).&nbsp; Got =
all the=20
latest trick&nbsp;ideas from my other Volvo ITB racers that I have been =
helping=20
for the last few years.&nbsp; I am planning this one to be a world =
beater ( if I=20
can still drive ).&nbsp; Here is the question...I am having a problem =
finding a=20
schematic of&nbsp;the D-Jetronic control unit (MPC) so I can adjust the =
fuel=20
mixture in different ranges.&nbsp;&nbsp;I don't want to mess with the =
head temp=20
sensor resistance&nbsp;as it seems to mess up the injection timing, got =
to work=20
on the inside.  Haven't gotten much from Bosch.&nbsp; Need some =
engineering=20
brains who might have some thoughts on modifying the innards of this=20
unit.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Any thoughts out there?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">James Thomas</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">James Thomas Independent Volvo=20
Service</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEA6D9.20C75140--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 18:43:25 -0700 (MST)
From: Daniel Houlton <houlster@xxx.com>
Subject: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.

C. Brooks wrote:
> 
> Has the engine always knocked, or did it begin recently?
> 
> Charles Brooks

Nope.  Mysteriously, it started after I added the turbo :)  I have other
things I need to fix like getting an intercooler installed and getting a
cold air induction system set up that will help a lot, but I don't know
how long that'll take me and I'm still concerned that it won't eliminate
the knock.

I've set the timing back to stock from having it advanced a bit pre-
turbo and that helped.  Also, I'm running water injection but want to
eliminate that as well.  I recently made a round trip of about 9 hours
each way (a few days apart).  Loaded down with a roof rack, camping
supplies, tools and spare parts (and a dog) and I was running a constant 5
psi of boost at 65 - 70 mph and 8 psi on the big hills.  Water tank ran
dry in the first 30 - 45 minutes.

Knock isn't so bad on premium, but I'd like to run mid (or even low)
octane fuel without a problem.


- --Dan
houlster@xxx.com
http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/amigo.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 19:22:00 -0500
From: dave.williams@xxx.us (Dave Williams)
Subject: question on cooling system

- -> thought of some kind of filter in the heater hoses to trap rust,
- -> scale, etc, rather than letting it flow through the system.

 Big trucks do that.  If you look in a Fram catalog, they have a remote
mount coolant filter bracket for $15.  I'm running a 1 quart Wix filter
that cost $10.  They make filters with built-in additive packages; the
one I'm running is just a filter.

==dave.williams@xxx.us======================================
I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you?
my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM |   who, who?
=================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm
                                

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 22:48:15 -0400
From: Shannen Durphey <shannen@xxx.com>
Subject: Re: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging

dzorde@xxx.com wrote:
> 
> Hello fellow diy's,
> 
>   Anyway, I tried getting to Bruce's calculation page as I was hoping for
> a guiding formula for selecting compression ratio (CR) based on s/c boost,
> however I keep getting the message the page is not available (anyone else having
> problems accessing it from the efi332 home page ?).
> 
<snip>
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Dan  dzorde@xxx.com
I use this link: 
http://sura1.jlab.org/~grippo/auto_noframe.html
I have trouble with the frames.
Shannen

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 22:08:42 -0500 (CDT)
From: eclark@xxx.com
Subject: Re: question on cooling system

JC Whitney

> I remember seeing in a catalog a while back, may have been summit or Jegs, a
> filter that went inline with the upper radiator hose... It was about $10.00
> or $15.00
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 06:24:32 +0300
From: "Tom Bennett" <tcb123@xxx.qa>
Subject: Re: question on cooling system

Ted,
Check this page out, We have been using Gano filters for years.
http://www.nettally.com/palmk/GanoFilterCleanout.html

regards
Tom

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Stowe, Ted-SEA <StowT@xxx.com>
To: <diy_efi@xxx.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 8:43 PM
Subject: question on cooling system


> this may sound crazy but I thought I'd ask.
>
> question, in working on my Chevy 350 block, (valve job), I noticed that my
> cooling system, (heater core, block) is not pristine. in accidentally
> finding some heavy hydraulic web sites, I wondered if anyone has ever
> thought of some kind of filter in the heater hoses to trap rust, scale,
etc,
> rather than letting it flow through the system.
>
> some of the stuff I've seen on the web, (not automotive), has been real
> impressive looking, at the very least one might use a patch of clear
tubing
> and visually see the color/flow/ air content of the coolant, might be
> interesting.
>
> thanks, Ted.
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 23:30:55 -0400
From: "Bruce Plecan" <nacelp@xxx.net>
Subject: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.

Your expecting to run 5 PSI boost steady state??....
I really don't know of anything other than a farm tractor that can do that.
That is a tremendous load...
Doc


| Loaded down with a roof rack, camping
| supplies, tools and spare parts (and a dog) and I was running a constant 5
| psi of boost at 65 - 70 mph and 8 psi on the big hills.  Water tank ran
| dry in the first 30 - 45 minutes.
| Knock isn't so bad on premium, but I'd like to run mid (or even low)
| octane fuel without a problem.
| --Dan
| houlster@xxx.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 23:41:21 -0400
From: "David A. Cooley" <n5xmt@xxx.net>
Subject: Re: SpeedBrain... to the rescue....??

Speed brain is vaporware. 
The manufacturer has been saying for 2-3 years it's there, but no one has
ever seen it except for the "secret beta testers".


At 04:21 PM 5/25/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>Jsut got back from lunch a lil while ago....
>
>Read an article at the newstand about an aftermarket EFI computer that
>uses two inputs, and no tables, for it's fuel curve, however it plugs
>DIRECTLY into the EEC-IV harness, in place of the EEC-IV itself!  And
>uses a MAF, so it's limited to about 600 hp due to MAF's limited clarity
>at higher than 600 hp apps.... Other than that, it got TWO thumbs up by
>the editors....
>
>It's a plug n play deal, and has full data acquisition, even a laptop
>dashboard program so you can use the computer instead of dashboard
>instruments to guide you on your journeys...
>
>Heck, it'll even play the SOUND back from your runs along with
>synchronized instrument playback on the laptop simulated dash program!
>
>COOL?
>
>Have any of ya'll heard of this gizmo?
>
>It seems as though one of ya'll coulda came up with thie system easily,
>some of ya probably already have!!
>
>Lemme know?
>
>LATER!
>
>Todd....!!
>

===========================================================
           David Cooley N5XMT           Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net
     Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068
   Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?!
===========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 21:34:17 -0700
From: mike@xxx.com (Mike DiMeco)
Subject: GM 8321

Anyone have table info on a GM 8321 ECM?
I've downloaded the ARRN bin from the EPROM,
but I need help with the tables.

Mike

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 21:44:16 -0700
From: "Mark Romans" <romans@xxx.net>
Subject: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.

Hate to ask, but was this engine originally designed for a turbo?  What's
the compression ratio?  Bruce is right, 5 lbs of boost at steady state?  And
you want to run regular?  Loaded on Hills?
Mark
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Plecan <nacelp@xxx.net>
To: diy_efi@xxx.edu>
Date: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.


>
>Your expecting to run 5 PSI boost steady state??....
>I really don't know of anything other than a farm tractor that can do that.
>That is a tremendous load...
>Doc
>
>
>| Loaded down with a roof rack, camping
>| supplies, tools and spare parts (and a dog) and I was running a constant
5
>| psi of boost at 65 - 70 mph and 8 psi on the big hills.  Water tank ran
>| dry in the first 30 - 45 minutes.
>| Knock isn't so bad on premium, but I'd like to run mid (or even low)
>| octane fuel without a problem.
>| --Dan
>| houlster@xxx.com
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 22:14:06 -0700
From: "Stowe, Ted-SEA" <StowT@xxx.com>
Subject: RE: Bosch D-Jetronic

I had a d-jet on my 914's , I used to time trail one at sears point. there
is one outside in my 72 Saab 99.
 
I eventually built a 8051 replacement, but the original system was quite
capable, I've heard stories of guys putting roll bars in 914's and drilling
into and through the ECU and the car still ran, makes you wonder.
 
I have never seen a complete schematic, however there was a subset of d-jet
ECU's that had a mixture adjustment control on the ECU, also I have found
that old temp sensors generally didn't work, also the points used in the
distributor should be checked out. I used to disconnect the inlet temp
sensor, (not the head temp sensor), this tricked the ECU into running rich.
also another trick was to drill out the plug in the external map sensor so
you could adjust that. a long time ago I vaguely remember seeing some
schematic details in one of my Porsche club archive books, I'll check and
see if I still have it. I wish I still had that 914 too.
 
Ted Stowe
 

- -----Original Message-----
From: James Thomas [mailto:jtvol@xxx.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 6:05 PM
To: DIY_EFI@xxx.edu
Subject: Bosch D-Jetronic


Here is a good one for you guys.  I own a Volvo Specialty Service in
California.  I am 50 years old and an old SCCA racer (used to race in
E-Production in a '58 Porsche Speedster in the 1970's).  I am completing a
new project for SCCA racing, a 1971 Volvo 142 to compete in ITB.  Pretty
much got all the tricks down.  This car is brand new from the ground up
(every nut, bolt and molecule).  Got all the latest trick ideas from my
other Volvo ITB racers that I have been helping for the last few years.  I
am planning this one to be a world beater ( if I can still drive ).  Here is
the question...I am having a problem finding a schematic of the D-Jetronic
control unit (MPC) so I can adjust the fuel mixture in different ranges.  I
don't want to mess with the head temp sensor resistance as it seems to mess
up the injection timing, got to work on the inside. Haven't gotten much from
Bosch.  Need some engineering brains who might have some thoughts on
modifying the innards of this unit.
Any thoughts out there?
James Thomas
James Thomas Independent Volvo Service

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 07:09:48 +0200
From: "Gustaf Ulander" <gustaf.ulander@xxx.se>
Subject: SV: Ignition retard knock sensor.

Hi

How about the Saab APC (automatic performance control) system? Designed to
work on a tuboed engine, monitors knock and lowers the boost. Adjustable
too. See http://hjem.get2net.dk/bengaard/apc-syst.htm or
http://www.teleport.com/~bertram/volvoapc/ for descriptions on how to adapt
the system to another engine. Guess you have to be cautious that the sensor
react to "your" frequencys though...

Regards

Gustaf
- -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: d houlton x0710 <tc75918@xxx.com>
Till: EFI <diy_efi@xxx.edu>
Datum: den 25 maj 1999 21:43
Ämne: Ignition retard knock sensor.


>Is anybody here working on some sort of ignition retarding knock sensor?
>I know the basics of how they work, but have seen a lot of discussion
>in the past couple years about how difficult it is to filter the
>sensor output accurately, especially when dealing with different engines
>and sensor locations.
>
>I'm having a serious problem with knock on my turbo'd engine.  To the
>point I'm actually considering dishing out the $400 - $500 (or more)
>for the J&S knock sensor system.  I've found a lot of reviews of it on
>the net and it does seem to work as advertised.  It has the ability to
>retard individual knocking cylinders instead of all cylinders when
>knock is present.
>
>Thought I'd try the list first to see if there was a project in prgress
>that I could maybe get in on and help out any way I could.  Or, if
>maybe there is already a DIY kit someone is working/developing on that
>they're considering selling.
>
>thanks
>--Dan
>houlster@xxx.com
>http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/amigo.htm
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 07:12:52 +0200
From: "Gustaf Ulander" <gustaf.ulander@xxx.se>
Subject: Need help with Bosch part no.

Hi List

I would need some hwlp with a Bosch part number - it is a (special) fuel
pressure regulator from a 1979 (ish) Saab 99 Turbo (K-jetronic). Looks as
your normal pressure regulator, but I suspect it should reference to boost,
but I'm not sure, and don't know the "rate" (boost vs fuel pressure).

The part number is 0 280 160 208 , stamped under that is 822.

Regards

Gustaf
_______________________________________
Gustaf Ulander
Quality and Environmental affairs
Berco Produktion AB, Skelleftea, Sweden
phone  +46 (0)910-77 51 00
telefax +46 (0)910-854 93
Personal homepage; http://www.look.at/Ford_Capri

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 22:21:59 -0700 (MST)
From: Daniel Houlton <houlster@xxx.com>
Subject: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.

Bruce Plecan wrote:
> 
> 
> Your expecting to run 5 PSI boost steady state??....
> I really don't know of anything other than a farm tractor that can do that.
> That is a tremendous load...
> Doc
> 


Well, I wasn't actually expecting to run that steadily, it just
kinda happened once I got loaded down.  Doing 65 on the freeway 
empty doesn't do it.  Add the roof rack and it goes to about 2 psi.  
Actually put stuff in the rack and load the back up with a few 
hundred pounds and it goes up to 4 - 5 (hovered around 4 on the 
way there, 5 on the way back.  Big headwind.) depending on wind 
and/or any slight inclines in the road.

To say I was a bit concerned is an understatement as I didn't 
really know if it's safe to do or not.  It held up fine though 
and hasn't missed a beat.

The oil does look very dirty though.  I changed it just before
I left (at about 2600 miles) and now 1400 miles later it's looking
much dirtier than when I changed it before.

Surprisingly, I had very litte problem with knock on the trip,
even when hitting 8 psi or so on the big hills.  In city driving,
if I gas it enough to hit 7 or 8 psi pulling off from a light
it'll knock like crazy a lot of the time.  I just attributed it 
to the high speed keeping the underhood temps (and hence intake 
air) much cooler than city driving does.  Around town, I drive
with a very light foot, rarely exceeding 5 psi or tripping the
WOT switch (different story) as a result until I get things
ironed out.


- --Dan
houlster@xxx.com
http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/amigo.htm

------------------------------

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