DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, May 26 1999 Volume 04 : Number 308 In this issue: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. Emulators 7730 and dis Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. Re: SpeedBrain... to the rescue....?? Re: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging Re: alternative engines, now Hemi IAC problem solved Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. RE: 305V8 convert to EFI Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: SpeedBrain... to the rescue....?? Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. Re: SV: Ignition retard knock sensor. Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. RE: Bosch D-Jetronic Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. Re: 7730 and dis Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 07:48:38 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. I'd get an EGT, and Oil Temp guage on that, right away. I'd get Corky Bell's and Hugh Mc Innes books on turbos in short order, also. Grumpy | Compression is 8.6:1 Timing is 12 deg BTDC. And no, the engine | to my knowledge isn't actually designed for a turbo, although a | smaller version (.3l smaller) used in cars was (that's where the | turbo and exhaust manifold came from). Also, the factory shop | manual does say something about it cooling the underside of the | pistons with oil like some turbo engines do. It doesn't actually | say it has an oil jet spraying the backside though. OK, I just | checked the wording again. It says "An oil jet on the connecting | rod provides lubrication to the backside of the piston." Would | that be a cooling spray or is it just to lubricate the wrist pin? | | Also, my cooling system is pretty good I think. I had overheating | problems during extended crawling around the desert in the summer. | I upgraded the stock, single row radiator (about 1/2" thick) to a | much larger capacity 3 row core (about 2" thick) when I put the | turbo on so I think I have some breathing room there. Does that | really make a difference for extended boost? | | 9 psi on regular? Is that too much to ask? Sounds like it eh? | I don't typically drive a lot loaded down through the hills. Maybe | a half dozen times a year on various trips which I can use higher | octane gas for. I just hate having to pay for it all the time | when I actually only need it about 1% of the time. Hence the | thought of an ignition retarding knock sensor for that 1%. Also, | I've gotten quite good at driving it an avoiding detonation. I'd | hate the thought of letting (or needing to let) someone else | drive it. | --Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:09:48 est From: "Charles Brooks" Subject: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. What type of ignition and what Compression are you running? If you're running a relatively high compression ratio you may have to live with premium fuel. Adding an intercooler will reduce charge temps and help with the knock problem. If you have an MSD ignition I would suggest purchasing the MSD BTM (Boost Timing Master) module. The BTM retards timing as boost comes on. I'm in the planning stages of Turbocharging a small block Chevy. Actually I'm $1500 inot the planning stage :) I have the manifolds, turbo, wastegate, oil lines, and various little stuff. I just have to convince my wife that it's an excuse to buy a beater now! Contact me off list if ya like, I'd be glad to share any info I have found or might have. Charles Brooks - ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Daniel Houlton Reply-To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 18:43:25 -0700 (MST) >C. Brooks wrote: > > Has the engine always knocked, or did it begin recently? > > Charles Brooks Nope. Mysteriously, it started after I added the turbo :) I have other things I need to fix like getting an intercooler installed and getting a cold air induction system set up that will help a lot, but I don't know how long that'll take me and I'm still concerned that it won't eliminate the knock. I've set the timing back to stock from having it advanced a bit pre- turbo and that helped. Also, I'm running water injection but want to eliminate that as well. I recently made a round trip of about 9 hours each way (a few days apart). Loaded down with a roof rack, camping supplies, tools and spare parts (and a dog) and I was running a constant 5 psi of boost at 65 - 70 mph and 8 psi on the big hills. Water tank ran dry in the first 30 - 45 minutes. Knock isn't so bad on premium, but I'd like to run mid (or even low) octane fuel without a problem. - --Dan houlster@xxx.com http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/amigo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:23:23 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Emulators I haven't forgotten about the emulator... Got a message last night that the Gerber files were missing cut lines and alignment marks... re-did them and sent them on. Should be about 2-4 more weeks (Sigh) before the boards are here. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:07:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Ford Subject: 7730 and dis Hi All: I have a dis ( distiruterless ign sys) off a cavalier and want to know how to make the sensor wheel. what I had in mind was a 6" dia 3/8 steel plate with 6 slots @xxx. how large should the slots be? Does anyone have a bin for a 7730 app that is around 2.25L? Can anyone recommend a disassembler ( I'd preffer a unix or source code beast) Thanks Pat ( still has alot to learn) ford - -- Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 08:50:22 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi COOL CARS CL!, Never heard of a TERRAPLANE! That must be a HUGE ONE!! ey? Thanks for the enlightment of the % factor of the weight n HP! Hadn't seen it in the way you explained it! Makes more since now! Preciate it! LATER! Todd.... CLsnyder wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Todd....!! > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 7:55 PM > Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi > > > Thanks for those numbers man! > > > > Where'd you pick the numbers up at? > > > > Well that's PLENTY of power! > > > > I'd rather have HP than lightness.... > > > I've been a Mopar Man for years - owned a 241 cu Hemi Coronet (1953) among > others. Interest in old cars has had me owning, over the years, a '28 chevy > national, '35 chevy master, 37 hudson terraplane, '53 coronet sierra (hemi), > '57 fargo custom express(rarest truck produced by chrysler since the 2nd > war), '63 valiant 170, '49 VW beetle, etc. etc. > > Have collected a LOT of info over the years - service data books, catalogs, > etc. > > > I believe this due ot the following logic....: > > > > If you remove 100 lbs. of weight from a car, the e.t.'s will drop by .1 > > > > If you add only 10 hp the e.t. will drop .1 seconds as well! > > depends on the overall weight of the vehicle. If 100 lbs is .5% of vehicle > weight it makes les difference than if it is 5%. > If 10hp is .5% of power it makes less difference than if it is 5%. > > > > Does this agree with ya'll's pallete's or is something in err with my > > logic? > > > > LATER! > > > > Todd....!! > > > > CLsnyder wrote: > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Todd....!! > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 12:45 PM > > > Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi > > > > > > > I hear ya talkin rap, > > > > > > > > All VERY good real world advice and points! > > > > > > > > BUT, the LOOKS of the HEMI are AWESOME! > > > > > > > > How many HP do ya think are possible outaof a 392? > > > > > > > > What was the torque and hp from the factory? > > > > > > 390 hp at 5400 stock with solid lifters and dual quads. > > > 375@xxx.(300c) > > > 325@xxx. > > > > > > > > I don't even know the bore n stroke of teh sucker, but those HEADS ARE > > > > HUGE MAN!! > > > > > > > 4" bore, 3.9 stroke. > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:08:07 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. That does seem a bit odd to have that much boost while not under accel. I believe my 91 Eclipse Turbo 5-speed is runnin a negative pressure on the gauge at those hiway speeds... Have never found the top end on the thing, I had to let off at 135, due to lack of cahones n all... Teh road was smooth, but I was on teh feeder of the beltway and didn't want to come up on a civilian pullin out of a turnaround spot or somethin... People regularly run 100+ on the highways of Houston... And the wierd thing is is that they don't seem to pass anyone at a very fast rate! The speed limits are over 60 nowadays ya know.... However, since the Eclipse needs about $500 worth of work, the Superbee's keepin me at a sane speed, maybe a bit too sane, like 50-55 mph on the 65+mph highways... due to the gears and no overdrive and big ol 440 with hardly ANY load on it at that speed and that rpm(3,000rpm) n all... LATER! Todd....!! Bruce Plecan wrote: > > Your expecting to run 5 PSI boost steady state??.... > I really don't know of anything other than a farm tractor that can do that. > That is a tremendous load... > Doc > > | Loaded down with a roof rack, camping > | supplies, tools and spare parts (and a dog) and I was running a constant 5 > | psi of boost at 65 - 70 mph and 8 psi on the big hills. Water tank ran > | dry in the first 30 - 45 minutes. > | Knock isn't so bad on premium, but I'd like to run mid (or even low) > | octane fuel without a problem. > | --Dan > | houlster@xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:22:13 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: SpeedBrain... to the rescue....?? Latest addition of Performance 5.0 or somethin like that, on the newstand yesterday, had a test of one of em... However, get this, the _-trim supercharged Stang test 'mule's' fuel pump wasn't strong enough to even get anywhere NEAR a baseline with the stocker EEC-IV computer, much less the Speedbrain! The thing leaned out even with the stock EEC! it went from the, apparantly, all important 12.5 a/f ratio to like 13:1 and so they shut er down and swapped computers to the speed brain and continued the test.... But they STILL tried to do the test with the 'hi-po' speedbrain in the EEC's place! It had an overall average of abotu 15 hp throughout the 'useable' rpm range of the CHASSIS dyno test... What a crappy way to test a product! How hard is it and how long would it take for a PROFESSIONAL place to swap out a crappy fuel pump for a GOOD HI-PO unit at a race shop that runs dyno's for all sorts of people! This company who's Chassis dyno was used was a certified Accel DFI installation business! What, no fuel pumps layin around? I'd bet it'd only take from 10 minutes to an hour MAX to swap out the fuel pump and get some GOOD numbers!! Thanks for the info... They also said that the unit sells for like $699... They said this is the most inexpensive MAF type aftermarket unit..outside of some sorta pigy back non-programmable system.. can't remember the name of the other one... LATER! Todd....!! David A. Cooley wrote: > > Speed brain is vaporware. > The manufacturer has been saying for 2-3 years it's there, but no one has > ever seen it except for the "secret beta testers". > > At 04:21 PM 5/25/99 -0700, you wrote: > >Hello all, > > > >Jsut got back from lunch a lil while ago.... > > > >Read an article at the newstand about an aftermarket EFI computer that > >uses two inputs, and no tables, for it's fuel curve, however it plugs > >DIRECTLY into the EEC-IV harness, in place of the EEC-IV itself! And > >uses a MAF, so it's limited to about 600 hp due to MAF's limited clarity > >at higher than 600 hp apps.... Other than that, it got TWO thumbs up by > >the editors.... > > > >It's a plug n play deal, and has full data acquisition, even a laptop > >dashboard program so you can use the computer instead of dashboard > >instruments to guide you on your journeys... > > > >Heck, it'll even play the SOUND back from your runs along with > >synchronized instrument playback on the laptop simulated dash program! > > > >COOL? > > > >Have any of ya'll heard of this gizmo? > > > >It seems as though one of ya'll coulda came up with thie system easily, > >some of ya probably already have!! > > > >Lemme know? > > > >LATER! > > > >Todd....!! > > > > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! > =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 08:59:02 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging I've seen people runnin as high as 10.5:1 with a big ol BDS blower on their BIG V-8.... They were runnin alcohol however, so the fuel you stated you will be using is an important factor.... I'd go with the 8:1 as well... Another tidbit that may or may not help is that my 91 Mitsu Eclipse Turbo 5-speed had only 120 lbs. of compression pressure on all four sylinders.... Whereas my 69 440 in my 70 Superbee blew 205 in most of the cylinders... It has flat tops with open chambered heads, and should be at about high 10.x:1 compression... Somethin to think about.... LATER! Todd....!! http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/toddlnk.htm David Piper wrote: > > Run 8:1 > > At 08:50 AM 5/26/99 +0800, you wrote: > > > > > >Hello fellow diy's, > > > >Been of the list a while as I have changed jobs (took a while to get a new > >email > >going). Anyway, I tried getting to Bruce's calculation page as I was hoping > >for > >a guiding formula for selecting compression ratio (CR) based on s/c boost, > >however I keep getting the message the page is not available (anyone else > >having > >problems accessing it from the efi332 home page ?). > > > >Does anyone have anything I can use as a guide for calculating max possible CR > >on a forced induction engine ? I know the standard formula but it doesn't > take > >boost into account. > > > >If there is no such formula, what would be a feasible CR in a Fiat 903cc motor > >running max 16PSI boost ? (8:1, 7:1 ?) Looking at running on standard 96 > >octane > >leaded or possibly 100 avgas. > > > >Thanks in advance > > > >Dan dzorde@xxx.com > > > > TurboDave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 08:31:32 -0700 (MST) From: d houlton x0710 Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi David A. Cooley wrote: > > At 02:55 PM 5/24/99 -0700, you wrote: > >OK David, > > > >Ya just made me think of a question havin to do with the 'diesel' > >principle that you just stated.... > > > >Most diesels' static compression ratio's are pretty much over 20:1 > >right? > > > > For the most part... some turbo diesels are 18:1 or so, but normally > aspirated diesels are 22:1 to 25:1 CR > > >Why don't they just squirt regular fuel in at these temps instead of > >diesel? > > > > the rate of combustion would be too high and the detonation resistance too > low... Basically would blow the heads right off the engine! > (Seen it happen on a mercedes 300D... guy filled up with Regular gas and > drove off... about a block later, heard a large BOOM and he was at the side > of the road with lots of smoke... Opened the hood and it appeared to have > sheared the head bolts... head was about 1/4" above the block!) Yeah, but isn't that because the injection system is tuned for diesel? Couldn't injecting gasoline still work if the injection system was calibrated for gasoline? i.e. maybe inject it at a slower rate? - --Dan houlster@xxx.com http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/amigo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:44:11 -0600 From: "M. Jones" Subject: IAC problem solved Well, took the boat (with the 4D system) out of storage last weekend and tuned it up. Had a problem last season with intermittent 'failures' of the IAC. Sometimes the IAC would freeze and idle would be way high or way low. Shut down and restart the engine and it would be O.K. for a while. Finally had enough time to properly troubleshoot and found that the IAC system was actually fine. Hysteresis in the TPS (which tells the 4D to go to idle mode at 30 degrees throttle angle) as well as in the throttle linkage would occasionally not let the TPS get to 30 degrees. The ECU therefore was still in run mode, and so no IAC activity. Set the closed throttle TPS position to 28 degrees and problem solved. Nice when things work out! Mike J. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 08:43:33 -0700 (MST) From: d houlton x0710 Subject: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. Falb, John wrote: > > I'm having a serious problem with knock on my turbo'd engine. To the > point I'm actually considering dishing out the $400 - $500 (or more) > for the J&S knock sensor system. > > > > You can get it for more like 250.00 from J&S, and yes they work. But they Do you happen to have a contact for them? I've done a net search and found 2 or 3 places selling them. All were around $389 - $399 for the module and another $100 - $120 or so for the optional meter if you wanted it. > are not a good solution for a constantly knocking engine. They will retard > too much and take too long to recover. They really shine when you have > occasional knock and don't want to harm the engine. That's just what I'm looking for. Occasional knock when I whack the throttle open and boost jumps to 8 or 9 psi. Slowly opening the throttle and gradually hitting 8 or 9 psi doesn't knock nearly so bad. - --Dan houlster@xxx.com http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/amigo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:45:57 -0600 From: "M. Jones" Subject: RE: 305V8 convert to EFI Frederic Breitwieser wrote: >>1. Holley 4D or 4DI system. Carb-like creature that attaches to your existing intake, and adjust electronically to your tastes. Carb-like? Ouch! Mike J. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 11:45:03 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi > Yeah, but isn't that because the injection system is tuned for diesel? > Couldn't injecting gasoline still work if the injection system was calibrated > for gasoline? i.e. maybe inject it at a slower rate? Sounds reasonable, but the properties of gasoline may still be too "explosive" to be done that way. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 08:57:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@xxx.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Re: SpeedBrain... to the rescue....?? - -> Speed brain is vaporware. - -> The manufacturer has been saying for 2-3 years it's there, but no one - -> has ever seen it except for the "secret beta testers". Vaporware seems to be endemic to the EEC aftermarket... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 08:19:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@xxx.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. - -> I have schematic of orig Carter knock eliminator. Understand that - -> each engine has unique acoustic profile that may require filtering to - -> be effective. I've used the Carter boxes on several small block Chevys. None of them had any problem differentiating knock from other noise. As far as I can tell the EKE is more concerned about amplitude than frequency. Very simple analog devices, but quite effective. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:07:54 -0700 (MST) From: d houlton x0710 Subject: Re: SV: Ignition retard knock sensor. Gustaf Ulander wrote: > > Hi > > How about the Saab APC (automatic performance control) system? Designed to > work on a tuboed engine, monitors knock and lowers the boost. Adjustable I've seen the pages on the APC, but in my case it wouldn't work. It's only useful if you're using higher boost than the wastegate actuator would normally allow. It works by bleeding off the pressure signal to the actuator giving higher boost. When knock occurs, it stops bleeding off the pressure so the wastegate opens earlier, cutting boost. But, it can only go as low as the actuator will allow when getting full pressure signal. For me, that is 9 psi. I'd need to switch to a new actuator or lengthen the arm on it to get max un-bled boost at say 5 or 6 psi, then use the APC to allow boost up 9 psi for it to work as designed. It could then drop boost back to as low as 5 or 6 psi when knocking. Hmm, maybe I could cut a section out of the actuator rod, thread the cut ends and use a turnbuckle and jam nut to make it adjustable? That doesn't sound all that complicated. And it's fail-safe. If I screwed it up and stripped threads or the rod broke or whatever, the wastegate would open freely giving probably almost no boost. 9 psi is actually much higher than I had anticipated and I don't hardly ever hit it anyways. The APC then could work. It's pretty cheap too from a junkyard. > too. See http://hjem.get2net.dk/bengaard/apc-syst.htm or > http://www.teleport.com/~bertram/volvoapc/ for descriptions on how to adapt > the system to another engine. Guess you have to be cautious that the sensor > react to "your" frequencys though... Agreed. That seems to be crux of the matter for any knock detection system. I've found 2 or 3 reviews of the J & S system on Miatas though and they all seem to be extremely pleased with the results. - --Dan houlster@xxx.com http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/amigo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:28:10 -0700 (MST) From: d houlton x0710 Subject: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. Bruce Plecan wrote: > > > I'd get an EGT, and Oil Temp guage on that, right away. Geez, I'm beginning to think I've been extremely lucky so far. I did some checking into an EGT gauge a few months ago. Asked the list about it too. The AutoMeter EGT gauge was on the order of $250. I did get some leads on some cheaper alternatives, some targeted towards aviation, but I haven't followed through with them yet. I was led to believe that EGT wasn't a critical thing to monitor unless I'm running lean, which I've been using the A/F meter to avoid. FWIW, my exhaust manifold and turbine scroll housing are ceramic coated as well. Oil temp I considered as well, but with a water cooled turbo and a large capacity cooling system I felt it wasn't critical. Mayhap it is after all? > I'd get Corky Bell's and Hugh Mc Innes books on turbos in short order, also. I've got them both which is where I learned 99% of what I know about turbos and used them extensively during the installation. I know Corky stresses the importance of monitoring oil temp, but he also stated that water cooled turbos pretty much eliminated any turbo overheating problems as well, hence my lack of an oil temp gauge right now. Perhaps though, now that I know I will be running extended boost when loaded down that I should get one to know what's going on and install an oil cooler if necessary? thanks for the patience... - --Dan houlster@xxx.com http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/amigo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:44:55 -0700 (MST) From: d houlton x0710 Subject: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. Charles Brooks wrote: > > What type of ignition and what Compression are you running? If you're running a relatively high compression ratio you may have to live with premium fuel. Adding an intercooler will reduce charge temps and help with the knock problem. If you have an MSD ignition I would suggest purchasing the MSD BTM (Boost Timing Master) module. The BTM retards timing as boost comes on. I'm in the planning stages of Turbocharging a small block Chevy. Actually I'm $1500 inot the planning stage :) I have the manifolds, turbo, wastegate, oil lines, and various little stuff. I just have to convince my wife that it's an excuse to buy a beater now! I've looked at the BTM as well. It's still about $300 I think. The only thing I don't like is that it's a passive device, retarding ignition solely on boost level and doing it all the time. In the last few months, I've found that detonation is *not* directly related to boost. On 89 octane and no water injection for instance, if I whack the throttle open above about 2000 rpm, boost jumps almost instantly to 5 - 6 psi. Detonation is almost instant as well. However, if I ease into the throttle and let boost come up over 2 or 3 seconds, it can go to 7 or 8 psi with no detonation. Also, if I'm in a situation where I want to accelerate and I'm at say 3000 rpm in a high gear. I can press the throttle up to a certain point (probably about 3/4) and get say 6 or 7 psi with no detonation. If I then floor it, boost doesn't increase very quickly until the rpms come up a bit (takes longer in high gear) and the mixture isn't going lean according to the A/F meter, but detonation happens pretty much instantly. Still can't figure that one out. Boost and A/F don't change very quickly, but detonation seems to be tied directly to the gas pedal. It seems that unless you can factor in rpm (at the very least) in addition to boost to more accurately predict knock, you have to *really* retard ignition to cover the worst case, which makes you suffer a power loss most of the time. That's why I figured the active J & S system would be much better. Although the MSD also has the advantage of a much hotter spark and is something I want to upgrade eventually anyways I'm not sure how much I want to retard ignition across the board based only on boost level. - -Dan houlster@xxx.com http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/amigo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 12:52:44 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. | Bruce Plecan wrote: | > I'd get an EGT, and Oil Temp guage on that, right away. | Geez, I'm beginning to think I've been extremely lucky so far. You very well may be......... | I did some checking into an EGT gauge a few months ago. Asked the | list about it too. The AutoMeter EGT gauge was on the order of $250. | I did get some leads on some cheaper alternatives, some targeted | towards aviation, but I haven't followed through with them yet. I | was led to believe that EGT wasn't a critical thing to monitor unless | I'm running lean, which I've been using the A/F meter to avoid. EGT is critical for the novice, and pro alike. It tells you where our playing in relationship to the thermal limits of your engine. FWIW, | my exhaust manifold and turbine scroll housing are ceramic coated as | well. | Oil temp I considered as well, but with a water cooled turbo and a | large capacity cooling system I felt it wasn't critical. Mayhap it | is after all? Water cooled cartridge for the turbo has little inpact on the oil temp feeding the engine bearings.... Cooling the cartirdge is to min oil coking in the turbo. | > I'd get Corky Bell's and Hugh Mc Innes books on turbos in short order, also. | I've got them both which is where I learned 99% of what I know about | turbos and used them extensively during the installation. I know Corky | stresses the importance of monitoring oil temp, but he also stated that | water cooled turbos pretty much eliminated any turbo overheating problems | as well, hence my lack of an oil temp gauge right now. Buzz words turbo overheating, you can percolate oil til it easily losses it ability to lubricate bearings!. | Perhaps though, now that I know I will be running extended boost when | loaded down that I should get one to know what's going on and install | an oil cooler if necessary? Measure the temp., and see where you are. Get a temp., and call Earls' or someone to get a rough idea of what you need. Why bother putting one on if it's not sized right. Sneezy | thanks for the patience... | --Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:02:18 -0700 (MST) From: d houlton x0710 Subject: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. Todd....!! wrote: > > That does seem a bit odd to have that much boost while not under accel. > > I believe my 91 Eclipse Turbo 5-speed is runnin a negative pressure on > the gauge at those hiway speeds... Have never found the top end on the Yeah, but that's an Eclipse. I kinda explained this in another message, but when I'm not loaded down, I'm at vacuum while cruising at 65 as well. Add the roof rack and put stuff in it and it makes my aerodynamic brick seem more like an aerodynamic barn door. Throw a few hundred pounds in back and I'm rapidly approaching 5000 lbs and barn (not just barn door) status. Also, at 5 lbs of boost, my little engine is still only putting out probably about 155 hp at the flywheel (120 stock). Plus, I'm sure I have a *bit* more in drive train losses than an Eclipse does. Pushing a 5000 lb barn door at 65 mph takes considerably more hp than does a slippery little sports car. > thing, I had to let off at 135, due to lack of cahones n all... Teh :) I think about 85 is the highest I'll ever try and see in my truck. - --Dan houlster@xxx.com http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/amigo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:20:15 -0700 From: "James Montebello" Subject: RE: Bosch D-Jetronic This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_00B5_01BEA761.596CC740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You might consult with VW and Porsche types. D-Jet was used extensively in the early '70s on a number of VW models, and the Porsche 914. There are some 914 web sites that offer detailed info on D-Jet, at least as used by the Germans. Charles Pobst's book on Bosch injection systems also covers D-Jet in detail. My take on this is that you'd be better off replacing the OEM analog ECU with a digital version that you could remap at will. james montebello -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of James Thomas Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 6:05 PM To: DIY_EFI@xxx.edu Subject: Bosch D-Jetronic Here is a good one for you guys. I own a Volvo Specialty Service in California. I am 50 years old and an old SCCA racer (used to race in E-Production in a '58 Porsche Speedster in the 1970's). I am completing a new project for SCCA racing, a 1971 Volvo 142 to compete in ITB. Pretty much got all the tricks down. This car is brand new from the ground up (every nut, bolt and molecule). Got all the latest trick ideas from my other Volvo ITB racers that I have been helping for the last few years. I am planning this one to be a world beater ( if I can still drive ). Here is the question...I am having a problem finding a schematic of the D-Jetronic control unit (MPC) so I can adjust the fuel mixture in different ranges. I don't want to mess with the head temp sensor resistance as it seems to mess up the injection timing, got to work on the inside. Haven't gotten much from Bosch. Need some engineering brains who might have some thoughts on modifying the innards of this unit. Any thoughts out there? James Thomas James Thomas Independent Volvo Service - ------=_NextPart_000_00B5_01BEA761.596CC740 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
You=20 might consult with VW and Porsche types.  D-Jet was used = extensively in the=20 early '70s on
a number of VW models, and the Porsche 914.  = There are=20 some 914 web sites that offer detailed
info on D-Jet, at least as used by the=20 Germans.
 
Charles Pobst's book on Bosch injection systems also covers = D-Jet in=20 detail.
 
My=20 take on this is that you'd be better off replacing the OEM analog ECU = with a=20 digital version that
you=20 could remap at will.
 
james=20 montebello
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu=20 [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of = James=20 Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 6:05 PM
To:=20 DIY_EFI@xxx.edu
Subject: Bosch=20 D-Jetronic

Here is a good one for you = guys.  I own=20 a Volvo Specialty Service in California.  I am 50 years old and = an old=20 SCCA racer (used to race in E-Production in a '58 Porsche Speedster = in the=20 1970's).  I am completing a new project for SCCA racing, a 1971 = Volvo=20 142 to compete in ITB.  Pretty much got all the tricks = down.  This=20 car is brand new from the ground up (every nut, bolt and = molecule). =20 Got all the latest trick ideas from my other Volvo ITB racers = that I=20 have been helping for the last few years.  I am planning this = one to be=20 a world beater ( if I can still drive ).  Here is the = question...I am=20 having a problem finding a schematic of the D-Jetronic control = unit=20 (MPC) so I can adjust the fuel mixture in different = ranges.  I=20 don't want to mess with the head temp sensor resistance as it = seems to=20 mess up the injection timing, got to work on the inside. Haven't = gotten much=20 from Bosch.  Need some engineering brains who might have some = thoughts=20 on modifying the innards of this unit.
Any thoughts out = there?
James Thomas
James Thomas Independent Volvo=20 Service
- ------=_NextPart_000_00B5_01BEA761.596CC740-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:23:46 -0700 (MST) From: Daniel Houlton Subject: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. Bruce Plecan wrote: > > EGT is critical for the novice, and pro alike. It tells you where our > playing in relationship to the thermal limits of your engine. Well then, it sounds like I should make that and an oil temp gauge a high priority before any extended trips. > > Water cooled cartridge for the turbo has little inpact on the oil temp > feeding the engine bearings.... Cooling the cartirdge is to min oil coking > in the turbo. The way I thought it worked was that the oil was over heated by the turbo. A water cooled cartridge cools the cartridge and prevents excessive heat from transferring to the oil. Is this not true or is it just the case that it reduces the heat transfer to the oil, but not necessarilly enough to not worry about it? > > Buzz words turbo overheating, you can percolate oil til it easily losses it > ability to lubricate bearings!. Would excessively dirty oil after relatively few miles (about 1400) be an indication of overheating the oil? I attributed the dirtyness to excessive blowby from running boost continuously for such a long period of time on a high mileage engine (it's got about 100,000 on the clock). It only happened during the trip. Prior oil changes (only one at about 2600 miles) with the turbo looked normal. > > | Perhaps though, now that I know I will be running extended boost when > | loaded down that I should get one to know what's going on and install > | an oil cooler if necessary? > > Measure the temp., and see where you are. Get a temp., and call Earls' or > someone to get a rough idea of what you need. Why bother putting one on if > it's not sized right. Good point. - --Dan houlster@xxx.com http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/amigo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 13:27:13 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: 7730 and dis Subject: 7730 and dis | Does anyone have a bin for a 7730 app that is around 2.25L? DIS-Ditributor-TBI-TPI-4cyl-6cyl. I've just quit assuming.. Grumpy | Can anyone recommend a disassembler ( I'd preffer a unix or source code beast) | Thanks | Pat ( still has alot to learn) ford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:49:08 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. How did it drive before the turbo? If it takes 5 psi steady state now, before the turbo it should not have been able to maintain speed. It sounds like the turbo addition has not improved power so much as it has increased detonation. What is the exhaust pressure while you are cruising at 5 psi boost, both before and after the turbo? Maybe the exhaust is plugged up, or just plain restrictive. Gary Derian > Nope. Mysteriously, it started after I added the turbo :) I have other > things I need to fix like getting an intercooler installed and getting a > cold air induction system set up that will help a lot, but I don't know > how long that'll take me and I'm still concerned that it won't eliminate > the knock. > > I've set the timing back to stock from having it advanced a bit pre- > turbo and that helped. Also, I'm running water injection but want to > eliminate that as well. I recently made a round trip of about 9 hours > each way (a few days apart). Loaded down with a roof rack, camping > supplies, tools and spare parts (and a dog) and I was running a constant 5 > psi of boost at 65 - 70 mph and 8 psi on the big hills. Water tank ran > dry in the first 30 - 45 minutes. > > Knock isn't so bad on premium, but I'd like to run mid (or even low) > octane fuel without a problem. > > > --Dan > houlster@xxx.com > http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/amigo.htm ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #308 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".