DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, May 26 1999 Volume 04 : Number 309 In this issue: Re: 305V8 convert to EFI EGT gauge (was: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.) Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. RE: 305V8 convert to EFI Re: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. Recall List Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging Re: 305V8 convert to EFI Re: 305V8 convert to EFI EEC -IV bins back online RE: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging Re: EGT gauge (was: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.) Re: EGT gauge (was: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.) Re: EGT gauge (was: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.) [none] Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging Re: EEC -IV bins back online RE: Ignition retard knock sensor. Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? Re: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging EEC BIns corrected Web Links Re: Re: Re: EGT gauge (was: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.) Re: Re: v8 block thread cleaning Re: butterfly valves Re: Bosch D-Jetronic See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 13:22:25 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: 305V8 convert to EFI M. Jones wrote: > > Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > >>1. Holley 4D or 4DI system. Carb-like creature that attaches to your > existing intake, and adjust electronically to your tastes. > > Carb-like? Ouch! > > Mike J. Carb-like in that it's not port injection, but throttle body. GM TBI is no less "carb-like" than the holley system. Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:33:13 -0700 (MST) From: Daniel Houlton Subject: EGT gauge (was: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.) d houlton x0710 wrote: > > Bruce Plecan wrote: > > > > > > I'd get an EGT, and Oil Temp guage on that, right away. > > Geez, I'm beginning to think I've been extremely lucky so far. > > I did some checking into an EGT gauge a few months ago. Asked the > list about it too. The AutoMeter EGT gauge was on the order of $250. FYI, I just checked my latest JEG's catalog and they have the EGT UltraLight gauge listed now. Price is $110 for the gauge *and* sender. When I called Summit a few months ago with the part numbers I got from AutoMeter, they quoted $101 for the meter and another $141 (!) for the sender. Maybe it was a mistake? Anyways, I think I can afford getting one now... - --Dan houlster@xxx.com http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/amigo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 13:55:52 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. | The way I thought it worked was that the oil was over heated by the turbo. | A water cooled cartridge cools the cartridge and prevents excessive heat | from transferring to the oil. Is this not true or is it just the case | that it reduces the heat transfer to the oil, but not necessarilly enough | to not worry about it? It might reduce it slightly. I've even heard some discussion, that the only time a water cooled center section is really effective is during engine shutdown,and it allows for some coolant circulation like the ol MG's and the thermal dyne cooling systems. | > Buzz words turbo overheating, you can percolate oil til it easily losses it | > ability to lubricate bearings!. | Would excessively dirty oil after relatively few miles (about 1400) be an | indication of overheating the oil? I attributed the dirtyness to excessive | blowby from running boost continuously for such a long period of time on a | high mileage engine (it's got about 100,000 on the clock). It only happened | during the trip. Prior oil changes (only one at about 2600 miles) with the | turbo looked normal. Part of what oil "breaks down" into is carbon. Also, as a byproduct of combustion various acids are formed which react with the oil. | > | Perhaps though, now that I know I will be running extended boost when | > | loaded down that I should get one to know what's going on and install | > | an oil cooler if necessary? | > Measure the temp., and see where you are. Get a temp., and call Earls' or | > someone to get a rough idea of what you need. Why bother putting one on if | > it's not sized right. grumpy | Good point. | --Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 12:02:29 -0600 From: "M. Jones" Subject: RE: 305V8 convert to EFI Oh, I know! Just that it works soooo much better than the carb did, especially with all the different altitudes I frequent. Mike J. Shannen Durphey wrote: M. Jones wrote: > > Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > >>1. Holley 4D or 4DI system. Carb-like creature that attaches to your > existing intake, and adjust electronically to your tastes. > > Carb-like? Ouch! > > Mike J. Carb-like in that it's not port injection, but throttle body. GM TBI is no less "carb-like" than the holley system. Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 13:54:58 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging Todd....!! wrote: > Another tidbit that may or may not help is that my 91 Mitsu Eclipse > Turbo 5-speed had only 120 lbs. of compression pressure on all four > sylinders.... > I believe that cranking compression ratio has more relation to stroke length and valve timing than compression ratio. Anyone? Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 12:32:36 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Sounds like it'd work Dan! I bet someone in here has maybe heard of some research on this priciple/theory!?!? ey? I like your turbo Amigo man! The DYNO graphs were DYNO-MITE! WAY COOL! LATER! Todd....!! - ---------- d houlton x0710 wrote: > > David A. Cooley wrote: > > > > At 02:55 PM 5/24/99 -0700, you wrote: > > >OK David, > > > > > >Ya just made me think of a question havin to do with the 'diesel' > > >principle that you just stated.... > > > > > >Most diesels' static compression ratio's are pretty much over 20:1 > > >right? > > > > > > > For the most part... some turbo diesels are 18:1 or so, but normally > > aspirated diesels are 22:1 to 25:1 CR > > > > >Why don't they just squirt regular fuel in at these temps instead of > > >diesel? > > > > > > > the rate of combustion would be too high and the detonation resistance too > > low... Basically would blow the heads right off the engine! > > (Seen it happen on a mercedes 300D... guy filled up with Regular gas and > > drove off... about a block later, heard a large BOOM and he was at the side > > of the road with lots of smoke... Opened the hood and it appeared to have > > sheared the head bolts... head was about 1/4" above the block!) > > Yeah, but isn't that because the injection system is tuned for diesel? > Couldn't injecting gasoline still work if the injection system was calibrated > for gasoline? i.e. maybe inject it at a slower rate? > > > --Dan > houlster@xxx.com > http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/amigo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 11:16:49 -0700 (MST) From: Daniel Houlton Subject: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. Gary Derian wrote: > > How did it drive before the turbo? If it takes 5 psi steady state now, > before the turbo it should not have been able to maintain speed. It sounds > like the turbo addition has not improved power so much as it has increased > detonation. The turbo has improved power considerably. I made the same trip last year. Across the flats with the turbo was 5th and about 4 - 5 psi at around 65 - 70 mph. Last year, cruise control was just to hold the pedal to the floor. No joke. I could only maintain 55 - 60 mph at WOT and most of the time was spent in 4th instead of 5th because it would just bog down. Hills took forever and even a slight headwind was horrendous. 3rd gear and 40 mph for the big hills pre-turbo. With the turbo I could make them in 4th at 7 - 8 psi boost and 65 mph. Last year the one way travel time averaged 10 hrs. This year it was 8.5 hrs. I do have dyno charts showing the power increases as well. The post turbo charts are all with HomeDyno, but it was calibrated doing pre-turbo runs against a chassis dyno run and was within a couple percent of that so it's pretty accurate. I won't be doing another chassis dyno run until my fueling and detonation limitations are worked out. > What is the exhaust pressure while you are cruising at 5 psi > boost, both before and after the turbo? I have no idea. I haven't seen pressure gauges for exhaust. Can you just use standard boost gauges with a good bit of metal tubing (like maybe several feet) tapped to the manifold and down pipe to allow the gas to cool before reaching the gauges? > Maybe the exhaust is plugged up, or > just plain restrictive. Doubtful. While the down pipe from the turbine is on the smallish size (stock one from the turbo car) the cat and muffler are both new free- flowing types. The down pipe is the bottleneck, but doubtfully enough to cause any problems. This is still a relatively low hp 4 cylinder engine. - --Dan houlster@xxx.com http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/amigo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 11:18:10 -0700 From: jq Subject: Recall List stick it 2 the dealers. get ur moneys worth. check out ur recalls at www.alldata.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 14:28:01 -0400 From: "CLsnyder" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi - ----- Original Message ----- From: Todd....!! To: Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 11:50 AM Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi > COOL CARS CL!, > > Never heard of a TERRAPLANE! That must be a HUGE ONE!! ey? Actually, the Terraplane was the LITTLE Hudson of the time - kinda like an old Willies, but a bit bigger. > > Thanks for the enlightment of the % factor of the weight n HP! > > Hadn't seen it in the way you explained it! > > Makes more since now! > > Preciate it! > > LATER! > > Todd.... > > > > CLsnyder wrote: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Todd....!! > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 7:55 PM > > Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi > > > > > Thanks for those numbers man! > > > > > > Where'd you pick the numbers up at? > > > > > > Well that's PLENTY of power! > > > > > > I'd rather have HP than lightness.... > > > > > I've been a Mopar Man for years - owned a 241 cu Hemi Coronet (1953) among > > others. Interest in old cars has had me owning, over the years, a '28 chevy > > national, '35 chevy master, 37 hudson terraplane, '53 coronet sierra (hemi), > > '57 fargo custom express(rarest truck produced by chrysler since the 2nd > > war), '63 valiant 170, '49 VW beetle, etc. etc. > > > > Have collected a LOT of info over the years - service data books, catalogs, > > etc. > > > > > I believe this due ot the following logic....: > > > > > > If you remove 100 lbs. of weight from a car, the e.t.'s will drop by .1 > > > > > > If you add only 10 hp the e.t. will drop .1 seconds as well! > > > > depends on the overall weight of the vehicle. If 100 lbs is .5% of vehicle > > weight it makes les difference than if it is 5%. > > If 10hp is .5% of power it makes less difference than if it is 5%. > > > > > > Does this agree with ya'll's pallete's or is something in err with my > > > logic? > > > > > > LATER! > > > > > > Todd....!! > > > > > > CLsnyder wrote: > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Todd....!! > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 12:45 PM > > > > Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi > > > > > > > > > I hear ya talkin rap, > > > > > > > > > > All VERY good real world advice and points! > > > > > > > > > > BUT, the LOOKS of the HEMI are AWESOME! > > > > > > > > > > How many HP do ya think are possible outaof a 392? > > > > > > > > > > What was the torque and hp from the factory? > > > > > > > > 390 hp at 5400 stock with solid lifters and dual quads. > > > > 375@xxx.(300c) > > > > 325@xxx. > > > > > > > > > > I don't even know the bore n stroke of teh sucker, but those HEADS ARE > > > > > HUGE MAN!! > > > > > > > > > 4" bore, 3.9 stroke. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 14:45:44 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging > I believe that cranking compression ratio has more relation to stroke > length and valve timing than compression ratio. Anyone? Compression ratio will affect it, but valve timing plays a BIG part in static cranking compression. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 15:19:58 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: 305V8 convert to EFI > Carb-like in that it's not port injection, but throttle body. GM TBI > is no less "carb-like" than the holley system. > Shannen This is true... however the GM TBI system requires more effort to install all the components, but is dirt cheap. The Holley setup is more flexible, can compensate for more radical cams, timing, lifters, etc, but is more expensive of course. I stated "carb-like" merely to create a visual, that's all. - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 15:20:30 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: 305V8 convert to EFI > Carb-like? Ouch! Visually... I wasn't insulting the product at all... just trying to describe it in two words or less :) - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 15:45:20 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: EEC -IV bins back online Sorry it took me so long to get to fixing my firewall... but its done. ftp://xephic.dynip.com/eec/ is where the EEC-IV bins are if anyone still wants them. - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 14:49:24 -0500 From: Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com Subject: RE: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging You are correct, The mechanical compression ratio can be 10:1 but when you check it with a gauge the effective compression ratio pressure will be on par with a 9:1 engine. Mechanical compression gives you efficiency while effective compression ratio that is controlled by valve timing gives you knock control and good combustion. > -----Original Message----- > From: Shannen Durphey [SMTP:shannen@xxx.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 12:55 PM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging > > Todd....!! wrote: > > > Another tidbit that may or may not help is that my 91 Mitsu Eclipse > > Turbo 5-speed had only 120 lbs. of compression pressure on all four > > sylinders.... > > > I believe that cranking compression ratio has more relation to stroke > length and valve timing than compression ratio. Anyone? > Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 15:17:27 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: EGT gauge (was: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.) Question for anyone who knows, WHERE would be the best place to install one of these EGT setups on the engine itself? Where in the exhaust system? I have a v-8 or two one with headers one with just exhaust manifolds whcih I'd like to throw an EGT on! Do I need one per cylinder or is that overkill? I'm sure one per cylinder would be optimum, but what are the other options? Thanks! Todd....!! 1970 Superbee w/ 440, auto, dana 60, 4.10:1, carb'd 1972 Jaguar XJ6 w/ 455 Buick, carb'd 1978 Goldwing GL1000, multi carb'd 1981 Stang, 5.0, AOD, carb'd 1983 T-bird, 5.0, AOD, carb'd 1984 Chev shrt bed truck 5.0, 700R4, carb'd 1991 Mitsu Eclipse, turbo, 5-speed, F.I.'d 1997 Stratus, 2.4 4-cyl, F.I.'d ALL FOR SALE!! HELP! Daniel Houlton wrote: > > d houlton x0710 wrote: > > > > Bruce Plecan wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'd get an EGT, and Oil Temp guage on that, right away. > > > > Geez, I'm beginning to think I've been extremely lucky so far. > > > > I did some checking into an EGT gauge a few months ago. Asked the > > list about it too. The AutoMeter EGT gauge was on the order of $250. > > FYI, I just checked my latest JEG's catalog and they have the EGT > UltraLight gauge listed now. Price is $110 for the gauge *and* sender. > > When I called Summit a few months ago with the part numbers I got > from AutoMeter, they quoted $101 for the meter and another $141 (!) > for the sender. Maybe it was a mistake? Anyways, I think I can > afford getting one now... > > --Dan > houlster@xxx.com > http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/amigo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 15:03:48 -0600 From: Brian Hartman Subject: Re: EGT gauge (was: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.) Well the best place to put EGT Pyrometers is about 1" from the exhaust port. Make sure that you have all your Pyrometer probes angled the same. Weld the bungs so that they are vertical so that none of the tips are closer to the exhaust port than another. To have one on each cylinder isn't over kill but what you can do is have bungs welded on each and plug them with a brass set screw. If you don't already know which cylinders are your lean ones you can find it pretty easily in most cars. This way you have the option to check any cylinder and compare it to a "normal" and if you decide to run one in each, you can. Talk to you soon bro, Brian Hartman 91 GMC Syclone 91 GMC Syclone <371 miles> 73 Cuda 440-6 Todd....!! wrote: > Question for anyone who knows, > > WHERE would be the best place to install one of these EGT setups on the > engine itself? Where in the exhaust system? > > I have a v-8 or two one with headers one with just exhaust manifolds > whcih I'd like to throw an EGT on! > > Do I need one per cylinder or is that overkill? > > I'm sure one per cylinder would be optimum, but what are the other > options? > > Thanks! > > Todd....!! > 1970 Superbee w/ 440, auto, dana 60, 4.10:1, carb'd > 1972 Jaguar XJ6 w/ 455 Buick, carb'd > 1978 Goldwing GL1000, multi carb'd > 1981 Stang, 5.0, AOD, carb'd > 1983 T-bird, 5.0, AOD, carb'd > 1984 Chev shrt bed truck 5.0, 700R4, carb'd > 1991 Mitsu Eclipse, turbo, 5-speed, F.I.'d > 1997 Stratus, 2.4 4-cyl, F.I.'d > > ALL FOR SALE!! HELP! > > Daniel Houlton wrote: > > > > d houlton x0710 wrote: > > > > > > Bruce Plecan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd get an EGT, and Oil Temp guage on that, right away. > > > > > > Geez, I'm beginning to think I've been extremely lucky so far. > > > > > > I did some checking into an EGT gauge a few months ago. Asked the > > > list about it too. The AutoMeter EGT gauge was on the order of $250. > > > > FYI, I just checked my latest JEG's catalog and they have the EGT > > UltraLight gauge listed now. Price is $110 for the gauge *and* sender. > > > > When I called Summit a few months ago with the part numbers I got > > from AutoMeter, they quoted $101 for the meter and another $141 (!) > > for the sender. Maybe it was a mistake? Anyways, I think I can > > afford getting one now... > > > > --Dan > > houlster@xxx.com > > http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/amigo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 17:07:05 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: EGT gauge (was: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.) All out racing, one per cylinder, 6" or less from valve, during developement. Cast iron, keeps more heat in. Tubular run cooler. Equally distant better. For racing you want max power, and depending on materials can go to where no man travels. For general street use you have to look for best resonable power. Does, 1550dF make enough difference in your testing to be worth the extra wear and tear, for what that HP is. For instantance, if you run a 13.5 at 1575, and 13.4 is done at 1500dF. Is it worth it?. That is your choice. Right now in our Puller, were running a 975dF EGT. Way too cool for max power. But, at this rate the guy that signs the checks is happy. The CID he's running is the smallest in his class, so an out right win against some of these really high rent jobs is unlikely, yet at this temp. we can do a top 5 anytime, usually better, and drive it onto the trailer. Racing can be dun for fun, and not as an exercise in check writting. Which is what he likes. Also, you can find the best fuel/timing to get a given EGT, on some combinations, you can run much different fueling/timing, for similiar EGTs. One usually makes more power. If you run the high temp, might as well make as much power as possible. EGT is for comparison in optimizing your tune-up. There are general guidelines, but optimizing your setup is all that really matters at the end of the day. Bashful | Question for anyone who knows, | WHERE would be the best place to install one of these EGT setups on the | engine itself? Where in the exhaust system? | I have a v-8 or two one with headers one with just exhaust manifolds | whcih I'd like to throw an EGT on! | Do I need one per cylinder or is that overkill? | I'm sure one per cylinder would be optimum, but what are the other | options? | Thanks! Todd....!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 17:12:06 -0400 From: "Ron Gregory" Subject: [none] 749D9B1.4732012C@xxx.net> Subject: Mopar 2.2/2.5 FI computer Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 16:10:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 I'm a sucker for a turbo vehicle. I recently bought an '85 Chrysler Laser XT turbo. Now, I want to see what makes it tick. Is there a WWW page out there with in-depth ECU info? I removed my ECU last night, and it looks like there are a couple PROMs on the main board that probably contain all the "good stuff" that we're all looking for In case anyone else is keeping track of this stuff, my Logic Module sticker reads: Part No. 5226795 Supplier 7902 Data 02/27/85 15:59:44 2 There are two chips in one corner with stickers on 'em. They look like PROMs. One sticker says "FED" on it, and the other says "5226795" and "5226794" on it. Plus... I have the Haynes maual for the G-body, and the wiring diagrams are pretty good, but there are still some holes left open. Do you know the function of all six wires of the diagnostic connector? How 'bout all the wires that run between the Power Module and the Logic Module? What is the format of the dignostic data stream? I'd like to be able to read it without dropping a ton of money on a scan tool. Please don't think of me as just another "taker"... I'm a "giver", too. I'm the guy that published the Turbo P4 doc, and I helped the author or Promgrammer to get his application working. Plus, I frequently visit CSH, HQ... to take out the trash and clean the toilets. Thanks, ~~~~~~ Ron Gregory '85 Laser XT turbo rgregory@xxx.com Garland, TX '91 Syclone '78 Malibu (5.7 Vortec TPI project on hold to get mini Mopar on the road) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 14:16:27 -0700 From: ".." Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi CLsnyder wrote: I've been a Mopar Man for years - owned a 241 cu Hemi Coronet (1953) among others. Interest in old cars has had me owning, over the years, a '28 chevy national, '35 chevy master, 37 hudson terraplane, '53 coronet sierra (hemi), '57 fargo custom express(rarest truck produced by chrysler since the 2nd war), '63 valiant 170, '49 VW beetle, etc. etc. CL; Do you recall the Dodge 241 cu.in. demo engine that was set-up as a 4 overhead cam system back in the mid-to-late '50's? If Chrysler would have made that an actual production engine things would sure have been even more interesting. As I recall (fuzzily) they were going to try to get USAC to allow it as a stock block based installation - or something along those lines. Carl Kiekhaefer (of the Mercury Outboard Motors fame) may have had a hand somewhere in there I suppose as he (or rather his staff of race technicians) developed Chrysler's race hemi's for the Nascar series (Chrysler 300 based cars) in his race shop in Oshkosh, Wi. I recall that they developed heads, cams, manifolds, etc for Chrysler - complete with Chrysler part #'s... rap ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 17:28:31 -0400 From: "SPECTRO COATING CORP." Subject: Re: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging - -----Original Message----- From: Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com> To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 4:08 PM Subject: RE: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging >You are correct, The mechanical compression ratio can be 10:1 but when you >check it with a gauge the effective compression ratio >pressure will be on par with a 9:1 engine. Mechanical compression gives you >efficiency while effective compression ratio that is controlled by valve >timing gives you knock control and good combustion. Kinda explains the 18:1 compression ratios used in all out racing engines, Doesn't it? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 16:22:51 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: EEC -IV bins back online ALRIGHTY THEN! Does this mean that we can FINALLY see your rides mang? Hope so! Post the links to your hummer and others! COOL! Todd.... - ------------- Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > Sorry it took me so long to get to fixing my firewall... but its done. > > ftp://xephic.dynip.com/eec/ is where the EEC-IV bins are if anyone > still wants them. > > -- > > Frederic Breitwieser > Bridgeport CT 06606 > > 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental > 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy > 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos > 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 16:47:29 -0500 From: "Falb, John" Subject: RE: Ignition retard knock sensor. Do you happen to have a contact for them? I've done a net search and found 2 or 3 places selling them. All were around $389 - $399 for the module and another $100 - $120 or so for the optional meter if you wanted it. - --This is their number (714) 534-6975. John will most likely be the person you talk to. Hopefully pricing will be a bit better. The optional meter is easily made for <20.00. I have the plans if you need them, basically just two O2 meter displays, one for the O2 sensor and one for the output of the module. Let me know what price you get. John Falb ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 16:31:48 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? Hey Charles, Are you REALLY NOT gonna use an intercooler? I recommend using one.... ALSO, I happen to have one of the draw thru turbo setups off of an early 80's turbo 6 cyl Monte Carlo... It has a plate for a carburetor such as yours... Picked it up for $75 at the junk yard... Th turbo bushings are shot, but it's all there! I'll need two of these units in order to try and keep up with my big ol 440, but I'll probably just end up runnin dual T04's or the like... You have a GREAT and MOST POWERFUL project on your hands there buddy! ALSO, I noticed that there is a 69 Camaro in the backyard of a house in a multi-faily area of a lil town near my work, passed by it at lunch.... Will ask how much tthey want for it... It has the grass gorwn up around it and all... May be a perfect mule for your project! Whatcha think? LATER! Todd....!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 16:34:29 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging Moving the cam timing around(i.e. retarding or advancing the cam(s)) will also change both the static and dynamic compression ratio... LATER, Todd....!! Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com wrote: > > You are correct, The mechanical compression ratio can be 10:1 but when you > check it with a gauge the effective compression ratio > pressure will be on par with a 9:1 engine. Mechanical compression gives you > efficiency while effective compression ratio that is controlled by valve > timing gives you knock control and good combustion. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Shannen Durphey [SMTP:shannen@xxx.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 12:55 PM > > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > Subject: Re: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging > > > > Todd....!! wrote: > > > > > Another tidbit that may or may not help is that my 91 Mitsu Eclipse > > > Turbo 5-speed had only 120 lbs. of compression pressure on all four > > > sylinders.... > > > > > I believe that cranking compression ratio has more relation to stroke > > length and valve timing than compression ratio. Anyone? > > Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 17:56:40 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: EEC BIns corrected ftp://xephic.dynip.com/eecbin/ NOT /eec/ Sorry about that. Though the cd junkbox door was open :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 18:08:00 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Web Links Since Todd asked, why not. Hummer stuff and Racing stuff haven't been restored from tape yet. I'm slow. I've also been hoarding GMECM stuff in my ftp area, ftp://xephic.dynip.com as well as some linux stuff. I put the GM stuff together so its easier for me to find what I need, so feel free. The digital electronics tutor is pretty kewl also (last item). In random order: Homebrew Automotive: http://xephic.dynip.com/hb_auto/hb_auto.html Low Fanglers Ball: http://xephic.dynip.com/fanglers2/fanglers.html My Father's Scout Troop: http://xephic.dynip.com/troop108/troop108.html My Dodge Truck: http://xephic.dynip.com/dodge/dodge.html EEC Bins: ftp://xephic.dynip.com/eecbin/ Other Neat Stuff: ftp://xephic.dynip.com/fanglers/ My Children: http://xephic.dynip.com/cats/cats.html My Resume: http://xephic.dynip.com/resume/index.html Mikes Jeep: http://xephic.dynip.com/jeep/jeep.html Java Applet Digital Simulation Thingy http://xephic.dynip.com/degsim/digsim.html The Hummer stuff ain't there yet... have to find the backup tape its on. Its getting there! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 18:21:34 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Ron Gregory wrote: > '78 Malibu (5.7 Vortec TPI project on hold to > get mini Mopar on the road) When you get back around to the Malibu, drop me a line. Working with Vortech heads and LT4 spec bottom end. Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 18:31:44 -0700 From: "Walter Sherwin" Subject: Re: >I'm the guy that published the >Turbo P4 doc, and I helped the >author or Promgrammer to get >his application working Greetings. What is the "Turbo P4 doc"? Walt. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 18:49:02 -0300 From: "Ord Millar" Subject: Re: EGT gauge (was: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.) What type of sensor is used... is that a thermocouple for those temps? And, is it possible to measure temp further back, like just ahead of the cats? I imagine that the heat loss would be fairly constant. - -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Plecan To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 7:13 PM Subject: Re: EGT gauge (was: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.) > >All out racing, one per cylinder, 6" or less from valve, during >developement. >Cast iron, keeps more heat in. Tubular run cooler. >Equally distant better. >For racing you want max power, and depending on materials can go to where no >man travels. For general street use you have to look for best resonable >power. Does, 1550dF make enough difference in your testing to be worth the >extra wear and tear, for what that HP is. For instantance, if you run a >13.5 at 1575, and 13.4 is done at 1500dF. Is it worth it?. That is your >choice. Right now in our Puller, were running a 975dF EGT. Way too cool >for max power. But, at this rate the guy that signs the checks is happy. >The CID he's running is the smallest in his class, so an out right win >against some of these really high rent jobs is unlikely, yet at this temp. >we can do a top 5 anytime, usually better, and drive it onto the trailer. >Racing can be dun for fun, and not as an exercise in check writting. Which >is what he likes. > Also, you can find the best fuel/timing to get a given EGT, on some >combinations, you can run much different fueling/timing, for similiar EGTs. >One usually makes more power. If you run the high temp, might as well make >as much power as possible. > EGT is for comparison in optimizing your tune-up. There are general >guidelines, but optimizing your setup is all that really matters at the end >of the day. >Bashful > > >| Question for anyone who knows, >| WHERE would be the best place to install one of these EGT setups on the >| engine itself? Where in the exhaust system? >| I have a v-8 or two one with headers one with just exhaust manifolds >| whcih I'd like to throw an EGT on! >| Do I need one per cylinder or is that overkill? >| I'm sure one per cylinder would be optimum, but what are the other >| options? >| Thanks! > Todd....!! > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 19:05:22 -0400 From: "C. Brooks" Subject: Re: Check these guys out, they should be able to help you in your quest for info on Turbo Dodge cars. Some of these guys have Turbo fourbangers in the mid 12's for reasonable money :) http://www.sdml.org/ Charles Brooks - -----Original Message----- From: Ron Gregory To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 8:00 PM >749D9B1.4732012C@xxx.net> <00c601bea6e4$f81b3700$28167018@xxx.com> <374B386F.3C91@xxx.net> <013b01bea700$04460990$28167018@xxx.com> <374C183E.375F@xxx.net> >Subject: Mopar 2.2/2.5 FI computer >Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 16:10:35 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 > >I'm a sucker for a turbo vehicle. I recently >bought an '85 Chrysler Laser XT turbo. >Now, I want to see what makes it tick. > >Is there a WWW page out there with in-depth >ECU info? I removed my ECU last night, >and it looks like there are a couple PROMs >on the main board that probably contain >all the "good stuff" that we're all looking for > >In case anyone else is keeping track of >this stuff, my Logic Module sticker reads: > >Part No. 5226795 Supplier 7902 >Data 02/27/85 15:59:44 2 > >There are two chips in one corner with >stickers on 'em. They look like PROMs. >One sticker says "FED" on it, and >the other says "5226795" and >"5226794" on it. > >Plus... >I have the Haynes maual for the G-body, and >the wiring diagrams are pretty good, but >there are still some holes left open. >Do you know the function of all six wires >of the diagnostic connector? How 'bout >all the wires that run between the Power >Module and the Logic Module? > >What is the format of the dignostic >data stream? I'd like to be able to >read it without dropping a ton of >money on a scan tool. > >Please don't think of me as just >another "taker"... >I'm a "giver", too. > >I'm the guy that published the >Turbo P4 doc, and I helped the >author or Promgrammer to get >his application working. Plus, I >frequently visit CSH, HQ... to >take out the trash and clean >the toilets. > >Thanks, >~~~~~~ >Ron Gregory '85 Laser XT turbo >rgregory@xxx.com Garland, TX >'91 Syclone >'78 Malibu (5.7 Vortec TPI project on hold to > get mini Mopar on the road) > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 18:09:54 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe Subject: Re: v8 block thread cleaning Same - I added an old reverser with gear down. Down then up without stopping. do it before you boil the block. TomS David wrote: > Ted, > > I use a tap in a battery drill after I blow it out with air. I use a very > low speed. Speeds things up greatly. > > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stowe, Ted-SEA > To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu> > Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 5:10 PM > Subject: v8 block thread cleaning > > | > |howdy. > | > |what do you guys use to clean up the block head bolt holes ? > |it would be criminal to torque my shiny heads to all that crud down there, > |which I think exits to the water jacket and or the oil pan ? especially > with > |the arp thread sealer/lube on them. > | > |I see that snap on has a thread chaser tool set, rtd-42, however I can't > |seem to find a local snap on guy to buy it from. > | > |compressed air would blow that junk down into my engine beyond any doubt. > | > |so if you were doing a valve job, what do you use ? > | > |thanks, Ted Stowe > | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 18:11:18 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe Subject: Re: butterfly valves how about posting them??? David Piper wrote: > Provide FAX no and I will send Cv vs angle > > TurboDave > > > Does anyone have a typical chart of flow vs. valve angle for round > >butterfly valves? > TurboDave (aka DynoDave) > > David A Piper, owner > Performance Chassis Dyno > 239 Beverly Road > Greenville, SC 29609 > 864-322-2737 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 16:10:03 -0700 From: "James Thomas" Subject: Re: Bosch D-Jetronic This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BEA792.36B2BDA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the response. I have been in the business for 34 years and = am thoroughly familiar with all the Bosch systems. Unfortunately I have = never been able to get a schematic of the D-Jet control unit and this is = what I am looking for. The ITB rules do not allow us to substitute = alternate injection systems but your suggestion of a digital control = unit is interesting. What information do you have regarding = retrofitting a digital unit to the K-Jet system? James ----- Original Message -----=20 From: James Montebello=20 To: diy_efi@xxx.edu=20 Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 10:20 AM Subject: RE: Bosch D-Jetronic You might consult with VW and Porsche types. D-Jet was used = extensively in the early '70s on a number of VW models, and the Porsche 914. There are some 914 web = sites that offer detailed=20 info on D-Jet, at least as used by the Germans. =20 Charles Pobst's book on Bosch injection systems also covers D-Jet in = detail.=20 =20 My take on this is that you'd be better off replacing the OEM analog = ECU with a digital version that you could remap at will.=20 =20 james montebello -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu = [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of James Thomas Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 6:05 PM To: DIY_EFI@xxx.edu Subject: Bosch D-Jetronic Here is a good one for you guys. I own a Volvo Specialty Service in = California. I am 50 years old and an old SCCA racer (used to race in = E-Production in a '58 Porsche Speedster in the 1970's). I am completing = a new project for SCCA racing, a 1971 Volvo 142 to compete in ITB. = Pretty much got all the tricks down. This car is brand new from the = ground up (every nut, bolt and molecule). Got all the latest trick = ideas from my other Volvo ITB racers that I have been helping for the = last few years. I am planning this one to be a world beater ( if I can = still drive ). Here is the question...I am having a problem finding a = schematic of the D-Jetronic control unit (MPC) so I can adjust the fuel = mixture in different ranges. I don't want to mess with the head temp = sensor resistance as it seems to mess up the injection timing, got to = work on the inside. Haven't gotten much from Bosch. Need some = engineering brains who might have some thoughts on modifying the innards = of this unit. Any thoughts out there? James Thomas James Thomas Independent Volvo Service - ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BEA792.36B2BDA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for the response.  I have = been in=20 the business for 34 years and am thoroughly familiar with all the Bosch=20 systems.  Unfortunately I have never been able to get a schematic = of the=20 D-Jet control unit and this is what I am looking for.  The ITB = rules do not=20 allow us to substitute alternate injection systems but your suggestion = of a=20 digital control unit is interesting.  What information do you have=20 regarding retrofitting a digital unit to the K-Jet system?
 
James
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 James=20 Montebello
To: =20
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 = 10:20=20 AM
Subject: RE: Bosch = D-Jetronic

 
You=20 might consult with VW and Porsche types.  D-Jet was used = extensively in=20 the early '70s on
a number of VW models, and the Porsche = 914.  There are=20 some 914 web sites that offer detailed
info on D-Jet, at least as used by the=20 Germans.
 
Charles Pobst's book on Bosch injection systems also covers = D-Jet in=20 detail.
 
My=20 take on this is that you'd be better off replacing the OEM analog ECU = with a=20 digital version that
you=20 could remap at will.
 
james montebello
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu=20 [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of = James=20 Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 6:05 PM
To:=20 DIY_EFI@xxx.edu
Subject: Bosch=20 D-Jetronic

Here is a good one for you = guys.  I own=20 a Volvo Specialty Service in California.  I am 50 years old and = an old=20 SCCA racer (used to race in E-Production in a '58 Porsche Speedster = in the=20 1970's).  I am completing a new project for SCCA racing, a 1971 = Volvo=20 142 to compete in ITB.  Pretty much got all the tricks = down.  This=20 car is brand new from the ground up (every nut, bolt and = molecule). =20 Got all the latest trick ideas from my other Volvo ITB racers = that I=20 have been helping for the last few years.  I am planning this = one to be=20 a world beater ( if I can still drive ).  Here is the = question...I am=20 having a problem finding a schematic of the D-Jetronic control = unit=20 (MPC) so I can adjust the fuel mixture in different = ranges.  I=20 don't want to mess with the head temp sensor resistance as it = seems to=20 mess up the injection timing, got to work on the inside. Haven't = gotten much=20 from Bosch.  Need some engineering brains who might have some = thoughts=20 on modifying the innards of this unit.
Any thoughts out = there?
James Thomas
James Thomas Independent Volvo=20 Service
- ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BEA792.36B2BDA0-- ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #309 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".