DIY_EFI Digest Thursday, May 27 1999 Volume 04 : Number 310 In this issue: RE: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? Re: Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? Re: alternative engines, now Hemi RE: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: EGT gauge (was: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.) '747 Ignition Write-up Re: Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? Re: EGT gauges Re: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: Re: 7730 and dis 94 Truck problem solved Re: Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? Re: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging Re: 7730 and dis 1228253 Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: [ now] MOPAR Re: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. Re: BMFC, Tiiming, and Coatings Re: BMFC, Tiiming, and Coatings 1961 Corvette TPI Conversion See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 18:28:41 -0500 From: Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com Subject: RE: alternative engines, now Hemi I like the story about the guys running at the salt flats with their Hemi powered creation, it seems they blew the engine so they went back to the hotel pulled the Hemi out of the tow car ,put the hot cam and carbs off of the blown engine,raced it , set a record, and then put the Hemi back in the tow car and drove home. You gotta love it. > -----Original Message----- > From: .. [SMTP:rap@xxx.net] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 4:16 PM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi > > CLsnyder wrote: > I've been a Mopar Man for years - owned a 241 cu Hemi Coronet (1953) among > others. Interest in old cars has had me owning, over the years, a '28 > chevy > national, '35 chevy master, 37 hudson terraplane, '53 coronet sierra > (hemi), '57 > fargo custom express(rarest truck produced by chrysler since the 2nd war), > '63 > valiant 170, '49 VW beetle, etc. etc. > > CL; > Do you recall the Dodge 241 cu.in. demo engine that was set-up as a 4 > overhead > cam system back in the mid-to-late '50's? If Chrysler would have made that > an > actual production engine things would sure have been even more > interesting. As I > recall (fuzzily) they were going to try to get USAC to allow it as a stock > block > based installation - or something along those lines. Carl Kiekhaefer (of > the > Mercury Outboard Motors fame) may have had a hand somewhere in there I > suppose > as he (or rather his staff of race technicians) developed Chrysler's race > hemi's > for the Nascar series (Chrysler 300 based cars) in his race shop in > Oshkosh, Wi. > I recall that they developed heads, cams, manifolds, etc for Chrysler - > complete > with Chrysler part #'s... > rap ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 19:42:14 -0400 From: "C. Brooks" Subject: Re: Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? OOooohh, "C A M A R O" :) Yeah sounds pretty Shweet! I intend on running this single turbo system on an 8:1 350 Chevy with no intercooler to begin with and very limited boost. As the money becomes available the intercooler will be purchased (And the Boost will go up!). If I come up with the money for the Gale Banks manifolds I'll pick them up too for some "Special" project in the future :) Charles Brooks - -----Original Message----- From: Todd....!! To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 8:34 PM Subject: Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? >Hey Charles, > >Are you REALLY NOT gonna use an intercooler? > >I recommend using one.... > >ALSO, I happen to have one of the draw thru turbo setups off of an early >80's turbo 6 cyl Monte Carlo... > >It has a plate for a carburetor such as yours... > >Picked it up for $75 at the junk yard... > >Th turbo bushings are shot, but it's all there! > >I'll need two of these units in order to try and keep up with my big ol >440, but I'll probably just end up runnin dual T04's or the like... > >You have a GREAT and MOST POWERFUL project on your hands there buddy! > >ALSO, I noticed that there is a 69 Camaro in the backyard of a house in >a multi-faily area of a lil town near my work, passed by it at lunch.... > >Will ask how much tthey want for it... It has the grass gorwn up around >it and all... > >May be a perfect mule for your project! Whatcha think? > >LATER! > >Todd....!! > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 19:43:33 -0400 From: "C. Brooks" Subject: Re: Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? Hey Todd, what state are you in? I live in Maryland and I've yet to find any people around here interested in Turbocharged V8's :) Charles Brooks ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 19:51:36 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi I won't repeat the stories about when Hertz rented GT 350s. I don't think many wound up with the right engine in them. Grumpy | I like the story about the guys running at the salt flats with their Hemi | powered creation, it seems they blew the engine so they went back to the | hotel pulled the Hemi out of the tow car ,put the hot cam and carbs off of | the blown engine,raced it , set a record, and then put the Hemi back in the | tow car and drove home. You gotta love it. | | > -----Original Message----- | > From: .. [SMTP:rap@xxx.net] | > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 4:16 PM | > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu | > Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi | > | > CLsnyder wrote: | > I've been a Mopar Man for years - owned a 241 cu Hemi Coronet (1953) among | > others. Interest in old cars has had me owning, over the years, a '28 | > chevy | > national, '35 chevy master, 37 hudson terraplane, '53 coronet sierra | > (hemi), '57 | > fargo custom express(rarest truck produced by chrysler since the 2nd war), | > '63 | > valiant 170, '49 VW beetle, etc. etc. | > | > CL; | > Do you recall the Dodge 241 cu.in. demo engine that was set-up as a 4 | > overhead | > cam system back in the mid-to-late '50's? If Chrysler would have made that | > an | > actual production engine things would sure have been even more | > interesting. As I | > recall (fuzzily) they were going to try to get USAC to allow it as a stock | > block | > based installation - or something along those lines. Carl Kiekhaefer (of | > the | > Mercury Outboard Motors fame) may have had a hand somewhere in there I | > suppose | > as he (or rather his staff of race technicians) developed Chrysler's race | > hemi's | > for the Nascar series (Chrysler 300 based cars) in his race shop in | > Oshkosh, Wi. | > I recall that they developed heads, cams, manifolds, etc for Chrysler - | > complete | > with Chrysler part #'s... | > rap | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 16:52:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Davies Subject: RE: alternative engines, now Hemi On Wed, 26 May 1999 Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com wrote: > I like the story about the guys running at the salt flats with their Hemi > powered creation, it seems they blew the engine so they went back to the > hotel pulled the Hemi out of the tow car ,put the hot cam and carbs off of > the blown engine,raced it , set a record, and then put the Hemi back in the > tow car and drove home. You gotta love it. > Sounds like the old tale about the Surfers, a SoCal AA fueler team. At a Nationals meet, they ran out of parts before the final run, so it was made using 5 alum rods and forged blower pistons, 2 stock rods with cast hicomp pistons and a hose clamp over the missing rods oil hole on the crank. They won TFE. Must be true, I saw it in Hot Rod mag... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 20:01:25 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: EGT gauge (was: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.) | What type of sensor is used... is that a thermocouple for those temps? Yes, thermocouple. | And, is it possible to measure temp further back, like just ahead of the | cats? I imagine that the heat loss would be fairly constant. Ambient air temp starts to come into play. For the home guy, your looking for trends that are repeatable. Meaning days later making notebook entries that still are relative.. Anything is better than nothing!!. If you only run one, and the primaries are 36" so be it. You'll at least have some guage about where you're at. So don't use the 1500dF as a tune to or as a safe number. Sneezy | -----Original Message----- | From: Bruce Plecan | To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> | Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 7:13 PM | Subject: Re: EGT gauge (was: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.) | | | > | >All out racing, one per cylinder, 6" or less from valve, during | >developement. | >Cast iron, keeps more heat in. Tubular run cooler. | >Equally distant better. | >For racing you want max power, and depending on materials can go to where | no | >man travels. For general street use you have to look for best resonable | >power. Does, 1550dF make enough difference in your testing to be worth the | >extra wear and tear, for what that HP is. For instantance, if you run a | >13.5 at 1575, and 13.4 is done at 1500dF. Is it worth it?. That is your | >choice. Right now in our Puller, were running a 975dF EGT. Way too cool | >for max power. But, at this rate the guy that signs the checks is happy. | >The CID he's running is the smallest in his class, so an out right win | >against some of these really high rent jobs is unlikely, yet at this temp. | >we can do a top 5 anytime, usually better, and drive it onto the trailer. | >Racing can be dun for fun, and not as an exercise in check writting. | Which | >is what he likes. | > Also, you can find the best fuel/timing to get a given EGT, on some | >combinations, you can run much different fueling/timing, for similiar | EGTs. | >One usually makes more power. If you run the high temp, might as well make | >as much power as possible. | > EGT is for comparison in optimizing your tune-up. There are general | >guidelines, but optimizing your setup is all that really matters at the end | >of the day. | >Bashful | > | > | >| Question for anyone who knows, | >| WHERE would be the best place to install one of these EGT setups on the | >| engine itself? Where in the exhaust system? | >| I have a v-8 or two one with headers one with just exhaust manifolds | >| whcih I'd like to throw an EGT on! | >| Do I need one per cylinder or is that overkill? | >| I'm sure one per cylinder would be optimum, but what are the other | >| options? | >| Thanks! | > Todd....!! | > | > | > | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 20:09:00 -0700 From: rr Subject: '747 Ignition Write-up It's Done! I have the files on 'incoming'. Look for: SPK747.ECU ecu file for promedit (worth getting) SPK747.TXT the write-up! SPK747AL.BIN the eprom image that I'm using Get'em while their hot, it's a good read... Thanks for your patience, BobR. Hi-Ho, Hi-Ho, it's off to school I go. - -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 20:26:26 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? > Hey Todd, what state are you in? I live in Maryland and I've yet to find any > people around here interested in Turbocharged V8's :) If you can stand the cat hair, come to Connecticut :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 00:34:39 GMT From: charlesmorris@xxx.com (Charles) Subject: Re: EGT gauges On Wed, 26 May 1999 13:29:22 -0400, you wrote: >I did some checking into an EGT gauge a few months ago. Asked the >list about it too. The AutoMeter EGT gauge was on the order of $250 I bought the gauge and interface box for $100+ and then discovered they wanted that much and more again for the thermocouple! Bought a K-type Inconel thermocouple from Omega Instruments for $47. Unfortunately they only last about 2-3 months of daily driving (1/16" diameter for quick gauge response). Think I'll try a 1/8" unit next, a little slower but should be more durable. You can't keep a BMW running 15 psi boost wide-open for very long on most of the roads I know... Runs about 1200 F at cruise (no boost), mounted in the log manifold just above the inlet to the turbo. About 1600 F with full boost, and 1650+ F with 40hp nitrous also on. (May not be jetted rich enough). >I did get some leads on some cheaper alternatives, some targeted >towards aviation, but I haven't followed through with them yet. This is the first time I've seen "cheaper" and "aviation" in the same sentence! ;) - -Charles '81 745i ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 21:16:13 -0400 From: Scot Sealander Subject: Re: Ron Gregory wrote: > I'm a sucker for a turbo vehicle. I recently bought an '85 Chrysler Laser XT turbo. I recently bought the ECM out of an '85 Turbo Lancer and a N/A '90 Dodge Daytona. Much cheaper than the whole car..... ;-) > In case anyone else is keeping track of this stuff, my Logic Module sticker reads: > > Part No. 5226795 Supplier 7902 > Data 02/27/85 15:59:44 2 Mine says:Part number 5226263 Supplier 7902 Date 01/31/85 13:46:16 4 > There are two chips in one corner with stickers on 'em. They look like PROMs. > One sticker says "FED" on it, and the other says "5226795" and "5226794" on it. They are 2764 PROMs (8kx8). This ECM has one that says "FED" on one, and "5226263" and "5226611" on the other. One number is the same as the ECM PN. I got both PROMs out w/o damaging the board. The PROMs are read and disassembled, and a schematic is pretty well laid out for the hardware. You will NOT be able to figure out the code without a schematic for the hardware. Pretty clever those mopar guys...... The code is pretty well worked out. They do not use interpolated tables like GM, so it is much more difficult to modify. That is, you really have to understand the code to modify this stuff. (No searching for tables!) The "tables" (if you want to call them that), are really variables to plug into a linear equation..... > Do you know the function of all six wires of the diagnostic connector? Pink is serial comm outLt Green is serial comm in Dk Blue-yellow is Auto shutdown (No idea what that means...) Lt Blue-Red is Ground Drk Blue is power Black is ground > How 'bout all the wires that run between the Power > Module and the Logic Module? Later... > What is the format of the dignostic data stream? I'd like to be able to > read it without dropping a ton of money on a scan tool. No idea yet. Appears to be wired for full duplex though. Still working on it. > I'm the guy that published the Turbo P4 doc, and I helped the > author or Promgrammer to get his application working. Plus, I > frequently visit CSH, HQ... to take out the trash and clean > the toilets. Well, Mopar seems to keep a much tighter lid on it's cal data. Might be much harder to get leaked cal data to publish...... ;-) Scot Sealander Sealand@xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 17:53:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@xxx.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi - -> > Couldn't injecting gasoline still work if the injection system was - -> calibrated - -> > for gasoline? i.e. maybe inject it at a slower rate? > Sounds reasonable, but the properties of gasoline may still be too > "explosive" to be done that way. The Bosch mechanical direct injection used by Mercedes was a slightly modified Diesel apparatus. It used engine oil to lubricate the pump, as gasoline didn't have the lubricity of Diesel fuel, and used a vacuum diaphragm on the pump to adjust for load. The Ford flathead I'm doing is using a Diesel pump with oil metered into the fuel flow to lubricate the pump, and the throttle butterfly will have electronic control as soon as I get around to building that part. The foot throttle will control fuel, the butterfly will be controlled by stepper motor. Bob Harris made a strong case for "air follows fuel" a few months ago, enough to persuade me. ==dave.williams@xxx.us====================================== I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 21:58:16 EDT From: ECMnut@xxx.com Subject: Re: Hi Turbo Ron, Scott... Might as well get these applications into the archives.. > > I'm a sucker for a turbo vehicle. I recently bought an '85 Chrysler Laser > XT turbo. > <> > I recently bought the ECM out of an '85 Turbo Lancer and a N/A '90 Dodge > Daytona. > > In case anyone else is keeping track of this stuff, my Logic Module > sticker reads: > > > > Part No. 5226795 Supplier 7902 > > Data 02/27/85 15:59:44 2 Application for above shows: 1985 Turbo, Manual Trans: Lancer, Laser, Lebaron, Omni. Xrefs to: 5226266, 5226273, 5226614, 5226618, 5226794, 5227063, 5227243 Just in case you explode it in a sick, twisted experiment... 8-) > Mine says:Part number 5226263 Supplier 7902 > Date 01/31/85 13:46:16 4 Hmm. got too much paper round here that one is: AUTO trans, Turbo 2.2 in:(1985) Caravell, Daytona, Laser Lancer, LeBaron x-refs with just 5226611 and 5227245 > > Plus, I > > frequently visit CSH, HQ... to take out the trash and clean > > the toilets. That was YOU? I was goin through the CSH,HQ dumpster, by candle light, and someone tossed a in hefty bag full of beer bottles. That was all I remembered till I woke up at sunrise, with a cat and these dwarfs looking at me. Mike V. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 19:11:26 -0700 From: garfield@xxx.com (Gar Willis) Subject: Re: 7730 and dis On Wed, 26 May 1999 10:07:20 -0400 (EDT), Pat Ford wrote: > I have a dis ( distiruterless ign sys) off a cavalier and want to know >how to make the sensor wheel. what I had in mind was a 6" dia 3/8 steel plate >with 6 slots @xxx. how large should the slots >be? No matter how large the wheel, the slots should be about the same width as the metal tip on the Mag sensors, which IIRC correctly are around 1/4" (the metal tip, that is). That's also the size of the slots in the cast-in metal wheel that's part of the GM engine cranks. We use this system on our eXperimental aircraft engines as part of our KIGN system, and we find that often the built-in linear advance curve in the DIS module itself is perfectly adequate. If you make the wheel as a flat steel plate, you might wanna use a configuration John Carroll perfected, and passed along to us, which I've put up on the FTP site, named: PlanarWheel.jpg which shows the sizing, and some slit/split openings that accentuate the flux reversals. Shown next to the timing wheel in roughly the correct mounting position/orientation, is a stock GM mag crank pickup. BE precise when you machine those semi-holesNslots, cuz even tho there's a PPL in the module to lock up the slot jitter, the module does NOT like a wheel that's made sloppy. Best to cut the wheel slots with a rotary table on a milling machine. Finally, if you wanna build an ultra-reliable racing IGN system with dual DIS pickups/coils and waste-fire coil joiners (no single point-of-failure can kill the IGN system), AND/OR add some fancy programmable advance curves, those schemes will be available as licenseable PLANS from AirSIG in the not-too-distant future. Just gotta get EGOR and KEFI out the door, and KIGN will be next in line. Gar ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 22:25:58 EDT From: EFISYSTEMS@xxx.com Subject: 94 Truck problem solved HI Everyone, I first want to thank everyone that took the time to help diagnose this thing. What struck me was someone who said to check the basics.......Sometimes people like us get so involved in finding an efi problem that we do forget the basics......my biggest problem was I did not talk to the customer long enough,,,,,,to find out the problem started almost a year ago but just recently became severe.......well I did find the root of the problem during my initial scan.....when key on was applied with engine not running and fuel pressure came up...fuel was blowing by one of the TB injectors and after disassembly discovered bad o-ring.....replaced and no more fuel leak.....still engine would run ok for a few seconds but would start running rich......had already done a compression test but turned out ok........I won't bore you guys with the details but I had to start thinking back what I would do if this had a carburetor on it,,,,and since I had verified fuel and spark it must be mechanical......so looked back over my compression chart and noticed #3 was the lowest cylinder so I checked it again and now was even lower, so checked the one next to it to verify it wasn't lower due to temp,,,,,no it was the same so re-checked the #3 in case I just hadn't cranked it enough times......guess what now it's 0 pressure......now can assume broken valve spring or sticking valve.....remove valve cover and check....no broken valve spring but intake valve is stuck down.....remove rockers and tap top of valve with hammer and... "pling"... valve comes up......solution, leaking injector, over a period of a year, has built up excessive carbon on top of intake valves and is now causing them to stick open randomly.......so anyway,,,those that want can sit back and point at the screen and laugh.....I am.......it was actually a good road trip looking back on it......cya later - -Carl Summers ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 22:32:29 -0400 From: Chris Conlon Subject: Re: Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? At 07:43 PM 5/26/99 -0400, C. Brooks wrote: >Hey Todd, what state are you in? I live in Maryland and I've yet to find any >people around here interested in Turbocharged V8's :) Replying to all in case others might use this info. Maybe try: Maryland Performance Center 301-258-8883 8029 Cessna Ave Gaithersburg, MD Disclaimer: I only ever go there to get bottles filled, so I have no idea how good they are. They didn't shoot me for driving up in an MR2, though, which says something I guess. Looked like they had a couple of service bays. Excessive Motorsport Near Manassas, VA Naturally I threw their card out just the other day. Supposedly specializing in Fords and blowers. Never been there. Speedcraft Near College Park, MD Small place, bunch of bolt-ons, I only went in to get Red Line stuff. Dunno if they have a shop or not. HTH, Chris C. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 22:36:14 -0400 From: David Piper Subject: Re: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging Keep Me Posted. What is CID? Qty Cyl? Bore size? Alum Head? RPM at max Pwr? All and more contribute, but found 8:1 lowest practical. May need to mix race fuel 30% for over 12 psi tho. At 02:21 PM 5/26/99 +0800, you wrote: > > >Thanks Dave, will do some measurements tonight and see if I can bring it back >that far without any major machine work. > >Dan dzorde@xxx.com > > > > >Run 8:1 > > > >TurboDave > > > > > TurboDave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 22:44:45 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: 7730 and dis Would you share the part no., or application of that sensor?. Does anyone know which, of that sytle sensor is the most compact?. Thanks Sleepy | No matter how large the wheel, the slots should be about the same width as the | metal tip on the Mag sensors, which IIRC correctly are around 1/4" (the metal | tip, that is). That's also the size of the slots in the cast-in metal wheel | that's part of the GM engine cranks. | We use this system on our eXperimental aircraft engines as part of our KIGN | system, and we find that often the built-in linear advance curve in the DIS | module itself is perfectly adequate. If you make the wheel as a flat steel | plate, you might wanna use a configuration John Carroll perfected, and passed | along to us, which I've put up on the FTP site, named: | PlanarWheel.jpg | which shows the sizing, and some slit/split openings that accentuate the flux | reversals. Shown next to the timing wheel in roughly the correct mounting | position/orientation, is a stock GM mag crank pickup. | | BE precise when you machine those semi-holesNslots, cuz even tho there's a PPL | in the module to lock up the slot jitter, the module does NOT like a wheel | that's made sloppy. Best to cut the wheel slots with a rotary table on a milling | machine. | | Finally, if you wanna build an ultra-reliable racing IGN system with dual DIS | pickups/coils and waste-fire coil joiners (no single point-of-failure can kill | the IGN system), AND/OR add some fancy programmable advance curves, those | schemes will be available as licenseable PLANS from AirSIG in the | not-too-distant future. Just gotta get EGOR and KEFI out the door, and KIGN will | be next in line. | | Gar | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 23:00:46 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: 1228253 Is anyone running a 88-90 vehicle with a 1228253 in it??. I'm looking for a .gdf, file to see what diacom shows, for that.. Has anyone played with one?. And bins, anything.. Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 23:05:53 -0400 From: David Piper Subject: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. >Although the MSD also has the advantage of a much hotter spark and >is something I want to upgrade eventually anyways I'm not sure how much >I want to retard ignition across the board based only on boost level. I use 35 deg total w/ my MSD TTM retard 0.35 to 0.45 deg/psi boost. Motor is Nissan L28 custom turbo w/ alum heads, turbo cam, EFI, Intercooling and 8:1 CR. Need 30% race fuel above 12 psi steady state. TurboDave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 20:10:23 -0700 From: ".." Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Usually those stories were just that - stories. You had to use modified heads to make them run at decent rpms because of the long "flexible" rockers - but they could have swapped heads and made it work unless they were running an alky class in which case you needed a lot higher compression then the stockers had. Don't get me wrong, I loved the old beasts in their time (even had a Desoto hardtop with a Chrysler 300 engine swapped inside) but you had to do alot of work to make them run well.... a cam and carbs wouldn't do it by themselves... As time passes, I suspect the stories will get better. Actually, I could even tell you a true story about a '56 Chrysler 300 that had a 45 cu.in. outboard engine mounted in the trunk that drove a roots blower with the air piped to the front into a sealed carb box - commissioned by an eccentric (and very wealthy old guy). rap Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com wrote: > I like the story about the guys running at the salt flats with their Hemi > powered creation, it seems they blew the engine so they went back to the > hotel pulled the Hemi out of the tow car ,put the hot cam and carbs off of > the blown engine,raced it , set a record, and then put the Hemi back in the > tow car and drove home. You gotta love it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 22:18:20 -0500 From: Chad Clendening Subject: Re: [ now] MOPAR Who all is playing with these MOPAR logic modules? It may be possible to eliminate alot of duplication in decoding this stuff. Chad Scot Sealander wrote: > Ron Gregory wrote: > > > They are 2764 PROMs (8kx8). This ECM has one that says "FED" on one, and "5226263" and "5226611" on the other. One number is the same as the ECM PN. > Yep, the FED one has the CAL at the beginning. The other dosn't even need to be pulled. From the few I have looked at, the lower chip ( Z22) is the same for all the 85's, even for the 4452118 MP version.It isn't too difficult to build a device to suck the program out of the board ( both chips) without desoldering ANYTHING. Take a muxed HC11, connect it properly, short the proper wires, ... run a monitor - very simple, and less than 2 minutes per board. > The code is pretty well worked out. They do not use interpolated tables like GM, > so it is much more difficult to modify. That is, you really have to understand the > code to modify this stuff. (No searching for tables!) The "tables" (if you want to call > them that), are really variables to plug into a linear equation..... > > Do you know the function of all six wires of the diagnostic connector? > Pink is serial comm outLt Green is serial comm in > Dk Blue-yellow is Auto shutdown (No idea what that means...) > Lt Blue-Red is Ground > Drk Blue is power > Black is ground > > > How 'bout all the wires that run between the Power > > Module and the Logic Module? > > Later... > > > What is the format of the dignostic data stream? I'd like to be able to > > read it without dropping a ton of money on a scan tool.No idea yet. Appears to be wired for full duplex though. Still working on it. It CAN do bidirectional BUT it isn't interrupt driven, it just looks at the Rx line occasionally. I havn't played with this MUCH but you can have it send the error codes by echoing the right byte at startup. It also should send the data at the address you send it. - send it 0x58 while running and it will send you the value there, the error code reset counter. This can ONLY be a 8 bit address. The ram is located from 0x40 to 0xff on these. it talks at 976 baud initially and can be kicked up to 7812 by sending the right code ( 0x12) while in 976 baud mode.. > > I'm the guy that published the Turbo P4 doc, and I helped the > > author or Promgrammer to get his application working. Plus, I > > frequently visit CSH, HQ... to take out the trash and clean > > the toilets. > > Well, Mopar seems to keep a much tighter lid on it's cal data. > Might be much harder to get leaked cal data to publish...... ;-) > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 22:53:46 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging I don't see where stroke length has any effect but intake valve closing sure does. Gary Derian > > Another tidbit that may or may not help is that my 91 Mitsu Eclipse > > Turbo 5-speed had only 120 lbs. of compression pressure on all four > > sylinders.... > > > I believe that cranking compression ratio has more relation to stroke > length and valve timing than compression ratio. Anyone? > Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 23:03:57 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi No. The fuel characteristics of gasoline are all wrong for compression ignition. Gary Derian > > drove off... about a block later, heard a large BOOM and he was at the side > > of the road with lots of smoke... Opened the hood and it appeared to have > > sheared the head bolts... head was about 1/4" above the block!) > > > Yeah, but isn't that because the injection system is tuned for diesel? > Couldn't injecting gasoline still work if the injection system was calibrated > for gasoline? i.e. maybe inject it at a slower rate? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 22:57:36 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. > > What is the exhaust pressure while you are cruising at 5 psi > > boost, both before and after the turbo? > > I have no idea. I haven't seen pressure gauges for exhaust. Can you > just use standard boost gauges with a good bit of metal tubing (like > maybe several feet) tapped to the manifold and down pipe to allow the > gas to cool before reaching the gauges? Yes. Any old pressure gauge will do. An old Vacuum/fuel pressure gauge or something. There is no flow of exhaust in the connecting tube. Only 1/2 to 1 foot is enough metal tubing. Gary Derian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 21:30:31 -0600 From: "Programmer" Subject: Re: BMFC, Tiiming, and Coatings Guess if identical loads and clearances exist it'll always pan out the same. Definitely more consistent with EFI controls in place - -----Original Message----- From: Steve To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Monday, May 17, 1999 12:35 AM Subject: Re: BMFC, Tiiming, and Coatings >When you test the same engine combination over and over you find that the >oil temp is within a few degrees for that given combination. If it is >different and the combination is the same then something is wrong or there >was a change. I find this very easy to believe as I have witnessed hundreds >of dyno runs over the years. > >My turbo V6 I just built with coatings takes twice as long to warm up now >that it is coated. Also I have seen a 200 degree F increase in EGT at low >speed. I haven't done full load testing yet so I can't report on that yet. > >Steve >-----Original Message----- >From: Programmer >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> >Date: Saturday, May 15, 1999 8:24 PM >Subject: Re: BMFC, Tiiming, and Coatings > > >>Greg, >> >>The only problem with testing like that is the motor had to be torn down to >>perform the experiment. I'd put little faith in a 15 degree change when a >>complete teardown would have had to be done to perform the work. >> >>Lyndon IP TECH >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Greg Hermann >>To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> >>Date: Saturday, May 15, 1999 8:11 AM >>Subject: Re: BMFC, Tiiming, and Coatings >> >> >>>>Has anyone run any "independent" testing on these barrier coatings for >>what >>>>they actually have seen as an improvement pre+post coating?. >>>> Has any one run any endurance tests?. >>>>Do I need mention that this might need a complete recal to get right. >>>>Bruce >>> >>>A fellow I spoke with at HPC told me that they ran a dyno test of a fairly >>>typical hipo 350 CID Chebby first with no coatings, then with coating only >>>on the piston crowns. Said that--with no other changes, the steady state >>>oil temperature at sustained full load dropped 15 degrees F. >>> >>>Greg >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 21:52:13 -0600 From: "Programmer" Subject: Re: BMFC, Tiiming, and Coatings Fred, Thanks for the support--I thought this stuff was a re-hash on a lot of old ideas gone south. I guess it all works out to what you "think" is working for you. Lyndon - -----Original Message----- From: FHPREMACH@xxx.com> To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Tuesday, May 18, 1999 12:40 AM Subject: Re: BMFC, Tiiming, and Coatings >In a message dated 5/16/99 9:12:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >nwester@xxx.org writes: > ><< I have no faith in some kind of coating--just like I have no faith in >Teflon > additives...instead of coating the undersides of pistons, or coating the > interior of an engine--polishing the interiors smooth would have a greater > effect of oil return, and less oil "dwell". As far as piston ring > manufacturers go--gapless piston rings and improper end gaps will always > yield differing results. You can make anything look good on a > dyno--depending on operator. > > Lyndon IPTECH > -----Original Message----- >> >Hi, > I just wanted to add a bit to this idea. most research has noted that the >"Leave it cast and paint it black" ideas of long ago still hold true. Oil is >a strange beast at times. you want to cool it and drain it to the sump, but >as it cools, it slows down the drainback. Rough surfaces increase the surface >area and increase cooling. As for teflon, the jury is still out on the >longterm results. Polishing the interior of motors has come in and out of >use. and at one time, polishing the entire crankcase, crank, rod, and filling >the balance holes in two strokes was supposed to lead to increased >horsepower, but like stuffer plates, it seems to have lost favor. Coatings >seem to come in and out of fashion. I do believe in coatings for certain >areas, but am still looking into a couple of unorthodox ones. I will give >results as they ocur. >BTW, has anyone tried the carbide cylinder bore treatment that was in the >threads a few months ago? I wondered about that with a Hard Anodized piston >skirt might affect wear. >Fred > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 23:24:58 -0500 From: "Dan Plaskett" Subject: 1961 Corvette TPI Conversion This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BEA7CE.F88F6040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I am brand new to the list so please let me know if I am outside = protocol. I have scanned some of the archives and it certainly looks as = though there is a wealth of information and experience in the members of = this list. I have a 1961 Corvette with a 350 and a 9.5 to 1 compression = ratio and race ported 76cc heads that I am converting to a 91 TPI setup. = I have the stock manifold, runners, throttle body and plenum but no = fuel rails. I just got a set of 305 injectors from a 86 Firebird on = e-bay. I have no fuel rail. I was considering building one using some = bulk fuel rail from Arizona Speed and Marine. $36.00 for 6 feet. I = have no computer or harness. What is the best way to proceed from here. = I certainly don't want to build a leaky fuel rail and risk burning up = my car but I do enjoy doing as much as I can myself. Any suggestions or = assistance would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Dan Plaskett=20 - ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BEA7CE.F88F6040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,
 
I am brand new to the list so please let me know if = I am=20 outside protocol.  I have scanned some of the archives and it = certainly=20 looks as though there is a wealth of information and experience in the = members=20 of this list.  I have a 1961 Corvette with a 350 and a 9.5 to = 1=20 compression ratio and race ported 76cc heads that I am converting to a = 91=20 TPI setup.  I have the stock = manifold, runners, throttle=20 body and plenum but no fuel rails.  I just got a set of 305 = injectors=20 from a 86 Firebird on e-bay.  I have no fuel rail.  I was = considering=20 building one using some bulk fuel rail from Arizona Speed and = Marine. =20 $36.00 for 6 feet.  I have no computer or harness.  What is = the best=20 way to proceed from here.  I certainly don't want to build a leaky = fuel=20 rail and risk burning up my car but I do enjoy doing as much as I can=20 myself.  Any suggestions or assistance would be = appreciated. =20 Thanks in advance.
 
Dan Plaskett 
- ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BEA7CE.F88F6040-- ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #310 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".