DIY_EFI Digest Thursday, May 27 1999 Volume 04 : Number 312 In this issue: Re: Re: 7730 and dis Re: Re: 1961 Corvette TPI Conversion RE: v8 block thread cleaning Re: EGT gauge (was: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.) Re: EGT gauge (was: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.) Re: Web Links Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: Re: Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? Re: Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: Prowler V6 Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. Re: EGT gauge (was: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.) Re: EGT gauges Butterfly valves part II Re: 1961 Corvette TPI Conversion Re: Prowler V6 Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. Re: EGT gauge (was: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.) Re: Prowler V6 Re: EGT gauge (was: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.) See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 07:21:36 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: At 09:16 PM 5/26/99 -0400, you wrote: >They are 2764 PROMs (8kx8). This ECM has one that says "FED" on one, and >"5226263" and "5226611" on the other. One number is the same as the ECM PN. >I got both PROMs out w/o damaging the board. The PROMs are read and >disassembled, and a schematic is pretty well laid out for the hardware. You >will NOT >be able to figure out the code without a schematic for the hardware. Pretty >clever >those mopar guys...... What kind of CPU do the MOPAR computers use? HC11 based? =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 08:36:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Ford Subject: Re: 7730 and dis Previously, you (Bruce Plecan) wrote: > > Would you share the part no., or application of that sensor?. > Does anyone know which, of that sytle sensor is the most compact?. > Thanks > Sleepy Its the stock gm sensor for the 90 cavalier snip btw THANKS Gar! - -- Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:11:50 -0500 From: Chad Clendening Subject: Re: The 2 piece systems have the the 6803 . I bit simpler than the HC11. No divide or bit set/clear commands and no Y register. The SMEC's look to have a HC11A, 52 pin PLCC type. Chad "David A. Cooley" wrote: > At 09:16 PM 5/26/99 -0400, you wrote: > > >They are 2764 PROMs (8kx8). This ECM has one that says "FED" on one, and > >"5226263" and "5226611" on the other. One number is the same as the ECM PN. > >I got both PROMs out w/o damaging the board. The PROMs are read and > >disassembled, and a schematic is pretty well laid out for the hardware. You > >will NOT > >be able to figure out the code without a schematic for the hardware. Pretty > >clever > >those mopar guys...... > > What kind of CPU do the MOPAR computers use? HC11 based? > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! > =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 08:10:35 -0700 From: "Peter Fenske" Subject: Re: 1961 Corvette TPI Conversion Hi Dan Did a tpied 61 corvette last summer Best thing is to scrounge the fuel rails Might have a mangled set around here email me offt list :peter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:01:08 -0700 From: "Stowe, Ted-SEA" Subject: RE: v8 block thread cleaning yes I just waltzed through a Snap-On truck for 10 min, $300 later... they do have a nice set of long bottom tap things made for this purpose, sort of a thread chaser. their handy magnetic light is $75, I 'd hate to ask what the vac cleaner is. > -----Original Message----- > From: Programmer [SMTP:nwester@xxx.org] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 11:16 PM > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: v8 block thread cleaning > > After hot-tanking and jet washing, all threads are re-tapped, blown clean > and where needed, sealer is reapplied to bolt threads at "torque" up time. > Hope this helps...if this is just at valve job time, to risk > non-contamination, I'd just clean all bolts and apply sealer to the > threads > again. SnapOn does make a handy air powered vacuum cleaner !! > > Lyndon IPTECH > -----Original Message----- > From: Stowe, Ted-SEA > To: 'diy_efi@xxx.edu' > > Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 6:34 PM > Subject: v8 block thread cleaning > > > > > >howdy. > > > >what do you guys use to clean up the block head bolt holes ? > >it would be criminal to torque my shiny heads to all that crud down > there, > >which I think exits to the water jacket and or the oil pan ? especially > with > >the arp thread sealer/lube on them. > > > >I see that snap on has a thread chaser tool set, rtd-42, however I can't > >seem to find a local snap on guy to buy it from. > > > >compressed air would blow that junk down into my engine beyond any doubt. > > > >so if you were doing a valve job, what do you use ? > > > >thanks, Ted Stowe > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:06:19 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: EGT gauge (was: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.) Thanks for the info Bruce! I AM learnin here! LATER! Todd....!! Bruce Plecan wrote: > > All out racing, one per cylinder, 6" or less from valve, during > developement. > Cast iron, keeps more heat in. Tubular run cooler. > Equally distant better. > For racing you want max power, and depending on materials can go to where no > man travels. For general street use you have to look for best resonable > power. Does, 1550dF make enough difference in your testing to be worth the > extra wear and tear, for what that HP is. For instantance, if you run a > 13.5 at 1575, and 13.4 is done at 1500dF. Is it worth it?. That is your > choice. Right now in our Puller, were running a 975dF EGT. Way too cool > for max power. But, at this rate the guy that signs the checks is happy. > The CID he's running is the smallest in his class, so an out right win > against some of these really high rent jobs is unlikely, yet at this temp. > we can do a top 5 anytime, usually better, and drive it onto the trailer. > Racing can be dun for fun, and not as an exercise in check writting. Which > is what he likes. > Also, you can find the best fuel/timing to get a given EGT, on some > combinations, you can run much different fueling/timing, for similiar EGTs. > One usually makes more power. If you run the high temp, might as well make > as much power as possible. > EGT is for comparison in optimizing your tune-up. There are general > guidelines, but optimizing your setup is all that really matters at the end > of the day. > Bashful > > | Question for anyone who knows, > | WHERE would be the best place to install one of these EGT setups on the > | engine itself? Where in the exhaust system? > | I have a v-8 or two one with headers one with just exhaust manifolds > | whcih I'd like to throw an EGT on! > | Do I need one per cylinder or is that overkill? > | I'm sure one per cylinder would be optimum, but what are the other > | options? > | Thanks! > Todd....!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:30:40 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: EGT gauge (was: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.) Excellent idea! Will consider it, sounds like a less expensive alternative to the 8 sensor route! With room for 8 sensors when I get rich, off of real estate.... Dad just became a BROKER a few months ago, will try and use him as my broker, must see how much of the TOTAL 6% take he'll wanna keep from his eldest (and brightest and toughest) son! Dad's mainly into BIG real estate deals, I plan on only doin the smallest stuff possible at first, small multi family units, these are supposed to be cash cows! Then I'll move into single family housing as well after I get my capitol built up enough to compensate for the slackers in the single family's... Anyone into this real estate thang? Reason I bring it up is because this is the way I'll be funding my twin turbo 440/451 project... The labor's cheap, the mistakes are what's expensive, and I'm plannin on bein able to cover the costs with the real estate money... Already have my house usin my good ol trusty VA loan that I qualified for dueto my service in the Air Force... literally $0 down! And I rolled almost ALL the closing costs back into the loan because I got such a 'good' deal on the house at $68,000 a couple a years ago.... Am orienting myself with where the multi family dwelling zones are within my area, Houston and surrounding vicinity.... Will be buyin soon! Am cashin in my 401K money that's been locked for 2+ years due to the last company I worked for going bankrupt n all... They said I should be gettin a check fer $3,000+ THIS FRI! Will be goin out and gettin loans using this $3,000 as my collateral in several banks in series, i.e. deposit the $3000 in one bank, get a loan using it as collateral, take the loan money from the first bank, deposit it into another bank, get a loan on that money etc.... Then mak 2 or 3 payments on each 'loan' over a 6 week period using the $3,000 'loan' money for payment money, then go back within about 6 weeks or so and pay all of em off, then ask for a signature loan from each bank for about the same amount...(signature meaning NO COLLATERAL!) and do the same thing with that signature loan money... This will build credit with the bank(s) as well as a relationship with em... This will allow me to get the deposit money and 'home' improvement loans I may need for some of the real estate investments that I may need the extra cash to fix up.... One of the QUICKEST way to make big money in real estate, I and a LOT of others believe, is to try n get the properties immediately prior to foreclosure, and the goal when lookin at properties to purchase is to get em all for from 10 to 25% below Market Value! Nuff of the 'financin for F.I.' tech today... Hope I didn't BORE ALL of ya with this rattlin on, just tryin to help... Will let ya'll know how it goes.... Sincerely!, Todd....!! Brian Hartman wrote: > > Well the best place to put EGT Pyrometers is about 1" from the exhaust port. > Make sure that you have all your Pyrometer probes angled the same. Weld the > bungs so that they are vertical so that none of the tips are closer to the > exhaust port than another. To have one on each cylinder isn't over kill but > what you can do is have bungs welded on each and plug them with a brass set > screw. If you don't already know which cylinders are your lean ones you can > find it pretty easily in most cars. This way you have the option to check > any cylinder and compare it to a "normal" and if you decide to run one in > each, you can. > > Talk to you soon bro, > > Brian Hartman > 91 GMC Syclone > 91 GMC Syclone <371 miles> > 73 Cuda 440-6 > > Todd....!! wrote: > > > Question for anyone who knows, > > > > WHERE would be the best place to install one of these EGT setups on the > > engine itself? Where in the exhaust system? > > > > I have a v-8 or two one with headers one with just exhaust manifolds > > whcih I'd like to throw an EGT on! > > > > Do I need one per cylinder or is that overkill? > > > > I'm sure one per cylinder would be optimum, but what are the other > > options? > > > > Thanks! > > > > Todd....!! > > 1970 Superbee w/ 440, auto, dana 60, 4.10:1, carb'd > > 1972 Jaguar XJ6 w/ 455 Buick, carb'd > > 1978 Goldwing GL1000, multi carb'd > > 1981 Stang, 5.0, AOD, carb'd > > 1983 T-bird, 5.0, AOD, carb'd > > 1984 Chev shrt bed truck 5.0, 700R4, carb'd > > 1991 Mitsu Eclipse, turbo, 5-speed, F.I.'d > > 1997 Stratus, 2.4 4-cyl, F.I.'d > > > > ALL FOR SALE!! HELP! > > > > Daniel Houlton wrote: > > > > > > d houlton x0710 wrote: > > > > > > > > Bruce Plecan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd get an EGT, and Oil Temp guage on that, right away. > > > > > > > > Geez, I'm beginning to think I've been extremely lucky so far. > > > > > > > > I did some checking into an EGT gauge a few months ago. Asked the > > > > list about it too. The AutoMeter EGT gauge was on the order of $250. > > > > > > FYI, I just checked my latest JEG's catalog and they have the EGT > > > UltraLight gauge listed now. Price is $110 for the gauge *and* sender. > > > > > > When I called Summit a few months ago with the part numbers I got > > > from AutoMeter, they quoted $101 for the meter and another $141 (!) > > > for the sender. Maybe it was a mistake? Anyways, I think I can > > > afford getting one now... > > > > > > --Dan > > > houlster@xxx.com > > > http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/amigo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:34:59 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Web Links All still offline, at least from where I'm at... Tried bookmarkin the sites for future ref! Thanks for the links! Can't WAIT! LATER! Todd....!! http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/toddlnk.htm Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > Since Todd asked, why not. Hummer stuff and Racing stuff haven't been > restored from tape yet. I'm slow. > > I've also been hoarding GMECM stuff in my ftp area, > ftp://xephic.dynip.com as well as some linux stuff. I put the GM stuff > together so its easier for me to find what I need, so feel free. The > digital electronics tutor is pretty kewl also (last item). In random > order: > > Homebrew Automotive: > http://xephic.dynip.com/hb_auto/hb_auto.html > > Low Fanglers Ball: > http://xephic.dynip.com/fanglers2/fanglers.html > > My Father's Scout Troop: > http://xephic.dynip.com/troop108/troop108.html > > My Dodge Truck: > http://xephic.dynip.com/dodge/dodge.html > > EEC Bins: > ftp://xephic.dynip.com/eecbin/ > > Other Neat Stuff: > ftp://xephic.dynip.com/fanglers/ > > My Children: > http://xephic.dynip.com/cats/cats.html > > My Resume: > http://xephic.dynip.com/resume/index.html > > Mikes Jeep: > http://xephic.dynip.com/jeep/jeep.html > > Java Applet Digital Simulation Thingy > http://xephic.dynip.com/degsim/digsim.html > > The Hummer stuff ain't there yet... have to find the backup tape its > on. Its getting there! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:43:07 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Gotta love them overheads! My Mitsu Eclipse Turbo 5-speed is one piece of work... The 4 cams are all ROLLER cams, and the thing is lifter-less! The rollers are in the middle of the rockers! The cam rides right on top of the rocker arm rollers themselves! ALL 16 of em! Guess what happens when a lil unsee-able hydraulic adjuster mechanism on the opposite side from the valve on under the rocker arm getss worn or gets crap in it? The thing clatters like I don't know what! Like it's not gettin oil pressure or somethin! That's my current delimma with my Eclipse, the lil adjusters are supposedly $20 each! Times 16 of em puts me WAY over budget for that car, that's one of the reasons I'm drivin the Superbee to work n back, I'd like to see a part that breaks cost more than $200 on my Bee! My ENTIRE friggin 440 didn't even cost more than $135 from the junk yard! The Eclipse also could use another transaxle, have a crank in this one... That'll be fun to pull again, just replaced the clutch and timing belt within the past year... Oh what fun it is to have a foriegn car in your lot! LATER! Todd....!! .. wrote: > > CLsnyder wrote: > I've been a Mopar Man for years - owned a 241 cu Hemi Coronet (1953) among > others. Interest in old cars has had me owning, over the years, a '28 chevy > national, '35 chevy master, 37 hudson terraplane, '53 coronet sierra (hemi), '57 > fargo custom express(rarest truck produced by chrysler since the 2nd war), '63 > valiant 170, '49 VW beetle, etc. etc. > > CL; > Do you recall the Dodge 241 cu.in. demo engine that was set-up as a 4 overhead > cam system back in the mid-to-late '50's? If Chrysler would have made that an > actual production engine things would sure have been even more interesting. As I > recall (fuzzily) they were going to try to get USAC to allow it as a stock block > based installation - or something along those lines. Carl Kiekhaefer (of the > Mercury Outboard Motors fame) may have had a hand somewhere in there I suppose > as he (or rather his staff of race technicians) developed Chrysler's race hemi's > for the Nascar series (Chrysler 300 based cars) in his race shop in Oshkosh, Wi. > I recall that they developed heads, cams, manifolds, etc for Chrysler - complete > with Chrysler part #'s... > rap ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:51:52 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Thanks for the link as well Charles!, Todd....!! C. Brooks wrote: > > Check these guys out, they should be able to help you in your quest for info > on Turbo Dodge cars. Some of these guys have Turbo fourbangers in the mid > 12's for reasonable money :) > http://www.sdml.org/ > > Charles Brooks > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Gregory > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 8:00 PM > > >749D9B1.4732012C@xxx.net> > <00c601bea6e4$f81b3700$28167018@xxx.com> > <374B386F.3C91@xxx.net> > <013b01bea700$04460990$28167018@xxx.com> > <374C183E.375F@xxx.net> > >Subject: Mopar 2.2/2.5 FI computer > >Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 16:10:35 -0500 > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >Content-Type: text/plain; > > charset="iso-8859-1" > >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >X-Priority: 3 > >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 > >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 > > > >I'm a sucker for a turbo vehicle. I recently > >bought an '85 Chrysler Laser XT turbo. > >Now, I want to see what makes it tick. > > > >Is there a WWW page out there with in-depth > >ECU info? I removed my ECU last night, > >and it looks like there are a couple PROMs > >on the main board that probably contain > >all the "good stuff" that we're all looking for > > > >In case anyone else is keeping track of > >this stuff, my Logic Module sticker reads: > > > >Part No. 5226795 Supplier 7902 > >Data 02/27/85 15:59:44 2 > > > >There are two chips in one corner with > >stickers on 'em. They look like PROMs. > >One sticker says "FED" on it, and > >the other says "5226795" and > >"5226794" on it. > > > >Plus... > >I have the Haynes maual for the G-body, and > >the wiring diagrams are pretty good, but > >there are still some holes left open. > >Do you know the function of all six wires > >of the diagnostic connector? How 'bout > >all the wires that run between the Power > >Module and the Logic Module? > > > >What is the format of the dignostic > >data stream? I'd like to be able to > >read it without dropping a ton of > >money on a scan tool. > > > >Please don't think of me as just > >another "taker"... > >I'm a "giver", too. > > > >I'm the guy that published the > >Turbo P4 doc, and I helped the > >author or Promgrammer to get > >his application working. Plus, I > >frequently visit CSH, HQ... to > >take out the trash and clean > >the toilets. > > > >Thanks, > >~~~~~~ > >Ron Gregory '85 Laser XT turbo > >rgregory@xxx.com Garland, TX > >'91 Syclone > >'78 Malibu (5.7 Vortec TPI project on hold to > > get mini Mopar on the road) > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:56:23 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? Guess you'll have ta keep lookin there buddy! I'm in Houston, Texas.... I'm TOTALLY interested in turbo(s), WITH INTERCOOLING! Intercoolin is a must in these days of enlightment n all... Ran up against a lil accord or somethin like that that looked like one of those megaphone foreign jobbies.... I passed up racin a 'slow' drag late 70's firebird , cuz I thought it'd be more of a race if I ran up against a puny lil accord.... Well, that firebird with the slicks was slow in comparison to this lil light blue sleeper accord... It had a custom turbo setup on it! Runs 11's in the 1/4! Was only runnin low 13's the day I raced him in the Stratus due to no slicks on the car that day! Live -n- learn...? LATER! Todd....!! C. Brooks wrote: > > Hey Todd, what state are you in? I live in Maryland and I've yet to find any > people around here interested in Turbocharged V8's :) > > Charles Brooks ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:18:05 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? Thanks for the references Chris...! May come in handy sometime! LATER! Todd....!! Chris Conlon wrote: > > At 07:43 PM 5/26/99 -0400, C. Brooks wrote: > > >Hey Todd, what state are you in? I live in Maryland and I've yet to find any > >people around here interested in Turbocharged V8's :) > > Replying to all in case others might use this info. Maybe try: > > Maryland Performance Center > 301-258-8883 > 8029 Cessna Ave > Gaithersburg, MD > > Disclaimer: I only ever go there to get bottles filled, so I have no > idea how good they are. They didn't shoot me for driving up in an MR2, > though, which says something I guess. Looked like they had a couple of > service bays. > > Excessive Motorsport > Near Manassas, VA > Naturally I threw their card out just the other day. Supposedly > specializing in Fords and blowers. Never been there. > > Speedcraft > Near College Park, MD > Small place, bunch of bolt-ons, I only went in to get Red Line stuff. > Dunno if they have a shop or not. > > HTH, > Chris C. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:33:38 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Hi Gary, More detail about fuel characteristics being 'all wrong' for comression ignition? Thanks! Todd.... Gary Derian wrote: > > No. The fuel characteristics of gasoline are all wrong for compression > ignition. > > Gary Derian > > > > drove off... about a block later, heard a large BOOM and he was at the > side > > > of the road with lots of smoke... Opened the hood and it appeared to > have > > > sheared the head bolts... head was about 1/4" above the block!) > > > > > > Yeah, but isn't that because the injection system is tuned for diesel? > > Couldn't injecting gasoline still work if the injection system was > calibrated > > for gasoline? i.e. maybe inject it at a slower rate? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:39:16 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Prowler V6 Lyndon, Problem and Transaxle, meaning that the transaxle will break? That can be easily remedied.... Use a different, stronger tranny.... LATER! Todd....!! - ------- Programmer wrote: > > Todd, > > the only problem being the transaxle !! > > Lyndon IPTECH > -----Original Message----- > From: Todd....!! > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > Date: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 11:36 AM > Subject: Re: Prowler V6 > > >Cool to know! > > > >HOWEVER, accordin to my calculations at: > >( http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/dragtable.htm ) > > > > > >Mid 14's are not my idea of a quick car, ESPECIALLY for that price! > > > >Even a simple lil paxton or turbo would've probably DOUBLED the power, > >thus givin it about 400 instead of a puny 200 hp at the rear wheels! > >ALSO giving it a quarter time in the 11's! Beating out the VIPER by a > >fair amount! > > > >What do ya think? > > > >LATER! > > > >Todd....!! > > > > > >AL8001@xxx.com wrote: > >> > >> The 99 Prowler has the all aluminum 3.5L V6 also used in the LHS and > 300M. > >> The drive line of a Prowler consists of a front engine and a rear mounted > >> trans axel. Similar to a Porsche 924/944, 928 and the 65 Tempest. > >> > >> 3.5L all aluminum DOHC V6 253 HP @xxx. It also > has a > >> dual tuned intake system to give a broad power curve. Compression is > around > >> 10 to 1. > >> > >> Sounds like enough for a 2,800 Lb street cruser to me. > >> > >> The 98 and older Prowler has a lesser 3.5L V6 cast iron block with a > aluminum > >> head. > >> > >> Power (SAE Net) 214 bhp (157 kW) @ 5850 rpm > >> > >> Torque (SAE Net) 221 lb ft (303 Nm) @ 3100 rpm > >> > >> Max Engine Speed 6464 rpm > >> > >> Harold > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:13:08 -0700 (MST) From: d houlton x0710 Subject: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. David Piper wrote: > > I have schematic of orig Carter knock eliminator. Understand that each > engine has unique acoustic profile that may require filtering to be > effective. I applied MSD knock detector to my Z on DynoJet to no avail. > > Better design uses DSP customized to engine. I'm not familiar with that. What is the Carter knock eliminator? Can you send me the schmatic or post it to the ftp site? How does it work, what's it cost, etc, etc. Any sites with more info? thanks - --Dan houlster@xxx.com http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/amigo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:21:12 -0700 (MST) From: d houlton x0710 Subject: Re: EGT gauge (was: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.) Brian Hartman wrote: > > Well the best place to put EGT Pyrometers is about 1" from the exhaust port. > Make sure that you have all your Pyrometer probes angled the same. Weld the > bungs so that they are vertical so that none of the tips are closer to the What about on a cast manifold? Can I just drill and tap it? Some of the probes I've seen are a clamp on type that won't work for my manifold. I'll need a screw in type of some sort. Is there any risk the probe (or a brass plug) cracking the manifold from the hole? - --Dan houlster@xxx.com http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/amigo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:25:13 -0700 (MST) From: d houlton x0710 Subject: Re: EGT gauges Charles wrote: > > On Wed, 26 May 1999 13:29:22 -0400, you wrote: > > >I did some checking into an EGT gauge a few months ago. Asked the > >list about it too. The AutoMeter EGT gauge was on the order of $250 > > I bought the gauge and interface box for $100+ and then > discovered they wanted that much and more again for the > thermocouple! I found the same thing a few months ago calling for prices. The gauge was like $120 plus another $150 for the sensor. I did actually call JEG's last night to verify the cost, and they did state positively that the $110 price in their new catalogs is for both the gauge and the sensor. - --Dan houlster@xxx.com http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/amigo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:25:45 -0500 (CDT) From: "Gregory A. Parmer" Subject: Butterfly valves part II ...Got the butterfly valve flow rate fax. Thanks Dave (TurboDave, right?). I scanned it and posted to efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/incoming as "flowbrws.jpg" and "flow.jpg". The first is viewable and printable with a web browser. The second is a better quality one, but requires a nicer program (like Photoshop) to print on a single page. later, - -greg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 12:33:49 -0400 From: "SPECTRO COATING CORP." Subject: Re: 1961 Corvette TPI Conversion This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_007B_01BEA83D.2BD67920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dan, I have a spare set of TPI rails(among other thngs) that i'm = probably not going to use - contact me off the list if you're = interested.=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Hello, =20 I am brand new to the list so please let me know if I am outside = protocol. I have scanned some of the archives and it certainly looks as = though there is a wealth of information and experience in the members of = this list. I have a 1961 Corvette with a 350 and a 9.5 to 1 compression = ratio and race ported 76cc heads that I am converting to a 91 TPI setup. = I have the stock manifold, runners, throttle body and plenum but no = fuel rails. I just got a set of 305 injectors from a 86 Firebird on = e-bay. I have no fuel rail. I was considering building one using some = bulk fuel rail from Arizona Speed and Marine. $36.00 for 6 feet. I = have no computer or harness. What is the best way to proceed from here. = I certainly don't want to build a leaky fuel rail and risk burning up = my car but I do enjoy doing as much as I can myself. Any suggestions or = assistance would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. =20 Dan Plaskett=20 - ------=_NextPart_000_007B_01BEA83D.2BD67920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Dan, I=20 have a spare set of TPI rails(among other thngs) that i'm probably = not going=20 to use - contact me off the list if you're interested.
 
 

 
Hello,
 
I am brand new to the list so please let me know = if I am=20 outside protocol.  I have scanned some of the archives and it = certainly=20 looks as though there is a wealth of information and experience in = the=20 members of this list.  I have a 1961 Corvette with a 350 and a = 9.5 to 1=20 compression ratio and race ported 76cc heads that I am converting to = a 91=20 TPI setup.  I have the stock manifold, runners, throttle body = and=20 plenum but no fuel rails.  I just got a set of 305 injectors = from a 86=20 Firebird on e-bay.  I have no fuel rail.  I was = considering=20 building one using some bulk fuel rail from Arizona Speed and = Marine. =20 $36.00 for 6 feet.  I have no computer or harness.  What = is the=20 best way to proceed from here.  I certainly don't want to build = a leaky=20 fuel rail and risk burning up my car but I do enjoy doing as much as = I can=20 myself.  Any suggestions or assistance would be = appreciated. =20 Thanks in advance.
 
Dan = Plaskett 
- ------=_NextPart_000_007B_01BEA83D.2BD67920-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 12:32:53 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Prowler V6 >Mid 14's are not my idea of a quick car, ESPECIALLY for that price! Its not designed to be quick - just cool looking. >Even a simple lil paxton or turbo would've probably DOUBLED the power, >thus givin it about 400 instead of a puny 200 hp at the rear wheels! Realistically, you're not going to double the power without doing some major, major work. New rods, crank, transaxle, clutch at an absolute minimum. A nitrous shot would help, but still, the bottom end is not all that tough. With a Paxton, you'd get 7-8 lbs of boost, which would give you another 1/3 or so HP. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:51:40 -0700 (MST) From: d houlton x0710 Subject: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor. G. Scott Ponton wrote: > > pre-ignition or any ignition for that matter. The reason you can "ease" into > the throttle an let the boost climb slowly has to do with the density of the > air charge. It works the same way with a NA engine which likes to "ping" at > WOT. If you slowly step into it you reduce the density of the air charge and > by the time you get to the higher revs the "time" it takes for the piston to > move is reduced. Therefor, even though the cylinder pressures are "equal", > the uncontrolled burn doesn't have time to create "ping" like it does at > slower engine speeds. > When you open the throttle suddenly to WOT you are imposing no > restriction to the density of the air entering the cylinders. Boost won't > necessarily climb quickly as it takes some time for the turbo to "spool up". Makes sense I guess. I really didn't know why it is happening (or how to prevent it), just that it does. > > > >It seems that unless you can factor in rpm (at the very least) in addition > >to boost to more accurately predict knock, you have to *really* retard > >ignition to cover the worst case, which makes you suffer a power loss most > >of the time. That's why I figured the active J & S system would be much > >better. > > Here you are nearly entirely correct. One other thing you are missing or Hmm, now that I think about it, although boost and rpm would be more accurate for predicting knock, I just explained that at a certain point, knock was directly related to the gas pedal once boost and rpm stabalized. You explained this because when you go to WOT, boost and rpm don't change instantly, but air density does. So, since air density is measured by the MAF and appears to be working correctly because the A/F meter isn't dropping off lean, maybe then monitoring boost, rpm and injector pulse width (or duty cycle, or maybe the MAF signal directly) could pretty accurately predict knock? It would take trial and error I'm sure to tune such a system, but it seems it would be relatively easy to do just by running a few tests. Maybe use boost and rpm to set a baseline retard and then use the injector pulse width / duty cycle / MAF output (or maybe even throttle position?) to set the gain to add more retard as necessary? If I were to come up with a box that could monitor these 3 things and come up with an output (say a 0 - 5 volt signal for instance), any ideas on how to make the ignition retard accordingly? Do the MSD prducts happen to have any kind of external inputs that could be used to retard ignition? They make a stand alone retard system with a dash mounted dial. If this dial is just a pot (seems likely) maybe I could use that, snip the dial off and feed an appropriate signal from my little black box? > forgetting though. Once pre-ignition has started, you have to retard the > timing further to get rid of it than you would have if you prevented it in > the first place. IMHO the best way to handle this is to figure out how much Yes, I have noticed this too. If it starts detonatiing at say 6 psi, I have to back all the way down to like 2 or 3 before it stops, but I can go right back up to 5 (all within a span of a second or so) without it happening again. > > I mentioned once before in another post I had added a ignition retard > device to one of my old Pontiacs. I finally have dug up the notes on it. > This may be a "cheap" alternative for many. The unit I used was not and ECM. > It is an ESC controller off a 82 Chevy P/U. This was a standalone system > that worked with the normal dissy and uses a Knock sensor with a board to > retard the timing until knock goes away. It is fairly easy to connect and > doesn't require much besides the sensor and the proper ignition module. I > forgot to bring the part #s home with me. If any are interested I can scan > the skitz and include the part #s I used. I had to manufacture a dissy for > my Pontiac as I was using a Tripower intake and a normal HEI won't fit > behind it. You should be able to hook it into your current ignition system > as the negative of the coil goes out to the module and as long as there is > no "knock" signal it just comes back. Otherwise it "delays" it until the > knock signal goes away. Yes, please could you send this on to me or post to the ftp site? I'm afraid my knowledge of the ignition system is a bit limited. What do you mean by connecting it to the neg side of the coil and it either "just comes back" or "it delays it"? Is this like grounding the neg side instantly or waiting an instant to ground it or something? Is controlling the ground of the coil how you would retard ignition? thanks - --Dan houlster@xxx.com http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/amigo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:01:15 -0600 From: Brian Hartman Subject: Re: EGT gauge (was: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.) d houlton x0710 wrote: > Brian Hartman wrote: > > > > Well the best place to put EGT Pyrometers is about 1" from the exhaust port. > > Make sure that you have all your Pyrometer probes angled the same. Weld the > > bungs so that they are vertical so that none of the tips are closer to the > > What about on a cast manifold? Can I just drill and tap it? Yep you can do that. That is what you do to the thicker manifolds. > Some of the > probes I've seen are a clamp on type that won't work for my manifold. > I'll need a screw in type of some sort. Yep, these are available from almost everyone that makes EGT's > Is there any risk the probe (or > a brass plug) cracking the manifold from the hole? Not really but what you can do is drill a hole and then weld the bung to the manifold and it will take the stress instead of the manifold. If you are using a manifold that is readily available for cheap, I'd just drill and tap it. Hope that helps, Brian Hartman > > > --Dan > houlster@xxx.com > http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/amigo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 13:32:07 EDT From: A70Duster@xxx.com Subject: Re: Prowler V6 In a message dated 5/27/1999 10:42:36 AM Mountain Daylight Time, frederic@xxx.com writes: << Its not designed to be quick - just cool looking. >> If it don't go, chrome it......:) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 13:40:47 EDT From: A70Duster@xxx.com Subject: Re: EGT gauge (was: Re: Ignition retard knock sensor.) In a message dated 5/27/1999 11:13:38 AM Mountain Daylight Time, brianhartman@xxx.com writes: << drill a hole and then weld the bung >> Is that where bunghole comes from :)~ See ya, Mike ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #312 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".