DIY_EFI Digest Monday, May 31 1999 Volume 04 : Number 320 In this issue: Re: Some new, some old Re: Some new, some old Temporary Hiatus due to MOVE Re: Some new, some old Re: Ford info... Re: Intake Air Temperature Re: Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? Re: Some new, some old Re: Intake Air Temperature Re: Intake Air Temperature Re: Intake Air Temperature EFI construction plans for ECU7 Re: Intake Air Temperature Re: Intake Air Temperature Re: Intake Air Temperature Re: Ford info... Re: Intake Air Temperature Re: Some new, some old Re: Intake Air Temperature g meter Re: Some new, some old Re: Some new, some old Re: Ford info... Re: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging, also efi pumps Re: Some new, some old RE: g meter Re: Intake Air Temperature Re: Some new, some old Re: Some new, some old BCC Info. Re: Knock sensor thread pitch? Re: Some new, some old Re: Intake Air Temperature Re: Some new, some old Re: Prowler V6 Re: Some new, some old BCC Info. gm 1227302, need info Re: Prowler V6 61 Corvette TPI Conversion Re: Ford info.Build sheet or Option stickers Re: Some new, some old See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 09:05:14 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Some new, some old That's a neat coincidence. I show 12 calibrations for the 93, A4, A/C, FED. emissions. Half of them have been superceded, but I have no official reasons as to why. Shannen eclark@xxx.com wrote: > > My 93 Formula A4 also has the same computer, and same PROM as Roger's. > > -Eric > > On Sat, 29 May 1999, Roger Heflin wrote: > > > > > The 93 Camaro uses the exat same computer as the 92-93 vette. At > > least the A4 one I am working on does. > > > > > > Roger > > > > On Sat, 29 May 1999, Shannen Durphey wrote: > > > > > I have placed wiring diagrams + pinouts in the incoming directory. > > > > > > 1227165Vette.zip TPI up to 90 > > > > > > 1227727Vette.zip TPI 90-91 > > > > > > 16159278Vette1.zip > > > 16159278Vette2.zip 1992-93 LT1 Vette > > > > > > Apologies for any duplicates. If I've uploaded redundant files, > > > please let me know and I'll remove them. > > > Shannen > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 09:56:02 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: Some new, some old Oh, how about S/B 92-336-6E S/B 47-65-25A They apply to a bunch of them. Grumpy | That's a neat coincidence. I show 12 calibrations for the 93, A4, | A/C, FED. emissions. | Half of them have been superceded, but I have no official reasons as | to why. | Shannen | > My 93 Formula A4 also has the same computer, and same PROM as Roger's. | > -Eric > > The 93 Camaro uses the exat same computer as the 92-93 vette. At | > > least the A4 one I am working on does. Roger ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 07:09:48 -0700 From: garfield@xxx.com (Gar Willis) Subject: Temporary Hiatus due to MOVE Hey maties. Got several emails queued up from some of yous guys, so just wanted to let ya know that I'm not ignoring you, but am smack dab in the middle of a major move to AirSIG, Inc's new facilities at Castle Airport, so I probly won't be responding to emails or posts for another day or so. TTFN Gar ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 09:39:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Roger Heflin Subject: Re: Some new, some old I have a question. If I wanted a copy of the updated prom what would I have to do? If I asked for the PROM and broadcast code would that get me the latest one? I do now that whien I had someone else tune my car originally (about 1.5 years ago) he did go and get the prom with the same broadcast code from a dealer. So would that prom have had all of the fixes from 1.5 years ago? Roger On Sun, 30 May 1999, Bruce Plecan wrote: > > Oh, how about > S/B 92-336-6E > S/B 47-65-25A > They apply to a bunch of them. > Grumpy > > > > | That's a neat coincidence. I show 12 calibrations for the 93, A4, > | A/C, FED. emissions. > | Half of them have been superceded, but I have no official reasons as > | to why. > | Shannen > > | > My 93 Formula A4 also has the same computer, and same PROM as Roger's. > | > -Eric > > > The 93 Camaro uses the exat same computer as the 92-93 vette. At > | > > least the A4 one I am working on does. > Roger > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 10:45:56 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Ford info... > Anyone know where FORD puts either the Build sheet or Option stickers in > their vehicles? > Specifically the explorers? When you arrive at the dealer, there's a 11x8.5" sticker on one of the passenger side windows... has the EPA rated mileage, options, features, etc. This and your invoice is all you get with Ford as far as I know. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 10:58:40 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Intake Air Temperature > Anybody have any suggestions on how I can accurately and instantaneously > measure intake air temperature? I have had home thermometers suggested, Well, your requirement if "instant" is a problem... thermistors as well as semiconductors take a "little time" to ramp up or ramp down if the temperature changes. This is because the thermistors are coated with an epoxy for strength and protection, and the semiconductors have the shell they are mounted in as a slight insulator. If you were to get one too room temperature, and whip it into the freezer while attached to a VOM, you'll the thermistor responds quickly, but not instantly. On a forced induction car, this might be a problem because when the boost kicks in, the air temp soars really quickly. GM, Ford, Chrysler use air temperature sensors that respond quickly, but also not instantly. Either its not "critical" to the operation of an EFI system, or their code compensates somehow. Hey, might considering using one of their sensors? Junkyard cheap too.... If you are simply trying to measure temperature in your intake while standing next to the car, that's a different story. You can drill a hole, stick in a grommet, and put a mercury thermometer into that, but again, its not the fastest responding thing in the world either. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 11:02:18 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? > If you use cooling water from the cold side of the radiator, it will be a > lot cooler. Or a separate system. Actually, a separate cooling system Its clear to me you and Bruce are in co-hoots :) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 11:05:20 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: Some new, some old It varies by dealership. I've worked in some where the Parts department ordered everything. Then also, in some where the service department ordered calibrations, thru the parts department. Often the "drivibility" man would have the latest info.. Doc | I have a question. | If I wanted a copy of the updated prom what would I have to do? If I | asked for the PROM and broadcast code would that get me the latest | one? I do now that whien I had someone else tune my car originally | (about 1.5 years ago) he did go and get the prom with the same | broadcast code from a dealer. So would that prom have had all of the | fixes from 1.5 years ago? | Roger ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 11:36:41 -0400 From: "C. Brooks" Subject: Re: Intake Air Temperature Why don't you think faster response times are available? Charles Brooks - -----Original Message----- From: Ord Millar To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Sunday, May 30, 1999 1:14 AM Subject: Re: Intake Air Temperature >Depends on required accuracy... I like national LM34DZ - it outputs >10mV/degree F, doesn't require a fancy power supply, or any circuitry on the >output, and they're cheap. They are good to around 1 celcius. > >Instantaneous is impossible, but with carefull design you should be able to >get 15 second response from a semiconductor, RTD or TC in a fast flowing air >stream. Be carefull with leads - this is one big source of error and delay. >Keep the wires a fine as possible so they don't conduct hear to or away from >the sensor. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 12:04:39 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Intake Air Temperature > Why don't you think faster response times are available? While this is not to me... I'll respond :) While I'm sure technology has changed over the years, I've never seen a thermistor that responds instantly. Show me one, and I'd be more than happy to chance my view... I just haven't run across the right parts yet I guess. From an EFI standpoint, an "instant read" temp sensor would be idea... when the boost/temp goes way up, the temp sensor could follow suit, and the ECM could make real accurate calculations. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 14:12:41 -0700 From: rr Subject: Re: Intake Air Temperature For the fastest response time, the lowest possible thermal mass is required. The LM35's come in different packages, NatSemi has info in their app notes as to how to obtain the quickest response time from these devices. (If I remember right, it's through the leads). Thermisters also come in small glass packages, that are about the size of a 1/8w resister. Cheap from digi-key. I get the feeling that 'instantanous' is not really possible, and that we haven't qualified how close to 'instantanous' this device needs to respond . BobR. Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > Why don't you think faster response times are available? > > While this is not to me... I'll respond :) > > While I'm sure technology has changed over the years, I've never seen a > thermistor that responds instantly. Show me one, and I'd be more than > happy to chance my view... I just haven't run across the right parts yet > I guess. From an EFI standpoint, an "instant read" temp sensor would be > idea... when the boost/temp goes way up, the temp sensor could follow > suit, and the ECM could make real accurate calculations. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 13:24:13 -0700 From: Al Lipper Subject: EFI construction plans for ECU7 I've made some minor updates to the website with the plans for constructing your own EFI system. If anyone is interested in being part of a group parts order, let me know. So, check out: http://members.aol.com/ALIPPER/ If you note any problems with the plans (or the web page), e-mail me. Thanks. Al ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 16:05:25 -0500 From: "Robert W. Hughes" Subject: Re: Intake Air Temperature > Instantaneous is impossible, but with carefull design you should be able to > get 15 second response from a semiconductor, RTD or TC in a fast flowing air > stream. The standard GM MAT sensor is at least this fast and probably cheaper and easier to interface. I have seen mine go from 120F to 249F (according to the scan tool) in 5-6 seconds. This is at 10psi boost and obviously without an intercooler. - -- Robert W. Hughes (Bob) BackYard Engineering Houston, Texas rwhughe@xxx.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 14:22:59 -0700 From: Aaron Willis Subject: Re: Intake Air Temperature At 02:12 PM 5/30/99 -0700, you wrote: > >I get the feeling that 'instantanous' is not really possible, >and that we haven't qualified how close to 'instantanous' this >device needs to respond . > >BobR. > Bob, 'Need' isn't the word...just trying to get a handle on temps to evaluate air filter locations, intercooler efficiency, etc. Not launching any rockets with it - not today, anyway!! Thanks for the tips - Aaron Willis ICQ #27386985 AOL IM: hemiyota http://surf.to/garage-te51 Garage TE51 International ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 17:30:57 -0400 From: "Ord Millar" Subject: Re: Intake Air Temperature I recently did a lot of worth with a temperature sensor in liquids - and a sensor in flowing liquid has a time constant of 5 seconds or so (time to reach 90% of the new value). The TC for most sheathed temperature sensors in air is 30-90 seconds. The problem is that dry air has low heat capacity compared to solids or liquids, and gases are poor conductors of heat. - -----Original Message----- From: C. Brooks To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Sunday, May 30, 1999 12:21 PM Subject: Re: Intake Air Temperature >Why don't you think faster response times are available? > >Charles Brooks > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ord Millar >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> >Date: Sunday, May 30, 1999 1:14 AM >Subject: Re: Intake Air Temperature > > >>Depends on required accuracy... I like national LM34DZ - it outputs >>10mV/degree F, doesn't require a fancy power supply, or any circuitry on >the >>output, and they're cheap. They are good to around 1 celcius. >> >>Instantaneous is impossible, but with carefull design you should be able to >>get 15 second response from a semiconductor, RTD or TC in a fast flowing >air >>stream. Be carefull with leads - this is one big source of error and >delay. >>Keep the wires a fine as possible so they don't conduct hear to or away >from >>the sensor. > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 18:08:14 EDT From: JRECPA@xxx.com Subject: Re: Ford info... In a message dated 5/29/99 9:35:52 PM US Mountain Standard Time, n5xmt@xxx.net writes: << Anyone know where FORD puts either the Build sheet or Option stickers in their vehicles? Specifically the explorers? Thanks, Dave >> I have found the build sheets over the fuel tank on fords. James ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 15:42:29 -0700 From: ".." Subject: Re: Intake Air Temperature Or he can hop on down to his local Radio Shack and spend about $2 for their item #271-110A (10k ohm Thermistor). It scales pretty good from -50 deg C (-58 deg F.) to 110 deg C. (230 deg F.) and the rate of reaponse is pretty fair. This thermistor is a little bigger than a gain of sand with leads about 1/2 inch long. Carefully solder longer leads in place, covering the thermistor leads and solder joint with shrink wrap tubing to insulate them when thru.. You can use any decent digital VOM to check the resistance in Kohms to get the conversion to temp. Nice to have a couple made up ready for use on your workbench... rap rr wrote: > For the fastest response time, the lowest possible thermal mass > is required. > > The LM35's come in different packages, NatSemi has info in their > app notes as to how to obtain the quickest response time from these > devices. (If I remember right, it's through the leads). > > Thermisters also come in small glass packages, that are about > the size of a 1/8w resister. Cheap from digi-key. > > I get the feeling that 'instantanous' is not really possible, > and that we haven't qualified how close to 'instantanous' this > device needs to respond . > > BobR. > > Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > > > Why don't you think faster response times are available? > > > > While this is not to me... I'll respond :) > > > > While I'm sure technology has changed over the years, I've never seen a > > thermistor that responds instantly. Show me one, and I'd be more than > > happy to chance my view... I just haven't run across the right parts yet > > I guess. From an EFI standpoint, an "instant read" temp sensor would be > > idea... when the boost/temp goes way up, the temp sensor could follow > > suit, and the ECM could make real accurate calculations. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 19:35:10 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Some new, some old Roger Heflin wrote: > > I have a question. > > If I wanted a copy of the updated prom what would I have to do? If I > asked for the PROM and broadcast code would that get me the latest > one? I do now that whien I had someone else tune my car originally > (about 1.5 years ago) he did go and get the prom with the same > broadcast code from a dealer. So would that prom have had all of the > fixes from 1.5 years ago? > > Roger > Copy of newest prom.... My experiences have been that the service department has the quickest route to the latest prom part numbers. They can use your application or the BCC to find it. F-bodies appear to be linked to tire size. I've only seen a few other cars that list tire sizes in the prom description. The quality of the info you recieve depends on the guy running the software at the dealership. You can then take the part no to the parts dept. >From the parts angle, sometimes your BCC will yield a clear cut replacement, sometimes it will show a good number, sometimes it will be replaced by several choices which aren't clearly for your car. Juz depends. What's your BCC? If nothing new has been offered since 98, I can find out if it's the latest vers. and give you a part no. Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 19:26:03 -0700 From: rr Subject: Re: Intake Air Temperature I'd recommend the National Semi LM35?? devices then. It's a three terminal semiconductor device that output's a voltage that reads as degrees C. +10mV of output per deg C. So 249 mv = 24.9 degree C temperature. Operates from 4 to 30 vdc. try http://www. natsemi or nat-semi .com >From surplus houses, can get 200mV LCD displays for under ten bucks... Need more info, just let me know. BobR. P.S. if anyone thinks a surplus electronic supplier list would help. I bet a bunch of us could post. Aaron Willis wrote: > > At 02:12 PM 5/30/99 -0700, you wrote: > > > >I get the feeling that 'instantanous' is not really possible, > >and that we haven't qualified how close to 'instantanous' this > >device needs to respond . > > > >BobR. > > > > Bob, > 'Need' isn't the word...just trying to get a handle on temps to evaluate > air filter locations, intercooler efficiency, etc. Not launching any > rockets with it - not today, anyway!! Thanks for the tips - > > Aaron Willis > ICQ #27386985 > AOL IM: hemiyota > http://surf.to/garage-te51 Garage TE51 International ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 19:16:27 +0000 From: xxalexx@xxx.com Subject: g meter Circuit Cellar Inc. #107 june 99 has good article on the ADXL202 +-2 g accellerometer with 0.001 g resolution Even sensitive to going up and down hills (0.016 g per degree) Complete boards avaliable under $30 from Jameco and Crossbow. alex ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 19:51:14 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Some new, some old Bruce Plecan wrote: > > Oh, how about > S/B 92-336-6E Corvette. I'z talkin F-bod's > S/B 47-65-25A This one does. This is typical of GM. All of the calibrations that are superceded fit into the req's of this bulletin. Some of the old calibrations, which are not superceded, also fit the req's of the bulletin. And none of the prom #'s are directly linked to the bulletins. Another example of having to double check GM documentation. Shannen > They apply to a bunch of them. > Grumpy > > | That's a neat coincidence. I show 12 calibrations for the 93, A4, > | A/C, FED. emissions. > | Half of them have been superceded, but I have no official reasons as > | to why. > | Shannen > > | > My 93 Formula A4 also has the same computer, and same PROM as Roger's. > | > -Eric > > > The 93 Camaro uses the exat same computer as the 92-93 vette. At > | > > least the A4 one I am working on does. > Roger ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 19:57:36 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Some new, some old Roger Heflin wrote: > > I have a question. > I do now that whien I had someone else tune my car originally > (about 1.5 years ago) he did go and get the prom with the same > broadcast code from a dealer. So would that prom have had all of the > fixes from 1.5 years ago? > > Roger > If the prom from the dealership had the same BCC as the prom taken out of your car, there were no changes between the two. If the ECM is original, and the 4 letter code on the label matches your prom, then you are running an original release prom. Any later fixes will come with a prom of a different BCC. HTH. Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 20:42:35 -0400 From: "Ord Millar" Subject: Re: Ford info... There are a bunch of build sheets. They are all supposed to be removed at the factory, but often some are left on. Some people have found them under the rear bumper, passenger seat, fenderwell, under spare tire. This is for mustangs, don't know if this applies to Explorers too. >> Anyone know where FORD puts either the Build sheet or Option stickers in >> their vehicles? >> Specifically the explorers? > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 08:51:18 +0800 From: dzorde@xxx.com Subject: Re: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging, also efi pumps The last listing I saw for OZ avgas was 0.84g/l lead (very high) they are now going to move towards the FIA spec'd avgas. leaded over here is still around 0.23g/l, and believe it or not unleaded is 0.003g/l (but I guess what the public don't know won't hurt them). Racing unleaded is 0.0013g/l. Dan dzorde@xxx.com "Todd....!!" on 29-05-99 05:03:16 AM Please respond to diy_efi@xxx.edu To: diy_efi@xxx.edu cc: (bcc: Dan Zorde/Transit/ERG_Group) Subject: Re: O/T Compression ratio and supercharging, also efi pumps Hi David, Thanks for the info... However, as far as the lead content, buds said that the AVGas was kinda 'dry' and that I shouldn't run the AVGas too long so as to not burn the valves up... But if you read your source on the net, then it must be true, ey? lol LATER! Todd....!! http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/toddlnk.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 20:28:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Roger Heflin Subject: Re: Some new, some old On Sun, 30 May 1999, Shannen Durphey wrote: > Roger Heflin wrote: > > > > I have a question. > > > > If I wanted a copy of the updated prom what would I have to do? If I > > asked for the PROM and broadcast code would that get me the latest > > one? I do now that whien I had someone else tune my car originally > > (about 1.5 years ago) he did go and get the prom with the same > > broadcast code from a dealer. So would that prom have had all of the > > fixes from 1.5 years ago? > > > > Roger > > > Copy of newest prom.... > My experiences have been that the service department has the quickest > route to the latest prom part numbers. They can use your application > or the BCC to find it. F-bodies appear to be linked to tire size. > I've only seen a few other cars that list tire sizes in the prom > description. The quality of the info you recieve depends on the guy > running the software at the dealership. You can then take the part no > to the parts dept. > > >From the parts angle, sometimes your BCC will yield a clear cut > replacement, sometimes it will show a good > number, sometimes it will be replaced by several choices which aren't > clearly for your car. Juz depends. > What's your BCC? If nothing new has been offered since 98, I can find > out if it's the latest vers. and give you a part no. > Shannen > > BDZL is the broadcast code I have. The computer part no is the 16159278 computer. Are there any rev numbers actually in the prom data? Roger ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 22:42:46 -0400 From: "Scott Feaver" Subject: RE: g meter Are you able to scan in that article? CCI Magazine isn't available anywhere around here, I haven't seen it in ages now. I thought they were going under a few years ago.. Thanks, Scott - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu] On Behalf Of xxalexx@xxx.com Sent: Sunday, May 30, 1999 3:16 PM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: g meter Circuit Cellar Inc. #107 june 99 has good article on the ADXL202 +-2 g accellerometer with 0.001 g resolution Even sensitive to going up and down hills (0.016 g per degree) Complete boards avaliable under $30 from Jameco and Crossbow. alex ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 22:50:19 -0400 From: "C. Brooks" Subject: Re: Intake Air Temperature I've done a little temp measurement for a DAQ project I know instantaneous is not a reality. I guess a better question would be "How many degrees per second do you need the sensor to change?" Lets call it "Thermal slew rate" :) I was using a GM MAT sensor with a heat gun and getting 40-50 degrees per second. If that helps any. Unfortunately I don't have a GM part number for you guys... Charles Brooks - -----Original Message----- From: Ord Millar To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Sunday, May 30, 1999 8:37 PM Subject: Re: Intake Air Temperature >I recently did a lot of worth with a temperature sensor in liquids - and a >sensor in flowing liquid has a time constant of 5 seconds or so (time to >reach 90% of the new value). The TC for most sheathed temperature sensors >in air is 30-90 seconds. The problem is that dry air has low heat capacity >compared to solids or liquids, and gases are poor conductors of heat. > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 22:55:49 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Some new, some old Roger Heflin wrote: > BDZL is the broadcast code I have. The computer part no is the > 16159278 computer. Are there any rev numbers actually in the prom > data? > Roger Your prom, part no. 16189599 has been replaced by 16216379, BCC BNXF. According to the bulletin found by Dr. P. (thanks), this is to reduce part throttle chuggle or surge at 1500-2000 rpm, 50-60 mph, light acceleration. I do not know of any revision data within the prom. Some charts use the ALDL Scan ID to determine the current prom, for xref against latest offering. Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 23:01:32 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: Some new, some old BCC Info. | > > I have a question. | > > If I wanted a copy of the updated prom what would I have to do? If I | > > asked for the PROM and broadcast code would that get me the latest | > > one? I do now that whien I had someone else tune my car originally | > > (about 1.5 years ago) he did go and get the prom with the same | > > broadcast code from a dealer. So would that prom have had all of the | > > fixes from 1.5 years ago? | > Copy of newest prom.... | > My experiences have been that the service department has the quickest | > route to the latest prom part numbers. They can use your application | > or the BCC to find it. F-bodies appear to be linked to tire size. | > I've only seen a few other cars that list tire sizes in the prom | > description. The quality of the info you recieve depends on the guy | > running the software at the dealership. You can then take the part no | > to the parts dept. | > >From the parts angle, sometimes your BCC will yield a clear cut | > replacement, sometimes it will show a good | > number, sometimes it will be replaced by several choices which aren't | > clearly for your car. Juz depends. | > What's your BCC? If nothing new has been offered since 98, I can find | > out if it's the latest vers. and give you a part no. | > Shannen | BDZL is the broadcast code I have. The computer part no is the | 16159278 computer. Are there any rev numbers actually in the prom | data? | Roger Just for the lack of anything else, to do I ran some numbers. Your BDZL (partno 16189599) "maybe" superceeded to a BNXF (partno 16216379). I happen to have a BDZP (partno 16189610) Grumpy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 23:19:38 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Knock sensor thread pitch? Jason_Leone@xxx.com wrote: > > Anybody know what the available thread pitch is on a standard single wire GM > knock sensor? 1/8 NPT? I've seen 10mm metric thread sensors on a Saturn (I'm running this on my crossfire engine), and pipe thread sensors on V-8 engines. Shannen > > Reason I ask is this...I'm using an Electromotive TEC II on my VW VR6 engine, > but the TEC II wants one single wire GM knock sensor. I currently have dual > Bosch knock sensors (one per bank of cylinders) that came with the factory > Motronic 2.9 system (but they aren't doing anything, obviously). The Bosch knock > sensors are multi wire, and not single. I'll have to check my Bentley Manual > wiring diagrams, to figure out the Bosch knock sensor wiring (-gnd, shield, > +pos, etc.). I'm wondering if the tapped threads in the VR6 block will accept a > GM knock sensor...perhaps the Bosch knock sensors are a metric thread (12mm or > so)? > > Another thought is to use a Bosch single wire knock sensor from the late '80s > and early '90s 4 cyl/8v VWs. What do you guys think? > > Oh yeah, "Todd...!!" gets the award for the most posts in a DIY_EFI digest. Get > to work Todd, go buy some foreclosures or something! =) > > Jason > '93 SLC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 22:16:42 -0500 (CDT) From: eclark@xxx.com Subject: Re: Some new, some old On Sun, 30 May 1999, Roger Heflin wrote: > BDZL is the broadcast code I have. The computer part no is the > 16159278 computer. Are there any rev numbers actually in the prom > data? Mine has BDZL also, and it is labeled on the ECM, so i suspect that it has never been updated. - -Eric ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 23:30:38 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: Intake Air Temperature Oww, new buzz word. This thermal slew rate changes by part number. Like some CTS exchange just fine with some IAT, but the CTS are way slower, changing in response to temp.. Sneezy | I've done a little temp measurement for a DAQ project I know instantaneous | is not a reality. I guess a better question would be "How many degrees per | second do you need the sensor to change?" Lets call it "Thermal slew rate" | :) | | I was using a GM MAT sensor with a heat gun and getting 40-50 degrees per | second. If that helps any. Unfortunately I don't have a GM part number for | you guys... | | Charles Brooks | | -----Original Message----- | From: Ord Millar | To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> | Date: Sunday, May 30, 1999 8:37 PM | Subject: Re: Intake Air Temperature | | | >I recently did a lot of worth with a temperature sensor in liquids - and a | >sensor in flowing liquid has a time constant of 5 seconds or so (time to | >reach 90% of the new value). The TC for most sheathed temperature sensors | >in air is 30-90 seconds. The problem is that dry air has low heat capacity | >compared to solids or liquids, and gases are poor conductors of heat. | > | | ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 22:50:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Roger Heflin Subject: Re: Some new, some old On Sun, 30 May 1999, Shannen Durphey wrote: > Roger Heflin wrote: > > BDZL is the broadcast code I have. The computer part no is the > > 16159278 computer. Are there any rev numbers actually in the prom > > data? > > > Roger > > Your prom, part no. 16189599 has been replaced by 16216379, BCC > BNXF. According to the bulletin found by Dr. P. (thanks), this is to > reduce part throttle chuggle or surge at 1500-2000 rpm, 50-60 mph, > light acceleration. > I already fixed that one. That was the TCC lockup problem, it gets much worse with a bigger cam. It would be interesting to see if their fix was similar to mine. > I do not know of any revision data within the prom. Some charts use > the ALDL Scan ID to determine the current prom, for xref against > latest offering. > Shannen > > Roger ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 23:54:22 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Prowler V6 Todd....!! wrote: > > I've heard that most s.b. chev 4-bolt main blocks had forged cranks, but > this hasn't been sildified/proven yet to me anyways, anybody? > > I'm Just a wonderinnnnnnn fooooooooooooooo.............!! > > LATER! > > Todd....!! > Bad rumor to put any faith in. Many 4 bolt Chevys are cast crank. Post 86, only steel cranks are in LT1, LT4, and ZZx series engines (ok, ok, smallblock, 5.7, gen II engines). Also use powdered connecting rods, prone to sudden failure rather than bending, but much stronger until they break. ; ) Ligenfelter Perf. Engineering is selling some of this stuff that they pulled at low mileage to build some stronger engines. If you're tracking down rumors, ever hear of the 1969 4 bolt 327 Chebbie? Rumors are that it was a Canadian built engine. Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 22:51:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Roger Heflin Subject: Re: Some new, some old BCC Info. On Sun, 30 May 1999, Bruce Plecan wrote: > > | > > I have a question. > | > > If I wanted a copy of the updated prom what would I have to do? If I > | > > asked for the PROM and broadcast code would that get me the latest > | > > one? I do now that whien I had someone else tune my car originally > | > > (about 1.5 years ago) he did go and get the prom with the same > | > > broadcast code from a dealer. So would that prom have had all of the > | > > fixes from 1.5 years ago? > | > Copy of newest prom.... > | > My experiences have been that the service department has the quickest > | > route to the latest prom part numbers. They can use your application > | > or the BCC to find it. F-bodies appear to be linked to tire size. > | > I've only seen a few other cars that list tire sizes in the prom > | > description. The quality of the info you recieve depends on the guy > | > running the software at the dealership. You can then take the part no > | > to the parts dept. > | > >From the parts angle, sometimes your BCC will yield a clear cut > | > replacement, sometimes it will show a good > | > number, sometimes it will be replaced by several choices which aren't > | > clearly for your car. Juz depends. > | > What's your BCC? If nothing new has been offered since 98, I can find > | > out if it's the latest vers. and give you a part no. > | > Shannen > | BDZL is the broadcast code I have. The computer part no is the > | 16159278 computer. Are there any rev numbers actually in the prom > | data? > | Roger > > Just for the lack of anything else, to do I ran some numbers. > Your BDZL (partno 16189599) "maybe" superceeded to a BNXF (partno 16216379). > I happen to have a BDZP (partno 16189610) > Grumpy I appear to have a copy of BDZP, so I will check and see how it differs. Roger ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 20:24:44 -0700 From: "Jonathan" Subject: gm 1227302, need info This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE966C.25F37860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just pulled a 7302 out of a cavalier z24 2.8 v6 and was wondering if = anyone has played with one ,but my main question is if I can recal easy = enough to install this computer (mpfi 2.8) on a 3.8 TBI - ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE966C.25F37860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I just pulled a 7302 out of a = cavalier z24 2.8=20 v6 and was wondering if anyone has played with one ,but my main question = is if I=20 can recal easy enough to install this computer (mpfi 2.8) on a 3.8=20 TBI
- ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE966C.25F37860-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 20:59:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Davies Subject: Re: Prowler V6 On Sun, 30 May 1999, Shannen Durphey wrote: > > If you're tracking down rumors, ever hear of the 1969 4 bolt 327 > Chebbie? Rumors are that it was a Canadian built engine. Sounds like the Nova 327-325HP engine. Same 4 inch 4 bolt block as the 350 etc. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 22:58:32 -0500 From: "Dan Plaskett" Subject: 61 Corvette TPI Conversion This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_00C8_01BEAAEF.F0A36BA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, I spent the day at the junk yard and got an entire wiring harness out of = a 88 Cutlass and a ecm 1227727 for $10.48. I am now about ready to = start converting my 61 Corvette to a TPI. I still need a knock sensor, = and I'm not sure what to do about the throttle position sensor, etc. = What do I need to hook up so that this thing will run in a closed loop? = Everything, or are there sensors that I can do without? Thanks for the continued help. Dan Plaskett - ------=_NextPart_000_00C8_01BEAAEF.F0A36BA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well,
 
I spent the day at the junk yard and got an entire = wiring=20 harness out of a 88 Cutlass and a ecm 1227727 for $10.48.  I am now = about=20 ready to start converting my 61 Corvette to a TPI.  I still need a = knock=20 sensor, and I'm not sure what to do about the throttle position sensor,=20 etc.  What do I need to hook up so that this thing will run in a = closed=20 loop?  Everything, or are there sensors that I can do = without?
 
Thanks for the continued help.
 
Dan Plaskett
- ------=_NextPart_000_00C8_01BEAAEF.F0A36BA0-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 23:59:56 EDT From: AL8001@xxx.com Subject: Re: Ford info.Build sheet or Option stickers Tucked under a seat between the springs and padding is a popular place for most Fords. Harold ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 21:32:50 -0600 From: "Programmer" Subject: Re: Some new, some old Post the broadcast code that you have--I can check out the past and present PROM updates for your rig...I'll need vehicle year and serial number, of course !! Lyndon IPTECH - -Original Message----- From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Sunday, May 30, 1999 10:02 AM Subject: Re: Some new, some old > >I have a question. > >If I wanted a copy of the updated prom what would I have to do? If I >asked for the PROM and broadcast code would that get me the latest >one? I do now that whien I had someone else tune my car originally >(about 1.5 years ago) he did go and get the prom with the same >broadcast code from a dealer. So would that prom have had all of the >fixes from 1.5 years ago? > > Roger > >On Sun, 30 May 1999, Bruce Plecan wrote: > >> >> Oh, how about >> S/B 92-336-6E >> S/B 47-65-25A >> They apply to a bunch of them. >> Grumpy >> >> >> >> | That's a neat coincidence. I show 12 calibrations for the 93, A4, >> | A/C, FED. emissions. >> | Half of them have been superceded, but I have no official reasons as >> | to why. >> | Shannen >> >> | > My 93 Formula A4 also has the same computer, and same PROM as Roger's. >> | > -Eric >> > > The 93 Camaro uses the exat same computer as the 92-93 vette. At >> | > > least the A4 one I am working on does. >> Roger >> >> >> > > ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #320 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".