DIY_EFI Digest Thursday, June 3 1999 Volume 04 : Number 329 In this issue: Re: Prowler V6 Re: Injectors looking for GM smartcoil driver circuit... Re: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices Re: 730 program Omni Injection Re: looking for GM smartcoil driver circuit... Re: Prowler V6 o2 options Re: Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? Crankshafts.. my mistake (was Re: Prowler V6) Re: o2 options Re: Prowler V6 Best Chevy EFI engine Re: Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? Re: To Todd OBD2 problems Re: Best Chevy EFI engine Re: Best Chevy EFI engine Re: Prowler V6 Re: Knock sensors Re: Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? Re: OBD2 problems Re: Twin O2 sensor question Downloading (was Re: ) Re: Prowler V6 Re: Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? Re: SUN Scope Re: OBD2 problems Re: Prowler V6 Re: Knock sensors Re: OBD2 problems Re: Prowler V6 See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 08:36:55 +0800 From: dzorde@xxx.com Subject: Re: Prowler V6 Yeah, there are the Asian metric sizes (like 12mm, 15mm, 18mm hex heads) and European metric sizes (like 13mm, 17mm, 19mm hex heads). And lately I have started finding 3/8" nuts and bolts with 15mm hex heads (I was quite surprised to find that neither a 9/16" or a 5/8" ring spanner would fit, but a 15mm did) Dan dzorde@xxx.com Bill Edgeworth on 02-06-99 11:19:21 PM Please respond to diy_efi@xxx.edu To: diy_efi@xxx.edu cc: (bcc: Dan Zorde/Transit/ERG_Group) Subject: Re: Prowler V6 A lot of newer american cars are now using a mix of metric and standard in their cars. Oddly though these sizes seem different than what standards are in the rest of the world. For instance most european hex head fasteners have head sizes 10,13,17,19,22,24,27mm not sizes like 15 mm and 18 mm Anybody know why? are these maybe JIS (Japanese) as opposed to DIN (German) standards? Or did the american auto manufacturers buy stock in the tool companies? Bill Edgeworth ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 21:09:52 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: Injectors | > > Try these guys: | > > Linder Technical Services (317-487-1868 or www.lindertech.com) I've talked to Jim, and bothered his staff with questions from time to time, and they seem to be nice folks. I bought a scanner from him, and it was as advertised. I've used reconditioned injectors (thou not his), and have had good results. Grumpy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 99 19:15:59 From: "John C. Lagerquist" Subject: looking for GM smartcoil driver circuit... Anyone playing around with the GM smart coils? What type of driver circuit are you using? John C. Lagerquist Sr. Engineer Magneti Marelli Racing '86 Bertone X1/9 - ------------------------------------------------------ - Venolia forged aluminum pistons - big valve head by Progressive Automotive - camshaft, I keep changing my mind - lightened flywheel - PBS pan baffle - PBS header - custom 1 intake per cyl. programmable EFI (in progress) - distributorless programmable ignition (in progress) What can I say? It's a work in progress... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 19:24:56 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices >If the stuff inside the Dana 60 came with the Dana in 1970 on the Dodge >Superbee, what would it be, I can't remember, it's been quite a while... > >I DO know that it has clutches in it... > >Any ideas? > Trak-Lok if a one piece case and two spider gears, Powr Lok if a two piece (bolted together) case and four spider gears. (Both spellings are Trade Mark spellings.) Trak-Loks are junk waiting to happen, Powr-Loks are very good, durable, strong units--naturally a fair bit more expensive that Trak-Loks--and their design is based on the old British "Thorton" design. Thornton had the patent on the unit's design, then they got swallowed by Salisbury, who in turn got swallowed by Dana-Spicer. If you get a clutch replacement kit for a Powr-Lok, it will have an extra pair of one of the discs in it, which is thicker than the others. If you re-assemble it with the thicker piar of discs (one on each side) in place of one of the thinner pairs of discs, you will get a much tighter pre-load on the unit, and although it will be stiffer in corners, it is also locks tighter/sooner. The pre-load on on of these exists because one of the discs is a belleville spring on each side. The more torque that is applied to a Powr-Lok unit, the tighter its clutches are applied. Regards, Greg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:42:28 -0700 From: "Mike Pilkenton" Subject: Re: 730 program Why would I need a V8 MEMCAL? I'm running a 3.1L V6 motor. Mike - -----Original Message----- From: Peter Fenske To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 11:19 PM Subject: Re: 730 program > > >Hi Mike > >All the code on the main mpu is in the calibration pak. >Make sure you get a calpak for a V8 application if you are gonna >run a V8, V6 calpaks don't work > >About the only thing you gotta worry bout is vats and maybe the egr error >bit > >None of the other stuff is required > >gl:peter > > > I have a 730 ecm variety from a 92 Camaro 3.1L V6. Does this ECM have >all the programming and tables located in the EEPROM (MEMCAL) or does it >contain some of the base program in ROM somewhere else on the PCB? > > I'm curious because I need to get it reprogrammed to remove the EGR, AC, >AIR, and VATS functions. > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:49:12 -0600 From: "Chet Wagner" Subject: Omni Injection I have an older (79) Dodge Omni that has been nothing but problems. The carburator is at fault but to get a new one costs more than 400 dollars. I could make an injection system cheaper than that. The car is a daily driver with a long trip every once in a while. It has a manual 4 speed and has a 1.7 liter Volkswagen enging in it (blew toe original in 1980). Any body have any ideas on what computer I should use, preferable on that I can reprogram? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 21:51:58 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: looking for GM smartcoil driver circuit... | Anyone playing around with the GM smart coils? Grumpy was starting on a project with 'em. Just toggled C from 5v to ground. NICE, spark..... Pain in the butt, plug wires thou. If you find bulk terminals please share where, ya get em, please. Doc | What type of driver circuit are you using? | John C. Lagerquist ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 22:06:39 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Prowler V6 eclark@xxx.com wrote: > > On Sun, 30 May 1999, Shannen Durphey wrote: > > > Bad rumor to put any faith in. Many 4 bolt Chevys are cast crank. > > Post 86, only steel cranks are in LT1, LT4, and ZZx series engines > > (ok, ok, smallblock, 5.7, gen II engines). Also use powdered > > connecting rods, prone to sudden failure rather than bending, but much > > stronger until they break. ; ) Ligenfelter Perf. Engineering is > > selling some of this stuff that they pulled at low mileage to build > > some stronger engines. > > I just put a new oil pan on my '93 f-body LT1, and it sure didnt look like > a steel crank. It looked like ever other cast crank i've seen. > > -Eric Whatsa forged crank look like in the car? Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 19:04:41 -0700 From: "Mike Pilkenton" Subject: o2 options I need to obtain an O2 sensor and an inlet air temp. sensor for my 3.1L V6 project and was wondering what options I have. Are all GM sensors basically the same or should I stick with the OEM ones? I checked pricing for these and they seemed rather steep. What are typical prices? Mike ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 19:07:05 -0700 From: ".." Subject: Re: Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? This "Torsen" thread was fuzzy to me until you mentioned "Gleason-Torsen".. Bingo, I distinctly remember these as a very close friend had invested in one and I recall that it performed exceptionally well. The unit was a work of art compared to the FoMoCo, Mopar, GM units of it's day; albeit, quite a few more bucks - until you added in the cost of rebuilding the stockers and the hassle of having to do the rebuilds. rap Dave Williams wrote: > -> what happens when an automatic transmission is in park, and Torsen is > -> named after Mr. Norberg Torsen who invented that special kind of > -> mechanism (he was Swedish). > > The Torsen was invented by Vernon Gleasman and originally built by the > Gleason (note the difference in name) works. The name is an acronym > built from "TORque SENsing". > > Conceptually the Gleasman-Torsen was similar to other worm-type > differentials dating clear back to the early part of the century; > Gleasman's primary contribution to the state of the art was the design > of the machinery needed to cut the worms accurately and economically. > > If there was a Mr. Norberg Torsen, I've never heard of him. > > ==dave.williams@xxx.us====================================== > I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? > my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? > =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 22:22:57 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Crankshafts.. my mistake (was Re: Prowler V6) eclark@xxx.com wrote: > > On Sun, 30 May 1999, Shannen Durphey wrote: > > I just put a new oil pan on my '93 f-body LT1, and it sure didnt look like > a steel crank. It looked like ever other cast crank i've seen. > > -Eric Lt1, Lt4 engines use nodular cast crank, not forged. Ya don't have to tear your pan back off. ; ) Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:35:13 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: o2 options GM exculsive: Delco replacements generally cheaper then gm. For O2s use gm, or delco. Anything else use Standard Ignition parts (LI New York). There is some real crap in the market place. Cheers Grumpy | I need to obtain an O2 sensor and an inlet air temp. sensor for my 3.1L V6 | project and was wondering what options I have. Are all GM sensors basically | the same or should I stick with the OEM ones? I checked pricing for these | and they seemed rather steep. What are typical prices? | | Mike | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 22:41:46 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Prowler V6 Gary Derian wrote: > > The Z-28 has a 10,000 rpm engine? The old 302s were redlined at 6000. Not being a smart***, is this something you've seen? Some of us just have the older guys' stories and picture books to go by. Guess if I get "Yes @#$#%, I've seen it" then I'm just gonna have to hope to find one in a show. >The > highest redline pushrod Chevy I know is the old 327/365 and 327/375 which > had 6200 rpm redlines. It is pretty tough to get a pushrod valvetrain to > work at 10,000 rpm No kidding. That's why I thought this engine was so interesting. Shannen > > Gary Derian > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:47:14 -0700 From: "Michael Selig" Subject: Best Chevy EFI engine I am looking to do a couple engine swaps in the near future. I would like to put a Vortec or equivalvent TPI engine in a Hummer. This needs to have an RV cam and lots of low end torque to move that 68k lb alum shell around on the rocks and such. My question is: What is the best all around chevy engine and car, year --to approach an auto salvage yard to acquire the engine harness and computer, and everything complete that is needed, all in one shot. I believe that camaros came with it in 1989. Or should one look to take one out of later blazer or suburban..?? My stock 350 TBI from the Hummer could probably be replanted in the a 79 CJ 5. Would be nice to upgrade it to TPI. What is your advise?? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------- Good judgment comes from experience, and a lotta that comes from bad judgment. "Reality will kill you unless you deal with it through myths and metaphors." Ray Bradbury Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make them all yourself. "This Millenium was for practice. Next one counts!" Life's a journey, not a destination.. Enjoy the pitstops and maximize the straights Laws of Life: 1) Don't sweat the small stuff. 2) Everything is small stuff. "Love may be blind, but marriage is a real eye-opener" Michael Selig, MD, FACC. www.lifelinecardiology.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 22:50:22 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? Aaron Willis wrote: > > At 02:48 PM 6/1/99 -0700, you wrote: > > > >I thought all GN's were posi's, this one musta been a limited slip or > >somethin... > > > >LATER!, > > > >Todd.... > > > OOOOH, Todd, now you've done it...hit me right on the Pet Peeve button!! > POSI (Positraction) is nothing but Chevrolet's brand name for > limited-slip...I constantly encounter people (metric hammer users) who > insist that "Posi" is a technical term for any non-open diff, while > "limited slip" means an open diff..."limited" meaning it slips until you > let off the throttle. I am thinking of going to the term "UNlimited slip" > to help clarify this concept... Kinda like discussing high vs low gear ratios... Shannen > > Aaron Willis > ICQ #27386985 > AOL IM: hemiyota > http://surf.to/garage-te51 Garage TE51 International ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 22:59:20 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: To Todd Gary Derian wrote: > > The basecoat/clearcoat paints I have used require the clear to be painted > within 24 hrs of the base. This made painting flames a 24 hr marathon. > Paint yellow base, wait 4 hrs, mask flames for 8 hrs, paint red base, > unmask, paint clear. > > The base and clear coats chemically bond together. If you wait a week, you > have to sand the whole thing and reapply some more base. If you are just > painting some clear on top of regular paint, you still have to sand it > before the clear otherwise the clear won't stick. > > The solvents in paint should flash off between coats but the paint should > not cure. Might want to look into Standox paints. There's no hardener in the base coat. The base dries, but doesn't harden in the booth. Shannen > > Gary Derian > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:03:13 -0400 From: "Curtis Mittong" Subject: OBD2 problems Whoever has knowledge of this stuff may want to contact me offlist. I have alot of dumb questions that are probably below your intelligence levels and I don't want to clog up the list with too much "entry-level" chatter. Background: I have a 96 Impala SS. I plan on making the LT1 into a 409 (4.030 x 4"...which actually makes 408.17) and totally starting from the ground up. I am tired of bolt-ons that make a certain HP, I want to tailor each part to each other part and get a good reliable streetable engine. I am planning on output being in the 600+ hp range. I can build bulletproof engines that put out 1000 on nitrous with enough money and resources, but what I lack is the electronics know-how. I have the mechanical plans done. Currently, in my little burg there is no emissions testing, but I don't plan on living here forever, nor does my little burg plan on never testing, so my baby needs to be street legal (or have the potential to be once a year). I have seen an LT1 with a stock PCM and an Accell piggyback make 592 hp, but that was with the stock Optispark and it was pushed to the limit. Its hard to get the PCMs to reliably support more than 500. I think with the right tuning, I could get 650hp to pass a sniffer, but without OBD2 compatibility, I'm not technically legal. 1) Someone with emissions knowledge; what do they check and is it all ok if it passes the sniffer? Or does it have to be a certain configuration? Certain hardware intact? 2) Since Iive where they don't check, does that mean that I have free reign, or is it still illegal but no-one checks? 3) Is there maybe an OBD2 computer that will easily support that much HP? I want overkill, not just squeezing out 642hp. I may want to add nitrous or a blower later. 4) Is "emissions legal" as easy as using "street legal" or CARB approved parts? What I really need is someone to take my hand and walk me through this. My main problem is this: I can take my parts to the machine shop and get what I want and I can build the engine to support the HP. But, if I take it to my "EFI guy" and he says that its not set up to best use the EFI he had in mind, then I have already failed in tailoring all the parts together. I want to know enough that I can make accurate plans to make compatible systems work best. It can make the difference between a few extra HP and a detonated engine. Thanks Curtis Mittong ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:14:38 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: Best Chevy EFI engine I'd be looking at M-60 Tank drivetrains for 68,000# vehicles. For 6.8, then BBC, and the newer the better. Doc | This needs to have | an RV cam and lots of low end torque to move that 68k lb alum shell around | on the rocks and such. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 23:12:34 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Best Chevy EFI engine > an RV cam and lots of low end torque to move that 68k lb alum shell around > on the rocks and such. Big Block, or a small block with a turbo, or a big block with two turbos. I did the latter successfully. > computer, and everything complete that is needed, all in one shot. If you can find a motor home engine, you'll find the least radical cam installed... and there is nothing stopping you from taking such a cam, or ordering one from your favorite engine part supplier, and shoving it into a Camaro, Vette, or other high performance 350V8. Me, I'd get the cam aftermarket that suits your purposes, then slap it in the nicest, smoothest sounding junkyard engine that has _good_ oil pressure. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 23:15:43 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Prowler V6 > Not being a smart***, is this something you've seen? Some of us just While I like taking chances and blowing up engines (personal hobby of my friends and I), I will state that *I* or *WE* have never successfully revved any production V8 engine to 10,000 RPM. The exception is a fully race prepared Donovan block with massively overpriced custom made stuff, and a small 4-banger here and there. I think my friend with the Rx7 engine claimed 10k RPM, but I for one never witnessed this. Anyway, V8's having more rotating mass, generate more forces on the rods, yada yada, and OEM stuff simply breaks. If you have such a beast, drive to Bridgeport, CT, and I will gladly refute such a claim after attaching my tachometer to your engine for 30 minutes :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:20:19 +1000 From: Peter Gargano Subject: Re: Knock sensors Knock? -- I reckon ION sense technology is starting to look real good! A friend just sent me a nice SAAB brochure called "Form & Function: SAAB's approach to designing and building cars". Great photos and sketches, including a cutaway of their Trionic coil - seems to have a ferrite core and turns ratio of about 1:5, but they claim "40,000 at the moment of ignition" - explain that! They have a nice photo of their Trionic ECU's PCB. It has a Motorola CPU, can't quite make it out, maybe a 68332 (unit manufactured by Loxor Electronics)? Bruce Plecan wrote: > Heck, they can pick up the fractured ribs in a serpentine belt. A poor > Alternator bearing. Timing gears might give it KS a migrane, from all the > noise. - -- Peter Gargano ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 23:31:11 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? Todd....!! wrote: > > Jim, > > I'm now mostly a Mopar man, and have a Dana 60 which has a FULL POSI > most of the time, the posi only 'breaks' when doing a slow tight turn... > sometimes you can actually hear the clutches 'break'/slip during this > procedure... > > Whereas the Chev type limited slips are only posi's when ya need it, > i.e. under high load and such... Depends. Some GM cars use a spring loaded clutch pack that resists axle slippage. This is a limited slip. From time to time a detroit locker's been available. Some of the late 70's-late 80's 7 1/2" and 7 5/8" diffs, and I think some earlier Pontiacs, used a threaded cone and cup type diff that was supposed to lock during wheel slip. Later trucks have a flyweight and gear clutch setup that turns a cam underneath the posi clutches to reduce slip during wheel spin. Fragile, IMHO. There are probably other types that I've forgotten or don't know about. Traction lock comes to mind, but I don't know if it was a factory option, and don't know much about it. > > In comes that GN that was spinnin only ONE tire around the turns (the > lighter weighted tire, i.e. inside turn tire) when the boost came > in...(He spun out several times due to the need to spin in order to even > come close to qualifying for further runs...needless to say, he didn't > make the cut) I'm finding out that stiff springs and large rear sway bar can cause even posi-equipped cars to spin the inside rear tire. Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:31:57 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: OBD2 problems | Whoever has knowledge of this stuff may want to contact me offlist. I have | alot of dumb questions that are probably below your intelligence levels and | I don't want to clog up the list with too much "entry-level" chatter. Lots of guys start with "entry level chatter". Gotta get info to even ask questions. The archives is an excellent resource of material. If your really new to efi, just start at archive 1, and start reading. I've gotten to downloading them and editing them into a format that I like, and read them all the time, at home. snip | 1) Someone with emissions knowledge; what do they check and is it all ok if | it passes the sniffer? Or does it have to be a certain configuration? | Certain hardware intact? It varies some by location, you might investigate what is being done in your state or where you plan on moving to. | 2) Since Iive where they don't check, does that mean that I have free reign, | or is it still illegal but no-one checks? IT's illegal by the fed EPA to alter a vehicles emissions.. Just not policed yet, the feds hold highway funds to get the states to enforce the fed law. As I understand it all. | 3) Is there maybe an OBD2 computer that will easily support that much HP? I | want overkill, not just squeezing out 642hp. I may want to add nitrous or a | blower later. Given enough time and money you "could" make a OBDII computer pretty dumb. | 4) Is "emissions legal" as easy as using "street legal" or CARB approved | parts? Generally CARB sets the level for what is accepted, other than oem. | What I really need is someone to take my hand and walk me through this. My | main problem is this: I can take my parts to the machine shop and get what | I want and I can build the engine to support the HP. But, if I take it to | my "EFI guy" and he says that its not set up to best use the EFI he had in | mind, then I have already failed in tailoring all the parts together. I | want to know enough that I can make accurate plans to make compatible | systems work best. It can make the difference between a few extra HP and a | detonated engine. Thanks IMHO, making 600HP smog legally can be done, but gets expensive, My vote is finding something lighter and settling for fewer HP.. Doc | Curtis Mittong | | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 23:38:44 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Twin O2 sensor question Chris Wilson wrote: > > Hello EFI, > > I am about to remove the 2 cats from my Supra twin turbo (1994) to > alleviate any restriction, but I have a question. Currently, there is > an O2 sender just after the 2 turbos join at a common outlet point, > then a pre cat, then a bit of plain pipe, with what *appears* to be a > second 02 sender, and about 2 feet further back, a second, main cat. > > Thanks, I'd better ask before cutting .... :-) This is just a question. Are you sure the second cat is really a cat? Some cars have a resonator installed after the converter. Shannen > > -- > > Best Regards, > Chris > > mailto:chris@xxx.uk > > http://www.formula3.demon.co.uk > > Performance car sales at http://www.formula3.demon.co.uk/forsale.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 23:43:21 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Downloading (was Re: ) Might want to right click on file name, then "save file as". Shannen Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com wrote: > > Thanks Steve; I will give it a try, appreciate your help > Don > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: steve ravet [SMTP:Steve.Ravet@xxx.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 3:16 PM > > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > Subject: Re: > > > > > > > > Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com wrote: > > > > > > I have tried to down load the 747 Bins into promedit but had zero luck. > > Is > > > there a procedure to copy a bin then load it into > > > promedit ? I do not have any experience with these programs. > > > Thanks for your > > help > > > > To download bins, go to the main site (efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu), click > > on diy_efi, click on "ftp site index", then click on the file you want > > to download. Netscape should prompt you for a filename. > > > > As far as getting it into promedit or tuna, you'll have to check the > > readme for each. It's been a while since I used them and I don't recall > > the command line for either. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: steve ravet [SMTP:Steve.Ravet@xxx.com] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 9:45 AM > > > > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > > > > Subject: Re: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Geffro wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi folks > > > > > I've been searching the diy--efi website without much luck > > > > > Have read prog 101 but i dont understand any of it > > > > > eg > > > > > > > > > > The PROM has tables and some program code. It maps into processor > > space > > > > > from 0xd000 to 0xdfff. The ROM appears in the processor space from > > > > 0xe000 to > > > > > 0xffff. Data space in the PROM is from 0x000 to 0x616. Code starts > > at > > > > 0x617 > > > > > and continues to the end of the PROM, 0xfff. > > > > > > > > > > So to learn this where do i go ? > > > > > > > > Well, I hate to say it but read through the archives, searching for > > > > programming 101. Also read the tuning tips document which describes > > how > > > > it all works together. And pay attention to what comes across the > > gmecm > > > > list. > > > > > > > > Also download some of the 747 bins and run them through either > > promedit > > > > or tuna. That way you can actually see some of the tables, see how > > > > spark timing varies by load and rpm, etc. > > > > > > > > > I have collected a few proms that I'd like to read. > > > > > So can you good folk > > > > > tell me what I need > > > > > Is a prom reader an emulator and burner?cause i'd like to buy one > > > > > > > > A reader/programmer is different from an emulator. You need a > > > > reader/programmer, the emulator is nice but not necessary. > > > > > > > > --steve > > > > > > > > > whatever so i can start to work thiis out > > > > > Cheers > > > > > Geoff > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Steve Ravet > > > > steve.ravet@xxx.com > > > > Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. > > > > www.arm.com > > > > -- > > Steve Ravet > > steve.ravet@xxx.com > > Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. > > www.arm.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:42:58 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: Prowler V6 I'm surprised ya haven't tried harder. Turn 9 at the ol Riverside Course had done 10K to alot of engines, usually cause they caught 2 instead of 4 onna downshift. NOs has done a couple that if not at 10K were real close. Rotaries, ya Sleepy | > Not being a smart***, is this something you've seen? Some of us just | While I like taking chances and blowing up engines (personal hobby of my | friends and I), I will state that *I* or *WE* have never successfully | revved any production V8 engine to 10,000 RPM. | The exception is a fully race prepared Donovan block with massively | overpriced custom made stuff, and a small 4-banger here and there. I | think my friend with the Rx7 engine claimed 10k RPM, but I for one never | witnessed this. | Anyway, V8's having more rotating mass, generate more forces on the | rods, yada yada, and OEM stuff simply breaks. | If you have such a beast, drive to Bridgeport, CT, and I will gladly | refute such a claim after attaching my tachometer to your engine for 30 | minutes :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 23:47:00 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? Jim Davies wrote: . > > Oh, yeah. There is no more good posi lube available, complicating things. Oh, no. I have two pints, they will be hoarded. We still buy the additive at the dealership. Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 21:14:51 -0600 From: "Programmer" Subject: Re: SUN Scope Don, Try SnapOn / Sun division--or check their webpages for info. They usually have repair depots (Equiserve) that end up doing the actual repairs on older equipment. Hope this helps... - --Original Message----- From: Don.F.Broadus@xxx.com> To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 11:17 AM Subject: SUN Scope >I was given a SUN 820 engine tester with a model SS-80 scope. I plan to use >the scope with a SUN 404 distributor machine to spin >an HEI and bench test a 747. The SS-80 has a bad power transformer >(shorted primary) does any one have schematics or repair >manuals for SUN automotive test equipment. The SS-80 has a limit of 40KV but >I figure a simple voltage divider will extend that. > >Thanks for any help > >Don > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:46:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Roger Heflin Subject: Re: OBD2 problems On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, Curtis Mittong wrote: > Whoever has knowledge of this stuff may want to contact me offlist. I have > alot of dumb questions that are probably below your intelligence levels and > I don't want to clog up the list with too much "entry-level" chatter. > > Background: I have a 96 Impala SS. I plan on making the LT1 into a 409 > (4.030 x 4"...which actually makes 408.17) and totally starting from the > ground up. I am tired of bolt-ons that make a certain HP, I want to tailor > each part to each other part and get a good reliable streetable engine. I > am planning on output being in the 600+ hp range. I can build bulletproof > engines that put out 1000 on nitrous with enough money and resources, but > what I lack is the electronics know-how. I have the mechanical plans done. > Currently, in my little burg there is no emissions testing, but I don't plan > on living here forever, nor does my little burg plan on never testing, so my > baby needs to be street legal (or have the potential to be once a year). I > have seen an LT1 with a stock PCM and an Accell piggyback make 592 hp, but > that was with the stock Optispark and it was pushed to the limit. Its hard > to get the PCMs to reliably support more than 500. I think with the right > tuning, I could get 650hp to pass a sniffer, but without OBD2 compatibility, > I'm not technically legal. > I think there aren't alot of people that could make a computer controlled drivable engine with the stock ECM. I dont thing the stock ECM runs into limits, rather the sides of the injectors required to fuel things make the idle bad. I am not really how sure I believe that as my 350 Lt1 is driving 30lb injectors just find and the idle is just fine (after quite a bit of adjusting). I think the other issue is with radical changes you need to change more than just the WOT fuel table, you need to properly adjust the VE table for things to run good, and this takes alot of time to do properly. > 1) Someone with emissions knowledge; what do they check and is it all ok if > it passes the sniffer? Or does it have to be a certain configuration? > Certain hardware intact? > Well, they will do a visual inspection before the sniffer, and if the visual inspection fails they won't do the sniffer test. Usual failures are missing cat and similar obvious things. I really dont think anyone would notice the computer being added on to or replaced if things were not obvious. > 2) Since Iive where they don't check, does that mean that I have free reign, > or is it still illegal but no-one checks? > > 3) Is there maybe an OBD2 computer that will easily support that much HP? I > want overkill, not just squeezing out 642hp. I may want to add nitrous or a > blower later. > I would not suggest adding N2O or a blower wit ha 409, the cylinder walls are supposed to be too thin to support that sort of thing for very long. > 4) Is "emissions legal" as easy as using "street legal" or CARB approved > parts? > > What I really need is someone to take my hand and walk me through this. My > main problem is this: I can take my parts to the machine shop and get what > I want and I can build the engine to support the HP. But, if I take it to > my "EFI guy" and he says that its not set up to best use the EFI he had in > mind, then I have already failed in tailoring all the parts together. I > want to know enough that I can make accurate plans to make compatible > systems work best. It can make the difference between a few extra HP and a > detonated engine. Thanks > I don't thinkg there is any tuning of the engine to the EFI there is adjusting the EFI properly to run the engine, and I really don't think the issue is with it being possible, it is with someone knowing how to do it. Tuning takes along time, with DFI or the stock ECM, the only real way to eliminate most of the tuning is to get wide ratio O2 sensors. Also I don't think ou will get that kind of Hp out of a 409 and have it streetable. I am pulling 370hp(rear wheel) out of a 350 Lt1 in a 93 camaro, I would be able to get somewhere around 420 out of a 396 in a streetable config. You could add a bit wilder cam and make it harder to street and push the torque curve higher, but that would probably only give you 10-15 more hp. Better heads 20-30 more hp, and better headers and exhaust than I have would maybe get 40 more hp. So about 440 or so from a 409 and add 15+30+40 and you have 530 or so hp. Now maybe if you went with solid lifters and raised the rev limiter to 7k+ you could get that kind of hp, but I don't think most people class solid lifters as streetable, and the engine life with that stroke and high rpms would be severly limited. Now there are a few people getting over 600hp on a streetable Lt1 but they are all using large blowers (close to 20psi or more), or large N2O shots. > Curtis Mittong > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 23:55:52 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Prowler V6 dzorde@xxx.com wrote: > > Yeah, there are the Asian metric sizes (like 12mm, 15mm, 18mm hex heads) and > European metric sizes (like 13mm, 17mm, 19mm hex heads). And lately I have > started finding 3/8" nuts and bolts with 15mm hex heads (I was quite surprised > to find that neither a 9/16" or a 5/8" ring spanner would fit, but a 15mm did) > > Dan dzorde@xxx.com > Once upon a time, American wrench sets came with a 19/32" wrench. This works out to 14.5 mm. Any chance this is what you have found? Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 00:01:34 EDT From: A70Duster@xxx.com Subject: Re: Knock sensors In a message dated 6/2/99 9:20:46 PM Mountain Daylight Time, peter@xxx.au writes: << including a cutaway of their Trionic coil - seems to have a ferrite core and turns ratio of about 1:5, but they claim "40,000 at the moment of ignition" - explain that! >> The voltage from an inductor is v(t) = L di/dt Also collapsing magnetic fields. Plus 40 kV is not new to electronic ignition systems. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 00:03:28 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: OBD2 problems At 10:46 PM 6/2/99 -0500, you wrote: >I think there aren't alot of people that could make a computer >controlled drivable engine with the stock ECM. I dont thing the stock >ECM runs into limits, rather the sides of the injectors required to >fuel things make the idle bad. I am not really how sure I believe >that as my 350 Lt1 is driving 30lb injectors just find and the idle is >just fine (after quite a bit of adjusting). I think the other issue I agree... I put 29.5 lb/hr injectors in my 95 LeSabre (231ci V6) and it idled beautifully... BLM at 128 and INT bouncing between 127 and 129. WOT was very pleasant as well with the injectors only about 60% duty cycle. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:06:38 -0500 From: "Dan Plaskett" Subject: Re: Prowler V6 The easiest way to distinguish between cast and forged crankshafts is to look at the parting line. A broad surface indicates a forging. A thin line indicates a casting. If the crank is out of the car tap it with a hammer (not on the journals please). If it rings like a bell it is forged. A casting will respond with a dull thud. (Courtesy of Small Block Chevy Performance by Dave Emanuel) - -----Original Message----- From: Shannen Durphey To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 9:58 PM Subject: Re: Prowler V6 >eclark@xxx.com wrote: >> >> On Sun, 30 May 1999, Shannen Durphey wrote: >> >> > Bad rumor to put any faith in. Many 4 bolt Chevys are cast crank. >> > Post 86, only steel cranks are in LT1, LT4, and ZZx series engines >> > (ok, ok, smallblock, 5.7, gen II engines). Also use powdered >> > connecting rods, prone to sudden failure rather than bending, but much >> > stronger until they break. ; ) Ligenfelter Perf. Engineering is >> > selling some of this stuff that they pulled at low mileage to build >> > some stronger engines. >> >> I just put a new oil pan on my '93 f-body LT1, and it sure didnt look like >> a steel crank. It looked like ever other cast crank i've seen. >> >> -Eric >Whatsa forged crank look like in the car? >Shannen > ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #329 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".