DIY_EFI Digest Thursday, June 3 1999 Volume 04 : Number 332 In this issue: Re: Knock sensors Re: Knocker sensors Re: Knocker sensors Re: Injectors Re: Prowler V6 Re: Prowler V6 Re: Prowler V6 Re: Prowler V6 Re: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices Re: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices Re: OBD2 solutions Re: Diff types Re: SBC V8 into Astro/Safari ? Re: Prowler V6 Re: Prowler V6 Re: Prowler V6 Re: Prowler V6 Posi Replies Re: g meter Re: Diff types Re: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices RE: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices Re: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices Re: looking for GM smartcoil driver circuit... Re: SBC V8 into Astro/Safari ? See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:59:05 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: Knock sensors | OK, | I'm REALLY new to the termonology in these parts... | Would op-amp and KS, and comparator be listed in the list of terms for | this group? If not, please define? Operational Amplifier, an amplifier Comparator, something that compares KS, Knock Sensor Radio Shack has a series of little "Mini Engineer's Notebooks" that cover the basics in opto couplers, op-amps, comparators,555s, and they have a beginners electronics book by Forrest Mimms III, that help. Doc | Thanks! | Todd.... Bruce Plecan wrote: | > Heck, they can pick up the fractured ribs in a serpentine belt. A poor | > Alternator bearing. Timing gears might give it KS a migrane, from all the | > noise. | > Next chance, I get I think I'm gonna try an op-amp, and comparator, and | > see what I get. | > In my experiments with the ESC Module KS, there were slight differences. | > >From memory, was a max of like 4 degrees knock to 0 for a given engine. | > Bruce | > | Hi all, | > | I am adapting a 730 to a Mopar RB engine and I have some questions about | > | Knock sensors: | > | How sensitive are knock sensors to noise generated by gear drives? If | > | they are affected would selection solve the problem? ( for instance a | > | knock sensor off a factory supercharged engine) | > | What about noise from mechanical (roller cams)? | > | Bill Edgeworth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:08:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Roger Heflin Subject: Re: Knocker sensors On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Peter Fenske wrote: > > > Hi Bill > > With the 3K carbon knock sensors, it should be possible > to build a resistor network to attenuate the knock > signal. > > Using the knock sensor in a voltage divider with a pullup > For esc error the dc voltage is checked in the area > of 2.5 volts. As long as the ecm sees this it is happy > This brings up the possibility of using a T network. > > Haven't tried it but it should work > > :peter > It does work. There are people on the f-body group that have tested it. Right now mine is attenuated 100% (the knock sensor failed) and right now I am running it disabled. So far no knock problems. Roger ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:11:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Roger Heflin Subject: Re: Knocker sensors On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Bill Edgeworth wrote: > Thanks for the info Peter, > This is a concern for me as I am still thinking about the roller after > reading an article where on an engine with less breathing ability than > mine it picked up 4/10ths over a 509 > and for the price of a good 3 bolt timing set I might as well buy a gear > set. > > Where could I find some info on this signal conditioner? Some people > resopnded saying that it is taken care of in the software????? I would > think that using a HC11 for signal processing would take up way to much > processor time. > > Regards, > > Bill > > Move > Over > Profesionals > Racing As far as the diagrams go from the HELM manuals I have, the ESC module (on GM's) appears to do the signal conditioning. If it detects enough energy in the right areas it pulls a output high and the computer interpretes this as knock. Now there probably could be some improvement in the ESC module that would make it more correctly detect knock. And how the computer respondes when it gets knock is taken care of in software, ie max retard and how fast it retarts, and how fast it recovers. Roger ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 12:12:09 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Injectors Thanks for that experiential info Grumpy! I 'preciate it as well... LATER! Todd.... - ------- Bruce Plecan wrote: > > | > > Try these guys: > | > > Linder Technical Services (317-487-1868 or www.lindertech.com) > > I've talked to Jim, and bothered his staff with questions from time to time, > and they seem to be nice folks. I bought a scanner from him, and it was as > advertised. > I've used reconditioned injectors (thou not his), and have had good > results. > Grumpy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 12:25:43 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Prowler V6 This lil ding trick works on just about ANY objects mad eouta the same two types of materials... Such as Flex plates? I had a stocker Mopar flex plate, held it up to a TCI SFI approved plate, the stocker thuded HARD whereas the TCI rang just like a bell, aside from the ringin, the two plates were TOTALLY IDENTICAL! A magnet even stuck to both of em.... So no help there... I did the test because I wondered why the Stock type flex plate cost only like $8, whereas the TCI unit cost over $40! Now I know, PLUS the TCI plate has held up to the 440 in almost perfect tune for over 3 or 4 months now! Whereas the stocker plates would brake only after a month or less!! LATER! Todd.... Dan Plaskett wrote: > > The easiest way to distinguish between cast and forged crankshafts is to > look at the parting line. A broad surface indicates a forging. A thin line > indicates a casting. If the crank is out of the car tap it with a hammer > (not on the journals please). If it rings like a bell it is forged. A > casting will respond with a dull thud. (Courtesy of Small Block Chevy > Performance by Dave Emanuel) > -----Original Message----- > From: Shannen Durphey > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 9:58 PM > Subject: Re: Prowler V6 > > >eclark@xxx.com wrote: > >> > >> On Sun, 30 May 1999, Shannen Durphey wrote: > >> > >> > Bad rumor to put any faith in. Many 4 bolt Chevys are cast crank. > >> > Post 86, only steel cranks are in LT1, LT4, and ZZx series engines > >> > (ok, ok, smallblock, 5.7, gen II engines). Also use powdered > >> > connecting rods, prone to sudden failure rather than bending, but much > >> > stronger until they break. ; ) Ligenfelter Perf. Engineering is > >> > selling some of this stuff that they pulled at low mileage to build > >> > some stronger engines. > >> > >> I just put a new oil pan on my '93 f-body LT1, and it sure didnt look > like > >> a steel crank. It looked like ever other cast crank i've seen. > >> > >> -Eric > >Whatsa forged crank look like in the car? > >Shannen > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 12:27:15 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Prowler V6 Maybe 29 minutes isn't a long time when daily driving the sucker, but 29 minutes at a quarter mile at a time is a LIFETIME! ey? LATER! Todd.... Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > I'm surprised ya haven't tried harder. > > Oh, we've tried hard. Its difficult to balance the weaknesses of oem > parts iwth high RPMs and reliability. > > my 849HP Buick V6 was a perfect example - 29 minutes is not reliable! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 12:30:21 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Prowler V6 Speakin of different size wrenches, anyone here ever heard of or used a set a tools known as Met-Wrench? The commercial makes them out to be some sorta SUPER wrenches, they don't look like too high quality of metal was used to make em, to me anyways... Anyone? LATER! Todd.... G. Scott Ponton wrote: > > There are four "standards" for fasteners. They relate to the thread pitch > more than anything although there are several different "head" sizes. Mostly > the Japanese/asian use 10, 12, 14, 17, 21, & 32. The europeon use 10, 13, > 14, 17, 19, 21 and various larger sizes. Other than the English. They used > to use what was called a Whitworth standard. These are the 3/8 bolts with > the "15mm" heads. Actually they are 19/32. They also used 23/32 (i think it > was.) I haven't seen those wrenches since my tools were stolen. You used to > get them in every Craftman set up until about 1975. You will also notice > that most, nearly all, of the English bolts are a "fine" thread pitch. It > isn't quite the same as SAE fine as the radius of the thread root is > different and although you can use one on the other they ussually are a very > tight fit and sometimes destroy the fasteners. Then of course you have SAE > standard inch sizes and the famous SAE standard metric sizes. Other than the > 15mm the 16 and 18 are so close to SAE 5/8 and 11/16 that many times you can > use these sizes to remove them. Maybe had something to do with it at the > start. > > Just my .02$ > > Scott ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 12:49:01 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Prowler V6 Motorcycles go up to what 15,000 rpm's or so? What's up with that then? They aren't usin aluminum rods and such are they? ALSO, the 'BIG' v-8's can be lightened BIG TIME... The most important weight to reduce first is the weight that is the furthest from the center of the crank, because, usually, at the furthest point, the higher speed of the part will occur... such as the tip of the piston, the piston in general can be lightened, at least on a B.B. Mopar by about a pound EACH! (By buying aftermarket, of course), so I'm sure the other engine's can be lightened in the same manner.. So that's 8 lb's off of part of the reciprocating assembly where the lightening has most of it's effects on load n all... THEN ya lighten the rods(But aftermarket(about $750 on up) for aluminum or titanium rods, and lighten them up even more, if possible! I bet you can save over a pound per rod with this swap, that's ANOTHER 8 lbs. off the internal rotating/reciprocating assembly... A TOTAL of 16 lbs. thus far! THEN take the CRANK, turn the counterbalances WAY down to account for 16 lbs. worth of lightening to the rotating/reciprocating assembly that it' supposed to counterbalance.... You should lose about another 8 lbs. AT LEAST, if not more. Then turn the Main and rod journals a few thou's to reduce (turning the rod journals reduces the weight of the outermost part of the crank itself thus lightening the entire total just a bit more) AND reduces the friction coefficient at the journals themselves, thus increasing the total HP output at ANY rpm...due to reducing internal friction losses.... The Mopar 451 stroker 400 engine uses ALL of these tricks in order to reduce the overall weight of the engine as well as a majority of it's internal component weight by MAJOR proportions, as you can see! ALSO the pistons themselves in the 451 stroker are WAY SHORTER than the stocker pistons that they replace, thus accounting for the massive weight loss of the pistons themselves! For more info about the 451, go to http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/451/ My goal is to F.I. and Turbo on eof these babies, kinda like Fre B. is doin.... Talk bout power! Take er easy... LATER! Todd.... http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/toddlnk.htm William T Wilson wrote: > > On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > While I like taking chances and blowing up engines (personal hobby of my > > friends and I), I will state that *I* or *WE* have never successfully > > revved any production V8 engine to 10,000 RPM. > > The only V8 engines I ever heard of that went 10,000 RPM were in > single-seat racers. > > Honda VTEC engines and Mazda rotaries can rev like mad because that's what > they do. Instead of displacement, they have RPM. Mazda rotary has a > stock redline of 8,000 RPM and that is conservative; new S2000 Honda VTEC > has a stock redline of 9,000 RPM. Neither of these engines is going to be > even slightly upset about going to 10,000 once in a while. > > You just can't do that with a big V8, though. It weighs too much. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:20:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Ford Subject: Re: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices Previously, you (Todd....!!) wrote: > Thanks for the clarification Peter, > > However, when yo mention that 'ARB's can only be used on surfaces with a > low coefficient of friction or straight line driving, most drivers don't call straight line stuff real driving, corners are where the men are seperated from the boys ( ducking for cover 8)) >. That is, off road, or drag racing.' > > Drag racing MOSTLY relies on GETTING TRACTION, whereas a HIGH > coefficient of friction (Good to GREAT) i.e. traction, is one of the > primary goals... > > I'm confused about your post... > > Any help? it's like parttime 4wd you can drive it on dry pavement but cornering is hard on driveline parts. My landrover wont turn a corner with the back dif locked. the front tires just plow. Ever driven a 3 wheel atc and try to turn sharply without pinning the back tires?? same thing > > Thanks, > > Todd.... > > > Peter D. Hipson wrote: > > > > ARB's can only be used on surfaces with a low coefficient of friction. That > > is, off road, or drag racing. In either of these areas, who cares about > > mileage! Strong: well, we beat the hell out of them on trails, and they > > don't break very often. Most common problem is air leaks, etc. > > > > At 04:30 PM 6/2/99 -0700, you wrote: > > >Can ya do a W.O.T. launch with the button OFF, then turn it on in the > > >middle of the launch, under FULL TORQUE? > > > > > >Just how strong is this unit? > > > > > >AND, would a car with one of these air posi's get better gas mileage > > >with the posi OFF than it would with the air-posi on? > > > > > >Just wondrinnnnn......... > > > > > > > > >LATER! > > > > > >Todd....!! > > > > > > > > >Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > >> > > >> > The type of posi is NOT dictated by the type of rear it's in or made > > for. There are limited slip, Torsen and locking differentials made for the > > Dana 60. If you want to know what type of unit is in the rear you'll have > > to actually look at it. > > >> > > >> And this is not a sarcastic response, either :) > > >> > > >> I'd highly recommend an ARB airlocker for this rear. direct bolt in, > > >> easy to control with a pushbutton, and totally open when needed. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> > > >> Frederic Breitwieser > > >> Bridgeport CT 06606 > > >> > > >> 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental > > >> 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy > > >> 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos > > >> 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > Peter Hipson (founder, NEHOG) > > 1995 White NA Hummer Wagon > > - -- Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 14:29:25 -0400 From: "Peter D. Hipson" Subject: Re: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices Right, I was not clear... In drag racing, you go straight, which works. ARB's won't like being turned frequently while locked up. At 11:57 AM 6/3/99 -0700, you wrote: >Thanks for the clarification Peter, > >However, when yo mention that 'ARB's can only be used on surfaces with a >low coefficient of friction. That is, off road, or drag racing.' > >Drag racing MOSTLY relies on GETTING TRACTION, whereas a HIGH >coefficient of friction (Good to GREAT) i.e. traction, is one of the >primary goals... > >I'm confused about your post... > >Any help? > >Thanks, > >Todd.... > > >Peter D. Hipson wrote: >> >> ARB's can only be used on surfaces with a low coefficient of friction. That >> is, off road, or drag racing. In either of these areas, who cares about >> mileage! Strong: well, we beat the hell out of them on trails, and they >> don't break very often. Most common problem is air leaks, etc. >> >> At 04:30 PM 6/2/99 -0700, you wrote: >> >Can ya do a W.O.T. launch with the button OFF, then turn it on in the >> >middle of the launch, under FULL TORQUE? >> > >> >Just how strong is this unit? >> > >> >AND, would a car with one of these air posi's get better gas mileage >> >with the posi OFF than it would with the air-posi on? >> > >> >Just wondrinnnnn......... >> > >> > >> >LATER! >> > >> >Todd....!! >> > >> > >> >Frederic Breitwieser wrote: >> >> >> >> > The type of posi is NOT dictated by the type of rear it's in or made >> for. There are limited slip, Torsen and locking differentials made for the >> Dana 60. If you want to know what type of unit is in the rear you'll have >> to actually look at it. >> >> >> >> And this is not a sarcastic response, either :) >> >> >> >> I'd highly recommend an ARB airlocker for this rear. direct bolt in, >> >> easy to control with a pushbutton, and totally open when needed. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Frederic Breitwieser >> >> Bridgeport CT 06606 >> >> >> >> 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental >> >> 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy >> >> 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos >> >> 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) >> > >> > >> > >> Thanks, >> Peter Hipson (founder, NEHOG) >> 1995 White NA Hummer Wagon > > > > Thanks, Peter Hipson (founder, NEHOG) 1995 White NA Hummer Wagon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:31:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Roger Heflin Subject: Re: OBD2 solutions On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Curtis Mittong wrote: > Thanks all for your inputs. > > >I dont thing the stock > >ECM runs into limits, rather the sides of the injectors required to > >fuel things make the idle bad. > > This is good. I didn't know that larger injectors made potentially rough > idles. Its stuff like this that I need to know. > If the injectors get too big it gets difficult to control the short openings at idle. Mine had 22 lb injectors originally (93 Z28), and I have 30 lb in it now, and it does idle. I have not yet adjusted the VE tables to properly setup things for my different torque/hp curve than stock, so my fuel adjustments tend to bounce around depending on how far off my tabled VE is from the real ve. Now my car is doing 370 rwhp with 7.1ms injector times, at 6000 rpm I have open it up to 9.0 ms, so 30lb injectors should be good for up to about 470 hp with the stock fuel pressure (if the fuel pump can supply that much). Then the real issue is having someone to do the computer, and that could get really expensive, since doing it right takes alot fo time. My car ran a 13.2 before the tuner worked on things. He got it down to 12.72, and I have since lowered things to 12.52 by adjusting the computer more, and based on others (much better) 60 ft times I should be able to get more out of it, at least .2 on just the 60 ft times. > >Now maybe if you went with solid lifters and raised the > >rev limiter to 7k+ you could get that kind of hp, but I don't think > >most people class solid lifters as streetable, and the engine life > >with that stroke and high rpms would be severly limited. > >Now there are a few people getting over 600hp on a streetable Lt1 but > >they are all using large blowers (close to 20psi or more), or large > >N2O shots. > > > Do you think that maybe 4-valve heads could support alot more accurate flow > with hydraulic lifters? I agree that solid lifters aren't the answer. I > built a 455 pontiac with solids and the 3000 mile adjustments started > getting to me. (it had 522 at the rears, but the constant 104 octane bills > hurt too) As far as the RPMs, I couldn't take it over 6500 and feel good > about the longevity of the package. I guess what I'm thinking is that if > 592 is possible with hydraulic lifters, maybe 600+ is possible. I need to > find that writeup and give you all the specs on that LT1 that CHP mag built. > I'm still trying to find the final verdict on the cylinder walls. I thought > they were too thin to even go 30-over, but I read about a kit for LT1s that > was a 414 ci stroker kit that called for a 60-over. They also have 4.125" > stroke cranks, but I thought for sure you would be into the jackets > clearancing that. Whooda thunk it? > I don't know about the 4 vavle heads, there are supposely 2 LT1 sets in existance, though I have not heard any confirmations about how they work. (Dominion heads?). I have seen their graphs (dominions) and I really don't know where our stock heads match up in their info. My ported heads are producing more power that their listed brand x heads, so I really don't know how much theirs would add. It also depends on whether the 592 number was at the crank or at the rear wheels. I believe I can probably get 420-460 hp at the rear wheels with a 396 with a fairly reasonable cam (224/236-114), and not too exoitic of heads. That would translate to somewhere over 500 hp equivalent at the crank. No ideas what they may be doing to get that big of bore. Maybe a different casting. > >idled beautifully... BLM at 128 and INT bouncing between 127 and 129. > >WOT was very pleasant as well with the injectors only about 60% duty cycle. > > Ummm.... BLM? INT? Big Loud Motor? Impressive New Trailer? > BLM - block learn - it tells how much the computer is needing to adjust fuel in closed loop. BLM is the long term, INT is the same things just done short term. INTS held over a long term will cause the BLM to be adjusted. > Curtis Mittong > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:32:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Ford Subject: Re: Diff types Previously, you (Todd....!!) wrote: > OK Jim, > > Must ask, what's hypoid gearing? Sounds interesting.... hypoid gears are a special cut in gears that allows the pinion to be on a different plane then the crown. older cars the pinion went straight into the middle of the axle ( as veiwed form the side). That made high tunnels in the floor I'll try some ascii art ____ / \ crown pinion =====>( + ) \ / --- hypoid is: ----- / \ ( + ) pinion ======>\ / ---- it's hard to get a circle in ascii. The big problem with a hypoid gearset is the gears slide into mesh ( wasted friction) next time you look at a pinion gear look at how the teeth are curved that is the hypoid cut hope that helps > > Off-list, if ya must! > > Thanks! > > Todd.... > > Jim Davies wrote: > > > > On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, SPECTRO COATING CORP. wrote: > > > > > Actually - Torsen was the manufacturer - Bob (I think that's his first name) > > > Gleason invented that differential design. Zexel was the manufacturer last i > > > knew. > > > > > Last name was actually Gleasman, but he changed it to Gleason. Also known > > for hypoid gearing... > > - -- Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:50:17 -0400 From: "C. Brooks" Subject: Re: SBC V8 into Astro/Safari ? I have the JTR book. The Astro Van section is only 4 pages or so but they do have a full scale drawing of the motor mounts you'll need to fabricate. If you would like I can scan most of the info for ya. Charles Brooks - -----Original Message----- From: steve ravet To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 2:15 PM Subject: Re: SBC V8 into Astro/Safari ? > > >Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020 wrote: >> >> I am looking for as much info as possible on the V8 into GM minivan swap >> >> a number of people offered me help before but I cannot find where I saved the >> messages (I have about 400 MB of archived email and it grows 4-5mb / day) >> >> I want to retain stock computer TBI system from 1986 Safari Cargo minivan >> >> I need details on >> 1. mounts, rads, waterpumps, etc for the mechanical installation >> can I use the 4.3 flexplate I have now for the 700 AT >> what headers work ( v8 into S10/15?) > >Go to www.jagsthatrun.com and get the "chevy tpi/tbi swapping book". >It's mostly about putting EFI engines into older chevelles and the like, >but there's a chapter on the Astro conversion. Anything you need in the >way of mechanical information should be there. > >> >> 2. chip changes in the ECU that are required to make it run and be within >> emissions for the 1986 model year > >Astros came with 747 ECMs, maybe not in '86 but certainly later. Get a >V8 747 bin from the ftp site and that should be a good starting point. >Also a 747 ECM if you don't have one. Mike Knell (JTR guy) says it's >best to buy a complete engine including accessories, ECM, sensors, >harness, etc. I agree although it's probably more expensive. That way >you minimize the number of connectors that don't fit, mystery brackets, >etc. > >> >> I should be able to use the stock TBI unit with a new cal >> I seem to remember that I have to change an addr. in the chip to tell the >> ECU it is now running 8 cyl instead of 6 >> >> any other details that could be supplied would be great > >Read programming 101 and tuning tips, lots of info about the 747 ECM. > >> >> Thanks >> Clive >> >> n > >-- >Steve Ravet >steve.ravet@xxx.com >Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. >www.arm.com > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:47:30 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: Prowler V6 The original US metric thread standard actually had a 6.3 mm thread. This was coincidentally exactly 1/4 inch. They did it so the jump in strength going up one size would be consistent. Needless to say this was a bad idea. A 6.3mm nut fit perfectly on a 6mm bolt with only 1/3 the strength. BTW, I always wondered what the 19/32 and 23/32 Craftsman wrenches were for. Are they collectables now? I can't wait for The Antiques Road Show to come to town. Cheap Asian copys of equipment copy everything, right down to the English threads except they can't get inch hex stock locally so they use metric. Gary Derian > There are four "standards" for fasteners. They relate to the thread pitch > more than anything although there are several different "head" sizes. Mostly > the Japanese/asian use 10, 12, 14, 17, 21, & 32. The europeon use 10, 13, > 14, 17, 19, 21 and various larger sizes. Other than the English. They used > to use what was called a Whitworth standard. These are the 3/8 bolts with > the "15mm" heads. Actually they are 19/32. They also used 23/32 (i think it > was.) I haven't seen those wrenches since my tools were stolen. You used to > get them in every Craftman set up until about 1975. You will also notice > that most, nearly all, of the English bolts are a "fine" thread pitch. It > isn't quite the same as SAE fine as the radius of the thread root is > different and although you can use one on the other they ussually are a very > tight fit and sometimes destroy the fasteners. Then of course you have SAE > standard inch sizes and the famous SAE standard metric sizes. Other than the > 15mm the 16 and 18 are so close to SAE 5/8 and 11/16 that many times you can > use these sizes to remove them. Maybe had something to do with it at the > start. > > Just my .02$ > > Scott ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:50:15 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: Prowler V6 I actually had a 1968 Z-28 and it had a 6000 rpm redline. If you claim it was 5800 or 6200 I would say OK. If you say 10,000 I say wait a minute. Gary Derian > Gary Derian wrote: > > > > The Z-28 has a 10,000 rpm engine? The old 302s were redlined at 6000. > > Not being a smart***, is this something you've seen? Some of us just > have the older guys' stories and picture books to go by. Guess if I > get "Yes @#$#%, I've seen it" then I'm just gonna have to hope to find > one in a show. > > >The > > highest redline pushrod Chevy I know is the old 327/365 and 327/375 which > > had 6200 rpm redlines. It is pretty tough to get a pushrod valvetrain to > > work at 10,000 rpm > > No kidding. That's why I thought this engine was so interesting. > > Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:58:18 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: Prowler V6 Anything GM did new since 1973 has been metric. The old stuff like small blocks are SAE. Newer stuff like transmissions and body parts are metric. Eventually (probably by now) everything will be metric. Gary Derian > > Man Bill, > > > > You SURE know your sae to Metric conversions! > > > > That sounds about right! > > > > I've been working on European built plastics machinery for many years, all > metric. a lot of the metric stuff Snap-On does not even make (try buying a 65 > mm wrench from Snap-On) have to buy German stuff (they don't make theirs out > of unobtanium) > > > And seeing as how most of freds rides are American built n all, I'd have > > to say that he was REALLY only 3/4 serious... > > > > > > A lot of newer american cars are now using a mix of metric and standard in > their cars. Oddly though these sizes seem different than what standards are in > the rest of the world. For instance most european hex head fasteners have head > sizes 10,13,17,19,22,24,27mm not sizes like 15 mm and 18 mm > Anybody know why? are these maybe JIS (Japanese) as opposed to DIN (German) > standards? > Or did the american auto manufacturers buy stock in the tool companies? > > Bill Edgeworth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:54:55 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: Prowler V6 Basically the solid lifter engines also got forged pistons and cranks. I think the Z-28 and LT-1 L-88, L-89 also had the cranks tufftrided. It was similar to nitriding, very thin surface hardness, and is used to improve the fatigue strength. The bearing surface does not have to be very hard, just finely polished. Gary Derian > Ross Corrigan wrote: > > > >Also, there was a 68 or 69 large journal 307 or 327 offered with > > >forged crank, tho I don't remember the details. Just remember going > > > > Line I've been fed is the 300+ (not 300, only above) hp 327's got forged > > cranks in the large journal setups. Read this more than once now in the > > chevy mags. Rest large journals were cast. My serial # matches a 325hp > > version but I didn't know enough when I did my quick re and re to check > > that part out to verify. This is only for 327's. > > Found a casting# site. This shows forged, 325hp, 69 327. > http://www.mortec.com/ > > > > In a mild street motor, ya get bragging rights. Some GM cranks had > hardened journals, but I don't know which, if any, were factory > installed. Hardening was not too deep. Machinists tell me that a > regrind usually removed it, and finding a less than pristine used > treated crank is no better than a non treated one. > Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:33:53 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Posi Replies All clutch type limited slip differentials work the same way. A series of clutches are placed between the axle and the carrier so that when one axle turns relative to the other, the clutches must slip. These clutches can be either multi disc or cup and cone. The mulit-disc are rebuildable, the cone type is not but they work the same. When the spider gears apply torque to the axles, they tend to spread apart, as do all gears. The spreading force from the spider gears applies the clutches. The higher the torque being applied, the greater the locking force. There is also some sort of pre-load spring to achieve a breakaway torque. The stiffer the preload, the harsher the engagement. For road racing, handling can be tuned with various amounts of preload as well as number of discs, etc. Too much anti-slip creates power understeer, not enough lets the inside tire spin. Locker types send all the power to the slowest turning axle by using one-way clutches. This is OK for drags but too harsh for the street or road racing. Torsens are really cool. They use the pressure angle of worm gears to apply the torque. They apply torque evenly until one axle tries to overspeed the other, then torque is shifted to the slower axle. If one axle brakes, the diff runs free. There are also viscous clutches that don't apply the clutches with springs, instead, a rheopectic fluid, like silly putty which increases viscosity as it shears, is in between the clutch plates. When they begin to slip, the fluid gets stiff and the clutches lock up. Gary Derian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:55:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Dufault Subject: Re: g meter > > Computer Application Jounal went under a few years ago > Took over my a scam artist named Gates (not Bill) > of Midnight Engineer fame. > Also had a Robotics mag. > He still ows me $100 if you find him, let me know! Wrong mag - "Circuit Cellar Ink / The Computer Applications Journal" is still alive and well and is Steve Ciarcia's (of the early Byte "circuit cellar" column) mag. See circuitcellar.com. This is a good mag. Peter - -- Peter Dufault (dufault@xxx.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 15:31:17 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Diff types > it's hard to get a circle in ascii. The big problem with a hypoid gearset > is the gears slide into mesh ( wasted friction) Actually, I had the same question and your ascii artwork illustrated the point clearly. - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 15:40:35 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices > or straight line driving, most drivers don't call straight line stuff > real driving, corners are where the men are seperated from the boys Oh really now? So, you considering holding on for dear life at 300MPH behind 6000HP "boy stuff"? Hmmmm, most interesting. > ( ducking for cover 8)) Good idea :) - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 15:39:03 -0400 From: Michael Kasimirsky Subject: RE: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices > > or straight line driving, most drivers don't call straight > line stuff > > real driving, corners are where the men are seperated from the boys > > Oh really now? So, you considering holding on for dear life at 300MPH > behind 6000HP "boy stuff"? Either way, cars are for wankers. REAL men dress in leather and drag their knees through the corners. Cars lean the wrong way, unlike motorcycles. Anything that surrounds you with a roll cage is "boy stuff" compared to throwing your bike into a corner at 100+ mph, knee skimming over the pavement, while you slide both tires at the same time. > > ( ducking for cover 8)) I'm right behind you.... :-) Michael Kasimirsky 1990 Yamaha FZR400 Superbike Racer Loki Motorsports 1993 Kawasaki ZX1100D1 Streetbike Rider FASTTRAX & WERA Expert #21 Sponsored by Loki Motorsports & Bridgestone mtk@xxx.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:50:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Squash Subject: Re: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices By the way, I have thousands of miles on my mechanical rear-end locker. Highway miles. It justs takes a day of driving to get used to it and all is good. Andy - --- Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > or straight line driving, most drivers don't call > straight line stuff > > real driving, corners are where the men are > seperated from the boys > > Oh really now? So, you considering holding on for > dear life at 300MPH > behind 6000HP "boy stuff"? > > Hmmmm, most interesting. > > > ( ducking for cover 8)) > > Good idea :) > > -- > > Frederic Breitwieser > Bridgeport CT 06606 > > 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental > 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy > 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + > turbos > 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:02:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Orin Eman Subject: Re: looking for GM smartcoil driver circuit... > | Anyone playing around with the GM smart coils? > Grumpy was starting on a project with 'em. Just toggled C from 5v to > ground. > NICE, spark..... > Pain in the butt, plug wires thou. If you find bulk terminals please share > where, ya get em, please. > Doc I have been investigating these... You have to raise the control line over 2.7V to 'arm' the coil. It then fires when the control line falls below 2.5V _OR_ 0.1 second later, whichever comes first. So, toggling between 5V and ground works fine. Input impedance is high, over 10k, so you don't do any harm connecting directly to 5V. I have driven them using an opto isolator (4N35), collector to 5V, emitter to resistor to coil, resistor to ground too. I also tried forming a darlington with the opto and a generic NPN in a similar config. Both methods work fine on the bench. Other things that I noticed were that it takes approximately 25 uS between grounding the control line and the spark and you don't get a very good spark with the control line high for only 1mS. As for connectors, I heard that wires that fit in some Bosch distributor caps work. I have yet to verify this though. If I get chance, I'll check my driver circuits and post them tomorrow. Orin. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:26:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020" Subject: Re: SBC V8 into Astro/Safari ? > > I have the JTR book. The Astro Van section is only 4 pages or so but they do > have a full scale drawing of the motor mounts you'll need to fabricate. If > you would like I can scan most of the info for ya. that would be great the mounts are pretty easy to make and cost about $ 100 US to buy over the counter here I saw a set once looks like it would take about $ 10 of steel and 10 min with a welder to make Thanks Clive ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #332 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".