DIY_EFI Digest Thursday, June 3 1999 Volume 04 : Number 333 In this issue: Re: Diff types Re: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices Re: Posi Replies Re: looking for GM smartcoil driver circuit... Re: TBI for a 3.4 V-6 crate Motor Re: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices [OT] Tools/standards Re: Men from the boys Re: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices Re: To Todd Re: Getting loans.. (WAY off topic) Re: Knock sensors metric to english conversion Re: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices Re: looking for GM smartcoil driver circuit... Re: g meter Re: Twin O2 sensor question Re: Prowler V6 socker sizes Was Prowler V6 Re: SBC V8 into Astro/Safari ? Re: metric to english conversion Re: Prowler V6 Re: Prowler V6 Re: Prowler V6 Re: Twin O2 sensor question Re: Prowler V6 Re: Prowler V6 See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:31:53 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Diff types >OK Jim, > >Must ask, what's hypoid gearing? Sounds interesting.... > >Off-list, if ya must! > >Thanks! > >Todd.... Straight bevel and spiral bevel (basically the bevel gear analogue to helical tooth conventional gearing) gearing--the centerline of the pinion intersects the centerline of the ring gear. Pitch surface (theoretical tooth contact surface) is a pair of cones. No sliding contact between teeth--all rolling contact. Hypoid gearing-the centerline of the pinion passes above or below (usually below, exception in "RR" (reverse rotation) front axle units). Pitch surface is a pair of hyperboloids of revolution. Sliding contact exists between the gear teeth, the further the pinion centerline misses the ring gear centerline by (for a given ring gear diameter), the more sliding exists (and the bigger the friction losses and heat build-up become). This sliding contact is the reason WHY you need a "hypoid" type gear oil, with the EP (extremee pressure) additive package in it for hypoid gears. Gleason (in Rochester, NY) is the leading (only??) manufacturer in the world of machinery for cutting hypoid gears. Regards, Greg > >Jim Davies wrote: >> >> On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, SPECTRO COATING CORP. wrote: >> >> > Actually - Torsen was the manufacturer - Bob (I think that's his first >>name) >> > Gleason invented that differential design. Zexel was the manufacturer >>last i >> > knew. >> > >> Last name was actually Gleasman, but he changed it to Gleason. Also known >> for hypoid gearing... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:38:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Ford Subject: Re: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices Previously, you (Frederic Breitwieser) wrote: > > or straight line driving, most drivers don't call straight line stuff > > real driving, corners are where the men are seperated from the boys > > Oh really now? So, you considering holding on for dear life at 300MPH > behind 6000HP "boy stuff"? I've done 120Kph ( ~ 65 -70mph) on the roof of 400hp (thats sorta how I meet my wife) No! shes not a nurse > > Hmmmm, most interesting. I'll watch drag racing when a corner or 2 is added to the course > > > ( ducking for cover 8)) > > Good idea :) have a good weekend all ( its aniversary time) > > -- > > Frederic Breitwieser > Bridgeport CT 06606 > > 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental > 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy > 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos > 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) - -- Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:47:13 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Posi Replies >All clutch type limited slip differentials work the same way. A series of >clutches are placed between the axle and the carrier so that when one axle >turns relative to the other, the clutches must slip. These clutches can be >either multi disc or cup and cone. The mulit-disc are rebuildable, the cone >type is not but they work the same. When the spider gears apply torque to >the axles, they tend to spread apart, as do all gears. The spreading force >from the spider gears applies the clutches. The higher the torque being >applied, the greater the locking force. There is also some sort of pre-load >spring to achieve a breakaway torque. The stiffer the preload, the harsher >the engagement. For road racing, handling can be tuned with various amounts >of preload as well as number of discs, etc. Too much anti-slip creates >power understeer, not enough lets the inside tire spin. > >Locker types send all the power to the slowest turning axle by using one-way >clutches. This is OK for drags but too harsh for the street or road racing. > >Torsens are really cool. They use the pressure angle of worm gears to apply >the torque. They apply torque evenly until one axle tries to overspeed the >other, then torque is shifted to the slower axle. If one axle brakes, the >diff runs free. > >There are also viscous clutches that don't apply the clutches with springs, >instead, a rheopectic fluid, like silly putty which increases viscosity as >it shears, is in between the clutch plates. When they begin to slip, the >fluid gets stiff and the clutches lock up. Two other REALLY neat types-- The gerotor--an oil pump is driven by speed differential between the two axles. The pressure output from the pump applies the clutches, and either the greater the speed difference, or the longer it exists, the greater the force applied to the clutches. The limited overrun type--was used in the Jensen FF transfer case center differ. There are two separate gear trains from one output, each with a one way sprag clutch. If slip exceeds a pre-determined % in either direction, the one way clutch prevents any more slip. The Jensen TC also used a planetary differ--to the torque split was unequal, front to rear, about 40% front, 60% rear. AND, the lockup ratios were different too--5 or 6% rear slip would divert torque to the front via one one way clutch, but it took 10 or 12% front slip before the other one way clutch/gear train diverted torque to the rear output. EXPENSIVE, and heavy, but pretty damn cool deal! Regards, Greg > >Gary Derian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 17:12:09 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: looking for GM smartcoil driver circuit... | I have been investigating these... | You have to raise the control line over 2.7V to 'arm' the coil. | It then fires when the control line falls below 2.5V _OR_ | 0.1 second later, whichever comes first. 0.1 sec later than what?. Meaning it fires a 0.1 sec after raising to 2.7v?. Sorry, I'm confused here. | So, toggling between 5V and ground works fine. Input impedance is | high, over 10k, so you don't do any harm connecting directly to 5V. | I have driven them using an opto isolator (4N35), collector to | 5V, emitter to resistor to coil, resistor to ground too. I also | tried forming a darlington with the opto and a generic NPN in a | similar config. Both methods work fine on the bench. | Other things that I noticed were that it takes approximately | 25 uS between grounding the control line and the spark and | you don't get a very good spark with the control line high | for only 1mS. Just curious was this with a battery type power supply, or an amperage limited test bench power supply?. Could there be a coil "charge" sensor item?. Grumpy | | As for connectors, I heard that wires that fit in some Bosch | distributor caps work. I have yet to verify this though. | | If I get chance, I'll check my driver circuits and post them | tomorrow. | | Orin. | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:32:00 -0800 From: Ludis Langens Subject: Re: TBI for a 3.4 V-6 crate Motor steve ravet wrote: > Are you sure about this? The 3.4 crate motor is listed in the GMPP > catalog, but last time I looked it was a replacement for carbed engines > only, presumably because it didn't include an ECM or chip. Not 100%. A few years back, a lot of Fiero people were talking about the crate 3.4 as a replacement for worn 2.8 long blocks. At the time, the buzz seemed to be that GM meant it for TBI applications. More recently, I've seen messages that the 3.4 is meant for the older carbed trucks. - -- Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 17:19:13 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices | > > or straight line driving, most drivers don't call straight | > line stuff | > > real driving, corners are where the men are seperated from the boys | > Oh really now? So, you considering holding on for dear life at 300MPH | > behind 6000HP "boy stuff"? | Either way, cars are for wankers. REAL men dress in leather | and drag their knees through the corners. Cars lean the wrong | way, unlike motorcycles. Anything that surrounds you with a | roll cage is "boy stuff" compared to throwing your bike into a | corner at 100+ mph, knee skimming over the pavement, while | you slide both tires at the same time. Just to follow in this logic: Then a real man rides his 12,000 HP, unicycle, nude......... Covered in clue musk oil,,,,,,,,,, Sneezy | > > ( ducking for cover 8)) | I'm right behind you.... :-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:36:14 -0700 From: Jason_Leone@xxx.com Subject: [OT] Tools/standards <> I have the set. They work good. The wrenches aren't the best finish, but they are strong enough to handle a lot of torque. I've tweaked on the larger wrenches with a cheater bar(the upper pipe section/handle of my 3 ton floor jack) and they can take it. As far as the actual funtionality of the metric/SAE thing...well, my car is all metric. The few times I've wrenched on SAE fasteners/nuts, they worked great. The set came in a black plastic carrying case, and was rather complete. Came w/ 15 or so open/closed end wrenches, 1/4" driver, 3/8" ratchet drive, 1/2" ratchet drive, extensions, universals, shallow and deep sockets, 3/8"-1/4" reducing adapter, and a short "wobbley" extenion. Overall, a damn good value. Sears sells the set, and also Orchard Supply Hardware (now owned by Sears). The set has a warranty, but I don't think I'll need it anytime soon. I like the fact that the sockets grip the sidewall of the nut (or bolt head), and not the corners. This helps to avoid rounding, but only if the particular socket fits well. When I wrench on important items that I can't afford to round, I use the actual SAE or metric tool for the job (i.e., I use an actual 11mm flare wrench for bleeding my brake lines, not the Metrinch 11mm-7/16" combo wrench). Oh yeah, one of the reasons that modern American cars have mixed fasteners...is because a lot of the assemblies are outsourced to the Japanese or Europeans. The big three Detroit car makers have solid partnerships with Japanese car makers. Many of the transmissions, body panels, interior moldings, and engines are built to Japanese specs (to JIS or ISO standards). So how are they married? I think GM had Toyota, Chrysler had Mitsubishi, and Ford had Mazda. Now GM has Saab, Ford has Volvo, and Chrysler has MB. VW owns the whole damn world (Audi, Seat, Skoda, Bugatti, Lambo, Bentley/Rolls Royce, Cosworth Division, etc.)!! Everyone is yankin' somebody else's chain, and slappin' high fives. Sound like NATO/UN? Jason '93 SLC (100% Metric version, made in Osnabruck, Germany...at the Karmann factory) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 17:47:20 -0400 From: "C. Brooks" Subject: Re: Men from the boys (Taken completely out of context ;) I dunno about you but if I see a bunch of men dressed in leather, on their knees, come around the corner... I'm gonna get in my car and drive the other way, holding on for dear life! LoL! But hey, if it's your thing it's your thing ;) Charles Brooks - -----Original Message----- From: Michael Kasimirsky To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 6:42 PM Subject: RE: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices >Either way, cars are for wankers. REAL men dress in leather >and drag their knees through the corners. > >Michael Kasimirsky ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 15:06:39 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices OK, sounds like an all around GREAT alternative to a spool.... Better gas mileage, almost as strong, NUTHIN's stronger than a spool... right? Where does the air go into the rear gear area, and what creates the air pressure? Some sorta pump, I assume? What all rearends is this technology built to accomodate? May it be applied to an 8 3/4 or Dana 60, or even a Ford 9 incher? Just wonderin..... Todd.... - ------ Pat Ford wrote: > > Previously, you (C. Brooks) wrote: > > That's a good question. I don't know but to put a little perspective on > > this... > > > > One of the club members has a Toyota truck with a mild 383, TH350 tranny, > > Dual Marlin crawler transfer case both with 4.7:1 gears, and Dana axles (60 > > rear, 44 front) with 5.?:1 gearing, and 36" swampers. I've seen him use > > (Abuse) this truck pretty hard. The final drive ratio in first gear low > > range is well over 200:1. That's ALOT of torque multiplication, and he's > > never had an ARB fail (YET!) > > they are strong > > > > > Having the diff locked won't make any difference in mileage. > > it does, no road is straight enough and no 2 tires are exactly the same dia. > if I lock the dif the top speed does down and the fuel just pours into the engine > > > > > Charles Brooks > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Todd....!! > > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > > Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 8:20 PM > > Subject: Re: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices > > > > > > >Can ya do a W.O.T. launch with the button OFF, then turn it on in the > > >middle of the launch, under FULL TORQUE? > > > > > >Just how strong is this unit? > > > > > >AND, would a car with one of these air posi's get better gas mileage > > >with the posi OFF than it would with the air-posi on? > > > > > >Just wondrinnnnn......... > > > > > > > > >LATER! > > > > > >Todd....!! > > > > > > > > >Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > >> > > >> > The type of posi is NOT dictated by the type of rear it's in or made > > for. There are limited slip, Torsen and locking differentials made for the > > Dana 60. If you want to know what type of unit is in the rear you'll have to > > actually look at it. > > >> > > >> And this is not a sarcastic response, either :) > > >> > > >> I'd highly recommend an ARB airlocker for this rear. direct bolt in, > > >> easy to control with a pushbutton, and totally open when needed. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> > > >> Frederic Breitwieser > > >> Bridgeport CT 06606 > > >> > > >> 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental > > >> 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy > > >> 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos > > >> 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) > > > > > > > > > > -- > Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com > QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com > (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews > (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 15:50:57 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: To Todd Well Fred, Thanks for the exact model # of the welder ya picked up, will see how much they are aroun these parts... ALSO, I don't believe EITHER of us think of our hand made cars as HOBBIES.... A HOBBY carist would 'do' a car like a Fiero body swap(re-body), or VW kit(Dune Buggy) and the like, ya know? We are not they....!! I'll most likely be using an older 70-81 Camaro for my suspension/chassis which will reduce my cost considerably.... MAY even use parts of the original body as support for the Defender 'glass .... Just yesterday evening, when I brought my wife's Stratus back to the dealer that we purchased it from so they could have it back(The wife doesn't want it anymore... A SILVER Viper GTS ACR(Racer) with 5 point harnesses and all was sittin on the showroom floor!! When lookin at it the width of the Viper isn't too far off of that of an older style Camaro.... Will verify the differences 'tween the two widths heights, and lengths for designing purposes, but they seem to be pretty close.... Rim offset can contribute to any differences.... ALSO, there's a few XJ6's in teh junk yards around here currently, may have to snag one or two of their IRS and install one in the first or second Defender just to make it look and ride like the REAL Viper... Wonder how much tehy'd take for the entire rear.... BTW, just fyi, the Jag XJ6's have a two peice driveshaft from the factory, DON'T EVER reatin the dual driveshaft when swappin in ANY kinda V-8 into the mix, the thing's center u-joint BANGS HARD up against the trans tunnel under ANY sort of over OEM accelleration and torque... It's bothersome with my 455 Buick, but it holds none the less.... Can't WAIT to F.I. and Turbo the Mopar as well! Take er easy.... LATER! Todd.... - -------- Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > That's REALLY high, in my book... and I'm SURE that YOU got GREAT deals > > on everything! > > I got a more than fair deal, however if I shopped the hell out of it, > I'm sure I could have done better. Since it was my first welder, and > my friend who welds REALLY well is 2.5 hours away, I thought buying > from a local welding supplier would be the way to go, because then > when I get into trouble with parts, dumb questions, they'd be at least > supportive, which they have been to date, and to me, its worth a few > bucks. > > > Did ya get a Lincoln, or what brand? I don't remember ya mentionin? > > Lincoln 170T, 220V welder. Its not considered a hobby welder. > > -- > > Frederic Breitwieser > Bridgeport CT 06606 > > 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental > 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy > 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos > 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 15:17:44 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Getting loans.. (WAY off topic) Will probably get a Viper and maybe a Porch 911 turbo(older model), a Ferrari, and maybe even a Lambo for the lot to draw em in... Most of em'll be kits, some'll be hand made, like the Viper(Defender) and/or GTS.... Maybe a Cobra as well.... As SOON as I get my 220 welder(Thanks for the advice on choosing a good'n Fred B.) and a HUGE Air Compressor and associated tools, i.e. die grinder, air wratchets, etc... I'll be on my way.... Actually, as soon as I get any of these things, I'll be an even happier person altogether.... Would like em all with some sorta warranty..... May not be able to afford a good warranty in the beginnin.... Thanks for the ideas/advice... Will let ya'll know how it goes, if it goes at all... Still have to talk to partner(s) about the deal, they don't even know about it current;y, and must get somethin in writing from them stating that they won't try and suck the deal out from under me.... They tend to be that way... LATER! Todd....!! xxalexx@xxx.com wrote: > > > The GREAT part is that this store is RIGHT in front of Dad's REALLY > > expensively priced subdivision.... Could sell anything from crystal to > > Rolex's to King Cobra golf clubs and the like (the subdivision has a > > REALLY nice 18 hole golf course and club n all) > > > > AND, of course, I'll just HAVE to have my Hi-Po parts section of the > > store for a few Hi-Po knick knacks, like a set or two of Indy heads, > > Brodix(for the Chev dudes), and Dart heads n the like for the Mush-tang > > dudes as well... > > > > If ya'll can think of some other things that are popular these dayzzz > > please let me know? > > > > Thanks! > > > > Todd.... > 1. High performance Electric Golf Karts. > or other fuels, maybe H2, or put a huge muffler, CAT and FI > gasoline engine in them. > Last month issue or Wired had a article on Electric Drag Racing. > 2. High performance golf balls. > there are some out there that really work. > 3. Maybe try turning classic cars. > A couple nice race cars in parking lot wiil bring people in. > I still do work for grey-market, I ended up stareing and drooling most of > the day at some Aston-Martin Lagonda's. One had a nice 8 barrel > IR weber setup, the other FI, the engine builder signs his name on > the valve cover after hand beating the aluminium body. > Alex ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 16:30:04 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Knock sensors Cool DEAL! Thanks for those sources... On my way to finishin bein an EE(Elec. Eng.) A beginners book to electronics would be a good start! LATER! Todd....!! Bruce Plecan wrote: > > | OK, > | I'm REALLY new to the termonology in these parts... > | Would op-amp and KS, and comparator be listed in the list of terms for > | this group? If not, please define? > > Operational Amplifier, an amplifier > Comparator, something that compares > KS, Knock Sensor > Radio Shack has a series of little "Mini Engineer's Notebooks" that cover > the basics in opto couplers, op-amps, comparators,555s, and they have a > beginners electronics book by Forrest Mimms III, that help. > Doc > > | Thanks! > | Todd.... > Bruce Plecan wrote: > | > Heck, they can pick up the fractured ribs in a serpentine belt. A poor > | > Alternator bearing. Timing gears might give it KS a migrane, from all > the > | > noise. > | > Next chance, I get I think I'm gonna try an op-amp, and comparator, > and > | > see what I get. > | > In my experiments with the ESC Module KS, there were slight > differences. > | > >From memory, was a max of like 4 degrees knock to 0 for a given engine. > | > Bruce > | > | Hi all, > | > | I am adapting a 730 to a Mopar RB engine and I have some questions > about > | > | Knock sensors: > | > | How sensitive are knock sensors to noise generated by gear drives? If > | > | they are affected would selection solve the problem? ( for instance a > | > | knock sensor off a factory supercharged engine) > | > | What about noise from mechanical (roller cams)? > | > | Bill Edgeworth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 15:18 From: "John Carri" Subject: metric to english conversion >what is the correct shade tree english to metric conversion? ______________________________________ There are 25.4 millimetres to an inch. Some of those inch- millimetre "equivalent" sizes listed earlier are close, but not exact: Inch size closest metric size exact metric size 7/16 11 11.1125 1/2 13 12.7 5/8 16 15.875 7/8 21 22.225 As you can see, sometimes those "equivalent" sizes are significantly off, maybe enough to round off the head of a bolt. If high torque is involved, it's probably best to stick with the correct metric or english socket. I grew up outside the US, with the metric system, and I can't believe how hard we make life for ourselves here in the USA by sticking to the English system, which even the English don't use any more! - -John Carri ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 17:11:27 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices >| > > or straight line driving, most drivers don't call straight >| > line stuff >| > > real driving, corners are where the men are seperated from the boys >| > Oh really now? So, you considering holding on for dear life at 300MPH >| > behind 6000HP "boy stuff"? >| Either way, cars are for wankers. REAL men dress in leather >| and drag their knees through the corners. Cars lean the wrong >| way, unlike motorcycles. Anything that surrounds you with a >| roll cage is "boy stuff" compared to throwing your bike into a >| corner at 100+ mph, knee skimming over the pavement, while >| you slide both tires at the same time. > >Just to follow in this logic: >Then a real man rides his 12,000 HP, unicycle, nude......... >Covered in clue musk oil,,,,,,,,,, >Sneezy > While balancing a boot full of pee (with instructions for how to empty it written on the heel) balanced on his head! Greg >| > > ( ducking for cover 8)) >| I'm right behind you.... :-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 17:13:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Orin Eman Subject: Re: looking for GM smartcoil driver circuit... > | I have been investigating these... > | You have to raise the control line over 2.7V to 'arm' the coil. > | It then fires when the control line falls below 2.5V _OR_ > | 0.1 second later, whichever comes first. > 0.1 sec later than what?. > Meaning it fires a 0.1 sec after raising to 2.7v?. Yes, 0.1 sec after raising to 2.7V. I fed it a very slow square wave connected to one channel of the 'scope and an inductive sensor on the coil wire connected to the other channel. The spark was 0.1 seconds after the control line went high. > | So, toggling between 5V and ground works fine. Input impedance is > | high, over 10k, so you don't do any harm connecting directly to 5V. > | I have driven them using an opto isolator (4N35), collector to > | 5V, emitter to resistor to coil, resistor to ground too. I also > | tried forming a darlington with the opto and a generic NPN in a > | similar config. Both methods work fine on the bench. > | Other things that I noticed were that it takes approximately > | 25 uS between grounding the control line and the spark and > | you don't get a very good spark with the control line high > | for only 1mS. > Just curious was this with a battery type power supply, or an amperage > limited test bench power supply?. Could there be a coil "charge" sensor > item?. 20 amp bench power supply, no current limit. I have yet to investigate how much current the coil takes, the power supply's meter is too slow to respond - shows 5 or 6 amps peak. Orin. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:12:52 +0000 From: xxalexx@xxx.com Subject: Re: g meter Yes, It should have been Micro Computer Journal In about the same time frame, CCI changed there colors from white to black and switched font size. Also of not issue 61 and 62 have a rare white cover with the present font size. 62 is part 1of 3 of the DIY FI injection article Alex > > Computer Application Jounal went under a few years ago > > Took over my a scam artist named Gates (not Bill) > > of Midnight Engineer fame. > > Also had a Robotics mag. > > He still ows me $100 if you find him, let me know! > > Wrong mag - > > "Circuit Cellar Ink / The Computer Applications Journal" is still > alive and well and is Steve Ciarcia's (of the early Byte "circuit cellar" > column) mag. See circuitcellar.com. This is a good mag. > > Peter > > -- > Peter Dufault (dufault@xxx.com) Realtime development, Machine control, > HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:12:51 +0000 From: xxalexx@xxx.com Subject: Re: Twin O2 sensor question I have seeen some Turbo Bentleys from HongKong that have a CAT TC but is in cat. Alex > Hello EFI, > > I am about to remove the 2 cats from my Supra twin turbo (1994) to > alleviate any restriction, but I have a question. Currently, there is > an O2 sender just after the 2 turbos join at a common outlet point, > then a pre cat, then a bit of plain pipe, with what *appears* to be a > second 02 sender, and about 2 feet further back, a second, main cat. > > Out of curiosity I removed the second 02 sensor, and it appears to be > a simple straight stick, about 3 sixteenths inch diameter, where it > enters the exhaust stream. Is it an 02 sensor, or some sort of > temperature probe? The car is a Jap import, hence Japanese spec, > slightly different to US and Europe spec Supras, in that the turbos > are smaller, have ceramic turbine wheels, and the air flow is measured > by a vane type AFM, but uses a MAP sensor. > > If I remove both cats, and make up a plain pipe section to replace > them, and re fit both (what I assume to be...) 02 sensors, how will > the ECU react??? I assume it will be happy, as it seem,s a common > enough mod. But why 2 02 sensors in the first place? > > Thanks, I'd better ask before cutting .... :-) > > -- > > Best Regards, > Chris > > mailto:chris@xxx.uk > > http://www.formula3.demon.co.uk > > Performance car sales at http://www.formula3.demon.co.uk/forsale.htm > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:12:52 +0000 From: xxalexx@xxx.com Subject: Re: Prowler V6 > The original US metric thread standard actually had a 6.3 mm thread. This > was coincidentally exactly 1/4 inch. They did it so the jump in strength > going up one size would be consistent. Needless to say this was a bad idea. > A 6.3mm nut fit perfectly on a 6mm bolt with only 1/3 the strength. > > BTW, I always wondered what the 19/32 and 23/32 Craftsman wrenches were for. > Are they collectables now? I can't wait for The Antiques Road Show to come > to town. > > Cheap Asian copys of equipment copy everything, right down to the English > threads except they can't get inch hex stock locally so they use metric. > > Gary Derian > Would be good investment, Like alot of things quality much better with age. My dad's pre wwii tools are amazing, I think I have seen 64th " sizes and they never wear out. alex ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:29:08 EDT From: AL8001@xxx.com Subject: socker sizes Was Prowler V6 First, please change the subject line when going off tangent First this was a dissusion about V6 then a Chev motor and now socket sizes. As of the socket interchange. 8 MM is 5/16 11 MM is a 7/16 Slightly worn 1/2 socket is a 13 MM 11/16 is a loose 17 MM 3/4 is a 19MM Harold In a message dated 99-06-03 09:42:35 EDT, xxalexx@xxx.com writes: >Alot of expert mechanics, say 1/2 works for 12 or 9/16 is just a 13. >alex > > > A slightly ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 17:31:30 -0700 From: Vance Rose Subject: Re: SBC V8 into Astro/Safari ? Hi Charles Would like a copy of the mounts TIA. Have an older copy of JTR book. Friend want to pep up his wife' van. Vance At 02:50 PM 6/3/1999 -0400, you wrote: >I have the JTR book. The Astro Van section is only 4 pages or so but they do >have a full scale drawing of the motor mounts you'll need to fabricate. If >you would like I can scan most of the info for ya. > >Charles Brooks > >-----Original Message----- >From: steve ravet >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> >Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 2:15 PM >Subject: Re: SBC V8 into Astro/Safari ? > > >> >> >>Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020 wrote: >>> >>> I am looking for as much info as possible on the V8 into GM minivan swap >>> >>> a number of people offered me help before but I cannot find where I saved >the >>> messages (I have about 400 MB of archived email and it grows 4-5mb / day) >>> >>> I want to retain stock computer TBI system from 1986 Safari Cargo minivan >>> >>> I need details on >>> 1. mounts, rads, waterpumps, etc for the mechanical installation >>> can I use the 4.3 flexplate I have now for the 700 AT >>> what headers work ( v8 into S10/15?) >> >>Go to www.jagsthatrun.com and get the "chevy tpi/tbi swapping book". >>It's mostly about putting EFI engines into older chevelles and the like, >>but there's a chapter on the Astro conversion. Anything you need in the >>way of mechanical information should be there. >> >>> >>> 2. chip changes in the ECU that are required to make it run and be within >>> emissions for the 1986 model year >> >>Astros came with 747 ECMs, maybe not in '86 but certainly later. Get a >>V8 747 bin from the ftp site and that should be a good starting point. >>Also a 747 ECM if you don't have one. Mike Knell (JTR guy) says it's >>best to buy a complete engine including accessories, ECM, sensors, >>harness, etc. I agree although it's probably more expensive. That way >>you minimize the number of connectors that don't fit, mystery brackets, >>etc. >> >>> >>> I should be able to use the stock TBI unit with a new cal >>> I seem to remember that I have to change an addr. in the chip to tell the >>> ECU it is now running 8 cyl instead of 6 >>> >>> any other details that could be supplied would be great >> >>Read programming 101 and tuning tips, lots of info about the 747 ECM. >> >>> >>> Thanks >>> Clive >>> >>> n >> >>-- >>Steve Ravet >>steve.ravet@xxx.com >>Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. >>www.arm.com >> > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:36:27 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: metric to english conversion But we CAN'T go metric. All the football and baseball fields would have to change. Gary Derian > >what is the correct shade tree english to metric conversion? > ______________________________________ > > There are 25.4 millimetres to an inch. Some of those inch- millimetre > "equivalent" sizes listed earlier are close, but not exact: > > Inch size closest metric size exact metric size > 7/16 11 11.1125 > 1/2 13 12.7 > 5/8 16 15.875 > 7/8 21 22.225 > > As you can see, sometimes those "equivalent" sizes are significantly > off, maybe enough to round off the head of a bolt. If high torque is > involved, it's probably best to stick with the correct metric or > english socket. > > I grew up outside the US, with the metric system, and I can't believe > how hard we make life for ourselves here in the USA by sticking to the > English system, which even the English don't use any more! > > -John Carri > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 21:00:35 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Prowler V6 Gary Derian wrote: > > > BTW, I always wondered what the 19/32 and 23/32 Craftsman wrenches were for. > Are they collectables now? I can't wait for The Antiques Road Show to come > to town. > My grandfather tells me that size wrench was used to adjust the tappets on one of his cars. Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 21:00:56 -0400 From: "Clare Snyder" Subject: Re: Prowler V6 - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, June 03, 1999 4:58 AM Subject: Re: Prowler V6 > Also what is the correct shade tree english to metric conversion? > Alot of expert mechanics, say 1/2 works for 12 or 9/16 is just a 13. > alex Nope - 1/2" is 13mm, 9/16 is 14 mm. 5/16 is awfull close to 8mm, ans 11/16 and 17mm are very close. I've worked both Metric and imperial (sae) for years - and even some Whitworth and BSF. By the way, both Whitworth and BSF wrenches are referred to by their thread size, not their AF (across flats) size. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 21:05:20 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Prowler V6 Gary Derian wrote: > > I actually had a 1968 Z-28 and it had a 6000 rpm redline. If you claim it > was 5800 or 6200 I would say OK. If you say 10,000 I say wait a minute. > > Gary Derian Ahhh well. You've just taken some of the wonder out of the legend. I still like the little mouse, though. Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 21:05:58 EDT From: AL8001@xxx.com Subject: Re: Twin O2 sensor question In a message dated 99-06-02 23:43:13 EDT, shannen@xxx.com writes: >an O2 sender just after the 2 turbos join at a common outlet point, >> then a pre cat, then a bit of plain pipe, with what *appears* to be a >> second 02 sender, and about 2 feet further back, a second, main cat. > >> It may be a exhaust over tempature sensor. These have been installed on 280Z, Rx 7 and such. Check your dash/ owners manual for a warning lamp. Harold ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:27:22 -0500 From: "G. Scott Ponton" Subject: Re: Prowler V6 Nitriding, Tufftriding and Hard Chrome are all used for the same purpose. Yes they add some minor amount of fatigue strenth but mostly they are to increase the surface hardness of the journals. A cast iron crank has nearly twice the surface hardness of forged steel. Nearly all forms of cast iron,other than some of the more exotic alloys, have a ~ .060 thick hard "layer" at the surface. I am not sure of the technical aspects that cause this to happen but it is there. The reason for using a forged crank as compared to a cast one is actually more a matter of "flexability." with a cast crank the material isn't as flexable as the forged counterpart. When you consider the abuse a crankshaft takes during engine operation, the constant twist and untwist as power pulses are applied, it becomes fairly evident why the forged steel crank tends to "live" longer. Especially when engine speed is taken above 5,000 revs I have seen many a forged crank from a heavy duty app with the main journals worn as much as 1/8 in. This wasn't caused by lack of oil pressure either as the bearings were not worn to speak of. The only journals I have ever found torn up on a cast crank have been ones that had either been turned down more than 0.60 or had been run without sufficient oil pressure. I run a cast (Nodular high nickel) crank in my Pontiac drag car. It has a 455 with 2 bolt mains and cast rods. Rev limit is set to 6,000 (hold it there for burn outs about 5 sec). Car weighs 3300 empty and runs 10.97 at 123. Put 1200 passes on the last engine before the block split nearly in half at the mains. The crank journals didn't have any damage at all other than where it broke as it came out the bottom of the engine. I have never torn up a crank since I stopped using ones that had been turned more than 0.40. Wish I could say the same about the blocks :-))) apparently they aren't strong enough to make more than 700 hp. Scott. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 21:33:46 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Prowler V6 Todd....!! wrote: > > Maybe 29 minutes isn't a long time when daily driving the sucker, but 29 > minutes at a quarter mile at a time is a LIFETIME! ey? > > LATER! > > Todd.... If it took me 29 minutes to complete the quarter, while running at a steady 10 grand, my pride and self respect would force me to give up running on the drums and at least put rims on the car. ; ) Shannen ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #333 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".