DIY_EFI Digest Saturday, June 5 1999 Volume 04 : Number 338 In this issue: Re: Metric essay Re: Prowler V6 Re: 10,000 RPM Re: Metric essay Re: Metric essay Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 Re: Non-diy_efi, dyno help Re: Metric essay Re: ARO 244's SUV's for sale Re: 10,000 RPM Re: Metric essay Re: Diagrams Subject: Diagrams Re: Non-diy_efi, dyno help Re: Metric essay Re: 10,000 RPM beginner-how to ID chips? Re: 10,000 RPM Re: 10,000 RPM Re: 10,000 RPM Re: Non-diy_efi, dyno help Re: Non-diy_efi, dyno help Re: Prowler V6 Re: Metric essay Re: Non-diy_efi, dyno help Re: beginner-how to ID chips? Re: 10,000 RPM Re: metric to english conversion Re: Metric essay Re: Metric essay Re: Metric essay Re: Metric essay Re: Metric essay See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 12:40:08 +0200 (MDT) From: Fredrik Skog Subject: Re: Metric essay On Sat, 5 Jun 1999 Regnirps@xxx.com wrote: This is really funny. Since when did you use the definition of things when you are messuring. If I'm out on a walk I surelly not count the steps I take..and I can't believe you do either. And the body measurements are unusable since noone is the same size as another. I guess they were alright a few hundreds of years ago, but in this modern world they don't mean a thing as far as precision is concerned. Being in a machine shop you measure your thumb and start folding a paper to get the 3/16th of an inch you have to cut the pipe? Give me a break. You use a ruler, right? And Fahrenheit....even the americans don't know how it works. Alot of people I have talked to on the internet don't know the exact Fahrenheit for boiling water...and I don't blame them...there are not logic whatsoever in the scale. As far as precision goes you are allowed to use like 20.5 degrees, is that too hard? And about the kilo. You americans use that all the time. In car adds it says 200k miles and I can buy it for 30k$. So I guess you know what it means. You really have to come up with alot better arguments than this. I do understand that it is very hard to change, and that it is expensive. But don't start with this human body crap it is just ridiculous. The metric system is by far the most logic and easy to use system. Just my opinion - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Student at the Department of Computing Science Umeå University Fredrik Skog E-mail: c95fsg@xxx.se Taffelstråket 51 WWW: http://www.acc.umu.se/~skog 903 53 Umeå Phone: +46-(0)90-136365 Mobile: +46-(0)70-3041729 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 06:58:46 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Prowler V6 Programmer wrote: > > Todd, > > Actually have a set of them--the box end is offset every other 12 point with > the metric equivalent. A 13-1/2, 12-7/16, etc...they actually aren't that > bad a deal--and I've never broken them. They also have socket sets. I don't > use them at the shop--but they work great at home. > > Lyndon IPTECH Yeah, but what do you do if you need a 15 mm? Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 09:12:34 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM | >Have never seen an american production V8 with titanium valves and | >retainers, triple springs, stud girdles (for you chevy guys) etc. etc. | >required for 10,000 rpm operation. | >Mega buck Nascar engines don't even like that much rpm. Maybe a couple years ago. Some of the incar footage has shown over 9K in race conditions, and I'd wager, that in qualifing, they are close if not at 10K. Grumpy | Aaron Willis ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 09:23:48 -0400 From: "C. Brooks" Subject: Re: Metric essay Thanks for forwarding that. I got a kick out of it :) And it was educational too. Charles Brooks - -----Original Message----- From: Regnirps@xxx.com> To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Saturday, June 05, 1999 6:46 AM Subject: Metric essay >I'm afraid I write this kind of stuff all the time and then don't do anteing >with it. > >Attached here is a version in an older MS RTF format (probably need to "open >as" RTF). There should be some figures. Let me know if it is readable and the >drawings are there. If not I will transfer it from my Mac to a PC where I >have the Acrobat Pro for creating acrobat docs. > >Charlie > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 09:52:21 -0400 From: "C. Brooks" Subject: Re: Metric essay If you've met an American that doesn't know that 212 deg is the bowling point of water, it's probably because he was too stupid to get on the right plane home! (Good riddance!) The point of the article was not "How to make a ruler" it was to show the original thought that went into forming the measuring system. The references are human references that people can relate to rather easily regardless of the size of their waist (I'm sure they know somebody who has a waist size that's close.) On the other hand to hear that the meter is based on the distance between the north pole and the equator stimulates no recognition whatsoever. The alternative definition of a meter (which I had to look up as I couldn't remember the exact numbers) "The length of the path traveled by light in a vacuum during a time interval of 1/299 792 458 of a second." Is no easier to relate too! The basis for the units of measure in the metric system DON'T MAKE SENSE TO AVERAGE PEOPLE. They cannot relate easily to the "Why" of the measurement. Take the gentleman you met that didn't know the boiling point of water. Do you think he could readily pace a 20 meter distance on the ground? Doubtful, he's more likely to take 20 steps and go about 18 yards. He would try to relate your request in metric units to his steps. And since it wasn't based on his steps (Or anybodyelse)... Well, I'm sure you get the point. If we considered the metric system so superior to what we already have we wouldn't have to be coerced into it's use by our own government! (Which is a whole other can of worms we don't need to get into) We don't have to come up with ANY arguments. What we have WORKS, and where it doesn't we readily adopt something that does. This doesn't mean I NEED to use metric units for everything. Charles Brooks - -----Original Message----- From: Fredrik Skog To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Saturday, June 05, 1999 10:09 AM Subject: Re: Metric essay And Fahrenheit....even the americans don't know how it works. Alot of people I have talked to on the internet don't know the exact Fahrenheit for boiling water...and I don't blame them...there are not logic whatsoever in the scale. As far as precision goes you are allowed to use like 20.5 degrees, is that too hard? And about the kilo. You americans use that all the time. In car adds it says 200k miles and I can buy it for 30k$. So I guess you know what it means. You really have to come up with alot better arguments than this. I do understand that it is very hard to change, and that it is expensive. But don't start with this human body crap it is just ridiculous. The metric system is by far the most logic and easy to use system. Just my opinion - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- Student at the Department of Computing Science Umeå University Fredrik Skog E-mail: c95fsg@xxx.se Taffelstråket 51 WWW: http://www.acc.umu.se/~skog 903 53 Umeå Phone: +46-(0)90-136365 Mobile: +46-(0)70-3041729 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 10:58:48 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 At 09:40 PM 6/4/99 -0500, you wrote: > > Calc? That was a wag.. (wild assed guess) :) Are you sure conleys 1100 >hp calc wasn't a bit skewed? (not that it matters any) His HP was from Duttweillers Dyno... I think he said they weren't sure of torque, as the torque scale on his dyno only went to 1000 and it was pegged for the whole run. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 11:02:52 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: Non-diy_efi, dyno help At 10:35 PM 6/4/99 +0000, you wrote: >Many chassis dynos only or good for road load 0-50 HP >I would get the model# and give Mustang a call. >Also alot of used dyno shops in Thomas Register, >Maybe they have something on web. >Mustang makes a lot of dyno's including motorcycle. >They are mounted on a large above ground frame. >The new chassis dynos for emissions use a single 18" roll >with AC motor. for about $0.25 million > IM240 uses 8.5" roll and AC motor. >Eddy cuurent can be used in place of AC. >Eddy current is more stable than water brake, >and is used for serious engine dyno work and certification. >Get all of the controls. Does the IM 240 dyno use a single roller? If so, how do they smog the AWD vehicles? My explorers manual states that for emissions checks, if it must be run on a dyno, a 4wd dyno is required. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 09:56:04 -0600 From: "John Carroll" Subject: Re: Metric essay The essay is wonderfully puts many of my observations into words. I went though engineering school in the last moment of slide rule usage which coincided with a really dedicated effort to convert every student to metric units. I emerged with no bias toward ether system and still flip back and forth easily. The trick is to develop a set of personal references in each system and NOT try to convert everything. The observation that binary fractions of a unit of measure are easy to use is the best demonstration of the artificialness of a decimal system. I have never seen a 1.3 mm pitch thread, but 1.25 and 1.75 pitch taps are easy to find. Metric users revert to fractions when they have a chance. Change gears for lathes do not come in decimal increments. On the other hand, I have never seen even the most dedicated American machinist insist on a microMETER indicated in 1/1024" readable to 1/4096". The process of dividing 1/12 of a foot into .001 or .0001 units seems perfectly normal. They measure long things in inches as well. The same person would be amazed if a surveyor measured his house lot in inches and fractions or decimals rather than .01 foot. It is difficult to make an argument against a unified system of measurment when information and products travel so easily. The problems with adapatation is mostly prejudice and illusion. Every day I watch machinists struggle to make sense of metric dimensions. If they would reach out and mash the button that switches their machine to metric measuring units and work for one day without converting any thing, they would have the problem licked. Europeans, Asians and Africans don't give a hoot if we produce and consume in metric units. It is simply an economic issue where a good's value is associated with it's desireability. We can produce all the yards of cloth we want but if the potential customers want meters, they will pay more for meters, other things being the same. The real tragedy is that we came so close to evolving with six fingers on each hand. We could have had a twelve based system. The base divides rationally by 1,2,3,4 and 6. The european peasants and central american indians had it right when they observed that eggs and apples fit nicely in boxes in dozens and a dozen dozen is a nice large number. Gross, acres, years, hours, minutes and miles all divide nicely by 12. We have a de facto 12 based system in some aspects of commerce. My personal vote is for a 16 based system to achieve an improvement in precision and computation speed. No more decimal adjusts and floating point precision would be more easily maintained. I wonder how long it would take us to reach a consensus on the names and shapes of the six new digits. Well, I guess we already have ten, eleven and twelve named, we only need three more. John Carroll John Carroll jcarr@xxx.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 11:51:25 +0000 From: xxalexx@xxx.com Subject: Re: ARO 244's SUV's for sale The emissions were obtained for 49 states in 95-97 and 50 states 98,99. 90% of crash data was completed. There are production problems in Romania. It was setup for the Ford 3.0 V6 Bronco engine and 5 speed by Cosworth Engineering 95-97. Mazda SUV V6 with automatic 97-99 and also some for Toyota powerplant. No fuel injection reprogramming was done. Trucks have high emission stds. and easy to pass. There are no titles, there is a chassis number. Sold as a roller, you could use offroad, farm vehicle, or a large mailbox. If still interested , I can give you a contact. Alex > > Did the company run out of $$$? If that's the Ranger engine in those > trucks, I don't see emissions being a problem. Please send me more info as > my wife thinks they are "cute". > > Brandon Shehan > > > >From: xxalexx@xxx.com > >Reply-To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > >To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > >Subject: ARO 244's SUV's for sale > >Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 17:24:43 +0000 > > > >Does any one want a new Romanian 4X4 > >set up for a Ford 3.0 V6 5spd > >or Mazda automatic for $5000? > >Have worked on these past 5 yrs. > >obtaining EPA certs. ARO know pulling > >out. 300 available. > >For kit car or offroad. > >alex > > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 09:36:21 -0700 From: Bill Edgeworth Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM > > > Maybe a couple years ago. Some of the incar footage has shown over 9K in > race conditions, and I'd wager, that in qualifing, they are close if not at > 10K. > Grumpy > > Yes, I have seen this too. I was just trying to make the point that if this is the limit for a 30 thousand dollar engine do people actually think a production engine can do the same thing? To my knowledge the 2 highest revving factory V8's were the chev 302 produced in the 69 Z-28 and the Ford Boss 302 Mustang (somebody correct me If I am wrong) And there was no way that Either could hit 10k without valve float (long before 10k) or breaking something. Bill Edgeworth ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 09:46:08 -0700 From: ".." Subject: Re: Metric essay "C. Brooks" wrote: > If you've met an American that doesn't know that 212 deg is the bowling > point of water, it's probably because he was too stupid to get on the right > plane home! (Good riddance!) Careful here, according to national statistics, 62% of recent U.S. High School Graduates do NOT know the boiling point of water in either deg.F or deg.C... Yeah, I didn't believe it either until I took an unofficial poll. While my results were much better then the national numbers, they still were appalling. Thank God my teenage daughter answered the question immediately in both scales; but, she also added that from what she saw in High School she wasn't surprised by the statistics... rap P.S. Also, and just as surprising, our kids score ALMOST the lowest in geography of all the industrialized countries; so if they did get on that plane they probably weren't sure where it was going. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 11:57:38 -0500 (CDT) From: eclark@xxx.com Subject: Re: Diagrams On Fri, 4 Jun 1999, Vance Rose wrote: > Hi All > > > Looking for a wiring diagram for a 96 Camaro. Friend of mine rope me into > helping him. The Chilton manual has a very poor wiring diagram. Any help > will be appreciated. > What is the pulse rate for the VSS in the 96 camaro? Is it 4000 or 8000 > per mile? > > Thanks Vance > Its neither, on the 94+ cars they are mesured in pulses per revolution of the output shaft. I suggest you buy a Helms manual from your local dealer or partsgm.com it will make things a lot easier. - -Eric ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 12:58:19 -0400 (EDT) From: ken mayer Subject: Subject: Diagrams > Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 19:04:59 -0700 > From: Vance Rose > > Looking for a wiring diagram for a 96 Camaro. Friend of mine rope me into > helping him. The Chilton manual has a very poor wiring diagram. Any help > will be appreciated. The factory servvice manual has the complete diagram. It's available from Helm, Inc. www.helminc.com phone 1-800-782-4356 or 1-313-865-5927 > What is the pulse rate for the VSS in the 96 camaro? Is it 4000 or 8000 > per mile? > Ken :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 12:42:13 +0000 From: xxalexx@xxx.com Subject: Re: Non-diy_efi, dyno help > Does the IM 240 dyno use a single roller? > If so, how do they smog the AWD vehicles? My explorers manual states that > for emissions checks, if it must be run on a dyno, a 4wd dyno is required. What I mean by 2 roll dyno is 2 rollers for rear wheel. I am not recall how the IM240 will handle this. I have disconnected drive shaft or raised front end. Also of interest to differential thread, I have engaged some AWD vehicles(Galanda? Wagon and Alfa 164) on the dyno at around 50mph. Alot of screeching. Alex ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 09:55:49 -0700 From: Bill Edgeworth Subject: Re: Metric essay > > > You really have to come up with alot better arguments than this. > I do understand that it is very hard to change, and that it is expensive. > But don't start with this human body crap it is just ridiculous. > > The metric system is by far the most logic and easy to use system. > I would agree I just wont state it quite so strongly. I have some experience in this matter. I grew up in Canada and was a teenager when Canada went to the metric system (si) the first year was painful, but was very easy to work with in day to day life and at work after learning the system. And is not hard to relate things to example 1liter of water weighs about 1 kg and it occupies an area 10 cm x 10 cm x 10 cm. I now live in the USA and am quite surprised by the difficulty people have with the system. Hard to teach an old dog new tricks! From what I know of recent US history on this subject the US was going to go metric until the government realized the cost of changing many millions of road signs. Bill Edgeworth ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 13:33:43 -0400 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM Well, the name says Stock Car , just being silly here.. Saw one of Mark Martin's engines, some time ago, was like looking at a Rolex in a sea of Seikos. Really nice attention to detail. Grumpy | > Maybe a couple years ago. Some of the incar footage has shown over 9K in | > race conditions, and I'd wager, that in qualifing, they are close if not at | > 10K. | > Grumpy | Yes, I have seen this too. I was just trying to make the point that if this is | the limit for a 30 thousand dollar engine do people actually think a production | engine can do the same thing? | To my knowledge the 2 highest revving factory V8's were the chev 302 produced | in the 69 Z-28 and the Ford Boss 302 Mustang (somebody correct me If I am | wrong) | And there was no way that Either could hit 10k without valve float (long before | 10k) or breaking something. | Bill Edgeworth ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 12:49:49 -0500 From: greg kring Subject: beginner-how to ID chips? Just learning about chip programming. Got all the hardware, all the software, just need the knowledge. Trying to just play around by copying files from one chip to another. How do I identify a EPROM to use the correct programming algorythms? So far I am playing with used OEM general motors stuff from the 1227748 ECM. All the chips are marked Delco along with bunch of numbers. Where do I go from here? greg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 13:28:56 -0500 From: Steve Gorkowski Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM The Fords have to be near 9k to produce the power needed for Yates heads. For Nascar short track cars 7.5k is getting very common on Fords and Chevy . Steve Bruce Plecan wrote: > | >Have never seen an american production V8 with titanium valves and > | >retainers, triple springs, stud girdles (for you chevy guys) etc. etc. > | >required for 10,000 rpm operation. > | >Mega buck Nascar engines don't even like that much rpm. > > Maybe a couple years ago. Some of the incar footage has shown over 9K in > race conditions, and I'd wager, that in qualifing, they are close if not at > 10K. > Grumpy > > | Aaron Willis ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 13:45:01 -0500 From: Steve Gorkowski Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM You need to look at the Ford 4.6 squad car engine . Very high rev. engine at least 7000 RPM . How do I know is? A map sensor went out of cal. leaned out engine and melted piston and other parts. The data was stored in the cars EFI memory. Steve Bill Edgeworth wrote: > > > > > > Maybe a couple years ago. Some of the incar footage has shown over 9K in > > race conditions, and I'd wager, that in qualifing, they are close if not at > > 10K. > > Grumpy > > > > > > Yes, I have seen this too. I was just trying to make the point that if this is > the limit for a 30 thousand dollar engine do people actually think a production > engine can do the same thing? > To my knowledge the 2 highest revving factory V8's were the chev 302 produced > in the 69 Z-28 and the Ford Boss 302 Mustang (somebody correct me If I am > wrong) > And there was no way that Either could hit 10k without valve float (long before > 10k) or breaking something. > > Bill Edgeworth ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 13:51:03 -0500 From: Steve Gorkowski Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM Bruce: Going to Nascar race in Michigan this next weekend need a Nascar CSH ? Steve Bruce Plecan wrote: > Well, the name says Stock Car , just being silly here.. > Saw one of Mark Martin's engines, some time ago, was like looking at a Rolex > in a sea of Seikos. Really nice attention to detail. > Grumpy > > | > Maybe a couple years ago. Some of the incar footage has shown over 9K > in > | > race conditions, and I'd wager, that in qualifing, they are close if not > at > | > 10K. > | > Grumpy > | Yes, I have seen this too. I was just trying to make the point that if > this is > | the limit for a 30 thousand dollar engine do people actually think a > production > | engine can do the same thing? > | To my knowledge the 2 highest revving factory V8's were the chev 302 > produced > | in the 69 Z-28 and the Ford Boss 302 Mustang (somebody correct me If I am > | wrong) > | And there was no way that Either could hit 10k without valve float (long > before > | 10k) or breaking something. > | Bill Edgeworth ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 14:39:43 -0400 From: "Clare Snyder" Subject: Re: Non-diy_efi, dyno help - ----- Original Message ----- From: David A. Cooley To: Sent: Saturday, June 05, 1999 11:02 AM Subject: Re: Non-diy_efi, dyno help > Does the IM 240 dyno use a single roller? > If so, how do they smog the AWD vehicles? My explorers manual states that > for emissions checks, if it must be run on a dyno, a 4wd dyno is required. In the Ontario "drive clean" program 4wd and AWD units get a two speed idle test - no dyno for now. > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! > =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 13:01:06 -0600 From: "Programmer" Subject: Re: Non-diy_efi, dyno help Bruce, You lucky dog ...I've got an eddy brake current type with inertia flywheel built by MAHA in Germany. The brake applies the load 'electrically', and the resultant torque is measured and HP is calculated with engine RPM input. Mine is a 500HP at the rear wheel machine... Lyndon IPTECH - -----Original Message----- From: brucep@xxx.net> To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Friday, June 04, 1999 9:06 PM Subject: Non-diy_efi, dyno help >This is a "you won't beleive it least you see it story" I was walking >through the "junk yard" today looking for some ignition parts for my pulling >tractor's ignition and I walked past this piece of equipment that looked >like a chasis dyno. Upon closer inspection I see it is a Mustang dyno and it >looks brand new. (told ya u wouldn't beleive it and I swaer this is for >real) I ran to the office and asked whats up with the dyno, I was told they >are scrapping it. It is removed from an auto testing facility that that >won't be used. I'm sure the guys in this junk yard haven't a clue what they >actually have. > >My question is this can the eddy current unit from this dyno be used to make >a motor dyno? I can't beleive the sensors and parts that are just sitting >there. I am currently building a small waterbrake for testing engines up to >100hp. The eddy current and sensors can probably be bought off this "junk >dyno" for next to nothing. The junk yard is only interested in the value for >scrap thats all. > >How does an eddy current dyno work? Does it work on variable voltage >applied? What controls should I look for to salvage? I'm going to head back >to this yard tomorrow and do some dealing and see what I can work out with >the owner. I was also told an additional part is coming in, I kinda figured >it would be the control unit. I figured the knowledge base of this group >would be able to help me save some this dyno from the scrap heap!! > >Thanks in advance. . . > >Bruce > >PS told ya this was hard to beleive :) > > There are those that have, and those that will . . . > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 13:04:43 -0600 From: "Programmer" Subject: Re: Prowler V6 If I need a 15mm--the 9/16-15mm works. Lyndon. - -----Original Message----- From: Shannen Durphey To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Saturday, June 05, 1999 7:00 AM Subject: Re: Prowler V6 >Programmer wrote: >> >> Todd, >> >> Actually have a set of them--the box end is offset every other 12 point with >> the metric equivalent. A 13-1/2, 12-7/16, etc...they actually aren't that >> bad a deal--and I've never broken them. They also have socket sets. I don't >> use them at the shop--but they work great at home. >> >> Lyndon IPTECH >Yeah, but what do you do if you need a 15 mm? >Shannen > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 12:38:34 -0700 From: Aaron Willis Subject: Re: Metric essay At 09:55 AM 6/5/99 -0700, you wrote: . >And is not hard to relate things to example 1liter of water weighs about 1 kg >and it occupies an area 10 cm x 10 cm x 10 cm. Actually a liter of water weighs EXACTLY one kg...one of the nicer things about the metric system. One cc of water weighs one gram, etc... Aaron Willis ICQ #27386985 AOL IM: hemiyota http://surf.to/garage-te51 Garage TE51 International ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 12:41:17 -0700 From: Aaron Willis Subject: Re: Non-diy_efi, dyno help At 12:42 PM 6/5/99 +0000, you wrote: >> Does the IM 240 dyno use a single roller? >> If so, how do they smog the AWD vehicles? My explorers manual states that >> for emissions checks, if it must be run on a dyno, a 4wd dyno is required. >What I mean by 2 roll dyno is 2 rollers for rear wheel. >I am not recall how the IM240 will handle this. >I have disconnected drive shaft or raised front end. >Also of interest to differential thread, I have engaged some AWD >vehicles(Galanda? Wagon and Alfa 164) on the dyno at around 50mph. >Alot of screeching. >Alex > FWIW, Toyota Celica All-Tracs have a small lever on the trans that reduces it to 2WD (I *assume* front) for dyno testing. Not sure if this is just for emissions or if the unit is strong enough in that configuration for reliable performance measurements. Aaron Willis ICQ #27386985 AOL IM: hemiyota http://surf.to/garage-te51 Garage TE51 International ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 16:34:21 -0700 From: rr Subject: Re: beginner-how to ID chips? Most commercial programmers can read the chip id from the chip itself. If you can't do that, I'd try the NS fast algo first. I've had good luck with that one. Other than that, always start with the lowest prg volts algo, and try em until one works. BobR. greg kring wrote: > > Just learning about chip programming. Got all the hardware, all the > software, just need the knowledge. Trying to just play around by copying > files from one chip to another. How do I identify a EPROM to use the > correct programming algorythms? So far I am playing with used OEM > general motors stuff from the 1227748 ECM. All the chips are marked > Delco along with bunch of numbers. Where do I go from here? > greg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 16:29:07 +0000 From: xxalexx@xxx.com Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM > > Maybe a couple years ago. Some of the incar footage has shown over 9K in > > race conditions, and I'd wager, that in qualifing, they are close if not at > > 10K. > > Grumpy > > > > > > Yes, I have seen this too. I was just trying to make the point that if this is > the limit for a 30 thousand dollar engine do people actually think a production > engine can do the same thing? > To my knowledge the 2 highest revving factory V8's were the chev 302 produced > in the 69 Z-28 and the Ford Boss 302 Mustang (somebody correct me If I am > wrong) > And there was no way that Either could hit 10k without valve float (long before > 10k) or breaking something. > > Bill Edgeworth > Maybe Ferrari 308 and other xx8 ? but these not pushrod. Balance helps alot, I had Truimph with 820cc Routt's jugs and Sifton valve train using factory aluminium rods and ball bearing crank. I gave all parts that moved to a engine balancer (Shreeve Automotive Keener,La) , did not have a tach but ran very smooth within a very limited high RPM range and shook to pieces at all other speeds. alex ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:27:33 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: metric to english conversion Politics is one thing but really, any system of measurement works fine as long as everyone is using it. My biggest problem with the customary system we use is goofy things like tablespoons and fluid ounces. When mixing weed killer the instructions say two tablespoons per gallon, but I my measuring cup is in ounces. Now was that 2 tbs per oz or 2 oz per tbs? If everything was liters and milliliters this situation would be very easy. NPT and SAE are just fine but I dislike the mix of metric and non metric. Gary Derian > > Given all of the bureaucratic nonsense that ISO has come up with, I'm just > as glad for us to have a system of units that is insulated from idiotic > French bureaucracy and "world" politics!! IMO , USS, SAE, and NPT thread > standards are generally better designs that ALL of the various DIN, JIS, > French, and Italian metric thread junk. Also, the inch (and both numerical > and decimal fractions thereof) are VERY much more practical scale units for > machine work and tolerancing than mms. ever will be, thank you very much. > > Regards, Greg > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 15:28:30 -0700 From: Bill Edgeworth Subject: Re: Metric essay Sorry to be so picky but: EXACTLY is a dangerous word. The density of all materials is temperature dependent gases, liquids and solids. Aaron Willis wrote: > At 09:55 AM 6/5/99 -0700, you wrote: > . > >And is not hard to relate things to example 1liter of water weighs about 1 kg > >and it occupies an area 10 cm x 10 cm x 10 cm. > > Actually a liter of water weighs EXACTLY one kg...one of the nicer things > about the metric system. One cc of water weighs one gram, etc... > > Aaron Willis > ICQ #27386985 > AOL IM: hemiyota > http://surf.to/garage-te51 Garage TE51 International ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 16:36:37 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Metric essay > >The real tragedy is that we came so close to evolving with six >fingers on each hand. We could have had a twelve based >system. The base divides rationally by 1,2,3,4 and 6. The >european peasants and central american indians had it right >when they observed that eggs and apples fit nicely in boxes in >dozens and a dozen dozen is a nice large number. Gross, >acres, years, hours, minutes and miles all divide nicely by 12. >We have a de facto 12 based system in some aspects of >commerce. > >My personal vote is for a 16 based system to achieve an >improvement in precision and computation speed. No more >decimal adjusts and floating point precision would be more >easily maintained. I wonder how long it would take us to reach a >consensus on the names and shapes of the six new digits. >Well, I guess we already have ten, eleven and twelve named, >we only need three more. > Right on!! A twelve based counting system would be VASTLY superior to 10 based, then base a new system of units on the inch and foot, and base the entire system on exponents of twelve. All we would need would be two new number characters! Sixteen would be nice for computers, but maybe some other really good use for the other four bits could be standardized (such as : +, -, & a two digit (base twelve) exponent???)---it's not as though computers are capacity challenged anymore! EFI content--Twelve cylinder engines are very nice indeed, and have perfect primary AND secondary balance, as well as being rather easy to build proper headers & intakes for! They can also be plumbed for two, three, four, or six turbos!! Greg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:01:38 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Metric essay >> >> >> You really have to come up with alot better arguments than this. >> I do understand that it is very hard to change, and that it is expensive. >> But don't start with this human body crap it is just ridiculous. >> >> The metric system is by far the most logic and easy to use system. >> > >I would agree I just wont state it quite so strongly. >I have some experience in this matter. I grew up in Canada and was a teenager >when Canada went to the metric system (si) the first year was painful, but was >very easy to work with in day to day life and at work after learning the >system. >And is not hard to relate things to example 1liter of water weighs about 1 kg >and it occupies an area 10 cm x 10 cm x 10 cm. >I now live in the USA and am quite surprised by the difficulty people have with >the system. Hard to teach an old dog new tricks! >>From what I know of recent US history on this subject the US was going to go >metric until the government realized the cost of changing many millions of road >signs. I have no problem with the metric system as originally conceived by Napoleon. It is the constant tinkering and new units and "systems of units" which are produced by a flock of professors and French (ISO) bureaucrats that I mind. I have dealt with at least four utterly different versions of the "metric system" since high school. Remember "mks" and cgs" ??? A system of units should be a constant--mostly in the interests of quality control and clear, uncluttered technical thinking. I prefer the American-English system because it has been very constant for quite some time. The academics and bureaucrats have their plaything, I have something that works, and which is allowed to stay the same because the pedantic tinkerers leave it alone in their disdain. No problem learning to relate to the units--been there, done that! Just see no good reason to have to shovel through a fresh pile of manure, as generated by a herd of overeducated idiots, every few years! Set off a tactical nuke under ISO, and the metric system might turn into a pretty decent system of weights and measures! But--I STILL think that a twelve based system of units, including numbers, would be better, and FAR more efficient! Greg > >Bill Edgeworth ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:04:14 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Metric essay >"C. Brooks" wrote: > >> If you've met an American that doesn't know that 212 deg is the bowling >> point of water, it's probably because he was too stupid to get on the right >> plane home! (Good riddance!) > >Careful here, according to national statistics, 62% of recent U.S. High School >Graduates do NOT know the boiling point of water in either deg.F or deg.C... >Yeah, I didn't believe it either until I took an unofficial poll. While my >results were much better then the national numbers, they still were appalling. >Thank God my teenage daughter answered the question immediately in both scales; >but, she also added that from what she saw in High School she wasn't surprised >by the statistics... >rap Now--let's try extending that survey to see what percentage of NEA members don't know the answer! Greg > >P.S. Also, and just as surprising, our kids score ALMOST the lowest in >geography >of all the industrialized countries; so if they did get on that plane they >probably weren't sure where it was going. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:11:57 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Metric essay >At 09:55 AM 6/5/99 -0700, you wrote: >. >>And is not hard to relate things to example 1liter of water weighs about 1 kg >>and it occupies an area 10 cm x 10 cm x 10 cm. > > Actually a liter of water weighs EXACTLY one kg...one of the nicer things >about the metric system. One cc of water weighs one gram, etc... Not any more!! Greg > > > > Aaron Willis > ICQ #27386985 > AOL IM: hemiyota > http://surf.to/garage-te51 Garage TE51 International ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #338 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. 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